whoops!I still think Logan wins this one
It should not be interpreted that because "two referees threw" their
flag on the play that they both saw it.It is obvious and known that
ref's throw their flag when they see their buddy throw one. THAT way it
appears if they both saw it. Watch closely the next time you see any game and
your see "bang-bang" flags ALL the time!!! It is the
'official' unofficial way to coaches and fans from thinking only one
I want to see footage of the "kick" before I form an opinion.
Good sportsmanship and following the rules is more important than playing a
game.This kid can still go to college, still play sports, and still have a
great life without play in in one game.Heck, he could even want to
be a referee in the future just to be sure that every call is 100% accurate and
never worthy of being challenged.Would everyone be this concerned if
the guy who drew the two simultaneous flags was a little known lineman on a
losing team not in the playoffs?
I saw the video... Slowed it down. The kid did nothing wrong.
Bottom line, is the young man physically okay? How severe is his knee injury?
Either the article didn't do enough to share the officials' side, or
the officials didn't feel like they needed to justify anything... Which I
think is their biggest problem. Everyone that saw the video commented that it
didn't look bad. We've all seen athletes throw punches or cheap shots
and this obviously wasn't one of those situations, and yet the officials
still hide behind their rigid interpretation of a rule that clearly wasn't
violated with intent. If they can't distinguish a difference between
someone actually throwing a punch/kick with intent and someone simply kicking
out a leg then how can we trust them to make any sound judgment calls? The
officials are obviously being stubborn and feel like they are bigger than the
game. It's sad that we allow this to happen. It's even more sad that
the presiding officials act like they're disappointed for the player and
are helpless to do anything about it when clearly they have the ability to make
It's interesting that coaches have to defer all medical situations to the
medical trainers and doctors. Especially now with concussions where the uhsaa
even forces all football coaches to watch a video about concussions and then the
uhsaa can just dismiss medical advice at will in a case like this. Not only
dismiss the advice but question it. If a coach did that they would be fired
and potentially sued. The uhsaa is above policy and law.
The UHSAA is a complete joke! This is ridiculous, why have the officials not
stepped up after watching the film and admitted to over reaction on this play? I
watched it several times on You Tube, this kid should NOT be suspended and
should NOT have been ejected. Period.
Told you so.Feel bad, but after he got his first one, the refs may
have been watching for it.I still think Logan wins-barely.
Based on the severity of the injury described by the medical professional, it
sounds like he should probably sit out a game so as not to risk further injury.
I can't imagine a coach with so much concern over his player being hurt
would jeopardize his well being by subjecting him to further injury. Sounds like
the decision made by the officials is immaterial. The coach would obviously put
the kid's safety first anyway.
Without Chase Nelson, Logan will lose this game. Olympus is a very underrated
and will surprise a lot of people this Friday.
Interesting comment up in Logan...." This is the same Dr. Goble
who is a family friend of the Nelson's and wrote an e-mail back in 2008
criticizing USU for the events behind Riley Nelson leaving USU to go to BYU (It
was all USU's fault and not Riley's).If I was the UHSAA I
wouldn't listen to the comments from the Nelson's family friend
either. Sounds like these Nelson boys like to make stupid decisions and then
have daddy and his friends defend them. Take some responsibility for your
Here's the irony of the entire situation; the coach uses the doctor's
report to show the player's knee is injured and thusly should not be
suspended as the action was an involuntary reaction to injury. They even go on
the detail the extent of the injury. However, if the ruling had been reversed,
all thought or concern of the injury would be thrown out the window and the kid
would be playing in the game. So, which is it, the kid actually hurt his knee
quite badly, or he actually kicked at the other player because the knee
isn't hurt too severely? You can't have it both ways. The
coach and doctor's motives need to be reviewed, what they seem to be saying
is: "the knee is injured, so let him play".
If anybody has ever played a sport in their life they would understand that
injuries happen all of the time in contact sports like football and basketball.
Very few of the injuries are severe enough to pull someone from a game. We
aren't talking about soccer here! Karl Malone and John Stockton were
great examples of playing through pain and minor injuries. Just because an
athlete has a minor sprain, tear, contusion, etc. doesn't mean they are
ultimately injured enough to pull themselves from a game. Maybe they are and
maybe they aren't. Doctors and trainers should determine that and not
fans, haters, or even the UHSAA.
@Kimmy P - - That is spot on! That brings into question of how much integrity
does the Logan coaching staff have? If you look at twitter, their coaches are
going on such a rant about this that their integrity and respect that everyone
has talked about them having is waning.
Good call. Good decision.
Good for the UHSAA by standing by the ref's decision....sorry the player,
not LOGAN. Logan will still go out and play this Friday, and has a good shot of
winning a game without its start. Nelson I feel bad for, but at the
same time, this is all about life lessons and he will learn from it, and be a
better adult from it. The rules reply to all, he was flagged earlier in the
game, and should have known better not to react. I know the ref's were
watching him the rest of the night after the first. Favero was also told if he
does it again he will be out by the ref's, so it should not be a
surprise.Logan still wins...its just going to be a closer game than
The coach and doctors don't tell you that he is hurt until he is cleared,
then when the UHSAA clears him to play his MRI miraculously comes back negative
and he is good to go.
Old Ball Coach,I think Nelson and his team will learn a lesson from
this. Far from the one you wish. Spin it how you want, but both calls were
doubtful, and the second has been impeached by solid evidence of an alternative
cause.No appeal of an ejection is a nonsensical rule. I think every
ejection should be reviewed by USHAA for mitigating or aggravating circumstances
which should diminish or extend the penalty. It is not the case here, but
sometimes refs might be human.Unfortunately, Olympus gets to prove
nothing by playing Logan without 80% of Logan's offensive production on the
field. Nelson is that good-check the record books, survey the number of
haters/critics. It is a trap game for Olympus. If they win, well, it really just
means they beat a hobbled horse in a race; if they lose they will be
embarrassed.I give Olympus more credit that some of these others.
They should beat a quarterback-less Logan.
I'm dismayed how the public is easily swayed by inaccurate and incomplete
information that is readily available.When I read the article this
morning, I thought I recognized this doctor's name (I have no affiliation
with Cache Valley). Sure enough, a quick internet search and here it is, a DN
article when the Riley Nelson x-fer to BYU debacle occurred. The article is:
"Found: A physician friend of the Nelsons speaks out, By Dick Harmon,
Tuesday, June 3, 2008". In this article Dr. Goble, an Orthopedic Surgeon,
who's a personal family friend of Dr. Nelson (Riley & Chase's
father) adamantly defending the family. This relationship alone puts his recent
letter to the UHSAA, and it's motives into deep question.I've seen the YouTube Video and in no way does Nelson show any signs of
pain or a reflexive kick. In fact, he walks off without a limp.With
more searching I found better footage from FOX 13, where a cameraman is directly
behind the EZ & players, clearly showing Nelson stand straight up, stare
directly at the tackler, and confirms kicking his foot at his face. Clear
intent, a Flagrant Personal Foul worthy of ejection.Check the facts.
Dear UHSAA, does this mean you're now the judge, jury, AND doctor? The
way you have completely dismissed medical advice and opinion sets a very
dangerous precedent for your future and the future of what you have set as the
example for the coaches in the state of Utah.
I believe that the natural response to pain is to "pull" away from the
source, not "push" your limb toward it. The body's natural reflex
is to pull back toward the core as a defense mechanism. Even an injured animal
will recoil first and then lash out in fear, anger, aggression, etc.
UHSAA won't overturn it because it wasn't the East High QB that did it
or the Bingham QB...typical UHSAA.
Believe me when I say I don't want to defend officials or the UHSAA. That
being said, I see plenty of flaws with the Logan side. First, Nelson was taken
to a doctor for an MRI by monday morning. The only way you can get in that soon
is if it is a "favorable" doctor. My son had a broken arm and the
hospital did not even put on a cast until the radiology could look at the xrays.
Which was two days later. And that was not on a weekend. Second, if this kid is
hurt, why is he even thinking about playing? In spite of what CV1 says, this kid
is in high school. He should not be out risking more injury. If he was making
millions, I would say play maybe. Third, Logan comes off as a bit whiney. They
have had a fabulous season. Losing a player or a game does not change that.
Logan thinks they're above the rules! Let him play. They are not winning
it anyways so it will be mute once they lose at RES. It will come down to
Timpview and WX winner which I'm riding with my CATS!!
An Injury? Whatever! Look at it this way, you have a team, it is not one guy.
So go win the game, which I think Logan will anyway. And look at it this way.
Your QB gets a week off to let that injury heal up going into the Semi's.
What a break for Logan to have this happen.
Sounds like Nelson is a hot head if this was his SECOND flag in the game. Most
kids don't get one 15 yarder in a game but he went all out for a second
one. Football is a team sport. When one person thinks its all about him, u got
since I am not a doctor, I'll defer to one. But let's assume the
injury is real as described. Are you arguing the injured player tried to kick
another player (after scoring a touchdown) with his injured knee?Seriously?
After further video review. I have seen the video. Take a seat young man, we
will see you next week. He kicks the kid or towards him, the flags get thrown,
then he puts his hand on the kid to suggest he is sorry and to maybe get out of
the flag that was already thrown.And an injury...that is just
laughable. He sure seems to be moving alright before and after the play. The
hot head got caught and deserves the punishment. Take a seat.I hope
Olympus somehow wins, and this kid is the reason. This Nelson kids has been
looked at as a leader for a couple of years now, so act like one. Don't be
like your brother kid. Keep it together, it will only help you and your team in
the long run.
So much for the other 10 guys on the field. I guess Nielson blocks for himself,
catches his passes from himself and takes the handoffs from himself. The fact of
the matter is, there are 10 other guys on the field, that's why it's a
TEAM sport. If Olympus loses then they lose to a quality TEAM that is 11-0, if
they win then they beat a quality opponent, period. Logan still beat a very good
Bountiful team without Nielson, the score was as close without him as it was
with him. These two teams have played very similar opponents with similar
outcomes. Olympus lost to a good Corner Canyon team by a point and hasn't
looked back since. With or without Nielson Logan has it's hands full, as
does Olympus. This will be a great test for both teams. I pick Olympus to win it
It's too bad Logan can't be at their best during all playoff games. I
hope they make it past Olympus, so we can see the only undefeated teams in 4A
He reached down to grab his knee in pain right after he kicked it forward. I
thought his Dad is an orthopedic surgeon? He is probably shaking his head in
embarrassment at the doctor saying ACL contusion..... There is no such a thing.
Contusion to a bone yes tendon no. Either poor reporting on Phibbs and
Donaldson or the Dr. Needs to go back to school.
I find it ironic that the very same coach (Favero) was so very outspoken about
the UHSAA and how they were gutless and wouldn't stand by the letter of the
law and their own rules last year, but yet is now asking for appeals and
exceptions. I don't know whether Nelson's injury is truly the reason
for the kicking motion because it can't be proven. I do wonder though if
it's better for the kid's health for him to sit. If he's injured
and because of the injury and pain associated with it, can't control things
like what just happened, isn't he a hazard for himself and other players? I
would be concerned about his health if I was his coach. I hope to see Logan win
and play East at full strength because it would be exciting. But I do understand
why the UHSAA stood their ground.
Something does not feel right about what is happening here. I have a hunch there
is more to the story than we are being told. East High is cheering hard for
Olympus this week.
After a bit more research. Nelson is an orthopedic surgeon. He practiced
under Goble who is quoted in this article. I'm guessing poor reporting by
Phibbs and Donaldson. I do question if he has a possible tear why his Dad and
Goble would clear him to play. SMH. Not sure i want them touching my knee.
even if Logan manages a win against Olympus, East will pulverize them the
@IRS Agent"Based on the severity of the injury described by the
medical professional, it sounds like he should probably sit out a game so as not
to risk further injury. I can't imagine a coach with so much concern over
his player being hurt would jeopardize his well being by subjecting him to
further injury. Sounds like the decision made by the officials is immaterial.
The coach would obviously put the kid's safety first anyway."Sounds like you would agree, then, that the final decision to allow the
athlete to play should be with the coach and the medical professional - and NOT
the UHSAA. I would agree with that viewpoint.
@KimmyP"The coach and doctor's motives need to be reviewed,
what they seem to be saying is: "the knee is injured, so let him
play"."No, actually what they are saying is that the
"kick" was a reaction to pain and that the suspension should be
overturned. After, you can draw your own conclusions or pass whatever judgment
on the coach/doctor if they were to give the green light to allow Nelson to
play.Interpret how you will, but don't put words in their
Go Olympus! No one is given you much credit, and if you win it is because there
qb is out? What happened to next man up? Maybe the Logan back up will suprise
some people? A win is a win, No excuses.
@NT:Take the play-offs out of the equation... do you honestly
believe the words you are writing..., that this calculated move was a reaction
to pain? If that was a true statement then modify the rules of the game at all
levels and allow kicking, punching, shoving, head-butting, etc. since pain is
part of the game (as evidenced by Athletic Trainers, Ice Baths, etc.)...,
NOT!The "Medical professional" you speak of is a family
friend who has a direct relationship to Dr. Nelson--both of which are in the
Orthopedic field--has suspect motives to defend this family at all cost, and
knows better than to let a player with even a (suspected) slight tear play a
game that could complete the tear. So, you tell us, is the QB really
injured and shouldn't be playing, or as the FOX 13 film clearly shows, had
a momentary lapse of judgement and is now facing the truth and the consequences
of his actions.If anything it appears the UHSAA is saving this kid
from himself, his coaches (incl. Asst. Coach brother Riley who's been
non-stop tweeting all day), his father and a renowned doctor. Good on them.
My question that I cannot see where it has been stated is what did Nelson do to
receive his first penalty, as it takes two to get ejected?
So to get this straight...the doctor and coach (family friend) say that he
grabbed his knee as a natural reaction to pain and then his leg flinched as a
natural reaction when he went to step forward. Look at the film - he is facing
the player on the ground and kicks as he is standing up and stepping back on his
right leg. So why does he only grab his knee after he is walking away. It looks
like the only thing he does by touching his knee is straighten out his knee pad.
His body language sure doesn't look like he is in any pain and all the film
of the game after doesn't show him in any pain. He should be given the
flags thrown as souvenirs and use them to wipe his tears.
So, if his injured knee caused the pain which caused the involuntary kick, then
he should be held out as he is a kicking risk. Olympus player " Gee Coach, I
would have tackled him, but you know what they said about his involuntary
kicking problem, so I just moved out of the way so I wouldn't get a toe to
the jaw". Really?
After seeing the footage that highlights the kick I think that it would be
reasonable to consider that an offense where officials can eject someone,
especially after warning them about a similar infraction. Even if it was
unintentional, dismissing it would open a huge loophole in the rules. The main
problem I see is that the rules aren't applied the same to all teams in all
games. What was overlooked in one game causes ejection in another. In the Timp
game the same day Timpanogos would have had at least one player that would have
been ejected in the first quarter if the same standards were followed. The refs
are human, and don't see everything. Though I would be against it for other
calls, I wish there was a way for a team to have refs review film for
unsportsmanlike conduct and personal fouls in situations where it may lead to
player injury or fighting. Two years of tough luck for Logan, though I
don't think it will change the outcome of the playoffs since he will be in
for the East game, they were able to hold off Bountiful, and they have the week
I was at the game and although I did not have a good vantage point of the foul.
I have seen a number of angles showing "the kick". It is impossible to
have an undisputed interpretation, from the replays, of the player's intent
or the maliciousness of the infraction; however, the player had already
established himself as player to watch on a previous play. This
wasn't the young man's first infraction. If you look at the first
Logan touchdown, you will see Riley clearly pushes number 87's head into
the ground as he stands after the touchdown run. I believe this along with the
trash talking that accompanied the incidents drew enough attention to the player
that the officials felt compelled to throw their flags. Perhaps there is a
teaching opportunity here for all the players on both sides as well as the other
athletes in the tournament. Bias will not dwindle in the debate and
the call and sanctions will remain unchanged. Good-luck to all the
teams remaining in the tournament! It has been an enjoyable season!
Been trying to find the video from the endzone view that was taken by FOX13.
Anyone know where to find the video?