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Jon Huntsman Sr. says book's Romney tax claim is 'supermarket tabloid trash'

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  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 11:39 a.m.

    What a foolish thing for Reid to say, perhaps the most foolish thing he's ever said, and that's saying something.

    He really thought Mitt didn't pay taxes for 10 years? And it wasn't caught by any of the IRS checks, which are more stringent on the wealthy?

    He released his taxes, and they showed he paid millions in taxes, every year.

    Mitt Romney pays more in taxes than just about anyone in America. Frankly I'm embarrassed there are lazy people out there who cry when they pay a few thousand in taxes and Mitt Romney pays for his share and theirs with his millions in taxes.

    And Reid's response when his tax returns were relased, showing the millions he paid?

    Silence.

    Like a dog trying to hide in the corner.

    What a dishonest attempt to impact the polls. Did Reid honestly believe what he was saying? And I thought Mormons were supposed to be honest?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    Thank You
    President Huntsman, for being a man of honesty and integrity - regardless of political party affiliations and any negative public opinion fall out!

  • mcdugall Murray, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    @Chris B - Romney never fully disclosed the entirety of his tax documents, in fact there was a consensus by tax experts, given the disclosed, that Romney did not utilize all of his deductions and left money on the table, which would indicate his marginal tax rate was less than the ~12% he claimed. I don't think he would have done this had he not hand political aspirations. Romney pays more in taxes that a lot of Americans on the total amount paid but as a percentage of income he pays considerably less than the majority of Americans. The disclosure by Reid or whomever, had nearly zero impact on the Romney candidacy.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 12:08 p.m.

    If true it paints Huntsman in a poor light as a Republican who's son was running also.

  • Gone fishin PAC Country, WA
    Nov. 1, 2013 12:31 p.m.

    Reid is a crook and has always been. He's in politics, that's the way things work.

  • mattrick78 Cedar City, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 1:03 p.m.

    As a member of the Church, I was embarrassed by both Reid and Romney during the Presidential election.

  • Ken Sandy, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 1:09 p.m.

    @mcdugal, Wrong on so many levels. Mitt was right that 47% of Americans pay 0 federal income tax. He pays more than 0% of his income. So unless you think that the remaining 53% pay a higher rate than Romney, which isn't true since many pay between 0%-12%, you're claim is false. Were you just making that claim up?

    And besides, how much money he makes doesn't matter. He should pay for the resources he uses. You should pay for the resources you use. And I should pay for the resources I use. The fact that Mitt is rich doesn't make the government suddenly more expensive to run, make national defense more expensive, make other government expenses increase. You and I use the government resources just as much as Mitt Romney. Stop looking to others to pay for what you use.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 1:27 p.m.

    The real culprit is the U.S. tax system, which allows very wealthy people to pay a much lower percentage of their gross income than ordinary middle class Americans who make much less. It's all backwards.

  • grouchyoldman Arden, NC
    Nov. 1, 2013 1:43 p.m.

    Old news. For an independently wealthy man not to take all the tax deductions that are available to him is like some poor smuck like me not taking that home mortgage deduction. I'd like to hear from anyone, including Mr. Reid and Mr. Huntsman, that they didn't take all of the deductions to which they were entitled. If you have a problem with this incident, attack the IRS NOT the individual. Cheez, old news, old argument, same old response and problem. Credibility, once lost is hard to regain, beware of what you speak.

  • Mark from Montana Davis County, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 1:46 p.m.

    I cannot think of a single politician that I like. Having said that, there are some that are worse than others. I put Harry Reid in the top 1% of those that I despise the most. Romney and Huntsman are on the other end of the spectrum. Of course they are still politicians.

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    Nov. 1, 2013 2:09 p.m.

    Ken -

    Technically, you are "wrong on so many levels" because the majority of individuals you identified pay federal income taxes but tax preferences (child credits or EIT) neutralize their taxes. A minority of Americans (elderly/working poor) do not make enough to qualify to pay federal taxes but they are not the bulk of your "47%". The dishonesty on Romney's part is to 1) claim those 47% are liberal, and 2) claim they don't understand a "low tax" policy. Re: 1 - there is ample evidence that conservatives utilize tax breaks like child credits at a greater rate than liberals and they also comprise a majority of low wage, elderly; and re: 2 - these individuals pay little to no federal tax due to conservative low tax policies (ie child credits). The lion's share of "takers" are conservative.

    Further, from 1979-2009, the total average effective federal tax rate has been between 22.7 and 17.4%. On average, the rest of us pay a higher effective rate than Romney.

    Finally, you clearly don't understand the way Bain Capital operates and how Romney used tax payer dollars to fund key aspects of his ventures. Please study up before commenting again.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 2:47 p.m.

    Stewart, You should really take your own advice and study before commenting again. The two lowest income groups as categorized by the New York Times are those making under 30k, and those between 30k-45k. 63% of those under 30k voted for barack. 57% of those in the 30-45k voted for barack. The majority of the takers are those voting for barack.

    Again, time to study for you.

  • Red San Antonia, TX
    Nov. 1, 2013 2:54 p.m.

    Nobody even understand the 180,000 pages in the tax code. The whole thing is a scam.

    The government is getting fleeced by the crooked contractors all day long. Medicare fraud is rampant. Americans are stealing from us all every on almost every contract. The whole system stinks.

    We need term limits to flush out all the underhanded deals and favors that are going on. You can't stay in politics for long without making some stinky deal. Let's limit the crooks with term limits.

  • Blue AZ Cougar Chandler, AZ
    Nov. 1, 2013 3:14 p.m.

    Burden of proof is on Reid, not Romney. Reid made the claim, he better have evidence to back up his claim. Simple as that.

    As the largest accounting firm in the world, I think a letter from PwC is a pretty good source of credibility to refute Reid's claim.

    Now, if you have a problem with the fact that Romney had so many deductions, take your argument to the IRS, not the guy who used the rules to his advantage. During one of the last Republican Primary debates, Gingrich was all proud of the fact that he paid such high taxes. If you can't figure out how to use the law to your advantage, or can't figure out how to lower your tax liability, you don't deserve to be in office because you don't have street smarts. How am I supposed to trust a gov't leader who isn't economically savvy?

  • dnay Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 3:35 p.m.

    It would not surprise me one bit that Reid made all of it up to throw dirt Romney's way. Not one thing the democratic party has done for more than a decade is lie to get what they want. I'm sure he had to come up with something so it would take focus off the fact that Obama wouldn't produce his birth certificate.

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 3:40 p.m.

    This is just another of the DN's bi-monthly articles about Mitt Romney. He still lost.

  • Stalwart Sentinel San Jose, CA
    Nov. 1, 2013 3:57 p.m.

    Chris B - Uhm, I think you ought to read past the first paragraph if you're going to cite a news article, plus you should know your tax brackets before responding. According to your article and the Tax Policy Center, roughly 60% of American families have incomes under $50K. The article goes on to note those groups comprise the middle-class of America and a very quick search online reveals that their federal tax rate is 15% (up to $36K) and then jumps up to 25%.

    If you call them "takers" (which is factually incorrect) then Romney must be an outright crook for paying even less than they do in federal taxes (his intentionally inflated 12%).

    Further, if the middle-class that votes liberal and pays a higher effective percentage of their income in taxes are "takers" in your mind, while tax evaders such as Romney (ie Marriott's Son of Boss $220M fine) have legally been fined for overseeing tax avoidance scandals, is the entire state of Utah not an outright band of crooks given that your state is a net debtor in federal taxes to the tune of over $20 billion dollars? Nearly every living American conservative is a taker.

  • DN Subscriber 2 SLC, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 3:59 p.m.

    So, we have one man who has made millions and given most of it away to philanthropic causes to help others claiming he never said such a thing.

    And, we have another man who has made millions on shady deals and kept it all to help himself, and made a career out or making unproven opportunistic allegations against opposing politicians.

    Who is most likely to be telling the truth?

    Even though the news media relentlessly repeated Reid's wild and anonymous allegations, that does not make them true.

    I choose to believe Jon Huntsman, Sr. And, Mitt Romney, another guy who has been extremely generous sharing his wealth, which he earned the hard way, by honest work, not shady land deals.

  • kattawn ,
    Nov. 1, 2013 4:20 p.m.

    Don't believe it where it comes to Mr. Huntsman Sr. However, Huntsman Jr. is another story. I'd believe he'd do something underhanded and dishonest like that. And Mr. Reid was wrong to say it on tv without proof.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    @grouchyoldman
    "For an independently wealthy man not to take all the tax deductions that are available to him is like some poor smuck like me not taking that home mortgage deduction. I'd like to hear from anyone, including Mr. Reid and Mr. Huntsman, that they didn't take all of the deductions to which they were entitled. "

    There's nothing wrong with someone taking the deductions available to them (and likewise there's nothing wrong with someone who wants tax rates to go up not voluntarily paying more). We're just saying the system is wrong, and the Ryan budget would've only made it worse (and Gingrich's would've dropped Romney's tax burden to near 0% since he wanted to completely eliminate capital gains which is where most of Romney's income comes from as Romney pointedly noted in a primary debate).

  • Gr8Dane Tremonton, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 4:27 p.m.

    Always disappointing when people, particularly elected leaders, are not honest in their dealings with their fellow man. Reid's comments were completely out of line by any standard. He should openly and publicly apologize to the Romneys. It's never too late to do the right thing.

  • oldcougar Orem, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 4:30 p.m.

    I hope we can start a legitimate movement to vote all incumbents out of office and start over with strict term limits...so we can elect politicians who will go to Washington to represent us and abide by the constitution...instead of using all their time to cater to special interests for fundraising purposes. Get rid of all of them!!!

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 4:36 p.m.

    Who cares?

    The majority of Americans voted Obama and against Mitt. Mitt lost. Get over it

  • grandmagreat Lake Havasu City, AZ
    Nov. 1, 2013 4:44 p.m.

    I do not understand where Harry Reid is going with this foolish statement. Mitt Romney is no longer running for president, and politicians like Mr Reid, just want to draw attention away from their own. Brother Reid you should clean your own house first, and as we tell our youth in the church. Remembe who you Are

  • Grandma 20 Allen, TX
    Nov. 1, 2013 4:44 p.m.

    It's too bad that there are those who continue to dig pits for others to fall into. In due time, those who continue along those pathways will fall into those pits themselves.

    Read Proverbs 6:16-19 and see what the Lord has to say.

  • rbowman838 Pueblo, CO
    Nov. 1, 2013 4:59 p.m.

    I don't think anything that Harry Reid has to say is the truth. This man has sold his soul to Obama and the left-wing liberal democrats.
    Mr. Reid's public behavior falls way short of being an example of a good LDS church member. Frankly, I am ashamed of him. He will go down in history as being on the wrong side of the issues of our day. The citizens of Nevada need to step up and vote this guy out of office. Better yet, have him recalled for not representing the views of the citizens of Nevada.

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    Nov. 1, 2013 5:01 p.m.

    "Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost." (2 Nephi 28:31)

    I guess I'd be careful who you call evil. Politics is a dirty business and I'm sure that there are "many who fall down and few who return to the sunlit land" after serving in office. (Chronicles of Narnia, The Silver Chair)

    The point is that most Americans have become self-centered; congratulating themselves over what they have achieved and judging those worse off, for their poverty. The pride cycle is alive and well in America. We would do well to get down on our knees, pray for forgiveness and for all of our leaders and stop looking for answers in corruption.

    Government is the people, so let's get back to the work of working together. Putting our faith in the wealthy is just nonsense and neglects the gift of sacrifice that all of our ancestors made to get away from monarchies. The Earth is the Lord's and the government belongs to the people, not the 1%.

  • Bob K porland, OR
    Nov. 1, 2013 5:03 p.m.

    1-- Note that Reid say he was "told that". It is up to folks to remember that Reid repeated it as hearsay, not fact. Not being a mind reader, I can't tell more for sure.

    2- Will someone PLEASE recognize it comes across to other Americans as disingenuous, at best, to keep stating, as this does, and Mitt and Ann Romney repeatedly did, that donations to one's church, particularly tithing required to maintain status, are "charitable donations"?

    "Over that 20-year period, federal and state taxes combined with charitable donations deducted represented 38.49 percent of the Romney family's adjusted gross income"

    I think any member of a church who is in politics ought to list donations to non-church charities separately, so the rest of us can get an idea if you help out the rest of the world, not just where you look good to your fellows.

  • Obama10 SYRACUSE, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 5:14 p.m.

    Reid is a politician. Do anything for party and get elected. Enough said!!

  • haunyocker Springville, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 5:48 p.m.

    I don't believe anything that Harry Reid says. He hasn't told the truth in 37 years. I am confident that Jon Huntsman ever said anything about Romney's taxes.....that being said, I fully believe that his son, Huntsman Jr. doesn't have the integrity of his father and would have certainly revealed anything that could have helped him become a credible presidential candidate. It's sad that the M.I.N.O. Reid never is confronted on the bizarre things he claims. He's sick.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 6:30 p.m.

    I've stopped defending Harry Reid. I used to say "Hi" to him every day in the Halls of Congress. I didn't like his politics, but I thought he was a decent man. The way he behaved during the 2012 campaign was so despicable, that I can no longer have any respect for him. He lost his way a long time ago. What else is there to say.

  • The Taxman Los Angeles, CA
    Nov. 1, 2013 8:38 p.m.

    Romney only released 2 yrs of tax returns.

    The Romney campaign released what it says are the effective tax rates Romney paid for the past two decades. His effective tax rate was calculated based on his Adjusted Gross Income. The Romney campaign is reporting the percentage of Romney's AGI that he paid to the government, explains Brian Galle, an associate professor at Boston College Law School who is an expert on individual and corporate income tax. AGI is the number you get after you take certain, limited deductions. The most relevant of these deductions for Romney are losses from the sale or exchange of property. That could include stock or partnership interests in Bain Capital and associated companies that were sold at a loss. The Romney campaign is disclosing the percentage of tax he paid "on the amount he got after he subtracted out all those losses," which could have been very substantial, Galle says perhaps even enough to almost eliminate Romney's tax liability. That means that although Romney paid at least something in previous years, it could have been a very small amount. "He could have been paying 13.66% of $100 in 2009. He might have paid $13.66,"

  • BYR West Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 9:28 p.m.

    The headlines is confusing, after reading the article

  • hanfrina Buffalo, NY
    Nov. 1, 2013 10:22 p.m.

    ... Totally agree!!!

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 10:34 p.m.

    Well, we KNOW the Obama IRS was/is targeting anyone who is against the Price of Pennsylvania Avenue. So does anyone believe they weren't targeting Mitt Romney? If Romney hadn't paid his taxes for 10 years, you can be sure it would have been aired for the entire nation to see.

  • ItrustNo1 La Grange, TN
    Nov. 1, 2013 10:56 p.m.

    Harry Reid tutoring Mitt Romney on "True Character" would be like Molly Putts explaining the correct way of shooting a basketball to Michael Jordan. Harry is actively and aggressively showing us all what not to do as The Senate Majority Leader. CHARACTER: Moral Excellence. 1.) MORAL: Virtuous, Noble, Righteous, Ethical, Principled. 2.) EXCELLENCE: Virtue. Harry,....Mitt Romney and family are all about CHARACTER. You ought to try it out for size sometime.

  • Billy Bob Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 11:17 p.m.

    Not to name names, but some of you liberals need to learn how marginal tax rates work, as well as how the federal income tax works in general. I could go in to a long explanation about how it works, but please at least learn the difference between marginal tax rate and effective tax rate.

    If you are smart enough to google and find the marginal tax rate table, you should be smart enough to google how to calculate an effective tax rate and how individual federal income taxes are calculated. Spoiler: comparing a 15% or 25% marginal tax rate to Romney's effective tax rate is ridiculous.

    If you are mad that Mitt and other people who are more successful than you can dream to ever be paid a lower effective tax rate than your marginal tax rate, first of all learn the difference between effective and marginal tax rate. If you are still mad about it, be mad at the US Tax Code, the IRS, and Congress. Don't be mad at the hard working successful people who don't pay more taxes than they are legally liable to pay.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 11:38 p.m.

    Wow, Mormons can be vicious to their own when they aren't the correct political persuasion.

  • U-tar Woodland Hills, UT
    Nov. 1, 2013 11:43 p.m.

    Imagine a world without having to hear about Huntsman's, Reid's, Romney's, and Obama every day. What a wonderful world it would be!

  • Bob K porland, OR
    Nov. 2, 2013 2:47 a.m.

    A1994
    Centerville, UT
    Well, we KNOW the Obama IRS was/is targeting anyone who is against the Price of Pennsylvania Avenue. So does anyone believe they weren't targeting Mitt Romney? If Romney hadn't paid his taxes for 10 years, you can be sure it would have been aired for the entire nation to see.

    And YOU can be sure that if Romney had released tax returns the way his father did (assuming they showed no fishy stuff) and he and Ann had both not acted like royalty who were above the majority of Americans, that he would be President.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 2, 2013 8:38 a.m.

    It is entertaining but sad to follow how citizens defend their favorite politician or berate the opposition without stopping to realize they all are crooked politicians, it is just a matter of degree. Washington belongs to Wall Street. Government needs to be reformed and venal career politicians replaced with limited term public serving patriots .

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    Nov. 2, 2013 9:03 a.m.

    Harry Reid is one of the biggest reasons that people view Washington with the greatest disdain and dislike. And Nevada re-elected him. Charlie Rangel and many other such politicians were also re-elected, on both sides of the aisle. This would be a good time to oust them all. But America doesn't do that. It's tough to figure, but it's also how we got 4 more years of Obama misinformation.

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    Nov. 2, 2013 10:56 a.m.

    People get silly in these discussions.

    If someone really has proof of tax misconduct they should go straight to the IRS with it and collect the bounty money for reporting it. (applies to anyone in the country).

    If the IRS has audited someone, found non-compliance with the code and the individual not made it right, they'd be paying penalties or doing jail time, because they don't let that stuff go for long. They crash down on your life and accounts immediately.

    The effective tax rate bears little resemblance to the tax bracket someone falls in. Even including payroll taxes, hardly anyone in the country pays a combined rate of more than 22%, and that is a FACT straight from the IRS themselves.

    If you think you're paying more than 20% effective tax rate, get a better accountant because you're very, very likely messing up and need to revisit your tax strategies.

    Have a good day, and don't fall for soundbite posts that are so fatally flawed they reek of total ignorance whereof they speak.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 12:45 p.m.

    @skeptic and rlsintx

    Thank you for your comments.

    Sage advice, in a willing wilderness of political partisanship.

  • A Guy With A Brain Enid, OK
    Nov. 2, 2013 3:44 p.m.

    Article quote: "He (Romney) didn't pay taxes for 10 years!" Reid said in the interview. "Now, do I know that that's true? Well, I'm not certain."

    So, at first Reid said, without even the slightest hesitation, that Romney did NOT pay his taxes and then immediately after that essentially says he does not know if that's true.

    By his own words and actions, Reid has proven to be a manipulative liar.

    Reid, more than any other single person, planted the idea in the minds of the American people that Mitt Romney was a tax cheat, which was a bold-faced lie that Romney's tax returns, and the tax firm that prepared them, absolutely proved false.

    Romney displayed the greatest of poise and restraint during the election. I could not have done that. Not even close. Romney is a hundred times the man that Harry Reid is.

    When Reid dies he's going to answer to a higher power for his lies, manipulation and deceit. It will not be pleasant experience for Harry Reid.

  • John Locke Ivins, , UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 4:30 p.m.

    After all the good both Jon Huntsman, Sr.and/or Mitt Romney have done in their lives, I find it incredulous that anyone would believe Harry Reid's politically motivated comments or that of a "tell-all" book that either would risk their reputations for so little to gain in return.

    With Reid and those like him, you only have to consider the source to understand. With the writer(s) of the book, you only have to consider that earning money though its sale, is the primary objective.

  • Lets check the facts Albuquerque, NM
    Nov. 2, 2013 5:07 p.m.

    Per the IRS those in Romney's shoes making less than $100,000 don't have an effective tax rate more than his: (And if they had qualifying dividend income, it would be even less)

    Income$50,000
    IRA($5,000)
    Standard Deduction($11,900)
    Exemptions($7,600)
    Taxable income$25,500
    Tax $2,955
    Effective tax rate5.9%

    Income$100,000
    IRA($5,000)
    Standard Deduction($11,900)
    Exemptions($7,600)
    Taxable income$75,500
    Tax $10,935
    Effective tax rate10.9%

  • Zaruski SLC, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 11:29 p.m.

    Google Bloomberg Romney Taxes.

    Romney has been paying "near zero" taxes for years through charitable loopholes related to making donations to the LDS church. "Renting your favorite charity's tax exempt status" as the article calls it.

    Bloomberg released the story DAYS before the election. And it was buried by the stories about how the media and pollsters were catastrophically wrong about their predictions that Romney would win the election by a landslide.

    Remember when Reid said he had a reliable source with regards to that claim? Well, turns out the source was, in fact, reliable.

    I think it's time we begin taking tax exempt status away from churches, on that note. And then we can also start making the IRS look into the countless charities set up for tax evasion, as well as the bazillion PACs set up as non-profits.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Nov. 4, 2013 9:08 a.m.

    @A Guy With A Brain;

    It was Romney himself who made him look like a "tax cheat" (your words); not Reid. Romney refused to release his taxes when ALL other candidates had released theirs. The inference is clear: "I have something to hide".

  • No Way Santaquin, UT
    Nov. 4, 2013 2:52 p.m.

    Did it ever come to the authors of this book that Reid was lying? It certainly did to mine...

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Nov. 11, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    Reid is a despicable partisan who always sides with his party when push comes to shove. I am sick of him.

  • Pat Young BULLHEAD CITY, AZ
    Nov. 15, 2013 2:06 p.m.

    I am sorry for the behavior of a fellow saints, Harry Reid and Bro. Huntsman. Politics are obviously a high priority with integrity being a low priority for this political behavior. That is the difference of telling the truth and playing the game. It's not what is right or wrong with these individuals, it's what they do to win. They will get their rewards from others who play that game. As for me, they are the loser's.