For a proper comparison, the question was never "Will byu be able to get
good players" but "How will the WCC impact recruiting" The
difference being, what would recruiting be like if BYU were in the MWC or Pac 12
still? Would it be better, worse, or the exact same? If BYU were in the Big 12
or Pac 12 would they have been able to land Jabari? As far as the
Gonzaga point, I think that does a disservice to the argument. Coach Few has
done a tremendous job, but he does not get the same type of recruits(GENERALLY)
that Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Michigan State, and Lousville.
He's done a lot with the talent he's gotten to be sure. But to say
that Gonzaga is good and therefore conference affiliation doesn't impact
recruiting isn't true. Gonzaga rarely beats these others schools for
recruits. And the question is, how much better would Coach Few and Gonzaga be
if they DID get the same level of recruits as Duke and all those other schools?
I don't like the spin by fans of either schools. What do you
people think? Is my analysis fair and correct?
@PeavlerThanks for the low blow to the utes!Yeah BYU has
done a great job of recruiting the last few years so i'll give you that.
I'm willing to bet though that Haws, Mika and Emery all grew up big BYU
fans. Of course with Utah still recovering from the Rose era they are going to
choose BYU. Even if the Utes were as good as the Bogut years I still think they
would've chosen BYU. Those three were going to go to BYU even if BYU was
mediocre.(I say that because BYU is a good basketball).
@ KenI agree with your analysis.BYU is getting great recruits right
now because of what BYU is and stands for.Not the conference.
We are looking forward to great things from these new recruits and from Coach
Rose for many years to come.
correction to my wording: If byu were in the MWC still or Pac 12. Not "if byu were in the mwc or Pac 12 still"
KenMore petty jealousy and spin; even as a member of the PAC 12,
Utah never has, and never will, even come close to matching the recruiting of
Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Michigan State, and Louisville.When was the last time the Utes were able to pick up four members of the
ESPN100 in back-to-back recruiting classes?TFUDDSame
tired, jealous argument that BYU recruits only pick BYU because they were
life-long BYU fans. The exact same argument could be made for thousands of
recruits every year, that they picked school x because they were life-long fans
of school x.
KenThe recruiting quandary that seems to be baffling jealous Utah
fans is this:BYU recruits players to play for BYU, not the WCC.
@BeSmart,Watch the holier than thou attitude. Many universities are
great and stand for greatness. By saying byu has gotten these great players
because of that implies the other universities don't stand for similarly
great things. Keep it to because of byu's success lately in basketball.
Then you wont be so self righteous.
Thomas Jefferson, Other universities are filled with just as
righteous people as byu, and they do it without telling the world how righteous
they are. What's something specific byu "stands for" that Utah or
other schools don't? And no, a rule is not the same thing as standing for
something. What is a specific value that byu stands for that other schools
don't?Again, don't confuse a rule with standing for
And these recruits have to show little brother how to go on the road and
dominate a PAC school. BYU has defeated Arizona (twice), Oregon, Washington,
and now Stanford comfortably in the last few years (all but one at home). Keep
your heads up lil' bro, your non-conference slate will get you ready for
those big boys.
KenThe proper comparison, Top 40 recruiting class rankings for 2013
and 2014:BYU - 2013 #14, 2014 #24 (four ESPN100, four 4-star, four
3-star recruits)Utah - 2013 unranked, 2014 #30 (one ESPN100, two
4-star, two 3-star recruits)
Lifelong UteNobody said their weren't righteous people at other
universities, but very few major universities even come close to promoting the
standards expected of students attending BYU.Compare the "honor
code" promoted by BYU with the "core values" posted in Utah's
brand new sports training facility - the differences are stark.
LifelongUte--- You're right that many universities stand for good things
which is why I didn't think there was anything "self righteous"
about what Be Smart said. That same statement could have been made by many fans
from many schools yet, you choose to read in a religious element whether it was
meant or not. It often seems that BYU fans are the only ones in the country not
allowed to be traditional fans, which by the way, is short for
@LafeI'm one who reamins unconvinced BYU is a permenant fixture
in the WCC, and I'm even suspicious that was Dave Rose's final
recruiting pitch in this instance, that in "all possability" BYU just
might be in the Big 12 by the time many in this latest recruiting class complete
missionary service and put on that BYU jersey in 2016 and play the likes of
Kansas, Texas or Baylor as opposed to Gonzaga, Saint Mary's, Santa clara
souptwins,He says "because of what Byu is and stands for"
meaning byu stands for something that others do not. If the others stand for
the same values, what is the advantage that byu has that causes them to get
LifelongSorry bro, but I too respectfully disagree with you. Other
universities are not "filled" with righteous students. This is as much
of an exaggeration as if I were to say BYU is "filled" with righteous
students, but I would hope that we could both agree that in general, there are
fewer unrighteous students at the Y than at, say, Washington State.I
also take exception to the characterization that because BYU students have a
rule, they don't necessarily stand for something more than the average
student somewhere else. The mis characterization comes from implying that BYU
students are obedient because they have to be. BYU students agree, of their own
free will, to abide by a higher standard. If, after agreeing to abide by a
higher standard, they then choose otherwise, there are consequences. Some other students at other universities may also choose the same standard.
What BYU "is" is a university that offers a Christ-centered
education.What BYU "stands for" is an educational community
where students and faculty voluntarily commit to live by a set of
@Lifelong Ute You say: "He says "because of
what Byu is and stands for" meaning byu stands for something that others do
not." I find this logic faulty. Because BYU "stands
for" something doesn't mean "that others do not". Where did
this zero-sum analysis come from? So because BYU stands for no alcohol, Southern
Virginia University or BYU-Idaho/Hawaii cannot be alcohol free?
This isn't a race for land, where only one person can own it. BYU can
publicize their values and other can stand for them as well. As a
BYU grad, I have to agree with Y Grad/ Y Dad all the way. Just because the Honor
Code is a "rule" doesn't mean I followed it kicking and screaming.
I love everything about BYU and it was a blessing and a blast to attend there.
BYU isn't perfect, nor its student body, but to say we follow the Honor
Code just because it is a rule undercuts the moral fiber of most of the student
body. I chose BYU fully knowing the Honor Code exists and although having the
opportunity to have a "real" college experience, I wanted the BYU
@ lifelong UteOther universities do stand for greatness.But do they
stand for BYU religionDo they stand for BYUs honor code.I agree
there are plenty of righteous people that attend all other Universities.Dastrup said that BYU is where he feels comfortablebecause of the honor
code environment and his religion and that is what BYU is and stands for.I
meant no malice towards another university.That is why he chose BYU over
Ohio State.Have a good day.
For certain, BYU falls into the same category as Notre Dame, Bob Jones
University, Oral Roberts, et al. A religiously affiliated University.Unlike Oral Roberts, Bob Jones, et al., BYU also stands for rigorous
scientific education. No "Creation Science". No Bible inerrancy. They
teach the same science curriculum at BYU that I studied at Washington. Notre
Dame is pretty secular in its academics, so is BYU. I assume ND also teaches
Catholic values and probably has an affiliated seminary. Yale and Harvard have
Divinity Schools.BYU professors are free to discuss religion even in
their science courses, if they want to. Not sure about Notre Dame. Is it a
coincidence that the two Mormons in the GOP primary where the only ones who
accept evolution and "trust the scientists" on global warming? (yes I
now Huntsman did not go to BYU). I expect that friction exists between the
school of religion and the sciences and liberal arts. Goes without saying. But
Religion does not trump science education or research.I respect
that. I think BYU is an excellent university. My daughter went to BYU and loved
it. And she was taught evolution and science from a very early age.
Cant we just enjoy what "is" and not worry about what "could
be"?BYU could not compete in the BIG 12 in football or
basketball. Lets jut enjoy the success they are having now. The glass is really
half full and could get better. I would simply like to see BYU get into a
scheduling agreement with another quality conference which could be the Pac 12
since so many BYU fans all live in the cities these schools come from. Add in
some of the top teams in the MWC (Boise SDSU and UNLV) and things are very
Do they play basketball at Utah still?
@lifelonguteThe angst utah "fans" like yourself feel over
your dislike for BYU is an interesting thing for me to witness. I understand
that hating one of the most important institutions of the church causes many
utah "fans" a great inner conflict, and they try to rationalize that
hate, and diminish their inner conflict, by calling BYU, or its students, or its
fans, "holier than thou", or other such cuts. It must be difficult. I
feel bad that you put yourself through that sort of turmoil but you are going to
have to fix it within yourself, no one can remove the hate from your soul, only
Ute got owned!
Backtalk: since 1980 BYU is 8-2 against big 12 teams in football. So, I beg to
differ that they could not compete in that conference.
I would have to agree with Ken. I think that BYU is able to get the players
because of who they are/winning recently. I don't think the WCC has help
them at all. That being said I haven't seen a major drop off either, so it
doesn't appear to be hurting them either.
Let me throw in another little tid bit. You Utah fans go look at your TV
schedule for Football and Basketball. Then compare it with BYU's TV
schedule. Literally every game BYU plays is on TV. That includes the ESPN and an
occasional CBS or NBC Channel. BYU tv is even viewed on the space station. Their
Pre-season schedule includes teams than many consider to be very good. PAC 12 is
a good schedule but BYU also regularly plays those teams and does win most of
the time. If I were choosing between Utah and BYU, I don't see a choice.
Yes, Many LDS people and players go to Utah but the atmosphere is totally
different at BYU. Utah is an excellent institution. Medically there are only a
couple of places you can go that might be better. They have excellent
engineering and bio-chemistry, I believe. BYU also has numerous top notch
schools available. Its the environment.Jeff
"no one can remove the hate from your soul, only you."Not
that Ducky, et al, won't try to stoke the fire all they can.
I'm sure the winning tradition also has something to do with players
choosing the Y over teams a-x!