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Mike Sorensen: Midterm grades are out for the state's college football teams

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  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Oct. 13, 2013 5:34 p.m.

    1 - 2 in Conference Play, all at home, qualify for a B+? That's an example of grade inflation is there ever was such a thing.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2013 5:40 p.m.

    "Two losses, one in overtime and the other by a touchdown, keep the Utes from getting an A."

    Seriously, Mike? In your examination of the AP Poll, did you happen to notice the number of votes received by the two teams the Utes lost to? Didn't think so.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2013 7:27 p.m.

    Utah's home loss in OT to an Oregon State team which lost to an FCS level Eastern Washington is what smack them the hardest. Similarly the BYU loss back at Virginia does the most damage to the Cougars. Utah State on the other hand simply had too many unrealistic expectations goven the coaching change in Logan, and the Aggies might be back to square one with the revolving door. Dave Arslanian only lasted 2 years after John L. Smith left for greener pastures (1999).

  • TheCoach Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 6:30 a.m.

    So what does this say about BYU's football program? Try & follow this logic ! if the Cougars lost to the Utes, who lost to Oregon State, who lost to Eastern Washington, who plays in the FCS? I say it means that BYU couldn't beat Weber State or Southern Utah this season, right? LOL Cougars get a D-

  • Mike Johnson Stafford, VA
    Oct. 14, 2013 7:41 a.m.

    Utah may deserve a B+, but most of its classes are AP classes.

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    Oct. 14, 2013 7:44 a.m.

    Utah has the better coach. Stanford the better players. Utah wins.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 8:11 a.m.

    Head to head: Utah
    Better win: Utah
    Worse loss: byU
    Harder schedule: Utah
    Higher ranking: Utah

    Can't wait to hear the spin about how byU is still better. I'll say this in advance:

    LOL!

    Utah is the one and ONLY premier program in the state of Utah

    And YES, having higher star recruiting classes every year the last 4 years is a big reason we are the best program in the state.

    Higher star teams = better talent

    Deal with it.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 14, 2013 8:33 a.m.

    Premier program? Only about ten of those in the nation not quite there yet.
    Good program, respected program, improving program.
    Premier not even close, that belongs to Alabama, LSU, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma teams with national titles.

  • Hawk Littleton, CO
    Oct. 14, 2013 8:35 a.m.

    Wow. I guess I need to re-read this article, because I didn't see ANY mention of BYU by Sorensen -- yet IMMEDIATELY the ute fans feel compelled to pull them into the conversation. Yet I have been told for MONTHS that the utes have moved on from BYU. After the big win on Saturday over Stanford and Oregon on the horizon, amazing that the obsession is still with BYU. By the way, how did the Buffs do on Saturday? Gotta keep and eye on that big "rivalry" game coming up in November, right?

  • Janca salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 14, 2013 8:54 a.m.

    Dear Mr Hawk, Please re-read the ENTIRE article before commenting and making *some BYU fans* appear unable to read online articles. (pssst, there are multiple pages...)

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 9:14 a.m.

    Hawk:

    When the headline mentions "state's college football TEAMS" and http links are imbeded for additional segments of a story, most of us take those as "clues" that all teams are covered in the story, SUU, Weber--even BYU. Utah was mentioned first because the writer gave it the best grade.

    Janca's right: some y "fans" appear unable to read online stories properly before getting indignant.

  • SoUtBoy25 Cedar City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    Utah's win against Stanford, BYU, and Utah State certainly qualify them for the highest grade in Utah. Their coaching has been excellent this season.

    That being said, I can't be more happy and excited for the Cougars this year and the potential this season. It's nice to root for a team that puts a good product on the field, has a competitive schedule, and is is on channel(s) the average joe can watch (anywhere in the world).

    Oh and last but not least, its nice to root for a program that doesn't have to put winning as its only measure of success.

  • LoveTheKittens The Middle Of, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 9:57 a.m.

    @SLC BYU Fan

    Your logic is flawed, BYU's worst loss is Utah: 'Utah's home loss in OT to an Oregon State team which lost to an FCS level Eastern Washington is what smack them the hardest.' Which beat BYU in cougarland.
    Right?

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 10:13 a.m.

    Hawk, you are doing a lot of wishful thinking. Contrary to what you want to believe, byu is NOT important to Utah fans. Further, can you please explain your preoccupation with the relationship between Utah and Colorado?

    Tell you what, sport, how about you read the rest of the article and then come back to this board and acknowledge your error.

    SoUtBoy25
    Good to hear that you are excited for the Cougars and that you sincerely believe they have put a good product on the field. How do you know it's a good product unless you measure the wins? As for competitive schedule...you do realize I'm sure that none of the teams byu plays this year are ranked.

    Also, I don't understand what you people think is so special about byu's tv arrangement. The only byu game I've seen (or even stumbled across) this year was the Utah game. I've seen every one of Utah's games as well as Utah State's games this year and I live no where near the State of Utah. Let me repeat that...I've seen every one of Utah State's games this year.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 10:35 a.m.

    Latest Rankings

    BYU > Utah > USU

    AP/Coaches/Sagarin

    #9/#10/#6 UCLA(5-0)
    #13/#13/#14 Stanford(5-1)
    #18/#18/#18 Oklahoma(5-1)
    ur/ur/#24 BYU(4-2)
    ur/ur/#25 Utah(4-2)
    ur/ur/#29 Texas(4-2)
    ur/ur/#37 Oregon St(5-1)
    ur/ur/#40 Georgia Tech(3-3)
    ur/ur/#41 Utah St(3-4)

    Utah is 29th in AP and 34th in Coaches in "Others Receiving Votes"

    Next Opponents
    BYU: at ur/ur/#56 Houston(5-0)
    Utah: at ur/ur/#36 Arizona(3-2)
    USU: at ur/ur/#140 New Mexico(2-4)

    -------

    Next big hurdle for Utah: win a road game against a PAC team with a winning record, something the Utes haven't done since 1996, interestingly, at Stanford 17-10.

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 10:37 a.m.

    Get it right, Sorensen: Utes deserve an A-, Cougars deserve a B-, Chuckie-less Aggies deserve a C+, and Weber State deserves a D-.

    Predicting the Utes lose to both Arizona schools plus USC is a slap in the face.

    Looks like Sorensen bleeds smurf blue.

    Go Utes!

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 14, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    @myperspective
    I agree that Utah games can not be seen all that often on TV.
    BYU does matter to Utah fans. Utah fans stormed the field last year, or did you not see that. You are wrong Wisconsin is ranked. Texas was ranked and probably will be again. Notre Dame will probably be ranked again.
    As for the TV thing. It really depends on what cable or satellite provider you have to be able to watch the games.
    If you live a long way from Utah why does it say SLC under your post?
    And just so everyone knows I live in Wyoming and have not seen a Utah game (besides BYU) but have watched all of the BYU games and a couple of Utah State's. It depends on where you live and your cable package.
    I hope all teams do well and BYU and Utah have done well both beating recognized National teams (Stanford is better this year so Utah's victory means more).

  • B C Park City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 10:46 a.m.

    MyPerspective
    Salt Lake City?

    "Also, I don't understand what you people think is so special about BYU's tv arrangement. The only BYU game I've seen (or even stumbled across) this year was the Utah game. I've seen every one of Utah's games as well as Utah State's games this year and I live no where near the State of Utah."

    LOL at your delusional spin.

    Every one of BYU's games so far this season has been NATIONALLY televised:

    at Virginia - ESPNU
    Texas - ESPN2
    Utah - ESPN2
    MTSU - ESPNU
    at Utah St - CBS Sports Network
    Georgia Tech - ESPNU

    btw, BYU's television arrangement ONLY applies to BYU home games, which have all been televised on one of the ESPN family of networks

  • B C Park City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 10:59 a.m.

    Samurai Jake

    Don't kid yourself, Sorensen is a dyed-in-the-wool Ute.

    Actual grades should be:

    BYU - B+
    Utah - B+
    USU - C+

    No unranked team deserves an A/A- and no losing team deserves higher than a C+

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 14, 2013 11:20 a.m.

    chrisb

    Despite all of your spin, BYU is still ranked higher:

    #24 BYU(4-2) #25 SOS > #25 Utah(4-2) #9 SOS

    Dealt with...

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    @B C:

    Don't kid yourself by thinking that the Utes and YbU should be ranked neck and neck. The Utes should be ranked A- because of their close losses to tough PAC-12 opponents, and signature victory over then #5 Stanford.

    YbU can't say the same thing. While Texas looks like they decided to finally wake up and play worthy of their recruiting stars, the YbU loss against lowly Virgina cancels that out.

    YbU needs to beat Wisconsin or Notre Dame to earn their way back into the A ranks, let alone beat Boise State and Houston first. Utes have proven themselves worthy, and now need to continue their winning ways. The Utes have proven that even Oregon will need to bring their A games!

    Go Utes!

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 11:50 a.m.

    Great win for the Utes, can't believe they beat Stanford. U will have a tough time vs ASU, WSU, and USC. Should be a good game vs Arizona. No chance vs Oregon. Two more wins for a bowl, I hope they can do it but it's going to be tough. All easier competition came early, now a tough road ahead.

    BYU has had a tougher road early on this season, tougher competition early, but will easily make their bowl game. Good, dominating win vs GaTech. Passing game is coming on and balancing the offensive output.

    USU has little chance of much w/o Keeton, what a shame!

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 14, 2013 11:54 a.m.

    Samurai Jake

    "Don't kid yourself by thinking that [BYU and Utah] should be ranked neck and neck."

    Don't kid yourself; according to Sagarin, that's EXACTLY how they are ranked!

    ur/ur/#24 BYU(4-2)
    ur/ur/#25 Utah(4-2)

  • BoSox4 St. George, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 12:15 p.m.

    Ranked higher where? I see Utah is the only Utah school receiving votes in any of the major polls.... USA Today Coach's Poll, AP Poll, Harris Poll, ESPN Power rankings... etc. etc. etc.
    Latest BCS Poll has Utah at #30 and our pathetic little brother at #41. As far as SOS goes Phil Steele has Utah at #12 and once again our pathetic little brother is lower than us at #49 lol byu makes me laugh because they always try to make excuses. Good luck the rest of the season byu in making a bowl game that nobody cares about while we sneak into a great bowl because the Pac-12 has actual decent bowl affiliations (even for the lower pack of the qualifying teams)

  • BoSox4 St. George, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 12:18 p.m.

    Correction: Phil Steele's current SOS has Utah SOS at 18 and byu at 25 but still Utah is better once again

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Oct. 14, 2013 12:48 p.m.

    BoSox4

    Receiving votes isn't the same as being ranked.

    BYU is ranked #24 in Sagarin, ahead of our little brother Utah at #25.

  • TallNSkinny43 Germantown, MD
    Oct. 14, 2013 12:54 p.m.

    Re: Johnny

    Its true that the Aggies aren't the same without Chuckie, but their remainder schedule is easy. They should win the rest of their games. I'm not saying they will, but they should. Wyoming might beat them, but the rest of the teams on the schedule are cake walks. Aggies should finish 3rd in MWC.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Oct. 14, 2013 12:54 p.m.

    USA Today re-ranking 1 - 125

    #32 BYU
    #37 Utah

    Unfortunately for U, our pathetic little brothers are still having trouble keeping up with their big brothers.

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 12:58 p.m.

    Right on, BoSox4! Right on!

    It's a good thing that YbU "fans" have Sagarin to cling to. It's the only minuscule edge they feel they have over Utah at this point.

    The fact of the matter is, Utah leads the way in every other major poll, as was stated by BoSox4. And Utah has beaten a bigger opponent than YbU this year, in a game that had bigger national implications. And Utah clearly owns the head-to-head against YbU. And surely owns the recruiting battle. And factually owns the undefeated seasons count, as well as the BCS bowl victories tally. And owns the active NFL player count. And Utah definitely has the best coach in the state, as well as the best QB in the state. Need I go on?

    Enjoy your Sagarin ranking. This week. While it lasts.

    Go Utes!

  • Stringer Bell Henderson, NV
    Oct. 14, 2013 1:02 p.m.

    Re: I'm trying to Be Smart

    "Premier program? Only about ten of those in the nation not quite there yet.
    Good program, respected program, improving program.
    Premier not even close, that belongs to Alabama, LSU, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma teams with national titles."

    Since when did Alabama, LSU, Oregon, et al move to the state of Utah? I'm no Chris B defender but at least get it right if you're going to criticize.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Oct. 14, 2013 1:02 p.m.

    Samurai Jake

    "The fact of the matter is, Utah leads the way in every other major poll..."

    Only in your dreams.

    Sagarin and USA Today are just as "major" as any of the polls in which the Utes are actually ranked. As much as our jealous little brothers would like to pretend otherwise, when the circumstances suit their narrative, receiving votes is not the same as being ranked.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 14, 2013 1:21 p.m.

    @Johnny Triumph:

    "BYU has had a tougher road early on this season, tougher competition early"

    Through six games each - SOS: Utah #9, byU #25.

    @Uteanymous:

    I see you can only use the Sagarin rating for your argument. Why don't you try to use the portion of the Sagarin rating that counts - the ELO_CHESS, which the BCS uses:

    Utah 27, byU 31

    I can see why you wouldn't want to use anything that the BCS uses, since byU and the BCS aren't acquainted.

    Nice cherry-picking, but fail as usual.

    Go Utes!!

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 1:23 p.m.

    Uteanymous:

    I half-expected some y "fan" to trumpet Sagarin's absurd ratings. Thanks for not disappointing.

    The absurdity is found in the ranking list itself.

    Utah's worst loss is to a team Sagarin's mysterious computer ranks 37th (the Utes other loss is to a team ranked 6th) and its best win is against a team the computer ranks 14th, while BYU's worst loss is to a team Sagarin ranks 82nd, and its best win is against a team the computers rank 29th. Yet, astoundingly, BYU is ranked directly ahead of a team it lost at home to!! And no, Sagarin won't reveal the details of his secret "formula."

    Are Jeff Benedict and Jeff Sagarin twin sons of different mothers--both closet BYU "fans"?

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 1:38 p.m.

    @phoenix:

    Nice try. Receiving zero votes makes YbU the better squad? Ha ha! Only in YbU dreams.

    Go Utes!

    P.S. - are you a Couger, Sun Devil, or Wildcat fan? I like the Utes' chances against both AZ teams this year. And if you're a couger, then I'm ENJOYING the Utes' dominance over YbU, which is fully guaranteed until the fall of 2016. That fact alone must be hard to swallow.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 14, 2013 2:47 p.m.

    @Stringer Bell
    I did not say they were in utah. There is no (premier) program in Utah. Go anywhere else and Utah and BYU are pretty much the same.
    Utah and BYU both have good football teams I am just saying in the National perspective apples and apples.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 14, 2013 2:50 p.m.

    @ Stringer Bell
    Chris B said the ONLY premier program in Utah. I was saying that there is nor PREMIER program in the state.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 3:47 p.m.

    After the USA Today poll did a re-ranking, Utah is now ranked above BYU in only the AP poll.

    That's the first time the Utes have been ranked above BYU in quite a while, I believe. And you gotta love the double standard by the Ute faithful; polls matter, unless BYU is ranked higher. Polls aren't perfect, but when one team is ranked much higher than another, it is indicative that the higher-ranked team is better.

    Example: USU was ranked much higher than BYU last year. USU and BYU were ranked much higher than Utah last year. Conclusion: USU was the best team in the state last year, followed by BYU with Utah coming in 3rd.

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 3:48 p.m.

    It's laughable that Utah fans like VegasUte quote Sagarin's SOS ratings as gospel, when other Utah fans like JohnInSLC pretend that they're completely biased in BYU's favor.

    Sagarin ranks BYU ahead of Utah in two of his three ranking methods, and he states emphatically that the method in which Utah is ranked higher is the least reliable method.

    What's your explanation for USA Today ranking BYU #32 and Utah #37, or CBS Sports ranking Utah #36 and BYU #37?

    Are they also biased is BYU's favor?

    Or could it be that the two teams are so close that there's no clear cut difference and that Utah fans are simply blowing smoke when they try to claim that Utah is seen nationally as the better team?

  • Mildred in Fillmore Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 4:37 p.m.

    BYU should have the highest grade because we are the best team in the State and have been for decades.

  • romeisn'tburning layton, ut
    Oct. 14, 2013 4:45 p.m.

    I don't understand why the topic of the best team in the state is being debated?
    It was already decided in head to head matchups. It's a moot topic.
    Utes 2-0.
    Kewgers 1-1.
    Aggies 0-2.
    Nothing more needs to be said, unless its a laughable excuse by a loser.

    With that said I wish nothing but the best for the Aggies, and nothing but losses for the Kewgers.

    4 in a row.
    9 of the last 12.
    14 of the last 21.

    Go Utes!!

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 4:53 p.m.

    @ TheCoach:

    Your analysis has no logic at all. Try using the USA Today Sagarin Rankings who use nothing except pure logic. As of today, their latest rankings still have BYU ranked one position better than Utah. According the most widely accepted ranking organization in the country, Utah is still chasing BYU who is objectively considered the better team. I couldn't agree more.

    @ Chris B:

    Read the paragraph above. It's been obvious for quite some time that you have a hard time accepting reality and always trying to skew facts to fit into your biases. But according the real experts, Utah is only a good team, not a great one yet. And certainly not the only premier team in the country... as you keep trying to convince everyone. You do keep proving a lot of smiles to readers. Keep up those hilarious assertions.

    @ MyPerspective:

    The facts all indicate you are completely wrong about BYU not being important to Ute fans. They stormed the field 3 different times after squeaking out a very narrow win last year... and wanted to tear down the goalposts. And they comment about BYU almost as much as they do about their own team. Funny!

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Oct. 14, 2013 4:57 p.m.

    romeisn'tburning

    I don't understand why the Utes are even playing out the season. UCLA already proved head-to-head that they're better than Utah, and the Utes can't even make it to the PAC championship game without being better than UCLA.

  • RepresentBlue West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 4:57 p.m.

    Fellow Cougar fans:

    Utah owns bragging rights this season! Trying to argue against this only makes you look stupid. They won the head to head match up for the 4th year in a row because our offense couldn't score in the red zone. They are the better team. It sucks to have to admit it, but is actually quite therapeutic. Just remember that not a single person who comments on these message boards has anything to do with determining which team is better than the other, so all the chest pounding and smack talking is nothing more than the anonymous rantings of people with the maturity level of a 15 year old.

  • Hawk Littleton, CO
    Oct. 14, 2013 5:03 p.m.

    Wow -- finally, a lucid moment my Mildred. And I STILL maintain that the "article" is about utah, with a few captioned photos of the others....

    And MyPerspective, what do you mean by my "preoccupation with the relationship between Utah and Colorado"? A mention of it in passing is considered a "preoccupation"? And it's YOUR conference that has declared them to be your new rival -- just suggesting that ute fans pay a little more attention to the Buffs and stop obsessing over the Cougars....

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 14, 2013 5:03 p.m.

    Riverton Cougar:

    "After the USA Today poll did a re-ranking, Utah is now ranked above BYU in only the AP poll."

    You forgot the USA Today Coaches Poll, the VegasInsiders.com top 25 (Utah is ranked #24), and Sagarin's ELO_CHESS ranking, the actual ranking that the BCS uses. Not to mention that Sagarin's SOS has Utah at #9 with the #1 Sagarin ranked team in the country still on the schedule, while he has byU at #25 with the #204 Sagarin ranked team in the country still on the schedule.

    It's so entertaining how the trollers cherry pick information is a desperate attempt to deflect the fact that they can't beat Utah. Their team can't beat us on the field, so they cling to anything for comfort.

    Hang on to the Sagarin week 8 rankings for as long as you can. Put it on a t-shirt and sell it. It may come in handy in the long-cold month of November when the best Provo can do is Idaho State!!

    Meanwhile, I look forward to yet another foe this Saturday from the Conference of Champions!

    Go Utes!! Go Cougars - the Texas variety!!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 14, 2013 5:11 p.m.

    @Whatsnu:

    You missed my point entirely - nothing new I know. My point is that anyone can cherry pick ANYTHING they want to try and prove a point. For every piece of information that they can find, someone else can find another to counter the point. So, in the end, who cares? None of it is gospel. The only irrefutable fact, gospel per se, is that Utah owned byU yet again this year and that drives byU "fans" nuts - so they try their best to prove that they are better than Utah. So, cherry pick away, it proves nothing. Prove it on the field, then you can make your point.

    Utah won.
    byU lost.
    Deal with it.
    Move on.

    Go Utes!! Onward and Upward beyond the minutia!!!

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 5:14 p.m.

    @ My Perspective:

    You sound like you are seriously jealous of BYU's national TV exposure. You say you saw only the BYU games that you "stumbled" across. Apparently, you must just plain stumble a lot... period, since no else in the nation has any trouble finding BYU games every weekend on TV. Only a real stumbler would have trouble doing so. Jealously is sometimes a blinder to reality.

    To set your other assertion straight... BYU has beaten a ranked (top 15) team this season... and much more convincingly than Utah's win over their ranked team. Enough so that we knocked our ranked team right out of the rankings. BTW: Texas 4-2 record is equal to Utah's and they just beat the #12 team in the country. Also, they are still leading The Big 12 conference. Where has utah's single conference win put them in their conference standings?

    Funniest comment of the day: After a single solitary conference win, Chris B says he just "loves his PAC12 affiliation".
    It will be interesting to see if that love holds strong after Utah starts playing some conference games on the road. They have yet to play even one this season.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 14, 2013 5:22 p.m.

    Meanwhile, after the glorious Utah victory over fifth raked Stanford:

    Nate Orchard won Athlon Sports National defensive player of the week. Prince Phillips won PAC 12 special teams player of the week. And, Utah got an ESPN four star commit from the great football powerhouse state of Florida.

    Thanks for those stories DN!!

    Go Utes!!

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 5:30 p.m.

    VegasUte

    Talk about cherry picking; it's obvious from anybody observing the order in which the Sagarin ratings are listed, that ELO and SOS are only secondary rankings.

    Sagarin's main RATING lists BYU #24 and Utah #25.

    The season is only at the halfway point and one 7-point head-to-head win doesn't prove anything other than Utah was better for one game out of 12 or 13.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 5:34 p.m.

    @ Samurai Jake:

    Your reasoning is obviously fogged by those dark crimson glasses. A loss never cancels out a win. Sometimes upsets just happen... especially with games played in monsoon weather conditions. But if you insist on your cancellation theory and that BYU's loss to Virginia cancels their Texas win, then by the exact same reasoning, Utah's loss to Oregon State cancels out their win over Stanford. And that would put Utah back in their conference basement again with no attributable conference wins.

    It's really tough when a person can't have things both ways when trying to use extreme biased statements, which not incidentally makes you lose all credibility with the rest of your statements.

    The USA Today Sagarin rankings are much less biased than either you or me. In fact, they are not biased at all. And they still have BYU ranked better than Utah with all of their objective quantifiable measurements. Sometimes in life reality just hurts.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 5:37 p.m.

    VegasUte,

    Excuse me, let me clarify: the AP is the only major poll. I already cited the USA Today's poll as being one that ranked BYU higher. As for the Sagarin poll, BYU is ranked higher.

    And if head to head is all that matters, then Eastern Washington is better than Oregon State. And in 2011, Colorado was better than Utah. But it's not all about head to head. Because Eastern Washington is not better than Oregon State, nor was Colorado better than Utah in 2011.

  • romeisn'tburning layton, ut
    Oct. 14, 2013 5:38 p.m.

    Phoenix,

    I guess it would be hard for people that have little to no understanding in college sports to wrap their heads around why the season is even played at all, so I'll explain it to you in layman's term. Hopefully, you can follow so simple ideas.

    First of all, I'd like to address a lie you have accepted as truth. It is not true that UCLA is automatically going to represent the south division in the PAC12 championship game, but that is besides the point.

    To answer your question, the reason the Utes are playing out the season is to win games. Which is the point of all team that compete. I hope this clears up your confusion, if not I'll be waiting for another sarcastic response from a person commenting on a sports article that doesn't understand sports.


    Go Utes!

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 5:57 p.m.

    @ VegasUte:

    You are starting to sound just like a troll. Your cherry-picking proves nothing, either. There is one fact we can agree on. Utah was barely the better team on September 21st... and never "owned" BYU (or USU) with ultra slim victories this season. Factually, both BYU and USU had better statistics in both of those games. Trick plays and penalties unquestionably altered the outcomes of both games.

    But is Utah still the better team? Most experts (as opposed to both you and me who are biased) currently have BYU ranked as the better team. And they do it by all quantitative measurable indisputable criteria. The USA Today's Sagarin rankings verify it with pure statistical analysis, and with SOS already factored in... no cherry-picking.
    Literally all other national rating services have BYU and Utah ranked neck and neck... with neither owning the other.

    Deal with it.
    Move on.

    P.S. With a little more continued luck this season, Utah might even finish with their first winning record since 2011.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 6:29 p.m.

    @ Represent Blue:

    You are NOT a fellow BYU fan. You are obviously a Ute fan masquerading as a Cougar fan... and nothing more. No one is disputing the fact that Utah was the better team on September 21st. (Who are you accusing of doing any chest pounding since then?) Utah does own bragging rights to that particular game... but nothing more. They certainly don't "own" BYU (or USU) with their ultra-slim and statistically lacking victories.

    But is Utah still the better team? Most national college football rating services, who factor in all possible quantitative criteria, currently have BYU ranked ahead of Utah. Are you trying to assert that they are looking "stupid" for using their unbiased rankings? There is nothing wrong with acknowledging those rankings. Real BYU fans take a bit of pride in them (as should they), and given the fact they are on a 3 game (and counting) win streak, we are getting better with each passing week. It's honestly questionable whether Utah would beat BYU again if they now had a rematch.

    You are not fooling anyone by verbally saying you Represent Blue or any other real BYU fans. You don't.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 14, 2013 6:36 p.m.

    Riverton Cougar:

    The USA Today Coaches Poll is different than the USA today's rankings. The coaches VOTE in the the coaches poll. The USA today ranking is a ranking system devised by USA today. They are completely different. Utah received votes in the USA Today Coaches Poll, as they did in the AP poll. byU received no votes by either the AP writers or by the Coaches in the USA Today Coaches Poll.

    Glad to have cleared that up for you. Sorry I let facts get in the way of a good argument for you!

    Oh, and BTW, Eastern Washington has not beaten Oregon State four straight years. So, ya, head-to-head with byU does matter more than your numbers! All the numbers you pull up mean squaddush compared to 4-0.

    @Solomon Levi:

    It is ALL cherry picking, that's my point. It proves nothing either way. The only proof is on the field. So, argue all you want that byU is better - we have four straight wins as proof that Utah is better.

    Win on the field and respect will be given. See RepresetnBlue above!

    Go Utes!! Proving it on the field!

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 6:56 p.m.

    "It's honestly questionable whether Utah would beat BYU again if they now had a rematch."

    It's fun to have Tators back spouting the party line out of Cosmotown--something jealous y "fans" are now saying EVERY year!

  • Sparkley Briefs New York, NY
    Oct. 14, 2013 8:26 p.m.

    "It's honestly questionable whether Utah would beat BYU again if they now had a rematch."

    Based on the results of the game already played and the Utes play in their last two games, it is honestly questionable that anyone who thinks that BYU is the better team has watched ANY college football this year. I get it BYU fan, you love your team and want them to be the best, but isn't this discussion getting embarassing?

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 9:55 p.m.

    "And I STILL maintain that the "article" is about utah"

    Hawk:

    We're not surprised.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 10:21 p.m.

    VegasUte

    "The only proof is on the field."

    So Utah is better than Stanford?

    I defy any Utah fan to come up with a reasonable explanation to explain why #13 Stanford isn't still considered better than unranked Utah, despite Utah's head-to-head win.

    btw, each season is judged independently, and in 5 of the last 8 seasons, BYU has finished with a better record AND higher ranking than Utah.

    How the two teams finish this season is still to be determined. Just as Stanford could easily finish the season ranked in the Top 25, and Utah not, BYU could easily finish the season with a better record and higher ranking than Utah.

    Despite the shrill denials coming from the hill, better record and higher ranking trumps head-to-head results for one game.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Oct. 14, 2013 10:25 p.m.

    Ok, VegasUte, answer this:

    How many years in a row has Utah finished the season ranked higher than BYU? As people have pointed out earlier, final rankings is the best indicator for best teams in the nation. A higher ranked team is better than a lower ranked team. I realize that the polls are not perfect, and there are often disputes over the accuracy of the polls, but people rarely dispute whether or not a team is better than another team ranked 10 or more spots higher.

    The bottom line is that although Utah has consistently beat BYU on the field the past 4 years, they have failed to prove to the nation that they were truly the better team. They were more consistent than BYU during the same 60-minute time period of gameplay on a Saturday in September, but overall throughout the whole season they were not as consistent.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 14, 2013 10:40 p.m.

    Sagarin is just ONE data point.

    The full size (aka all rankings) show that:

    Utah #23: Mean 27.5, Median 23.0, Std Dev 8.47
    BYU #26: 28.3, 26.0, 10.0

    More importantly, if you ask Kevin Van Noy he'll tell you that the better team is Utah.

    @Solomon Levi

    News flash, unlike Stanford, BYU doesn't play in the same league. BYU has been OWNED by Utah, sooner you accept that fact the easier you'll sleep at night.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Oct. 14, 2013 10:48 p.m.

    Riverton Cougar

    "How many years in a row has Utah finished the season ranked higher than BYU?"

    NEVER, during the Bronco/Kyle era.

    Year AP/Coaches/Sagarin Team Record

    2005 ur/ur/#55 BYU(6-6) < ur/ur/#51 Utah(7-5)
    2006 #16/#15/#19 BYU(11-2) > ur/ur/#54 Utah(8-5)
    2007 #14/#15/#17 BYU(11-2) > ur/ur/#34 Utah(9-4)
    2008 #25/#21/#32 BYU(10-3) < #2/#4/#5 Utah(13-0)
    2009 #12/#12/#15 BYU(11-2) > #18/#18/#24 Utah(10-3)
    2010 ur/ur/#45 BYU(7-6) < ur/#23/#26 Utah(10-3)
    2011 #26/#25/#34 BYU(10-3) > ur/ur/#39 Utah(8-5)
    2012 ur/ur/#26 BYU(8-4) > ur/ur/#61 Utah(5-7)
    2013 ur/ur/#24 BYU(4-2) > ur/ur/#25 Utah(4-2)

    In 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011 and 2012 BYU finished with a BETTER record and HIGHER ranking than Utah.

    In 2005, 2008 and 2010 Utah finished with a BETTER record and HIGHER ranking than BYU.

    In 2013, unranked/#24 BYU(4-2) and unranked/#25 Utah(4-2) are virtually tied - final results still TBD.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Oct. 14, 2013 11:02 p.m.

    @Uteology

    News flash; it doesn't matter what league teams play in; higher ranking is still higher ranking.

    Utah's narrow 1-, 3- and 7-point wins in 3 of the last 4 is proof that U don't "own" anything.

    Even more proof of lack of "ownership" is 14 of the last 17 games having been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing minutes or in overtime.

    Winning the head-to-head battle, while losing the overall record and ranking war, doesn't prove anything.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 14, 2013 11:18 p.m.

    @Snack PAC

    When playing a similar schedule the better team was:
    Utah: 2005, 2008, 2010
    BYU: 2006, 2007, 2009

    When playing a vastly different schedule, the difference of plus 2 and plus 3 is ONLY because:

    2011: Utah 8-5 vs BYU 10-3 (Idaho 2-10, NMS 4-9, CFU 5-7, SJS 5-7, Hawaii 6-7)
    2012: Utah 5-7 vs BYU 8-5 (Weber 1-11, Idaho 1-11, NMS 1-11, Hawaii 3-9)

    Utah is 8-1 vs mid-major teams since joining the PAC-12.
    Bronco is 15-14 vs BCS teams.

  • Sparkley Briefs New York, NY
    Oct. 15, 2013 6:27 a.m.

    You ever date a girl who just could never admit that she was wrong? She would argue and whine and throw out all kinds of baseless "proof" to support her weak arguments until you couldn't stand her anymore and just quit paying attention all together. Congratulations to the select BYU fans on this thread - you have achieved whining girl who doesn't get a second date status! Wear that badge with pride and tell us once again how the team that shut your offense down in a win and just knocked off one of the best teams in the country is somehow not as good as the team that lost to Virginia.

  • BeSmart Cheyenne, WY
    Oct. 15, 2013 8:15 a.m.

    What is Whit's Record against BCS teams?
    When are people going to realize both schools have really good teams?
    I think Utah won a great game BYU beat a decent team.
    Just be happy with where your teams are at.
    My guess is both teams have at least two more losses but I could be wrong
    Go Utah Schools

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Oct. 15, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    "Despite all of your spin, BYU is still ranked higher:

    #24 BYU(4-2) #25 SOS > #25 Utah(4-2) #9 SOS

    Dealt with..."

    Utah won the head to head game so the head to head debate isn't a good one to continue.

    That said, I've read many of the Ute fans claiming Stanford is a better program than the University of Texas. That is laughable.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 10:08 a.m.

    Uteology

    LOL at your whiny "when playing a similar schedule" excuse making.

    Sagarin already factors SOS into his ratings, so sorry; no double dipping on SOS just because U still finished behind BYU. Sagarin's ratings consider little things like Utah LOST to 10-loss Colorado in 2011, and barely beat 11-loss Colorado in 2012.

    Year/Sagarin Rating/Team/Record/SOS

    2011 #34 BYU(10-3) #90 > #39 Utah(8-5) #49
    2012 #26 BYU(8-5) #63 > #61 Utah(5-7) #41
    2013 #24 BYU(4-2) #25 > #25 Utah(4-2) #9

  • Samurai Jake Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 10:10 a.m.

    @Tators:

    "Most experts (as opposed to both you and me who are biased) currently have BYU ranked as the better team. And they do it by all quantitative measurable indisputable criteria. The USA Today's Sagarin rankings verify it with pure statistical analysis, and with SOS already factored in... no cherry-picking."

    "Indisputable criteria?" Please. "Pure statistical analysis?" Give me a break.
    Tators, you stretch more in your whining arguments than any other BYU poster besides Duckhunter. Quit trying so hard, dude! Your team has been getting owned by my Utes for the past decade. That is purely indisputable. Get over it! Go Conference of Champion Utes!

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Oct. 15, 2013 10:53 a.m.

    Sparkley Briefs

    Final records and rankings will determine which team was better overall.

    Anyone who argues differently is simply blowing smoke.

    If Utah were to miraculously run the table, win the PAC 12, get invited to the BCS championship, and win the national championship, would Utah fans really still say that Oregon State and UCLA were better than Utah because the Beavers and Bruins beat the Utes head-to-head?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 15, 2013 11:48 a.m.

    @SportsFan

    So what? In season one in the Big 12 TCU finished 7-6.

    Are you also going to claim that Sagarin #26 BYU is a better team than #32 TCU? If so, you might want to concentrate on staying within two scores of TCU before making such a claim.

    TCU lost 4 games in 4 years playing your schedule, in the Big 12 they already have lost 9 games.

    Both Utah and TCU dominated BYU, they both dominated the MWC, they both have struggled in tougher leagues.

    BYU is not a better team, in the Big 12 and PAC-12 they would finish behind the real power programs of the old MWC, TCU and Utah.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 12:10 p.m.

    Uteology

    "Are you also going to claim that Sagarin #26 BYU is a better team than #32 TCU?"

    Who knows whether BYU could have beaten TCU in 2012? Could U have beaten TCU in 2012?

    BYU only lost at Notre Dame by 3 points in 2012 and BYU destroyed Texas in 2013.

    One thing is certain, unlike Utah, BYU wouldn't have lost to Colorado in 2011. BYU hasn't lost to a 10-loss team in almost 30 years. Kyle has lost to two of them since 2007.

    btw, BYU won TWO MWC championships. Utah only won ONE. So much for Utah "dominating" the MWC.

  • Sparkley Briefs New York, NY
    Oct. 15, 2013 1:04 p.m.

    Talkinsports,

    Go back and watch the BYU-Utah game. At what point did you think that BYU was the better team? That was the one game all year when both teams were on the field together and one team thoroughly outplayed the other. The scoreboard tells me that Utah is better and the eyeball test is just as conclusive. Utah was neck and neck with OSU, UCLA, and Stanford for 4 quarters. Those games all could have gone either way. BYU was comprehensively whipped on by Utah and did not threaten, even with the late score to pull to within 7. Bolstering your record with 5 cupcakes does not the better team make.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 15, 2013 1:20 p.m.

    @LonestarRunner

    No, Utah was horrible team in 2012 we wouldn't have beat TCU but we were good enough to beat your team. TCU was the better team, by one win last year over Utah.

    FYI 6-7 Purdue and 6-7 Pitt also lost by 3 at Notre Dame, is that an some sort of an accomplishment?

    Destroyed Texas? But you also lost to 2-4 Virginia, the same team whose only other win is over a D2 team.

    In 2011 Utah lost 14-17 to 3-10 Colorado, in 2010 BYU got owned 16-31 by 4-8 Utah State.

    Utah won 4 MWC titles just like BYU... the difference we accomplished your Quest TWICE.

    Hey, look BYU is decent mid-major team but Cougar Nation needs to face the fact that BYU can't compete with Utah and TCU. If they have struggled in tougher leagues then BYU would be worse off.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 15, 2013 1:34 p.m.

    @BeSmart - thank you for your level-headed, intelligent post.

    Utah had a program defining win last week, just like byU had when they beat Miami at home some decades ago. byU had a solid win last week. byU "fan" should be happy with their own win rather than trying to cherry pick and spin any data he/she can find to try to make themselves look better. What will he/she do next week when Utah beats Arizona, byU beats Houston and Sagarin moves Utah ahead of byU? What straws will be grasped at then?

    Move on to Houston and show your allegiance to your team for that game. Congratulate your team for their solid win and move on. Quit obsessing about Utah - you lost four straight and you can't do anything about it for three more years. Just deal with it.

    Go Utes!

    Onward and Upward!

    On to Arizona!!

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 2:28 p.m.

    Sparkley Briefs

    "Go back and watch the BYU-Utah game. At what point did you think that BYU was the better team?"

    Total Yards
    BYU 443
    Utah 402

    Rushing Yards
    BYU 183
    Utah 129

    Passing Yards
    BYU 260
    Utah 283

    1st Downs
    BYU 24
    Utah 16

    3rd Down Conversions
    BYU 5-21
    Utah 1-14

    BYU was better in nearly every category except final score. With only slightly better execution in the blue zone, BYU wins the game. Even so, the game wasn't decided until the final play.

    With Taysom's improved passing since the Utah game, the Cougars would beat the Utes in a rematch.

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 2:50 p.m.

    Uteology

    "Utah is 8-1 vs mid-major teams since joining the PAC-12.
    Bronco is 15-14 vs BCS teams."

    What a silly comparison.

    During the Bronco/Kyle era, Bronco's record versus BCS teams is nearly identical to Kyle's.

    Bronco 15-14 (52%)
    Kyle 21-18 (54%)

    But, Bronco's record versus 10+ loss teams is MUCH better.

    Bronco 12-0 (100%)
    Kyle 10-2 (83%)

    And, Bronco's Top 25 Finishes dwarf Kyle's.

    AP Top 25
    Bronco 4
    Kyle 2

    Top 15
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 1

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 3:38 p.m.

    Still a long way to go.

    BYU 4-2 versus FBS teams
    Utah 3-2 versus FBS teams.

    BYU with a big win over Texas.
    Utah with a narrow win over Stanford.

    It remains to be seen which teams will be ranked at the end of the season, and how high.

  • Sparkley Briefs New York, NY
    Oct. 15, 2013 4:49 p.m.

    Lonestar,

    I ask you - at what point in that game did BYU look like they were not going to lose? Utah was never in trouble the whole game. Did you think the Y was going to complete a desperation hail mary and save the day? As for claiming that the Y would win a rematch, go ask Stanford how bad the Utes got since dominating in Provo. Woulda, coulda, shoulda...spin, spin, spin!

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 5:10 p.m.

    "the Cougars would beat the Utes in a rematch"

    Lonestar:

    Don't you cougar fans get tired of saying that . . . again . . . and again . . . year after year?

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    Oct. 15, 2013 5:59 p.m.

    Lonestar

    Don't kid yourself; Utah fans were still holding their breath on the last play of the game knowing that BYU has ripped their hearts out many times before.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 15, 2013 10:51 p.m.

    Ufan
    Salt Lake City, UT

    Uteology

    "Utah is 8-1 vs mid-major teams since joining the PAC-12.
    Bronco is 15-14 vs BCS teams."

    What a silly comparison.

    During the Bronco/Kyle era, Bronco's record versus BCS teams is nearly identical to Kyle's.

    -----------

    When Utah and TCU were in the MWC they had the highest two winning percentages against BCS teams. Kyle was 13-5 (72%) vs BCS teams before joining the PAC-12.

    That has changed for both teams playing a week-in-week-out BCS schedule. It takes time to build BCS talent and depth.

    Something I don't expect a BYU fan to understand, so it's okay if you don't get it.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Oct. 15, 2013 11:26 p.m.

    Uteology

    When BYU, Utah, and TCU were in the MWC,

    TCU won 4 conference championships, BYU won 2 conference championships, Utah won 1.

    TCU was ranked in the AP Top 25 six times, BYU was ranked four times, Utah was ranked twice.

    Of course we wouldn't expect a Utah fan to understand what winning conference championships and being ranked is all about, since you've accomplished so few of either during the last 50 years.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Oct. 16, 2013 10:05 a.m.

    I would give both Utah and BYU a B+

    I find it amusing that BYU fans flock to these boards and try to justify there existence by continuely comparing them self to Utah. Very seldom is it the other way around. I guess envy and jealousy runs rampid for BYU fans. Too funny!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Oct. 16, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    @Levi

    I wasn't holding my breath. I knew BYU can't beat Utah; it's almost a mental thing at this point. No smiling from ear to ear as Utah had yet beat the little guys from down south again. I was wondering what would be the excuses thoug,h and how BYU fans would spin the loss?

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    Oct. 16, 2013 6:33 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "I find it amusing that BYU fans flock to these boards and try to justify there existence by continuely comparing them self to Utah. Very seldom is it the other way around."

    LOL at the crimson blinders you wear.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2013 4:32 p.m.

    @Just the FAX

    Of course we wouldn't expect a Utah fan to understand what winning conference championships and being ranked is all about, since you've accomplished so few of either during the last 50 years.

    --------

    Oh we now what it takes, see 2004 and 2008.

    Apparently you guys don't. With 2 BCS bowls yet it was BYU fans that "danced in the streets, they hugged perfect strangers, they lit off fireworks, and in general, they celebrated and celebrated and celebrated" (a 1-0 Quest).

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 18, 2013 9:32 a.m.

    Uteology

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 17
    Utah 5

    Call us when U match BYU's current 17; at your current rate of 1 every 13 years, that'll be about 150 years from now.

    WAC/MWC Championships
    BYU 23
    Utah 6

    Only six conference championships for Utah in the last half century, pathetic.

    As Just the Fax said:

    "we wouldn't expect a Utah fan to understand what winning conference championships and being ranked is all about"

    since it's happened so seldom in the last half century.