It will be interesting to see if the Mormon church ever gives the women the
priesthood.Never you say?Some Mormon prophets said that
African Americans would never be given the priesthood.But we
don't like to talk about Mormon prophets being wrong now do we?
It all sounds condescending and chauvinistic rationalization to maintain
patriarch superiority .
"Women are essential to the Lord's work, Elder Ballard says"Well, we know they are essential to having families. But, they
don't seem to be needed in the church hierarchy as evidenced by the fact
that there are none there. The auxiliary presidencies are not considered part
of the priesthood hierarchy.Elder Ballard seems to say that no one
knows why women are not ordained to the Priesthood. I should think he would
know. Unless it stems from the leadership demonstrated in the Bible... where
Christ was male as was all of his Apostles... as well as the custom of all
religious leadership from Christ's time til today (with few exceptions).
Even God Himself is male. Females seem to be getting a bum rap.On
the other hand, if I were female (wait, I am female) I wouldn't be a bit
put out about not being privileged to be in the Priesthood.
Essential to the Lord's work... as long as they toe the line and obey the
We talk about accepting people decisions about their own lives and yet acidic
non members/inactive members (active but angry members) try to convince LDS
women how trapped we are. Your comments are condescending and ignorant.
It's really annoying when people tell you how unhappy you are when you
aren't. Non believers hate that about zealous members of any Christian
faith. Why don't you people lead by example and trust LDS women are happy
NOT having the priesthood and don't feel we have to "toe the line and
obey" (what an old and tired comment)?
“Most everyone has family or friends who have been caught up in various,
troubling contemporary social issues,” he said. “Arguing about the
issues generally does not bring any resolution and, in fact, can create
contention. There are some questions about the church's position on
sensitive issues that are hard to answer to anyone’s satisfaction.
However, when we seek the Lord in prayer about how to feel and what to do in
these situations, the impression comes: Do you believe in Jesus Christ and do
you follow him and the Father?”Enough said.Miss
Piggie:Women don't get a bum rap. We are all spirit children of
heavenly parents (Read 2nd paragraph in The Family - A Proclamation to the
World. In other words, children of a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother).Also, read Genesis 2:18-24 in the Bible. Soon after Adam and Eve were
created, Adam said (Verse 24): "Therefore shall a man leave his father and
his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."Apparently Adam had a Heavenly Mother as well, or else how could he
leave her? See now? Women are divine.
tow, not "toe" :) unless it means step on the line with our toe, or
drag our toe across the line, or draw a new line with our toe....
Jeanie, actually, "toe" the line is correct.
@jeanieToe the line means to obey the rules exactly.Examples include
to toe the starting line or remaining behind the line on a tennis serve.In
military marching exercises the soldiers would literally line up straight by
"toeing the line."Perhaps you have done too much boating.
Miss Piggie,Auxiliaries are not, strictly speaking, part of the
priesthood but all authority flows therefrom. The Relief Society President
serves as a Bishop’s right arm. She knows a lot of the struggles is every
bit as essential as the High Priest Group Leader and the Elder’s Quorum
President. Young Women’s Presidents are as essential as the Young
Men’s Presidents. Is Primary important? Only if the rising generation
is.Yes, part of this is Biblical. But women were in Christ’s
inner circle. They remain so in the Church today.A ScientistIs that how it works in your house? I know a few members who think this
way. In my experience they have not been the leaders. My experience has been
that the more involved in leadership the less (men or women) understand this to
be the proper interaction of men and women and the more there is a fully
Shuzzie53Just looked it up, your right. Thanks.
Folks, whatever your feelings on female ordination, can we at least try to be
civil? Personal attacks and strawmen arguments never lead to progress. If you
really want to dialogue, share your desires for what you think is best. Then
spend at least as much time listening to others' desires.Personally, I desire ordination for all. I love the priesthood ordinances and
want my wife, daughters, mother and sisters to be involved in those with me. I
am impatient by nature. But I find encouragement from Elder Ballard's
remark that he does not know why the current restriction is in place. That is a
much better view than what occurred with the racial restriction on priesthood -
which we justified with folklore we now find embarrasing. I also find
encouraging the church's recent statement that referred to the gender
restriction as a "practice" and referred to equality as a
"doctrine." Other practices have changed - such as polygamy and racial
restrictions on the priesthood. I hope and pray for the day when this practice
will also change and my wife's hands can find equal room with mine in
blessing our children.
Say No to BO-Sadly I am not a boater, just ignorant of that old phrase....yet still very happy to be a non-priesthood holding, LDS woman. :)
The headline distracts from Elder Ballard's message. As we can see by the
tremendous influence and success the young women are having in missionary work,
the unique female brain with it's ability to focus on many things and
multi-process is different than the male, and the resultant abilities are
irreplaceable. We need each other and compliment each other, it is up to us both
to utilize one another's strengths to the highest ability. Good leaders do,
without pandering or dismissing opinions (on either side).
Man cannot be alone.But woman can.Men are less secure.And
I'm a man.
Yes, Elder Ballard, I do believe in Jesus Christ and I do follow him and the
Father. For this reason, I believe that all God’s children must have the
ability to exercise the priesthood. Mormonism is unique, because we do not see
our Eternal goal as “getting to a place called heaven.” Mormonism is
about becoming. Heaven is not a place. Rather, heaven is what we become. To
become like Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father, and Heavenly Mother, we must be able
to work through, and learn to understand, all that They went through. Priesthood
is integral to this process. For this reason, it is critical to the development
of my daughter, my granddaughter, and all women in the Church that they be able
to hold and exercise the priesthood.
Women in America still get paid less than men while doing exactly the same work.
If the Church really values women, they should spend the same money they spent
during the Proposition 8 issue in California to correct this disparate treatment
of women in America. Words in support of women are shallow compared to the
actions needed to support the words.
If God is male and his wife is female, and we assume neither have changed sexes
during their existence, wouldn't it be more accurate to assume that gender
is an earlier concept than God's plan?
I agree with Brother Ballard..women are essentialfor everything.I am so glad
that they are so nice and helpful. They are pretty and smell nice too
Women do have leadership opportunities in the church... over other women. We are
excluded from callings that don't require the priesthood such as ward clerk
or sunday school presidency in which we would have some authority over men.
Until Non LDS people sit in LDS church Sunday School, Relief Society, Elders
Quorum, etc. classes and hear about the places Mormons believe they are headed
to after death; until people study and delve into the nitty gritty of Mormon
polygamy: until people study these two, put them together and think about
it....the honest truth of the role of women in the LDS Church will never be
1st Corinthians 12:14-18:14 For the body is not one member, but
many.15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not
of the body; is it therefore not of the body?16 And if the ear shall
say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the
body?17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If
the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?18 But now hath God
set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.So yes, women are essential to the Lord's work. It may not be in the
manner they think they are essential, or the manner they want to help in the
work, but it is in the manner that the Lord has set them (read verse 18 above
@Christopher B"It will be interesting to see if the Mormon church ever
gives the women the priesthood.Never you say?"One
could say the same about your church...
"There are some questions about the church's position on sensitive
issues that are hard to answer to anyone’s satisfaction. However, when we
seek the Lord in prayer about how to feel and what to do in these situations,
the impression comes: Do you believe in Jesus Christ and do you follow him and
the Father?"How does having a testimony of Jesus Christ and a
willingness to follow him and the Father relate to blindly trusting policy
decisions made by his well-intentioned, but fallible servants? There's an
important distinction to be made here. If questions about the Church's
position on sensitive issues are hard to answer to anyone's satisfaction,
isn't it possible that it's because they're wrong?
@MJohnsonKeep in mind that the decision of who receives the
priesthood is not a "policy" decision. Nor is the Church's stance
on gay marriage a "policy" decision. I think Elder Ballard's point
is that there will be some aspects of the church that people will inherently
disagree with, but that focusing on those things is "missing the mark"
so to speak. You can get hung up on the minutiae of church administration, or
you can take a step back and evaluate your life in terms of your testimony and
commitment to the gospel / Jesus Christ / God.Another thing to keep
in mind is that the doctrines of the gospel aren't always popular. If
policy decisions or doctrines were left to a popularity vote, we wouldn't
be too different from other churches, would we? So it doesn't necessarily
mean those policies or doctrines are wrong."For my thoughts are
not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord." --Isaiah
The lord needs the women for his work because he's busy fixing sporting
events and he doesn't do a thing in the kitchen.
"When men and women go to the temple, they are both endowed with the same
power, which is by definition priesthood power." Now that is a very helpful
sentence. I hope that is a verbatim quote. I will certainly be using it if it
is . . .
If God is a male and his wife is a female it sort of gives another meaning to
Gen 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
If women don't have the priesthood then why do they give their husband a
blessing by the laying on of hands in the calling and election made sure
ceremony? Just curious.
@Blue AZ CougarI disagree that the priesthood being withheld from
women is more than a policy decision, but that's irrelevant. The Brethren
can be and historically have been wrong on doctrinal matters as well. The folk
doctrines propagated by the 1st Presidency to justify the Priesthood and Temple
Ban are a perfect example. Also, why are strengthening one's
testimony and discussing areas where the Church has room for improvement
mutually exclusive? God has blessed His children with a remarkable ability to
multitask. I agree that God's ways aren't our ways, and I
agree that just because something is unpopular doesn't mean that it's
wrong. However, I also believe that the Brethren are quite fallible, and
it's extremely dangerous to conflate every decision made by our leaders
with the mind and will of the Lord. We have the moral responsibility to
prayerfully investigate the direction we receive from our leaders in the
Church."If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by
investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed." -J. Reuben
Also germane to this discussion:“What a pity it would be if we
were led by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more
afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will
not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they
settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in
the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would
thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they
could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of
Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the
whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking
in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation
continually.” -Brigham Young
@MJohnsonThanks for your viewpoints, I appreciate the civil
dialogue. Two thoughts I wanted to share:1) The feelings of
inferiority amongst the women of the church stem from (a) women taking offense
where offense is not intended, and (b) men not doing a very good job at
understanding and oftentimes respecting the viewpoints of women. It takes work
on both sides. What message do we as men send to our wives when we leave the
room during general conference whenever a woman gets up to speak? Men can and
should do better.2) In a world that inherently and blatantly
diminishes the value of motherhood and women in general, we would do well to
read the proclamation on the family to remind ourselves of the divine nature of
women, men, and families in the plan of salvation. We need that reality check
every once in a while to remind ourselves that the roles outlined by God for men
and women are different than how those roles are defined in our society.
BigBudda had the best comment. Remember the first to see Christ after his
ressurection was a woman. Too many people don't read or understand the full
article before making a comment. What he said was both men an women are
involved to complete the project. Each have different jobs and I am glad for my
Christopher B,"Some Mormon prophets said that African Americans
would never be given the priesthood."I will have to read that
for myself. Can you site a reference on that assertion?
This issue boils down to a few main points. 1. Do you believe that the LDS
Church is led by a prophet of God? 2. Do you believe that God is in charge? 3.
Do you understand that God is not "practicing" on us? He has created
worlds and done all of this before. 4. Do you believe that God knew us before
this life and assigned roles to men and women based on divine knowledge? 5. Do
you understand what God is really like? (See Lectures on Faith #3). Many of these "women and the priesthood" arguments come about because
people do not understand the doctrine, just as Pres. Packer has said over and
RE: zoar63, If God is a male and his wife is a female it sort of gives another
meaning to, Gen 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness:" context,Verse.1:27, So God created man in his own *image,
in the *image of God created he him; Male and Female created he them.
figuratively ,*God is Spirit (John 4:24),and is everywhere, Ps. 139:7-10, Jer.
23:24. RE: birder, See Lectures on Faith Q. What is the Father? A.
He is a personage of glory and of power. (5:2.). What is the son? First, he is
a personage of tabernacle.Re; 1.96 Standard Deviations( Gen 2:24):
"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave
unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."Foretelling what
would be done in all succeeding ages ,marriagewas now instituted by God.
i.e.,Mt 19:5 (Jesus), ‘For this reason a man will leave his
father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one
Dear Elder Ballard, I am an LDS woman who has attended church nearly every week
of my whole life, paid a full tithe since my first job as a teenager, gone on a
mission, married in the temple, and held many of the callings that are open to
women in the church (as you well know, there are many, many more I am banned
from because of my sex). I have heard speeches like this one my whole life, and
they do not make me feel better about the priesthood ban against women, so I am
asking God to change this. This Monday, I am going to join women across the
nation in a day of fasting and prayer for the ordination of women. I am also
appealing to you, Elder Ballard. Please reconsider this ban. I am worthy tp be
an Elder in the church, and I would use my priesthood to serve my church, family
and community if given the chance.
@April YI hope you do not take offense at my comment -- I can assure
you none is intended. I understand your feelings (my wife has, to some extent,
the same feelings). Please let me share a few thoughts with you:1)
The church does not have a "priesthood ban" on women. That implies that
we know God's will is to give the priesthood to women, but we refuse to do
it. That is not the case. The church does not makes that call, Heavenly Father
does. As far as I can tell, there has never been a time in the scriptures when
a woman was ordained to the priesthood. Jesus Christ never ordained a woman to
the priesthood or called a woman as an apostle. It has nothing to do with
worthiness, it has everything to do with the divine roles Heavenly Father has
appointed for his sons and daughters.2) Please read Articles of
Faith 1:5.3) Please check out the article "Mormonism and gender
issues/Women/Role in the Church/Priesthood" on the FAIR Wiki site. This is
an excellent article.4) Please read 3 Nephi 11:29 and D&C
Dear Blue AZ Cougar, Thank you for your concern. I read the
scriptures and article you suggested. I am a little confused about why you
referred me to read scriptures about contention. i don't think that
offering women the priesthood would result in contention, nor do I think it
contentious to fast and pray about women's ordination and ask apostles to
consider it.Since you seem like a person who appreciates scriptures,
I would like to recommend some readings for you:Acts 10 (In a
vision, the Lord tells Peter to expand the priesthood to demographics that Jesus
never personally ordained.)Romans 16 (Paul praises the deacon Pheobe
and the apostle Junia)Nauvoo Relief Society Minute Book within the
Joseph Smith Papers: (Under Joseph Smith's direction, Sarah Cleveland and
Elizabeth Whitney were ordained. Emma Smith was set apart without an ordination.
joseph Smith explained that she was previously ordained.)If you
would like more scholarly articles on the subject, you might try the resources
section of the ordain women site.
RE: April Y, offering women the priesthood.The Aaronic or Levitical
priesthood ended with the death of Christ. The entire function ,and the term
Cohen means, ’one who stands up for another, and mediate the cause.”
Before the Great Sacrifice ,the priest had to stand in the gap for the people
and offer animal sacrifices. Do Mormons still carry out this function. No!
Therefore their office is insignificant. Hebrews 7:23-25 ..
because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able
to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to
intercede for them. If Jesus is not human, he cannot continue to offer
intercession for Christians as high priest. Priesthood
authority, In(D&C 110: 1-16) Elias and Elijah appear to JS, but in the
Bible they are the same person. The KJV translators attempted to transliterate
Elijah to Elias because there isn’t a Greek character for the English
letter J.To avoid confusion, modern translations: NIV, NJKV, NASB
and the Catholic Bible have Elijah instead of Elias in(Mt 11:14,; Luke 1:17)JS
@April,I have no doubt that you or nearly any woman would do well serving
with the Priesthood. That's not the point. The Lord has made His decision
on who bears His Priesthood and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether you
could do the job. We each have our duties and roles, ordained by God. I accept
that. I do take pause with your fast and prayer to get the Lord to change His
mind. Do we not sustain the Prophet as the only one who can receive revelation
for the whole Church? If there is a change to be made, wouldn't it be
through the Prophet, not a member or group of members claiming revelation for
the Church? Think about it for a moment, and ask yourself if this is what you
seek and if so, who would your answer come from......
From the Doctrine and Covenants Section 131:1,2....In order to
obtain the highest.... degree of Glory in the Celestial Kingdom,... a man/woman
must enter into the order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting
covenant of marriage.]I have personally seen many LDS women enter
into this order of the Priesthood...endowing them with opportunity to become
crowned with Glory, immortality and eternal lives... with everlasting dominion
and power.Where else, other than in LDS Temples, can a woman go to receive
this matchless Priesthood Power that extends beyond the grave?
@Twin Lights:"The Relief Society President serves as a Bishop’s
right arm."No, no. His two counselors are his right (and left)
arms."She knows a lot of the struggles is every bit as essential
as the High Priest Group Leader and the Elder’s Quorum President."She is essential basically because of lax H. Teachers."Young Women’s Presidents are as essential as the Young Men’s
Presidents. Is Primary important? Only if the rising generation is."True, but we're not talking about hierarchy here, are we?"But women were in Christ’s inner circle."What?
They don't seem to have any official calling in the early Church."They remain so in the Church today."I guess then, that
the Priesthood is not that essential in doing the work.
It is ironic with the low status of women in that day that Jesus chose to appear
to Mary and the other women, and that the first Christian preachers of the
resurrection were not men, but women. Jesus did not first appear to the
"vicar" of the church, Peter, or even to the beloved disciple. He
appeared to Mary and the women who followed him and served him. The culture of
Israel at the time of Christ was undeniably patriarchal. Women were often
regarded as mere possessions. Aside from opening himself to charges of
immorality if women had been among the twelve, I suspect a woman’s
testimony about Jesus’ resurrection would have been given little credence.
There were many women who exhibited leadership in both the Old and New
Testaments...but unfortunately for those who wish for more equality within their
own Church sphere today usually end up with inequality because of antiquated
views of women passed down by patriarchal Church leaderships since the time of
Jesus. Why would any Church who follows Jesus show favoritism toward males when
Jesus appeared not to? Apparently Jesus trusted that women were capable of being
disciples or so it seems!