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High school football: Logan quarterback Chase Nelson facing possible suspension following ejection

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  • seen enough Logan, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 11:12 p.m.

    This needs to be looked at to get it right. Chase Nelson is a high character kid and Logan High has not had a ejection in the 15 years Mike Faverro has coached there. The two calls were VERY questionable especially for a kid who has no track record of acting out. Hope they can take a look at it and make the right call. Hope to see Chase Nelson competing on the field again next week. GO GRIZZ!!!

  • wiseacre Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 12:18 a.m.

    UHSAA must uphold the decision of THEIR officials. Anything contrary to this would demonstrate that the UHSAA does not support THEIR officials. Regardless of intent or degree of intent by player, the official made the call...enough said. Rule is: an ejection results in a one game suspension. We can't review every missed call, every bad call by the officials and go back and change them. It's unfortunate it happened to a great player that everyone whoops and hollers about, but rules are rules and they apply to all players.

  • bslack Draper, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 8:47 a.m.

    The appeal process is part of the rule so that a review can be made by UHSAA. If the two penalties are upheld as accurate, then Chase should sit out one game for his actions. Sometimes officials get it wrong in the heat of the moment and so a review is necessary. The same goes for an athlete where sometimes good people do dumb things in the heat of the moment.

    The decision must be based on the facts and accuracy of the calls not on who the penalty was made against. I hope UHSAA has access to video to perhaps help with the decision rather than just going off of opinions.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 8:54 a.m.

    There is an appeal and review process. Generally, the UHSAA will uphold the suspension unless there are extenuating circumstances. But there is a due process and at times calls or decisions get reversed. Looking at game film will be part of that process...

  • TheOfficalCall Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 9:03 a.m.

    @Seen Enough, Yes it will be reviewed.

    @Wiseacre, couldn't agree more

    It was not two penalties that got him ejected it was the one sole act of kicking. Here be the two rules in question.

    Rule2-1
    Fighting is any attempt by a player or nonplayer to strike or engage a player or nonplayer in a combative manner unrelated to football. Such acts include, but are not limited to, attempts to strike an opponent(s) with the arm(s), hand(s), leg(s) or foot (feet), whether or not there is contact.

    Rule 9-4-1
    ART. 1 . . . No player or nonplayer shall fight.

    PENALTY: Fighting, intentionally contacting a game official, striking, kicking or kneeing. (Arts. 1, 2, 3j) – (S38- 47) – 15 yards and disqualification.

    Rule 2. Defines what fighting is and an attempted kick is regarded as fighting.
    Rule 9-4-1, says you can't fight and the penalty for such is 15 yards and ejection.

    The UHSAA has the about the one game suspension.

    Back to Wiseacre's comment's, The UHSAA very often over-rules the ruling on the game officials. Wouldn't be surprised to see him on the field next week.

  • wiseacre Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 9:42 a.m.

    @The Official Call - -you are right, the UHSAA has overruled before, but that's the problem, they do not hold a hardline to their own bylaws and that is why everyone has no trust in the UHSAA. And because they do not hold strong to their bylaws, teams walk all over them and circumvent the rules. This will be interesting and potentially give UHSAA credibility if they make the right call, which is upholding the bylaws and supporting their officials. Another point on the call at this game - - an ejection is severe and if that was the case, wouldn't all officials on the field have to concur that an ejection would be warranted or the unsportsmanlike call was worthy of an ejection? My thought is if the act in question that resulted in the ejection was discussed amongst officials(of which it was) it could've been overturned at the game.

  • slcftball Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    Not true. If you read the handbook, it says any player ejections cannot be appealed.
    A coaches ejection may be appealed, but a players not. I think he is done. But if he gets two penalties in the first half for kicking kids on the ground and stomping on their facemasks then he should sit-just sayin. My cousin is a Logan supporter and he said that's what he did and is worried. Olympus is getting lucky. First a win against a bad Sville team now this. But I guess the UHSAA caved on that debacle with East last year so in realty, who really knows with the weak UHSAA. When do they decide?

  • Temp WEST JORDAN, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 10:26 a.m.

    I did not see the game, but if the kick was really "not malicious" as the article states, then refs need to swallow their whistles! I hate refs that feel a need to be a bigger part of a football game than they should be. It happens far too often.

  • TheOfficalCall Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 10:50 a.m.

    Given my screen name I officiate a UHSAA sport. These officials will get a call from the Supervisor of Officials who will ask them if there was anything they could have done "differently", Is there a way you could have kept him/her in the game. It has happen to me and many an official I know personally.

    The rule as stated doesn't not mention "malicious". In my opinion and this happens in games that a tackler hangs on a little to long to the legs of the ball carrier and the ball carrier gets a little "testie" and try to kick his was free. This sounds like what happen. I have a hard time understanding what really happen because the reporter doesn't sound like he knows the difference between a personal foul and an Unsportsmanlike foul. A player can have many, 5+ plus personal fouls in a game and that would not be a cause for ejection, where as ONE "Unsportsmanlike foul" results in an EJECTION. So when the reports says nothing malicious happen that is hard for me to have much faith in the statement.

  • TheOfficalCall Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 11:01 a.m.

    We as officials could really careless about the UHSAA rule, the fact a player gets a couple of PF's we start watching him/her more closely, because once or twice dirty, usually means it is happening more frequently. Give a player 2 or 3 big 15-yd and let the coach know our eyes are on him, the coach will remove him/her because they are too risky to remain in the game and rightfully so, they could eventually hurt someone. We get tired of focusing our attention on one player.

    @ Wiseacre, getting together on a 5 man crew I am sure is what happened, but I would say only 2 maybe 3 may have saw it, Officials have areas of coverage and you are not aways looking at the ball carrier.

    @Temp I am sure you would be they next to say the ref's need to control the game more closely or someone is going to get hurt.

    @slcftball, Interesting about your knowledge from the logan person. If a fan thinks it was bad, then it must have been. In the first half none-the-less.

    If he is playing Friday I wouldn't be surprised.

  • Old ball coach Sandy, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 11:29 a.m.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Nelson plays next week, the UHSAA has no bite, and will cave into the pressure. Ex...East 2012!

    What I don't understand is the blame on the ref's....like they had control over Nelson from kicking a player, or receiving "two" personal foul calls. Kicking should be the same penalty as throwing a punch, and not accepted by the coaching staff, the refs, or UHSAA.

    Nelson is the leader of the team, and I understand competitive issues. But you have to be able to control those emotions, even if Bountiful held, pinched, or twisted his legs. I would be shocked if he is not on the field next week....and applaud the UHSAA for standing by its rules if he doesn't.

    An old coach told me...."only we can mess this run up!"....Logan might find this out next week!

  • loganfan Logan, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    I don't want to argue with anyone on this issue but I would ask that before you make comments on this that you would watch the footage of the incident. It's on you tube, Logan Bountiful game filmed by the Valley Channel. It happens at about minute 55. Watch and then judge. There is no stomping. I can't even see a kick. Just Chase hopping up after a tackle. The first penalty was personal foul (this was on an earlier touchdown). The second one which resulted in the ejection was called unsportsmanlike. Several officials throw flags so maybe there is more than we can see, it just seems that it was a harsh punishment for the actions that we can see on the tape. I don't know all the rules and I wasn't on the field when it happened so what do I know? Maybe those with more football knowledge can weigh in after watching it.

  • dvk75 CLEARFIELD, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 12:04 p.m.

    There is video of the altercation as the coaches reviewed it at half time. The play was described by people who saw that tape as @THEOFFICIALCALL speculated the person doing the tackling held on long after the play was over and Chase Nelson was trying to kick his leg free it was more of an appearance of him kicking the player than actually trying to kick the player. I don't fault the officials for the call if it looked like he was kicking him but I am glad there is a review process if there is video proof it wasn't what it appeared to be.
    @slcftball The first unsportsmanlike penalty was for taunting (pointing the football at the player who missed the tackle after the play) not kicking and stomping on a players face mask. And unless you know what your talking about your speculation is way out of line.
    I hope the review process talks to the coach of Bountiful and the kid that supposedly got kicked and they review the film.

  • CVMD North Logan, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 12:11 p.m.

    The 'kick' happened getting off a late end zone tackler who refused to let go. Chase fell backwards a little getting up and his foot came forward when his own player pulled him up further. Very meager, inadvertent contact did happen. But this is football not debate. There was no kick by any definition that I am aware of. Hopefully the HUDL film will be available. Most watching thought the flag was on the Bountiful kid for not letting him up. It should have been a no call because no foul appears to have taken place. The first flag was for an end zone celebration that can't be seen despite being filmed. Funny sort of celebrating. If ever a suspension should be overturned, this one is it.The process is in place to review the official's call and it should be used. Review programs in the NFL and NCAA do not undermine officiating, but promote fairness and integrity to the rules of the game. Officials, even good ones, make bad calls. It is part of the game. Logan overcame the bad call. But it is wrong to extend the penalty for a bad call over 2 games.

  • Prep Fan 89 Draper, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 12:51 p.m.

    I just watched it, thank you for sharing loganfan.

    That penalty is ridiculous. If Nelson is held out next week by the UHSAA or their officiating guru, this will be a grave injustice!

  • papi_chulo Ogden, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 12:52 p.m.

    They better let him play next week like they did last year for EAST and TIMPVIEW when they had blatantly cheated and got caught doing it. If they don't let him play, I am staging a protest at the UHSAA offices just like all those EAST boys did last year when they rolled out the fake tears and said, PLEASE let us play, we know we cheated, but we are such a good team cause we cheated. They got their way and Nelson better get to play next week or the UHSAA better watch their back!

  • Prep Fan 89 Draper, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 1:07 p.m.

    @TheOfficialCall - If you as officials know that a kid can be ejected for an unsportsmanlike call, then you call it a personal foul in that situation. Understand the game and what is going on. That is where my beef lies, they had a chance to huddle up and discuss it. Throw another personal foul, and let Coach Favero know "if it happens again we will have no choice but to eject your QB which means he would be out next week too."

    If your posting on the rule is indeed accurate (personal foul vs. unsportsmanlike) then this is way more ridiculous than I originally thought! Nelson should be on the field next week!

  • wiseacre Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 1:42 p.m.

    Two officials threw their flags simultaneously, so that tells me that something obvious was recognized by the officials. I looked at the film, and it does not look like the Bntfl player was holding on to Nelson's leg. It also does not look like a kick, but a knee to shoulder - plus presumably verbal from Nelson which also warrants an unsportsmanlike flag. So with that said, even if it was not something physical it could be something verbal that Nelson said. Interestingly enough, the Bntfl player raised his hand like "that should be a flag". Point is, something unsportsmanlike occurred and was flagged. From what @the official call is saying, the onus could be on the officials if UHSAA talks to them. Do these officials then have the guts to stand by their call? The only reason this is a big deal, is 1) it's Logan who is a powerhouse and 2)it's a Nelson

  • wiseacre Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 2:12 p.m.

    @papi chollo - Two contrasting issues at play between what happened with East and what is happening at Logan. East's was a result of administration messing up paperwork and affecting the players, not the players wrongdoing. Logan's issue is a direct result of the actions of a player. UHSAA will look at Logan's differently. But by all means go and raise a hissy fit at UHSAA and continue to follow the footsteps of many other parent's in Utah... "my kid has been wronged", "my kid is special", "my kid would never do anything like that". Sheesh, so tired of whining parents/people.

  • red rocks Saint George, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    Something similar happened a few years ago at Dixie vs Bonneville in state playoffs. Dixie's QB was ejected for supposed punch. One of the official simply made a bad judgement call. The other 4 officials asked for a review by UHSAA. The UHSAA reviewed several tapes submitted and over ruled the ejection.

    The officiating crew has the power to ask for a review of the ejection, not the player, coach or school. If the officiating crew asks for a review I am sure that they will review it.

  • TheOfficalCall Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 2:24 p.m.

    @Prep Fan 89 the rule I pulled directly from the NFHS website publications.

    Like I said 2 personal fouls DO NOT eject a player not do 10, just poor reporting by the reporter in this case. He should have reports it as ONE USL as opposed to TWO PF's. ONE UnSportsmanLike will eject a player. Officials VERY often call a TRUE unsportsmanlike as a personal foul thus going against the rules as written. A kick or punch rather it is landed or not have the same intent in the rule... Fighting.

  • TheOfficalCall Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 2:33 p.m.

    Personally I can't see anything on the film from this angle. I suspect both fouls spoken of by the youtube guys that both fouls were UNSPORTSMANLIKE, not a mixture of PF's and USL.

  • dvk75 CLEARFIELD, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    Wow if you think both should be UNSPORTSMANLIKE under the rules every time they get a little pushy after a play half the kids would be ejected from the game.

  • wiseacre Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 3:48 p.m.

    @slcftball - -if your understanding of the handbook states(I have not read the handbook)no appeal of player ejections, than I would think it's a done deal. If UHSAA does overrule the handbook, they AGAIN open up a pandora's box and I would think an independent group should do a complete review of the UHSAA. Their inability to stand strong is causing their own demise. And I wouldn't overlook Olympus, Logan's 10-0 schedule wasn't that daunting either.

  • Swishfrom3 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 4:07 p.m.

    kid needs to keep his cool. he brought it on himself. most smart players after getting one penalty, would be careful. he should know better, especially with Riley running up and down the sidelines like a Wildman.

  • Stephen Van Orden Mapleton, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 8:37 p.m.

    @papi_chulo

    Timpview forfeited all games that the ineligible players played in. They still made the playoffs legitimately without special treatment. They then had to play Logan and East as a lower seed and beat them both on the way to the state championship.

    I hope the Logan quarterback gets to play. If I were the opponent next week, I would want to play Logan at full strength.

  • WestFBking Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 11:18 p.m.

    @slcftball

    Your Leopards stand to gain the most if the kid sits out. Great season, btw

  • PBR Providence, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 1:20 a.m.

    Just watched the video... Are you kidding me! If players have to be accountable for their actions, then these referee's should have to be for theirs. Make these refs sit down, watch the video with this kid, his parents and coaches. Then explain to him why he was kicked out, and why they decided to possibly end his high school career this way. Any reasonable person that watches this video will wonder what in the world these ref's had up their sleeve's. BTW, not a Logan parent, former student or former player. Just a fan of high school sports. Wow!! Hopefully clearer heads will prevail.

  • CVMD North Logan, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 7:13 a.m.

    This is like throwing a kid out who loses his balance, puts his hand out to steady himself then calling it a punch. I have looked at this many times on HUDL frame by frame. Go look yourself. Chase is getting helped up by his own players, loses his balance falling backward and the left foot comes up, maybe brushing 84 maybe not even making contact.

    Try an experiment: get pushed hard backwards with one leg down and see if you can keep the other from coming forward a little. I can't. It is reflexive, like putting out a hand when you stumble.

    Chase is looking to his right, not even down at the player at his feet. The officials making the call are behind and to the side, completely screened by surrounding Logan players, out of position to see what is going on. They see a foot come up though. The officials in front don't see anything other than a player getting helped up and do not throw a flag. They all did their best.

    A bad call, part of the game, frustrating, and more. A kick? Nope. UHSAA is now suspending for losing balance and having reflexes.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 4:20 p.m.

    @CVMD - good analysis. It's crazy some people really believe there should be a zero tolerance, no review approach that automatically upholds the suspension because of the rules. Just like zero tolerance policies that lead to the suspension of a stellar high school student because he had a fillet knife in his tackle box, in his vehicle on school grounds. Zero tolerance and no reconsideration is a zero common sense approach. Hopefully the UHSAA consists of more reasonable minds.

  • slcftball Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 5:44 p.m.

    Re wstfbking

    Not an East supporter. I have some integrity c'mon.

  • WestFBking Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 8:59 p.m.

    The author of this article wrote:

    "The ejection came on Nelson’s second whistled personal foul. On the play he made a non-malicious kicking motion in the direction of a defender clinging to his lower body after he had reached the end zone. There was no resultant physical contact on the play."

    Fox 13 just showed footage of the incident - from a condemning angle. The Bountiful defender was on his hands and knees getting up. He did not have a hold of the QB's leg. The QB kicked him in the face mask, which was facing the ground. Despite Mr. Phibb's attempt to gain sympathy for the QB, the angle showed that it was a malicious kick.

    If the state has this footage, the young man will sit out against Olympus. This is a great lesson on the importance of poise.

    @slcftball - my bad. However, being an East supporter isn't a bad thing. They are flat out the best team in the state.

  • dvk75 CLEARFIELD, UT
    Nov. 4, 2013 9:40 a.m.

    @wiseacre You are correct that the players can't appeal the ejection but you will also note that the officials must call and fax in a report within 24 hours of the end of the game. I believe that the player can't appeal the suspension but that doesn't mean it isn't reviewed by the committee. And that is both to be fair to the officials and the players. I don't believe it is lack of support for the officials if it is overridden anymore than a booth review of a play in College or Professional Football is.

  • wiseacre Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 4, 2013 10:44 a.m.

    Report coming out of KVNU - a Cache Valley news stateion has stated that UHSAA does not expect to re-instate Nelson for the upcoming game against Logan.

  • Joe Dirt Richfield, Utah
    Nov. 4, 2013 1:09 p.m.

    If the UHSAA goes through with this appeal they have lost all credibility with me! My son just went through this whole process and the UHSAA said, "We go with the word of our official and his report, very rarely do we even review an appeal, let alone overturn a ruling." Yet, my son paid his dues, took his punishment, and sat out. But it will be interesting to see what will happen to an undefeated program with an impact player. My kid is just as important to his team! And sorry folks, but a rule is a rule.... STICK BY IT UHSAA (Oh and be sure he sits through the online Sportsmanship/Anger class and receives his certificate as well.... :)

  • pleblian salt lake city, utah
    Nov. 4, 2013 3:02 p.m.

    When all of the details about what really went on come out, a lot of people eager to end a high school kid's football season on speculation are going to look very petty.

    To those with an open mind, if the circumstances seem strange, well, there may just be a strange reason...

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 4, 2013 3:57 p.m.

    If the UHSAA reverses the officials ruling it will be another "kick in the teeth" for Olympus. They had to abide by the UHSAA policy in the selection of a no. 1 seed in their region when there is a three-way tie (the out-dated coin flip). Olympus was 9-1 the other two teams were 5-5, no-never mind the overall records or or point totals in head-to-head games, where Olympus would have clearly been the no.1 seed. Instead they are no. 3 seed and get to play two road games.

  • wiseacre Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 4, 2013 4:20 p.m.

    @joedirt - UHSAA stuck to their bylaws. Congratulations UHSAA, you have gained a previously wavering supporter from this action. Although you hate to set precedent on a key player, you stuck to the rules. In addition. Those of you who have seen the youtube/hudl submission, it does not show the sequence very well. Fox 13 News had a cameraman at the back of the endzone, right behind Nelson and showed the clip on the news. It shows in clarity a deliberate kick, not a stumbling catch your balance kick, but an intentional kick. There are no debating that video. I wish I could find the link to it.

  • wiseacre Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 4, 2013 6:06 p.m.

    Has anyone seen the remarks from Favero in the SL Trib article, the excuse for the kick? An MCL tear. Coach, an MCL tear most likely would've happened on the tackle or in the motion of the tackle in this instance, and wouldn't that be immediate pain and cause the kick then, rather than a kick from Nelson occurring while he stands up? You can tell that the coach was looking for any excuse (he knew Nelson deliberately kicked the kid) to try and get the suspension overturned by having a specialist throw in "neurological reaction" for the kick. Never ending story of coaches on top tier teams.

  • jstsayin Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 5, 2013 12:42 p.m.

    I understand everyone from Logan saying Nelson is not a dirty player - but isn't it interesting that both fouls committed were AFTER he scored a touchdown. His first TD he kicked a player in the helmet and the second TD he kicked a player in the throat. NOT DIRTY? When these two teams met earlier in the year he received a personal foul for throwing the football at the helmet of a bountiful player AFTER he scored a TD also. Am I the only one seeing a pattern here?

    Shame on him and his coaches for not being able to control this arrogance. He is a great player, but part of the game is being a good sport. He needs to take a look at himself and recognize this. I only hope he realizes this while he sits the sideline for the next game.

    All of you who are trying to justify his action by saying he lost his balance and it didn't warrant a penalty? You are all enabling his behavior. I understand you want your local team to continue on but let it be on the boys merits not thru others justifying and twisting the truth.

  • mab93 Provo, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 5:55 p.m.

    @louie Though I agree that UHSAA did the right thing by sticking to the ref's decision and I agree that Olympus is most likely the best team in region 7, I disagree that the coin toss rule is a "kick in the teeth" for Olympus. The coin flip rule leaves no room for interpretation. If there was a clearly better option then they would have changed it. Though other states do this, I would be against going off of the overall record or points scored or something similar because it would encourage times to do things like play easier non-region teams or give non-starters less play time. Playing for seeding like when someone wouldn't make the playoffs would be a reasonable option in my opinion.

    You earn the number one seed by having the best record in the region. Olympus didn't earn the number one seed because they didn't beat Corner Canyon. Olympus, Orem, and Corner Canyon all earned the number 3 seed. Because nobody earned the number one or two seeds, they flipped a coin to see who they would give them to and this time chance seems to have got it backwards.