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Utah Jazz: Brooklyn's Deron Williams finally gets a win over winless Jazz

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  • gee-en Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 8:17 p.m.

    The Jazz look AWFUL…really, really AWFUL.
    Listless.
    Helpless.
    Hopeless.
    99% chance they will be battling for the worst record in the NBA come April.
    ESPN has an article that predicts Corbin will be let go soon and possibly Jerry Sloan will fill in for a while until they can get a new long term coach in place.
    What a strange time for the Jazz organization.
    Sigh

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Nov. 5, 2013 9:03 p.m.

    @gee-en

    i am surprised that you think we are playing for a playoff spot...when most of the Jazz fans were already accepting that this is the year full of trials since this is the first time the young guys are playing huge roles....

    Gordon Hayward had a decent line...efficient...if this continues...bump his rebounding and ast more...maintain his FG%...improve point output to 25...he can command a nice contract...i think he wanted a 5 yr deal...and management didnt want to commit..because it would mean the team would designated Hayward as the Franchise player...and since we have a chance to get a superstar at the draft the deal didnt push through...Enes Kanter had an efficient scoring night as well...but the 7 turnovers is costly...plus...only 8 rebounds? against Brook Lopez? who isnt much of a rebounder...i hope kanter and favors increase their rebounding output...we are going to get a lot of these games...and i hope it wont affect the players' confidence...overall this year and the next would be learning years...we should demand results on the third year...

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 9:21 p.m.

    0-4 and each player is getting worse and worse as the losing culture gets a firmer and firmer grip on the team. 18 more games until they get Sacramento at home on 7 Dec in what could be their first chance for a win this season. Has anybody come up with another candidate for their first win?

  • Bankshot7 Clearfield, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 10:46 p.m.

    What part of rebuilding don't you understand? They need to lose to get a high draft pick, duh! This is a rebuilding year, we're going to lose a bunch of games. Riggin' for Wiggin. Get it?

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 10:44 p.m.

    "...The Jazz have their best chance of this road trip to pick up a victory Wednesday when they visit the 0-4 Boston Celtics...".

    Back to backs, on the road, are difficult, for even the better teams...

  • forgetyourself Layton, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 6:43 a.m.

    I understand learning problems from the young guys its Jefferson,Tinsley and Lucus that make me irritated. I fully expect us to loose a lot of games but why have a Vet who does nothing to help the youth get better? Why not try Alec at the point with Hayward not like we are in Championship mode. I would also rather see Ian than John. Ian has huge upside to his game. I also can't wait for Evans and Trey to come back.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 6:57 a.m.

    Bankshot: I was raised in San Diego.
    - San Diego Rockets moved to Houston.
    - San Diego Conquistadors (ABA) failed.
    - San Diego Sails (ABA) failed.
    - San Diego Clippers moved to LA.

    Except the Rockets, a major factor in their failure was building/rebuilding with kids.

    When I lived in Seattle, the Sonics competed. When they rebuilt with kids, they lost their team to OKC. Like the SD teams, the Sonics died from fan apathy.

    The Jazz haven't been selling out their arena for a few years. Another few years of that and some city will come calling. Poor attendance is the result of a lousy product.

    Do you really think the young Jazz players are getting better by playing without veteran leadership and getting beat every game? Did they look more confident in game 1 or game 4? Did they play more as a team in game 1 or game 4?

    - What they are learning is bad habits. They are already becoming more selfish.
    - They are losing confidence in themselves, in the coach (justifiably in my opinion) and, worst of all, in their front office.
    - What free agent would come to the Jazz if he had another choice?

  • gehelmke Bastrop, TX
    Nov. 6, 2013 7:33 a.m.

    The Jazz's greatest need at the end of last season was a point guard. That need is still evident with the old and slow Tinsley as well as the quick little dribbler Lucas, but I no longer believe that PG is their greatest need.....After all, Burke is waiting in the wings for his finger to heal......I believe their greatest need today is a coach.....I watch them run around and dribble around with no apparent pattern....I watch them going one on one and flinging up all sorts of shots....I watch them play that "ball-chasing" defense which guarantees if an opponent spreads out and swings the ball around, someone will be open....And I realize that this is playground basketball...If this is to continue, they don't need a coach......All they need is a trainer and an equipment manager.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    gehelmke: I agree.

    - When Tinsley is in the game, the Jazz are playing four against five on offense. Jazz can't score when you essentially give the opponents an extra defender.

    - I hoped the defensive length inside (Favors, Kanter, Biedrins, Evans, Gobert) would allow perimeter defenders to stay home and pressure perimeter scorers (like when Eaton and Ostertag patrolled the paint). Despite injuries to that group, the Jazz should follow that plan. Instead, Corbin has his perimeter defenders digging the ball out of the paint and rotating on the perimeter. The rotation game always keeps defenders out of position, and off balance leaving opponents with wide-open shots and inviting fouls. The Jazz try to put other teams in that position. Why does Corbin fall for it from opponents?

    - Terrible shooting percentage is always about shot selection. Is the Jazz offense really designed to get Tinsley and Lucas 3-pt opportunities; or to put the ball in the hands of Harris or Gobert late in the shot clock; or for Hayward to pass up an open 12-footer to make a high risk pass to a covered teammate?

    Bad coaching in my mind.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    Looking good jazz, looking good. No other team in the NBA would ever start Tinsley. In fact, every other team has a backup point guard better then tinsley, yet we are starting him. Smart move, Corbin. The jazz are starting to play selfish and just huck up shots. Favors looked sluggish and lazy. In fact, several times last night he did the same thing people got mad a Jefferson for - walking back on defense after making a bad play. It is horrible to watch this team. Getting a top draft pick next year isn't going to help this team. You can bring in one rookie that may or may not pan out and think they are going to be good. I guess we should have drafted Carter-Williams instead of Burke? Can you say bust?

  • satch Highland, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:22 a.m.

    Keep losing please. I'd like to see Andrew Wiggins here.

  • Jazz Source Alpine, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    It is our PG situation that is causing most of the problems. They can't handle the ball or shoot so our other players are having to try to do too much causing mass TO's. Our PG's never break down the defense. Never. Possession after possession it is grind it out execution. There are no easy baskets.

    Turnovers are eating this team alive because we don't have a PG on the floor who can set anyone up or get them an easy hoop without them being in a tough spot and turning the ball over.

    We are already going to stink so I say lets wait for Burke to get back and see what he has to offer. I don't want another 2nd or 3rd tier veteran brought in to take minutes. I don't want the Jazz to take on a contract that we don't need. I want them to see what these young guys can do, keep their salary cap flexibility, and then re-evaluate after the season and the draft.

    At that point we will know which of these young guys is going to pan out.

  • JBQ Saint Louis, MO
    Nov. 6, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    You cannot "forget the mission". The mission is not to win. The mission is to develop so that the Jazz can win. If you fall into the praxis of winning at any cost with the current troops, then all is lost in the redevelopment. Kanter and Favors are doing great. Hayward is suspect because of his contract dispute but last game did well. Burke will soon be back. Even if the Jazz go 0-82 which is now possible, the Jazz will win. Actually this is Corbin's element. He is a teacher and is doing great. The great Bill Russell had to quit coaching Seattle because he wanted one more dollar than his highest paid star. The NBA is a Hollywood existence. After "whistle stop four", I would say that the train ride is going well. Just sit back and enjoy the countryside.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    By the way, who thinks Hayward might be gone by the trade deadline? Do you think the Jazz will risk getting nothing for him due to a max deal during free agency?

    I know there are other options:
    - Hayward doesn't get a max deal (I think he will.)
    - Jazz can match (I think they will avoid overpaying.)
    - Sign and trade (This is probably the most likely option if he stays with the Jazz all year.)

    So why not make a deal at the trade deadline instead?

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 10:51 a.m.

    JBQ: After last night's game, how do you think the development program is going? How did you think Kanter and Favors stacked up against Lopez? Or the ancient KG? Or, for that matter, Blatsche?

    You seriously thought Hayward had a good game last night? Did you happen to notice his plus/minus? -25. How is that even possible for the guy who is supposed to be noted for his good all-round floor game?

    Where did you get the idea that Corbin is a teacher? Can you provide evidence of that? On Corbin's watch, I have a hard time thinking of a single player who got substantially better than the normal trajectory gained from experience.

  • Man in Charge Chihiuahua, 00
    Nov. 6, 2013 11:08 a.m.

    joe5

    "When I lived in Seattle, the Sonics competed. When they rebuilt with kids, they lost their team to OKC. Like the SD teams, the Sonics died from fan apathy."

    And those same "kids" they rebuilt with, took them to the finals 4 years later. The Thunder left Seattle because the city wouldn't pay for renovations for a new arena. seriously, the 8th seed playoff spot without a superstar must be like winning the championship for you.

  • Man in Charge Chihiuahua, 00
    Nov. 6, 2013 11:12 a.m.

    joe5

    "By the way, who thinks Hayward might be gone by the trade deadline? Do you think the Jazz will risk getting nothing for him due to a max deal during free agency?"

    If the Jazz are really as bad as you say they are, nobody is giving Hayward a max deal. If there is a GM out there, dumb enough to give Hayward an Kirilenko-like deal, They will be fired and wouldn't be able to get a job as a Little League GM if they have one.

  • Man in Charge Chihiuahua, 00
    Nov. 6, 2013 11:16 a.m.

    joe5 thinks the Jazz can win a championship with the likes of OJ Mayo, Nikolai Pekovic and Andrew Bynum. That's even more pathetic than the way the Jazz played last night. I doubt he is even a Jazz fan.

    Mediocrity doesn't win championships. Only superstars.

  • Man in Charge Chihiuahua, 00
    Nov. 6, 2013 11:19 a.m.

    Winning won't get them Wiggins or Parker. A superstar will change everything and that is something the Jazz don't have.

    Contrary to the belief of some people, Hayward is not a superstar, not even close. He is no Paul George.

  • Tenn12 Orem, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 12:50 p.m.

    My greatest concern isn't the 0-4 start because I like many, don't care about the wins and losses so much. I want to see progress. Though its still early in this season, I don't believe Corbin is the guy. He doesn't get much out of his players. Last year was an embarrassment. This year what offense are we running? Can someone help me? It honestly looks like intramural ball. Defense is supposed to be the emphasis but I see bad efforts just as I did last year. Here's to hoping things do improve, but unfortunately it appears we need another coach to get more out of the players.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 1:56 p.m.

    Man in Charge (MIC): "And those same "kids" they rebuilt with, took them to the finals 4 years later."

    Yes, no championships and they are regressing. This OKC team is not going back to where they were two years ago. That ship has sailed for them.

    MIC: "The Thunder left Seattle because the city wouldn't pay for renovations for a new arena.'

    Yes, the city saw no return on investment partly because of fan apathy. Fans wouldn't even rally for a new arena. They stopped caring.

    MIC: "If the Jazz are really as bad as you say they are, nobody is giving Hayward a max deal."

    Hayward's value has nothing to do with the Jazz win-loss record. And, yes, he will get a max offer.

    MIC: "the 8th seed playoff spot without a superstar must be like winning the championship for you." and "joe5 thinks the Jazz can win a championship with the likes of OJ Mayo, Nikolai Pekovic and Andrew Bynum. That's ... pathetic .... I doubt he is even a Jazz fan."

    Personal attacks indicate an inability to articulate valid arguments an a general lack of civility.

  • Cougars17 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 4:18 p.m.

    *Brook Lopez, not Robin Lopez like it says in the article

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    Nov. 6, 2013 4:35 p.m.

    I agree with most of the points here...that not only do we need a PG but we really need a better coach...i dont really think Ty Corbin would be a good coach...heck...i'd give Lawrence Frank the job...even though i know how tough Scott Skiles is with his players...i'd give him the job over Corbin...but didnt we kind of expected this would happen?...this is the year this young guys...prove their worth...by battling it out...but...if we really dont have any staple sets on offense and on D...we won't get anywhere...there is a reason why teams win...and its their system....if you have a winning system...you must sell it to your players...you must define their roles on the court...make use of their talent....even if Burke was here...im not really sold on the guy...he couldn't finish during summer league and pre-season...but im willing to give him the chance...and i agree that Hayward is no Superstar...but he can be a fringe all-star...i think he should have went to Stockton for a lesson

  • Americanvet Ivins, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 5:25 p.m.

    I've already called my shot and think tonight's game against Boston will be the first win for the Jazz. The game is just getting ready to start. I think Hayward will have a great game because he wants to look good in front of his old coach. Also, truth be told I think Hayward wants to play in Boston when his contract expires here and a big game tonight will go along way to Boston being willing to pony up the big bucks next year to sign him.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 5:40 p.m.

    Americanvet: I hope you're right about a Jazz win tonight. I'd love nothing better than to be completely wrong in my scathing treatment of the Jazz front office and their coach and their players.

  • Americanvet Ivins, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:00 p.m.

    I was wrong. The Jazz made a little run late but they seem to be getting down on themselves. They need a win to get some confidence, but in the meantime we look good for the Wiggins / Parker sweepstakes.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:46 p.m.

    I can't even take much joy in being right. I'd rather be wrong and start to see a few wins. But their early schedule is pretty tough. The losing could go on a while longer.

  • fortydam OREM, UT
    Nov. 8, 2013 11:07 a.m.

    Blaming Corbin with this point guard debacle is outrageous. They're running the same offense that Jerry ran in Utah for years. They are however not running it with John Stockton. Corbin has been ask to coach with more than five different lousy point guards. Neto showed more promise in the one Summer league game than any of the other guards. This team has very little talent past the first five players, so changing coaches would add to the circus.
    Favors needs to step it up! Every game. His lack of rotation has left Kanter hanging in the wind as he tries to defend the pick and roll. Hayward needs to stop hiding for long stretches in the game. Ian Clark need to turn it loose. I know he missed three in a row, but like Korver or any shooter he can hit them in bunches. All of them need to start setting hard picks, they start setting hard and then just walk through them by the second quarter. Neto Neto Neto.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 8, 2013 11:26 a.m.

    Old adage: "The most popular athlete in town is the back=up quarterback."

    It's silly to be crying for Neto. He could have been injured. He could have been inconsistent. He could have been Raul Lopez.

    Ty has to work with what he has. Granted, the front office hasn't given him anything to work with. But he has also not pulled his weight. I cannot think of one player that has taken a big step forward under his watch and most have gotten worse. I'm not griping about his game management though there is plenty to criticize there as well. My heartburn is that he hasn't shown the ability to make the most of the talent he has at his disposal.

    For 20 years, Jerry Sloan consistently had his team with more wins that anybody projected. He made the most of what he had so his teams almost always over-performed. Not once has Corbin even matched preseason projections for his teams. They consistently under-perform.

    So he has failed as a teacher for individual players and as a coach of the collective team. What else is there?