And to think that the people in Utah would vote for Lee over Bob Bennett is
Will Utah succeed from the Union with Texas when the attempt to defund the
Affordable Healthcare Act fails. Will Cruz and Lee benefit for attempt to shut
down the government?
Definitely two peas in one terribly confused and misdirected pod.
Misdirected?Not really.It's called fight fire with fire.The Chicago way! ;)
The facts:1) Obamacare has unquestionally been declared the most
expensive "tax" (per the Supreme Court) in the history of our
country.2) Obamacare amounts to a redistribution of wealth... the
primary characteristic of socialism.3) Obamacare is opposed by the
majority of Americans as shown by virtually all major polls. As
such, Lee is doing the right thing in helping represent what the majority of
Americans want... though the liberal press are doing their level best to
denigrate Cruiz and Lee... regardless of what people actually want. It's
refreshing to see politicians stand up for correct principles instead of
cow-towing to other politicians who are more interested in their political
careers than doing what they know in their hearts to be the right thing for our
Please can't we impeach Lee or even better let him run for president.
Doesn't anyone in this country get it? We are spending money like a drunken
sailor on bureaucrats, welfare, medicaid, medicare, you name it, with high
taxes, huge unemployment as people withdraw from the work force. These two men
are fighting a losing battle it is true.
Good for them! More people need to do what is right regardless of the political
consequences. The Republican party has been spineless and has been pummelled
over by the strong armed democrats and liberal media machine for long enough. It
is time we draw a line in the sand and don't erase it when the going gets
tough. If this were about egos like Obama's 'red line' I would
say don't draw it in the first place, but it is about what is best for the
country. Good for them!
I'm grateful for Lee's leadership and strongly support him. Senator
Hatch blows every which way depending on where popular misunderstanding lands
one day or well-connected lobbyists dictate the next. Lee reads widely, studies
the issues, can explain his votes, and has a connection to reality. And the
reality is that Federal government is way way overgrown and out-of-control
regardless of political ideology. That's a fact. And if some Federal
trimming and short vacations need to happen to start talking about those facts
then that is something that perhaps we should welcome. I wish both our Senators
were on that page. *Senator* Obama talked eloquently in 2006 about the failure
of Federal leadership. He declared it was immoral and unconscionable to keep
kicking the can down the road and heap un-repayable debts on our children and
grandchildren. He was right. But then he stopped caring and just started
playing along like Senator Hatch. Thank goodness for Freshman Senators.
Sen Lee has so far done nothing for the people of Utah. The tea party likewise
is a nothing group. So called obamacare has several good points, 1. requires us
to purchase health insurance instead of becoming a ward of the state, 2.
requires health insurance providers to provide to all instead of denying any
coverage to the sickest among us, 3. caps the profit of health insurance
companies. The anti's could start with coming up with good modifications
to the aca, such as further capping compensation to health insurance company
execs (down to $300k would be my suggestion), such as requiring employers of any
person (not just those 40 hr per weekers) to provide a health insurance policy,
such as requiring employers of any person (above) to pay a living wage which
would include enough to purchase a health insurance plan, and otherwise to live
near that employer's place of business. Change the tax code, schedule A,
to reduce the threshhold of 7.5% before a taxpayer can deduct the cost of health
insurance.Got more ideas.Senator Lee, go there, Texas, with Cruz,
they'll like you there. Not here.
Called "wack-o birds" by members of their own party, with friends
like that, who needs enemies?gotta love it...
Two nuts in one shell.
re:Tators"1) Obamacare has unquestionally been declared the most
expensive "tax" (per the Supreme Court) in the history of our
country"Factcheck:Using “constant” dollars
— all adjusted to equal the value of a dollar in 2009 — the ACA
drops to fourth place, and the tax increase signed in 1982 by President Reagan
becomes the largest since 1968.
@ Truthseeker:We have yet to see the total financial ramifications
from Obamacare. You may try to hide the likely truth with "constant"
dollars (lipstick on a pig), but Obama isn't thru with this yet. He keeps
adding exemptions and changes to his own bill (unconstitutionally, since
it's already been declared law... meaning only Congress should be able to
change it). Before Obama is thru with this, even ardent liberals
will have to admit what a train-wreck Obamacare is. Watch and learn.
The irony of it all. When you actually have someone standing for something,
whether Tea-party or Communist, the status quo goes berserk. You can either go
with the status quo, Republican or Democrat (the naive and deluded), or you can
go with someone who actually has a different approach to making government work
(Maybe defending the Constitution, supporting free enterprise, and limiting
government would work better than war, welfare dependency, and socialism).
It's really simple. Mike Lee doesn't believe in European style
socialism. He actually believes in liberty, Individual rights, and the
Constitution. It's not surprising that those who are against him
don't. Their Utopia is somewhere between a marxist death camp and the
welfare state, both of which Lee rejects. Studying history and the Constitution
would be a good beginning point to understanding why liberty is the foundation
for anything good. Republicans and Democrats routinely reject liberty and throw
everybody who doesn't go along with them overboard. When I see the vitriol
directed toward Senator Lee, I'm certain he must be doing something right.
To "dave4197" you realize that everything else from the ACA has been a
huge failure.Lets look at the primary reasons why it was
implemented. The biggest argument for the ACA was that it would lower the cost
of insurance. Since implementation it has only increased the cost of insurance
and pushed insurance companies to decrease benefits as a cost savings
measure.The other argument was that it would increase the number of
insured people in the US. Since its implementation companies like McDonalds
that had limited healthcare benefits are dropping health insurance programs or
are cutting employee hours so they don't qualify for insurance.We were also told that it would reduce the deficit. Now, it will raise the
deficit.We can go into all of the taxes that were raised and the
expensive mandates too if you want to, but the problem is that the ACA has
failed in its primary goal.
re:RedShirt1. Not much will be different as the law is put into
place for those who get insurance through their employers, and that’s the
bulk of Americans. 2. New minimum benefit standards will mean more
generous insurance plans for many of those who buy health coverage on their own
on the individual market, which has been able to offer cheap, bare-bones
plans.3. A report released by the Lewin Group, notes that the costs
will vary by state. States that already limit premium variability based on age
or health status will not seeing much of an increase. In fact, costs could
decrease, as “younger and healthier individuals will enroll due to the
reduced cost from the premium subsidies,” the report says. Other states
without community rating will experience an increase in costs.4. The
CBO reported the average premium per person in the individual market would go up
by 10-13% because of the health care law, but for most, subsidies would push
their costs “well below” what they would have been charged without
the law. (factcheck)
,Thank you, Mike Lee and Ted Cruz.Because of your constant,
anti-American efforts to ruin the US Economy, we Democrats will take control of
the House of Representatives in 2014 and 2016 (when another Democrat will be
elected).Even the right-wing Supreme Court upheld the ACA (what/s
that? If you don't know....you shouldn't be screaming
"Obamacare").Not only will the ACA HELP the economy by
insuring that the users of health facilities PAY for it, but it will provide
jobs in that industry.What else do we do, that cannot be off-shored?
Build homes? We know how that worked out.Let's pull together,
fix what needs fixed in the ACA....and get on with our wonderful country. Tea Partiers, get off Medicare and Social Security if you don't like
@Redshirt1701"Since implementation it has only increased the cost of
insurance and pushed insurance companies to decrease benefits as a cost savings
measure."Costs have increased at the slowest rate in half a
century (this is attributed mostly to the recession) so that idea is incorrect.
Also most of Obamacare hasn't even gone into effect yet. Once the
subsidies, ban on preexisting condition denial for adults (its' been in
effect for children for years), and exchanges kick in then we'll see what
the effect of Obamacare is. As for companies... some of them are
dropping benefits because the exchanges are a cheaper system for their employees
than what the employees were paying under company plans.
what about coporate welfare why dont ant of you say anthing about it. or
spending on weapons the army says it doe not want and the air force says it does
lket,I've heard both my district's Congressman (Chaffetz)
and one of my Utah Senators (Lee) speak up numerous times against corporate
welfare -- including, as you mention, superfluous military cuts -- as well.
They're certainly not perfect, lol, but they tend to pursue many types of
budget cuts -- unlike my other Utah Senator (Hatch) who constantly pushes
extremely expensive and unnecessary "security" and "defense"
corporate welfare bills pushed by his longtime lobbyist friends.
@ Reasonable Person:Obamacare has cost many more jobs than it's
created. Many mid-sized companies are cutting back their number of employees
just to get below the 50 person threshold. On top of that, many other companies
are turning previous full-time jobs into part-time jobs just to avoid Obamacare
requirements. That's exactly the reason the heads of the 6 biggest unions
in the country recently sent letters to Obama with their firm opposition to
itSo far, Obamacare has been only negative for the economy. There
is a reason Obamacare is becoming more and more unpopular in all the polls as
more of it becomes known.@ alt34:Who do you think will
be paying for all the subsidies Obamacare is promising? Most companies are
trying to avoid Obamacare like a plague because of the enormous cost increases
to them (see iinfo above)... even to the point of changing many jobs to part
time and reducing their work forces. Also, by dropping their insurance
benefits, it only proves that employees are not able to keep their existing
coverages like Obama promised. Also, almost all studies are predicting
substantial cost increases for most people.
To "Truthseeker" and "atl134" you are both wrong. Let me use my
insurance as an example.I still pay close to what I did before
Obamacare, but I get fewer benefits. Before when my children were sick or
injured I could go to a Doctor's office and pay a $25 co-pay and get them
looked at. Now, I pay out of pocket until I meet the deductable, then my
insurance pays 75% of the costs. I pay more, and get less coverage.The costs are going up, and if they have gone up as much as they have without
full implementation, what will happen once we have full implementation.If you think costs are not going up that much, think again. It is more common
to read stories like "One man's ObamaCare nightmare" from Fox News.
See "Where Obamacare premiums will soar" at CNN.
It's kind of interesting to hear those who want to criticize those who
believe in the Constitution and don't believe in Socialism with things
like, "get off social security and medicare." What they don't get
is, we agree! Get the government out of everything that destroys initiative,
creates welfare, promotes promiscuity, pays for war, keeps the poor poor and the
rich rich, etc., etc., etc. It's so ironic that the ones who want free
health care, higher taxes, government theft, bureaucratic malaise, descending
educational achievement, etc. will howl with a torrent of righteous indignation
when Senator Lee proposes a higher tax credit for parents with children. I
don't want anything from the government but to do what it was
constitutional mandated to do, protect my individual rights. In its absence,
I'm going to propose that we confiscate all the wealth of everyone and give
it to me, since I would least have some fun with it. Most of them are just
miserable with it anyway. Since there is no common sense and no one willing to
stand on principle, let this be my principle; Give it to me!
Subject to the political realities, the main purpose of the ACA is to allow
people to get insurance coverage who can't get it now. Is that bad, I ask
Has there ever been anything more embarrassing to the State of Utah
These two Senators are wasting everyone's time. If you have a legislative
proposal, put it out there. But you offer nothing whatsoever except
obstruction. Will you do this for every law with whihc you don't like, the
ones that were properly enacted, upheld by the Spurprem Court, and ratified by
the people in the 2012 election? Isn't that anarchy, or worse? Do these
Senators need big red noses and oversized shoes?
@RedshirtOh well let me throw out the national reports I drew my result
from (Commerce Department data) and instead use your one person sample size.
To "atl134" I am not alone. From Forbes we read "Obamacare Will
Increase Health Spending By $7,450 For A Typical Family of Four"They based their analysis on data produced by Medicare Actuaries.How can health insurance be less expensive if it costs more? The money has to
come from somewhere.You also missed the CNN report that included
information telling us how for many states the increased cost of insurance is
anywhere form 24% to nearly 100% more than before Obamacare. It isn't just
me, it is the insurance actuators too that that are saying it will cost more.
The sample size is in millions, not just 1.
Bravo to Senators Lee and Cruz for heroically standing up for principled
opposition to one of the worst laws ever passed, and actually trying to fix that
problem.Where is our Senior Senator Hatch during this opportunity
for his seniority, wisdom and experience to stop Obamacare? The answer is, he
is hiding waiting to see which way the wind blows, or to avoid irritating his
"friends across the aisle."Congress, especially the
perpetually constipated Senate, has gotten us into serious problems, and usually
made them only worse. This is a moment when Senators can support Ted Cruz and
Mike Lee and fix the problem of Obamacare. Or, they can weasel around and try
to land on both sides of the issue and fight for their own reelection and power,
not to save the country for future generations.
Kindred spirit? As in Lucifer? Not a kindred spirit of Jesus Christ. Kindred
spirit of Joe McCarthy maybe.
Why is it that it will be only the republicans that will be accused of shutting
down the government when neither party nor the POTUS will agree to come to a
compromise? The republicans house has already pass a bill to fund the government
until the first of the years but Senator Reid has already that will not be even
brought for a vote. Reid will take the house bill and delete the parts that he
does not like and add what he wants and bring that vote up for vote. But that
would be illegal if I am not wrong. If only four democratic senators
abandon Reid the house version could pass then if the POTUS vetoed it then who
would be causing the shutdown.If the congress and POTUS does not get their
head out where the will not break their neck if the set down to hard this
country will become a has been. China and Russia will be more than willing to
take our place. Then that might be an improvement.
We have yet to see the total financial ramifications from Obamacare. You may try
to ignore the likely truth with right wing fear mongering, but this law
hasn't had a chance to show its benefits yet. After ACA has
been fully implemented and had its kinks worked out, even ardent conservatives
will have to admit what a great blessing Obamacare is. Watch and learn.But I'm afraid not even that will get them to stop listening to the
doomsayers of hate radio and the Tea Party.
@MarxistThe idea is good, the bill is very very bad.A
better idea is not needing insurance at all.So why does the left
want to burden everybody, hurt business, and make the the healthcare system
worse.Yeah, no need for insurance is a much better idea. --@one old manextreme labeling of opponents from
leftist extemists is not constructive and false.
To "one old man" if the signs that we have already seen from Obamacare
are any indication of what full implementation will bring, then we are
doomed.You forget that when Obamacare was first proposed its total
cost was going to be $800 billion over 10 years. Now, it is $2.7 Trillion over
10 years, and that isn't even 10 years of full implementation. If just
partial implementation raises its cost by $1.9 Trillion, then how much more will
full implementation cost us?It is also well documented that many
businesses have cut worker hours to 29 hours or less, and many businesses have
cut benefits.How many more signs of doom do you need to see before
you believe that Obamacare is a disaster and will do more economic harm than
Cruz and Lee are making fools of themselves. One definition of a zealot is
"one who redoubles his efforts when he has lost sight of his goal."
Cruz is an egotist and is a laughingstock within his own party (see the article
in GQ, for example). By allying himself with Cruz, Lee risks being tarred with
the same brush.
Great for the sake of argument the affordable health care act is a bad idea, how
about the republicans coming up with a better idea instead of these little games
To "Fred44" they did come up with ideas that were better, but the
Democrats refused to consider them. Even if they just said that they would do
nothing, that is a better idea than raising insurance premiums, and all of the
other unintended consequences that we now have to deal with.
I tend to vote R (but not exclusively by any means). I cannot wrap my head
around the approach being taken by individuals such as these in the present
political environment. You are setting up the R for a landslide loss in 2016,
and bragging all the way. People are past the hater persona; come up with real
solutions instead of endless bashing. If the ideas are compelling, people will
sign up to them. Otherwise, you just leave a bad taste in people's mouth
@WGWonka@Fred44How about we stop the childish and calling and
obviously false labeling,and how about we stop the monstrosity that
is Obama care first,and then come with another plan if we must,any plan that covers and governs the health care of over 300 million
people and 1/6th of our economy needs to take a lot time and care to craft and
by input of a lot of people, if we are to do it right.It
us huge undertaking to do it right and not a simple proposal or bill,The horrendous obamacare was none of that, none of that at all, just a quick
and horrible attempt by the extreme left to take over health care.
Kindred spirits? Sure, they're both scum of the earth. I don't say
that just to name-call. We fought a world war to rid the world of creatures
like Lee and Cruz, but alas they are always with us. Such a dismal prospect on
the future of the human species! The only hope is that what they represent will
eventually die out, like the Neanderthals they compare unfavorably with.
I talked for 21 hours -- And didn't give us ONE better idea, solution
Kindred spirits...? Did Lee make Cruz crazy, or did Cruz make Lee crazy?
Senator Ted Cruz reminded me of how I have always imagined our forefathers to be
~ Patriotic Statesmen. I commend Senator Cruz for his brilliant stand against
tyranny and our lackadaisical, corrupt, status-quo government.
Don't even think about running the Canadian born Cruz for president.
Don't even go there.
Lee. I just have to sigh.
Today people talk about how "Republicans shut the government down", as
if they were the runs running the show. Precious years from now, we'll get
to read about how the few who stood and proclaimed what is true despite their
bi-partisan opposition, and the reign of kingmen in our capitol.