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Gov. Herbert: Can't separate fight over Obamacare from shutdown negotiations

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  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    "...the GOP governor also refused to rule out tying the Republican efforts in Congress against the law to the upcoming debate over raising the nation's debt ceiling." A default would lead to reduction of or ending of social security.

    A piece of advice to Governor Herbert: don't even think it!

  • JD Jones Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 12:31 p.m.

    What happened to Republicans respect for the rule of law? ACA is now law, so whether or not you agree with you it, if you shut down the government and hint that you won't raise the debt ceiling unless you get your way, you can't say you also respect the rule of law.

    Anyone who blames Obama and Democrats on the shutdown is not thinking clearly, and doesn't have much in the way of morals. If Republicans don't agree to raise the debt ceiling because they don't get their way, the fault rests squarely on Republicans. If someone came to your house and said, "if you don't let me destroy your polluting truck, I will kill your dog", who would deserves most of the blame? The person making the threat or the person or the dog owner? Who would be charged for a crime? Republican Congressmen might be acting on their conscience, but it's a very warped conscience, and its very much grounded in ego, for they want to be heros for their ignorant tea party voters.

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    Oct. 3, 2013 12:31 p.m.

    The Governor is right. Obamacare was rammed down the GOPs throat and if the Democrats are going to play the political game that way than they will have a backlash they will have to deal with later. If the dems don't see it coming there will come a time when the tea party becomes politically adept enough to win the races necessary to swing the pendulum back the other way. And Democrats will have burned the bridges necessary to stop what may come.

  • Kings Court Alpine, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 12:47 p.m.

    I hope the Tea Party keeps it shut down as long as possible, because that will also mean the end of the Tea Party. The end is in sight. Hurray!

  • UtahCentrist Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 1:16 p.m.

    "Obamacare was rammed down the GOPs throat"

    The ACA was passed by both houses of congress, signed by the president & upheld by the SCOTUS. That's the process as laid down in the constitution by the founding fathers, which conservatives claim to revere. Only as long as it is convenient, apparently.

    Why is it that so many Republicans believe that if they don't agree with the results of a bill, they get to disregard it and throw wrenchs into the proceedings of government? Where is it written in the constitution that one party has to be 100% placated, even if it goes against the legislative process? Where does this sense of entitlement come from that, regardless of the results of elections and the normal operations of our country, that their opinion is the only one that truly matters?

    Want to get your way with laws? Win elections, gain majorities and pass bills using the mechanisms of government. Holding hostages, be it a person or a nation, is what bullies do when they can't get their way through normal acceptable means.

    The Tea-Party GOP are acting like spoiled children, not rational stewards of our nation.

  • The Skeptical Chymist SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 1:17 p.m.

    Go ahead, tea party members. Throw your little whiny hissy fit. When you're done, the country will know you for what you are: bullies who will take the whole country hostage to get your way.

    The ACA was legally enacted into law, it was verified to be constitutional by the Supreme Court, Obama was re-elected in what was in large part a referendum on this law, and the Senate was retained by the Democrats, again in affirmation of this law.

    These tea party folks are essentially saying: "Nice economy you got there. Wouldn't it be a shame if something happened to it. You know I can protect it for a price..."

    The Democrats (Obama included) are exactly right to tell them where they can go.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 1:23 p.m.

    "Let's eliminate the burr under the saddle."

    By ensuring that ALL Americans have health care? I'm with that, but I don't think that's what Herbie meant.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 1:40 p.m.

    "[R}respect for the rule of law?"
    What about Obama's illegal granting of exemptions and delays to his cronies, contrary to the existing law?

    The Republican House is acting in full accordance with the Constitution with regard to their power of the purse, and even though a program is enacted in one year, that does not commit future Congresses to funding it, or prevent them from prohibiting expenditures to carry out functions which exist in law. (Example- Congress has explicitly prohibited the DOJ from acting on federal expungement requests to restore gun rights for nearly 20 years.

    The House passed numerous bills authorizing full funding of individual departments, and even everything but Obamacare. Harry Reid's petulant rejection of these efforts to fund government operations make it a DEMOCRAT shut down, no matter what the biased media or Democrats tell you.

    The damage done by allowing Obamacare to be implemented far exceeds any harm from a temporary suspension of non-essential federal government functions.

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 1:41 p.m.

    Governor, please: we will have decades to amend this law, why hyperventilate over it this week? It is law. And people may or may not sign up for it. There is a lack of leadership in Utah if you are paying 13 million to the losing bidder for a state contract and nobody knows about it, including yourself.

  • Conner Johnson
    Oct. 3, 2013 1:45 p.m.

    Gov. Herbert could have been one of the few state leaders that accepted the ACA, and given everyone in Utah the opportunity to have Health Care. Now well be thanking the Federal Government for implementing the law, not the governor. Thanks for nothing, yet again, Gary!

  • David Centerville, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    Democratic claims that Obamacare is law and is not to be revisited is interesting, as Obama has changed the law unilaterally a number of times since it was passed. If the law is not to be revisited, then why is it being modified so often by Obama and the Democrats.

    I say revisit the law! Rewrite what isn't working, isn't wise, and isn't good. Keep the good parts of the ACA.

    But Obama, Reid and the Democrats who refuse to go into conference over budget discrepancies are simply bullying Americans. Engaging in compromise through conference between the House and Senate occurs every year! Why not now? Because Democrats want to shut down the government and try to blame it on Republicans.

    Its time for adults to lead in DC. Send the children to timeout. We should start with Obama and Reid.

  • ronnie sandy, utah
    Oct. 3, 2013 2:23 p.m.

    "If people are that passionate about a piece of legislation they're willing to go to that length, we ought to look at the legislation," Where has the Governor been? The House does not practice the art of legislation nor do they care. The House passed about 40 bills to eliminate the ACA but it went no where because they do not have the votes to get it passed in the Senate, let alone override a presidential veto. By the way, during the previous 40 bills never once did the House try to negotiate a change or propose delays or other modifications to the law...and now they are complaining that no one is willing to play ball with them. They are the height of hypocrissy.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 2:23 p.m.

    Gotta try to keep the Tea Party happy, eh? Governor Herbert, you may succeed in that goal, but what about the majority of sane Utahns who are not drinkers of tea?

  • Informed Voter South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 2:25 p.m.

    JD Jones: Glad to see you believe in the rule of law. Your President does not...he unilaterally ignores or amends parts of Obamacare to suit himself and his friends. He has no authority to change the Obamacare law! Can't you see that? He and Holder also refuse to enforce other laws they do not like....so don't tell me we should obey the obamacare law, when obama himself doesn't.

    Furthermore, the Constitution provides for the House of Representatives to authorize spending. It is within the law to revise what is spent and/or restructure the debt spending. This is what government budgets are meant to do. BTW, Reid has not allowed the Senate to propose a budget for several years. How about his violation of law by refusing to do so? Spending called for by obamacare is way too much and therefore the House should not go along with this crazy addiction to spending and taking on more debt.

  • Rainman Syracuse, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 2:51 p.m.

    I blame them all! I agree that what the Republicans are doing is stupid but the Democrats shoved this law down all our throats when they had control of the house and senate. If they would have negotiated a bi-partisan deal back then, the Republicans would have had some skin in the game and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

  • Reasonable Person Layton, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 3:20 p.m.

    Exemptions?

    ANYONE who already has health insurance is "exempted" from buying insurance under the Affordable Care Act!
    How (I'll used the nice word) "uninformed" do you have to be, to not figure that out for yourself.

  • Most Truthful and Patriotic Layton, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 3:23 p.m.

    David says "as Obama has changed the law unilaterally a number of times since it was passed."

    Wrong. The President HAS NOT (and CANNOT) do that to any law.

    I believe Utah has a problem with education and information of its citizens. Rather than going to the source for information, they have some strange backchannel of "stuff" that they would rather believe.

  • E Sam Provo, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 3:28 p.m.

    It genuinely doesn't matter how passionately conservatives feel about the ACA. It's the law of the land, and will be implemented. And no, the President hasn't 'unilaterally amended the law.' A couple of minor provisions were delayed slightly because those participating weren't quite ready. Don't blow that up into a constitutional crisis.

  • Scott12345 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 3:37 p.m.

    I can agree with Herbert's quote in the last sentence: "I think there's a dearth of leadership in Washington, D.C." I think that applies to both sides.

    I'm not so sure I agree with Mike Lee's and the GOP tactics, in forcing a shutdown, and some of Herbert's other quotes herein. (I didn't view Herbert's whole statement, and sometimes news services, including the DesNews, can skew the meaning of quotes...)

  • viejogeezer CARLSBAD, CA
    Oct. 3, 2013 4:02 p.m.

    Informed:
    Didn't the Senate pass a budget earlier this year? And hasn't Boehner refused to go to conference on it? From what I understand, if the house were allowed to vote on a clean CR it would pass and the whole thing would be over. Why won't he allow the vote? The majority of house Republicans appear to want to distance themselves from nuts like Chafetz and Lee but are more afraid of primary challenges by the lunatic fringe than they are of destroying the economy, which is just what Herbert proposed.

  • CKS007 Clearfield, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 4:21 p.m.

    If the Republicans had offered the people an alternative plan to the ACA, then I could see them having a leg to stand on. Instead this past year they have tried to eliminate the whole law with nothing in return. Offer an alternative or try to fix the parts of the ACA that are broken (and yes there are some bad parts to this law). No wonder the population believes that the fringe elements have high jacked the Republican party and trying to drive it over a cliff. The Republicans will be the hurting come the next election especially if we continue to get embarrassments like Mike Lee running for office.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 4:26 p.m.

    Re Rainman

    The Republicans had every opportunity to participate in the debates of Obamacare they didn't want the healthcare solution for the American people, they were too busy looking after the interests of the upper classes.

  • Instereo Eureka, UT
    Oct. 3, 2013 4:41 p.m.

    Governor Herbert is just chiming in with more partisan rhetoric.

    We didn't have health care for millions of citizens. It has hurt our country along with the citizens. The republicans had years to address the problem but they never did and now that there's a law addressing it, they want to get rid of it instead of fix it.

    Governor Herbert is not helping the current standoff in Washington DC. He's just getting in line with all the other Tea Party politicians and forgetting a huge segment of our population.

  • A Guy With A Brain Enid, OK
    Oct. 3, 2013 5:49 p.m.

    @ JD Jones - Salt Lake City, UT - "What happened to Republicans respect for the rule of law? ACA is now law, so whether or not you agree with you it, if you shut down the government and hint that you won't raise the debt ceiling unless you get your way, you can't say you also respect the rule of law."

    Yeah, way to blame the Republicans. Simply say "they don't respect the law".

    JD, Republicans/conservatives do respect "law", but we have even MORE respect for WISDOM and COMMON SENSE.

    If it were a "law" to jump off a cliff, would you do it?

    Same thing applies here.

    Obamacare is a disaster and will prove to be the "law" that broke the camel's back if it goes through full force. Look at what Johnson's "Great Society" legislations (Medicaid/Medicare/increased welfare) did to America. It absolutely destroyed our work ethic and our public morality. Yes, destroyed it. Those programs have morphed into unending government "feed me" programs waaaaaay into the billions $$$ every year.....overbudget and broke, both financially and morally.

    "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty."

    -Thomas Jefferson

  • Bob K porland, OR
    Oct. 4, 2013 3:55 a.m.

    Rainman
    Syracuse, UT
    I blame them all! I agree that what the Republicans are doing is stupid but the Democrats shoved this law down all our throats when they had control of the house and senate. If they would have negotiated a bi-partisan deal back then, the Republicans would have had some skin in the game and we wouldn't be having this conversation....

    You forget that:
    A-- most of the bill was originally proposed by republicans, even Romney used to like it
    B-- we all would be much better off if Reagan or Nixon had handled this, but the rich interests that were against it then are even stronger now.
    C-- I remember very clearly that the President kept inviting republicans to put in suggestions and improvements, to no avail.
    D-- in fairness, when republicans have control or when a republican President nominates a Chief Justice who wants to get rid of popular and fair laws, do the democrats have childish tantrums and cry foul?

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Oct. 4, 2013 7:15 a.m.

    The Governor is dead wrong on this. I cannot believe he, as a Governor, does not recognize the precedent of a fringe element holding the budget and the economy hostage because they don't like a previously enacted law rather than a more orderly, rational approach such as pursuing a bona fide legislative agenda. In the future, will extreme elements from either the left or the right hold our nation hostage in order to get their way, even though they are in the minority, and legislation that has already passed, been adjudicated, and ratified by the voters? Is this the kind of country we want to live in? Even those on the right should fear this outcome, because the tables could turn on them if this effort prevails. Talk about undermining the Constitution (but I've maintained for a long time that desptie their rhetoric, the greatest threat to the nation will come from the right, not the left).

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Oct. 4, 2013 7:44 a.m.

    Both parties quit representing 'the people' a long time ago. What they represent is themselves and the corrupt money flowing into their coffers. Of course, the question has to be asked of the Democrats, who are are so ardent about the Republicans, or the Tea party, destroying the Constitution is this: How does one have faith in a leader of our country who demands whomever he wants to obey the law of the land (AFA), but excludes himself and others (Big business) from obeying it. This is as close to a dictator as you could get without a prison sentence for political views (which is just around the corner, if it isn't here already). I don't see anyone calling 'Marxist' philosophy 'hate speech', but how many 'old men' and others out there would put a Tea party member in jail for just expressing their viewpoint. If someone expresses the viewpoint of retaining limited government, is it 'hate speech'? Nah, grow up Americans. You have only yourself to blame, whether Democrat or Republican. Bury them both by looking at yourself.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Oct. 4, 2013 10:10 a.m.

    @ bandersen, the business about excluding government leaders from the ACA (not the AFA) is not correct. Do a little research on the issue (and not right wing/conservative advocacy sites).

  • TeaPublican Houston, TX
    Oct. 4, 2013 10:35 a.m.

    Is our Republican Conservative Leader and radioi host Glen Beck RIGHT? He warned the closing of the WW II Memorial by that guy Obama was a sign that Obama could be preparing for mass killings! He said it could be proof of a communist revolution that could end with millions dead! And then Rick Joyner, a leading Republican Christian leader, said "there is no way our Republic can last much longer. That there are forces right now that are seeking to undermine and to destroy the Republic. We're headed for serious tyranny....I appeal to the Lord: "Please don't let us be totally destroyed, please raise up those who will save us! I believe our only hope is martial law" Oh no, is this why Obama wanted to take away all of our guns? We TeaPublicans WILL take back our America in 2014 and 2016....wnd we will take back this Obama Communist movement too! "P n P" in 2016.....Perry and Palin...yes folks, it IS going to happen!

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Oct. 4, 2013 11:27 a.m.

    This tea party blame Obama spin is like a guy who tried to kill his parents and then complains when they cut him out of their will. Herbert needs to quit worrying about blame game over the shutdown, and get with the program to fund the Utah Medicaid expansion or there will be about 300000 people who will still not have health coverage even after the ACA succeeds.

    And what is wrong with the Utah's exchange web sites? Too much public interest, or a perhaps a little right wing sabotage?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Oct. 4, 2013 12:09 p.m.

    Ok liberals explain why the Tea Party is to blame and the Democrats are not? They are both standing up for what they believe in (regardless if you agree with either group), and are willing to fight for what they believe.

    The hypocrisy of the left is on display here as the liberals refuse to even negociate or engage in civil discourse over the issue, while complaining that the Tea Party won't just cave in and do what the liberals want.

  • Bob K porland, OR
    Oct. 4, 2013 3:17 p.m.

    RedShirt
    USS Enterprise, UT
    Ok liberals explain why the Tea Party is to blame and the Democrats are not? They are both standing up for what they believe in (regardless if you agree with either group), and are willing to fight for what they believe.

    The hypocrisy of the left is on display here as the liberals refuse to even negociate or engage in civil discourse over the issue, while complaining that the Tea Party won't just cave in and do what the liberals want......

    NO -- the TPs are trying to extort the President to change a law that has been on the books for 4 years. There were many offers to negotiate, but all the TP do is make a mockery of the House: no jobs bill, no infrastructure repair, no this, no that, no nothing, except for 4 dozen votes for a repeal that the Senate will never pass.

    If the Dems give in to the blatant bullying, the Country is lost, as the system of Government will be defeated.

    Sometimes your side loses, and you move on.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Oct. 7, 2013 7:38 a.m.

    To "Bob K" what offers to negociate have there been? Obama and most of the senior Democrat leadership has made it very clear that Obama does not want to negociate.

    The bigger question is why shouldn't we reconsider the ACA? It has already caused insurance prices to jump by 25% or more. It only gets coverage to 15 million of hte 45 million uninsured. It's requirements are so bad that many large businesses, unions, and government agencies have had to get exemptions. The whole process has been rushed to the point that Obama had to delay implementation for a large portion that applied to businesses.

    Overall, the ACA has been a failure and has caused more problems than it solved. Why shouldn't we debate how to fix or replace the mess it has caused?