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Mormon-evangelical detente? Mouw, Zacharias to speak to LDS again

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  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    Oct. 30, 2013 10:28 p.m.

    If this attempt at a "détente" had occurred ~2-4 years ago, then maybe the throngs of Evangelicals who sat-out the last presidential election, due to Romney's perceived "cult" Mormonism, would have voted for him. These same groups backed Rick Santorum's campaign, which forever damaged Mitt's 2nd presidential bid, simply because they would rather vote for a Catholic than a heretical Mormon. I heard this said from people in my area, here in So. Cal. One can only imagine what it was like in the bible belt. They, at this point, are feeling much more threatened by the Obama appointees who are eroding away at the religious freedoms we both enjoy.
    I think it's a little too late to come begging for our leadership acumen, at this point. How sad and somewhat pathetic.

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    Oct. 31, 2013 12:18 a.m.

    People don't need to agree on all points of doctrine in order to recognize the good, the godliness, and the enlightenment which may be found in other religious faiths. Those who are honestly seeking after these things should recognize and appreciate people from other faiths who are striving to seek the same things. As a long-time LDS church member, I have had the privilege of studying and learning about various religions including Islam, the Sikh community, Eastern Orthodoxy, Zoroastrianism, the Baha'i Faith,and others, and have tried to set this same example for my children.

  • gmlewis Houston, TX
    Oct. 31, 2013 4:09 a.m.

    I once had a very respectful conversation with a Baptist minister where we agreed not to debate but rather to discuss our faith in Christ. After I bore a fervent testimony of the Savior, His mission and the Plan of Salvation, the minister commented that I evidently had a living, vibrant faith in Jesus Christ. He then said that he didn't understand why we called ourselves Christians if we held unorthodox views of the Trinity. I replied that this is because we have a living, vibrant faith in Jesus Christ. He insisted that the word Christian was reserved for those who fit the orthodox view, but accepted a copy of The Book of Mormon and promised to read it. We both left the conversation with a better understanding.

  • jeanie orem, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 7:54 a.m.

    As a family we attended a local evangelical church to give our kids an experience with another Christian faith. The pastor and his wife were very welcoming and warm to us even knowing we were LDS. The pastor jokingly said, "I know you Mormons work hard on Sundays. If you ever want a day of rest come worship with us and we'll take care of everything." We thought that was great. We told him it was tempting.

    Christ did not condemn those who believed differently as much as he condemned hypocrites. We have the critical thing in common with evangelicals and that is a firm belief that without Christ we are nothing. It is so much more Christian to start there and build on that than argue over differences.

  • Tutanikai Murray, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 8:01 a.m.

    I'll have a greater belief in this "detente" when evangelical leaders start inviting LDS speakers to their universities and conferences. So far, it seems most of the initiative is coming from the Mormons, and I don't see or hear much reciprocal action from the evangelical side. Well, at least some of them are accepting the LDS invitations--that's a start. When an LDS apostle is invited to speak at a major evangelical institution, then I'll be impressed.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 8:11 a.m.

    Mormons need to remember that Evangelicals will never see Mormons as Christians. While attempts to smooth the waters may be fine to some extent, I would caution not to get too cozy. Evangelicals will turn on Mormons when it is in their interest, and they will use Mormons for political purposes. From the perspective of ideology, if this is a sign of the Church moving more into the realm of conservativism, I am not happy. It is not wise nor inspired. Evangelical conservativism is not true Christianity. I would rather see the Church reach out to faiths from the other end of the spectrum, or at least from across the board. Ultimately,tying the Church to the conservative wing of those who profess to be Christian is doomed and effectively excludes those who have a more liberal view of the Gospel. In the long run, the Church will have marginalized itself at a time when it is on the cusp of being a true world wide religion.

  • Kaladin Greeley, CO
    Oct. 31, 2013 9:10 a.m.

    @Esquire - so you don't believe in the leaders of the church?

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 9:17 a.m.

    @kaladin: which church?

  • Tom in MS Madison, MS
    Oct. 31, 2013 9:49 a.m.

    @Esquire - what about the great friendships we have with the Roman Catholics? And other faiths? This is just one section of the "Christian Faith", or "The Church" as they would put it. We have dialogue with many of the various sects. The Evangelicals would amount to just one of our large group of friends of other faiths. I think your thoughts are misdirected at best.

  • FredEx Salt Lake, Ut
    Oct. 31, 2013 9:52 a.m.

    The problem I see with these types of scenarios is that it implies that we are somehow obligated to appease one another and apologize for the beliefs we hold dear. Sure, the Mormon church professes to be the one and only, which may appear arrogant, but at the same time every other religion says Mormonism is false, so how is that any less arrogant? We all have the right to believe as we feel we should, so why can't we just leave it at that?

    There are plenty of religions out there that most of us have never heard of. Do we really need to go out of our way to point out how wrong we think they are?

    Live your life. Be a good person. Let others do the same.

  • m.g. scott clearfield, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 10:00 a.m.

    Coming from a non religion background one thing I noticed about the LDS Church was that they were not spending time trying to run down other peoples faith that differed from theirs. When I was investigating the LDS Church I began to get a lot of anti Mormon information. However I never had any Mormon who was teaching me go negative on any other churches. In Southern California where I was, there were whole ministries whose primary purpose seemed to be based on running down all the other churches like LDS, Jehovah's Witnesses, 7th Day Adventist, ect. To me, that did not feel like what a church should be spending it's time doing. "By their fruits you shall know them."

  • RedWings CLEARFIELD, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 10:05 a.m.

    There really is no "conservative" or "liberal" Gospel. Christ's words are clear. It is us as humans who change things by including our personal opinions and feelings. I don't see that happeneing with any of the Prophets of the LDS Church. Each had his own focus, but the direction came from God.

    This is why the Church always tells us at election time that the principles of the gospel can be found in the platforms of all major political parties. Too many of my fellow members want to either simplify things by combining their religion and their politics, or, worse yet, stretching their interpretation of the gospel to fit their political opinion.

    Politics is temporal. The Gospel is eternal. Many democrats and republicans will end up in the Celestial Kingdom, but it will not be their party affiliation that got them there....

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 31, 2013 10:08 a.m.

    Agreed Fredex.
    I think the main reason why many faiths are setting aside there bias'
    is that many faith are worried about the freedom of religion so they are rallying together.
    I had a friend who worked in the federal government. A common belief now is that the four-fathers trully meant" freedom from religion"
    I don't know what that entails but it is worrisome.

  • The Solution Dayton, OH
    Oct. 31, 2013 10:28 a.m.

    First of all, get rid of the us verse them mentality. Part of the reasons evangelicals don't see us as "Christians" is because we've spen so much time setting ourselves apart. We LDS are raised with a defense mechanism that we don't really trust people of other faiths, and we get defensive and easily offended over minor things. Obviously, I'm using big generalities here, but if you have been in the Church for very long, you know what I'm talking about.

    A few years ago, I made a friend at work who is a true blue, born-again Baptist. When I first met him and he started asking questions about my beliefs, my red-alert radar subconsciously kicked in. Over time I found that he was genuinely interested in my faith, and I didn't need to suspect anything. We've had the most wonderful conversations, and through that he shared with me his view of what it means to be called and saved, and it was a beautiful experience. I love that man, and we are brothers in Christ.

  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    Oct. 31, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    @m g Scott
    I hear you. I am also from So. Cal and a convert. I had the same experience.
    Now, it appears that these same people are begging us to help them with our church's collective leadership acumen, in the midst of this perceived impending religious crisis. How ironic indeed. They certainly didn't want that "cult member" Romney though. Instead. These same people told me personally that they would rather "sit out" the election, than vote for a Mormon. It's pathetic.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Oct. 31, 2013 10:52 a.m.

    Perhaps the Saints can make nice with the evangelicals, but why do they seek association with us? Are we values for integrity and Christian virtues, or are we simply seen as another voting block to be mined on Election Day?

    Church members had the same choice a year ago: "peculiar people" OR just trying to be like everyone else, complete with material greed and disdain for the poor. The pharisees are gone, but the record shows us how to benefit from their bad example. Have we?

  • gittalopctbi Glendale, AZ
    Oct. 31, 2013 10:52 a.m.

    "I know you Mormons work hard on Sundays. If you ever want a day of rest come worship with us and we'll take care of everything."

    LOL! Great story, jeanie.

  • FredEx Salt Lake, Ut
    Oct. 31, 2013 10:56 a.m.

    "Evangelicals will never see Mormons as Christians."

    Why does is matter what Evangelicals think of Mormons? It certainly doesn't matter what Muslims or Catholics think of Mormons.

  • FredEx Salt Lake, Ut
    Oct. 31, 2013 11:04 a.m.

    BeSmart wrote: A common belief now is that the four-fathers trully meant" freedom from religion"

    What the forefathers truly meant was that government should keep its nose out of religion. The First Amendment states that congress shall make no law respecting religion. In other words, keep your nose out of it.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 31, 2013 11:50 a.m.

    FredEx
    I agree with you again.
    I just hope that our freedoms get maintained.
    So I can believe and worship as I want.
    And not worry about being interfered with
    by government or other religions

  • The Scientist Provo, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 12:02 p.m.

    m.g. Scott wrote:

    "Coming from a non religion background one thing I noticed about the LDS Church was that they were not spending time trying to run down other peoples faith that differed from theirs. When I was investigating the LDS Church I began to get a lot of anti Mormon information. However I never had any Mormon who was teaching me go negative on any other churches.

    Other than the irony of your comment itself "running down" other Churches, have you never heard Mormons preach about "The Great Apostasy?" Have you never read in the official scriptures, the Doctrine and Covenants:

    "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . ." (See also Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 1, p. 5-6).

    Or this:

    "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 270.)

  • gmlewis Houston, TX
    Oct. 31, 2013 12:22 p.m.

    @The Scientist quoted the Lord as saying all their creeds were an abomination. The Lord also said "For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven." (D&C 1:31-32).

    The Lord views anything other than the pure truth to be an abomination, for He is a God of truth and cannot lie. He is the Source of salvation, so He can say it any way that He wants to. He just wants us to repent and be forgiven.

  • Brother Lawrence - Kaysville Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 12:25 p.m.

    Let me explain my background and position. I have a college degree in Comparative Religion and have served three LDS missions, serving twice on ministerial associations in Colorado and Pennsylvania as representative of the Church in their various communities. I've also travelled to the US-Mexico border with a multi-faith group studying immigration issues and how different religious groups help in various needs of immigrants and their impact on community resources; and I've worked with Habitat for Humanity and other groups that have warily allowed a Mormon to join them in activities for the good of the community. This is all to the good, as I see it.

    These associations have brought both satisfaction and heartache, because real differences persist, and our doctrines are clear, as The Scientist noted in his comments earlier. If we, and traditional Christian and Orthodox churches, did not believe our own positions that we are "the true Church," we would lose our identity in a wild theological jumble and prove our lack of commitment to our faith. Most of us feel we have made covenants which do not allow for equivocation, even while we attempt to "play nice" with others. (Continued...)

  • Brother Lawrence - Kaysville Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 12:42 p.m.

    What all this boils down to is that it's grand to be nice and work with others for the betterment of our communities at large, but that doctrinal differences will still be there in the background to strain relationships and keep us separate. Other churches are losing members to the "Mormons" and we sometimes lose members as well, though at a much lower percentage, as studies have shown. Some of our LDS writings clearly point out that "we are right and they are wrong," and anti-Mormon literature basically is saying the same in reverse, while nit-picking about LDS doctrines and taking LDS quotations out of context in ways that seem to us to be wrong-headed while deliberately attacking things we believe to be true in various hurtful ways.

    I particularly wonder, in the present course of dialogues, whether Ravi Zacharias will now repudiate his earlier published comments against the "Mormons" made in the book, "Kingdom of the Cults" which he co-wrote with Walter Martin. Of course not! To do so is as unlikely as for the LDS Church to edit the Joseph Smith story to make it more evangelically-friendly. (Continued...)

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 12:53 p.m.

    2nd try

    I'm not purposely trying to be disruptive here, but I wonder what Jesus thought of the "evangelicals" of his day; what was his attitude toward them? I think the New Testament provides ample evidence that Jesus had no time for the evangelicals of his day and did not care to associate or align with them. For most of my life it seems like we have followed Jesus' example. So I'm interested in why we now seem to be taking a different path?

  • surferlou Albuquerque, NM
    Oct. 31, 2013 1:03 p.m.

    I have been angered many times by members of Lutheran, Evangelical, and Baptist faith's who proclaim Mormons are not Christian. I think it's huge that a leader of another faith would address the LDS church and proclaim his faith "sinned" against the LDS church. There will never be complete acceptance of each other's tenets, but there ought to be mutual respect and appreciation for the broader things we all believe in common: faith in Christ, and be good to one another. Is that so hard?

  • Brother Lawrence - Kaysville Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 1:13 p.m.

    As a Christian, I love all - even those in other faiths who occasionally attack sacred things I hold dear and which hurt to hear expressed - because Jesus set the example and told us to do likewise. My life has been transformed because of God the Father's divine Plan of Salvation, Christ the Lord's teachings, the writings of inspired men and women of these latter days, but mostly through the unarguable witness of the Holy Ghost so many times in my life that to question them would be ludicrous, and to deny them would place me in opposition against God and His Gospel.

    While not trying in any way to attack others, our clear declaration of faith-commitments invariably appear to some to be back-handed attacks or counter-attacks on them and their beliefs. If we're "right," that's all there is to it; and if we claim others are "wrong" in any way, it only accentuates the line that is drawn between us.

    Nonetheless, we can and should work with others, differences or difficulties aside, to improve matters when possible, and join in opposition against potentially damaging issues in society which confuse or destroy faith.

  • m.g. scott clearfield, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 1:30 p.m.

    morpunkt

    Just between you and me, since you brought it up. I've thought a lot about why Romney did not become President of the U.S. I feel that had he become the leader of the "Great Satan" as the U.S. is looked upon by so many, that there could have been a horrible backlash and danger to the Church worldwide. With Temples going up all over and now some 80 thousand missionairies worldwide, the target factor would have risen tremendously on the Church simply as a way to get the President. Imagine the pressure Romney would have been under if a Temple were invaded and taken over by some anti American group. Or worse imagine the pressure to compromise with terriorists holding missionaries hostage. To a man like Mitt, those would have been like his own children being held. It would have been awful. In some ways Iam glad he will not be put in that position. Maybe the work of the Church going forward is just so much more important than who the President is. Just a thought.

  • Brother Lawrence - Kaysville Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 1:34 p.m.

    At any rate, there have been many thoughtful - and, occasionally, funny - comments here. We Latter-day Saints, as a religious group and as individuals, have long considered the impact we have on other religions, and their impact on us. Many of us in dialogues such as this, in an effort to be fair and impartial, hedge our comments with, "Religious differences aside..." and then go on to extrapolate on commonalities in areas of mutual concern where all could benefit from cooperation. In general, this is a wonderful thing, with many future friendships blooming on the horizon. Honestly, however, it also means that some of other faiths will end up joining the LDS Church, and some LDS members will leave the Church or, at least temporarily, begin worshiping elsewhere. This will bring hurt feelings to families and congregations on both sides. We cannot want to see loved ones "leave the faith," even while we admit the value of following our conscience. Harsh feelings and words often follow these changes, instead of caring dialogue to soften the blow of what clearly seem to be the abandonment of previous commitments and community. Inherent Christian commitment is stretched to the maximum at these times.

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    Oct. 31, 2013 2:38 p.m.

    I guess this is good, but I'm not sure that it really impacts our worship.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 3:03 p.m.

    @ Understanding Evangelical, Greek for "gospel": (evangelion), eu- "good" and angelion "message", the message of Jesus Christ.

    RE: Brother Lawrence - God said unto Moses,” I am “(the BEING) )HE WHO IS (ho on): and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, HE WHO IS hath sent me unto you. (LXX Exodus 3:14).
    (Jesus)… you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that “I (ego)am(eimi)” he, you will die in your sins.”(John 8:24) Jesus is saying, He is God (the son) it’s She’ol for those who deny it.
    .. the love of God, because he laid down his life for us….(1John 3:16 KJV) God on the cross.

    RE: m.g. scott, “Soft Answers to Hard Questions”, Darl Andersen book provides ways to convince Christian pastors that Mormons are Christians, too.
    The first objective is to convert a member of the Christian church to Mormonism then convince the Pastor to work with Mormons on a community project. “We could win[take] a thousand converts by greater access to members of his church.”

  • appdancer murfreesboro, rutherford co., TN
    Oct. 31, 2013 4:01 p.m.

    I am a member of First Baptist Church of Murfreesboro, TN. I am horrified that Albert Mohler came to speak on the BYU campus, only to tell those Mormons present that they were not going to heaven. How arrogant and disrespectful can a guy be?? I am ASHAMED of his remarks and I want to apologize. I am NOT HIS KIND OF BAPTIST!! It's not for me - or for him - to decide who goes and who does not go to heaven!!!

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 4:14 p.m.

    Detente? Who says religion doesn't divide us? It sure does.

  • Bob K porland, OR
    Oct. 31, 2013 5:25 p.m.

    Make no mistake, there is no way that evangelicals who are fanatics about taking the Bible's every word literally are going to accept people who have additional books, and doctrinal differences. Millions of them view the lds people as (fill in the blank w/ rude word).

    The lds church is admired by the evans for the ability to put across social issues and for the qualities of its membership

    They may need you to help meet common goals, but are unlikely to ever respect or accept you. The lds have to decide if "being taken on dates because you are pretty, but never getting to meet the parents" is an acceptable status for you.

  • U-tar Woodland Hills, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 5:40 p.m.

    Evangelicals can believe any thing they want, hold any view they want, including negative views towards Mormons. The fact remains, it shows they really don"t practice what they preach and it certainly does not make them the gatekeepers to salvation.

  • newslady Orem, UT
    Oct. 31, 2013 5:51 p.m.

    Esquire - I truly understand your concern about the LDS church being perceived negatively if the leaders focus exclusively on friendships with ultraconservative fundamentalist Christians. If there could be any group more negatively perceived than Latter-day Saints, that group would be it.

    But I do think that, even in the midst of the new "evangelical moment" in Mormondom, there have also been moments that aligned the leadership of the church or BYU with individuals from other ideological perspectives. For example, Senator Harry Reid has also spoken at BYU. Several leaders of the church attended the inauguration of President Barack Obama. The leaders of the church have joined with other faiths in their relief efforts for people undergoing various hardships.

    The public sphere contains voices from multiple perspectives when it comes to moral questions even as basic as whether people should get married or just live together. I think that the leaders of the church like it when they find other voices in the public sphere that can sing in harmony with the songs they are singing.

  • Bob K porland, OR
    Oct. 31, 2013 6:05 p.m.

    BeSmart
    Cheyenne, WY
    Agreed Fredex.
    I think the main reason why many faiths are setting aside there bias'
    is that many faith are worried about the freedom of religion so they are rallying together.
    .... A common belief now is that the four-fathers trully meant" freedom from religion"
    I don't know what that entails but it is worrisome.

    Please do not worry -- it means "the ability of a person not to have another person's religion effect them or be pushed on them", ie;
    1-- Laws are made by the Constitution, not what someone's church wants
    2-- People do not have to listen to religious preaching at work, in the Army, etc.
    3-- No one has the right to break public accommodation laws because of his beliefs.
    etc (if you are open to the public, you serve everyone) If religious person A can refuse to serve Gays, B can refuse to serve mormons, C can refuse Filipinos. What a mess we would have!

    The Forefathers meant that everyone should be free to practice or not practice religions.

    If religious people can make laws that limit the rights of other citizens who believe differently, we would be one step from Mussolini.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Oct. 31, 2013 7:28 p.m.

    Keep religion out of government and keep politics out of religion and we will all be better off.

  • FredEx Salt Lake, Ut
    Oct. 31, 2013 8:30 p.m.

    If anyone can answer this question accurately and honestly, I'll shut up and leave this alone: Why do Evangelicals get to define what constitutes a Christian?

  • mpschmitt Boston, MA
    Nov. 1, 2013 8:40 a.m.

    I am a Latter-day Saint with a deep appreciation of the richness and spiritual examples of other Christians (particularly those among the evangelical community). I have been uplifted and strengthened by good friends from a number of Christian denominations. They each have an abiding faith and a genuine relationship with their Savior. God's hand is evident. They feel God's love in their lives and are guided to righteous choices. They are good fathers and mothers. They are dutiful children. They are true friends. I have also been blessed by Christian writers and musicians of other denominations whose work has made a difference in my spiritual life. All who have a sincere relationship with Christ will be led from truth to truth until we all come together in that unity of the faith that God intended. We can learn from and be strengthened by one another and appreciate the truths the Holy Spirit communicates to our souls. Jesus said it best: "Draw near unto me, and I will draw near unto you". I believe in the restoration of the Gospel, which teaches me we are all God's precious children.

  • Arizona Border Dude NACO, AZ
    Nov. 1, 2013 9:50 a.m.

    I was once asked, "Do you believe in Jesus as your Personal Savior? My reply, "Yes." Next question, "Have you been saved?" I replied, "By your definition, Yes. By mine I still have work to do."

    And from there was a good discussion on how works also fit into salvation. It was amazing the agreement there was on most of the things. Then I was asked about my religion and beliefs. The final result was a visit with missionaries and baptism.

    By entering not into argument or religion bashing we were able to get past the minor so-called differences, change opinions and come to the realization of what Christ would have as his church.

    Many stone walls tumble when confronted with scripture and logic.

  • Capt Moroni Perris, CA
    Nov. 1, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    @ The Solution,

    Sorry, but I neither agree, nor have the same feelings as you about other religions. You have to love people just the way they are. It is NOT an us versus them mentality in any ward I've ever attended, and I have attended quite a few across the US and the World as a whole. .

  • antodav TAMPA, FL
    Nov. 1, 2013 4:24 p.m.

    Not going to happen. Latter-Day Saints are making a big mistake trusting these guys. They will use us and then throw us under the bus just like they do anyone else who stands in their way. This is also their way of trying to corrupt our youth and some of our more weak-minded members with false doctrines promising cheap grace and easy salvation. We are best standing on our own, as we always have, for the sake of the integrity of the Church and its reputation among non-Christians.

  • MrNirom1 Aloha, OR
    Nov. 2, 2013 6:51 p.m.

    Before Mormonism.. there was already the debate among the Christian faiths as to are we saved by grace.. or by works? There were Christian faiths that did not hold to the creeds of many of the other Christian faiths. There are Christian faiths that do not see the "Trinity" as a doctrine they believe in. And here is the interesting part... they all have the same book to refer to... the Bible... and nothing else.

    Yet here we come with our "golden" Bible in addition to their Bible and instantaneously it becomes us vs them. I see more references from the Christian faiths as to our understanding of who God was.. and now is.. as their main thrust more than any other "doctrinal" issues. It all comes down to ONE God.. There belief there is only ONE.. and ours.. there is only ONE we worship. Their ONE has even taken 3.. and still made them ONE.. so focused are they on the ONE. And their definition of a Christian is belief in ONE God. So.. we are out... and that's fine with me. I don't accept their definition of Christianity. I know which God I worship.. the ONE.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 2, 2013 9:21 p.m.

    @MrNirom1
    Please explain, is that One you favor Allah, Adam, Jesus, Elohim, Thor,which one.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Nov. 2, 2013 9:47 p.m.

    RE: MrNirom1, I know which God I worship.. the ONE.

    You believe that God is one=(*heis); well and good. Even the demons believe that—and tremble with fear.(James 2:19 NET).

    The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are One= (*heis) these three agree as One=(**en) (1John 5:7,8 KJV & JST & 3 Nephi 11:27,36).
    )
    (*heis,1520=the cardinal #1 But, We are One=(**en)they are )One=(**en) Jn., 17:20-22. One in unity,true.(**en 1722, Preposition)they are different Greek words.

    3 persons One God. "One in substance”. … the express image of his person(substance, 5287).Hebrews 1:3.

    C.S Lewis,” If Christianity was something we were making up, of course we would make it easier. But it is not. We cannot compete, in simplicity, with people who are inventing religions[JS]. How could we? We are dealing with fact. Of course anyone can be simple if he has no facts to bother about." The three personal God “Mere Christianity. Lewis gives some other analogies of the Tri(3) Unity.

  • MrNirom1 Aloha, OR
    Nov. 3, 2013 1:42 a.m.

    @skeptic LOL Thor. I already stated it but for you I will repeat it. "There is only ONE we worship". The Father of our spirits... not our human bodies. The name we give to the Father of our spirits is Elohim. To the Son.. Jesus or Jehovah. Jehovah is in spiritual form before being born as Jesus in human form. Jesus is the only person who came to earth that was begotten by the Father.. in other words.. the only one to have the Father of his spirit.. also be the Father of his body. To the third member of the Godhead.. The Holy Ghost. Three individuals.. not of the same substance... but purpose.

    @sharrona CS Lewis was not a prophet of God... Joseph Smith however.. was.

  • JonathanPDX Portland, Oregon
    Nov. 3, 2013 9:03 a.m.

    @gmlewis

    Great story!

    I was thinking about the comment that Baptist preacher made to you where he said, "He insisted that the word Christian was reserved for those who fit the orthodox view..."

    The thing about having a particular "view" is that regardless of how much we think we share a common view, no two people have the same view. They are different because each is colored by so many factors such as history, choices, education, experience, etc. We each walk a different path.

    The Gospel of Jesus Christ is a path that, when we turn from our path and follow His, allows us to see things from a particular perspective and helps ameliorate the differences we have with others when it comes to understanding the things we must do to return to our Heavenly Father's presence.

  • MrNirom1 Aloha, OR
    Nov. 3, 2013 9:40 a.m.

    @The Scientist Speaking of the "The Great Apostasy is not a put down of other religions.. just a statement of fact. Even they know that they can not ALL be right. For a majority left the Catholic Church for that very reason and reformed their own version. Discontent has been a major factor in the birth of all these new "Christian" faiths. Mormonism was not born on reform.. but on restoration. Bring back that which was lost.

    Joseph stating what was said to him by God is nothing more than fact.. not opinion. God's feelings about what man has done with his doctrines is of God's opinion.. not man's. Prophets throughout the ages have never been liked for what they have said concerning the people and their actions. Why would thy like it anymore today?

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Nov. 3, 2013 8:53 p.m.

    RE: MrNirom1,.. There is only ONE we worship. Which One?

    Mosiah 7:27”… that Christ was the God, the Father of all things, …”

    "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and ‘three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370).

    Hear, O Israel: The LORD(YHWH/Jesus)our God(Elohim), the LORD(YHWH) is ONE(Deut 6:4).

    God(Elohim) spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD(YHWH/Jesus)(EX 6:2).

    YHWH is a personal name referring to the God of Israel. It is translated "LORD". Elohim is the generic term for god or gods.

  • TP TWIN FALLS, ID
    Nov. 6, 2013 2:54 p.m.

    More conversation is better. Misconceptions multiply in the shaddows- I welcome the sunshine of openness and mutual respect that will emerge from this dialogue between people of faith.

  • MrNirom1 Aloha, OR
    Nov. 9, 2013 7:58 p.m.

    @sharrona Jehovah, YYHWH, and Jesus are all the same person.. They represented God the Father.. whom we call.. Elohim. I don't care what the Greek word for "Gods" was.. for us.. we use the name Elohim to represent the name for the Father.. the Father of our spirits.

    In a sense.. the Father & the Son are ONE God.. for Jehovah, YYHWY, and Jesus all spoke for the Father.. to do his bidding.. not their own. And for Mosiah in the Book of Mormon.. Jesus and God where the same person to them. Jesus is the "Father" of our bodies.. as he was the creator of them.. yet doing it for the Father.. but he created the human body for Adam and Eve. And it needed to be that way because what Jesus created.. he also redeems. And being the redeemer was what the Father had asked of him. That is how Jesus is the Father.. and the Son.. The Father of our bodies.. and the Son of the Father of our Spirits.