LDS mission delayed for driver of vehicle in 'bottle bomb' case
Absolutely overcharged!!!! I tell my teenage sons all the time, I am grateful I
am not a teenager in this day and age. There is no room for mistakes anymore.
We all have done stupid things as kids. With the internet, the smallest mistakes
now become national news. Give them community service and move along.
Yes, the teenagers were needlessly and intentionally overcharged. Overcharging
is another form of law enforcement corruption.
Welcome to the court system kids. Add excessive charges so you can plea down to
a more appropriate charge. It's the same thing as listing a car on KSL for
$1000 more than it's worth because the buyer will want to talk you down.
If you or a child encounter multiple scrapes with the law, your eyes get opened
to the significant amount of bullying, overcharging, constitutional violations,
and fabrications that are committed by law enforcement and prosecutors. I spent
my first 50 years blissfully inexperienced with law enforcement, with full
respect of police, always giving them the benefit of the doubt when I heard
conflicting stories from accused individuals.For 3 years, my last
child struggled with some very poor decisions, many of which ran afoul of the
law. In nearly every case, the actual offenses were bad enough, and deserved
attention and legal consequences. But, law enforcement in most cases created
additional offenses which did not occur, or included clear deceptions to either
enhance the violation or increase the penalties. In court, the overreaching and
deceptions typically get caught and thrown out, but not until a lot of time and
money is spent defending against what never should have been charged in the
first place.I'm not so quick to reject the overcharging
allegations any longer. It does occur much, much more often than typical
law-abiding people would ever imagine.
Law abiding people may make a random 'poor choice', but making them
over and over and over again does not a law abiding person make. Sadly, in a
hurry to push things through the legal system, deals are made so to secure any
type of justice for the victim law enforcement has to many times over charge in
order to get anything near justice for the Victim after the deals are made. Sad
but remember it is about justice for the Victim and not mitigating the
punishment for the perpetrator. Pranks? Sit for a few hours calming a young
child or animal who becomes terrified from the noise/aftermath of the
'prank'. In this day and age of mass murders, terrorist attacks, and
the like do families need the added stress of trying to distinguish between a
real attack and a prank? Do these acts really reflect well on a 'Miss
Riverton' or a representative of the LDS church? Is this the type of
person I want to teach my family about right and wrong and religion? Jail time
and community service probation will help them reflect on what is a prank and
what is a crime.
When the law is applied in an arbitrary and capricious manner its a sign the
government might be the enemy of the people rather than the servant. They can
charge some and excuse others, I hope the judge throws the whole thing out.
It appears the magic is in the makeup for Miss Gill. Her mug shot doesn't
even really look like her.
They are being charged under State Statute 76-10-306 as it pertains to chemical
bombs. During my career as a bomb technician (now retired) I do recall a court
ordering two juvenile defendants to pay restitution in the amount of $7,000 to
replace a newly poured concrete driveway that had been damaged as a result of
the acid contained in the devices thrown onto a homeowner's property. I
also remember on a number of occasions staying up through the night patrolling a
neighborhood of worried citizen's including children who were scared and
could not understand what was going on. Oh, and by the way, who covers the
needless expense for the $100,000 of equipment and man-power that rolls out in
the middle of the night to respond to these harmless pranks? The point is there
is so much more that goes on when these stupid pranks take place that does have
a significant emotional and financial impact on the community that may not get
While Ms. Gill possibly may be overcharged, after watching her on the news a few
minutes ago, I am not convinced that she understand that she could have caused
serious injury. She she should be charged for what happened, not what could have
happened. Still, I am not sure she gets it.
@sukiyhtaky - those are very similar to my thoughts before "entering"
the system firsthand with my son. I don't know who you're talking
about breaking the law over and over and wanting to be called "law
abiding." Those kids in this article haven't broken the law over and
over again, and if you're referring to my comment, I never said my son was
a law abiding person. I have been. You've probably been as well, so you
think overcharging chronic law-breakers is a good idea to arrive at ultimate
justice. Walk in the shoes awhile and see what you think about
police who are actually violating Constitutional rights when they intentionally
overcharge. See how you feel to spend $5000 defending against a bogus DUI
charge because police wanted to send a message to a kid who didn't dress
the way they like.No, the act doesn't reflect well on a
"Miss Riverton." That's why she stepped down - to take
responsibility. A poorly conceived prank of this nature does not warrant a
lifetime scarlet letter of felony. The overcharge is a despicable act of
bullying - a shameful law enforcement or prosecutorial weapon.
Youtube is full of these noisemakers that are now called terrorists bombs.This is just sick, disgusting people creating the drama they crave at
the expense of this girl and her friends. I doubt it would go so far if it
we're so sensational that she was a pageant winner. A dark
cloud over Utah.
Faded Glory @ Sukyhtaki, You both sounds like curmedgeonly old
people who need to lighten up. Sukyhtaki: If you really need to
calm your child for hours every time they hear a loud bang or see a bunch of
teens through a pop bottle out the window that explodes, then I really feel for
you during the 4th and 24th of July. It must be mass hysteria around your
placeon those days. Fadedglory, you make a decent point about the
costs of vandlism/pranks etc. However, the point of the article is that the
kids were overcharged. Do we really want to label these kid prankters as
felons? Charge them with a misdemeanor and fine them and give them community
service. But jail time, felony. Please...
To the apologists:You'd be talking differently, if your home
was one of those targeted ... and you'd be really angry if you'd have
caught that chemical bomb in your face, blinding you.You say
"they are charged for what might have been". So let's let the
shoe bomber out of jial, and how about the Times Square inept bomber. After
all, their devices didn't really hurt anyone, either..
@UnnbiasedThat's what will end up happening.The game city prosecutors
and the police play is to overcharge so you don't bother to fight it and
take a plea deal instead. So let's say that the police pulled someone over
who had a small amount drugs in there car. No question, that's illegal, but
instead of charging them with just possesion, they will say that it's
intent to distribute because they have a pack of cigaretts with the plastic wrap
on the bottom that you could put drugs in(this actually happened to a friend).
Now that will never hold up in court, but it might discourage you from fighting
the charge because instead of being charged with a crime that carries a fine and
community service, your charged with a felony were you could get 5-15 years in
prison. So you take the plea deal. It saves the prosecutor money, and allows
them to get convictions on questionable evidence. That's why I personally
fight any court action, including speeding tickets.
Unbiased121They will not serve one day in jail, sorry sukiyhtaky.
They will however enter into a plea and abeyance agreement with the court, pay
restitution or whatever and then move on. And by the way there is a difference
between loud fireworks in the middle of a street during the 4th and 24th that
end at a certain time and these devices in question which can be quite nasty.
You can "undercharge" this case all you want , all I'm saying there
is an impact to the community which can be quite unsettling for some and
expensive to others who have suffered damage. Finally, the attorney in this case
,while perhaps trying to help his clients through media attention, is only going
to make matters worse. And by the way unbiased, I have been to too many
er's and burn units to lighten up even if it was only a prank!
These sound like good kids that made a stupid mistake, but they got caught.I don't buy the defense's arguments here. It does not matter
how famous they are, the law still applies the same. This is an opportunity to
send the right message to teens.Let's not waste this away.
The parents ought to be ashamed...obviously, the involved teens have way too
much time on their hands...additionally, the fact remains someone could have
been seriously injured.....the charges are correct and just.
Who was responsible for leveling those charges?? What an absolute display of
poor decision making. If guidelines dictate certain charges than think about the
purpose of the charges. Too many people are taught to follow without thinking.
Whoever heard of a young women winning her hometown beauty contest, then going
out with friends to enjoy a night of bomb throwing entertainment?This
story is almost to strange to believe.Best that she and her buddies learn
there are consequences for such peculiar, dangerous, and thoughtless
behavior.Is community service the correct punishment? Serving as
"Miss Riverton" should be the ultimate in community service for
A similar "prank" took place in my neighborhood on the 4th of July.
Someone placed bombs identical to the ones described in this situation in
several mailboxes all around our area. When they exploded, they blew some of
the mailboxes to pieces. They blew off the doors or blew out the back. The
police were called and failed to find any helpful evidence leading to arrest or
prosecution. It cost at least 12 homeowners $20 each for new
mailboxes. My neighbor is in his 70's and on a fixed income. He could
hardly afford the price. I bought his when I bought mine, too. It
was not a "harmless prank." I am glad no one was hurt, but I
didn't think it was funny. I still don't. I don't feel safe in
my own home anymore. What will they blow up next?I am glad that the
offenders in Riverton got caught. I hope they learn their lesson.I
would rather see this type of behavior stopped early than let it progress to the
point that it crosses the line into REAL felony territory.
I agree overcharged. However, seeing as how one young lady is a pageant queen
and one young man is a star player and super student. I would like to see them
have to perform some community service. I think they should have to go to high
schools and give presentations on the dangers of "pranking" Prosecutors
could sentence them to this as a warning to others that these kinds of pranks
will be dealt with more seriously than toilet papering the trees. Maybe they
could give the boy a sentence that would delay his church service a few months
so that he can really feel the pain about his dumb choice as well. I think these
four need to have the dumb worked out of them, as my grandpa used to say.
Its obviously a law enforcement excessive force show of power over the rights of
the citizens of this state and local governemnt. The charges of these noise
devices to be bombs is very over stated and not at all designed or intended to
do harm.There is a whole lot of excessive everything in this
criminal charges, stupidity in the law enforcement being a major deficit to the
community. By the book is overkill and overreaction and the only ordinance they
may have violated is a noise ordinance.There is no justification to
negotiate the charges down for conviction and the lawyers should not consider
any negotiations with the prosecutor or police. Let the people and the courts,
and jury use some civil standards to diminish this excessive power law
enforcement thinks they have.Federal laws and federal crimes are not
relevant or applicable to prankster noise making devices, especially when no
explosive materials were used and this was merely a home made science project
demonstration of physics and chemistry education.
For those who think the charges were too extreme, would you be the same ones who
cry foul when they let these kids off easy because she was Miss Riverton or
because he had his mission call?Would you think it right for someone to be
let go for speeding because he pulled out his temple recommend and showed it to
the officer?Would you feel the same way if the police could not bring
felony charges to gang members in the same situation? (Sorry, the bombs did not
injure anyone so we can only charge him with a misdemeanor.) There is a
ruling on the books right now that you cannot charge an illegal alien with
aggravated ID theft unless you can prove that he knew the ID belonged to a real
person. So many loopholes. So many unintended consequences.The judge
will sort it out in this case. Sorry kids for this little detour in your lives,
but you brought it on yourselves. That 4.0 doesn't mean you don't have
a few gaps in your education.
I remember an old western with John Wayne (Chance) and Dean Martin (Dude) as a
Sheriff and Deputy. Dude (Martin) played a drunk and his struggle caused him to
lose his focus one day. Dude's neglect almost cost the loss of lives and
law and order. Dude said, "I'm sorry". Chance (Wayne) gives this
classic line, "Sorry don't get it done, Dude". That's what we
have in these pranks. If someone gets hurt, or loses a life or an eye, Sorry
don't get it done Dude. I told my kids that so many times, hoping they
would never pull these stupid pranks. And to the best of my knowledge, it
worked. I never even toilet papered a house when I was growing up, because I
understood that it was disrespectful of others and someone would have to clean
up my mess.
I hope they aren't too hard on these kids. It really was just a prank
albeit a REALLY stupid one. I don't think they meant any harm. It was
just really stupid and I think they know that now.
This is absolutely a felony. We cannot tolerate youths throwing bombs at people
and their property.
If they are inclined to this sort of activity, and having been caught at it, get
off easy, then watch out. They will receive the message that anything can be
"mitigated" and so nothing will be off limits.I do realize
there might be differences in opinion about what constitutes getting off easy
but what matters is that the system is harsh enough to make these kids think it
is not easy but not so hard to have a negative impact that cannot be overcome.
After all the goal is to make them aware of the need to change behaviour and
should not make it impossible for the subsequent change to have no meaning in
the rest of their lives. I so hope the judge is able to find that position and
apply it successfully. I also hope the other adults in their lives are properly
motivated to encourage the requisite behaviour change.
These kids made bombs and then detonated them. They should be charged with that
crime. If they wish to plea bargain that down because of their lack of criminal
history, then fine. But they shouldn't get off just because they're
young. Back when I was a kid I knew it was illegal to make an explosive device.
I don't know why these kids are saying that they didn't know what the
consequences could be.
These people are ruining the lives of these kids for drama, nothing more.
Sacrifices to the god of sensationalism. This same prank goes on all
over the world. Look up bathroom cleaner bomb on youtube. These are not bombs
but noisemakers. Some of these comments are so misinformed and
judgmental I seriously worry about your chances at the pearly gates. Judge as
you will be judged, harshly.
Unfair.If I was a kid again, I'd be in jail.
I can't even imagine where a lot of us would be if we had been charged for
all the foolish acts we participated in during our youth.. Perhaps these kids
are arrogant as alluded to in previous comments but that doesn't mean a
felony is in order.This should be a lesson learned and send them on their
way... no need to make Mt Everest out of a crack in the sidewalk...
wrap this up legally, and in a year let the kid consider applying for the
privilege of serving his LDS mission again when he's demonstrated some
maturity. I know kids who did less who weren't allowed to go.
It is just that simple, when "You play -You pay". Then, don't blame
others for your stupid choices. There is no excuse for acts of vandalism.