Absolutely! Those heartbreaking losses will start to fall Utah's way. The
team is getting better each year.
Nope we aren't. A couple years ago we could not have beaten Stanford and
taken ranked ucla, asu, and Oregon state down to the last play. In
our Mwc days we got decent mwc recruits, and often we lost in recruiting to
other local program. Since our PAC 12 invite we have had a better average star
recruiting class every year than every other local program. Our 3.0 average star
recruiting last 4 years is a definite step up. Just for comparisons, byu has
averaged 2.6 and usu 2.1 in those same 4 years. Again for comparison, alabama
has a 3.7. Its no coincidence they have been one of the best and have among
highest stars. Stars matter. With that said, we
aren't playing 2.6 star teams in PAC 12 play. But considering
guys redshirt and go on missions, our seniors are still a lot of Mwc recruits.
A 3.0 is good enough for 7th in the PAC 12 last 4 years. And I think we will be a middle PAC 12 team very soon, and that will be a
great featThe future is bright for the PAC 12 utes
Can I get an amen brother testify.
Chris, stop saying "we." You are not included in the team's
successes or failures whatsoever.
Stgslc, you couldn't be more wrong. I haven't missed a home game in 5
years. I have been to numerous away games. I went to the sugar bowl. I graduated
from the university. I buy new ute gear every year. I went crazy when we earned
a pac 12 invite. I scream during the games an love when we win and hate when we
lose. I love taking to the players and coaches at events, games, on campus. I
donate to the university and the athletic department. If you or any
fan doesn't feel a part of the team and program, I suggest you join us!
Because yes, we are included. I am with Chris on this one. I am sorry you
don't feel included in the program.
cbGood luck selling top recruits on the excitement of playing in the
couch potato bowl every year.
Chris B, You are always talking about average number of stars, but you
aren't getting the top line stars and until you do, you will not be
competitive. Even though your average star rating may be higher than
byu's, byu is getting more 4 star recruits. What that translates to is
more overall depth for Utah and that is helpful, but you need top of the line
recruits to really compete with the big boys in college football on a week to
week basis. That is exactly why Utah will never be relevant in the pac12. Yes,
you are getting more money, but you will not overtake the other teams. How many
conference football championships have Arizona and Arizona State won in the last
35-40 years since joining the conference, and they are warm weather spots with
some great advantages in recruiting. It is just the way it is. Utah realizes
this and this is why they don't want to play Byu and Utah state each year,
they want to face an easier team to pad their schedule with more wins and
hopefully go 6 and 6 and get to some bowl games.
Now that the Utes are in the PAC 12 those they recruit are noticed by the other
teams who then compete more heavily with them for talent that may have slipped
through the cracks and into the Ute camp in the past.
And, Chris B, before you spout about how anyone would rather be in the
Pac12...You are wrong. I for one, and I know many others, who would not rather
be there. I am so glad we did not fall for the Big 12 or Big East and stuck
with our guns. It all depends on what you want and want you value. If you want
that big conference money, great, then you are where you want to be. BYU does
not need that and they have a more important mission. So just be glad that both
BYU and Utah are happy where they are. I personally would rather be going to
bowl games each year than be the punching bag for others in a major conference.
You don't mind that and that is okay. Different strokes for different
folks. I am glad Utah fans are happy about being the Pac12, I hope they
continue to be if they continue to struggle because I suspect they will struggle
for quite some time. But I really mean it, I am glad they like where they are.
I could not be more pleased about where BYU is right now.
The losses to Oregon State, UCLA, and AZ State were heartbreaking. However, four
wins were by 7 or less points. It could have been a lot worse. Those
interceptions from tipped passes were heartbreaking. However, some of those tips
were from Utah's own players. In the end, the season averaged
out to be what it should be. Not contenders yet, but not too far either.
"A couple years ago we could not have beaten Stanford and taken ranked ucla,
asu, and Oregon state down to the last play. "You suffer from
the same logical deficiency as Sorenson."Against Oregon State,
UCLA and Arizona, the Utes led in the fourth quarter before losing in the final
minutes. And they nearly came back to beat Washington State.""A couple years ago" ASU, UCLA, Arizona and Wazzu were all somewhere
between less-than-mediocre and lousy, but they hired better coaches and they
improved. "A couple years ago," Utah BEAT those teams (and Oregon
State). (Take off your selective-memory hat, Chris and think hard). I used to
think Whitt would be the determining factor in the Utes' success. Turns
out it could be he is the determining factor, in the other direction: 4
OC's in the last four years, worse record each year, losing to teams the
Utes used to beat.
Rose bowl,And yet last year after Utah went bowl less Utah STILL
beat byu in head to head AND average star recruiting. So even
without going to a bowl, recruits are apparently picking Utah over byu. At least
the better recruits are doing that.
Byu9293,I'm not sure your claims of more 4 stars is accurate,
but even if it is, it's a difference of 2 four stars vs 1 four star And again even if its true, that means byu is getting more 1 star kids
than Utah if byu has a worse average star rating. Spin it all you
want, Utah is getting better recruits. And in case you are tempted
to use the reply of "then why is Utah losing?"Answer: we
aren't playing 2.6 star teams in the PAC 12
Wow, next year's pre season's hype is starting already. Next it will
be BYU. Both programs are BORING and PREDICTABLE. It's a wonder anyone is
interested in them at all.
Ken, being supportive and having pride in one's team is all well and good,
and I'm right there with you on that. I actually worked in the program
while in school and had great experiences and built great relationships with
some fantastic athletes. But I never tried to take credit for what the 105 guys
practicing every week and the 40 or 50 guys on the field on Saturday
accomplished. To me, that's almost as disrespectful to the players as the
trolls that come here to try and tear them down for their shortcomings.
Utah isn't "that far away," Mr. Sorenson? Really?Consider:Utah had 7 conference wins at the start of the season. They
now have 9, one coming against the last place team in their division. It will
take 4 (yes, FOUR) seasons to accumulate 10 conference wins. (The other was
proven to be a fluke.)This team looks a lot like the team that lost
to UNLV 0 - 27 a few years ago and flubbed getting to the first PAC 12
Championship Game when they couldn't beat the worst road team in America at
home with Norm Chow as the OC. But that year they had more wins than this
year.They are a "few years" from going to the Rose Bowl?
Really?Consider:Arizona has been in the PAC "Conference of
Champions" for decades and has NEVER been to a Rose Bowl. In fact, of the
12 teams in the conference 9 (yes, NINE) of them are bowl eligible this year.
The three that's aren't include California, Colorado and Utah. This
is Utah's 2nd year in a row without going bowling. Why will that suddenly
change? Is it because "Utah is better than last year?" Apparently the
other teams are as well.
And so it begins. Utah is already talking about how great they will be next
year. It seems I have heard this the past three years and look how it turned
out. I predict a 4-8 or 5-7 season at best next year. With Erickson moving on
to a more successful team and the rest of Whit's staff being fired they
will be rebuilding, again.Sorry CB for the bad news but you should
be used to it by now.
2004. Undefeated. The first BCS busters. Winning the Fiesta Bowl. As my
family and I left the stadium I thought, "I have just seen the pinnacle of
Utah football." I never thought Utah would top that. 2008.
Undefeated. Beating Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. This topped the 2004 year;
however, I no longer thought Utah could not someday top this.2010 Joined
the PAC-12. Achievement of goals I never imagined possible.Does
2013 rival these moments. No; however, the year was unlike any before.Never has a Utah team played a schedule ranked so high in difficulty. The
latest AP poll lists Utah having played the number 7 team ( Utah won), the
number 11 team (1 pt loss), the number 12 team (23 point loss) and the number
17 (7 point loss).In addition to these teams 5 other opponents at some
time was either listed in the weekly AP poll or was shown to have received
votes. So many games were so close and this with so many key players
suffering season ending or missed game injuries . In my mind, this
season was one of the most enjoyable ever. And I thank the team!
I've said it before. I'll say it again. The PAC-12 has been a
disaster for the Utes. They are in completely over their heads!
Mike Sorenson is clearly wrong. The Utes are exactly "that far" from
contending. Always were; always will be.
I agree with the assessment with one (notable) exception. The offensive line
play must improve dramatically. With all the talk about how improved the OL
play was going to be, it by in large did not materialize.
Utah is the best college football team in Utah and ColoradoOutside
of those two states? Well...
This is the third time I've commented on a Utah article. Utah will be
bowling some years, but the recruiting advantages USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon,
ASU have will preclude much success. And Utah is surprisingly bad in Olympic
sports. But Utah should be competitive with AZ, Cal, WSU, and OSU
must years.Washington is a puzzle; they have a good history, but
have been poor lately. Hopefully, Sarkesian can bring them back.In
short, neither Utah or Colorado is likely to have much success in the PAC-12. It
is just unrealistic to think that Utah can be in the running for the Rose Bowl
every year. Set your sights on a bowl game (New Mexico, Las Vegas, whatever).
Once in a generation Utah will play for the championship, but they have to beat
USC, ASU, and UCLA to get there. That will require down years for all three of
those teams.Not very likely.
Overall we showed improvement from last year, it just didn't equate to
wins. This season was as frustrating, losing in the final minutes in 4 games,
as it was disappointing. After beating Stanford at 4-2, I thought
at worst we would go 2-4 the second half of the season. But lack of
depth at QB and no identity in the running game was just not good enough in the
PAC 12. The defense kept us in the game against @UA, @USC, ASU and it fell
apart @WSU. At the end, we just couldn’t put a complete game togather.
BYU9293,You said, "I am so glad we did not fall for the Big 12
or Big East and stuck with our guns." Remember, the Big 12 did not offer
BYU membership.I always knew that the Pac 10 was a tougher
conference than the MWC, and the WAC before it. But Utah's experiences the
past three years have just illustrated how wide the gap between the conferences
really is. And don't kid yourself, BYU wouldn't have fared any better
than Utah if they were in the same circumstances.Since leaving the
MWC, Utah went 7-1 against non-BCS teams, 11-18 against BCS teams, and 3-0
against BYU. Meanwhile, BYU is 20-2 against non-BCS teams, 6-10 against BCS
teams, and 0-3 against Utah.While I certainly wish Utah had more
wins, I love that they are regularly competing against top flight opponents.
I'm glad that you are happy with BYU's independent status.
But what it amounts to is better television coverage of the same old BYU
formula - padding the win column by playing lesser opponents.If you
prefer being the big fish in a small pond, then you're rooting for the
Let’s take a look at our season. We had five wins and seven losses. If we drop our worst loss, the Oregon game that we would all like to forget,
and our largest win, the Weber State game, well it was against Weber State, it
would leave us 4 and 6. Bottom line is that we lost those 6 games by an
average of only 8 points. On the other hand, we only won the other four by an
average of 6 points. It is true that we could have had a better season without
some injuries and if some plays would have gone our way but it also could have
been lot worse.
byu92,"byu is getting more 4 star recruits. but you need top of
the line recruits to really compete with the big boys in college football on a
week to week basis"Such a simple plan. It clearly is working out
well for the cougars as they are able to compete with the big boys on a weekly
basis. Middle Tennessee State, Idaho State, New Mexico State, San Jose State and
Delusional State all succumbed easily to the 4 star recruits byu put on the
field against them "on a week to week basis".
Washington State went to multiple Rose Bowls under Mike Price, and they are in
the middle of nowhere, so it can be done. Of course, Price had a system people
WANTED to play in. What IS Whitt's system? Why would someone want to play
in it more than others?
Whenever my Utah friends talk about Uah "dominating" BYU in the
Bronco/Kyle era, I point out that a 6-3 record for Utah, with most of the games
(with a glaring exception) coming down to the final series, I typically get the
response of "oh, come on, score doesn't matter -- it's wins and
losses, baby!" So I find it pretty amusing this season that ute fans are
desperately clinging to relevance by chirping, "but we were close in almost
every game!" Oh wait, score DOES matter??? Man, you guys are confusing
Down Under,Your analysis of the Utes for next year may be accurate,
but what will certainly happen in 2014 for the cougars is they will end up 8-4
by playing 4 sure win teams, 4 lower tier teams, and four teams in the upper
tiers of their BCS conferences, or someone like ND.Then at the end
of the year, the coug nation will proudly proclaim they are relevant in the
national scene and should be considered for a BCS bowl based on the
"sterling" record they've produced year after year.
Utah played a pretty solid schedule this year, which was probably the fifth most
difficult schedule in the PAC 12. Cal played the most difficult schedule
followed by Arizona State, USC and Stanford. Until Utah played Colorado this
weekend, they played the second toughest schedule after Cal. Three of those
teams played Notre Dame. Arizona State also played Wisconsin. Cal, poor Cal
played Ohio State.Utah competed. They were fun to watch. They will
be fun to watch next year save the first game against Idaho State.
It's Colorado, and Utah which has allowed the PAC 12 to have nine teams
going to bowl games.Utah, and Colorado padded the the others with
the wins needed to be bowl eligible.IMO, that's why BYU
wasn't invited. They would win more conference games than either Colorado,
or Utah.Smart decision by the conference, but I'd rather have
BYU independent. I enjoy catching every game on TV, and seeing a variety of
teams.Too each his own.
I agree that BYU fans have nothing to say here since their team continually
plays their worst, most timid game against the Utes.But to say that
Utah is getting better is simply ridiculous.
Cougs, I'm glad you feel better about yourselves after tearing down your
rival up north. If you are happy with your status, your competition, your 8-4
record, your bowl, and your results on the field, I'm happy for you.You can bag on Utah, mock the move to the PAC 12, say we will never have
a chance to win a conference championship, blah, blah, blah. I love
the challenge of a difficult league. Utah is getting better, as evidenced by the
fact that they won 4 straight over BYU and beat a very good Stanford team. Read
postgame comments by ASU coach Graham. He said the Utes played them tougher
than anybody. Cougar fans, you wouldn't give up your NC 29
years ago for any bowl game, conference championship, or anything else. We won't give up the chase for the Rose Bowl, and along the way
will have some very fun seasons and go bowling many seasons. It makes little
sense why that is so intolerable to most of you that you look for every
opportunity to pounce on Utah on these threads.Take a run, some
valium, or something to calm your angry selves.
Utes aren't that far from contending’Is that a glass half
full comment?Maybe they are not that far from collapse then.
Worf,I know that your claim that BYU would win more games than Utah
in the Pac 12 is popular among the BYU faithful, but what evidence do you have
to support it?Please check the win-loss records of Utah and BYU (I
listed them in an earlier post) since leaving the MWC. You can read how I
interpret the data. What's your interpretation?
USA Lover, the record clearly is not getting better, but I think I trust Coach
Whittingham's analysis over an armchair QB, with all due respect, that the
play on the field is improving. This was the deepest PAC 12 since Utah joined,
as evidenced by most every major media group saying the PAC 12 was #2 behind the
SEC as a power conference. Their lack of depth, particulary at the QB and DB
positions killed them in the second half of the season, but there were some
improvements this year.Worf, not sure where the logic comes from
that BYU would be more competitive in the PAC 12 when the Cougs are losing to
Utah. Team speed kills, so BYU's lack of team speed would be exposed beyond
all recognition in the PAC 12. The front 7 of BYU would be solid, but their
DB's would not fare well against the speed of the PAC 12.
KimmyPAt the end of 2004 and 2008, Ute nation proudly proclaimed
they were relevant in the national scene and should be considered for a BCS
bowl, yet:2004 - Utah played the 67th SOS, only 3 regular season
opponents with winning records, all with 7-5 records, and only 1 opponent from a
decent conference with a winning record2008 - Utah played the 56th
SOS, only 1 regular season win versus an opponent from a decent conference with
a winning recordAccording to the new Utah fan narrative, Utah's
entire football history is built on a slate of mediocrity in a terrible
conference.Take off those crimson-colored, BYU-hating goggles
already. BYU played the 32nd toughest schedule in 2013, tougher by almost 10
places than Utah's toughest schedule EVER, 41st, prior to 2013.
ThomasJeffersonWELLSVILLE, UTUsing the "logic" of the
article, BYU was near a championship in football. They were, "oh so
close!" Please! BYU was nowhere closer to ANOTHER Championship as Utah is to
competing the the PAC 12.Keep hoping, ThomasJefferson. You people
are sounding more desperate to be relevant all the time. worfIMO, that's why BYU wasn't invited. They would win more conference
games than either Colorado, or Utah.Please tell this board, worf,
that you are being tongue-in-cheek, here. Surely there was a glint in your eye
and smile on your face as you wrote this...a proclamation that is both
uninformed and will NEVER be proven.
@ worf ..."that's why BYU wasn't invited. They would win more
conference games than either Colorado, or Utah"Which makes
complete since given that BYU can beat Utah. What 0-4 against Utah says worf is
that BYU would struggle just as much, if not more, than the Utes have in the
USAToday Re-ranks the teams from 1-125#34 BYU (8-4)#48 USU
(8-4)#76 Utah (5-7)
Another "moral victory" story for the Utes. How nice.Also,
yet another online moniker for Chris b. This time its Ken. After each new name
runs the coarse in credibility and silly statements, he just starts all over
again with another one. Any new guarantees that we can take to the bank this
week, Chris... ummm, I mean Ken?Some point blank honesty, Chris... I
know of a number of people who have quit being Ute fans because of you. I
don't know of any whosoever who have become Ute fans because of you.
Obnoxiousness and broken promises have that kind of effect on people. When BYU comes close to beating the Utes, it doesn't matter. We're
told it's all about wins and loses. Period.But now many Ute fans are
apparently taking solace in coming ever so close, but still losing. Interesting.
But also hypocritical. I'm glad Utah beat Colorado to keep
from finishing in the very bottom of the conference basement. But in all
likelihood, the football players (doesn't include you, Chris... or Ken)
would've rather played in a bowl game. Any bowl game beats sitting home on
DraperUteFan"...not sure where the logic comes from that BYU
would be more competitive in the PAC 12..."Simple:Bronco is 9-8(53%) versus PAC 12 teams, including wins over Oregon,
Washington, UCLA, Arizona, WSU and OSU.Kyle is 13-21(38%) versus PAC
12 teams, winless versus Oregon and Washington.Let's not forget
that BYU's two best corners were lost to injury before the 2013 season
began - both will be back next season.
I don't see improvement next year. I project a 3-4 (Idaho State, 1-2 pac
wins and maybe win over Fresno) win season next year and a new coach for
2015.Graduating several Key linemen and skill position players without the
depth to remain at the same level, along with this recruiting class shaping up
to be the lowest rated since joining the pac will result in disappointment for
@ Steven S Jarvis "Utah played a pretty solid schedule this year"I think #1 SOS in the country is more than pretty solid. The Utes will
need that Idaho State game on the schedule next year since their SOS will be at
the top again in 2014. Qualifying for a bowl in 14 will again be a monumental
task for the Utes because they don't have 5 built in wins to guarantee bowl
inclusion.... playing teams like Savannah State, UNLV, UConn (2-9), Middle
Tennessee State, and Virginia who's only other win in 2014 was against The
Virginia Military Institute.
True Blue, would BYU expect to be considered for a BCS bowl if they went
undefeated as an independent? In 2001, the Cougs were in the thick of the hunt
for a BCS bowl until late losses derailed the effort. How would Cougar nation
have reacted despite a less than stellar SOS that year had they won every game
and not been invited to the BCS? SOS in the BYU national
championship year has been discussed ad infinitum as being suspect, so who is
changing the narrative? BYU fan would have expected nothing less had they gone
undefeated and you know it. The argument by BYU fans has always been "we can
only beat who is on the schedule and we did that." I guess that argument is
a BYU exclusive?Utah "beat who was on our schedule" and won
every game in 2004 & 2008, including a quality win against Alabama who won 2
of the next 3 national titles in the Sugar Bowl.Apply your logic to
your own school.
It's rather ironic how people here go on with a lengthy analysis of how
long it has taken ASU to make it to the Rose Bowl, or how long it may take the
Utes to make it.But, they completely ignore this question; how long
will it take BYU to make it to the Rose Bowl, or any other BCS Bowl, given they
have chosen to follow the route of independence?
BYU9293 "byu is getting more 4 star recruits"I think you mean
"Kansas is getting BYU's 4 star recruits"."So just
be glad that both BYU and Utah are happy where they are."That is a
good message. The PAC12 money has been good for the whole state. Its not just
about football. BYU achieves its goal of spreading the word by being nationally
exposed."punching bag for a major conference"A big
frustration for Cougar fans is that Utah fans don't feel that way. But to
be fair, I view BYU as the "independent punching bag". Cougs
didn't really rise up to the challenge of their toughest season ever, eh?
As you say, thank goodness BYU didn't join the Big 12 where BYU would be
below TCU (i.e. last place).
skywalker,why leave it up to a computer to tell us who is better or
a coach who doesn't have time to watch anything other than game film of his
next opponent. why not refer to head-to-head results when they're right in
front of you? Utah 30 USU 26Utah 20 BYU 13Utah 3
USU 1Utah 4 BYU 0
Utes Win/Loss record 5-7Utes Moral Victory record 12-0How awesome! Great to be a Ute!
@ Kimmy P:How long have been the self-appointed spokesperson for
Cougar fans? I dislike having to say this, but you're now starting to sound
an awfully lot like the infamous Chris B. And that's a place you really
don't want to go. If you are actually a Ute fan, then stick with speaking
for them, and forget about trying to put words in the mouths of opponents. It
has already cost you in lost credibility. @ Ute 95:The
reason some people feel BYU might've done better in the PAC is because
literally every national poll and ranking service have them listed as the better
team... without exception. The Sagarin rankings use every conceivable,
measurable analysis tool (including strength of schedule). Football pundents
(who don't try to measure their entire season based on the results of only
one game) pay attention to it. And the latest, updated Sagarin rankings have BYU
5 places better than Utah... 28th versus 33rd.If you can be even
semi-honest, you'd have to admit that playing teams like Notre Dame,
Wisconsin, Boise State and Texas in front of national ESPN audiences is NOT
being in a small pond.
We're almost there - blah - blah - blah. A couple of plays and we're
in the Rose Bowl - blah - blah - blah. Seriously, You're almost as bad as
Colorado and Cal. You finished 10/12 in the Pac-12. When will this blather
@TrueBlue "2008 - Utah played the 56th SOS, only 1 regular season win
versus an opponent from a decent conference with a winning record"In 2008 Utah beat the following ranked teams; Oregon State, BYU, TCU,
Alabama.... two of which were top 10 teams. Don't try to make 2008
something less than it was. BYU has never even come close to beating so many
ranked teams in one season. Honest question for you. Has BYU ever beaten two
teams in the same season that finished the year in the top 25?
Wow, true blue, talk about looking through blue colored glasses. You cite the
SOS schedule from when Utah was a member of MWC, like it was their choice to
play those teams. That is what being a member of an actual conference does, it
gives a team set games to play each year. They only have room for 3 other
games.Unlike BYU, who can actually choose to fill up on 4 cupcakes
each year, then play 4 "upper" teams from non-BCS conferences, like
Boise State and/or San Jose State, and 4 mid to lower teams from BCS
conferences. Then at the end of the year, hold up the 8-4 record as proof the
cougars have accomplished something.BTW, take a look at the SOS this
year for both teams. That's what I thought.
Skywalker, "simple" is right. You oversimplified the comparisons. The
Oregon win was the Mike Bellotti years when Oregon was nowhere near where it is
several years later. Utah beat Oregon then as well when they came to SLC in
2004. UCLA was suffering through the Rick Neuheisel years (now PAC 12 Rick and
former UCLA coach). Some of the other games were nonconference games or wins in
the LV bowl when they played the sixth best team in the PAC 12. Not exactly an
apples to apples comparison.If your claim is that Bronco would win
more than 38% against the PAC 12 every week in CONFERENCE GAMES based on his
record of 9-8 under the circumstances outlined, I don't share your
Ed Grady,I don't see Utah fans claiming to be 8 plays away from
the national championship game like Y fans were last year. BYU fans have
cornered the market for that type of rhetoric. Utah may be as bad a
Colorado but certainly much better than BYU. Use 0-4 and 3-9 as evidence.
TrueBlue"Take off those crimson-colored, BYU-hating goggles already.
BYU played the 32nd toughest schedule in 2013, tougher by almost 10 places than
Utah's toughest schedule EVER, 41st, prior to 2013."That's a stupid comparison. So the bottom line of your post is that
Utah's schedule is light years ahead of byu's schedule...this year.
Yeah, we know that already. We knew it before the season started and are well
aware of it now. The problem for the Utes is...it doesn't matter because
byu is not Utah's competition. You people are sounding more
frustrated and desperate all the time.
KimmyPNational Championship trumps also-ran BCS bowl, ANYDAY!A dozen teams play in BCS bowls every year, including mediocre teams
like Pittsburgh, Hawaii, and Northern Illinois, but there is only ONE (or TWO,
if split) National Champion.AP #1Coaches #1BYU
finished #1 in both.btw, It's laughable that a Utah fan
doesn't know that it's Arizona, NOT ASU, that hasn't played in
the Rose Bowl.---------U 90"why leave it
up to a computer to tell us who is better"Because one game does
not a season make - see Utah and Stanford.It's funny how Utah
fans that were once so enamored with the BCS computers, so casually dismiss the
computer rankings when they don't support the latest Ute fan narrative.Latest BCS Standings#39 BYU#57 Utah
@ U 90:We all admit Kyle has lately had Bronco's number.
That's old news. Unfortunately for Ute fans like you, that's the only
remaining nail to hang your hat on. But don't read too much into it. Before
this latest mini-streak, BYU beat Utah 3 of the previous 4 games. This ongoing
rivalry goes back and forth. It always has and it always will... until they quit
playing each other. Just because Utah has recently done well against
the Cougars, other BCS teams... not as well. In fact, Bronco has an overall
better record against BCS conference teams than Kyle has. But it hurts your
argument to look at that bigger picture. Per your analysis, we
should consider Utah better than Stanford. Sorry. That doesn't work. You forgot to mention in your little analysis that Utah also lost to a
team (OSU) who themselves lost to a division II college team. As much as you
would NOT like to admit it, that's all part of the ups and downs of every
season for most teams. That's why the bigger picture is always used by
objective, unbiased fans (yourself excluded).
Let's change the subject matter just a bit...The University of
Utah gave byu $2M from our inclusion in the BCS. The BCS era has come and gone.
Are byu fans pleased that byu never had the opportunity to play on the big
Agreed. Hypothetically, if the ten best teams in the country were all in the
same conference, the worst among them would have seven or eight losses and would
never be considered by the AP or coaches poll. While this is obviously an
extreme example, the Utes really did prove themselves in an outstanding Pac-12.
KimmyP"You cite the SOS schedule from when Utah was a member of
MWC, like it was their choice to play those teams."Yet, Utah
fans have the unmitigated gall to criticize BYU's 1984 SOS when BYU won the
National Championship?Pot meet kettle.
KimmyP"Unlike BYU, who can actually choose to fill up on 4
cupcakes each year, then play 4 "upper" teams from non-BCS conferences,
like Boise State and/or San Jose State, and 4 mid to lower teams from BCS
conferences."LOL at your over-simplification.Do you
honestly think that BYU has the option of scheduling any opponent they want, any
time they want? BYU, in only its 3rd season as an Independent, put together a
2013 schedule that was TOUGHER than ANY schedule Utah had ever played, until
this season.The simple truth is NOBODY knows how good or bad a team
might be 3 or 4 years from now. Notre Dame, for example, could be a national
championship contender, like last season, or merely decent, like this year. Even
Utah State could be a Top 25 team, or simply a decent team.Houston,
Georgia Tech, and Utah State could have each been BCS bowl contenders. Texas
still is.It's laughable that you criticize BYU's built in
cupcakes, while Utah has two built in cupcakes every year - a Big Sky team and
Ahh yes, "one game does not a season make", the favorite battle cry of Y
faithfulA respectable season, by golly, should be built on the backs
of cupcakes to ensure inclusion in the Kraft Fight Hunger bowl. That's the
definition of true and honorable season.0-4, 3-9... no computers or
cupcakes to mask reality just straight up head-to-head football.
My Perspective"The University of Utah gave BYU $2M from our
inclusion in the BCS."LOL at your spin!Utah
didn't "give" BYU anything. The amount BYU received from the BCS
for Utah's bowl participation wasn't even close to $2 million.BYU receives substantially more revenue from ONE home game televised on
ESPN, than BYU ever received from Utah playing in a BCS bowl.
@TatorsStop day dreaming that BYU would do better playing in a Big 5
league. On what planet can a 3rd place MWC team be able to compete
in the Big 12 and PAC-12 when it has been proven that the #1 and #2 MWC teams
cannot?Is it because BYU’s current talent is 0-8 vs Utah and
TCU?Or maybe because…In 2013 BYU is 2-2 vs teams
with a losing record (Utah was 2-0).BYU is 2-4 vs PAC-12 since going Indy
(two wins over 3 win teams).BYU has a losing record against Big 5 teams
under Bronco.Please provide the pundit that said BYU can compete in
the Big 12 or PAC-12 today. I can use a laugh.
@Draper Ute Fan\How is Bronco vs. Kyle? Just askin......BYU fans never post that stat when comparing the two. Now that's curious?
So Utah is on the cusp of being competitive in the PAC because the Utes lost a
lot of close games, but Utah has "owned" BYU lately because the Utes
have won the majority of the 14 of 17 games that have been decided by 7 points
or less in the closing minutes or in overtime?Bottom line - final
record and rankings are the final word on each season.In 6 of the 9
seasons during the Bronco/Kyle era, BYU has finished with a better record AND
higher ranking than Utah.Despite the head-to-head losses in 2013,
Stanford and BYU are both better than Utah.BCS standings: #39 BYU
> #58 UtahUSA Today rankings: #34 BYU > #76 UtahSagarin
rankings: #28 BYU > #33 UtahComposite rankings(98): #29 BYU > #54
Truth MachineSalt Lake City, UT"The University of Utah
gave BYU $2M from our inclusion in the BCS.LOL at your spin!"There's no spin in the comment I posted. The same cannot be said
about your post, however.Now, I will ask you again...are you pleased byu
never earned the opportunity to play on the big stage (BCS)?
UteologyBronco is 9-8(53%) versus PAC 12 teamsKyle is
13-21(38%) versus PAC 12 teamsNo amount of slicing and dicing that
stat will change the fact that Bronco has been MUCH more competitive versus PAC
12 teams, than Kyle.
Fans are funny. BYU and Utah won exactly the same number of MWC championships
while in that league...4 each. In old WAC byu won 19 and Utah won 2. Thus, BYU
was not the #3 team (overall speaking) from the mwc. They have finished 3rd
some years, but so did Utah. So that idea just does not wash. I cannot say if
byu would win more games that Utah in the pac and I don't think that
mattered, from people at the meetings, byu was considered before Utah and was
not invited because they refuse to play on sundays. Those are the facts,
period. Any other version is just plain not true.Also, the big12 wanted
byu and did not offer an "official" invitation because byu would not
give in on tv rights, which was the best move for byu. The conferences normally
make the deals first and it is firmly in place before they ever offer an
'official' invitation, just the way it is done.
LonestarRunnerSalt Lake City, UT"Do you honestly think
that BYU has the option of scheduling any opponent they want, any time they
want?"Nobody believes that, OnestarRunner, and the truthfulness
of that statement will really hit home when byu fans begin to focus on what
Holmoe has lined up for 2014. Preseason, byu's schedule looked
fairly respectable on paper. Now that we've reached the end of the year,
it's clear that it was a joke. But again...it will be wildly entertaining
when the byu collective starts to focus on 2014.
Based on overall past performance, over the previous 10-20 years, then BYU could
be considered as more likely to compete for championships in football and other
sports. Let us not forget, the invitation is not all about football, but other
sports also.To Chris B and others, it is good you don't view
yourselves as a punching bag for others in your conference, that way you can be
happy, really. I don't consider byu a punching bag for others easy, so
good. however, your conference record over the last 3 years says you are a
punching bag for them.It is also interesting how quickly ute fans jumped
on the bcs propaganda bandwagon when they were fighting so hard against it just
the year before joining. The fact is, until football has a real playoff that
includes the conference champion from every single conference, regardless of
weak anyone thinks they are, there will not be a true national champion, it is
till mythical. If the BCS teams are so great, they should welcome an easy game
in the first rounds. Where does that leave byu as independent...in trouble if
we ever went to a real playoff.
@MyPerspectiveUtah has given BYU more bowl profits than they have earned
themselves, what do ya think? The cougs offer no appreciation either.
Contending?utes had 7 home games and were 4-3utes has 5 road
games and were 1-4 (the 1 being byu)thank goodness you had more home
games this year or it would have been uglier than 5-7the pac10.2 has
to be wondering "WHAT were we thinking?"Locker Clean out
@BYU9293Why stop there with championships? The Skyline Conference:
Utes = 10 BYU = 0Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference: Utes = 10 BYU = 0What about future conference championship prospects: Utah = yes BYU =
@ Cats"I've said it before. I'll say it again. The
PAC-12 has been a disaster for the Utes. They are in completely over their
heads!"The same can be said about BYU! Independence has been a
disaster for BYU. The only thing they have going for them is their ESPN deal.
Even that is a double edge sword. They get their national exposure they were
craving, but they've also been nationally exposed by every good team on
their schedule for the last 3 years. Even Utah has beaten BYU all three years
since going Indy on ESPN. Lucky for BYU, they have enough cream puffs to help
them get to bowl eligibility so they can play in their mediocre bowl game. Utah may struggle now in the PAC-12, but they'll eventually turn
things around. The PAC-12 offers significantly more rewards than independence
and the MWC. But each conference team has to earn it on the field.
DuckhunterStill at it, eh, Duck. At least you came up with something
different to say. Now, I will ask you again...are you pleased byu
never earned the opportunity to play on the big stage (BCS)?
@BYU9293"The fact is, until football has a real playoff that includes
the conference champion from every single conference, regardless of weak anyone
thinks they are, there will not be a true national champion, it is till
mythical."Of course 1984 is excluded from the mythical championship
@ Cats"I've said it before. I'll say it again. The
PAC-12 has been a disaster for the Utes. They are in completely over their
heads!"You can say it all you want, it won't change a
thing...there's not a single Utah fan on the planet complaining about being
the Pac-12. Contending in our elite conference is the subject of the article
and the Utes are very close to doing just that. How about you,
Cats, are you pleased that the BCS era has come and gone and your cougs never
got so much as a sniff at the big game?
You would think from all the lively posts that the rivalry game was back where
it belongs...right after Thanksgiving.Why can't we all just get
along. I mean, BYU, you have gone independent, play some tough games, get to a
bowl game, and enjoy the increased revenue and exposure on ESPN. Happy for you.
You have some solid tradition and are well recognized nationally. Utah as a program has worked extremely hard since the Ronnie Mac era to
improve from what had been a program flagging for years. Fred Whittingham
(one-time Cougar) told Kyle Utah was a sleeping giant. Mac, Meyer, Whit, and
Chris Hill improved the Utah program the last two decades and it led to a PAC 12
invite. We love our team and the success they have had and we stick with them
when we have tough seasons too. Ridicule, mock, and scorn if you must, we are
happy.Cougar fans, you endured some pretty brutal seasons under
coach Crowton and most BYU fans I talk to are not overjoyed with Bronco/Anae
2.0, but you stick with your team. The rivalry is alive and perhaps
a little too well.
MyPerspectiveWhat Duckhunter said!
Bleed Crimson"They get their national exposure they were
craving, but they've also been nationally exposed by every good team on
their schedule for the last 3 years."How was BYU
"exposed" versus Texas this year, a team that could still win the Big 12
and play in a BCS game?How was BYU "exposed" by #16/#17 Utah
State in 2012?How was BYU "exposed" losing 3 games to Top 25
teams by a total of 10 points in 2012?How was BYU "exposed"
losing to Texas 16-17 and TCU 28-38 in 2011?Utah fans are prone to
using hyperbole when the actual facts contradict your crimson-goggles shaded
My PerspectiveAre you pleased that the BCS era has come and gone and
that the Utes never even came close to playing for a BCS championship, which,
after all, was the ultimate goal of creating the BCS?btw, before you
get all indignant about how close the Utes were in 2004 and 2008, just remember,
the Utes finished #6 in the final BCS standings both years, and finished #5 and
#4 in the final Coaches polls, the poll that officially crowns the BCS champion
as national champion.
Utah has a tough task ahead to upgrade their talent. They have to compete with
BYU for instate and national LDS athletes and with 4 California PAC12 schools in
the state with the largest concentration of high school athletes. When they joined the PAC, I predicted that the Utes would dominate the in
state recruiting wars. But what we have seen is BYU making strides to create a
nation brand with the ESPN and BYUTV broadcasts which appeals to the LDS athlete
and the resurgence of Utah State gaining prominence in the MWC further pulling
from the Utes pool of mid level players. Now that we are
approaching the 4th year of Whits PAC 12 recruiting cycle it seems obvious that
the U will struggle to reach a break-even record, far short of what will lead
locals to continue the support with ticket sales and ongoing alumni
contributions. For that reason I would look for Dr Hill to bring in a new coach
with recruiting experience beyond the traditional Utah recruiting map, another
Urban Myer with ties to the Midwest and Southeast would benefit the program for
the long term and energize the program in the short run.Go Utes!
With BYU going to play either Washington or USC in their bowl game the last week
of December... and Utah spending their holidays ice fishing, We can now get on
to Basketball Season!BYU currently sits at #9 in the RPI (Ratings
Percentage Index (RPI), used by the NCAA to help pick at-large teams and
determine seeds for the NCAA Tournament. )BYU is among nice company
hovering between...1Massachusetts2Connecticut3Kansas4Syracuse5Villanova6Baylor7Wisconsin8Michigan State9Brigham Young10Wichita State11Ohio StateUtah is #155
among the likes of153New Orleans154Northwestern155Utah156Albany157Grand Canyon158Milwaukee159Quinnipiac
@noperspective"The University of Utah gave byu $2M from our
inclusion in the BCS."False, that is a complete and total
fabrication, I won't even give you credit for just being ignorant because
this has been discussed on here far to many times for you to be ignorant.
BYU has not even come close to losing to every good team since independence.BYU played 8 bowl teams this year 8 that is pretty good.USA Today
re-rankings of BYU scheduleVirginia-L (105)Texas-W (22)Utah-L (76)MTSU-W (55)USU-W (48)GT-W
(46)Houston-W (36)BSU-W (43)Wisconsin-L(18)ISU-WNotre Dame-L (28)Nevada-W (91)Utah is better than
this ranking but BYU had a decent season, Utah I think is a good team.Colorado is 97 if anyone wants to know.Good luck to both schools in the
future and stay classy fans.Merry Christmas
LonestarRunnerDeepBlueDuckhunterNow, I am going to ask
you three again...Are you pleased that the BCS era has come and gone and that
your cougs never got so much as a sniff at the big game?Enlighten
us, Duck...how much did byu make off of Utah's appearance in the two
(count'em 2) BCS bowl games. Say what you want but support what you say.
I have to tell ya, sport, whatever the amount byu received (and it was at or
very near $1M for ever team in the conference) it was far more than byu
deserved. Before you pontificate on that answer, give us your opinion regarding
my first question. We all know you have one, what is it?In
Duckhunter fashion, I will ask the same question a different way...How do you people feel about NEVER making it to a big game on the grandest of
@noperspectiveCurrent "BCS" Standings#39 BYU#56 UtahCongratulations! For all of Utah's PAC 12ness,
you're barely in the upper half of the BCS standings with no bowl, while
that Independent program down south once again finishes in the top third and is
headed to their 9th straight bowl.The only thing Utah fans are
"accomplishing" by their arrogant disparagement of the WAC and MWC is
diminishing the only meager accomplishments the Utes have ever had.
The utes are contenders already. They own the basement of the over-rated pac.
What more did they expect? When you can't consistently beat the other
bottom feeders you are right where you belong. Have a nice bowl-less season and
enjoy the real football programs on TV in their bowls.Next year
looks to be the same as the last three but with maybe one less win.
The writer of this article is just throwing the utes a bone since they have to
live in the same city. I'm sure he really didn't mean what he wrote.
Who could? The utes are a disaster in both football and basketball, but hey
they d well in skiing.
....which team, BYU or Utah, has gotten more bowl profit sharing money from the
other school between 1975 and 2010 while the teams were in the same
conference?Before you answer, consider that when a non-BCS team
makes a BCS bowl, the payout is reduced, and split between ALL non BCS schools.
Utah hasn't contributed nearly as much as you would like to think.
let's look at how they contended against WSU this year! Yeah, I
didn't think so.
@Utah95 - "I know that your claim that BYU would win more games than Utah in
the Pac 12 is popular among the BYU faithful, but what evidence do you have to
support it?"Over the last 10 seasons, excluding Utah, BYU is 9-5
against Pac-10/12 teams. If you take it over the last 8 seasons, that goes to
9-2. While previous seasons are never a guarantee, one might look to this to
say they'd be competitive.
"Now, I am going to ask you three again...Are you pleased that the BCS era
has come and gone and that your cougs never got so much as a sniff at the big
game?"I am not one of the three that you listed but I will take
that one.I must admit it is very disappointing to not have been a
participant in a BCS bowl game like such football tradition rich schools as
Northern Illinois, Connecticut and Hawaii (Utah).We just have to
unite ourselves with the schools that have both a national championship and
Heismann Trophy winner such as USC, Notre Dame, Ohio State and Michigan
(BYU).Somehow that little consolation prize is good enough for BYU
fans. Go Figure.
@noperspectiveThere are two iconic trophies that represent the
epitome of team and individual achievement in major college football - the
Crystal Football National Championship Trophy and the Heisman Trophy.Both trophies are displayed proudly in BYU's Legacy Hall of Fame.Utah has never even come close to winning either.No fan in
their right mind would even consider trading a BCS berth for either.The list of major college football national champions and Heisman Trophy
winners will endure as long a major college football is played.The
"prestige" of being a BCS buster is quickly fading and will soon be
nothing more than a footnote on major college football history.How
do BYU fans feel about not ever playing in a BCS game? A little disappointed,
nothing more.BYU has already played on the biggest stage in major
college football, a national championship game, something Utah fans can only
dream of being a part of.
@phoenix UteologyBronco is 9-8(53%) versus PAC 12
teamsKyle is 13-21(38%) versus PAC 12 teamsNo amount of
slicing and dicing that stat will change the fact that Bronco has been MUCH more
competitive versus PAC 12 teams, than Kyle.-----------Nope! When Kyle played 1-2 PAC-12 teams, like Bronco does each
year, he was: 4-3 (57%) The opponents were a combined 52-37 (58%)Bronco is 10-7 (58%)The opponents were a combined 98-114 (46%)It's okay if you don't understand the difference between competing
against 1-2 PAC-12 teams a year and competing against 9 PAC-12 teams.
I'm a convert. Stars do matter as has been adroitly explained. Most teams
have a good first string, but the stronger recruiting (stars) teams don't
get paper thin when a starter goes down. Watching Wisconsin and Notre
Dame's depth made an obvious impression that depth begins with the star
count and as the season winds down, injuries to starters depletes teams with
fewer top quality athletes and lessens their chances of winning the close ones.
If a W is a W then an L is an L right? So if a team goes 0-12 but loses by 7 or
less in all of those games its still a great accomplishment? and they are just
right there to contend? lol love Pac logic. Byu is 8-4 so by that logic are way
above being contenders. Good job Byu!!! While barely losing to Notre Dame, Utah
@ MyPerspective:You and a few ultra-ute fans don't seem to get
it no matter how simply it's spelled out for you. BYU fans are
very happy we have the opportunity to play on a Big Stage every year. If we win
enough games, like almost all other college teams, we would then go to a BCS
bowl game. Boise State proved that when they were still playing in the WAC, as
did Utah when they were still in the MWC. Because of BYU's
affiliation with ESPN, they play on a much bigger national stage than the Utes
do. Even the biggest TV satellite company (Direct-TV) still doesn't carry
the PAC12 tv network. As such, BYU definitely has a bigger "stage" than
Utah. BYU played more big-name teams this year than Utah or Boise State ever did
when they played in BCS bowl games. So to answer your question...
Yes, most BYU fans are very pleased with our current stage arrangement. On
top of that, BYU still has more control over their schedule (a plus) than Utah
does with theirs (bummer). In fact, that's still a common excuse for Utah
fans whenever losing.
@ Uteology:If you do need a good laugh, try the mirror. The way you
pick and choose your info is almost hilarious. You are full of emotion and
rhetoric, but very short of actual facts. To start with, I never
said BYU would do well in the PAC12. Go back and check. I simply stated they
might do better than Utah has done so far. That's based on the fact that
literally all national polls and ranking services currently consider BYU a
better team than Utah... without exception Check the latest polls. Facts are
facts... whether you agree or not. And in almost everyone's
football books, those nationally recognized pundits carry much more weight than
you do. For you to even compare your hand-picked rhetoric to their inclusive
objectified facts used in analytical rankings is truly a good laugh. So do so.
It's on you. And like it or not, the only other meaningful info
we can use over a broader compilation spectrum for comparative purposes is how
BYU and Utah have done in their respective BCS games over fairly recent history.
Fair or not, Bronco has better percentages than Kyle... Laugh or cry. Your
LonestarRunnerDeepBlueDuckhunterdeductive reasoningRockwellTatorsWithout exception, each of you has weighed in
on this well written article (which presents a to hope for a bright future for
Utah football). Without exception, each one of you (and others like you) has
commented on the Utes coming up short thus far in the elite and intensely
competitive Pac-12. Let's talk for a moment about what byu has
FAILED to accomplish in the BCS era. Utah accomplished it (twice), TCU
accomplished it (Twice), BSU accomplished it, even Hawaii got it done. What's wrong with byu? Why did the they come up not just short but
never even entered into the conversation? The BCS era is over and byu has what
done with the opportunity?
@Tators: "As such, BYU definitely has a bigger "stage" than Utah.
BYU played more big-name teams this year than Utah or Boise State ever did when
they played in BCS bowl games."Big-name teams means diddly.Utah won more big games (ranked teams) in 2008 than BYU has since 1997
or when they backed into a National Title.BYU has such a control
over their schedule that this is what they came up with for next year?@Ucon@TexasVirginia (let’s hope it doesn’t rain)HoustonUtah State@UCF (Ranked)Nevada@Boise@Middle TennUNLVSavannah State @CalI count 9
wins already. This is a plus? You might as well claim you are the
better team with 9 wins without even playing a down.
@ Bleed Crimson:You lost tons of credibility by asserting BYU's
independence has been a disaster for them, when just the opposite is factually
true. It's true that Utah might be over their heads by no
longer being able to qualify for any bowl games and having to fight so hard just
to stay out of the very bottom of the PAC12 basement. I wished that wasn't
true. But it's a fact. BYU on the other hand, are still
finishing their seasons more often nationally ranked than not. They are playing
more nationally televised games than ever before. They have played in bowl games
every single year Bronco has been head coach... 8 and counting. They are making
multiple times more money than they ever did before with any conference
affiliation. And they did so with a SOS in the top 20% of all
college teams. In fact, it was stronger this year than any schedule Utah has
ever played... prior to this year. On top of that BYU has much more
choice over who they play than any conference team has. That's a very good
thing. Ask any head coach.You have a right to be jealous.
UteologySame old, same old with Kyle - he does well when he only has
to get his team up for one or two games a season. Over the course of
an entire season, however, the record speaks for itself; except one perfect
storm season, Kyle is mediocre, at best.Bronco/Kyle eraAP Top 25 FinishesBronco 4Kyle 211+ win, Top 15
FinishesBronco 3Kyle 110+ Win SeasonsBronco 5Kyle 3Conference ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 1Kyle lost to every bottom dweller in the MWC; Bronco was undefeated against
the likes of Wyoming, New Mexico, Colorado State, and UNLV.Bronco
may have lost a season-opening game in a driving rainstorm with a QB coming off
a season-ending injury after only starting two games as a Freshman, but, with
the PAC South title there for the taking, Bronco would not have lost a
season-ending game, at home, to a 10-loss team that hadn't won a road game
in 3 years.BYU won 23 WAC/MWC titles; Utah only won 6.Surviving the weekly grind of a conference season is simply something the Utes
I love it when Tators declares "BYU played more big name teams this year
than Utah..." Can you name one commentator or national source for such a
conclusion?Let's see, Virginia...8 straight losses.
Texas...best team the Cougars played and actually beat (the Longhorns 2nd
toughest conference game remains). Whenever a team plays a school with Northern,
Middle, Eastern, Western, or anything else like that in front of their name,
justified skepticism from objective fans...aka Middle Tennessee. Average Georgia
Tech team, good but unranked Utah State, Houston we have a problem with 4 losses
in a 6 game stretch. A good but not great Badger team, the Mighty Pocatelloans,
a below average Notre Dame, and a near upset by the 4-8 Wolfpack. Just because you played them doesn't validate the schedule, as BYU fans
less than subtly point out about Utah. Your signature win is Texas and it was a
convincing win. Too bad BYU didn't have a statement win the rest of the
season (and please don't claim Boise State). Texas only remains in the top
25.The Utes played 4 teams still in the top 25. Stanford, Oregon,
USC, UCLA, & Arizona State trump that "big name" schedule.
@MyPerspective--that's why I put IMO, and it makes sense.
BTW Tators, the IF in "If we win enough games...we would then go to a BCS
bowl game" has yet to happen. The only IF scenario for BYU to be considered
for a BCS game is to go undefeated and hope the system has an opening in a down
year. IF the Cougars had gone undefeated this season with their
schedule, they are still looking at pretty bleak prospects because of the way
the BCS factors in SOS. You would have a tough time beating out any of the top
10 BCS teams. This year may have been the Cougars best IF
opportunity because it was their best independent schedule to date, but they
pretty much blew it the first weekend of play.Pretty comical that
the Cougs are celebrating a Ute "cellar" and "dormat" 5-7 season
when their 3 more wins are not substantially better and nothing to get too
excited about. 3 more wins Cougs and you are chest pounding? Give me Nevada,
Middle Tennessee, (I'll give you the straight up exchange of Weber State
for your Idaho State), then give me Virginia. I'll mark down three more
wins right there, and Utah's schedule would still trump BYU.
@U 90--and Utah can't beat Boise State
UteologyNobody knows how good teams are going to be from year to
year. Last year, Auburn was abysmal (0-8, 3-9). This year, Auburn is a national
championship contender.With that said, when was the last time Utah
played and beat 7 bowl teams that finished with at least 7 regular season wins
in the same season?BYU's 2014 Schedule with 2013 recordsat UConn 2-9at Texas 8-3 (Texas could still win the Big 12)Virginia 2-10Houston 8-4Utah St 8-4 (Utah St could still win the
MWC)at Ctrl Fla 10-1Nevada 4-8at Boise St 8-4at Mid Tenn
St 8-4UNLV 7-5Savannah St 1-11at California 1-11
DraperUteFanAnybody who claims that Texas, Notre Dame, Wisconsin,
and Georgia Tech aren't all big name programs is simply blowing smoke.
Throw in Utah State (which beat Utah last year and barely lost to Utah this
year), along with Boise St and Houston (two teams Utah has never beaten), and
BYU still played a schedule that Utah would have been hard-pressed to do any
better against than the did with their own schedule.BYU's #32
SOS was tougher than ANY schedule Utah has ever played, prior to this season.Stop whining about schedule when you finished with the exact same 5-7
record last season with a #41 SOS.
@Worf--and BYU can't beat Virginia. Ouch!
@ worf"and Utah can't beat Boise State"Hardly anyone in college football could beat Boise State the last two times
Utah played the Broncos. They were a well oiled machine that just wins in
dominating fashion. Ever since Kellen Moore and that strong senior class
graduated. Boise State has become mediocre! BYU has scheduled them while they
are down. That seems to be the only way BYU ever beats reputable teams. BYU can't beat Utah anymore!
worf, what does Boise State have to do with your original argument
that BYU would win more games in the PAC12 than Utah IF the cougs had been
Has BYU ever beaten two teams in the same season that finished the year in the
top 25?I don't know the answer but there's gotta be a Y
fan who does. Please enlighten
UteologyUtah could easily finish with no better than a 6-6 record
versus BYU's 2014 schedule@UConn - win@Texas - lossVirginia - winHouston - loss (Utah has never beaten Houston)Utah
St - toss up@UCF - lossNevada - win@Boise St - loss (Utah has
never beaten Boise St)@Middle Tenn - toss upUNLV - winSavannah
State - win@Cal - win (assuming the Bears are as bad as this year,
otherwise loss, remember 2011)-----------DraperUteFanPretty comical that the Utes are "celebrating" another 5-7,
bowl-less season because they managed to pull off a bunch of close losses
against a tough schedule.BYU's 8-4 record is good for 39th in
the current BCS standings.Utah's 5-7 record is good for 56th in the
current BCS standings.While BYU finished in the top 3rd, Utah barely
finished in the top half of the BCS standings.If finishing between
La.-Lafayette and Toledo floats your boat, feel free to continue beating your
chest about achieving such a lofty "accomplishment".
Spokane UteU can have Virginia (which, incidentally, Utah has never
beaten).BYU will take Texas, Boise State, and Houston (which,
incidentally, Utah has also never beaten).
"BYU has already played ... a national championship game" --
Rockwell.BYU should be proud of their Heisman and National Championship
trophies. Those are great accomplishments that stand are their own. There is
no need to flat out lie about them.BYU didn't play in a
national championship game. They played an unranked team in the Holiday Bowl.
National championship games didn't begin until over a decade later.
BYU's experience was nothing compared to the pressure and intensity of
today's championship games between the top two teams.
Elmer Fudd"Hardly anyone in college football could beat Boise
State the last two times Utah played the Broncos."You're
ignoring the fact that Utah lost to the Broncos in 1998, 1999, 2006 and 2010.The Broncos were only 6-5 in 1998 and the 10-3 1999 Broncos lost to
SoonerUteIt's common knowledge that to win a national
championship, you have to be ranked #1 in the final polls.BYU was
ranked #1 in both polls for almost a month prior to the bowls, so BYU's
bowl game was in fact the national championship game.Nebraska and
Washington both tried to work the established precedent by beating a
lower-ranked team in another bowl and hoping that the voters would overlook the
fact that the #1-ranked team was still undefeated.All five major
national selecting organizations still selected BYU as the 1984 National
Champions.Like it or not, the 1984 Holiday Bowl was the National
MidPac, you miss the point as have virtually every other Coug fans. Conservation
Bias, the tendency to see only your point of view, is something we are all
guilty of, but cmon man!Auburn won the NC when Cam Newton was there
with a 14-0 record, but the following year they went 8-5 and nearly lost to Utah
State. Not too shabby, but barely good enough for 4th in the SEC East.You judge a team by past reputation, not their results that year. You ignore
the results of those "big name" teams this year. I don't. You see
what you want to see. Texas got blasted by Oklahoma State, Mississippi State,
and BYU this year. They have yet to play Baylor and skated by much of a Big 12
that every pundit in the land acknowledges is weaker than most years. Those
other teams are simply not as dominant THIS YEAR as you think their "big
name" reputation suggests. The combined record of the teams you listed is
32-15. BTW, you were 1-3 in those games...did you know?
jpjazz predicted that the Utes would dominate the in state recruiting wars --
and then seemingly talked himself out of it. How can Utah compete in in-state
recruiting?BYU has a national brand, but their recruiting rankings
have actually dropped since going independent. Utah competes here by putting
kids into the NFL. BYU will talk about Ziggy Ansah, but recruits are smart and
know that he wasn't recruited. Ziggy's success is natural talent.
Keep in mind that a recruit in high school today grew up watching Utah win 9 of
the last 12 rivalry games. Kids go with a winner.USU is going to
take away Utah recruits? I'm not following you on that. If a kid is told
he is good enough to play against PAC12 talent, why would he instead choose to
play in Cheyenne and Fort Collins in winter?Recruiting against the
PAC12 schools will always be tough. Here again Utah competes by putting kids
into the NFL but also... play time. Kids want to play. Sit on the bench at
UCLA or most likely start at Utah, be seen by scouts, and get a shot at the next
Tators "I'm glad Utah beat Colorado to keep from finishing in the very
bottom of the conference basement."Colorado is not the basement
of the conference. They beat Cal 41-24.Just thought you should know
what you don't know.
U90,Utah has not played the most difficult schedule for 2013 because
SOS is evaluated after games have been played. Utah played Colorado and the SOS
in conference fell behind a few teams with that addition. I looked at several
sites for the SOS metric and none of them has Utah at the top of the nation for
difficulty. Congrove has the Utes fourth behind Stanford, Oklahoma and Cal.
Arizona State should leapfrog the Utes this week since they play Stanford and
are in fifth. BYU played the 22nd most difficult schedule. While you mock MTS,
they ranked around thirty places higher than the Utes in the mid-fifties, and
will once again be bowling. I admit I was disappointed that MTS wasn't
able to muster nine or ten wins like they typically do. Even in a DOWN year
they still got to 8 and went bowling.Another site had Utah falling
from 2nd to 17th with the game against Colorado. The Utes end of year strength
will get passed up by a few teams that are bowling, but they should still be
able to boast the went 5-7 against a top ten schedule.
Kilarney, not sure of your age, but I think you were either not alive when the
1984 game happened or just don't know the history of college football.BYU played in the Holiday Bowl and nobody declared it the "national
championship game" as no such thing existed then. The media decided the
champion, which was why there were so many disputed champions even now through
the flawed BCS system.BYU defeated the worst 6-6 Michigan team in
decades. Washington defeated Nebraska in the Orange Bowl, two teams generally
thought to be much better than BYU. By your logic and every other Cougar's
logic, the Utes at 13-0 in 2008 were the only undefeated team, and therefore the
only team deserving of a National Championship, but no, BYU uses its logic
exclusively on BYU.BYU logic is a "peculiar" thing.
Selectively applied, limited in its scope to the Cougars. The 1984 Holiday Bowl
was a second tier bowl only and not one person at that time thought of it as
"the national championship game." I guess you had to be alive then to
remember what it was like.
"Are byu fans pleased that byu never had the opportunity to play on the big
stage?"BYU's already played on a biggest stage for an NC so
this question is senseless.So in kind I'll follow it up with
one of my own...PAC12 stickers anyone?
My bad, it was a 9-2 Oklahoma team that Washington beat in the 1984 Orange Bowl.
Kilarney, you have a real head scratcher on your hands with "Nebraska and
Washington tried to work the established precedent by beating a lower ranked
team..." Oklahoma was ranked #2 they played Washington in the at the time.
Is that your idea of a "lower ranked team?" Bowl alignments
were even more fixed than they are now and affiliated by conference almost
exclusively. BYU had no choice but to play in the Holiday Bowl, a bowl they were
contracted to play in as the WAC champ. The Big 8 champ was slated for the
Orange Bowl. There was no way the two could meet to decide a true national
champion.To my knowledge, 6-5 Michigan was not ranked at all, so it
is not as if BYU "played up" to win, and it took a furious 4th quarter
rally to beat the Wolverines. Perhaps you can expound on your
"established precedent" theory?
@UteanymousOnly at BYU does a season ending LEG injury affect the
passing game. By week two against Texas Hill ran for 250 yards and was a top 6
rusher but the worst passing QB in the nation. FACT: 62% of the
total wins were against losing teams @killarney: "Utah
could easily finish with no better than a 6-6 record versus BYU's 2014
schedule"Keep day dreaming because reality isn't where you
spend most of your time.* Utah was 33-6 the last three years in the
MWC (All loses to AP top 25 teams)* Utah is 8-1 vs mid-majors since then
(loss to a top AP 25 team)
@ killarney"U can have Virginia (which, incidentally, Utah has
never beaten).BYU will take Texas, Boise State, and Houston (which,
incidentally, Utah has also never beaten)"Two can play that
game! BYU has never beaten Alabama and Utah has never lost to them. Utah will gladly take teams like USC and Stanford (which incidentally, BYU has
also never beaten). Utah leads the all time series with Stanford 3-2.Utah has beaten Boise State before. They have beaten them twice! Boise State
leads the all time series 5-2. You might want to check your facts before you
lose all credibility.
"Contending" isn't in itself a 'good' thing... Lots of
contenders continuously find a way to lose... There were no blow out losses for
BYU this year... 10 or less points was the dagger each and every time. Arizona,
WSU, USC and Oregon spoiled that from being a possibility for the Utes. Go
ahead... 19-16, 20-13, 27-17, 23-13. 4 losses... Not ONE was over 10 points. I
guess that means BYU is a contender too... That is where I'm nipping this
line of thinking right in the bud before it makes people overly comfortable with
mediocrity. A play here or there being different doesn't make a team
'great'... Because with all the narrow wins by both programs those
same plays going the opponents way would have resulted in just one more loss...
Oddly enough Utah's wins outside of Weber State were all 7 points or
less... That isn't contention... That is squeaking... competition level is
not a metric of justification for futility. Anyone who uses it as such is simply
in crass denial.
Wow...I'm going to do something completely unique to this thread: comment
on the topic of the article rather than compare the U and the Y.Challenges to Utah's success in the PAC-121. USC--There was a
window of opportunity while their scholarships were limited but with them going
back to full scholarships and Sark going there to coach, they'll again be
dominant in Utah's division.2. Top end recruiting--Utah continues to
have their average creep up (a good thing) but the top end teams are still
getting 10 4/5 star recruits for every one the Utes get. 3. Not being
overlooked. I'm hopeful that Utah will approach .500 in the conference in
the next couple of years. As they win more games, teams will stop looking past
them. I don't think a single PAC-12 opponent thought they played one of
their best games against Utah.Upsides:1. Head coaching
stability--It's a differentiater that should help recruiting2.
Defense--Great scheme, great coaching. Keeps the Utes in most games. As the
athletes improve (especially in the secondary)it will get even better. Need to
develop an identity on offense.Good luck to the Utes.
Excellent commentary, Mr. Sorensen.
The Utes need a good stable quarterback in order to contend. BYU turned its
offense around quickly with a good QB and the Utes can do the same. It is a game
Who would possibly suggest that Utah's jump to the PAC 12 was a mistake?
Only a complete idiot would advocate moving back to the MWC. Utah - and any
other non-BCS school - would make the same move under the same circumstances
again. Utah's football and basketball programs are moving forward.
Recruiting has made major leaps forward. Upgrades to athletic facilities are
first class. Utah is heading in the right direction. Anyone who suggests that
Utah's jump to the PAC 12 was a mistake is a fool.
@Elmer Fudd--Utah can't qualify for bowl games anymore.
@ killarney"You're ignoring the fact that Utah lost to the
Broncos in 1998, 1999, 2006 and 2010.The Broncos were only 6-5 in
1998 and the 10-3 1999 Broncos lost to North Texas!"Reread what
I wrote because you totally misinterpreted it! I said "Hardly
anyone in college football could beat Boise State the last two times Utah played
the Broncos"The last two times Utah played Boise State was in
2006 and 2010. Hardly any team in college football could beat Boise State
between 2006-2010 when Utah played them. In 2006 Boise State was 13-0 and Fiesta
Bowl champions and ranked #5. In 2010 Boise State was 12-1 losing only to Nevada
and ranked #7. Both those seasons Boise State pulled off big upsets during their
Sure, it may help playing PAC12 teams only 1-2 times versus 9 times. It
isn't frequency played but frequency successful that still matters.Playing on ESPN isn't necessarily a big stage... Just because
'we' are on ESPN every single week with very few exceptions
doesn't mean that the games are necessarily any more watched than those on
PAC-12... What Cougar fans can not take away from Utah is that they have to play
the cream of the crop of their division or the conference every season. That
definitely takes a toll... Perhaps Chris Hill could talk to his fellow
conference associated AD's into scheduling BYU for 12 straight weeks...
Then it could be apples to apples rather than apples to oranges. How soon that
could happen is not 'very'... Too many future schedules are already
breached. By the time it could be done the relevance of 'today' would
be yesterday's dream. Whereas for today it is simply a nice pipe dream.
@ worfYou can count on Utah beating BYU every year!Scoreboard!
DraperUteFanI remember history just fine, in fact, I was at the
Holiday Bowl when BYU beat Michigan to win their 24th straight game.Despite your biased hyperbole, every media expert and major college coach saw
exactly the same things BYU haters like you pretend that only you are privy too,
yet after carefully evaluating every contender for over a month, BYU was chosen
consensus national champion by all five major selecting organizations.The eyes of the entire college football nation were on the Holiday Bowl to see
if #1-ranked BYU would stumble versus a Michigan team that earlier in the season
had themselves been a national championship contender until a rash of injuries
sent them on a losing skid. By the time the Holiday Bowl rolled around, most of
Michigan's lost starters were back and healthy.The Wolverine
team that you so foolishly demean would have played in the Rose Bowl if they had
beaten their arch rival Ohio State in their final regular season game.If you want to blame someone for BYU not having a more "worthy"
opponent, blame Nebraska and Washington who both turned down invitations to play
BYU in the Holiday Bowl.
DraperUteFan"...you have a real head scratcher on your hands
with "Nebraska and Washington tried to work the established precedent by
beating a lower ranked team..." Oklahoma was ranked #2 they played
Washington in the at the time. Is that your idea of a "lower ranked
team?" It's you who doesn't seem to understand that
playing the #2-ranked team, instead of the #1-ranked team, is playing a LOWER
Uteology"Utah was 33-6 the last three years in the MWC (All
loses to AP top 25 teams)Utah is 8-1 vs mid-majors since then (loss to a
top AP 25 team)"More cherry picking?The Utes have
only beaten ONE PAC team with a winning record in 27 games.And
calling Montana State, Northern Colorado, and Weber State "mid majors"
simply demonstrates your desperate attempt to claim some sort of
respectability.Sagarin carefully evaluated BYU's and
Utah's records and SOS, and here are his conclusions:2011 #34
BYU(10-3) > #39 Utah(8-5)2012 #26 BYU(8-5) > #61 Utah(5-7)2013 #28 BYU(8-4) > #33 Utah(5-7)Sagarin's rankings are
generous to Utah compared to other rankings this year:BCS - #39 BYU
> #56 UtahCBS Sports - #38 BYU > #67 UtahUSA Today - #34 BYU
> #76 UtahAcross the board in every ranking BYU > UtahSorry to burst your crimson bubble, but you're not nearly as good
as you think you are.
Elmer FuddYou can also count on Utah finishing with a worse record
and lower ranking than BYU every year.Winning where it matters most,
in the final rankings!
ND95CA and Killarney, you like so many Cougar fans are so sensitive about the
national championship. BYU was chosen the consensus NC, but for you to deny that
there was significant controversy at the time is to bury your head in the sand
and deny reality. Bryant Gumbel was the most outspoken and some
would say obnoxious critic of the Cougar NC, but he was giving voice to what
many others thought. Bottom line is a 6-5 team going into the Holiday Bowl was
not the best test for BYU to prove it was the undisputed national champion. How
ironic that BYU loves to crack on Utah for playing a 7-4 Pitt team in the Fiesta
bowl. Those were great BYU teams back then, no disputing
that.I'm just saying the NC would have been given considerably more
legitimacy had they played the very best that year. Michigan clearly was not the
very best, thus BYU is often cited as one of the most disputed college football
championships ever...Google it.
"Mike Sorensen: Despite disappointing year, Utes aren't that far from
contending"They're going to need to be able to stay healthy
and play better on the road. They have a good home field advantage as evidenced
by a win over Stanford (and a should have won against Arizona St.) but, cannot
play on the road. Wilson is a good QB and with some better luck in the health
department can take them somewhere.Chris B., it is really cute when
you say "we."
I knew a couple years ago, the utes wouldn't swim in the PAC 12 lake. Fans
would brag on how they're such a good football team,--but I knew they would
be whining from playing a harder schedule while still claiming to be superior.
Have the utes found success in any sport?
@ UteanymousThe only way you can have a true comparison on which
team is better is if Utah and BYU played the exact same schedule. Then you can
make an argument. Unfortunately for you they both play completely different
schedules. Utah plays a much tougher schedule and BYU plays a much weaker
schedule. So you can't compare which team is better by their schedules.So if you really want to compare who is better, then you have to look
for a common opponent between the two teams and that is each other. Utah beat
BYU this year which means Utah is the better team. Scoreboard!
Come on Elmer, score board is absolutely meaningless to BYU fans. Unless the win
As a BYU fan, I am very jealous of the U's Pac 12 membership. We would
take it if we got offered it. I think we would be doing worse then them at this
point. I don't want to hear it that "we have more pac 12 wins then
Utah". I think BYU is improving and we are going to continue to get better
but Utah has our number.
@ DraperUteFan:As with a few other semi-possessed Ute fans, you seem
to read what you want to and not what was written. In so doing, you put words in
the mouths of BYU fans, just to make your rhetoric seem more plausible... though
it still isn't. I did NOT say that BYU played more big name
teams this year than Utah did this year. Go back and re-read. And if you're
even semi-honest, you'll do another "oops!"I said BYU
played more big name schools this year than Utah did during their BCS years. Not
such a hard concept to understand. At least for most people. And since Utah has
never had a strength of schedule BEFORE this year that was as tough as BYU had
this year, that fact speaks for itself. And it also undermines the rest of your
silly contentions. Next time, try reading comments with your eyes
open. It helps greatly in understanding others and will cut down some of your
obvious feelings of desperation.
Steven Jarvis,Per Sagarin SOS through 12/1.... Utah #1, BYU #32.
Sagarin is the most recognized source for SOS. Google it.You seem
to be a BYU research buff. I can't get any Y fans to answer this honest
question. Has BYU ever beat 2 teams in the same year that finished the season
ranked in the top 25?On two separate occasions Utah has beat 4
ranked teams in the same season (1994 and 2008)
@ Spokane ute:You've usually more objective than most other
ultra-Ute fans. So I believe you already know that BYU can beat Virginia. They
outplayed them, but lost on the scoreboard because of one dumb coaching
decision. You and other honest Ute fans already know BYU would beat this
year's Virginia 9 out of 10 times. Saying otherwise made it seem to only be
grasping at straws. And considering the year Utah had, that's totally
understandable. That's like saying Utah couldn't beat
Colorado after Colorado beat them 2 years ago with just a 1-win team. Everyone
knows what an upset is, (which that was) but still tries to use them against
others in their arguments. That always smacks of desperation. BTW:
When was the last time Utah ever beat Virginia?@ Uteology:Say what you will about BYU's schedule next year. But I absolutely
guarantee you (not a Chris B type of guarantee) that Kyle would trade Bronco
schedules next year in a heartbeat if given the chance. It might be the only way
to save his job. Besides that, some of those teams might be national
contenders next year. You (we) have no way of knowing.
Come on Uteanymous, National Rankings are absolutely meaningless to Utah fans.
Unless they are ranked higher of course.
Worf, the Utes are already swimming in the PAC 12 lake (an odd metaphor, but
whatever), and improved as evidenced by a win over Stanford. Think about it
Worf, if Utah had not beaten Stanford they would be top 4 in the BCS and at
least in the discussion for the NC.Most Ute fans I know are not
bragging, knowing the recent Ute squad and fan base have nothing to brag about
except 4 in a row against BYU. Every post I've seen from rational Ute fans
on this board are clear that we aren't happy with the results in the PAC 12
and certainly aren't bragging about the record and losses.As
for the ostensible "whining" going on, I see people posting that the
competition is tougher, which I don't consider whining. Just a fact of
life, and most of us are just fine with that.What is the Cougs
excuse for going 2-4 against teams with BCS affiliation? Is it because the
competition was just too good or the Cougs were just that awful? Which is it?
Tators, I'm glad you have coach Whit on speed dial to make guarantees you
have no valid reason to make.Bronco might like the his schedule
because it is a soft road to go bowling, but that safe route will never put BYU
back on the "national limelight" Cougar fans like to think of themselves
on. I couldn't disagree with you more with your coach Whit
analysis. The Utes may tank in a year and they may have years where they
overcome a very difficult schedule and achieve greatness. Kyle would
have a job offer in 5 minutes as a head coach or D coordinator if he were let go
at Utah, so you overstate his concern about playing a tougher schedule and his
potential job loss. Quite the contrary, I think he loves the challenge.Simple question Tators, what was the Cougs record this year against
teams with BCS affiliation? By my count, 2-4. Ironic how you and your fellow
Cougs rip the Utes for "being close" in games, but you lost to a team
who lost 8 straight in their season and try to put a silver lining on it.
@ DraperUteFan:There you go again... cherry picking your info. Your
arguments are starting to seem quite silly. Since Kyle complains
about his tough schedule after every one of his conference losses, it's an
easy assumption that he would love to have an easier schedule (i.e.,
Bronco's next year's schedule)... especially since many fans have been
calling for his job. Your denial is almost comical. BYU may've
gone 2-4 against BCS teams this year. But Utah went 2-6. Most people would
consider that doing worse. They even lost at home to a team that lost to a
division II college team. What's your funny spin on that? You acknowledge
upsets when they happen to Utah, but not to anyone else. If you are even halfway
objective, you would openly admit the Virginia game was an upset. ESPN and the
rest of the world recognizes that. But no way will a Ute troll. Perhaps another reason Utah is ranked lower than BYU in literally every single
national poll. BTW: Since you continue putting words in my mouth,
find one single place where I "ripped the Utes for being close in
games'. You can't because I didn't.
@ DraperUteFan:Despite all your cherry picking, BYU criticizing, and
continually putting words in other people's mouths, neither you or any
other Ute fan has yet to explain why all the college football coaches (Coaches
Poll), all the national press writers (AP Poll) and every single national
ranking service (Sagarin) still have BYU ranked higher (better) than Utah, and
have done so for most of the season. One big reason is because
everyone besides ultra-Ute fans look at the entire season and don't overly
emphasize just a single game or two. When people do (yourself included),
that's called cherry picking... something you and a few other Utes have
taken to an art form. You continually talk about BYU's first game of the
season, but never once give them any credit for winning 5 games in a row which
included some previously unbeaten teams... even while on the road. When did Utah
last win 5 games in a row?Everyone in the college football world
understands the Virginia game was an upset. Everyone except ultra-biased Ute
fans. PLEASE EXPLAIN why the entire football world, to this very
day, still rates and ranks BYU better than Utah.
@ DraperUteFan:One other thing you forgot or chose to not
mention...Bronco's "soft schedule" as you call it, is
considered harder (strength of schedule rankings) than 8 of the top 10 teams in
the latest polls. How do you explain that? And that same "soft
schedule" is rated more difficult than any schedule Utah has every played
prior to this year... ever. So what would that say for all of Utah's
previous schedules? Is there anything softer than ultra-soft?As far
as next year goes, there's a reason no one has yet assigned a strength of
schedule to next year's schedules. No one yet knows who will be next years
national contenders. You can guess all you want, but no one yet knows. Auburn
was downright lousy last year, but this year is still a contender for National
Champion... having just beaten Alabama, the previous #1 team. Though
not likely, it's still possible BYU could have a higher SOS than Utah next
season. No one yet knows. So why waste your time criticizing next year's
schedule for anyone? Are you already making excuses in advance for the season
Utah has yet to play?
DraperUteFanThere has been significant controversy surrounding many
major college football national champion selections.What can't
be denied is the national cachet BYU built during the five preceding seasons
leading up to BYU's national championship season that had already
established BYU's credibility - four Top 12 finishes, including finishing
#7/#7 in both polls in 1983, including road wins against two Top 15 teams.1979 - 11-1, #13/#12 - a missed chip-shot FG against WSU cost BYU an
undefeated season1980 - 12-1, #12/#121981 - 11-2, #13/#111982
- 8-41983 - 11-1, #7/#71984 - 13-0, #1/#11985 - 11-3,
#16/#17BYU finished the 1984 season on a 24-game winning streak and
did beat Air Force(8-4), on the road, a team that finished #24 in the final AP
poll, unranked only because the AP rankings only included the Top 20 in 1984.
@ DraperUteFan:First of all, I have never once said that Kyle was
not a good coach. I've always liked Kyle and was disappointed when he chose
to not coach at BYU. But are you really naive enough to think Kyle
doesn't currently have any concerns for his job? And why wouldn't
he... after contending for the basement of the PAC12 each year Utah has been in
it... and/or having ended each of the last 3 seasons with consecutively worse
conference records.... and/or not qualified for any bowl games for the last 2
years and counting?Apparently, you don't spend time reading the
comments of anyone except BYU fans. If you had, you'd know that many Ute
fans have made comments about Kyle needing to be concerned for his job and
guessing when he will be let go. Kyle has never once said (or even
insinuated) that he currently "loves the challenge" of his situation.
That's just you once again putting words in other people's mouths...
like you often do with BYU fans. To be honest, Kyle looks and sounds
quite concerned in most of his recent post-game interviews... as should he.
@ Elmer Fudd:Don't be silly enough to count on Utah beating BYU
every year. Yes, they've beat them the past 4 years (3 down to the last
play of the game), but BYU also beat Utah 3 of the preceding 4 years prior to
then. The only thing a knowledgeable fan will count on is that the
rivalry between the 2 schools will continue to go back and forth... like it has
done for most of a century. Only someone living in a bubble world would think
otherwise. If Utah beating BYU makes them the better team, then why
do all the national polls currently have BYU listed and ranked as the better
team? Those people who create the polls know the results of that single game,
but still feel BYU is the better team. Oh... that's right, the rest of the
football world looks at the entire season... unlike just a few Ute fans who
think that a single game counts for everything... and that it's impossible
for teams to get better or decline during the coarse of a season. Please
don't be that naive!Does that also mean Utah is a better team
Tators, you were the one who "guaranteed" Kyle would take Bronco's
schedule, I did not put words in your mouth. You wrote it.I said I
think Kyle likes the challenge, I didn't guarantee it, though I have heard
him say in interviews he likes the challenge of building a program that can
contend in the PAC 12. As I said, Kyle could get a job before Chris Hill even
finished saying "you're done" if it came to that, so his concerns
are primarily focused on helping improve a program he has spent so many years
building. He wants the program to succeed because Kyle takes pride in building
something, unlike Urban who just used Utah as another career stepping stone.I also didn't say he doesn't have concerns for his job, I said
you overstated those concerns. Of course he is concerned as he should be.
I'm not sure even Kyle knew how hard this transition would be. BYU was still 2-4 against BCS teams, including Virginia and Utah. All
I'm saying is why come on a Utah thread and pound your chests with those
An explanation of utah "fan" logic as it pertains to this discussion.Rankings only matter when they are used to determine SOS because in that
instance it says utah plays the nations hardest schedule and having to play the
nations hardest schedule gives utah "fans" an excuse for their teams
incredibly poor record.Rankings not only don't matter, but are
actually fatally flawed, when they show BYU to be a better team than utah.It is simple to understand, those that vote on the rankings don't
have a clue what they are doing when they rank BYU above utah but they are spot
on and flawless when using those rankings to give utah "fans" their
whiney excuse about their schedule being to hard.There you go, utah
"fan" logic explained. LOL!
@TatorsThe issue I have, is that you make it sound as if the Saragin
rankings are the end all, be all, of who is better than whom. Utah is ranked
#33, WSU #34 and OSU #36. All very close. So was Utah better than both WSU &
OSU? Of course not, they lost to them. I can admit that. You act as if Utah is
like Virginia and ranked #114 or something. Sorry, but when teams are ranked
very close to each other, the actual game played is the tie breaker. IMO In my mind, it's pretty weak sauce when you have to rely on some
poll to tell you that your team is better. BYU lost to Utah, out played, and out
scored. That's the bottom line.
@Duckhunter,BYU logic:6-5 Michigan in 1984 was a
national power in their undisputed "national championship game" and Utah
playing a 7-4 Pittsburgh was a patsy.BYU plays on ESPN2 late at
night, so they are the undisputed darling of the national media.Utah's "close games" are really just an illusion and in our minds
they really lost every game on their schedule. Everyone knows BYU
losing to Virgina, Utah, and Notre Dame was a fluke. The weather lost the
Virginia game, the referees lost the Utah game, and...well I'm sure there
is a reason we lost once again to Notre Dame.
@DraperUteBYU lost to Notre Dame because of the glare coming off of
the shinny helmets.
@draperute "fan"Fail. No one claimed michigan was a national
power, although they did say they were before injuries ravaged their team, no
claimed BYU was the "undisputed darling of the national media", no one
said utah's "close games are really just an illusion", and no one
said BYU losing to utah or notre dame was a "fluke", for that matter no
one said that about virginia either.You see you have to use things
people actually said and no one said any of that whereas utah "fans" do
tell us incessantly that the polls are always wrong about BYU being ranked
higher than utah but are always right when they use those same rankings to rate
utah's SOS. utah "fans" also claim rankings are right when they say
utah's recruiting classes are better than BYU's but they are all wrong
when they had BYU as the undisputed NCAA College Football National Champion.You see we get it, polls and rankings are always correct when they favor
utah and they are always wrong when they favor BYU. It is indisputable.
Here it is folks!!"Utah plays a much tougher schedule and BYU
plays a much weaker schedule. So you can't compare which team is better by
Fail Duck,Go back and read the thread start to finish.
Duck,In your words "No one said Michigan was a national power
althouth they did say they were before ravaged by injuries."We
get one sentence into your argument where the contradictions start. Did they or
didn't they? My favorite is the injury part. The Cougs allow themselves
the injury bug excuse, but not a Utah team who lost its starting QB for all
intent and purposes in week 7.My favorite Cougar logic..."nobody
said any of that."
......nor the final score.
All time record against Pac 12 teams: 85-138-6 .3712011: 4-5 .4442012: 3-6 .3332013: 2-7 .222Utes lost some very close
games this year. Nobody can say it will be any better next year. Until they
actually show it on the field...winning those close games...don't talk to
me about how they are not that far away.
If BYU was in the Pac-12 Utah would never get a win over them again.
DraperUte:Injuries can play a very important role in how well a team
performs over the season. It's one thing to lose starters, it's
another thing entirely to lose stars. I'm a Georgia fan and watched them
have a lot of success this year, being ranked as high as #6 in the country. Then
they lost STAR players like Malcom Mitchell, Todd Gurley, Kieth Marshall, etc.
losing your TEs isn't the same as losing guys like that. Georgia went from
being one of the best teams in the SEC to losing to Vanderbilt because of STARs
getting injured. Every team has injuries, it's when those injuries happen
to integral parts that the meltdown occurs. Remember, Wilson threw 6
interceptions against UCLA and was already going downhill BEFORE getting
injured. Michigan in 84 started as one of the Big 10 favorites and
in the NC discussion because of all the talent they had...they then proceeded to
lose the majority of their starters and STARS to injury. They started the season
with wins over Miami (#1 at the time) and Wisconsin but struggled thereafter.
Many of ttheir starters were back for the holiday bowl, but no one ever remember
It also never ceases to amaze me how good ute fans' memory is about
'84 Michigan but how their memory fails them when they consider that a win
over a ranked Michigan in 2008 was what propelled Utah into the rankings that
year. Michigan finished 3-9 in 2008 and was an awful team from the get go...not
even comparable to the talent of the 84 team.
Utah was very lucky to beat Colorado in the bottom feeders bowl. BYU would have
easily beaten Utah if they had played in November like that have for about a 100
years. Money and prestige aren't worth being the punching bag of the Pac
12.BYU did not perform up to expectations they were lucky to beat Reno. Utah
State had the easiest MWC schedule not playing SDSU and Fresno, Boise State is
probably the best team in the MWC but two heartbreaking loses by one point at
Fresno and in overtime at San Diego. This has been craziest year in college
football who would think Alabama would lose a fluke play?
CougsandDawgs, I enjoyed attending that 2008 contest against Michigan at the Big
House. A truly awesome experience as college football goes. The fans of
Michigan were first class all the way. It was an awesome experience. I
don't have any illusions about the fact that Michigan wasn't very good
that year, but any win in front of 104,000 fans at the Big House is a nice win.
the 2008 Wolverines certainly were not better than the Michigan team of 84. BYU had a great team in 84 and Michigan was a good team, but they
weren't close to the best team BYU could have played. It wasn't
BYU's fault, it was a broken college football system that continues to be
broken. Undefeated Boise State felt cheated when they played TCU in
the Fiesta bowl instead of a higher ranked and more prestigious opponent. The
system of college football failed BYU and the fans in 1984 and they continue to
fail fans with a broken system of awarding a national champion. Washington beat
Michigan 20-11 before the injuries to Michigan in 1984 and they ended the season
with only one loss. Too bad that wasn't the opponent for the NC that year.
DraperUte:I agree with everything you said...nice to have civilized
dialogue. I imagine being at the Big House is a rare treat for a fan of CFB,
just as it was for me when I attended the BYU vs ND game last year. Amazing
history and prestige surround ND stadium and like the Michigan fans you
experienced, ND fans are a classy bunch. Like you I wish CFB could do things the
right way because how they do it puts a damper on the accomplishments of ALL
programs not just Cinderella or midmajor programs...we can only hope that
someday they get it right. A 4 team playoff next year is a step in the right
direction, but I'd like to see that grow to 8 or even 16 teams.
DraperUteFanWashington and Nebraska were both invited to play
#1-ranked BYU in the Holiday Bowl. Unfortunately, neither accepted, or there
would be no debate concerning whether or not BYU deserved to be the 1984
National Champion.Either BYU would have lost, end of story; or BYU
would have won, also, end of story.Interestingly, BYU did play
Washington at the beginning of the 1985 season, and crushed the Huskies 31-3.
@ BYU9293Utah has beat BYU in the last 4 games and are 8 out of the
last 11. By scheduling BYU and Utah St for that matter Utah is already padding
their schedule. The Utes are looking to increase their foot print in recruiting.
They already play in Utah so why continue to play Utah St. and BYU other than to
pad their schedule for two easy win. Utah just received commitments
from three highly recruited players out of Louisiana and Florida thanks to
Dennis Erickson.They received a commitment form QB Donovan Isom Destrehan,
LA ranked 34 by ESPN also had offer from Miami, Brandon Snell WR, Miami FL
Ranked #12 WR by ESPN S Monte Seabrook Newberry, FL ESPN Ranked 92. Utah also
got commitments from 2 top 40 OT
Who am I sir?Cottonwood Heights, UTI salute you sir on a well
reasoned and well supported comment that required no degrading of another team
to make your point.Well stated, and I agree with you. For what
I'm a huge BYU fan. Don't like Utah. Let's be honest. However,
had Wilson not been hurt, this year looks quite a bit different for Utah. He
was playing fairly well until the injured hand, and bless his heart, I hope he
completely recovers from whatever is troubling him, and I hope he surprises
everyone and can return to the turf! He is a great competitor, a fun opponent,
and though I don't like "most" Ute fans, I have a family member
that is one, and I love him anyway! Go Cougs!
Only in the "Fantasy World" on the hill can someone say "the utes
aren't far away from contending" and do it with a straight face...If "not that far away" means 10 years or so then they may be
right, but I still doubt it... The majority of the talented recruits in this
conference come from California and the utes are not much of a consideration
over there (unless you have been passed up by the 4 California schools, the 2
Arizona schools, the 2 Oregon schools, the University of Washington and you are
not a Mormon being recruited by the Cougs)... Not only that... The coaching
simply isn't that good on the hill.
@whoamisirWow, that was quite a testimony of ute power and devotion
but unfortunately the reality of the actual utes W-L record was not clearly
defined... (i.e. the number "1" which represents the number of
conference teams that the utes have beaten over 3 years who actually had a
winning conference record; or the number "0" which represents the number
of bowl games that the utes have gone to the majority of the time that they have
been in the conference).The ending of the post:"In
my mind, this season was one of the most enjoyable ever. And I thank the
team!" was a choice statement. If you really meant it you are going to be
very happy because I suspect the utes will produce many, many, many seasons with
similar results to the one they have just completed.
Talk about rankings? How about switch the schedules of the 2 schools and see
where they would be ranked. Utah 10-2, BYU 3-9. Utah would be looking at a top
25 ranking and BYU would be 50, 60 spots below.
Oh scots... If the schedules would have been reversed the Cougs would have been
bowl eligible and the utes would have still failed to qualify for a bowl... They
would have finished 5- 7 with wins over Idaho State, maybe Virginia, BYU, Utah
State, and maybe Middle Tenessee... They would have gotten clobbered by Texas,
Boise State, Wisconsin, Notre Dame all of whom they have never beaten... Plus
the best money would also say that they would lose to Houston in Houston and
Nevada in Reno, and Georgia Tech at home...The Cougs would have
beaten Weber State, Utah State, Colorado, Washington State, Arizona, and both
Oregon State and Arizona State at home plus probably beaten USC (at the time
that Utah played them) and UCLA at home (recently we have owned the Bruins)...
The only losses would have come to Utah (a fluke) and maybe Stanford and
Oregon... The Cougs would have finished 9-3 and would have probably ended up at
the Holiday Bowl or the Alamo Bowl... But if it were to be the Fight Hunger Bowl
against the U of W who the utes have never beaten, we would finish the season
with 10 wins... and a top 20 rating.
Poyman, that is the most optimistic portrayal I think I've ever seen. BYU
beating Oregon State (something they couldn't do two years ago), ASU (the
speed of ASU would have tested the Cougs and lets not forget, ASU beat
Wisconsin), USC at the LA Coliseum (something the Cougs have virtually never
done), and UCLA (the recently you refer to is not since Mora has been there but
when Neuheisel was coach just before losing his job). Arizona and Washington
State would have been no give me's either.If you had some logic
in your opinion, we might be able to take you seriously. The Cougs are just
over .500 against the PAC 12 during the Bronco era and often times that has been
in the LV bowl which always meant that PAC team was about 6th place. The other
games in recent history against the PAC have not been against Oregon, Stanford,
Poyman, I don't know where you get the "best money" argument, but
Middle Tennessee would have been a W for Utah and I would have given Utah 2 of
your final 3 as victories (most likely Nevada and Georgia Tech). Utah would have had roughly the same record as BYU playing that schedule.You vastly underestimate how difficult playing in the PAC 12 would be
for BYU week in and week out. A 9-3 record is beyond optimism it is bordering on
something else. In essence what you are saying at 9-3 is that the Cougs would
have been 7-2 against the PAC 12 in one of the strongest years the PAC 12 has
ever been (4 top 25 teams and many others hovering near the top 25). You are saying that Taysom Hill, who struggled all season when forced to pass,
would have beaten Heisman candidates Payton and Hundely, some of the top ranked
defenses in the country (ASU, USC, and Arizona), then had the gall to say
"maybe" BYU would have lost to Oregon and Stanford?My heck,
why don't you just grant the Cougs a 12-1 record and BCS buster in your
"season of perfection."
@ poyman Only in the "Fantasy World" on the hill can someone say
"the utes aren't far away from contending" and do it with a
straight face...I know you’re a Coug fan and your blue colored
glasses are fogging your awareness of what is really taking place up on the
hill. Utah was in every game that they played in this year, most of the
outcome came down to the final play of the game. It was indicative of the scores
of each game Utah was right there. Utah just does not have the depth that
most PAC-12 teams have. Things were progressing really well on the offensive
side of the ball until Scott, Wilson, Murphy and Tonga become injured this
limited the Utes offensive production. They lost their top WR Kenneth Scott to a
broken ankle and with no other burners on the outside it allowed most teams with
athleticism to double Dre for most of the game which made the next options
Fitzgerald and Denham who could not get any seperation from the DB's.If
Wilson, Kenneth, Murphy and Tonga had remained healthy, the Utes win at least
three of those close games.
I'm not a BYU fan, but the Utah fans who have to put pac 12 stickers on
everything they own because they are still battling the inferiority complex
deserve the bottom of the conference every year. Next years stickers will have
a spot to put the utes pac 12 record.
I totally agree with this article. Anyone that watched the Utes play in 2011 and
2013 can CLEARLY tell that this was/is the better team. Our whole offense that
year was predicated on giving it to John White IV and running it up the middle.
That isn't even close to the case anymore. I would say that our tight ends,
when they are healthy are better than our running back core, and Kelvin York and
Lucky Radley were at least as good as JW IV. The defense is better too. We
aren't giving up 50-60 points a game anymore. We are REALLY close to being
a contender. What we need are slightly more experienced receivers, a better
secondary, better QB decision making, and to reduce the turnover margin. If this
team had a positive turnover margin this year they would be playing for win #10
this holiday season.
Crow:I agree with some of what you said but I think you're trying to
paint a rosier picture of Utah's season than is actually the case. I agree
that poymans evaluation was pretty generous toward BYU, but yours wasn't
far off either. Utah played 4 road games in the PAC 12 this year and lost ALL of
them by double digits...and a couple of them could have been worse. Next year
Utah plays FIVE road games instead of only four in conference, and their OOC
includes a trip to Michigan. It's hard to objectively state that this
should give ute fans any optimism. Utah's road woes aren't going away
over night, and my guess is that Stanford will get even with the utes in the
friendly confines of their house. 4-8 looks like a pretty good estimate, and I
doubt Utah gets ANY wins on the road next year, with the possible exception of