If this attempt at a "détente" had occurred ~2-4 years ago, then
maybe the throngs of Evangelicals who sat-out the last presidential election,
due to Romney's perceived "cult" Mormonism, would have voted for
him. These same groups backed Rick Santorum's campaign, which forever
damaged Mitt's 2nd presidential bid, simply because they would rather vote
for a Catholic than a heretical Mormon. I heard this said from people in my
area, here in So. Cal. One can only imagine what it was like in the bible belt.
They, at this point, are feeling much more threatened by the Obama appointees
who are eroding away at the religious freedoms we both enjoy.I think
it's a little too late to come begging for our leadership acumen, at this
point. How sad and somewhat pathetic.
People don't need to agree on all points of doctrine in order to recognize
the good, the godliness, and the enlightenment which may be found in other
religious faiths. Those who are honestly seeking after these things should
recognize and appreciate people from other faiths who are striving to seek the
same things. As a long-time LDS church member, I have had the privilege of
studying and learning about various religions including Islam, the Sikh
community, Eastern Orthodoxy, Zoroastrianism, the Baha'i Faith,and others,
and have tried to set this same example for my children.
I once had a very respectful conversation with a Baptist minister where we
agreed not to debate but rather to discuss our faith in Christ. After I bore a
fervent testimony of the Savior, His mission and the Plan of Salvation, the
minister commented that I evidently had a living, vibrant faith in Jesus Christ.
He then said that he didn't understand why we called ourselves Christians
if we held unorthodox views of the Trinity. I replied that this is because we
have a living, vibrant faith in Jesus Christ. He insisted that the word
Christian was reserved for those who fit the orthodox view, but accepted a copy
of The Book of Mormon and promised to read it. We both left the conversation
with a better understanding.
As a family we attended a local evangelical church to give our kids an
experience with another Christian faith. The pastor and his wife were very
welcoming and warm to us even knowing we were LDS. The pastor jokingly said,
"I know you Mormons work hard on Sundays. If you ever want a day of rest
come worship with us and we'll take care of everything." We thought
that was great. We told him it was tempting. Christ did not condemn
those who believed differently as much as he condemned hypocrites. We have the
critical thing in common with evangelicals and that is a firm belief that
without Christ we are nothing. It is so much more Christian to start there and
build on that than argue over differences.
I'll have a greater belief in this "detente" when evangelical
leaders start inviting LDS speakers to their universities and conferences. So
far, it seems most of the initiative is coming from the Mormons, and I
don't see or hear much reciprocal action from the evangelical side. Well,
at least some of them are accepting the LDS invitations--that's a start.
When an LDS apostle is invited to speak at a major evangelical institution, then
I'll be impressed.
Mormons need to remember that Evangelicals will never see Mormons as Christians.
While attempts to smooth the waters may be fine to some extent, I would caution
not to get too cozy. Evangelicals will turn on Mormons when it is in their
interest, and they will use Mormons for political purposes. From the
perspective of ideology, if this is a sign of the Church moving more into the
realm of conservativism, I am not happy. It is not wise nor inspired.
Evangelical conservativism is not true Christianity. I would rather see the
Church reach out to faiths from the other end of the spectrum, or at least from
across the board. Ultimately,tying the Church to the conservative wing of those
who profess to be Christian is doomed and effectively excludes those who have a
more liberal view of the Gospel. In the long run, the Church will have
marginalized itself at a time when it is on the cusp of being a true world wide
@Esquire - so you don't believe in the leaders of the church?
@kaladin: which church?
@Esquire - what about the great friendships we have with the Roman Catholics?
And other faiths? This is just one section of the "Christian Faith", or
"The Church" as they would put it. We have dialogue with many of the
various sects. The Evangelicals would amount to just one of our large group of
friends of other faiths. I think your thoughts are misdirected at best.
The problem I see with these types of scenarios is that it implies that we are
somehow obligated to appease one another and apologize for the beliefs we hold
dear. Sure, the Mormon church professes to be the one and only, which may appear
arrogant, but at the same time every other religion says Mormonism is false, so
how is that any less arrogant? We all have the right to believe as we feel we
should, so why can't we just leave it at that?There are plenty
of religions out there that most of us have never heard of. Do we really need to
go out of our way to point out how wrong we think they are?Live your
life. Be a good person. Let others do the same.
Coming from a non religion background one thing I noticed about the LDS Church
was that they were not spending time trying to run down other peoples faith that
differed from theirs. When I was investigating the LDS Church I began to get a
lot of anti Mormon information. However I never had any Mormon who was teaching
me go negative on any other churches. In Southern California where I was, there
were whole ministries whose primary purpose seemed to be based on running down
all the other churches like LDS, Jehovah's Witnesses, 7th Day Adventist,
ect. To me, that did not feel like what a church should be spending it's
time doing. "By their fruits you shall know them."
There really is no "conservative" or "liberal" Gospel.
Christ's words are clear. It is us as humans who change things by
including our personal opinions and feelings. I don't see that happeneing
with any of the Prophets of the LDS Church. Each had his own focus, but the
direction came from God.This is why the Church always tells us at
election time that the principles of the gospel can be found in the platforms of
all major political parties. Too many of my fellow members want to either
simplify things by combining their religion and their politics, or, worse yet,
stretching their interpretation of the gospel to fit their political opinion.Politics is temporal. The Gospel is eternal. Many democrats and
republicans will end up in the Celestial Kingdom, but it will not be their party
affiliation that got them there....
Agreed Fredex.I think the main reason why many faiths are setting aside
there bias'is that many faith are worried about the freedom of
religion so they are rallying together.I had a friend who worked in the
federal government. A common belief now is that the four-fathers trully
meant" freedom from religion"I don't know what that entails
but it is worrisome.
First of all, get rid of the us verse them mentality. Part of the reasons
evangelicals don't see us as "Christians" is because we've
spen so much time setting ourselves apart. We LDS are raised with a defense
mechanism that we don't really trust people of other faiths, and we get
defensive and easily offended over minor things. Obviously, I'm using big
generalities here, but if you have been in the Church for very long, you know
what I'm talking about.A few years ago, I made a friend at work
who is a true blue, born-again Baptist. When I first met him and he started
asking questions about my beliefs, my red-alert radar subconsciously kicked in.
Over time I found that he was genuinely interested in my faith, and I
didn't need to suspect anything. We've had the most wonderful
conversations, and through that he shared with me his view of what it means to
be called and saved, and it was a beautiful experience. I love that man, and we
are brothers in Christ.
@m g ScottI hear you. I am also from So. Cal and a convert. I had the same
experience.Now, it appears that these same people are begging us to help
them with our church's collective leadership acumen, in the midst of this
perceived impending religious crisis. How ironic indeed. They certainly
didn't want that "cult member" Romney though. Instead. These same
people told me personally that they would rather "sit out" the election,
than vote for a Mormon. It's pathetic.
Perhaps the Saints can make nice with the evangelicals, but why do they seek
association with us? Are we values for integrity and Christian virtues, or are
we simply seen as another voting block to be mined on Election Day?Church members had the same choice a year ago: "peculiar people" OR
just trying to be like everyone else, complete with material greed and disdain
for the poor. The pharisees are gone, but the record shows us how to benefit
from their bad example. Have we?
"I know you Mormons work hard on Sundays. If you ever want a day of rest
come worship with us and we'll take care of everything."LOL! Great story, jeanie.
"Evangelicals will never see Mormons as Christians."Why does
is matter what Evangelicals think of Mormons? It certainly doesn't matter
what Muslims or Catholics think of Mormons.
BeSmart wrote: A common belief now is that the four-fathers trully meant"
freedom from religion"What the forefathers truly meant was that
government should keep its nose out of religion. The First Amendment states that
congress shall make no law respecting religion. In other words, keep your nose
out of it.
FredExI agree with you again.I just hope that our freedoms get
maintained.So I can believe and worship as I want.And not worry
about being interfered with by government or other religions
m.g. Scott wrote:"Coming from a non religion background one
thing I noticed about the LDS Church was that they were not spending time trying
to run down other peoples faith that differed from theirs. When I was
investigating the LDS Church I began to get a lot of anti Mormon information.
However I never had any Mormon who was teaching me go negative on any other
churches.Other than the irony of your comment itself "running
down" other Churches, have you never heard Mormons preach about "The
Great Apostasy?" Have you never read in the official scriptures, the
Doctrine and Covenants:"I was answered that I must join none of
them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all
their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all
corrupt . . ." (See also Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 1, p.
5-6).Or this:"What is it that inspires professors of
Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth,
sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world,"
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, p.
@The Scientist quoted the Lord as saying all their creeds were an abomination.
The Lord also said "For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least
degree of allowance. Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of
the Lord shall be forgiven." (D&C 1:31-32). The Lord views
anything other than the pure truth to be an abomination, for He is a God of
truth and cannot lie. He is the Source of salvation, so He can say it any way
that He wants to. He just wants us to repent and be forgiven.
Let me explain my background and position. I have a college degree in
Comparative Religion and have served three LDS missions, serving twice on
ministerial associations in Colorado and Pennsylvania as representative of the
Church in their various communities. I've also travelled to the US-Mexico
border with a multi-faith group studying immigration issues and how different
religious groups help in various needs of immigrants and their impact on
community resources; and I've worked with Habitat for Humanity and other
groups that have warily allowed a Mormon to join them in activities for the good
of the community. This is all to the good, as I see it.These
associations have brought both satisfaction and heartache, because real
differences persist, and our doctrines are clear, as The Scientist noted in his
comments earlier. If we, and traditional Christian and Orthodox churches, did
not believe our own positions that we are "the true Church," we would
lose our identity in a wild theological jumble and prove our lack of commitment
to our faith. Most of us feel we have made covenants which do not allow for
equivocation, even while we attempt to "play nice" with others.
What all this boils down to is that it's grand to be nice and work with
others for the betterment of our communities at large, but that doctrinal
differences will still be there in the background to strain relationships and
keep us separate. Other churches are losing members to the "Mormons"
and we sometimes lose members as well, though at a much lower percentage, as
studies have shown. Some of our LDS writings clearly point out that "we are
right and they are wrong," and anti-Mormon literature basically is saying
the same in reverse, while nit-picking about LDS doctrines and taking LDS
quotations out of context in ways that seem to us to be wrong-headed while
deliberately attacking things we believe to be true in various hurtful ways.
I particularly wonder, in the present course of dialogues, whether
Ravi Zacharias will now repudiate his earlier published comments against the
"Mormons" made in the book, "Kingdom of the Cults" which he
co-wrote with Walter Martin. Of course not! To do so is as unlikely as for the
LDS Church to edit the Joseph Smith story to make it more
2nd tryI'm not purposely trying to be disruptive here, but I
wonder what Jesus thought of the "evangelicals" of his day; what was his
attitude toward them? I think the New Testament provides ample evidence that
Jesus had no time for the evangelicals of his day and did not care to associate
or align with them. For most of my life it seems like we have followed
Jesus' example. So I'm interested in why we now seem to be taking a
I have been angered many times by members of Lutheran, Evangelical, and Baptist
faith's who proclaim Mormons are not Christian. I think it's huge that
a leader of another faith would address the LDS church and proclaim his faith
"sinned" against the LDS church. There will never be complete acceptance
of each other's tenets, but there ought to be mutual respect and
appreciation for the broader things we all believe in common: faith in Christ,
and be good to one another. Is that so hard?
As a Christian, I love all - even those in other faiths who occasionally attack
sacred things I hold dear and which hurt to hear expressed - because Jesus set
the example and told us to do likewise. My life has been transformed because of
God the Father's divine Plan of Salvation, Christ the Lord's
teachings, the writings of inspired men and women of these latter days, but
mostly through the unarguable witness of the Holy Ghost so many times in my life
that to question them would be ludicrous, and to deny them would place me in
opposition against God and His Gospel. While not trying in any way
to attack others, our clear declaration of faith-commitments invariably appear
to some to be back-handed attacks or counter-attacks on them and their beliefs.
If we're "right," that's all there is to it; and if we claim
others are "wrong" in any way, it only accentuates the line that is
drawn between us.Nonetheless, we can and should work with others,
differences or difficulties aside, to improve matters when possible, and join in
opposition against potentially damaging issues in society which confuse or
morpunktJust between you and me, since you brought it up. I've
thought a lot about why Romney did not become President of the U.S. I feel that
had he become the leader of the "Great Satan" as the U.S. is looked upon
by so many, that there could have been a horrible backlash and danger to the
Church worldwide. With Temples going up all over and now some 80 thousand
missionairies worldwide, the target factor would have risen tremendously on the
Church simply as a way to get the President. Imagine the pressure Romney would
have been under if a Temple were invaded and taken over by some anti American
group. Or worse imagine the pressure to compromise with terriorists holding
missionaries hostage. To a man like Mitt, those would have been like his own
children being held. It would have been awful. In some ways Iam glad he will
not be put in that position. Maybe the work of the Church going forward is just
so much more important than who the President is. Just a thought.
At any rate, there have been many thoughtful - and, occasionally, funny -
comments here. We Latter-day Saints, as a religious group and as individuals,
have long considered the impact we have on other religions, and their impact on
us. Many of us in dialogues such as this, in an effort to be fair and
impartial, hedge our comments with, "Religious differences aside..." and
then go on to extrapolate on commonalities in areas of mutual concern where all
could benefit from cooperation. In general, this is a wonderful thing, with many
future friendships blooming on the horizon. Honestly, however, it also means
that some of other faiths will end up joining the LDS Church, and some LDS
members will leave the Church or, at least temporarily, begin worshiping
elsewhere. This will bring hurt feelings to families and congregations on both
sides. We cannot want to see loved ones "leave the faith," even while we
admit the value of following our conscience. Harsh feelings and words often
follow these changes, instead of caring dialogue to soften the blow of what
clearly seem to be the abandonment of previous commitments and community.
Inherent Christian commitment is stretched to the maximum at these times.
I guess this is good, but I'm not sure that it really impacts our worship.
@ Understanding Evangelical, Greek for "gospel": (evangelion), eu-
"good" and angelion "message", the message of Jesus Christ.RE: Brother Lawrence - God said unto Moses,” I am “(the
BEING) )HE WHO IS (ho on): and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of
Israel, HE WHO IS hath sent me unto you. (LXX Exodus 3:14).(Jesus)…
you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that “I
(ego)am(eimi)” he, you will die in your sins.”(John 8:24) Jesus is
saying, He is God (the son) it’s She’ol for those who deny it. .. the love of God, because he laid down his life for us….(1John 3:16
KJV) God on the cross.RE: m.g. scott, “Soft Answers to Hard
Questions”, Darl Andersen book provides ways to convince Christian pastors
that Mormons are Christians, too. The first objective is to convert a
member of the Christian church to Mormonism then convince the Pastor to work
with Mormons on a community project. “We could win[take] a thousand
converts by greater access to members of his church.”
I am a member of First Baptist Church of Murfreesboro, TN. I am horrified that
Albert Mohler came to speak on the BYU campus, only to tell those Mormons
present that they were not going to heaven. How arrogant and disrespectful can a
guy be?? I am ASHAMED of his remarks and I want to apologize. I am NOT HIS KIND
OF BAPTIST!! It's not for me - or for him - to decide who goes and who
does not go to heaven!!!
Detente? Who says religion doesn't divide us? It sure does.
Make no mistake, there is no way that evangelicals who are fanatics about taking
the Bible's every word literally are going to accept people who have
additional books, and doctrinal differences. Millions of them view the lds
people as (fill in the blank w/ rude word).The lds church is admired
by the evans for the ability to put across social issues and for the qualities
of its membershipThey may need you to help meet common goals, but
are unlikely to ever respect or accept you. The lds have to decide if "being
taken on dates because you are pretty, but never getting to meet the
parents" is an acceptable status for you.
Evangelicals can believe any thing they want, hold any view they want, including
negative views towards Mormons. The fact remains, it shows they really don"t
practice what they preach and it certainly does not make them the gatekeepers to
Esquire - I truly understand your concern about the LDS church being perceived
negatively if the leaders focus exclusively on friendships with
ultraconservative fundamentalist Christians. If there could be any group more
negatively perceived than Latter-day Saints, that group would be it. But I do think that, even in the midst of the new "evangelical moment"
in Mormondom, there have also been moments that aligned the leadership of the
church or BYU with individuals from other ideological perspectives. For example,
Senator Harry Reid has also spoken at BYU. Several leaders of the church
attended the inauguration of President Barack Obama. The leaders of the church
have joined with other faiths in their relief efforts for people undergoing
various hardships. The public sphere contains voices from multiple
perspectives when it comes to moral questions even as basic as whether people
should get married or just live together. I think that the leaders of the church
like it when they find other voices in the public sphere that can sing in
harmony with the songs they are singing.
BeSmartCheyenne, WYAgreed Fredex.I think the main reason why
many faiths are setting aside there bias'is that many faith are
worried about the freedom of religion so they are rallying together..... A
common belief now is that the four-fathers trully meant" freedom from
religion"I don't know what that entails but it is worrisome.Please do not worry -- it means "the ability of a person not to have
another person's religion effect them or be pushed on them", ie;1-- Laws are made by the Constitution, not what someone's church wants2-- People do not have to listen to religious preaching at work, in the Army,
etc.3-- No one has the right to break public accommodation laws because of
his beliefs.etc (if you are open to the public, you serve everyone) If
religious person A can refuse to serve Gays, B can refuse to serve mormons, C
can refuse Filipinos. What a mess we would have!The Forefathers
meant that everyone should be free to practice or not practice religions.If religious people can make laws that limit the rights of other
citizens who believe differently, we would be one step from Mussolini.
Keep religion out of government and keep politics out of religion and we will
all be better off.
If anyone can answer this question accurately and honestly, I'll shut up
and leave this alone: Why do Evangelicals get to define what constitutes a
I am a Latter-day Saint with a deep appreciation of the richness and spiritual
examples of other Christians (particularly those among the evangelical
community). I have been uplifted and strengthened by good friends from a number
of Christian denominations. They each have an abiding faith and a genuine
relationship with their Savior. God's hand is evident. They feel God's
love in their lives and are guided to righteous choices. They are good fathers
and mothers. They are dutiful children. They are true friends. I have also been
blessed by Christian writers and musicians of other denominations whose work has
made a difference in my spiritual life. All who have a sincere relationship with
Christ will be led from truth to truth until we all come together in that unity
of the faith that God intended. We can learn from and be strengthened by one
another and appreciate the truths the Holy Spirit communicates to our souls.
Jesus said it best: "Draw near unto me, and I will draw near unto you".
I believe in the restoration of the Gospel, which teaches me we are all
God's precious children.
I was once asked, "Do you believe in Jesus as your Personal Savior? My
reply, "Yes." Next question, "Have you been saved?" I replied,
"By your definition, Yes. By mine I still have work to do." And from there was a good discussion on how works also fit into salvation. It
was amazing the agreement there was on most of the things. Then I was asked
about my religion and beliefs. The final result was a visit with missionaries
and baptism.By entering not into argument or religion bashing we
were able to get past the minor so-called differences, change opinions and come
to the realization of what Christ would have as his church. Many
stone walls tumble when confronted with scripture and logic.
@ The Solution,Sorry, but I neither agree, nor have the same
feelings as you about other religions. You have to love people just the way
they are. It is NOT an us versus them mentality in any ward I've ever
attended, and I have attended quite a few across the US and the World as a
Not going to happen. Latter-Day Saints are making a big mistake trusting these
guys. They will use us and then throw us under the bus just like they do anyone
else who stands in their way. This is also their way of trying to corrupt our
youth and some of our more weak-minded members with false doctrines promising
cheap grace and easy salvation. We are best standing on our own, as we always
have, for the sake of the integrity of the Church and its reputation among
Before Mormonism.. there was already the debate among the Christian faiths as to
are we saved by grace.. or by works? There were Christian faiths that did not
hold to the creeds of many of the other Christian faiths. There are Christian
faiths that do not see the "Trinity" as a doctrine they believe in. And
here is the interesting part... they all have the same book to refer to... the
Bible... and nothing else. Yet here we come with our
"golden" Bible in addition to their Bible and instantaneously it becomes
us vs them. I see more references from the Christian faiths as to our
understanding of who God was.. and now is.. as their main thrust more than any
other "doctrinal" issues. It all comes down to ONE God.. There belief
there is only ONE.. and ours.. there is only ONE we worship. Their ONE has even
taken 3.. and still made them ONE.. so focused are they on the ONE. And their
definition of a Christian is belief in ONE God. So.. we are out... and
that's fine with me. I don't accept their definition of Christianity.
I know which God I worship.. the ONE.
@MrNirom1Please explain, is that One you favor Allah, Adam, Jesus, Elohim,
RE: MrNirom1, I know which God I worship.. the ONE.You believe that
God is one=(*heis); well and good. Even the demons believe that—and
tremble with fear.(James 2:19 NET).The Father, the Word, and the
Holy Spirit; and these three are One= (*heis) these three agree as One=(**en)
(1John 5:7,8 KJV & JST & 3 Nephi 11:27,36).)(*heis,1520=the
cardinal #1 But, We are One=(**en)they are )One=(**en) Jn., 17:20-22. One in
unity,true.(**en 1722, Preposition)they are different Greek words. 3 persons One God. "One in substance”. … the express image of
his person(substance, 5287).Hebrews 1:3.C.S Lewis,” If
Christianity was something we were making up, of course we would make it easier.
But it is not. We cannot compete, in simplicity, with people who are inventing
religions[JS]. How could we? We are dealing with fact. Of course anyone can be
simple if he has no facts to bother about." The three personal God
“Mere Christianity. Lewis gives some other analogies of the Tri(3) Unity.
@skeptic LOL Thor. I already stated it but for you I will repeat it.
"There is only ONE we worship". The Father of our spirits... not our
human bodies. The name we give to the Father of our spirits is Elohim. To the
Son.. Jesus or Jehovah. Jehovah is in spiritual form before being born as Jesus
in human form. Jesus is the only person who came to earth that was begotten by
the Father.. in other words.. the only one to have the Father of his spirit..
also be the Father of his body. To the third member of the Godhead.. The Holy
Ghost. Three individuals.. not of the same substance... but purpose. @sharrona CS Lewis was not a prophet of God... Joseph Smith however..
@gmlewisGreat story!I was thinking about the comment
that Baptist preacher made to you where he said, "He insisted that the word
Christian was reserved for those who fit the orthodox view..."The thing about having a particular "view" is that regardless of how
much we think we share a common view, no two people have the same view. They are
different because each is colored by so many factors such as history, choices,
education, experience, etc. We each walk a different path.The Gospel
of Jesus Christ is a path that, when we turn from our path and follow His,
allows us to see things from a particular perspective and helps ameliorate the
differences we have with others when it comes to understanding the things we
must do to return to our Heavenly Father's presence.
@The Scientist Speaking of the "The Great Apostasy is not a put down of
other religions.. just a statement of fact. Even they know that they can not
ALL be right. For a majority left the Catholic Church for that very reason and
reformed their own version. Discontent has been a major factor in the birth of
all these new "Christian" faiths. Mormonism was not born on reform..
but on restoration. Bring back that which was lost.Joseph stating
what was said to him by God is nothing more than fact.. not opinion. God's
feelings about what man has done with his doctrines is of God's opinion..
not man's. Prophets throughout the ages have never been liked for what
they have said concerning the people and their actions. Why would thy like it
RE: MrNirom1,.. There is only ONE we worship. Which One?Mosiah
7:27”… that Christ was the God, the Father of all things,
…”"I have always declared God to be a distinct
personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father,
and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three
constitute three distinct personages and ‘three Gods," (Teachings of
Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370). Hear, O Israel: The
LORD(YHWH/Jesus)our God(Elohim), the LORD(YHWH) is ONE(Deut 6:4).God(Elohim) spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD(YHWH/Jesus)(EX
6:2).YHWH is a personal name referring to the God of Israel. It is
translated "LORD". Elohim is the generic term for god or gods.
More conversation is better. Misconceptions multiply in the shaddows- I welcome
the sunshine of openness and mutual respect that will emerge from this dialogue
between people of faith.
@sharrona Jehovah, YYHWH, and Jesus are all the same person.. They
represented God the Father.. whom we call.. Elohim. I don't care what the
Greek word for "Gods" was.. for us.. we use the name Elohim to represent
the name for the Father.. the Father of our spirits. In a sense..
the Father & the Son are ONE God.. for Jehovah, YYHWY, and Jesus all spoke
for the Father.. to do his bidding.. not their own. And for Mosiah in the Book
of Mormon.. Jesus and God where the same person to them. Jesus is the
"Father" of our bodies.. as he was the creator of them.. yet doing it
for the Father.. but he created the human body for Adam and Eve. And it needed
to be that way because what Jesus created.. he also redeems. And being the
redeemer was what the Father had asked of him. That is how Jesus is the
Father.. and the Son.. The Father of our bodies.. and the Son of the Father of