Region 4 is a mess. This week there are 3 games: Pleasant Grove at Herriman,
Lone Peak at Lehi, and Westlake at Riverton. American Fork has finished region
play with a 3-3 record. I think Riverton beats Westlake but less certainty on
the other 2 games. Below are the 4 possible outcomes (given that Riverton wins).
First line lists the teams that would have to win for the standings to finish as
they are listed on the lines below. Herriman, LP, Riverton5-1:
Herriman4-2: LP, Riverton3-3: AF, PG2-4: Lehi0-6:
WestlakePG, LP, Riverton4-2: Herriman, LP, PG, Riverton3-3: AF2-4: Lehi0-6: WestlakeHerriman, Lehi,
Riverton5-1: Herriman4-2: Riverton3-3: AF, LP, Lehi, PG0-6: WestlakePG, Lehi, Riverton4-2: Herriman, PG,
Riverton3-3: AF, Lehi, LP0-6: Westlake
Continuation of Region 4 discussion. As I understand it, a tie breaker of some
sort is used to determine playoff seeding, but if teams would be eliminated from
the playoffs using tiebreakers, then a play-in game of some sort is used to
determine who goes to the playoffs. Tiebreakers will be required in all
scenarios for Region 4 and play-ins in 7 of the 8 possible outcomes. WOW!BTW, if Westlake pulls off the upset of Riverton, here are the other 4
possible outcomes:Herriman, LP, Westlake5-1: Herriman4-2: LP3-3: AF, PG, Riverton2-4: Lehi1-5: WestlakePG, LP, Westlake4-2: Herriman, LP, PG3-3: AF, Riverton2-4:
Lehi1-5: WestlakeHerriman, Lehi, Westlake5-1:
Herriman3-3: AF, LP, Lehi, PG, Riverton1-5: WestlakePG,
Lehi, Westlake4-2: Herriman, PG3-3: AF, Lehi, LP, Riverton1-5:
WestlakeI guess the only thing for certain is that Herriman is in in
any scenario. If PG, LP , and Riverton win this week there will be a 4-way tie
for first but no play-in. Any other outcomes will require play-ins
Realistically...there are only 4 scenarios left: Herriman/Lone Peak win;
Herriman/Lehi win; Pleasant Grove/Lone Peak win and Pleasant Grove/Lehi win.Herriman finishes first or tied for first in all 4 scenarios.Assuming a Riverton win over Westlake...Riverton finishes second in all
scenarios except for one where they are tied for first.Lone Peak
finishes third in 2 scenarios, tied for third in 1 scenario and tied for fourth
in 1 scenario.Pleasant Grove finishes fourth in 1 scenario, tied for
third in 2 scenarios and tied for first in 1 scenario.American Fork
is out of the playoffs in 2 scenarios, tied for third in 1 scenario and tied for
fourth in 1 scenario. American Fork's problem is that they are finished in
region play and their playoff hopes are hinging on a Lone Peak loss and then a
play-in/coinflip tie-breaker.Lehi is out of the playoffs in 2
scenarios, tied for third in 1 scenario and tied for fourth in 1
scenario...however, unlike American Fork, they play one last region game. A
Lehi win at least guarantees them a mix in tie-breaker for the #3 or #4 seed.
Sad thing is, any of the top 6 teams in Region 4 could potentially win Region 2,
and two of them will be left out of the playoffs! American Fork is the most
interesting team, they are really talented and have beaten the top two teams in
the region going in to this week (Herriman, Riverton) and would beat any team in
Region 2 by a couple of touchdowns. Not trying to clown on Region 2 here, more
just making the point of how competitively unbalanced the regions are.
@footballisgood - You have some good points...however...I think the only change
that could really be made would be to split up Region 2 and Region 3. Region 1
and Region 4 really can't be changed very much due to geography.This is the reason why I wish Utah would go to a power ranking system for the
playoffs. Imagine 1st round games like this using the most recent state
rankings:Bingham vs CottonwoodHerriman vs Pleasant GroveSyracuse vs LehiRiverton vs TaylorsvilleJordan vs American ForkDavis vs HunterLone Peak vs AltaBrighton vs NorthridgeUnder this, 4 teams would be affected: American Fork and Lehi would make the
playoffs where they wouldn't under the current policy and Layton and West
would not make the playoffs...where currently they will.So, while
there is a little bit of unbalance...its not by much. Currently all regions
will send 4 teams...under a power ranking system Region 1 would currently send
3, Region 2 would send 3, Region 3 would send 4 and Region 4 would send 6.Still...look for an interesting playoffs...I'm picking 2 Region 4
upsets: Pleasant Grove over Davis and Herriman over Brighton!!!
What if Herriman loses to PG, and LP beats Lehi. 4 way tie for first place.
You apply some kind of a tiebreaker (e.g. a series of coin flips) an Herriman
ends up with the 4th seed and has to go to Davis in the first round. Even
though the worst Herriman can do is tie for first, and they are guranteed a spot
in the state tournament, they are not necessarily guranteed the #1 seed.I think if you want to power rank the teams, you get rid of regions.
Give everyone a preseason game against a team from a different classification
and then play 8 or 9 games on a rotating schedule to base the power rankings on.
AF can also make the playoffs/playin game if Herriman beats PG. AF is Lehi and
Herriman fans this week haha.
Jordan fans are Lehi fans this week. If a region 4 team can upset Davis we get a
home game! And the only teams Jordan has lost to at home are #1 and #2 in state!
Or wait, maybe Lone Peak and Pleasant Grove winning would be better.....man this
@Parry is a Farce - You have a good point...a Pleasant Grove/Lone Peak win would
create a 4-way tie for #1. However, I'm not sure what the tiebreak would
be. I believe it would favor Herriman unless its simply a series of coin
tosses...here's why: Of the 3 other tied teams...Herriman would have beaten
2 of them (Riverton/Lone Peak). The same holds true for Riverton...they would
have beaten 2 of them (Pleasant Grove/Lone Peak). Lone Peak and Pleasant Grove
each would only have 1 win out of the 3 (Pleasant Grove over Herriman and Lone
Peak over Pleasant Grove). So, if things work out the way I believe...this
situation would actually create a tie for first between Herriman and Riverton
and then a tie for third between Lone Peak and Pleasant Grove if you use the
common opponent tiebreaker. If you then apply head to head as the second
tiebreaker you get #1 Herriman, #2 Riverton, #3 Lone Peak, #4 Pleasant Grove.@adwight - American Fork can only get into the mix with a Lehi win.@JDigger - Pleasant Grove is the team I believe will be #4 seed and that
can upset Davis.
I agree with JDigger, if anything you want upsets to happen. You also want Lone
Peak to lose this week because to be honest I don't think they can beat
Davis in the first round. Just what I think but I don't believe it and if
LP wins they probly match up with Davis in the first round. Let it be P.G, that
is the best case scenario. Although I think Riverton and Herriman can take out
Davis too. All you need is an offense that can out up points and Davis plus any
region 1 team is in trouble. If that happens Jordan gets a home playoff game in
the quarterfinals which would be amazing!
All this talk you are all mentioning is for nothing! No one will
beat Bingham! Nuff Said! good luck to everyone ! but
your all playing to see who plays Bingham in the finals!
binghamalumNot "playing to see who plays Bingham in the
finals", "playing to see who loses to Bingham in the final"
Bingham enters top 25 in USA Today's High School Football poll! Way to put
Utah on the map Miners!!!
Benzo you are mistaken. Teams will never be eliminated from the playoffs for
having the same record as another team, even if the other team beat them in the
regular season (I just read the region handbook). If PG loses, that would give
PG 3 region losses (LP, Riverton, Herriman). Their 3-3 record would be
identical to AF's (losses to LP, Lehi, PG), so they would play each other
for the 4 seed.
Jfan- I agree that Pleasant Grove could upset Davis but I believe Lone Peak can
as well. But even better than that would be Riverton or Herriman falling to 4th
in the coin flips. I think either of those teams stand a great chance at
knocking off the Darts. Thinking even further ahead, I don't think Ive ever
seen the diggers play Riverton.....might be fun to see them on the road to RES
@binghamalum - I believe that Bingham is the best team in Utah...however
I'm not as convinced as to their level of dominance as you are and
don't believe they are above being beaten. Herriman lost to Bingham by 13
and Brighton lost to Bingham by 11...I'm sure both teams would love a
rematch.@Parry is a Farce - I believe any team in 5A can be
beaten...and that includes Bingham.@adwight - I stand corrected...I
just now read the Region 4 handbook. The best scenario for American Fork is also
the best scenario for Herriman...which is a Herriman/Lone Peak win. It gives
Herriman #1, Riverton #2, Lone Peak #3 (no coin toss needed due to head to head)
and a game between Pleasant Grove and American Fork for the #4 seed. The worst
case scenario for American Fork would be Pleasant Grove/Lone Peak win which
would leave American Fork completely out. Herriman would actually be the first
seed 3 of the 4 scenarios with a Pleaant Grove/Lehi win being its worst
possibility due to the fact that 3 teams would coinflip for seeds #1, #2 and
#3.We'll all know by the end of tonight!!!
BigBen- Your thoughts on Bingham are spot on. I actually that there are 4 or 5
teams that if they put together a great game and Bingham has a few critical
mistakes could win. They are the best but definitely beatable!
Hey you guys are starting to make sense. Bingham is very beatable as well as
every one else. Tonights game with Alta and Bingham. Should be a great game and
a prelude to next Friday nights games. What would Bingham do if Nickols got hurt
tonight? Who is their next go to guy? Shultz? Im just asking because that's
pretty much the face of Bingham football this year? Jordan is scary because they
score pretty quick but their defense cant hold water. Brighton looks big and
athletic. Herriman is also a big team. Pleasant Grove is big up front but their
defense has big holes for short passes all day long. My biggest questions are
about Bingham and a exit plan if Nickols goes down? Can you guys enlighten us.
That would be cool.
It's going to be Alta and Bingham and Jordan and Brighton in the final
four. I have seen all the 5A teams play this year and I bet it will be those
four. They look the best right now. The reason why I put Alta there is because
how the bracket lines up for them.
LOL so all region 3 RES, that would be awesome! Do you think the USHAA would
plan another restructure or would they just let it go?
I don't know if that is a possibility though. LP is on a down year, just
like Alta and I don't think they could put up enough points on the board to
beat Davis. Riverton definitely can, and obviously Pleasant Grove can too. I
will definitely be score board watching tonight to see how it all plays out. Fun
night ahead! @ 5A football- I could see that possibility.
Alta's offense is really good and that just might carry them to RES. Maybe
not though, Taylorsville isn't an easy out in the first round
If you take the Parry numbers from this week, he agrees with 5A Football man.
He ranks 5A:BinghamBrightonJordanAltaRivertonSyracuseHerrimanDavisLone PeakPleasant
GroveAmerican ForkNorthridgelaytonLehiCottonwoodHunterWeberFremontWest JordanTaylorsvilleWestlakeCopper HillsWestViewmontGrangerHillcrest
@JDigger24 - I'm just not seeing an all Region 3 semifinals at RES. I will
say they have the best chance of any region of pulling it off. I believe
Brighton gets tripped up when they have to travel to Herriman in the
quarterfinals and believe Alta gets tripped up when they travel to Syracuse.
Herriman vs Jordan and Syracuse vs Bingham is what I see.@Parry is a
Farce - I would concur as well with 5A Football man and Parry's power
rankings. It almost goes hand in hand with my belief that Region 1 only
advances Syracuse to the quarterfinals, Region 2 advances none to the
quarterfinals, Region 3 advances 4 to the quarterfinals and Region 4 advances
Herriman, Riverton and Pleasant Grove to the quarterfinals. Your list is spot
on...I would only switch Pleasant Grove and Davis on that list.
Taylorsville seems really low and Syracuse seems really high......
Not my list. That is just listing the scores that Parry awards. I'm not
Noland Parry, I just have some beefs with his system.I agree with
JDigger24, Syracuse seems high and Taylorsville seems low. The fact that
Taylorsville has beaten Hunter and Cottonwood and will win that region yet is
ranked below Hunter and Cottonwood is the kind of beef I have. At the start of
the season I'd have put Hunter and Cottonwood (and West and Granger) ahead
of Taylorsville. But not now and the Parry system does not make those kind of
corrections. Parry had Jordan ranked #1 for the first 2 or 3 weeks
and only this week did they drop out of the #2 spot. I think they should have
dropped quicker, especially after Brighton beat them. Jordan got ranked high
early based on last year and stayed there despite losing.
Looks like a 4-way tie for first.
JDigger24, Hey a few of you gentleman on this thread have wondered why
Taylorsville is lower than some schools like Syracuse. Let me try and shed some
light on that subject for some of ya. You cant say since one team is the best in
their region means they are better than other teams in other regions. You need
to look at schedule and the other teams that have played or even common
opponents. Parry looks at all those things when he makes his rankings. I have
seen it said here that region 2 is week and people don't think anyone of
there teams wont advance past the first round. So looking at all those teams and
their records I can see why they are ranked the wat they are. Would Alta win
region 2 out right if they were in that region? Probably. It just makes sense
with the rankings. That's not to say region 2 isn't very good. They
just aren't as tough as some of the other regions. Are there week teams in
all regions? Sure there is. But that's why we still play the games each
week. Parry your awesome. Keep it up.
Would Alta win Region 2 outright if they were in their region? Um yeah, they
would beat every team in that region by 4-5 touchdowns. It is the worst 5A
region in the history of the UHSAA! If you took that region and had them play in
4A they are still below average, they would struggle in 3A too.
I just had to pose the question. Some teams are just not that good. That's
why some are lower and some higher.