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Utah football: 60% of Kyle Whittingham's wins come against losing teams

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  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 3:14 p.m.

    And yet that record is STILL best among coaches here in Utah.

    Every coach has a better winning percentage against losing teams, why not give us some averages comparing him to Bronco? Or to the rest of the nation?

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 3:15 p.m.

    After this year, Kyle will have TWO wins against BCS bowl participants and END of season top 10 teams(Alabama and Stanford - likely top1 10 and BCS bowl)

    Number of wins against END of season top 10 wins for Bronco?

    Zero

    Number of wins against BCS bowl participants for Bronco?

    Zero

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 3:17 p.m.

    I'll be that 60% is pretty similar for coaches. Another smear article by the des news against a coach who actually has proven he can have a quest for perfection and BCS glory.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 3:23 p.m.

    @christina

    What makes you so sure stanford will finish in the top 10? They will more than likely lose to oregon this week which will once again drop them out of the top 10. If oregon goes to the bcs championship game, a likely occurance, then stanford will default into the rose bowl where they will probably get unceremoniously pummeled by a superior ohio state team. That is at least 3 losses right there and no chance of being in the top 10.

    I'll give you this, you aren't afraid to make foolish comments and predictions, or maybe you truly believe them which makes it even sadder. LOL!

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 3:28 p.m.

    "Or do Kyle Whittingham-coached teams struggle against quality opponents in general?"

    The past three years they've struggled to have a healthy QB by mid season when conference play is going which tends to be a problem. Has Utah even had their beginning of season starting QB healthy for even a third of these conference games? Utah has shown an ability to still get quality wins when healthy as evidenced by 3 early season wins against the quality opponent BYU during these three years.

  • Uncle Rico Sandy, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 3:29 p.m.

    Utah is a good program, just have to learn to compete every week. Instead focusing on "BSC Glory", they should focus on winning a game.

    Some people are really obsessed with defending their teams by knocking down other teams. Sad really.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 3:40 p.m.

    Versus PAC 12 Teams
    Bronco 9-8(53%)
    Kyle 12-18(40%)

    Versus BCS Teams
    Bronco 15-15(50%)
    Kyle 21-20(51%)

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    Bronco 4
    Kyle 2

    AP/Coaches Top 15 Finishes
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 1

    11+ Win Seasons
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 1

    10+ Win Seasons
    Bronco 5
    Kyle 3

    Conference Championships
    Bronco 2
    Kyle 1

    Wins versus teams with winning records
    Bronco 31
    Kyle 28

    Losses versus teams with losing records
    Bronco 5
    Kyle 6

    Losses to 10+ loss teams
    Bronco 0
    Kyle 2

    Bowl Games
    Bronco 8
    Kyle 7

    Losing Seasons
    Bronco 0
    Kyle 1

    Overall Record
    Bronco 80-31(72%)
    Kyle 74-36(67%)

    If not for Kyle's perfect storm 2008 season, the Utes wouldn't have much, if anything, in the way of any real accomplishments under Kyle's leadership.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 3:43 p.m.

    "Omitting 2008"? Yeah, THAT's an objective view of Whit's record.

    Ute fans need a red pompon-waiving homer writing for the DNews so hit-pieces like this have some balance by comparing Whit's entire record with the other coaches in-state, and strength of schedule, etc.

    But if that homer is like Dick Harmon, never mind. We don't need our own house organ to tell us the U is in a tough conference and yet still beats the Y like a rented mule.

  • Ed Grady Idaho Falls, ID
    Nov. 5, 2013 4:16 p.m.

    Whittingham - a great MWC coach. Pac-12? Not so much.

  • RSLfanalways West Valley, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 4:19 p.m.

    College football in Utah is always interesting. BYU started bad and has worked its way to be good. Ute's started good but now are falling, and USU started moderate then got hurt and now going back up to be a decent team.

  • Crisco B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 4:20 p.m.

    Let's face it, there are very very very few teams who manage to maintain a national profile year after year. Again though, having a membership to an elite gym does not make you able to automatically lift 500 lbs. The Utes had some glory. Give them credit. Give Whittingham credit. But outside of beating BYU (and Standford? How did that happen?), there hasn't been much to glory for these past few years.

  • UteMiguel Go Utes, CA
    Nov. 5, 2013 4:46 p.m.

    Only 28% of Oregon's FBS wins this year have come against winning teams. I guess Oregon is not very good.

    100% of BYU's losses this year have come against teams that are .500 or below. BYU must be terrible.

    What do they say about statistics?

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 4:51 p.m.

    True Blue,

    Simply being in the top 25 isn't all that impressive, 25 teams do it ever year.

    Tell me, would you rather have a team that has a #2 end ranking one year and a #48 ranking the next year, or two consecutive years at #25 and #25.

    I'll take a program that has higher highs and lower lows any day!

    Best season ever for Whit or Bronco?

    Whit

    Best bowl win ever for Whit or Bronco?

    Whit

    Highest ranking ever for Whit or Bronco?

    Whit

  • mountainlocal Brooklyn, NY
    Nov. 5, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    Look at the Mountain West conference standing right now. 7 out of 12 teams are at or below .500. It's obvious Utah has stepped up in competition. Look at TCU. Same scenario. I don't think that diminishes the coaches record. People thinking Utah was going to take over the PAC 12 were being somewhat naive. The Utes haven't had solid QB play in a while. I don't think Whit's seat is hot, but if they are still going 6-6 in Wilson's senior year, then I expect the temp to be extremely warm.

    Can't really take out a full year and several opponents for a solid statistical analysis. Ask Oregon State about playing FCS schools and whether or not they still have to show up and play (lost 2 FCS games in the last couple of years). Many SEC schools pad 33% of their schedule against cupcakes at the beginning of the year. The games still count and help the teams climb the rankings because they are an SEC team with a 5-0 record at the start of the year.

  • jed c Payson, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 5:16 p.m.

    "Phibbs was raised in Sandy, Utah where he graduated from Alta High in 2008 and is a current senior at the University of Utah."

    This is hardly an article from a BYU homer people. Do your homework. For the most part he is just listing statistics. It is a touch harsh though. I normally do not post but I am continually amazed at how many clueless sports fans (for both teams) are out there. Think before you post, try to have a clue, and show a little respect for both coaches who are by any standard great representatives for their schools, the state of Utah and the coaching profession.

  • Pavalova Surfers Paradise, AU
    Nov. 5, 2013 6:14 p.m.

    Doesn't that mean 40% are against winning teams? Unfortunately, BYU is one of the winning programs on that resume. Too bad, the U is part of the 60%.

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 6:22 p.m.

    Chris B

    "Tell me, would you rather have..."

    I'd rather have EIGHTEEN Top 25 finishes in the last 37 seasons, NINE Top 15 finishes, FOUR Top 10 finishes, and a National Championship, over Utah's pathetic FIVE lifetime AP Top 25 finishes, ANY DAY!

    The Utes have never finished higher than #4 in the Coaches poll, the official final poll for the BCS, and the Utes have never finished higher than #6 in the final BCS standings.

    BYU's Best - #1 AP, #1 Coaches
    Utah's Best - #2 AP, #4 Coaches

    Utah's best pales in comparison to BYU's best.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 5, 2013 6:24 p.m.

    Fifty percent chance of the utes making a bowl this year.

    How will they do it next year without a Cougar gift?

  • UteMiguel Go Utes, CA
    Nov. 5, 2013 6:46 p.m.

    True blue, please also let us know their head to head record. Thanks in advance.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 6:59 p.m.

    The problem for some fans JohnInSLC is that Bronco hasn't had any perfect storm seasons and inexplicable losses to teams like Virginia to derail big-time hopes. I actually like both coaches but fair is fair. The 2008 season did happen and Whittingham was in charge. Plus, winning the last four games vs. BYU has to count for something. I guess you forgot that stat.

  • Sam the Lamanite FPO, AE
    Nov. 5, 2013 8:31 p.m.

    This article made me wonder, "What percentage of Coach Mendenhall's wins came against losing teams?"

    I counted them up. Unless I made a mistake, that answer is, "58%."

    Yeah, we should make a big deal about the huge difference in those percentages.....

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 8:34 p.m.

    If I were a ute fan, I would have more patience with Kyle Whittingham if I saw progress being made. This is the third year in the PAC12, and fourth year recruiting to the PAC12 (interestingly shaping up to be Utah's worst recruiting year since joining the league). First year, 4-5 in the PAC, second year 3-6, this year 1-4 (and 2-7 is a real possibility). I get that the PAC12 is tougher and will take patience, but Utah is digressing, not progressing.

    When you do the same thing and get the same result (or worse result) it's time to change...or go insane expecting a different result. Hmm, now that explains a lot about CB.

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 9:07 p.m.

    Once again Ute fans are having a serious identity crisis. On the one hand, they say that BYU is behind them, that BYU is nothing more than a bad memory and that it is time to find a better, higher caliber rival to compete with year in and year out.

    But while they search for this new rival and claim that BYU is small potatoes, they still make their presence known, day after day on stories like this.

    "Utah is better than BYU"

    "Kyle is better than Bronco"

    Hey Ute fans, if BYU is as terrible and pathetic as you say they are, what does it say about your team when the only team you compare them to is BYU?

    If the Utah Utes, with its big, amazing membership in the PAC 12 is such a high profile, nationally recognized powerhouse now, why aren't you going on other PAC 12 school fan sites and comparing yourselves to those teams?

  • Down under Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 10:53 p.m.

    This is what we have been saying for years now. The record will continue to head southward and I can only see one more win in fellow bottom-dweller Colorado. It guess it will be a pillow fight for the basement.

  • Down under Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 11:16 p.m.

    Clark,
    I have an answer. It is because they CAN'T compare to any pac team in any major sport. Even WSU has a program heading in the right direction. Colorado will be the new standard for the utes.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 5, 2013 11:37 p.m.

    "In 2005, Georgia Tech lost three of its last four games. In 2006, Tulsa lost four of its last five games. In 2009, California beat one ranked team all year and lost four games by a combined score of 30-145." -- DN

    ------------

    Wrong, Georgia Tech came in winning 4 of their last 6 games, lost to 7-5 VT (7-5) and at home against #10 Georgia (10-3). That is why they were ranked AP #23.

    Utah (6-6) came in losing 4 of last 7 games but then destroyed GT 38-10.

    We didn't play Tulsa in 2006 we played them in 2007 when they came in on a 4 game winning streak.

    In 2009, Utah came in losing 2 of the last 3. Cal (8-4) had with ONE horrible loss at 5-7 Washington other loses were to OrgSt (8-5), #22 USC (9-4), #11 @Oregon(10-3). BYU got exposed at home by 7-5 FSU and TCU so what?

    Cougar Nation must be really desperate, if you can't beat 'em try make up stats to get them fired?

  • tkeele SANDY, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 11:50 p.m.

    How about the only stat that matters...head to head. Kyle!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 5, 2013 11:50 p.m.

    My bad, we did beat 2006 Tulsa (8-5) who came in losing 3 of last 4.

    But then again in 2007 we beat Navy (8-5) who came in winning 4 straight.

    The fact is Tulsa was a better team, they played a tougher schedule than Navy.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 6, 2013 12:23 a.m.

    Whittingham’s 7-1 bowl record also manifests the same trend. Other than the Sugar Bowl win over Alabama, each opponent entered downtrodden.

    -------------

    Both BYU and Utah played 4 AP top 30 teams:

    2005: Utah 38 GTech 10 (#24 - unranked) ... Utah had lost 4 of 7, GT had won 4 of 6
    2008: Utah 31 Bama 17 (#4 - #6)
    2010: Utah 3 Boise 26 (#10 - #9)
    2011: Utah 30 GTech 27 (#30 - unranked) ... GT finished 2-4 vs teams combined 48-31 (60 WP)

    2005: BYU 28 Cal 35 (#31 - #25) ... BYU won 5 of last 7, Cal lost 4 of last 6
    2009: BYU 44 OSU 20 (#16 - #27)
    2011: BYU 24 Tulsa 21 (#34 - unranked)
    2012: BYU 23 SDSU 3 (#30 - unranked) ... SDSU finished 6-0 vs teams 34-42 (44 WP)

    Look similar, both are 3-1, the difference we lost to a top 10 team and beat a top 10 team.

  • USNGary San Diego, CA
    Nov. 6, 2013 12:51 a.m.

    Didn't read the article, went straight to comment. This is an article about utah right? Why is there any mention of BYU by anyone?

  • Sparkley Briefs New York, NY
    Nov. 6, 2013 6:34 a.m.

    Hippo,

    YOU are trolling on a Utah article. YOU are having the identity crisis - talking trash at the team that POUNDED BYU in an attempt to make yourself feel better about your team. Its YOU trying to talk trash at fans of a team that wish your team was better than. Utah is better; it was proved again on the field.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:03 a.m.

    Sparkley Briefs,

    "talking trash at the team that POUNDED BYU"

    Why are you even still talking about 2010? Who cares? If you're calling this year's one possession victory by Utah a pounding, then I guess we can say that Utah got pounded by Oregon State, UCLA, Arizona, and USC. There is no "we hung with them" when you get POUNDED.

    Can't wait until after Saturday when Utah get's to experience a similar POUNDING they got last year from ASU.

    Go Devils!

  • Ed Grady Idaho Falls, ID
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:30 a.m.

    Hey Utes, if you want to defend your coach who can't win in the Pac-12 - be my guest.

  • SEC Rules Seminole, FL
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:33 a.m.

    I love it.

    Whit is a BYU grad, and he still bleeds blue.

  • Sounds right.. Cedar city, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:43 a.m.

    Bronco is a much better coach and it shows by overall record during each of their 8 years. Whit had one fluke season that has saved his job to this point. Whit does have a better head to head record but that is because utah treats the rivalry game like a bowl game and obviously is not to concerned with the rest of his season after BYU where as bronco treats it like a game and does a tremendous job throughout an entire season.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:45 a.m.

    UteMiguel

    head-to-head record is MEANINGLESS on a national scale

    ------------

    "Utah football: 60% of Kyle Whittingham's wins come against losing teams"

    It's far worse than that for Kyle in the PAC 12: 16 of Utah's 17 PAC 12 wins (94%) have come against conference foes with losing records.

    Kyle has had more losses (2) to PAC 12 teams with losing records, than he's had wins (1) versus conference foes with winning records.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:46 a.m.

    What difference does this make---Hillary Clinton 2013, on why BYU is the better team

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 6, 2013 8:53 a.m.

    Uteology

    Despite your "bowl" spin,

    BYU finished in the AP Top 25 FOUR straight times (2006 to 2009), while Kyle only managed to crack the AP TWICE (2008 and 2009).

    If Kyle's bowl wins were really as impressive as you pretend they were, why did the pollsters completely ignore the Utes in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2010 and 2011?

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:00 a.m.

    CougarSunDevil

    Sparkley Briefs is probably still living with the delusion that Utah is better than ASU, even though ASU has OWNED Utah forever - NINE straight wins, 18 of 24 overall, including two crushing defeats, 14-35 and 7-37, since Utah joined the PAC 12.

    Utah has only beaten ONE PAC 12 team with a winning record in almost three full seasons.

    ASU has beaten FIVE such PAC 12 teams in the last three seasons, including two this season - USC(10-2), Utah(8-5), Arizona(8-5), USC(6-3), and Washington(5-3).

    Utah is WINLESS versus Arizona State since the Sun Devils joined the PAC 10 in 1978.

    How many winning conference seasons the Utes have had since joining the conference?

    btw, that 10-2 USC team that ASU dominated 43-22 in 2011...

    finished 6th in the final AP poll.

  • tdlawton Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:14 a.m.

    It is a lot easier to beat bad teams than good team... Is this supposed to be insightful?

    To have any value you need to run this same analysis for a number (or all) Division I Coaches.

    BYU fans and BYU shills (and let's face it the DNews sports desk are BYU shills) will spend thousands of words trying to cover up a few numbers.

    4 in row
    9 of the last 11
    14 of last 21
    54-31-4 all time.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:19 a.m.

    talkinsports

    "If Kyle's bowl wins were really as impressive as you pretend they were, why did the pollsters completely ignore the Utes in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2010 and 2011?"

    Uteology likes to delve into the minutia and pretend that the elephant's tail represents a true picture of what the entire elephant looks like.

    Beating BYU or winning a bowl game represents the end-all-be-all of an entire season.

    Forget that Utah also lost 4 or 5 games to teams like Wyoming, New Mexico, UNLV, Colorado State, and Colorado along the way, and just pretend that the rest of the country is as enamored as Ute Nation is with the Utes beating the #56 team in the country in a bowl.

  • Hawk Littleton, CO
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:30 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs raises what should be a troubling point. Not only is the current recruiting class shaping up to be sub-par, but after 4 years of "PAC12 recruiting", the Utes' QB situation is STILL a mess, the RB 'committee' is not producing as expected, the WR position is thin and even Dres Anderson has been somewhat of a non-factor is recent games, lack of depth at the TE position has been exposed after a couple of injuries, and the DBs (a traditional strong point for Whittingham D's) have been shaky at best (HOW many picks have they come up with this season?). This isn't the trajectory on which PAC12 affiliation was supposed to place the Utes -- it just doesn't bode well....

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:44 a.m.

    Because of proximity and history, the Utah and BYU programs continue to be connected at the hip. Over the last 25 years, the two teams are very much alike, whether most fans in either camp want to admit it.

    I wonder whether there will be a similar article coming out of the Deseret News in the next few days about Bronco Mendenhall. But in case that doesn't happen, here are some stats that might be of interest:

    Mendenhall: 80 wins, 31 losses. 5-2 in bowls. 3-6 vs. Utah. 3-16 vs. teams that finished in the top 25, 2-9 since 2008. 4 top 25 finishes (16, 14, 25, 12). 58% of wins came against sub-500 teams.

    Whittingham: 75 wins, 36 losses. 7-1 in bowls. 6-3 vs. BYU. 6-14 vs. teams that finished in the top 25, 1-9 after 2008. 2 top 25 finishes (2, 18). Played a tougher SOS than BYU 6 in 9 years, and in 5 of the last 6 years. 60% of wins came against sub 500 teams.

    I hope both teams finish their seasons strong, especially the Utes!

  • Y>U Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:47 a.m.

    tdlawton

    As usual, it's all about BYU when it comes to Utah.

    Here's a few numbers you left out (last 50 Years - the modern era):

    Head-to-head
    BYU 29 Utah 21

    AP Top 25
    BYU 17 Utah 5

    National Championships
    BYU 1 Utah 0

    Heisman Trophies
    BYU 1 Utah 0

    National College Football Hall of Fame Players
    BYU 6 Utah 0

    Conference Championships
    BYU 23 Utah 6

    Bowl Appearances
    BYU 31 Utah 16

    11+ Win Seasons
    BYU 11 Utah 2

    10+ Win Seasons
    BYU 16 Utah 6

    Overall Record
    BYU 402-197-4 (67%)
    Utah 314-255-4 (55%)

    BYU has DOMINATED U for the last half-century; it's not even close!

  • Utahute72 Tooele, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 10:14 a.m.

    To objectively assess the differences between Bronco's and whitt's career you need to use the period BEFORE Utah entered the PAC 12. After that period it could be argued you are comparing apples and oranges. This year for example, outside Utah, BYU will really only be playing 2-3 quality opponents, while Utah will be playing 10. Big difference.

  • Common-Tator Saint Paul, MN
    Nov. 6, 2013 10:42 a.m.

    From a decided Cougar fan ...... this is one article that definitely didn't need to be written and does little to forward anything of worth.

    I hope the Utes continue to march forward and strengthen their program, the Y continues their improvement, and that the DesNews is a little more selective on what articles they choose to print.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 10:42 a.m.

    Bronco only beets good teams. look at his records against top teams and you'll see Broncos wins are against the best.
    Most coaches only have winning games against good teams to this shows Whit can't coach good. if he only beats teams that loose.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 6, 2013 10:47 a.m.

    Utahute72

    "This year for example, outside Utah, BYU will really only be playing 2-3 quality opponents, while Utah will be playing 10. Big difference."

    LOL at the crimson-bubbled, delusion that exists on the hill.

    BYU's 2013 SOS is ranked #21; that's 20 places HIGHER than any schedule Utah had ever played prior to this year. Utah's schedules for 2011 and 2012 were ranked #49 and #41.

    btw, Bronco's teams finished in the AP Top 25 FOUR times, prior to the Independent/PAC era; Kyle's teams only managed TWO AP Top 25 finishes.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 11:07 a.m.

    "Excluding 2008, Whittingham-coached teams have a 16-16 record in games entering the fourth quarter separated by one possession"

    "Omitting 2008, he’s 20-28 and subtracting bowl games further, he's 14-27 (31 percent)."
    -----------

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Omitting facts that weaken your point in order to strengthen your point???

    If you want to write an article about Kyle Whittingham struggling in the PAC-12, have at it. But let's don't leave out Kyle's best so that his worst looks worse so that your point appears stronger.

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 11:09 a.m.

    This article is not the best comparison. It is the reverse of the old joke, "Well other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play."

    I am a BYU fan, but like all the local teams. The author uses faulty logic and more faulty statistics to make an excellent coach look bad. Take away their best season, and all the bowl games? Those are only the most important games played by any school in the State. This must be a slow news week..

    "There are three types of lies: Lies, (darn) lies, and statistics" - Mark Twain

    (Good luck Utah.)

    Go Cougs!

  • UteMiguel Go Utes, CA
    Nov. 6, 2013 11:21 a.m.

    Only a BYU fan would start a comment with the words "head to head results are MEANINGLESS". It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 6, 2013 12:06 p.m.

    UteMiguel

    "Only a BYU fan would start a comment with the words "head to head results are MEANINGLESS"."

    Only a Utah fan would intentionally ignore the pertinent qualifier "head-to-head record is meaningless ON A NATIONAL SCALE"

    Which team was BETTER in 2012, the team that won the head-to-head between Alabama and Texas A&M, or the team that won the undisputed NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, garnering EVERY first-place vote in the AP and Coaches polls?

    Kyle is 6-3 versus Bronco head-to-head.
    Bronco is 5-3 (soon to be 6-3) in overall record and RANKING.

    Was UNLV(2-10) better than Utah(9-4)?
    Was Colorado(3-10) better than Utah(8-5)?

    Is Utah(4-4) better than Stanford((7-1)?

    If Utah is better, why is Stanford ranked #5 BCS, #6 AP, and #6 Coaches,
    while Utah is ranked #45 BCS, and didn't receive a single vote in the AP or Coaches polls?

    Please explain why that's so funny.

  • scott Alpine, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 12:14 p.m.

    chris b

    "Simply being in the top 25 isn't all that impressive, 25 teams do it ever year."

    If finishing in the AP Top 25 is such a meaningless, mediocre achievement, why haven't the Utes have only been able to accomplish this "meaningless, mediocre achievement" more than FIVE times in their entire history?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 6, 2013 12:15 p.m.

    @talkinsports

    If Kyle's bowl wins were really as impressive as you pretend they were, why did the pollsters completely ignore the Utes in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2010 and 2011?

    --------------

    Because those Ute teams were mediocre at best, when did I claim they were great Ute teams?

    Even the 2010 team that finished #26 AP and #23 Coaches was a disappointing team, losing to the only 3 teams that matter that year (TCU, ND, Boise).

    That still doesn't take away from the fact that they were good bowl wins, over teams that were as good or better.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 12:16 p.m.

    @majmajor

    "...I am a BYU fan, but like all the local teams. The author uses faulty logic and more faulty statistics to make an excellent coach look bad...".

    Well the authors name is Trevor Phibbs.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 12:18 p.m.

    DN,

    bronco and byu have similar stats but if you wrote the same article about byu, you would spin it as fluff. Why? I understand all the byu fluff articles but why so much negative spin on the Utes?
    Are you guys still mad because Kyle refused the byu job?

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 12:35 p.m.

    What is the agenda against Coach Whitt? He never says anything negative about any team or player or coach. He tells is like it is in complete sentences. He takes full responsibility for every loss, explains what went wrong without using excuses.

    Playing in the MWC meant that you had to play many games against subpar records, big deal.

    I guess his decision to stay on the hill vs. going around the point still stings to some.

    Nothing to see here, move along.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 12:45 p.m.

    @TroyTown

    Was UNLV(2-10) better than Utah(9-4)?
    Was Colorado(3-10) better than Utah(8-5)?

    Is Utah(4-4) better than Stanford((7-1)?

    If Utah is better, why is Stanford ranked #5 BCS, #6 AP, and #6 Coaches
    ---------

    These comparisons are meaningless. They would be meaningful if UNLV and Colorado had beaten Utah 4 in a row, and Utah had beaten Stanford 4 years in a row, and 5 out of the last 6. Since that is not the case, comparing UNLV, Colorado, and Stanford to Utah is meaningless.

    One game here and there is meaningless. 4 in a row, and 5 out of the last 6 is completely different.

  • scott Alpine, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 12:47 p.m.

    Uteology

    "That still doesn't take away from the fact that they were good bowl wins, over teams that were as good or better."

    It also solidifies the logical conclusion that one win, no matter how impressive, does not a season make.

    Overall, Bronco's teams have been better than Kyle's teams in 5 of the 8 previous seasons.

    What makes one mediocre team beating another mediocre team more meaningful just because it happened in a bowl?

    What makes Utah's 30-27 OT win versus #56 Georgia Tech(8-5) in El Paso in 2011 more impressive than BYU's 41-17 win at #46 Georgia Tech(7-7) in 2012?

    The Yellow Jackets that barely lost to the Utes in the Sun Bowl in 2011, stomped the Trojans 21-7 in the Sun Bowl in 2012.

    Of the two, BYU's win over Georgia Tech was obviously much more impressive than Utah's.

  • scott Alpine, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 12:51 p.m.

    81Ute

    "Playing in the MWC meant that you had to play many games against subpar records, big deal."

    Kyle also lost to many of those teams with subpar records in the MWC - Wyoming, CSU, UNLV and New Mexico - just as he's doing in the PAC, see Colorado.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 6, 2013 1:08 p.m.

    Fluff piece:

    "BYU football's top-10 biggest road wins in school history"
    "Let's hope the mantle of McMahon descends on Taysom Hill against Wisconsin"

    Hard core journalism:

    "Utah football: 60% of Kyle Whittingham's wins come against losing teams"
    "Commentary: Utes will come short of a bowl game, and the program will regress"

    We understand BYU football is 7 plays from being 21-0 while Utah has been struggling since leaving the MWC. But to hasn't done diddly then claim Georgia Tech and Cal were bad teams is just spin.

    * Georgia Tech did not lose 3 of last 4, they won 2 of last 4:

    Wake Forest (4-7) 30-17 W
    @ Virginia (7-5) 27-17 L
    @Miami #17 (9-3) 14-10 W
    Georgia #10 (10-3) 7-14 L

    They won 4 of last 6 and also beat #14 Auburn 23-14.

    Utah 38
    #23 Georgia Tech 10

    * Cal came in winning 5 of 7 and were ranked #19 in week 14 before losing to a bad team at Washington.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 1:17 p.m.

    I love how an article on Kyle becomes the same old BYU / Utah bashing session, with selective facts being regurgitated by the same posters.

    We are lucky to have two solid coaches within 45 minutes of each other.

    Is Kyle going to be able to make the Utes competative in the PAC? Even with the help of Chow and Ericson (and Co-BJ), that's the question.

    Utah fans might just need to get over the man-crush and decide if they want to keep comparing him to Bronco to feel good, or get competative in the PAC. May need to let go of the past and look to the future, because reality tells us the future, at this point does not look too bright. Utes are squandering an opportunity to get out of the basement.

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 1:30 p.m.

    @scott
    Since overtime was instantiated, every game produces a team the loases and a team that wins; zero sum (look it up).
    Every coach/team loses games that leave people scratching their heads, it is the nature of the beast.
    The Utes must have something going for them they were part of an expansion of PAC, the first in over 30 years and Coach Whitt had much to do with that.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 1:45 p.m.

    Utes Fan

    "These comparisons are meaningless. They would be meaningful if UNLV and Colorado had beaten Utah 4 in a row"

    Since when does a win in the previous season have any bearing whatsoever on the current season?

  • SlopJ30 St Louis, MO
    Nov. 6, 2013 1:45 p.m.

    Chris seemed particularly upset by this article given how quickly and frequently he responded. That alone makes the article worthwhile. More, please, DN!

    And, please, own it, Chris. Meaning, just admit that you view every game, every statistic, every article, and every utterance regarding college sports from the standpoint of "how can I spin this to bash BYU?" You act like you're driven by pure logic and information.

    To that, I respond by speaking your language: "LOL!"

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    81Ute

    "Since overtime was instantiated [sic], every game produces a team the loases [sic] and a team that wins; zero sum (look it up)."

    huh? that didn't even make any sense.

    The Utes were included in the PAC expansion because the Utes had great research, an untapped television market near the PAC footprint, weren't a private, religious school, and had a serviceable football program - it had NOTHING to do with the quality of Utah's flash-in-the-pan football program that had never won a single national team or player award and only had five lifetime AP Top 25 finishes.

    btw, if rankings are meaningless, why do Utah fans continue to beat their chests about all of the "ranked" teams Utah beat in 2008? How do we know that Alabama was really any good if Crimson Tide lost to a non-power conference team that wasn't even ranked the previous season?

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 2:04 p.m.

    @UtahUte72

    Utah and BYU face very similar schedules in the number of quality opponents faced this year, though Utah has faced a slightly tougher schedule to date. The difference will be who will have more quality wins at the end of the season than the other team.

    Here is the list of wins in order of strength. Both teams need to win MORE.

    1 Utah over #5 Stanford
    2 BYU over #15 Texas
    3 Utah over @BYU
    4 BYU over undefeated @Houston
    5 BYU over Boise State
    6 BYU over USU
    7 BYU over Georgia Tech
    8 Utah over USU
    9 BYU over MTS
    10 Utah over Weber State

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Nov. 6, 2013 2:08 p.m.

    @Utah Ute 72
    I definitely think that Utah has the tougher schedule. I will admit it and they have been respectable when it comes to that.
    But BYU only playing 2-3 quality games? Who are the quality games?
    Texas, Notre Dame, and Wisconsin? Utah is no longer a quality game?
    BYU has on their schedule 9 (possibly 10 if Utah gets a bowl bid) bowl teams on their schedule. To many quality teams make bowls, good teams get a ranking, and great teams are in the top 10 or make BCS bowls.
    BYU has one of the toughest schedules in the nation. Utah's is better but to say that they are only playing 2-3 quality games sure makes the Utes look bad because they are on the lower end (rankings wise) of BYU's schedule.
    Have a good day.

  • Just Smiling BOUNTIFUL, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 2:19 p.m.

    Really, really, really, really tired of D-News negative articles against Utah. Instead of looking at an OT loss to nationally ranked Oregon State, a 7 point loss to nationally ranked UCLA, a win over top 5 Stanford, 4th year in a row win over BYU, the focus is on take aways and turnovers and wins against losing teams. Meanwhile the same day is the special bond between Bronco and Anderson and BYU top 10 biggest wins in HISTORY. No wonder D-News won an EPPY award. Forcing Utah fans to defend themselves while stroking BYU fans into a frenzy of self importance while playing inferior teams will cause a huge response. Write enough comments about your win - loss records even though you aren't playing in the top conference in the nation and you will begin to believe you're a national contender. Way to feed the frenzy D-News, cheap, unfair, biased, but hey- effective. Oh and you encourage a civil dialogue. Right!.

  • LoveTheKittens Central, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 2:46 p.m.

    @scott
    You are not comparing common teams, every years team is different. Incredible.

  • 81Ute Central, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 2:50 p.m.

    @Truth Machine
    Sorry about that fat finger on loses.

    Who said anything about rankings?

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 2:58 p.m.

    Just smiling, if you want to see the scales tipped in the opposite direction go on over to the Trib. You can find all the pro-Ute and anti-BYU stuff you want there.

    The main difference between here and there is they allow commenters to post equally while here a comment gets denied as "off topic or disruptive" even though it's a direct quote of a previously approved comment. Your beef is with the DNews' civil dialogue policy. Mine is with the blatantly inconsistent screening of comments.

    99 out of every 100 comments from Chris B could easily be tagged 'disruptive', Yet they get approved, in droves, every day of the week.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 4:46 p.m.

    This article, written by an actual utah student and homer, has gotten all of the other utah "fans" in complete meltdown mode. Very funny stuff.

    LOL!

  • AKFan JUNEAU, AK
    Nov. 6, 2013 7:42 p.m.

    I for one like and admire Coach Whittingham for the absolute class act he presents week in and week out as a Coach. Any thinking person had to realize that entering the PAC-12 from the Mountain West would be a rough road. By my estimation if Utah should for some reason lose their minds and drop Whit, I predict they will continue to struggle and perhaps prolong the misery. In the interest of full disclosure, I am a BYU fan but I have immense respect for Coach Whittingham. I hope to see him at the Utah helm as long as he wants to be there.

    Go Coach Whit.

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2013 9:48 p.m.

    Meaningless statistics without context. Compare him to all the coaches in the PAC, or to BYU, USU and Boise. Better still, do a multi-varient analysis, and give us the R2. Factor in other inputs, like recruiting stars. Does he do better or worse than coaches with similar talent? Win-Loss isn't apples to apples. Comparing the record of opponents who played a BCS schedule against the W/L of a team with a MAC schedule. Even comparing W/L against BCS schools isn't apple to apples. W/L against the Big East? That isn't even as meaningful as a good W/L in the MWC. W/L against the bottom feeders of the BCS isn't even an apples to apples "BCS" comparison. Someone in the SEC has to play both great and pathetic teams. (All of the Whosit State teams the SEC teams play AT HOME. (8 home games each).

  • byufanman west valley city, utah
    Nov. 6, 2013 10:14 p.m.

    Nope! Utah fans keep whit. This BYU fan is extremely satisfied with Bronco, and I'm sure I speak for the majority of the BYU nation.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Nov. 7, 2013 2:06 a.m.

    When byu has the guts to schedule a real/legitimate back-to-back-to-back, week-in, week-out grind of a schedule, can we then compare records. Not to mention, they lose to us, annually, as well.

    I wouldn't trade our SOS as part of our proud PAC-12 membership for anything whatsoever, mind you, as we now play against primarily Power Conference. schools and in doing so we'll always have the potential for the significantly greater reward....Not to mention that, being the genuine competitors we are, we more than welcome this opportunity and its inherent-challenges....It's the optimal method in striving for self-improvement.

    The sign of cowardice is to choose the easier, softer way, ripe with carefully placed bye-weeks/weak-competition in between the tougher games for fear of failure/being exposed for the fraudulent existence they live,....The end-goal is to proclaim superiority over others who've unequivocally proven entirely 100% otherwise.

    The U/tcu are transitioning upward these days while we expectantly take our lumps....byu's still transitioning into Independence, right along w/fellow newcomers/longtime opponents, Idaho/NMSU, as well as Old dominion.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    Nov. 7, 2013 2:10 a.m.

    Regarding Coach KW--

    I think you have to give Utah at least four seasons in the Pac-12 -- a full class cycle -- before you can start passing judgment on Whittingham. Remember, not only are they adjusting to a higher level of play every week, but they need a grace period to re-work how they operate their program. Utah is seeing television money never thought possible in the Mountain West, and part of the learning curve is figuring out the proper way to appropriate that funding. Hiring Dennis Erickson is a great start -- a move they never would have been able to make financially in a non-AQ conference. Nor would a non-AQ team be able to attract a big-name coach like Erickson to be a coordinator. Let the money sink in, let the new facilities work their magic on recruits and if Utah has a four- or five-year bowl drought, then you can open up discussions. But Whittingham -- who I believe to be an outstanding coach -- should be sitting on ice for now.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 8:31 a.m.

    Pretty spot on with everything with maybe one exception, the Alabama team they faced in the 2009 Sugar Bowl was also a downtrodden team. They had spent most of the year ranked #1 and had expected all year to play in the BCS title game only to lose in the SEC CCG to Florida. They were an emotionally devastated, disconsolate and downtrodden team when they played the Utes in the Sugar Bowl and did not get up for that game. Their play in that game showed that, especially their play in the 1st quarter.

    This stuff should come as no surprise to anyone. Kyle's coaching style employs lots of gimmicks, tricks and emotion. In the past they could get away with it because they only had 2-3 games spread out over the season that they had to get up for, the rest of the schedule were MWC patsies like UNLV, Wyoming, etc.

    He and the Utes got a rude awakening when they found out they can't fool Pac12 teams w/tricks week in and week out or rely on over-hyped emotions to give them an edge in every game. It's simply unsustainable.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 8:38 a.m.

    I think Kyle's over-reliance on getting his team over-charged emotionally to win big games only to suffer letdowns after is exemplified in his Pac12 conference record in the month following the BYU game now that it's no longer played the last week of the season. He is 1-11 in conference play in the month following the BYU game (the lone win this season when they exposed an overrated Stanford team and caught them napping).

    Utah's play in those games are characteristically filled with silly mistakes, sloppy play, serious lack of energy on defense, dumb penalties and lots of turnovers. Its quite a turnabout with the way they get fired up to play BYU and are sharp with their execution and play with tons of emotional energy. It seems to leave them very flat afterwards for weeks and isn't until they get into November before they get it together again and finish strong. No wonder Kyle was so desperate to stop playing BYU early in the season. It exposes his deficiencies as a Head Coach. This year (for the 3rd year in a row in the Pac12) is no different.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 8:51 a.m.

    @UteMiguel
    "True blue, please also let us know their head to head record. Thanks in advance."

    Mig,
    Isn't that a big part of Kyle's problem as a HC? He appears to have his priorities a little mixed up and gets his teams thoroughly prepared to play BYU every year then goes flat and his teams look lethargic and unprepared in the weeks after. For his own sake he needs to treat the rivalry game as just another game and place way more emphasis with his game prep on conference games yet the proof is in the pudding. He makes BYU his bowl game every year and now it's biting him in the rear.

    @TrueBlue

    nice breakdown of stats, of your whole list Chris B nitpicked one thing and ignored the mountain of evidence.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 9:12 a.m.

    @azute

    Why is it that utah has such a higly ranked SOS but oregon and stanford do not? I'll tell you why, when you are a bottom feeder in a conference like the pac12 some of the teams you play are very good and highly ranked, teams like oregon. But when you are a top team in a conference like the pac12 most of the teams you play, teams like utah, are very poor and so your sos is much weaker than the sos of the bottom feeders that play you. utah hurts their sos.

    Of course scheduling ooc can affect your sos as well and in utah's case having BYU and usu on its ooc schedule has helped raise it to a very high level. Alternately utah has been pretty much neutral to usu's ooc and has been a detriment to BYU's ooc despite utah beating them.

    You post on here as if you are knowledgable and some sort of authority but it is really apparent by your posts that you don't know some really basic stuff.

  • papi_chulo Ogden, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    Ahahahahaha....this article was the best thing I have read all day. I loved it! Thanks Trevor for writing the article and DNews for publishing it. You have put a smile on my face.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 10:01 a.m.

    @BigCougar

    "Alabama team they faced in the 2009 Sugar Bowl was also a downtrodden team."

    -------------
    Nonsense. Utah took advantage of the only weakness that Alabama team had: using an up-tempo offense that put 21 up on them early and Alabama could not come back from that. If Alabama was a "downtrodden team", then Texas was a "downtrodden team" this year and BYU's victory over them is not impressive. You can't have your Cougar cake and eat it too.

    "He makes BYU his bowl game every year and now it's biting him in the rear."
    ------------
    Nonsense again. It was BYU players who said that playing Utah this year was their "Super Bowl". And yet, Kyle really doesn't want to play BYU, so now they are taking a 2-year break - definitely NOT Kyle's bowl game.

    "No wonder Kyle was so desperate to stop playing BYU early in the season. It exposes his deficiencies as a Head Coach."
    ------------
    After beating a team 4 in a row, and 5 out of 6, you think that exposes "deficiencies". REALLY??? Utah experienced some injuries after BYU, and THAT is the reason for struggles.

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 10:08 a.m.

    Duckster

    Kudos to your research. Good to see you're still on the up and up on all things Utah Utes. That being said, this article holds little to no significance whatsoever. Like the poster who referenced Mark Twain - "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

    I suppose statistics may help "fans" who are currently 0-4 against their bitter rivals, sleep a little more soundly at night.

  • slcjimmy SLC, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 10:46 a.m.

    98.9% of people outside Utah & Idaho believe "YBU" is a division II program. Just as your star running back thought. LOL!!!

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Nov. 7, 2013 10:53 a.m.

    @ slcjimmy
    Where are you getting your numbers from?
    I would like to see plausible intelligent evidence.

  • slcjimmy SLC, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    How pathetic! No reason to deny my previous retort towards "BeSmart" Oh that's right it was based both on logic & facts!

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Nov. 7, 2013 12:34 p.m.

    slcjimmy
    Logic I do not see the logic in your stat.
    Fact? I am asking you where you got the facts from.
    No need to be persnickety just looking for the research for your argument

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Nov. 7, 2013 12:46 p.m.

    2 percent of the U.S. population is LDS. My guess they know BYU is Div 1.
    Then all of the former MWC schools fan bases know.
    Many other followers of fan bases know.
    I do not see the logic and fact in your argument.

  • Sportsman Salt Lake, Ut
    Nov. 7, 2013 1:30 p.m.

    This same concept was written about Bronco before the season so don't get crazy Utah/BYU fans.The article states the record. Nothing more nothing less. You can take it any way you want and spin it in multiple ways, but is still only a reference piece that calls for thoughts by the readers (mission accomplished by looks of this board). The real concern is that both Utah and BYU fans are way too defensive of any perceived slight. What Utah/BYU supporters have to do is shake yourselves and take a close look at both teams. They are close to being great but too much inconsistency from both of them relegates them to the #20-#40 ranking for overall programs nationwide. Really good by most standards but not elite. Most rational fans will look at both football teams and realize the shortcomings and hope for more. Don't shoot the messenger, the author is only pointing to the record. The real key will be those fan bases who can analyze and judge their own teams and call out faults and praise qualities. Otherwise you are written off by the masses as a myopic fool.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 7, 2013 1:29 p.m.

    Stat of the Day:

    BYU football in the MWC: 70.13% of Bronco Mendenhall's wins come against losing teams

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 7, 2013 1:59 p.m.

    BYU football: 64.36% of Bronco Mendenhall's wins come against losing teams

    * Includes all wins over D2 teams, all are counted as winning teams
    * Includes all wins this year, all are assumed to be winning teams

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 7, 2013 2:18 p.m.

    @BigCougar

    Pretty spot on with everything with maybe one exception, the Alabama team they faced in the 2009 Sugar Bowl was also a downtrodden team.

    They had spent most of the year ranked #1 and had expected all year to play in the BCS title game only to lose in the SEC CCG to Florida.

    They were an emotionally devastated, disconsolate and downtrodden team when they played the Utes in the Sugar Bowl and did not get up for that game.

    Their play in that game showed that, especially their play in the 1st quarter.

    ------------

    Nice spin job, do you work for Fox?

    Are you also willing to go on record and claim that AP #16 Oregon State, your best bowl victory since 1996, was also "emotionally devastated, disconsolate, and downtrodden" after losing the Civil War and the Rose Bowl berth three weeks prior to BYU dismantling them in Vegas?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 7, 2013 3:07 p.m.

    My bad, my data was off.

    Here's the data for comparison, Bronco's record excluding this year:

    103 Games: 74 wins and 29 loses (72%)

    * 28 wins against winning teams (including 3 D2 teams)
    * 38% of the total wins were against winning teams

    * 46 wins against losing teams (including 2 D2 teams)
    * 62% of the total wins were against losing teams

    The SOS... the 103 teams had a combine win-loss record of 648-635 (50.5%).

    I think that puts things in perspective.

    Go UTES!!

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 4:34 p.m.

    @Big Cougar

    "2009 Sugar Bowl was also a downtrodden team.

    They had spent most of the year ranked #1 and had expected all year to play in the BCS title game only to lose in the SEC CCG to Florida.

    They were an emotionally devastated, disconsolate and downtrodden team when they played the Utes in the Sugar Bowl and did not get up for that game. "

    Man, you'd think Nick Saban could get his team up for a Championship game with all that time to prepare. I mean, they said they were up for the game. They looked like they were up for the game. They battled back from 21 down to almost tie things up before Utah pulled away. Good thing we have expert cougar fans here who aren't jealous at all, to set the record straight.

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    Nov. 7, 2013 9:28 p.m.

    @ Chris B - Salt Lake City, UT - "True Blue, Simply being in the top 25 isn't all that impressive, 25 teams do it ever year."

    Puh-leeeeease.

    Chris B, at least TRY to be a tiny bit objective.

    It isn't just "being" in the Top 25 at the end of the year, it's being in the top 25 at the end of the year somewhat CONSISTENTLY that matters.

    Utah has done it twice in the Whittingham era.

    BYU has done it four times in the (same) Mendenhall era.

    Now, you tell me, which one is CONSISTENTLY a better team?

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 11:16 p.m.

    Uteology

    No matter how much you slice and dice stats to help you sleep at night, it will never change the fact that Bronco's teams have been ranked higher than Kyle's teams 5 of the last 8 seasons, soon to be 6 of the last 9.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 8, 2013 12:10 a.m.

    LonestarRunner
    Salt Lake City, UT

    Uteology

    No matter how much you slice and dice stats to help you sleep at night, it will never change the fact that Bronco's teams have been ranked higher than Kyle's teams 5 of the last 8 seasons, soon to be 6 of the last 9.

    -------------

    I could care less where BYU is ranked by beating cupcakes. I love that fact that BYU can't compete with Utah on the field.

    No matter how much you cry about where the judges rank your team the FACT still remains we OWN you.

    I understand we lack PAC-12 talent and depth. I also understand that we OWN teams like BYU: 33-6 in the MWC and 8-1 since joining the PAC-12.

    I can live with that.

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 8, 2013 3:55 p.m.

    "I could care less where BYU is ranked by beating cupcakes. I love that fact that BYU can't compete with Utah on the field."

    Amen, Uteology! I agree completely.

    Go Utes!

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 8, 2013 4:43 p.m.

    Uteology

    "I could care less where BYU is ranked by beating cupcakes."

    Don't kid yourself; you care immensely that no matter how many ways you come up with to slice and dice statistics to help you sleep at night, at the end of the day, the rest of the country still considers BYU to be BETTER than U.

    Despite Utah's head-to-head win in September:

    Current BCS Rankings
    #27 BYU(6-2)
    #45 Utah(4-4)

    Chances of BYU finishing in the final Top 25 - decent
    Chances of Utah finishing in the final Top 25 - NONE

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 8, 2013 4:52 p.m.

    @ Chris B.:

    You said it well. Here's your direct quote, which was obviously meant as another obsession driven dig at BYU:
    "Simply being in the top 25 isn't all that impressive, 25 teams do it every year."

    And yet the Utes seldom ever do it... and haven't done so in a number of years. That's truly is not so impressive.

    And what's truly interesting to see how defensive certain fans (Chris B, Uncle Rico, JohnInSLC, azute and a few other higher emotion Ute fans) get when presented with Ute facts not so flattering. And even more-so when they keep trying to make justification comparisons to BYU. It seems that the anti-BYU obsession must be getting somewhat contagious on the hill.

    @ UteMiguel:

    Picking a very small number of statistics and then applying them out of context actually proves nothing at all. Except for maybe that you would benefit greatly from taking a Statistical Analysis class next semester. Obtaining a greater understanding of applied numbers is always a positive thing. I wish you well with that.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 8, 2013 5:19 p.m.

    @ Samurai Jake:

    Interesting, and yet somewhat sad how you, Uteology and slcjimmy use every limited statistic you can find against BYU (usually taken out of context) all season long, but when an article comes out with a complete statistical analysis exposoing Utah's coach and team performance, you suddenly contend that statistics mean nothing. You literally make me laugh at the irony and hypocrisy.

    The 4-0 record Utah has against BYU in the last 4 years (1-3 in the preceding 4 years) is the only card left on the table for Utah fans to play. Everything else has slowly slipped away. And now desperate Ute fans are striking out at BYU with a lot of defensiveness and apparent jealousy.

    Taking full seasons into consideration and not just a single game each year, BYU has finished ranked in the nation's top 25 3 of the last 4 years. Utah... 0-4. That telling stat should mean more to Ute fans than their record with just one team... BYU. Since it obviously doesn't, it does make those fans appear truly obsessed with BYU... a real (though unintended) compliment to BYU and their fans.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Nov. 8, 2013 5:29 p.m.

    @ Uteology:

    As of when I'm writing this, you have posted 5 of the last 8 comments to this article. And every single one of them mentions BYU and makes comparisons to them. That is unquestionably and undoubtedly an obsession... perhaps even to the level of Chris B.

    is that really the only way you can try to rationalize how Utah is currently doing? Overall, it's quite a compliment to BYU that comparing to them seems to be the only way for you to define U. Ever considered sports counseling? Just a thought.

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 8, 2013 5:51 p.m.

    Tators

    I'm sure you mean well. But seriously, you don't need to try so hard.

    As a self-reflection, honestly, how defensive have you been every single time your cougers have lost to my Utes for the past four years in a row? It's truly interesting to see how far you will stretch to try and prove that your cougers are somehow better than my Utes, despite their inability to actually beat them on the field.

    0-4 must be a hard pill to swallow, I get it. But no need to get so defensive when presented with that not so flattering Coug fact. They might win again, someday...!

    Go Utes!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 8, 2013 6:31 p.m.

    Tators
    Hyrum, UT

    @ Uteology:

    As of when I'm writing this, you have posted 5 of the last 8 comments to this article. And every single one of them mentions BYU and makes comparisons to them. That is unquestionably and undoubtedly an obsession... perhaps even to the level of Chris B.

    -----------

    Try keeping up. The article "slice and diced statistics" to spin Kyles record. I gave Bronoc's stats to give perspective to show how meaningless this article was.

    And then comes along one Cougar Nation member after another trying to change the subject from "62% of Bronco Mendenhall's wins come against losing teams" to how better BYU because one snap shot of rankings say so.

    I have no doubt in my mind that a team that competes with Utah and TCU who is 0-8 against both would get pummeled in the PAC-12 and Big 12.

    BYU has a chance to prove it field against Wisconsin and Notre Dame and maybe USC in the bowl game. If you I'll give you props, just like I have in 2006, 2007, and 2009. When clearly BYU was the better team.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 8, 2013 6:42 p.m.

    Tators
    Hyrum, UT

    @ Samurai Jake:

    Interesting, and yet somewhat sad how you, Uteology and slcjimmy use every limited statistic you can find against BYU (usually taken out of context) all season long, but when an article comes out with a complete statistical analysis exposoing Utah's coach and team performance, you suddenly contend that statistics mean nothing. You literally make me laugh at the irony and hypocrisy.

    ------------

    I did no such thing, the article did by ignoring the 2008 season to spin a point.

    I gave the entire sample size, Broncos win-loss for each and ever season and each and every game. I did not include this this season considering the season is still ongoing.

    I provided Bronco's stats to compare and to prove how meaningless this article is:

    * Over 103 games
    * 28 wins against winning teams (including 3 D2 teams)
    * 46 wins against losing teams (including 2 D2 teams)
    * 62% of the total wins were against losing teams

    What I can't understand is why are you still trying to defend the bogus article.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 8, 2013 7:05 p.m.

    @Truth Machine

    Current BCS Rankings
    #27 BYU(6-2)
    #45 Utah(4-4)

    Chances of BYU finishing in the final Top 25 - decent
    Chances of Utah finishing in the final Top 25 - NONE

    ---------------

    And you think your chances of finishing in the final Top 25 against our opponents would be "decent"?

    BYU has not beat a SINGLE final ranked Big 5 team since 1996. When your starting RB was in diapers, 17 years ago.

    But BYU fans think that they would beat these still ranked teams: #23 ASU, #19 UCLA, #5 Stanford, #3 @Oregon?

    On top of that beat a Utah a team they are 3-9 against, @USC a team they've never beaten, @Arizona, and OSU?

    Moreover, with your current talent (over the last three years) your only wins were against PAC-12 3-9 teams.

    You'll have a chance to prove me wrong, against Wisconsin, Notre Dame, and maybe USC.

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    Nov. 8, 2013 9:26 p.m.

    Where will Whit coach next ?

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 8, 2013 9:26 p.m.

    Uteology

    Utah wouldn't stand a chance of finishing in the Top 25 playing BYU's schedule.

    Utah is WINLESS against Texas, Houston, Boise State, and Notre Dame.
    Utah lost to the Aggies the last time U played in Logan.
    Utah wouldn't stand a chance of beating Wisconsin in Camp Randall.
    Utah barely beat Georgia Tech by 3 points in OT the last time you played them.

    That's six to seven losses playing BYU's schedule - right about where Utah will finish playing their own schedule.

  • SSmith Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 8, 2013 9:33 p.m.

    Pretty sure this article was about Kyle, not Bronco or BYU.

    The insecurity of Utah fans is evident.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 9, 2013 6:40 p.m.

    @True Blue

    You can't compare Bronco's record against PAC 12 schools with Whitt. Utah had the best record against BCS schools in comparison with any other mid major (TCU, Boise State and BYU included) from 2000-2010. Once Utah went into the PAC 12 and played these programs week in and week out you saw the winning percentage plummet. TCU has experienced the same thing in the BIG 10. BYU plays cupcakes for half their schedule and then is fresher for the big games, which they still lose. They lost to Utah after a bye week, lost to Wisconsin after a bye week, and would fare no better with Utah's schedule. I mean playing Virginia, GT, Houston, middle Tennessee, Idaho, and Nevada is a joke. Try Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Arizona State and so on.

  • slcjimmy SLC, UT
    Nov. 9, 2013 8:08 p.m.

    Does @ Tators work for DN? Absolutely pathetic one dimensional journalism by DN. Every other Ute post is denied by screeners! I'm I the only one with this problem Ute fans? Prove me wrong DN & allow this post. Let's see if I'm correct? I dare you? Show me you're a legitimate & credible news source!

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 10, 2013 12:13 a.m.

    slcjimmy

    Trevor Phibbs, author of the article, is currently senior at the University of Utah.

    Quit trying to shoot the messenger, just because you don't like the message.

  • slcjimmy SLC, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    @ Uteanymous...How would anyone including yourself even know what my message was since of course it was denied by DN...How many universities in this state belong to a BCS conference and a power one on top of it? Oh that's right..One! How many times in the last 12 meetings has your cougies beat The U? That's right 3 times. How many wins do your cougies have in last 4 meetings? That's right ZERO! Has your university found a conference better yet a BCS power conference? That's right...NO! Now let's see whom shoots the messenger now? That's right...You!

  • Johnny, JRU Riverton, UT
    Nov. 10, 2013 1:10 p.m.

    Reading comments about a Piece on BYU or on The Utes is sooo draining! These two colleges are better described as cousins instead of brothers! Each have more connections to each other than the extremes on both sides like to admit! Alumni from the UofU include Lavell Edwards, Stephen Covey, President Hinkley, & President Monson. Former Men that were involved in BYU Football that have or are currently running the Utes, Kyle and Norm Chow to name a few. Taking jabs at Kyle by Cougars fans is only discrediting the powers that be that are in control of BYU and it's direction. Kyle was offered the head BYU coaching job after the leaders of the program put a lot of time and due diligence in coming to that conclusion. Being a Cougar or a Ute fan doesn't make you better or worse in the overall scheme of things! Because of the hatred on both sides I find myself cheering for all teams in Utah to be successful! Obviously God cares about all the players and coaches on both sides. I am pretty sure if God had a team... they would always have a perfect record. Kindness,Pass it on