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Letters: Sen. Mike Lee's stand for principle

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  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 5:19 a.m.

    Re: ". . . why don’t conservative Republicans and Democrats get busy proposing needed changes in the law?"

    Talk about your "foolish and hopeless exercises." It would be foolish and hopeless to waste time on reasonable approaches to changing Obamacare.

    As you mention, it's Obama and the left's signature piece of legislation. But they've admitted it just a first [rather large] step toward a socialized, single-payer takeover of medicine. Which is, of course, merely a step toward complete socialization of all means of production and service [communism].

    No left-leaning politician will agree to step back from the socialist brink -- that's where they want to be.

    Real people simply can't afford to compromise with the leftist enemy anymore. There are WAY more of us than there are of them. But they use the insane notion of some obligation to compromise with them as the club to beat us bloody and exercise minoritarian control.

    Every compromise brings them a step closer to victory.

    They've got to be stopped. And confrontation is the only way to do it.

  • Baron Scarpia Logan, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 6:05 a.m.

    Even President Obama admits that ObamaCare isn't perfect, but like past legislation, and even our Constitution, America has moved forward with implementing laws passed by Congress and worked to improve them. This should be the outlook of the GOP.

    I think because the GOP has been bent on "no" rather than making recommendations for improving the law, they've lost credibility with the majority of Americans, and it doesn't bode well for 2014 mid-term elections. Perhaps they fear that a year into ObamaCare, Americans will see how it works -- and if it seems to benefit citizens -- the GOP will lose further credibility.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 6:14 a.m.

    At the moment, anything at all proposed by any democrat will be met with a loud "NO" by Mike Lee and his crowd. They're just not interested in anything but their own way.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 27, 2013 6:51 a.m.

    The first duty of every Senator is to uphold the Constitution. The Constitution is our guarantee that the government will not use public money for private welfare. When most Senators, including our own Orrin Hatch willingly dip into the public treasury to pay for the personal welfare of the citizens, people like Mike Lee stand out as patriots.

    When a citizen asks government to use public money to pay their personal medical bills, they have breached their responsibility to require honesty in governmetn. Too many people have abdicated their rights and responsibilities of citizenship for a bowl of mush. They would rather have a nanny than to be free from an opressive government. The heritage that was passed to them is being squandered so that someone from the government will pat their heads and wipe their noses.

    Those who require other citizens to pay for their personal welfare do not deserve freedom. Freedom requires personal effort. It requires that all citizens reject those who would have a king, those who would grovel for crumbs that fall from the king's table. Obama has those pseudo citizens right where he wants them, grovelling for his crumbs.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 7:40 a.m.

    When you see a train wreck about to happen, you do everything in your means to avert it.

  • Really??? Kearns, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 7:53 a.m.

    I though the Tea Party members were against big union strikes. The actions of these so-called patriots threatening to close down the government to get rid of the Affordable Healthcare Act feel so much like union members who threaten to strike to get their way.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 8:28 a.m.

    The House of Representatives has passed a bill to fund the government while defunding Obamacare. The government will shut down only if Obama and the Senate want to shut it down.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 9:05 a.m.

    "The House of Representatives has passed a bill to fund the government while defunding Obamacare. The government will shut down only if Obama and the Senate want to shut it down."

    FALSE.

    The government will shut down only if the GOP continues to play its silly, childish games. Intelligent Americans -- and there are lots of us -- will see through the propaganda smoke screens and will know who to blame.

    Not only are Lee and Cruz making complete fools of themselves, they are also ensuring a sweeping victory by Democrats in the next election. It's going to be fun to watch.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Sept. 27, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    "So instead of threatening the very life of the Republican Party with the destructive extremism of no, no, no, why don’t conservative Republicans and Democrats get busy proposing needed changes in the law?"
    ______________________________

    If history is any indicator, that's eventually what will happen. But as long as political hay can be made by guys like Ted Cruz who would rather make a spectacle of himself than be a responsible legislator, we'll just have to wait for that circus to run its course.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    When they first formed, I hoped the Tea Party would break the gridlock in Washington. It turns out the Tea Party made gridlock worse... much worse. I understand the Republican Party taking the Tea Party under wing in hopes of revitalizing the GOP. They regret it now.

    The Republicans will bear the blame of a government shut down. I wonder if there is some way they can focus the blame on the Tea Party members in their party. That would allow the GOP to clean house and get back to the values of Ronald Reagan.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    Mike Lee and his allies cannot achieve their aims via our democratic process. If you want to repeal a law, both houses of congress have to pass a repeal bill and the president has to sign it. That's the only constitutional way to do it. Instead they are using extortion as a way to subvert a law that was legitimately enacted via our democratic process.

    Lee and his buddies are subverting the constitution and the rule of law.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 27, 2013 9:23 a.m.

    Glenn Reynolds, writing for USA Today, wrote: "So the Republican-controlled House of Representatives -- with the help of a couple of Democrats -- has voted to defund ObamaCare. In response, President Obama, declaring that the Republicans are "trying to mess with me," has accused the House of trying to shut down the government.

    But the government will only shut down if Obama vetoes the budget that comes to his desk. The House budget funds everything except for implementation of the Affordable Care Act better known as ObamaCare. In truth, by refusing even to negotiate with the House leadership and threatening to veto a budget that doesn't fit his own specifications, it is Obama, not the House of Representatives, who is putting the country at risk of a government shutdown."

    ----

    Many on the Left would like us to believe that the Republicans are behind the effort to hurt America by "shutting down America". Obama wanted us to hurt as much as possible when he crippled the Airports after his Squester plan was enacted. Now he is trying to tell us that he is not responsible for his threats, even though he holds the pen in his own hand.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 9:24 a.m.

    Entirely missing from this Cruz/Lee circus is anything resembling a coherent, workable alternative from the GOP for the tens of millions of Americans who can't obtain or afford health insurance under our current system.

    Lest we forget, the ACA is in fact just a national version of "Romneycare" in Massachusetts, which was originally the brainchild of the conservative Heritage Foundation.

    Individual mandates, extra taxes for failing to offer employees health insurance, state-run insurance exchanges, eliminating pre-existing conditions exclusions, those all were _Republican_ ideas from the mid-1990's.

    Meanwhile, healthcare costs are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in our nation, we spend vastly more per person on healthcare administration costs than any other nation, yet we rank well below other industrialized nations in terms of quality and availability of healthcare.

    If you don't like the ACA, fine, offer a workable alternative, explain how it would work, how much in would cost, why it's better than the ACA, and get busy convincing politicians to get on board.

    Otherwise - you're just wasting everyone's time.

  • Mick Stupp Happy Valley, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 9:27 a.m.

    It's fine to stand on principle. But if your principles are dead wrong, as most of the Tea Party principles are--particularly their naive view of economics--then standing on principle is about the worst thing you can do.

  • Nonconlib Happy Valley, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    one old man,

    I hate to disagree with you. You're usually spot on. But it will take more than Lee and Cruz to defeat the GOP in House elections next year. In spite of Democrats winning the overall vote in House elections in 2012, the GOP has gerrymandered its way to a majority by catering to pockets of extremism. It will take two or three more cycles of lunacy to convince enough die-hard conservatives that their chosen ones are destroying the country.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 9:43 a.m.

    I don't know what would happen if "the government shut down". Though there are those who artfully suggest, and even outrightly state, that it would mean military pay and social security etc would cease to function apparently that is not the case.

    What WOULD happen then? Does anyone know?

    I am pleased to see Senator Lee, Cruz, Sessions etc attempt to prevent the ACA bill passing. Many people have already received letters stating that their insurance premiums will go up, while others have had their work hours reduced to part time due to the ACA. One of our children has already said that they will pay the penalty; they could not afford health care before and they still cannot. They will be worse off and still have no health care.

    Democrats are afraid to withdraw their support of ACA and Republicans are afraid they will be called bad names if they stand for anything. Most of Congress seem unconcerned about others as a ruling class with special retirement and health care programs funded in large part by the taxpayers.

    A majority of the people do not seem to want this program.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    Correction: I am pleased with Senator Lee et all trying to prevent the ACA bill being FUNDED; it already passed.

    After the juggernaut is halted or paused, by defunding, a complete and detailed discussion could then take place on this subject, which never took place before in its breathless passage. This is a fundamental change to American society and needs a comprehensive airing.

    I would hope that it is a bill that is presented not a complete bureaucratic code, so far as it length is concerned. I doubt if a handful, if even that, of the senators and representatives actually read the bill and we all know of Pelosi's shameful statement that they should pass the bill and then learn what it actually contained.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 10:14 a.m.

    Cruz and Lee's overriding purpose with their tactics is to raise money for entrenching themselves in the dysfunctional Senate. Those that call Jim Matheson a democrat are delusional. What we have here is a congress of monkeys that have no understanding about economics or the constitutional process of government. Instead of rolling up their sleeves and fixing the flaws they, themselves created, they will damage the "full faith and credit" of the United States. Unprecedented. By the way, Mike Lee has no white horse.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 10:44 a.m.

    It's enlightening to observe that those who are against Mike Lee use something called "evil speaking" against him to further their agenda. They can't or won't promote the advantages of ObamaCare. For that matter, even Obama will not or cannot promote ObamaCare. He wants the enforcement of that bill to be delayed. He doesn't want the political fallout of what he champions to return and bite him in the 2014 election.

    Mike Lee has the courage to tell us that the emperor is wearing no clothes, even as those who sing and dance with Obama try to tell us that Obama's non-existant clothes are too fine to see and to pure to feel. Mike Lee stands up for the Constitution while Obama and Obama's minions trample all over that document.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 10:45 a.m.

    @T party

    so its your way or the highway the? sorry the congress does not get out of it that easy.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 10:55 a.m.

    "...if it can't get 100 percent of what it wants,"

    "pass a budget without drama."

    These are quotes by our president.

    Well the House passed 99% of the funding for the government.

    That is a far cry from saying 'no' to everything. It is saying yes to 99% of what democrats want.

    But for the democrats, they demand 100% or they will shut this country down!

    The final quote from Obama, "I won't compromise on the debt...."

    With him it is his way, or NO WAY!

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 10:57 a.m.

    Roland Kayser

    Cottonwood Heights, UT

    Mike Lee and his allies cannot achieve their aims via our democratic process. If you want to repeal a law, both houses of congress have to pass a repeal bill and the president has to sign it. That's the only constitutional way to do it. Instead they are using extortion as a way to subvert a law that was legitimately enacted via our democratic process.

    Lee and his buddies are subverting the constitution and the rule of law.
    9:20 a.m. Sept. 27, 2013

    ===========

    Brillant comment!

    Agreed 100%

    That is EXACTLY what they are doing....
    Extortion -- just like the Mafia.

    Dis-obeying the rule of law and Trampling the Constitution.

    Kind of reminds me of Lucifer, when he didn't get HIS way by a Democratic process.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 11:02 a.m.

    The tea party is demonstrating that it is not about governing but obstructing, intimidating, and dogmatism. Hopefully this will be the end of the movement.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 11:10 a.m.

    The trouble is, Mike Lee doesn't have a way. He has no plan, other than loudly proclaiming "NO"! to anything the President attempts to do.
    The healthcare system in the US is a failure. In most medical categories we rank far below many countries that Americans consider third world, an we pay far more for it than any other nation. It is a failure for most Americans.
    Romneycare is far from perfect but it is a huge step in the right direction and all Lee can do is scream NO!

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 11:23 a.m.

    Re: "Entirely missing from this Cruz/Lee circus is anything resembling a coherent, workable alternative from the GOP for the tens of millions of Americans who can't obtain or afford health insurance . . . ."

    And, of course, as liberals never mention -- Obamacare will only make it WORSE. The "Affordable Care Act" is ANYTHING but. It was designed to leave out illegal aliens and 30 million Americans. And many more who can now afford care will simply be priced out of the market.

    Obamacare is designed to collapse the system and make health care more unavailable than it is now, so liberals can ride in on their white horses and "save" us from the crisis they intentionally created.

    It's just standard disingenuous, destructive leftist tactics at work.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 11:25 a.m.

    Oh, Nonconlib, that is absolutely frightening. But I'm afraid you're right. Too many Americans lack the intelligence needed to see what's happening. Either that, or they're distracted by their constant need for entertainment.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    Baron Scarpia,
    Republicans HAVE tried to make minor changes. But any time they even TRY to TOUCH ObamaCare the Democrats freak out.

    They don't have the numbers to change it (every proposal is called "DOA" by the Democrat controlled Senate, and doesn't even get read by the Senate). But they do have the numbers to block it. So that's what they do.

    The founding fathers WANTED the minority to be able to block things. They WANTED the majority to have to work with the minority until there was enough "WIN" in it for BOTH sides before anything passed (meaning almost all Americans would be happy with the legislation before it passed... not just HALF of the Americans).

    IF Democrats had done this back when they had their super-majority power-orgy... we wouldn't be where we are today. The legislation would have been hammered out and hopefully improved with wins for BOTH sides in it before it passed. That's what the founding fathers WANTED to happen. Not one side running roughshod over the other doing anything they wanted and not even including the other side in the negotiations.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 12:38 p.m.

    I like principles as much as the next guy, and I like politicians who will stand on principle. But I have to wonder how much of this is real principles... and how much is self promotion.

    IF it's real principles... then I'm for it (even though it will ultimately fail).

    IF it's just "look at me" (as most politicians are)... then I don't approve.

    I do like America to remain a capitalist nation with free market principles. I DON'T want America to be "fundamental transformed"... IF that transformation is TOO a Socialist Welfare State. I prefer the "Participation Society" the Dutch are returning to (after realizing the socialist welfare state doesn't work).

    Obama said, "we are just 5 days from fundamentally transforming the United States", 5 days before taking office. Yesterday he said "We are 5 days away from COMPLETING the Fundamental Transformation"... To WHAT? A Welfare State?

    If you don't think this transition to government controlling your health is important... why did he say the "COMPLETION" of the transformation is just 5 days away?

    Obviously this IS important to the Socialist transition plan. And therefor is an issue of Principle (to some of us)

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 1:42 p.m.

    Is it just me,
    or does Sen. Mike Lee remind anyone else of the Black Knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail?

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Sept. 27, 2013 1:59 p.m.

    Why not go for some improvements to the law? in a few words, because they are afraid the ACA may actually be successful.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    @6:51 a.m. Sept. 27, 2013
    @10:44 a.m. Sept. 27, 2013

    =========

    12.We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

    The ACA already IS the law of the land.
    How can you say and believe one thing, and do another?
    Where's the integrity?

    Here's a HINT,
    Try this;

    Good,
    Better,
    Best.

    If you don't like ACA,
    Follow the prophet's advise [OK, Elder Dallin H. Oaks] and come up with something better!

    IMHO - Single-payer is the BEST.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 4:15 p.m.

    Liberal,

    Do you really think that ObamaCare is the law of the land? The Court declared that it was a tax, that Congress had the right to levy taxes, and that elections have consequences. They did not rule on the legality of that tax. Obama told us that ObamaCare was not a tax and now he refuses to implement that tax so that the Court can't rule on its legality until after the 2014 election. Reid has said that ObamaCare was just a step towards a single-payer health care plan. Pelosi told us that we wouldn't know what was in the bill until the bill was passed.

    So, do you accept Obama's rejection of the Court? Do you accept Reid's redefinition of what ObamaCare is supposed to do? Do you accept Pelosi's statement that no one even knows what is in that bill?

    Mike Lee had the courage to refute Obama, Reid and Pelosi. He had the courage to reject that tax as something that the people had authorized. If seems that you have no such qualms.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 5:42 p.m.

    @T. Party 7:40 a.m. Sept. 27, 2013

    When you see a train wreck about to happen, you do everything in your means to avert it.

    ----------------------

    Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, and those like them are the train wrecks that have already happened, and are about to happen again. It's long past the time when they should be sent packing. Is it possible to impeach then and remove them from office? If not -- vote them the heck out of office the next time they stand for election. The people of this country deserve better.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 27, 2013 5:59 p.m.

    J Thompson: "Do you really think that ObamaCare is the law of the land?"

    The ACA passed in both houses of congress,
    The ACA was signed into law by the president,
    The ACA was sustained by the US Supreme Court after a legal challenge,

    So yes, it is in fact the law of the land.

    That's the way our government works.

    Moreover, we held a national election in 2012, with Romney campaigning against the ACA, and Obama campaigning on its behalf. Obama won.

    In the Senate, the Democrats, running on a platform of endorsing the ACA expanded their majority.

    Moreover, nationally, significantly more people voted for Democratic congressional representatives than Republicans. The only reason the GOP still holds the House is their gerrymandering.

    One more time - the ACA _is_ the law of the land, and when put to a vote in public, it does well.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Sept. 28, 2013 12:08 a.m.

    Question for Mike Richards:

    You seem to be a self-proclaimed expert on the Constitution.

    I need your interpretations of the Necessary and Proper Clause and Promoting the General Welfare.

    It seems to me that any law passed by Congress, signed by the President and then upheld by the Supreme Court could fall into either of those two things.

    I don't like the ACA that much, I have serious misgivings. But it seems to me it is Constitutional based on the system we have used since The Constitution.

    How do you see it? Am I missing something?

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Sept. 28, 2013 8:03 a.m.

    So many conservatives are now trying to shift the blame for a shutdown to the democrats. Whatever happened to your "take personal responsibility" mantra? It only suits you when it isn't you taking the responsibility, I see. What hypocrites.

  • watchman Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 28, 2013 10:06 a.m.

    Very meaningful and thoughtful letter. A Republican party without principles means little.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Sept. 28, 2013 3:24 p.m.

    Re: "So many conservatives are now trying to shift the blame for a shutdown to the democrats."

    Seems only fair. It IS their fault.

    They're the ones who've taken any compromise off the table, insisting they're going to hold out for EVERYTHING they want, instead of 99 and 44/100.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 28, 2013 8:36 p.m.

    @J Thompson
    SPRINGVILLE, UT

    Liberal,
    Do you really think that ObamaCare is the law of the land?

    =====

    Blue
    Salt Lake City, UT

    J Thompson: "Do you really think that ObamaCare is the law of the land?"

    The ACA passed in both houses of congress,
    The ACA was signed into law by the president,
    The ACA was sustained by the US Supreme Court after a legal challenge,

    So yes, it is in fact the law of the land.

    That's the way our government works.

    =======

    Thanks Blue.

    He either doesn't know how our system of Government spelled out in the Constitution works,
    or is bending over backwards to TRAMPLE it.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Sept. 29, 2013 12:11 a.m.

    @Roland Keyser "If you want to repeal a law, both houses of congress have to pass a repeal bill and the president has to sign it. That's the only constitutional way to do it."

    The House didn't repeal the law, it defunded it. The Constitution grants the power of the purse to the House of Representatives. "All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives...." Madison said that the power of the purse rightly belongs to the house of government closest to the people. Far from being unconstitutional, it is exactly what the Constitution provides.

    It is well-established that the present Congress is not bound by the acts of any previous Congress. If the current Congress withholds funding from legislation passed by a previous Congress, they have every right to do so.

    A recent example is the border fence, which is currently the law of the land, but is not being funded, and therefore is not being built. You seem to think it is unconstitutional to withhold this funding. If so, you are mistaken.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 29, 2013 3:50 p.m.

    So far Mike Lee has proven he has no principles. His job is to do what is right for the majority of Americans. He's not doing that. So far he hasn't come close to doing that even one time.
    Is plan is no plan. He simply needs to go back to being an ambulance chaser.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 30, 2013 1:35 p.m.

    Senator Lee is a sponsor of a all or nothing bill, If he does not get his way. All or nothing requires him to resign if Obamacare funded.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 30, 2013 6:13 p.m.

    Love the work that Mike Lee is doing. He is doing exactly what he was sent to do. Go Mike!!!