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Letter: Honest president

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  • No One Of Consequence West Jordan, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 12:52 a.m.

    "I believe that he is a man of the highest personal honesty and integrity."

    I cannot say that I share that belief but I can say that he does tell us what he intends to do. Sometimes boldly, as in his pledge to fundamentally transform America. Other times he speaks inversely; up is down, more is less. You can keep your insurance means you will lose your insurance, and I'm looking out for the middle class means I'm here to crush the middle class.

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 3:41 a.m.

    He either lied or he is totally clueless, you need to choose because it is one or the other. I guess it could be both.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Nov. 15, 2013 4:28 a.m.

    Mr Burt,

    At best, Obama played fast and loose with his words. Where does the line between "mistake" and "lie" get crossed?

    To our partisan friends, their side makes "mistakes". The other side "lies"

    What I will say, is that Obama is a typical politician. I have yet to see one that did not "lie".

    Politicians make campaign promises that they can not or do not keep.
    They exaggerate their ability to affect change.
    They tell us what they think we want to hear.
    They will say anything to get elected.

    And here is the real shocker. Both R and D do it. And they are pretty consistent.

    Now we can argue about degrees, but that does not really matter. There is not much difference overall between R and D candidates.

    And another shocker. Romney fits into that category. His campaign had its share of "truthiness"

    In the famous words of George Costanza - "It's not a lie if you believe it"

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    Nov. 15, 2013 7:01 a.m.

    Many large social reform projects start off slowly. According to an article in the Washington Post the wildly successful Romneycare had a mere 123 people sign up the first month!

    In ten years when the ACA has become an established fact of American life the current rocky start and hysteria will be largely forgotten.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 8:02 a.m.

    @Richard Burt "...I do not believe that President Obama intentionally lied."

    Really? The president didn't know what was in his signature legislation? One of the premises of Obamacare was that younger, healthier Americans would be moved off their current plans onto the exchanges, where they would pay higher rates to help carry the older, sicker Americans and those newly-insured. Obamacare had no hope of working unless tens of millions of Americans changed their plans.

    Yet Obama was saying, "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan. Period."

    If the CEO of a company had represented one of his products the way Obama represented Obamacare, he would be doing time in prison. It was outright fraud.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Nov. 15, 2013 8:14 a.m.

    Amen Nate!

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 8:20 a.m.

    All presidents lie.
    It is to what extent, and what out come, that makes the difference.

    Not all lies are equal.

    Some men even apologize, though I have yet to find an apology from a conservative, only their asking others to do so.

    Joe blow said it better.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 8:28 a.m.

    Nate said: If the CEO of a company had represented one of his products the way Obama represented Obamacare, he would be doing time in prison. It was outright fraud."

    Lockheed built 100 F-22 fighters -- 6 years behind schedule, and $2 Billion in cost over runs.
    Lockheed is now building the F-35 fighter -- 8 years behind schedule and already $4 Billion in cost over runs.
    (borrowed from another post)

    Jail for CEO's... now that's a tall tale.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 8:34 a.m.

    It's just bad timing.

    I think the ACA was designed to fail. It was just not intended to fail this quickly. It was intended to kinda work for awhile (to show how good the Government can manage healthcare) and then eventually fail when the insurance companies could no longer afford to pay the flood of claims and still charge and affordable premium.

    It was intended to be able to blame the eventual failure of the system on private insurance companies... not the government website. And the Government would be there to save us from the sky-rocketing insurance premiums.

    It's just unfortunate that the botched website launch is almost destroying the system and exposing the Government's inept nature before they can set themselves up as the heroes there to save us from the evil insurance companies.

    It may still work IF they can get the website fixed quick and get enough people signed up to put the planned pressure on the system needed to cause it to burst at the seems (cloward-piven strategy).

    But there's no going back Republicans. The majority ALREADY feel dependent on the government for healthcare. You can't take it away.

  • GZE SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 8:45 a.m.

    "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan. Period."

    I believe the President truly wants to help Americans. I believe when he made this statement, it did not occur to him that people would want to keep policies that do not cover what he believes is basic medical care. There are many who believe government does not have the right to set those standards.

    And remember, the Affordable Health Care Act is nowehere near what the President originally envisioned. He compromised and changed things repeatedly to try and get Republican support. What we ended up with is not what the President wanted.

    Perhaps he lied; perhaps he was just naive.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 9:10 a.m.

    How about when barack said:

    "I will cut the deficit in half in my first term or I will be a one term president"

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Nov. 15, 2013 9:19 a.m.

    As I am not a mind-reader, I don't know if Mr. Obama is guilty of intentionally lying or not. His statements about keeping our health insurance are true for 97% of Americans like me. The other 3% were getting suckered anyway; they'll get a better deal in the long run. In any case, maybe 97% true isn't good enough, but it's pretty close.

  • watchman Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 9:23 a.m.

    "I believe that he is a man of the highest personal honesty and integrity."
    This is hardly worth commenting on, but Richard, where do you get your national news to arrive at this assumption?

  • dung beetle Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 9:47 a.m.

    So, was this man of great integrity just confused when he repeatedly told us that if we like our health plan we can keep it? Or was he so ill informed about the content of his signature legislation that he didn't realize he was lying? Or is he so narcissistic that he didn't think anyone would dare call him on his lie?

    Given his track record of lying about almost everything he does, it seems like the narcissism explanation is the most likely.

    One thing's sure, contrary to the author of this letter, cancellation of non-ACA compliant insurance policies and the website disaster can only be blamed on Obama, certainly not insurance companies, who were doing what he told them to do. Blaming health care providers is delusional.

  • wmaden Bluffdale, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 10:02 a.m.

    Honesty & Integrity ?? I question that.
    Actually, what was so bad about the current insurance program we have been using for years anyway?? Poor people always gets a pass, they always will. There are true poor people, but a lot of them choose that lifestyle also because of their actions or just plain laziness. I know it sounds harsh, but so is reality.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 10:00 a.m.

    Frankly, I don't believe any politician is very honest. Even a former LDS stake president who spent years asking people if they had been honest in all their dealings couldn't escape several "pants on fire" ratings during his campaigns for president. And some of his statements (the 47 percent whopper comes to mind) were absolute classics. So President Obama is not as unique as his detractors are trying to make him out to be.

    I tend to not pay as much attention to campaign claims and promises as I do to the fundamental philosophy candidates espouse. If I had felt that Romney's view of economics (even lacking the specifics he would never give) would have been good for the country, I probably would have voted for him. But a repackaged version of trickle-down economics was all he could come up with, and that's not what we need. So I voted for Obama, and I haven't been sorry for one second. The alternative was too frightening. Still is.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 10:02 a.m.

    @Irony Guy "His statements about keeping our health insurance are true for 97% of Americans like me."

    I told you yesterday why this statement is false, and I'll tell you again: when the employer mandates go into effect, another wave of insurance plans will be canceled. The Obama administration estimated that 51% of Americans will be affected, and possibly 69% on the high end. (Federal Register, vol. 75, no. 116, Thursday, June 17, 2010)

    This is according to Obama's own projections, published three years ago. The cancelations are an essential feature of Obamacare.

    @Happy Valley Heretic "behind schedule"

    It's about much more than being behind schedule. The distinction is this: Lockheed is building the product they said they would build.

    Obama sold us a product with different features than the ones he said it would have. And he did it knowingly.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Nov. 15, 2013 10:15 a.m.

    So,
    GW Bush committing 5,000 Americans to die, 75,000 wounded, and spending $4 Trillion unfunded dollars was a "mistake",
    and
    Pres. Obama telling under-insured Americans that they can keep their sub-standard policies was "lie".

    Ya,
    I see them as a double-standard, rubber rulered, partisan hypocrites as well....

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Nov. 15, 2013 10:20 a.m.

    350 Million Americans.
    2 Million get their insurance dropped.

    That's less the 0.06%

    so,
    the President was 99.9943% trueful.

    I don't know about you guys,
    but I'm good with those kinds of stats.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 10:22 a.m.

    "highest personal honesty and integrity"? You believe that about your President? The man who used the IRS to harass groups opposed to his agenda and even released confidential tax information of individuals? The man whose campaign insinuated that Mitt Romney was responsible for a woman's death from cancer? The man who delayed the implementation of his signature law until after he was safely re-elected because he knew what was going to happen? The man who has constantly attacked his political opponents and completely disrespected them and given no credence to their positions? The man who attacked a Supreme Court decision in front of the whole country in a State of the Union address? The man who sold himself as a uniter and has done nothing but seek to turn Americans against each other through class warfare and identity politics? The man who promised to "go through the Federal Budget line by line"?
    I could go on and on and never change the opinion of the President's devout followers so it's pointless. All I can say is wait until the employer mandate kicks in and see how many people lose their policies then.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Nov. 15, 2013 10:37 a.m.

    I was actully HOPING for my policy with UnitedHealthCare was dropped!

    I want one of those newer, better, cheaper, and more comprehensive plans being offered.

    At least now I can safely look for better employment and not feel "stuck" where I'm at,
    since I no longer need to fear or worry about ever again being "DENIED" coverage due to my wife's "pre-existing" condition (fibomyalgia - an very mild form of arthritis).

    Insurance Companies used every single excuse in the world to drop anyone but Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (i.e., people who never got sick, grew old, got hurt, or died).

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 15, 2013 10:39 a.m.

    "However, I do not believe that President Obama intentionally lied."

    Politicians don't lie. Theirs is the prerogative to say anything that will get them votes regardless of how far removed from the truth it turns out to be.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 10:42 a.m.

    @Kent C. DeForrest

    Re: "If I had felt that Romney's view of economics would have been good for the country, I probably would have voted for him"...

    oh really... I doubt that.

    Romney's understanding of economics probably doesn't even compare to yours.

    You are aware that the way he because wealthy is from people/companies coming to him for economic advice to turning their failing companies around... right? How many people have offered YOU money to help them turn their company around?

    But of course YOUR understanding of "economics" probably trumps his. And you can smugly assume that you know more about it and know his plan would never work.

    A lot of people think Capitalism (aka trickle-down economics) is doomed to fail. But you need to know that it wasn't invented by Reagan or Romney. It's the system we've had in this country from the beginning and still have today. And just because it had a few bad years in almost 300 good years... doesn't make it a failure.

    You may think you know more about economics than Romney... but I think he knows a little about it too.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 11:11 a.m.

    After his lying, spying and denying on an hourly basis for 5 years (as president - not to mention the time before): How can anyone still defend Obama?

    It is really quite disturbing that there are people who still cannot (or willfully refuse to) see through this Orwellian nightmare of a presidency.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Nov. 15, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    I too believe someone with Romneys business acumen could have made a great president.

    Unfortunately, Romney was not a strong enough personality to stand up to the far right (Christie possibly?).
    He would have put his fact based approach on the back burner to appease the party base.

    Businessmen typically let facts dictate their actions. Politicians are more swayed by campaign contributions and party opinion.

    I am looking for a moderately fiscal conservative without the far right social agenda.
    And without the Palinesk knack for inflammatory rhetoric designed to do nothing but whip the base into a frenzy.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 11:17 a.m.

    @No One of Consequence
    "You can keep your insurance means you will lose your insurance"

    The vast majority of people can keep their insurance. While 15 million is a lot that couldn't, it's a small percentage of the American population compared to those that can.

    On a totally unrelated note, I love The Princess Bride reference username.

    @2bits
    "I think the ACA was designed to fail."

    No. Nobody who supported it would ever do that. It doesn't make sense. Politicians are not going to self-immolate while destroying their cause for healthcare reform. If you think it's some way to get single payer, that's not how we would go about doing that at all. We want a public option or Medicare buy-in put into the exchanges, let it become the most popular plan, and have it develop that way.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 11:18 a.m.

    @Counter Intelligence
    "After his lying, spying and denying on an hourly basis for 5 years (as president - not to mention the time before): How can anyone still defend Obama?"

    He doesn't lie as often as you think, Republicans lie more often than you think, and I very much approve of the things Obama supports compared to the things Republicans support (not all the time, but the vast majority of the time this is the case).

  • LDS Cedar City, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 11:32 a.m.

    Mr. Burt, I commend you for your support of the President and giving him the benefit of the doubt. Presidents face immensely complex challenges. I'm sure President Obama was embroiled in a number of serious issues nationally and internationally. He likely decided months ago to leave the ACA startup to his cabinet and staff, so that he could focus on the pressing problems ahead.

    I speak regarding all presidents. They all have a daunting workload that would overwhelm any of us. I suggest we change our doubts or criticism to thinking positively about our president, whoever he or she may be.

  • 2 bit Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 11:33 a.m.

    atl134,
    If this plan fails it would not hurt Democrats. In their calculation it would put them in even a BETTER situation (because the people would be BEGGING for the single-payer system they really want).

    Remember Obama himself and many of his closest advisers have been recorded many times saying this is just the first step and it will probably take a decade or more to get to the single-payer system they REALLY want in the United States.

    But it takes a crisis... to get Americans motivated enough to change. A crisis like the current system going down in flames. A crisis like insurance premiums going through the roof (when insurance companies face the inevitable need to raise premiums, or find a way to not pay claims, or go out of business).

    Democrats would not self-immolate... they would be seen as the knights in shining armor swooping in with their single-payer plan to SAVE us from the evil insurance companies that have failed us (because the government forced them to fail us).

    That's just my theory. But I guess it's also possible that Obama doesn't REALLY want what he said he wants.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 12:33 p.m.

    When Pres. Bush repeated misinformation from the intelligence comment he was called a liar. When Pres. Obama repeats "improper promises" as the NYT calls it, he is no different. In 2010 Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY) proposed a bill that would eliminate these cancellations of insurance policies. It was voted down by every Democrat including those who are pleading ignorance and asking the president to cover for them. That is mendacity. Yes, President Obama is a good man, but desperate people can do desperate things.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 12:43 p.m.

    To "Richard Burt" if you believe that Obama is honest, then I have a bridge to sell you after you help a Nigerian Prince that is a friend of mine get some money brought to the US.

    The fact is that if Obama was telling the truth, then he is the most incompetent leader the US has ever had. He didn't know about this, Fast and Furious, the IRS, NSA, or any of the other scandals that have hit his adiministration until the news started to cover it.

    So, which is it? Is obama truthful and incompetent, or a liar?

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 12:48 p.m.

    4601
    "When Pres. Bush repeated misinformation from the intelligence community he was called a liar. When Pres. Obama repeats "improper promises" as the NYT calls it, he is no different.."

    It is very different: Bush had faulty intelligence that dated back to the previous administration; Clinton. Obama knew that millions would lose their existing coverage years ago but kept saying people could keep it, knowing it was not true. Bush may not have been a good president - but he certainly was not the moral backwater than is the Obama administration.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 1:35 p.m.

    CounterIntelligence says:

    "Bush had faulty intelligence"

    That is absolute nonsense. Bush had up-to-date intelligence on Iraq. He repeatedly ignored what he didn't want to hear, and actually OUTED a CIA operative when her husband publicly refuted Bush's "intelligence" on the subject of Iraq.

  • Miss Piggie Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 15, 2013 1:55 p.m.

    @LDS: "I'm sure President Obama was embroiled in a number of serious issues nationally and internationally."

    I guess what you're saying is... Obama can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Either that or he's surrounded himself with alotta incompetent staff.

    @2 bit: "Remember Obama himself... [has] been recorded many times saying this is just the first step and it will probably take a decade or more to get to the single-payer system..."

    We already have a single payer system(s)... Called Medicare, Medicaid, Chip, Veterans health, etc. Just expand (and combine) these programs to cover everybody. These democrats including their leaders (Reid, Pelosi, Obama, Bit-me) are not that clever, apparently.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 15, 2013 2:11 p.m.

    @Ranch: "Bush had up-to-date intelligence on Iraq. He repeatedly ignored what he didn't want to hear, and actually OUTED a CIA operative when her husband publicly refuted Bush's 'intelligence' on the subject of Iraq."

    So, why did a bunch of Democrats in the Senate, including John Kerry, Hilary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein, and Joe Bit-me also vote for the Iraq war, huh? They can't claim being uninformed since they had the same intelligence reports that the pres had.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 2:24 p.m.

    2 bits,

    If you want to know more about how Romney made his money, I'd suggest David Stockman's article "Mitt Romney: The Great Deformer." He goes into detail about several companies Romney drained during his time at Bain. This is based on Wall Street Journal investigations. Stockman, by the way, is a Republican, former director of OMB under Reagan, and, like Romney, a corporate raider (now called, euphemistically, private equity investor). So he knows a bit about the business, as it were. He was also indicted for fraud but not prosecuted.

    As for me, I didn't say I know more about economics than Romney, but I do question how much he knows about macroeconomics. I believe all I indicated was that I disagreed with his view of economics, which amounts to little more than a rebaked version of trickle-down. Of course, that's all the Republicans have been able to come up with for 30 years. Because it doesn't work and has a very bad rap, they keep renaming it and repackaging it. But it's their basic philosophy. Trickle-up economics is really what it should be called.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 15, 2013 2:50 p.m.

    re:CounterIntell
    "Bush had faulty intelligence that dated back to the previous administration;"

    Bush had NEW intelligence. UN Weapons Inspectors went back into Iraq in Nov. 4 mons before the war and were in the process of doing inspections when Bush decided to invade.

    Politicians lie, exaggerate, mislead, obfuscate. Every single one of them, including former LDS Stk President Romney. Anybody running for office--including elementary student body presidents etc. tell us what they think we want to hear.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 3:33 p.m.

    GZE: "And remember, the Affordable Health Care Act is nowehere near what the President originally envisioned. He compromised and changed things repeatedly to try and get Republican support. What we ended up with is not what the President wanted."

    What on Earth are you talking about? Obama did NOTHING to try and get GOP support for his bill. He got it passed without a single GOP vote since his party controlled both houses of Congress when it passed. He refused to allow any debate or GOP input on the bill as well.

    Since then he has refused to accept even the most minor change to the bill by any Republican. He shut down the government rather than compromise even an inch on the bill.

    Your statement is just as false as the other things we have heard from this president.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 15, 2013 3:37 p.m.

    re:CounterIntell, wrz
    "Bush had faulty intelligence that dated back to the previous administration;"

    Bush had NEW intelligence. UN Weapons Inspectors went back into Iraq in Nov. 4 (AFTER the vote),
    4 mons before Bush decided to invade. UN Weapons Inspectors had requested more time to complete inspections prior to Bush sending troops.

    The Iraq War Resolution encouraged and supported "diplomatic efforts" but allowed Bush to use military means if he determined it necessary and appropriate.

    Politicians lie, exaggerate, mislead, obfuscate. Every single one of them, including Romney. Anybody running for office--including elementary student body presidents etc. tell us what they think we want to hear.

    For the record:
    Hillary Clinton's 2002 statement accompanying her vote on the Iraq War Resolution:
    "So Mr. President, for all its appeal, a unilateral attack, while it cannot be ruled out, on the present facts is not a good option."

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 3:38 p.m.

    atl134 said "He doesn't lie as often as you think"

    Awe come on these same folks who defend the position of he's always lying are also the same ones who say he's Not an American Citizen, He's a Muslim and that he's a socialist, communist, fascist, dictator, liberal, who hates America and is trying to destroy our country. Oh yeah he ate popcorn while he watched (not) terrorists kill the ambassador in libya or he killed him personally, it's hard to keep track.

    So I guess when I hear the regular "You Lie" cheer team saying Obama lies it doesn't mean much. (cry wolf)

    I do believe he was speaking to the majority for whom he is correct, even if he was aware that 0.06% of those
    with garbage for coverage would have to change, that is hardly the same as lying to start a war.

    Ranch is correct, Bush had very good intelligence info, but he and Haliburton I mean Dick had also had already made up their collective mind before they started the war.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 15, 2013 3:40 p.m.

    "If the CEO of a company had represented one of his products the way Obama represented Obamacare, he would be doing time in prison. It was outright fraud."

    Really Nate? How many CEOs of mortgage companies that have now had billions in penalties levied against them for lying to the buyers of mortgages.... how many of them are in Jail. How many CEOs of companies that missed their own revenue projections are currently in jail.... care to list all these out?

    Sure.... the bumper sticker jargon sounds cute.... but your statement wasn't any more honest - name me an executive put in doing time for misrepresenting a product... Do 4 out of 5 dentist really recommend a single brand of tooth paste? Every time you turn on your TV you get hundreds of misleading or out and out false statements. Lets do a little reality check here.

    Balmer of Microsoft said the iPad was just a fad... just another PC.... nothing Microsoft needed to worry about. He went to jail when?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 4:08 p.m.

    @2bit
    "If this plan fails it would not hurt Democrats."

    Obama's approval rating fell half a dozen points the past month. How in the world are Democrats NOT hurt if Obamacare fails?

    "In their calculation it would put them in even a BETTER situation "

    As a Democrat, my calculation is that if Obamacare falls apart we might lose the Senate in 2014 and if we eventually lose the White House in 2016 and Republicans repeal Obamacare we won't get health reform again for another generation. That's not a better situation.

    "they would be seen as the knights in shining armor swooping in with their single-payer plan to SAVE us from the evil insurance companies that have failed us "

    Absolutely not. Obamacare would be seen as the failure and Democrats would be blamed for putting it in place. It is quite literally what we are seeing right now, Obamacare having website issues, and Democrats getting blamed.

  • deseret pete robertson, Wy
    Nov. 15, 2013 4:33 p.m.

    Red state Pride : I agree with you completely -- However we sort of have to give him a pass on the line by line budget thing -since he never has had a budget yet.

  • Crusader Layton, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 4:39 p.m.

    I like my health plan and I am keeping it, our President did not lie to me.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 6:47 p.m.

    I'm coming down on the side of the President being totally clueless. He's making Carter look like a rocket scientist.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 6:51 p.m.

    Open Minded Mormon, using your logic, we can blame JFK for 59,000 deaths from Viet Nam, Truman for however many for Korea, FDR for millions in WW II (including those who died when the two A-Bombs were dropped), etc, etc etc. Get off of your high horse.

    Oh by the way, I know Truman authorized the use of the A-Bombs but they were developed while FDR was president. What's worse? 5000 plus deaths in Afganistan and Iraq or the many many thousands killed an millions maimed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? From a moral stand point, I'd go for the A-bombs.

  • Sven Morgan, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 8:14 p.m.

    @Crusader: "I like my health plan and I am keeping it, our President did not lie to me."

    Crusader, do you receive health insurance through your employer? If you do, you will indeed lose coverage when the Employer Mandate kicks in, in 2014. What's even more disturbing than Obama's ease in lying, is the acceptance of these lies by his followers.

  • E Sam Provo, UT
    Nov. 15, 2013 9:10 p.m.

    Excellent letter. Sorry it was attacked so thoroughly.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 16, 2013 12:46 a.m.

    Ranch
    Truthseeker

    Yes Bush had new intelligence that he shared with congress and Kerry and Hillary voted for the Iraq war - so they must be liars too - and they went to work for Obama

    Ironic isn't it?

    How can you continue to rationalize the ethics of Obama when the truth is so blatant?

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Nov. 16, 2013 7:19 a.m.

    For what it's worth, President Obama (even accepting the allegations of dishonesty, which I don't) is one heck of a lot more honest and ethical than his predecessor.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 16, 2013 7:41 a.m.

    Ranch
    Truthseeker
    You claim Bush had new intelligence so he DID lie - yet that intelligence did not prove anything and was shared with Congress before they voted to go to war. That Congress included Hillary Clinton and other Democrats voting yes.
    Obama still was telling people lies long after he knew they were lies.

    Continued defense of this administration is laughable

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 16, 2013 7:46 a.m.

    @Flashback
    Kearns, UT

    Open Minded Mormon, using your logic, we can blame JFK for 59,000 deaths from Viet Nam, Truman for however many for Korea, FDR for millions in WW II (including those who died when the two A-Bombs were dropped), etc, etc etc. Get off of your high horse.

    ======

    Difference is GW Bush "LIED" about Weapons of Mass destruction in Iraq, and went in anyway.
    and further more; Iraq did NOTHING to provoke a fight with the United States -- NOTHING!
    We were the aggressors, period.

    And being LDS -- there is something in our scriptures and doctrine that tells us what God says something about the justifications of going to Wars -- and something about those going in the Defense, vs. those going on the Offensive.

    WE were wrong, and as Commander-in-Chief, GW Bush's administration lying to justifying was HIS fault.

    Here-s a rub.
    Syria HAD chemical WMDs, Syria actually USED Chemical WMDs, Syria actually TARGETED civilians -- Pres. Obama wanted to attack Syria (remember), but WE the People still struggling with GW Bush's lies, and $4 Trllion wars -- did BOTHING to help.

    Bush Lied, People died.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Nov. 16, 2013 10:39 a.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil "name me an executive put in doing time for misrepresenting a product"

    Bernie Madoff.

    Your point is...what? CEO's never go to prison when they commit fraud? CEO's are frequently sent to prison for fraud. CBS's top 10 list includes Jeff Skilling, Bernie Ebbers, Dennis Kozlowski, John Rigas, Sanjay Kumar, Walter Forbes, Joe Nacchio, Richard Scrushy, Sam Waksal, and Martin Grass. We have a 200-word limit here, but anyone can use Google as well as I can.

    Maybe you're saying it's okay for Obama to commit fraud, because other people sometimes get off the hook for committing fraud? What kind of behavior are you trying to defend, exactly?

    Obamacare lies are just as much lies as any other lie.

    @LDS Liberal

    Your attempt to change the subject is noted. It has failed. Barack Obama is the president now, and he lied to America about Obamacare. "Period."

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 16, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    Hillary Clinton 11/16/2007 Iraq War Resolution:
    "Over eleven years have passed since the UN called on Saddam Hussein to rid himself of weapons of mass destruction as a condition of returning to the world community. Time and time again he has frustrated and denied these conditions. This matter cannot be left hanging forever with consequences we would all live to regret. War can yet be avoided, but our responsibility to global security and to the integrity of United Nations resolutions protecting it cannot. I urge the President to spare no effort to secure a clear, unambiguous demand by the United Nations for unlimited inspections.

    So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed."

    Nov 18, 2002
    UN Inspectors return to Iraq

    March 20, 2003
    Iraq War begins

  • RBB Sandy, UT
    Nov. 16, 2013 1:57 p.m.

    Actually I think I would prefer that he lied. At least then I would be confident that President Obama has a clue about what is going on in his administration. In every scandal - Fast and Furious, Bengazhi, NSA spying, Syria - he always acts like his is totally surprised by everything. If he did not lie, then he is completely clueless. Yes, I have little doubt Hillary will lie to us - but at least I am confident that she will know what is going on. When a real emergency hits, we have to have a president who has a clue.

  • RBB Sandy, UT
    Nov. 16, 2013 2:47 p.m.

    "Open Minded" Mormon, you might want to recheck your facts and your math.

    1) 315 Million Americans - not 350 million
    2) nearly 3 million POLICIES canceled (not 2 million people).
    3) The average household is 2.59 people as of 2010. This means about 8 million people are losing their coverage.
    4) So 2.5 percent of American are losing their health insurance not 0.06% as claimed.

    After being told that if they like their insurance they can keep it, 8 million people have a right to be upset.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 11:39 a.m.

    "I believe that he is a man of the highest personal honesty and integrity"

    Usually when you make a statement like this you provide some evidence to back up your belief and this post provides no evidence whatsoever....only partisan wishing. Yes I understand Obama was "supposed to be" transparent and honest and non partisan and a man that united the country but the evidence shows clearly the man is very dishonest, partisan, UN-transparent and polarizing and we judge those statements on actual DEEDS performed over the past 4 years. Lets review....

    1. Fast n Furious gun running lies.
    2. Benghazi incompetence , lies and coverup
    3. Syrian incompetence and outright lies of red lines being drawn
    4. IRS intimidation of conservative groups prior to the 2012 election
    5. Obamacare - if you like your insurance you can keep it lies.

    Obama was supposed to be the liberal savior and he has turned out to be perhaps the man that destroys the liberal - big government - socialist American dream. The man is considered by nearly 70% of America to be DISHONEST and that distinction has been earned by numerous outright lies told for political gain by Barack.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 11:47 a.m.

    re:GZE

    We know from reporting done by the Wallstreet Journal in 2010 that indeed the White House did know that people would NOT be able to keep their insurance and that was by design. The proposal inside the White House was then made to go forward with the LIE because without that LIE Obamacare and Obama himself would be doomed for the 2012 re-election.

    It is hard to swallow for liberals that their liberal super hero could be such an outright liar - cold and uncaring - but now even Democrats in congress are admitting the lie and they are doing this because they know defending the "you can keep your insurance" statement is clear and indefensible and they have to face re-election themselves in less than a year.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 18, 2013 1:41 p.m.

    Implications for Hilary Clinton in 2016. First of all Hilary endorsed the Obamacare LIE from the start and she is joined at the hip with that. No backsliding away and parsing words. If Obamacare fails (as it is failing currently) Hilary is doomed. Secondly Benghazi. As we finally start to get some testimony back from eye witnesses we are finding that the secretary of state (Clinton) was repeatedly warned of terror attacks and she did nothing...for years!!! She DENIED requests for beefed up security. She DENIED requests from US military to assist the embassy under attack and she finished it all off with a string of LIES. I personally think Obamacare alone is going to DOOM Hilary - America has had it with the lies and deception from this liberal administration and like Nixon found out after Watergate - trust that is lost cannot be regained.

    Interesting to note that had Barack lied as the CEO of a company about a product launch like he did with Obamacare he could and would be sued by shareholders and then held liable in a court of law for corporate FRAUD.

  • Turtle Owasso, OK
    Nov. 18, 2013 2:39 p.m.

    @Ranch
    "That is absolute nonsense. Bush had up-to-date intelligence on Iraq. He repeatedly ignored what he didn't want to hear, and actually OUTED a CIA operative when her husband publicly refuted Bush's "intelligence" on the subject of Iraq."

    So tell us, why were there loads of Democrats before the Iraq war who were saying the same thing that Bush was? Many of these people changed their story when the next election cycle came, but the problem is we have video tape. These people are so inept to think that we forget what they say...

  • Fan Base Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 19, 2013 1:29 p.m.

    That's just stupid logic to say he was telling the truth to the majority of Americans so he's truthful. As long as I tell the truth a majority of the time to the majority of people, I'm honest, regardless of how bad the lie was to the minority and regardless of the consequences to them?