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Letter: Under the bus

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  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Oct. 9, 2013 4:57 a.m.

    Amen!

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 6:52 a.m.

    Bravo, Jennica. Bravo!

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 7:38 a.m.

    And he's laughing at us all, while he's doing it.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 7:45 a.m.

    Keep it up Mike; millions are with you and most Utahns (two thirds), in that recent Dan Jones poll, do NOT disapprove of you.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 8:03 a.m.

    So, if he's saying; jump, jump, who can afford to jump ship and leave the country.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 8:51 a.m.

    The train heading for the cliff has Ted Cruz as its engineer and Mike Lee as its conductor. Neither one is interested in pulling the brake lever.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Oct. 9, 2013 9:25 a.m.

    The real enemy here is the lawyer mentality on both sides. There's no way you're going to let the other side win. Lee, Reid, Cruz, Obama -- they're all trained advocates, but they do not have the reflex to find solutions. Their reflex is to win at any cost.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 10:34 a.m.

    Seditious conspiracy (18 U.S.C. § 2384) is a crime under United States law. It is stated as follows:

    “ If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both."

    And this man expects to be the elder to save us. Something is askew in that man's mind.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 10:41 a.m.

    Irony is right... The adversarial relationship in Washington is the problem.

    Candidate Obama promise he would CHANGE Washington? Promised it wouldn't be politics-as-usual, more compromise, and less divided.

    Has done that? Has he even TRIED to do that?

    Can anyone name ONE THING that Obama has done to TRY to foster biparisansip and compromise in Washington?

    Was his first act (locking all Republicans out of the room when designing ObamaCare) an effort to increase bipartisanship? If he thinks THAT's going to make politicians in Washington cooperate MORE... I have to question his leadership ability. Anybody who would do that and expect it to DECREASE partisanship or make Washington a more cooperative place... is not playing with a full deck. But I think Obama knew exactly what he was doing... and it had NOTHING to do with decreasing partisanship in Washington.

    He never intended to change Washington OR he didn't know how to do it. Just look at the results! Washington is MORE divided! Republicans are half of the problem, but locking Republicans out and ramming legislation down without a SINGLE republican vote... was not a good start IF he wanted Unity.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 10:47 a.m.

    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
    Mr Lee's actions have done nothing to insure Tranquility, a point more prominent to the Founders than defense. Is this just another example of picking the parts he agrees with or is this a delusion that would have him swoop in to save us after he took it to the brink?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 10:59 a.m.

    @Irony Guy
    If Obama gives anything it'll set a precedent (arguably 2011 did) where threatening default of the nation is a valid bargaining position when it shouldn't be.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 12:03 p.m.

    atl134 makes an excellent point. Giving in to the House's demands under duress of the current shutdown and under threat of the impending debt ceiling default would be like opening Pandora's Box.

    Maybe to illustrate that point to the House, essentially stating, "So, you want to enter the Brave New World of 'governance by extortion'? Well, two can play at that game", the Senate should take the whatever the current House funding bill is (with its odious anti-ACA rider *du jour* attached), attach a Senate rider requiring universal background checks on ALL firearm sales, pass the amended bill on the Senate floor, and send it back to the House for conference, with the message that the final bill HAS to include the background check rider as written, or it will be defeated in the Senate or vetoed . . .

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Oct. 9, 2013 12:22 p.m.

    Since we are talking train wrecks, let see what some of the Democrats who helped form the ACA have to say about it:

    In April of this year Senator Max Baucus was asked about the ACA and what he could see coming. His response was "I just see a huge train wreck coming down".

    In May of this year Senator Harry Reid "said he agreed with Baucus' comment."

    Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), "echoed these concerns when he noted that the law would increase premiums for the young.

    These aren't problems of poor implementation; they're problems of implementation, period. The last few weeks have yielded a treasure trove of evidence confirming criticism (which the Train Wreck Club now shares) that the Affordable Care Act has (a) not had the results that were promised and (b) that it may in fact have worsened health care in America."

    Other Democrat senators have identified the train wreck that is the ACA. Some of them include Senator Jeanne Shaheen, Senator Tom Harkin, and Senator Ben Cardin.

    If they could see a train wreck coming 6 months ago. The question is why are they allowing this to happen?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 2:12 p.m.

    Redshirt, may we see some documentation of those supposed "quotations?"

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 2:26 p.m.

    The ACA is a train wreck with or without Republican opposition.

    I read an article today that said that 99% of people trying to sing up have run into a wall. Republicans didn't do that. Inept government not being able to setup a decent web site did that.

    If they can't even setup a decent web site that's scalable and fault tolerant... why would we trust them to run our healthcare?

    I realize they aren't completely running our healthcare today... but that's what some people want. I'm just looking ahead to the future. If THIS little change is such a train wreck... and Medicare and Medicaid are full of fraud and documented mis-management, and Social Security is a train headed to the cliff of insolvency... how is the Government doing to run the whole nation's healthcare without it becoming an even WORSE train wreck than it already is??

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 2:29 p.m.

    He made his place in history infamously.

  • RFLASH Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 3:07 p.m.

    Oh, but he will save himself, won't he! It is absurd! He said that he would oppose Obama on everything and that is what he does, no matter what! Now, can anyone tell me of something he has done to better our country? Why do people vote for somebody who does such absurd things?

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 3:33 p.m.

    ugottabkidn: Nice definition of sedition and the need for "tranquility".

    For those with partisan eyes, they only see the faults in their opponents (Mike Lee) and none in their guys (Obama, Reid, Polosi, etc.).

    You could just as easily say those quotes apply directly to President Obama. He and his Attorney General have constantly sought "...to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States..." when it comes to immigration laws, voting intimidation laws, DOMA, etc. I guess the definition only applies to laws you support.

    I can't decide who is trying the hardest to divide the nation and eliminate any tranquility - President Obama or Harry Reid. "My way or the highway" is not the "hope and change" we wanted in our government leaders.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Oct. 9, 2013 3:46 p.m.

    To "one old man" since you can't just google them yourself.

    See "Baucus warns of 'huge train wreck' enacting ObamaCare provisions" in The Hill for the Senator Max Baucus quote.

    See the USA Today article "The ObamaCare train wreck: Column" that uses the Baucus quote and has the Harry Reid quote, along with some interesting information that other Democrat Senators have offered regarding the ACA.

    So again, why let the train wreck occur when even the architects of the bill see it as a failure?

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 3:57 p.m.

    Time for a reality check. All the revenue the federal government takes in now can't pay the social security, unemployment, and medicare that we pay today. We have to borrow to even cover that. Then there is national defense and all the other programs we are borrowing to cover, on top of the entitlement social programs.

    If the social programs we have already implemented are eating up more than the revenue, how can it be sensible to add another social program like the ACA?

    It isn't sensible. That is why the only sensible approach is to oppose it like the country's life depends on it, because it does.

  • Mkithpen Sandy, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    What our friends who want a truce in Washington don't understand is that the Obama administration has run rough shot over the Constitution at every turn in the road. He is not a King. The exceptions that they have given to their supporters, Donor Corporations, Unions (and Jimmy Hoffa now wants out) and others are unconstitutional unless all Americans are given the same extra year to determine what is the best Health Care alternative for them. At some point you have to say enough on an issue that affects all American equally (Congress and the Executive Branch obviously is an exception by Presidential Order). Our debt of $17 trillion is greater than our GDP - can you spend more in your checking account than your balance will allow? No, so why should the government? We have three equal branches of government to provide checks and balances, before, during and after laws are passed to assure ongoing equality. Get with it people, Mike Lee is doing his job and we should be proud. Where is Hatch and his clout? He does nothing for the US or Utah. Time for a mid-term change!

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 8:12 a.m.

    But the point should be, what CAN stop the train from wreaking? Or does anyone care.

  • Mkithpen Sandy, UT
    Oct. 10, 2013 5:19 p.m.

    Laws can be changed and or canceled after enacted. We frequently ament or change laws to better support the constitution and/or adapt for economic, environmental and world conditions that can negatively affect the intended outcome of the law. The problem with ACA is that no one including our elected officials were given an opportunity to review the bill as it was being presented so that these details that are being fought over now could have been worked out in advance or in reality the bill would have likely not passed due to the infringement of many of our Constitution protections to privacy and commerce that have been totally ignored. Keep going Senators Lee, Cruz and Paul. Don't forget what Speaker Nancy said, 'you have to pass it to see what's in it". Do you buy a car with our reading the contract? No and this is a much bigger life changing contract for every single American going forward. It's worth the scrutiny. Better late than never.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 11, 2013 8:51 a.m.

    tenx,
    There's a reason they use a "train" in this analogy. It's because a train can't turn (like this legislation it's going to go where it's going to go regardless). Trains and legislation have to go where the tracks lead whether we like it or not, you can't just see a problem ahead and turn to miss it.

    And like a train... it can't be stopped (at least not wherever or whenever you want it to stop). In other words... what's going to happen is going to happen (whether it's terrible or not). if you are stuck in it's way... there's probably nothing you or the driver (the government) can do to stop the terrible result that's coming.

    That's why the illustration uses a "Train Wreck", not a car wreck (which can be navigated to avoided the collision ahead if either party sees what's coming in time).

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2013 5:31 p.m.

    The Heritage Foundation is having a big golf outing in Oregon. Senator Lee can Caddy for Dement.