Not surprising at all...proponents of the bond will say that this is a huge loss
for kids-which it is. But, what I think it really indicates is that the public
is absolutely unwilling to give a $500 million dollar blank check to an
institution which has repeatedly shown itself to be poorly financially managed.
Giving Jordan that kind of money would have been absolutely unthinkable. There
are literally dozens of instances that I know of (and I speak as an insider who
has seen, lived through and can list these occurrences...) in which money was
squandered needlessly. I also speak as a parent of kids in the district and am
saddened by how this will impact my kids. But, I cannot support giving the money
to an institution which I KNOW will waste some if not much of the money.
A survey can model the thoughts of a voter who steps up to the voting booth not
knowing in advance what's going to be on the ballot, but that's not
how most voters operate. Obviously voters will form their decision as they take
time during the weeks before the election to study the issues, and a survey
taken months in advance cannot capture that.
I am so happy to see that common sense prevailed. We don't need palatial
new schools that we can't afford. Now the sky is falling mantra will start
from the teachers union. I have seen this over and over in California.
What now. The school my wife teachs in is over 50 years old and
still uses a boiler to heat up the school, there have also been a number of
health issues that teachers have had which and be linked to the school building.
My wife loves teaching, but there are days when I wish she would quit and go
teach at a different school just for the sake of her health. Was the
bond to much? Must be since this state is know for how cheap it can be. You get
what you pay for, you want good teachers then give them good pay, good building
and a reasonable number of students to teach.
If one of my neighbors who work in the Jordan School District had lost their
wristwatch, and honestly couldn't afford to replace it, I would have been
happy to buy them a new Timex, but not a Rolex. With this bond the
District was asking for a Rolex.
How do all of you know that this was too much? How do you know that this is not
what schools cost? Are you just in sticker shock on the total, or do you have
some data and some numbers to back that up? Just please don't complain
when the following things happen:1. Your child sits on the floor in a
classroom because there is no more room for desks (already happening)2.
Your child gets hurt in PE class because one teacher cannot keep their eyes on
all 75 students in their class every minute (already happening)
What more would you like the schools to do? The school my wife teaches at in
Herriman already has 1300 students on a year-round schedule. There are 14
portable classrooms on the playground, also known as the "trailer park"
and teachers rotate from room to room as they track on and off. Perhaps the bond was too big, but please have the common sense to see that the
problem isn't going to simply go away because the bond did not pass. You made 'em. You need to care for 'em. The folks in that
part of town seem to preach "personal responsibility" all the time.
Let's see some. Let's see the solution that you all have to refurbish
out of date buildings while building new ones for the exploding population
without spending any money. I won't hold my breath waiting to see it.
It's easy to say NO! Not so easy to actually have a solution.
(Continued)3. Your schedule, and you child's athletic endeavors, get
screwed up because your child goes to school either from 6:00am-12:30pm or
1:00pm to 7:30pm4. Your middle school or high school child goes to school
year round just like they do in elementary5. Good teachers leave the
district when they are asked to work 30% more hours with no increase in
compensation after already being on a salary freeze and seeing their benefits
increase every year 6. Your students are bused over 15 miles away to fill
other schools not in your boundary (you will not get a choice on this)I
understand that there is a cost that people do not want to play, but these
things cost money, and that money has to come from somewhere. I would love to
see it come from other sources but that is not the reality. You get what you pay
for, so please do not complain about the quality of education that your child
receives if it is all that you are willing to provide. *Not an educator, but a
very concerned parent who values my child's education.
As a resident of Riverton, I would have been ok with a bond that fixed some of
the older schools and even build new elementaries where it made sense. However,
the reason I voted against it was that there are schools in the Jordan District
that are not full in West Jordan and I would like to see these get filled first.
I would like to see the district adjust some boundaries and fill schools that
are already built first before expanding. Seems like the district is affraid of
South Jordan and won't change the boundaries when it makes sense and is
needed. The board members need to manage the tax payers money at our best
interest vs having their own agendas. Yes, go ahead and get a bond for West
Jordan middle school but slow down on the expansion if it is not needed. I am
willing to pay more if the Jordan District Board managed the boundaries and
growth better. This bond would have cost me over $400 a year - C'Mon Man.
I agree that changing boundaries is a good idea but is only a short term
solution. Some foresight is needed here. As JFK said, "The best time to
fix the roof is when it is not raining"
And you wonder why Corner Canyon School District was formed? JSD cititzen just
voted that they don't want to pay for new buildings and upgrades for their
childrens' education. I'm sorry but new schools are needed for your
population. Make them nice so they will last. Splurge and get new heating
systems instead of boilers. Get more teachers that can handle the population.We are loving our new schools in Draper. We passed a bond a few years
ago. They are top of the line, beautiful facilites where our kids can learn and
be proud of their school and community. Our taxes have increased but our kids
are worth it.
Keep a close eye on the State Legislature. Don't be surprised when the
legislature attempts or finds a way to fund the construction of new schools in
the Jordan School District by taxing the rest of us who have supported and paid
for bonds in our own school districts. Those is the Jordan District should
build their own schools and not rely on the rest of us.
@Beaker LOL - No, I believe the JDS citizen is willing to vote for a bond that
makes sense vs doing what the Corner Canyon District did by building a new high
school that wasn't needed. Why is Hillcrest High School so empty and yet
the Corner Canyon district built a new high school nearby vs adjusting
boundaries? Yep, bad management of tax payers money. Like somebody said above,
go look at what California did with tax payers money and look where it got them.
I am proud of the JSD voter for making a statement that the money needs to be
In a place were the state pays people to have more babies, in the form of tax
deductions. And super sized families are inherent in some of the minority
cultures and preached from the pulpit on Sunday what does one expect but super
sized population growth and packed schools? Utah is not one of the fastest
growing states in the Union because people are moving here in droves, it's
a home grown problem. If people want big families and also better schools then
now is a good time for them to put their money were their mouth is and do away
with the tax breaks for children or impose a head tax to help raise at least
some of the needed money. You can't have your cake and eat it too!
How sad. People are always asking the government to put more money into
education, but apparently it has to be someone else's money and not their
own. $240 a year is not that much when you consider the effect it will have on
the future of so many children. Class sizes are going to be huge to be able to
house the number of students projected for the future. Stop paying for cable TV
and invest in something that will matter for your future!
It seems that people are wiling to pay for things that don't matter like
TV, Smart phones, etc. but when it comes to a $20 per month bill to pay for a
child's education that is 'too much'. People are so often
complaining that the government doesn't allocate enough money for
education, yet they are unwilling to pay out of their own pockets to make it
happen. I am disappointed this didn't pass, I hope something in the future
passes or the children will suffer. Huge class sizes, unsafe environments,
teachers quitting because the work load goes up and the pay does down. These
are what you can expect when you don't allocate funds for education.
Prepare for a generation of under educated kids and all the problems inherent
with that :(
If you think there is a better way to do this, then don't stop at simply
voting no, that is the easy way out. Take action and make a difference!
Don't just vote no and still expect everybody else to solve the problem.
If you want a different solution, then step up and be part of it!
@bdjedi28:You criticize people for feeling that "a $20 per month
bill to pay for a child's education is 'too much'". I
don't think that is at all fair or accurate. It would be much more fair to
say that they feel "$20 per month bill ON TOP OF WHAT THEY ALREADY PAY for a
child's education AND FAR TOO MUCH BUREAUCRATIC WASTE AND MISMANAGEMENT is
The bond issue was poorly crafted. Not being in JSD, it appeared that this was
an invitation to spend half a billion dollars by administrators who have not
gained the publics' trust for wise use of education funds. From comments
I've heard, it was less a rejection of targeted funding for needed school
upgrades than it was a cautionary note in favor of incremental spending.
Handing anyone $500 million to spend as they see fit is a reach.
@JACCIf you were to cut 1/2 of the administrators in the District -
including 1/2 of all principals, you would save Jordan District $8 million
dollars. There, now they only need $490 million dollars to fund infrastructure.
That's a HUGE difference. Where's your actual, feasible
ideas on how to manage the exploding growth in the area? These same mayors who
said to vote down the bond proposal are the same ones approving new developments
with no growth plan. Like I said before, it is easy to just say NO!
It is the adults who need to step up and come up with some actual solutions.
The problem isn't going to go away simply because you bury your head in the
UteRock1, You do realize that Hilcrest has over 2,000 students enrolled? All the
schools average nearly the same enrollment. See article:www.deseretnews.com/article/865581774Where in CCSD are you seeing
empty buildings? JSD, now's a good time to start preparing for the flood of
@CHS 85:I personally don't believe that we need anywhere near
$490 million to fund infrastructure that is actually necessary.Please refer to 'casual observer's' comment that appeared just
before yours for a good response to your concerns. A key point was
"administrators ... have not gained the publics' trust for wise use of
education funds". Just one example that sticks in my craw is
the football field at the new Herriman High School. It has a gorgeous new
artificial playing surface. But why was that necessary? How many other more
important priorities could have been addressed with the money that was spent on
that field? I'm not burying my head in the sand. I'm
hoping that the district officers will get the message that the citizens are not
simply going to hand them a blank check. At least not until they demonstrate
more wisdom and restraint. I'm waiting for THEM to do THEIR job and
"come up with some actual solutions" that I can believe in.
my grandfather did some of the planning for the belt route. he told them buy the
land early and save money. they did not buy early and people built houses in the
right of way anyway and fought the road in the courts for years. the decline of
our country can be seen in this bond. people are only worrying about thenselves
not the whole. I only have 2 children but i am willing to help pay more for all
of them and ones to come because that is what we do in this country. tax now, or
tax way more later.
@dba57"I'm waiting for THEM to do THEIR job and "come
up with some actual solutions" that I can believe in."How
many board meetings did you attend during the process? Did you get a group
together to come up with suggestions they could use to formulate their
proposal? School boards are the lowest-level of government and the Board held
many meetings to discuss this bond proposal with the public. I'm going to guess that you didn't attend one board meeting where
this was discussed. I say that because as the spouse of a teacher in your
district, we attended several meetings and there was almost no one from the
local community at any of the meetings we attended. Public input was sought at
every meeting and no one from the community had had the time to bother to show
up and voice their concern. Like I said twice now, NO is so easy.
The solution is to put this into private hands. Charter Schools are the best
solution to this issue. Private operators can partner with local developers to
build schools at lower cost and operate at significantly higher levels of
efficiency. UT Charter Schools are some of the best performing schools in the
State, and have much less bureaucracy and wasted funds than traditional schools.
Developers can go tie up the same land that the district would use, get a bank
loan, get a long term lease with the school, etc....no cost to taxpayers. Look
at the issues they are having in ID. They significantly limit the number of
charters they issue for new schools, because they want to keep the fat cat
bureaucrats at the Districts happy. UT is much more friendly to Charters.
Teachers suffer and students suffer because of poor management, wasted funds,
and way too much government. Get the parents involved, get the teachers in a
better environment, get the kids in a strong learning environment, and save the
taxpayers some money.
@ JACCHow well do you keep to your budget? Do you waste water,
electricity, etc.? Do you know exactly how the funds are handled or are you
just making assumptions based on what you have heard? If a budget is proposed
and there are specific plans of what to do with that budget and the people
administering the funds stay within the budget, then yes $20 a month more than
what I am currently paying for my children's education is totally worth it!
If there is proof that the people in charge have mishandled funds in the past
then show it to us so it is more than just words, but actual facts.
"Recent charter school building costs have been in the range of $100 to $115
per square foot while some school boards have been spending in the neighborhood
of $150 per square foot. Most charter schools cut building costs additionally
by having fewer square feet per student."The above is a quote
from a Utah Taxpayer Assoc. I can't link to here by the rules. Jordan has
a bad history of poor spending choices. I understand they need some new schools
and some renovation. I can't afford their wish list though.Or
for that matter, their tactics. As my husband and I were leaving our local
elementary where we voted yesterday, there was a sign on the lawn citing the
goodies the school would get if we voted for the bond. Pre-printed, and
specific to that school. Makes me think other schools also had such signs.
Don't tell me the people who printed and placed them are ignorant that such
signs next to voting places are illegal.
Actually UteRock1, CCSD was genius in what they did. They moved 9th grade up to
high school and all of our high schools have over 2,000 in attendance at each
school. Hillcrest actually has the largest attendance this year with 2,200
students. Alta is the smallest with 1,800. Good luck to the JSD in
figuring out what to do next. It sound they will be splitting kids up and have
them go different hours of the day. Some kids will have school until 7:30 at
night. There is no other choice.
The following statement was released by the Jordan School District reiterating
that Dan Jones & Associates did not conduct the poll on their behalf: "This letter is in response to inaccuracies that have been reported
regarding the Jordan School District growth survey conducted last June. This
survey was not conducted by Dan Jones & Associates and the District did not
have a contractual agreement with Dan Jones & Associates. Any reference to
an officially sanctioned Dan Jones & Associates survey is incorrect. This study, conducted online through SurveyMonkey, was designed to
engage parents and patrons over growth issues facing Jordan School District. The
District wishes to thank Pat Jones for the volunteer time she spent assisting
District officials in creating the survey and reviewing the results. We sincerely apologize to Dan Jones & Associates in the District's
survey.Jordan School District respects Dan Jones & Associates
and regrets any misuse of their corporate brand. Media organizations that
reported our survey as being conducted by Dan Jones & Associates have been
contacted by Jordan School District to correct this issue. Sincerely,Patrice A. Johnson, Ed.D.Superintendent of
The people who voted no are most likely the same ones who drop their kids off
for school in new suburban's or other top of the line SUVS. If you
don't believe me visit a school during early morning hours and observe the
vehicles most parents drive. Education is expensive. Our teachers and students
The bond failed not because we in the Jordan District didn't want to spend
the money (though the sticker shock was what got people to pay attention), but
because the bond was a blank check, without the careful fiscal planning it
should have includedI would gladly pay extra. I would even be willing to
cut the child tax credits (if the extra went to the district). What I am not
willing to do is hand the district an extra $300 a year without some idea of how
that money will be spent, and without trusting that the district will be frugal
with it.Jordan School District, please try again next year.
I'm betting you get the money if you will just show that you have put some
serious thought into being frugal with the money we give you.