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Commentary: Independent BYU just needs wins to return to nation's elite

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  • AntiSNOT Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 7:45 p.m.

    Wow... If this article doesn't bring out the little brother syndrome from Ute county, er, uhm, I mean Ute nation, I don't know what will... Great article, but this is sure to rub a few inferiority complexes around here the wrong way.

    Great commentary! Queue the angry Ute trolls in 3...2...1...

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 8:12 p.m.

    Blast Off!

    Typical byu...Living in the past.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Aug. 18, 2013 8:19 p.m.

    Again I ask you this: If independence is where it's at, why isn't Alabama independent?

  • Brother Benjamin Franklin Orem, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 8:20 p.m.

    BYU is on its way to a fun year, but they are not being smart if they think they can go through this schedule undefeated.

  • Chad31 IDAHO FALLS, ID
    Aug. 18, 2013 8:26 p.m.

    Brave Sir Robin: because they have a regional fan base. Independence fits BYU nicely... Not all colleges are the same.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Aug. 18, 2013 8:28 p.m.

    "Not to make this a comparison between BYU and the University of Utah, but since Edwards retired in 2000, BYU has finished ranked in the Top 25 six times. That’s only one less ranked finish than Utah has in its entire history."

    I would like to dedicate this quote to Chris B.

    Dear Brave Sir Robin,

    Alabama is not an independent because they do not have a national following. Religion allows BYU and Notre Dame to go independent. The Military academies can also go independent because of a built in national following from our vets. No institution not connected to an organization that knows no boundaries could possibly go independent.

    Dear ekute,

    BYU's future looks pretty bright. This football team should be significantly better than last years. The basketball team has an amazing future in the pipeline with Lone Peak stars in the pipeline.

  • Sambonethegreat Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 9:11 p.m.

    "and it’s easy to see why the Cougar faithful are feeling optimistic about the direction of the program."

    This seems just a tad suspect to me. Bronco fired his entire offensive staff from last season. And if the Cougars lose to the Utes again, well...

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is a make it or break year for the Cougs. If they don't win at least 2 of the marquee match-ups this season (including the Utes), I would be concerned about the long-term viability of independence.

    Merely playing BCS teams doesn't garner respect IMO.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    Aug. 18, 2013 9:15 p.m.

    ekute
    Layton, UT

    "Typical byu...Living in the past."

    Where do Utes live?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 9:19 p.m.

    Y Grad / Y Dad,

    In the PAC12.

  • idaho cougar fan Twin Falls, ID
    Aug. 18, 2013 9:21 p.m.

    This article is spot on. As a Cougar fan what will help BYU more than anything will be to win games. If they win, recruiting will take care of itself and BYU will gain national attention. This article also shows what I've been telling Ute fans for years, BYU is still and will always be the alpha dog program in the state of Utah. BYU is a rib-eye and Utah is a tube steak. If you take these last 13 years in perspective, BYU has had (for BYU standards) a relatively average 13 years. Utah on the other hand is in their "golden age". BYU has still been ranked in the top 25 more than Utah has. Don't give me strength of schedule crap either, BYU has not ended in the top 25 in their first 2 years of independence. They did this while in the same conference as Utah was in. Reality can be hard to swallow for some Ute fans.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 18, 2013 9:24 p.m.

    In the hours to come...

    ute trolls will flock to this article to remind BYU fans that they are better, belong to a "big boy" conference, and have beaten BYU three times.

    Yet not once, will the ute trolls accept any part of this article, even though it has all been said on these boards a hundred times...

    BYU is better in every way but one. the u beat BYU last year.

    In a few weeks, you won't have that any more either.

    So give it all you got...

    it will be over soon and you won't have anything to lord over BYU fans.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 9:47 p.m.

    BYU has the perfect line-up of soft/medium soft then hard opponents that the team will hopefully handle the schedule well. I fully expect a national ranking, two wins over the big four on the schedule (ND, WI, Boise and Texas), finally beating the pesky Utes and a bowl win. 11-2 should be top 15 this year and good enough to build 2014 into a serious run at making the playoffs. If BYU manages 13-0, which is highly improbable, it might be enough to get to the championship this year.

    How I rank the games in order of difficulty. Utah is sixth most difficult because USU is on the road and the first four teams are likely ranked when BYU plays them.

    1 Wisconsin
    2 ND
    3 Texas
    4 Boise State
    5 USU
    6 Utah
    7 Virginia
    8 Georgia Tech
    9 Middle TN State
    10 Nevada
    11 Houston
    12 Idaho State

    BYU has byes before Utah and Wisconsin. They play Idaho State before ND. Boise State and Texas are the only highly difficult game that BYU won't have extra time to prepare for. I love Independence scheduling!! Can't wait to see the uptempo offense!

  • sweetnewss Orem, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 9:50 p.m.

    @STuFOO no we won't remind you that we have beaten you three times, we'll remind you we've won 8 of the last 11.

    No question byu was the dominant team of the 80s and 90s and had a great run. If not, it wouldn't have felt so good for us utes to finally have our turn to dominate our rival for the last decade.

    We'll see what the next decade brings. Both teams are at pivotal moments. They have chances to take big steps forward or big steps backwards. Truth be told, the last couple years have just shed light on the fact that both programs' success and accolades were inflated by weak schedules. It will be exciting to see if either team can take the step to truly join the nations' elite programs.

  • djcoug Saratoga springs, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 9:53 p.m.

    ekute,

    At the *bottom* of the pac12. Fixed that for you.

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    Aug. 18, 2013 10:06 p.m.

    "we won't remind you that we have beaten you three times, we'll remind you we've won 8 of the last 11."

    I guess you have to hang on to whatever stat works for you. The BYU/Utah game is fun, but only one game a year at most.

    What works for me is if it was a choice of beating the utes or going to a bowl game, I would choose bowling every time! Last EIGHT years in a row! Go Cougars!

  • Todd_i Midway, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 10:25 p.m.

    As a BYU fan I'm trilled to see Utah do well, especially since their promotion. A good performance By Utah is good for BYU. I must say independence concerns me a little because of conference realignments that might forever box BYU out. But, when Utah left the MWC BYU didn't have a choice and it seems that it is heading in a good direction. So for now, I'm happy to see BYU in a tough schedule and hope they are the real deal this year.

  • PP Eagle Mountain, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 10:25 p.m.

    ekute

    In the PAC12.
    ------------------

    Every Home needs a doormat.

  • sweetnewss Orem, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 10:31 p.m.

    @kralon I agree with you, I would take bowl game as well as that is more of a reflection of the season as a whole; however, I don't think anyone would question the fact that if utah would have had byu's schedule they would have been in a bowl game last year and if byu had utah's schedule they would have been 5-7 or worse. If both teams had been in the mwc, they would have won 9 or 10 games. For the first time in their histories, the teams are finally playing respectable schedules, it will be interesting to see how they handle it. If I were a byu fan I would not be super optimistic, seeing how utah has struggled and knowing that utah has had the better program recently.

    That being said byu still has 4 or 5 built in wins this year, and while much is being made of their schedule it is still average when compared to other bcs teams, so going to a bowl game won't be a problem. For utah it could be tough. 9 of their 12 opponents are ranked or received votes in the ap poll.

  • JoeWatIII Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 10:38 p.m.

    Earth to everyone, winning games in sports IS WHAT MATTERS? That is why this is such a ridiculous article, all he is doing is stating a given fact and using it for BYU. Same article could have been written for Utah, or almost any other team in the NCAA. Cookie cutter article with no insight...

  • ManInTheMiddle SANDY, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 10:55 p.m.

    If being in a conference is so great then why doesn't Notre Dame play football in a conference?

    I love our independence. I love traveling to different places each year, seeing different stadiums, eating at different restaurants and playing at different golf courses while I'm there.

    I do not however love the WCC - can't wait until we can get out of there. Let's hope the Big 12 eventually invites us - you can still play golf in December in Texas:)

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 18, 2013 11:22 p.m.

    Patting yourself on the back for an end-of-season top 25 ranking means you are fooling yourself about your football program. For an accurate assessment, look at the last poll of the regular season. That is the poll which determines if you go to a BCS bowl or participate in next year's playoff. In the modern era of football (that's 1998, not 1950), anything beyond the top 16 is meaningless.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Aug. 18, 2013 11:31 p.m.

    The Rock
    Federal Way, WA said:

    "Dear Brave Sir Robin,

    Alabama is not an independent because they do not have a national following. Religion allows BYU and Notre Dame to go independent. The Military academies can also go independent because of a built in national following from our vets. No institution not connected to an organization that knows no boundaries could possibly go independent."

    National following has nothing to do with being independent. Just ask Idaho, New Mexico State and Old Dominion. If you take TV viewers by game. There are 42 schools with a higher national following than BYU.

    Any time a school wins a national football title, it becomes a national following. Don't believe me? just look at the SEC. And also look at merchandise sales. BYU is not even on the radar compared to schools like Texas, Ohio St, Duke, USC, Michigan, Alabama and more.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:06 a.m.

    Kind of funny that Utes still talk about bowls and being in the PAC 12 Conference. They won't see any bowls because every school still has to earn it and not every PAC 12 school will qualify. Remember, Utah was picked 5th of 6 teams in their division....some great honor!

    Basement Dwellers scream the loudest about the bowls their conference plays even though they stay home and watch on TV.

    LOL!!

  • Gerald Wiltson Ogden, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:15 a.m.

    BYU football independence is great, and BYU just needs to win now.

    Most BYU fans feel that the West Coast Conference is an embarrassment and obviously inferior to the Mountain West Conference though (only basketball matters). I want to the LMU vs BYU game in Los Angeles while on business last season. The "gym" was empty, and felt like attending a bottom tier high school game. It would be nice if BYU basketball was in a decent conference....but I guess that is the price of independence. Gonzaga fans I've spoke with said they wish they too were out of the WCC.

  • Harold Skill Ogden, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:18 a.m.

    "regarded by many as a major program in terms of prestige and reputation but connected at the hip to a mid-major conference"

    BYU still has that with basketball. We are a major program, connected to the hip of the West Coast Conference.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:37 a.m.

    @ ManInTheMiddle

    "If being in a conference is so great then why doesn't Notre Dame play football in a conference?"

    Maybe because Notre Dame has been independent since the beginning of their football history and that's their tradition! BYU doesn't have a history of being independent, the Cougies decided a couple years ago they wanted to be like Notre Dame aka "Notre Dame of the west". Notre Dame doesn't want to join a conference because they will get the same benefits as being in a BCS conference. Plus they want to stay with their tradition. BYU does NOT have those same benefits! The Cougies will still be treated as a mid-major school as an independent.

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:48 a.m.

    "Same article could have been written for Utah, or almost any other team in the NCAA. Cookie cutter article with no insight.."

    Really? For instance, how many teams won 22 conference championships from 1974 through 2010 (BYU's last conference season)? Oh wait, no one else in the entire nation which is the whole point that WAC and MWC championships did not mean as much to BYU. It was time to move on and BYU had talked about turning independent for at least a few years. How many other teams in the nation had reached a point where a conference championship had so little meaning?

    BYU now has a much better game schedule and the article is spot on that now BYU needs to win more games (I will admit that is something that could be written about Utah!).

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:04 a.m.

    @ djcoug

    "At the *bottom* of the pac12. Fixed that for you"

    Being in the "bottom of the Pac-12" is still better than being "lost in independence".

    BYU as an independent is like a ship without a rudder. The Cougies will load up their schedules with BCS schools. But no matter how many games they win (6, 8, 10, 11 games) they'll wind up in the same place every year (irrelevant third tier bowl games).

    Utah in the Pac-12 can play for something far beyond what BYU can even dream of as an independent (Rose Bowl, National Championships, ect). But to get there, Utah has to win their conference which is a tough task for anyone in a BCS conference. But the team that does win it's conference is rewarded greatly! Utah will get there one day!

  • idaho cougar fan Twin Falls, ID
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:06 a.m.

    Poll's are a measure of overall success. During the BCS era, yes your team needed to be in the top 16. But I would still rather be 25 then 50 or 120. I also like the idea of playing anybody, anywhere and let the chips fall where they may. If I were a betting man, the chances of the Cougars going to a big bowl in the new system are better than the Utes chances. Neither are good, but BYU in the next 10 years has about a 1% chance of making it, while Utah will have maybe a .1%. Utah has to win the South division (once every 8 years tops, see WSU, ASU, Cal, OSU, AZ), then beat the champ of the North division (once maybe every other time in the Pac 12 championship game at best). That is once every 16 years. BYU would have a couple of good teams during that time. Simple math for Utah. If your name is not UW, OU, Stanford, USC or UCLA, chances of winning Pac 12 are slim!

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:14 a.m.

    @ Steven S. Jarvis

    I respect your opinion on how you ranked BYU's schedule this year. Here's how I ranked Utah's games according to toughness and importance!

    1. Oregon
    2. Stanford
    3. USC
    4. Arizona State
    5. Arizona
    6. UCLA
    7. Oregon State
    8. Colorado
    9. Washington State
    10. Utah State
    11. BYU
    12. Weber State

    I ranked this because Utah has 9 games (conference games) which are far more important than non-conference games. I ranked USU ahead of BYU because the Aggies beat us last year and it's payback. BYU is below the Aggies because the Utes seem to beat BYU every year. Weber State is at the bottom for obvious reasons.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Aug. 19, 2013 6:16 a.m.

    There's always a lot of hope this time of year (but to be fair, it's the same for every team). I only use one success measure for BYU: to go to and win a BCS bowl. Utah, TCU and Boise State have done it each two times. Until we do that, it's all talk. Sure, it would be nice to beat Utah (actually, to annihilate them) but we have to put a whole season together. If we can just get an offense to match the kind of defense we had last year, I think we could make it.

  • BigCougFan Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 6:45 a.m.

    ekute

    "Typical byu...Living in the past."

    Where do Utes live?



    Y Grad / Y Dad,

    "In the PAC12."

    Let me add..... In the basement of the Pac12.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Aug. 19, 2013 6:49 a.m.

    @sweetnewss - I agree that the next couple of years are pivotal for both BYU and Utah, but to call this years schedule average versus a BCS schedule is not accurate.

    I don't think independence is where it's at long term, but I do think it's much better than being in the MWC. If BYU pulls off a 10+ win season this year or next (more likely next year), the interest from the Big12 will increase. The Big12 will eventually go back to 12 teams. There's too much money in a Big12 championship game not to. BYU should be well positioned to get one of those invites.

    In addition to a boat load of money, PAC membership has given Utah a recruiting advantage. But if Utah is sub 500 this year and next (which I see as likely), the recruiting advantage will dry up. U will get the reputation as a losing team. Does Washington St have a recruiting advantage over Boise St? Top athletes would much rather play for BSU.

    Go Cougs! And good luck Utes in every game except against BYU and USU.

  • Sandyclaws Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 6:55 a.m.

    @sweetnewss "I don't think anyone would question the fact that if utah would have had byu's schedule they would have been in a bowl game last year and if byu had utah's schedule they would have been 5-7 or worse."

    I would question it. Last year four of BYU's five losses were to teams that finished the season ranked in the top 25, while five of Utah's seven losses were to unranked teams.

    In two years of membership in the vaunted PAC 12 conference, Utah has played a total of two games against PAC 12 opponents who were ranked in the top 25 at the end of the year.

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 7:36 a.m.

    ekute

    Typical Utah... whining about the past, because the Utes have none - only a brief two-blip history that ended almost as quickly as it began.

    And your future? The annual pillow fight in the rockies to determine the PAC south basement dweller.

  • PACute_ Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 7:47 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    Only a Utah fan would see qualifying for a bcs bowl, instead of winning a national championship, as the pinnacle of college football achievement.

    The truth is, except for winning a national championship, the final poll is the ONLY poll that matters.

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 17
    Utah 5

    At Utah's current rate of 1 Top 25 finish every 13 years, it'll take the Utes another century and a half just reach the 17 AP Top 25 finishes BYU has already achieved.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 7:57 a.m.

    We ARE the nationals elite! Wins don't matter as much as we are elite.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Aug. 19, 2013 8:08 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    "Patting yourself on the back for an end-of-season top 25 ranking means you are fooling yourself about your football program."

    Typical, desperate spin from a program that only has FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history to pat themselves on the back for.

    Not surprising for a team that didn't even crack the AP Top 25 until 1994, more than a hundred years after U started playing football.

  • Hawk Littleton, CO
    Aug. 19, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    @JoeWatIII

    "Earth to everyone, winning games in sports IS WHAT MATTERS? That is why this is such a ridiculous article, all he is doing is stating a given fact and using it for BYU. Same article could have been written for Utah, or almost any other team in the NCAA. Cookie cutter article with no insight..."
    _____________

    You missed the point, Joe. Remember that 1st year in the PAC when the utes had a VERY pedestrian season, yet ALL of the stars had aligned and it came down to the last week of the season all they had to do was beat CU and they were Rose Bowl-bound? THAT is the point. As referenced in the article, no more 6-6 seasons resulting in a bowl game and a conference championship and proclaiming it a "successful" season. Without a conference, wins are the only measuring stick....

  • Mildred in Fillmore Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 8:28 a.m.

    You don't need to win to be elite. Look at BYU. We rarely beat anyone of significance and we are the most Elite.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 8:48 a.m.

    @Kralon..."I guess you have to hang on to whatever stat works for you. The BYU/Utah game is fun, but only one game a year at most.

    What works for me is if it was a choice of beating the utes or going to a bowl game, I would choose bowling every time! Last EIGHT years in a row! Go Cougars!"

    LOL....You and cougie fan's never use stats that only make the cougies look good do you.

    What works for me is undefeated seasons and BCS win's. In the last decade utah has done this twice the cougies have never been close. They have quested several times to match their big brother though...LOL

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 8:49 a.m.

    Hey, E Fudd, they're still saying that in Arizona "...We'll get there one day." LOL!!

    How many times have Arizona and Arizona State, the mighty schools that jumped from the WAC to the then PAC 8 to form the mighty PAC 10 been to the Rose Bowl? Your logic is admirable in that you are cheering for your team but statistics and history don't bode well for the Utes. Just being a member of the elite PAC Conference of Champions hasn't rubbed off onto them. I wonder why really good players wouldn't just drool to get into a "PAC School?"

    Maybe their recruits that go somewhere else other than the Arizona schools know something that the Uties have yet to learn. U always have Colorado (but are only .500 against them, too) to help grease your way to the Rose Bowl. LOL!!

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Aug. 19, 2013 9:23 a.m.

    RE: 2BCSWINS

    "What works for me is undefeated seasons and BCS win's. In the last decade utah has done this twice the cougies have never been close."

    Huh? I know it was a while ago, but 1984 still counts (especially when you qualify it with "never"). As far as BCS wins... an argument can easily be made that we were one win away in 2001, 2006, 2007 and 2009. One game seems close to me.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 9:34 a.m.

    PACUte_ declares "The truth is, except for winning a national championship, the final poll is the ONLY poll that matters."

    The final regular season poll is all that matters. In basketball terms, finishing in the top 16 is the "Big Dance". Finishing in the top 25 is the same as "making the NIT". If Bronco was a basketball coach, would Cougar fans be happy if the best he ever delivered was an NIT invitation?

    I've often wondered why BYU has been unable to join 47 other teams in the BCS club. Is it that fans are resigned to being a BCS outsider, so they consider a top 25 finish "success"? I notice how quickly you defensively said "Only a Utah fan..." Maybe that's it. Fans think success is either beating their in-state rival or going to a bowl game. The coaching staff must know their fans expectations are relatively low, so they meet those low expectations.

    Finishing in the top 25 shouldn't be enough for you. At the end of the regular season, sports shows should be buzzing with the question "does BYU deserve a BCS bid"? That isn't happening. Demand better.

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    Aug. 19, 2013 9:37 a.m.

    BYU has a long great tradition of winning, it is expected. The challenge ahead is huge. Bring it on! Just win baby!

  • metamoracoug metamora, IL
    Aug. 19, 2013 9:40 a.m.

    Sambonethegreat: I agree with your assessment -- which is kind of what the article states. Cougs need to win. Period.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 9:47 a.m.

    This just in: BYU has denied Texas Lineman Harrison's appeal. This is going to get ugly with Texas. What happens when an 800 LB gorilla doesn't get his way...we're about to see. If BYU wants to ever be looked at again by the Big 12 they need to be seen as being willing to be flexible. I'm pretty sure the rest of the Big 12 loves watching BYU stick it to Texas, but in the end does it show that BYU isn't willing to be flexible or accommodating? I guess we will see.

    In terms of this article, what more needs to be said. The kids from the hill will throw a tantrum, and accuse BYU fans of living in the past. The real question is, who's program appears to have the brighter future. I think both programs have opportunities to shine...it's up to them to make the most of those opportunities.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Aug. 19, 2013 9:57 a.m.

    @ Elmer - Does your ranking of the Utes schedule really reflect your perception of importance and toughness? If U had just said importance, I would have conceded your opinion. But if you really think it includes toughness, I'd like to review how you did at the end of the season.

    As for importance, it's a matter of opinion. But your opinion is different than most Ute fans. There was an article in the DNews on May 28 that stated 64% of Utah fans said beating BYU was more important to them than going to a bowl game. Meaning, they would put BYU in your #1 spot.

  • GK Willington Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 9:58 a.m.

    They'd be absolutely right but forgot 1 small detail.

    The 5 majors conferences need to self-destruct, implode, be obliterated, vanish, etc...

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:01 a.m.

    toosmartforyou
    Farmington, UT

    How many times have Arizona and Arizona State, the mighty schools that jumped from the WAC to the then PAC 8 to form the mighty PAC 10 been to the Rose Bowl? Your logic is admirable in that you are cheering for your team but statistics and history don't bode well for the Utes. Just being a member of the elite PAC Conference of Champions hasn't rubbed off onto them. I wonder why really good players wouldn't just drool to get into a "PAC School?"

    Maybe their recruits that go somewhere else other than the Arizona schools know something that the Uties have yet to learn. U always have Colorado (but are only .500 against them, too) to help grease your way to the Rose Bowl. LOL!!

    __________

    Why don't really good players just drool to play for BYU?
    UT, AZ, & ASU all have more players in the NFL than BYU does.
    The Conference of Champions has rubbed of on them. AZ & ASU have won national titles in several sports.
    BYU is 3-8-1 all time against Colorado. What percentage is that?

  • MGB Saint George, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:02 a.m.

    To ekute:

    The utes do not live in the PAC12, they die in the PAC12.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:04 a.m.

    RE: SoonerUte

    "The final regular season poll is all that matters. In basketball terms, finishing in the top 16 is the "Big Dance". Finishing in the top 25 is the same as "making the NIT"."

    Interesting analogy. So, if football (119 teams) was run like basketball (345 teams) you would have to apply a .188 ratio to the number of football teams, meaning that the NCAA tournament (65 teams) would be the equivalent of the top 22 pre-bowl teams. That means that all-time...

    BYU: 15 tourney invites, 5 trips to 2nd round, two sweet sixteens, and one elite 8/final 4/national title.
    Utah: 3 tourney invites, 2 sweet sixteens

    "If Bronco was a basketball coach, would Cougar fans be happy if the best he ever delivered was an NIT invitation?"

    Bronco: four first round tourney appearances
    Whittingham: two appearances, one sweet sixteen

    Are we happy simply going to the tournament? No, but consistency is nice.

  • Utes-Best Lil Brothers Anaheim, CA
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:06 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    Comparing the NCAA tournament with the bcs is laughable.

    When the major college football tournament expands to an 8- to 16-team tournament, then, and only then, will your "end of regular season Top 16" rankings comparison be relevant.

    The truth is, even Utah's two greatest seasons ever, weren't good enough to produce a single national team or player award of any kind - no national championship, no Heisman trophy, no national individual award winner, and no national college football hall of fame player.

    Two nice bowl wins (one over an EXTREMELY mediocre, barely ranked opponent) are all you have to show for yourself.

    For all of your chest-beating, even Utah's Sugar Bowl winning team wasn't considered good enough to climb any higher than #4 in the official bcs final poll, the Coaches Poll.

    BYU's 1996 Cotton Bowl-winning team only finished a notch below that, at #5.

  • David in New Mexico Rio Rancho, NM
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:10 a.m.

    The rivalry banter in fun. But I think we can all feel the direction things are going from media:

    1) BYU's offense is a question mark but we have great backs, killer WRs, and a good QB. Everyone feels it should be better than last year with Riley hurt.
    2) BYU's defense is still very good with Van Noy, Unga and Kafusi. Secondary is thin, may be open to long balls.
    3) Utah's offense is still questionable. Can't find good receivers and they're missing the bruising backs of the past.
    4) Utah's Defense is not quite what it used to be. Good but they're missing Andersen.
    5) Media has Utah at 5 wins, no bowl game.
    6) Media has BYU at 8 wins, with a bowl game.

    Bottom line: BYU will struggle and have a mediocre winning season with a bowl against stiff competition. Utah will continue to fade with a 5-win losing season. We'll see.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:33 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    "The final regular season poll is all that matters."

    So Utah fans spouting off about finishing #2 in 2008 or #4 in 2004 is meaningless?

    In fact, Utah's Sugar Bowl win doesn't matter, because that occurred after the final regular season poll, which as you clearly stated, is all that matters?

    Ute chest beating about finishing in the Top 5 is meaningless, because the Utes have never finished higher than #6 in the final regular season poll?

    It's laughable the contorted spin Utah fans are forced to employ to try to minimize BYU's clearly superior overall accomplishments.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:38 a.m.

    @ Elmer Fudd,

    I completely agree with your ranking of Utah's games as well. I gave you a like as well.

    Do you think Ute fans will storm the field after they win the game against Weber State? Probably not. That game is the only one people would be shocked if Utah didn't win. Teams 1-11 on your ranking are all games against teams that are either currently much better than Utah or in the case of Colorado and Washington State are about just as good as Utah. The fans SHOULD storm the field if the Utes win any game this year among those first eleven games.

    Someday Utah will be good enough to become bowl eligible again. I really do believe that 2015 will be the year. In the current year the Utes should just be happy when they get a win because they won't be coming easy with how depleted the NFL and graduation has left them.

    Take solace. The Utes once beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl! BYU in the meantime will go bowling, be ranked and play a national schedule on TV. I like where BYU is.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:46 a.m.

    WACpaddled

    "BYU is 3-8-1 all time against Colorado. What percentage is that?"

    Gotta luv the frantic and emotional spin Utah fans are forced to use to help themselves sleep at night.

    BYU has won 3 of the last 4 versus Colorado, and hasn't lost to the Buffs since a narrow 7-9 setback in the 40's. In the meantime, BYU has dished out a beatdown in Boulder and beat the Buffs in the Freedom Bowl.

    Compare that to Utah's two most recent meetings with the Buffs - a LOSS to a 10-loss team at home, and a 7-point win over an 11-loss team in Boulder.

    btw, Utah is 0-8 lifetime versus Washington. BYU is 4-4, including a win in 2010.

    The Arizona schools have excelled in other sports, but the sad truth for U is, as pathetic as the Utes have been in PAC football (7-11), the Utes have been even more pathetic in every other PAC sport besides W gymnastics.

  • romeisn'tburning layton, ut
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:47 a.m.

    @ManInTheMiddle

    Have fun in Murfeesboro next year.

  • Tilka PORTLAND, OR
    Aug. 19, 2013 11:01 a.m.

    This article provides key and brilliant insight. If you win all your games you can be considered an elite program.

  • Beaver Native Garland, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 11:34 a.m.

    Let's face it. Last year was not the best of years for either BYU or Utah. Both teams will be better in the future, but I have my doubts for both teams this year. I have my doubts particularly about BYU's choice for offensive staff, and some key players have been injured in practice. Still routing for BYU!

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 19, 2013 11:37 a.m.

    Laugh fest...

    ute fan logic:

    1. That by being admitted into the PAC 12 they have been crowned worthy and that they need to do nothing to be counted among the country's elite programs.

    2. Turn around and tell BYU fans that none of the accolades or praise BYU gets from anybody is worthwhile, nor does their national championship, winning seasons, bowl appearances, or higher and more often final top 25 rankings.

    3. The only thing that matters is that they are 3-4, 8-11. Winning is everything.

    So when they are talking about themselves they use the collective "we're" part of a better conference, but it does not matter if we win, the only thing that matters is that we have a chance to win, and that we've arrived and are accepted into a "Big boy" conference.

    Then they come back to BYU fans and say, nothing else matter except wins.

    Nice logic. So wins only matter one direction and not the other?

    That is why you'll never be respected.

  • #1 SLC Sports Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 11:42 a.m.

    The facts of the matter are this is a program where some in senior LDS Church leadership question if it is really needed for the mission of BYU. All this program has done is take away from the effectiveness of state run programs, particularly at Utah State University. Had BYU done the right thing half a century ago and given up football, and not been included in the original WAC alignment, this wouldn't be an issue. The football program should be dropped at BYU plain and simple.

  • Love skiing Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 11:47 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs- You are one of the most reasonable person on here. Way to keep it real bro. Wow, they did deny it. This is huge because Texas don't play nice with anyone. If and when expansion talk comes up again, they will love nothing better than sticking it to BYU. I was hoping that BYU would just approve it and move on. This may come back to bite BYU. Good luck on the season except the Utah game.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 11:54 a.m.

    @ toosmartforyou

    "Hey, E Fudd, they're still saying that in Arizona "...We'll get there one day." LOL!!"

    Here's the thing! Utah is NOT Arizona! It wasn't too long ago that BYU fans would say "Utah will never crash the BCS", and they did! "Utah will never do it again", and they did! "Utah will never beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl", and they did! Utah will never be invited to join the Pac-10", and they did! Now it's "Utah will never win the PAC and play in the Rose Bowl", only time will tell! BYU fans making those ridiculous claims only reveal their jealousy of Utah.

    By the way Scoreboard!

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 11:56 a.m.

    #1 SLC Sports Fan

    Your speculation is nothing but bitter jealousy from a BYU-hating Aggie. There aren't now, and never have been any serious discussions within the senior LDS Church leadership of dropping football at BYU.

    Utah State is a nice school with a decent athletics program, but Utah State's "mission" has absolutely NOTHING to do with BYU's mission.

  • Beaver Native Garland, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    @ Ute fans calling BYU football irrelevant: If it's irrelevant, why do you put so much time into commenting on something so irrelevant to you? Your actions speak louder than your words. It appears that both schools are still highly relevant to each other.

    BYU went independent because their major competition left for better conferences and they were not willing to compromise on Sunday play in order to do the same. The MWC no longer had programs that could compete with BYU so BYU left so that they had more freedom in strengthening their schedule. They stay independent because they still won't compromise on Sunday play. It also helps that they have a lucrative contract with ESPN.

  • Gus Tunkle Pleasant Grove, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:08 p.m.

    BYU is the greatest college football program in NCAA history. The is no "return" necessary.

  • Brigham's Brother Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:15 p.m.

    What, no prediction for a national championship? Perhaps Cougar nation has learned its lessons...perhaps.

  • Fashion Police Olympus Cove, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:19 p.m.

    Elmer Fudd

    Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but 2004 and 2008 were anomalies, not trends. A program that has only finished in the AP Top 25 FIVE times in their entire history and has only won SIX WAC/MWC championships in half a century, THAT program has no chance of ever being one of the big boys in the PAC.

    The Utes will NEVER win a national championship.

    And, IF the Utes ever win a conference championship, it will be at half the frequency at which the Utes won championships in the WAC, in other words, about 1 every 37 years.

    5-7 seasons with no bowl, with occassional break through 7-5 seasons are Utah's new reality.

    The sooner you accept that, the better you'll sleep at night.

  • vangroovin West Jordan, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:24 p.m.

    Glad to see an article not criticizing BYU for something! Looking forward to a great season! Go Cougs!

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:25 p.m.

    @ElmerFudd

    Nice rankings of toughness and importance! TO bad it doesn't really matter for a 4-8 finish, 2-7 Pac-10 (Again, you are still not recognized by Pac-10 fans, they still don't want you and Colorado). The only thing Utah and Colorado are good for in the Pac-10 is a couple extra conference wins.

    Thanks!

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:36 p.m.

    Utah is in the PAC12 right now because of two BCS bowl wins. Simple as that. TCU same thing. BYU hasn't even been to a BCS bowl and therefore isn't considered a major college football program until it does....at least not in the same sense as those programs consistently in the top 20. Wins will do the trick no question but the Y has the double hard task of getting those wins on the road because nobody is going to come to Provo anymore. It can be done but it will take some good fortune getting great players and that is much easier said than done.

  • Reno Cougs Fan 68 Reno, NV
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:38 p.m.

    Beaver Native,
    Thank you for saying what you did!!!! BYU will not compromise its principles to join a conference and they should not be asked or expected to do so!!! I would rather hold my head up high and know I have honor, spirit and tradition on my side then to give it all up just to belong to a certain conference!!! Stay the coarse BYU!!!

    Go Cougs!!!
    Go Utes!!!
    Go Aggies!!! Beat Utah

  • Aggie238 Logan, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 12:44 p.m.

    "Independent BYU just needs wins to return to nation's elite"

    Isn't this true of pretty much every sports team...ever?

  • majCoug Cairo, AE
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:07 p.m.

    I'm with Joe. Doesn't every team in every sport require wins to be elite. I mean with exception to Notre Dame.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:14 p.m.

    SportsFan
    Orem, UT
    WACpaddled

    BYU has won 3 of the last 4 versus Colorado, and hasn't lost to the Buffs since a narrow 7-9 setback in the 40's. In the meantime, BYU has dished out a beatdown in Boulder and beat the Buffs in the Freedom Bowl.

    Compare that to Utah's two most recent meetings with the Buffs - a LOSS to a 10-loss team at home, and a 7-point win over an 11-loss team in Boulder.

    btw, Utah is 0-8 lifetime versus Washington. BYU is 4-4, including a win in 2010.

    The Arizona schools have excelled in other sports, but the sad truth for U is, as pathetic as the Utes have been in PAC football (7-11), the Utes have been even more pathetic in every other PAC sport besides W gymnastics.

    __________

    Who is the one spinning? You totally ignored what I was commenting about while focusing on BYUs all time record against CU.

    No wonder BYU fans can't handle numbers. You are comparing Utah's time in the PAC with the Arizona schools. Kind of a difference in years don't you think?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:15 p.m.

    It's time for both Utah and BYU to start beating the better teams on the schedule. Talking the talk is one thing, but walking the walk is a whole different story. I would love to see both Utah and BYU win 9-10 games this year; but looking at the schedules, that's a tall task indeed. Best of luck to both schools, except when Utah visits Provo.

    GO UTES

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:16 p.m.

    I love it - look how many Utes have already posted on this article.

    On Sat, the DNews confirmed that Wilson had solidified his spot as starting QB. There are four comments on Wilson, and yet on this BYU article there are over 80 comments with about 20 of them being from Utes.

    Conclusion - Utes would rather discuss BYU football than their own program.

    There is also a good article in the Denver Post about the Buffs, but no Utes have commented. Who is your rival?

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:17 p.m.

    patriot

    "Utah is in the PAC12 right now because of two BCS bowl wins. Simple as that."

    Nope, they aren't.

    The Utes are in the PAC simply because they and Colorado were the two schools with the best cultural fit, along with decent academics, decent-sized television markest, and decent athletic programs, after the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger fell through.

    Utah's flash-in-the-pan football program had as little to do with it as Colorado's down-in-the-dumps football program.

    The PAC simply needed a couple of warm bodies to hold a CCG and increase their television market.

    It's as simple as that.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:26 p.m.

    patriot

    "Wins will do the trick no question but the Y has the double hard task of getting those wins on the road because nobody is going to come to Provo anymore."

    NOBODY, that is, except for teams like Texas, USC, Notre Dame, Boise State, and...

    Utah.

    Winning on the road, though more difficult, earns even more respect.

    Unlike Utah, BYU isn't afraid to continue scheduling difficult opponents on the road.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:38 p.m.

    @CougfaninTexas

    Look at the Utah injury article, BYU fans taking shots at Utah. There's no difference, don't kid your self.

    @Lonestar

    So I take it that Michigan isn't a difficult opponent?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:42 p.m.

    "Unlike Utah, BYU isn't afraid to continue scheduling difficult opponents on the road."

    Hard to argue that, since we scheduled byu this year and in 2016...On the road...Or...Could it be that Utah doesn't have a problem getting difficult opponents to come to RES?

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:45 p.m.

    Beaver Native said:

    "I have my doubts particularly about BYU's choice for offensive staff"

    I'm not sure why you wrote this. Anae is a somewhat predictable but decent OC. We'll see what he can do for now. Since everyone is commenting about BYU from the Utah side of things, I find it hilarious that they took our terrible head coach in Erikson from ASU as their co-offensive coordinator. Your "pitch" play has just turned into a swing pass. You will also run that play at least 25 times per game. Erikson is too predictable. I would say that about Anae, but he has implemented a new offense, so we'll have to see if he goes back into a predictable rut or not.

    I think BYU will have a good year. I don't think they will go undefeated, but it will be a good year. Utah on the other hand, I don't see them doing well. They will defeat Weber St. but every other game is either a loss or a toss up. I don't see Utah bowing this year.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:46 p.m.

    WACpaddled

    What are you talking about?

    There are lots of good players who choose to play at BYU overall schools from the PAC, including Utah.

    Which school had the highest ranked draftee in the most recent NFL draft?

    Utah's recent success in the NFL draft is dwarved by BYU's long-term success in the NFL draft.

    Arizona and ASU may have won national championships in multiple sport since 1979, but so has BYU, including a football national championship, which Arizona and ASU have never even sniffed.

    If you don't want to be slammed for citing BYU's irrelevant all-time record versus Colorado, then why post it?

    Utah also has losing record versus Colorado, but unlike BYU, Utah's most recent loss to Colorado wasn't over 60 years ago, it was only 2 years ago.

    BYU's all-time record versus Colorado is about as relevant as Utah's all-time record versus the YMCA, 1-7.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:46 p.m.

    I just don't get the Ute fans. The article is about BYU. Not Utah. If Utah has "moved on", why do their fans care SO MUCH about what BYU is doing???

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:53 p.m.

    BYU has always been treated with respect nationally. Its only within a few programs that BYU is so despised that the fans consider the football program irrelevant. They will watch the games just as they always have and hope the Cougars fail.

    BYU has a great advantage against Texas this year. I can't see how 300 lb lineman will be able to keep up with BYU's uptempo offense at altitude. Keep the horns close to halftime and hook em in the second with consistent fast plays and the Cougars come away with a marquee win.

    @Spokane Ute

    That Michigan game will be fun to watch. Hope the Utes pull it off like they did the last time they went to Ann Arbor. 2015 should be a good year for the team, and a chance to finally get back to a bowl after a three year drought.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:56 p.m.

    SpokaneUte

    "So I take it that Michigan isn't a difficult opponent?"

    Don't kid yourself.

    Michigan is the one and ONLY elite OOC opponent the Utes have ever enticed into visiting RES, and the Utes simply lucked into that when the Wolverines jumped the gun on what they thought was going to be a long-term, inter-conference scheduling agreement between the B1G and the PAC.

    Call us the next time the Utes schedule another elite OOC opponent like Texas, Miami, Florida State, Notre Dame, Penn State or USC to visit RES.

    (Sorry, U don't get to count the PAC forcing USC to play U in SLC.)

  • jeru0455 SALEM, OR
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:57 p.m.

    What was the point of this article? BYU would be elite if they won all their games? Yeah, no kidding? Maybe the D-News should write an article about how if BYU wins most of their games, then they will have a winning record. Why would you watch a team that plays for nothing? BYU just plays a bunch of meaningless regular season games and then goes to some mid level bowl to play the sixth best PAC team (assuming they even accomplish that.) If they had stayed in the MWC they could have at least played the fifth best team and had a conference trophy if they had won it. Their season will be over by game two when they play Texas. Then it's just pointless.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 1:57 p.m.

    eastcoastcoug,

    Cause we're going to grace your stadium on 9/21.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    Aug. 19, 2013 2:05 p.m.

    ekute

    Home or away, the Utes haven't beaten an AP Top 25 team since the Sugar Bowl.

    Despite the continuing delusion of the kids living under that crimson bubble on the hill, the Utes have been in steady decline ever since.

    btw, the BYU-Utah 2016 game is in SLC.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Aug. 19, 2013 2:13 p.m.

    "What was the point of this article? BYU would be elite if they won all their games? Yeah, no kidding?"

    The point, dear jeru0455, and others who seem be having trouble here, is that BYU, even as an Independent, can still be an elite team.

    Despite claims to the contrary from the hill crowd, "eliteness" isn't determined by conference affilation, but by success on the field.

    Being a basement dweller in a power conference doesn't make you elite, it only makes U a well-paid doormat.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 2:22 p.m.

    "Of course, there were down years, most notably the end of the Gary Crowton era, but by and large, BYU was the pace horse of the old WAC and later the Mountain West Conference for decades." -- Rocky Stele

    WAC yes, MWC no!

    The MWC pace horses were TCU and Utah, BYU just Quested for what they did. They produced more NFL talent including better QB's (Smith and Dalton), better recruits, and BCS wins.

    "BYU’s history from the Cotton Bowl victory forward has been very pedestrian; no undefeated seasons, no BCS bowl games and most importantly no BCS Bowl game wins. The fact is this BYU’s football program has been just speed bump albeit higher than let’s say SDSU or UNLV in the road for the real power programs in the MWC; TCU and Utah"

    Those two horses have moved on to greener pastures.

  • Blue Rampage Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 2:22 p.m.

    It's always been tough for the ute fans. Two B[S]CS Bowl victories, an invite to the Pac 10+2... And who ends up on the Street & Smith's Pac preview? None other than Kyle Van Noy.

    Being part of a big conference hasn't changed your image. Now hear this, Wyoming of the Pac... "NOBODY CARES ABOUT U."

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Aug. 19, 2013 3:01 p.m.

    @ Steve Jarvis

    Thanks Man and good luck this year. Nice to respond to a civil comment as opposed to someone who simply hates their rival.

    Truthmachine
    When you have USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon, etc. on your schedule year in and year out, you don't need any more elite opponents coming to town because you play in one of the top 3 conferences in America. and why in the world wouldn't USC count? They come to SLC every other year. BYU has a great schedule this year, but Utah's is still considered more difficult. That's what happens when you are a member of a top caliber conference. Call us when you beat one of those teams listed. Until then, it's just drivel. Sorry, but simply playing, and getting beat by top teams doesn't say much; and the same goes for Utah. Now who's kidding who? U Mad Bro?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Aug. 19, 2013 3:23 p.m.

    Home or away, the Utes haven't beaten an AP Top 25 team since the Sugar Bowl.

    @ Rockwell or Scenic View, or who ever you have

    Neither has BYU.

    Face it, both teams need to start getting quality wins, or get used to being a below average Independent; and a lower tier PAC 12 school. Anyone can schedule good teams, it's beating those teams that matter. That's the facts; plain and simple.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 3:39 p.m.

    Uteology

    "The MWC pace horses were TCU and Utah..."

    Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but

    MWC championships overall:
    BYU 4
    Utah 4
    TCU 3

    While TCU was a member of the MWC:

    MWC championships
    TCU 4
    BYU 2
    Utah 1

    Top 25 finishes
    TCU 6
    BYU 5
    Utah 3

    Top 15 finishes
    TCU 5
    BYU 3
    Utah 1

    10+ win seasons
    TCU 6
    BYU 5
    Utah 3

    During the Bronco/Kyle era (which is when TCU entered the MWC), Utah had one good year, and little else.

    As far as a pace setter, U couldn't even beat the teams at the bottom of the conference. The Utes lost to every bottom dweller in the MWC - Wyoming, New Mexico, Colorado State and pathetic 10-loss UNLV.

    The same pattern has already begun in the PAC, where the Utes lost to pathetic 10-loss Colorado in their first season.

    Pace setter?

    LOL!

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 3:47 p.m.

    SpokaneUte

    "When you have USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon, etc. on your schedule year in and year out, you don't need any more elite opponents coming to town..."

    Actually, you do if you have any hope of making the playoffs.

    "USC, UCLA, Stanford, and Oregon have all had recent down years, where they were barely mediocre, let alone "elite" -

    or have you forgotten,

    BYU DESTROYED Oregon 38-8 and UCLA 59-0.

    Remind us again how many Top 25 PAC teams you've played, let alone, beaten, so far.

    When they've come to SLC they've been decidely NOT elite!

    Now who's kidding who?

  • Beaver Native Garland, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 3:51 p.m.

    @ CougarSunDevil,

    Admittedly, I'm an amateur that never even played H.S. football, although I broadcast H.S. games for three years. I don't know enough to consider myself an expert. My reasoning about the offensive staff is based on the fact that BYU once let Anae go. Agreed that Anae is a decent OC, but BYU needs more than a decent OC at the level of play they are at now. I'll be cheering for BYU and I hope you're right.

    Not being from the Wasatch Front, the Utah game doesn't have the same meaning for me as most of you. Both schools have had great teams in the past and will have great teams in the future, but the last year or two have been disappointing for both teams. Too many are looking at past successes as predictors of the coming year when the last couple of years have been less than stellar. I wish both teams success this year. It would be great to see one or both at a BCS bowl game, but I think that's not likely this year.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Aug. 19, 2013 4:45 p.m.

    @ Gordonblue

    Not kidding anyone, I was perfectly honest. Neither Utah or BYU have beaten a top 25 team in quite some time. The BYU-UCLA game was 5 years ago. UCLA finished the season 4-8. The Oregon-BYU game was 7 years ago. Oregon finished 7-6. Are you actually gloating over these victories? Really? Further more, Utah's schedule includes 5 top 25 teams, all within conference. Plus #26 BYU and #19 Utah State (per Sagarin rankings). If you actually think that a 13-0 run wouldn't get Utah into a playoff, I have some Ocean front property here in Spokane that you might be interested in. It's quite obvious, you are kidding your self; as usual. Nice! I also love the use of CAPS, always a nice touch...........sheeesh!

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 5:35 p.m.

    Wins over top programs don't matter. What matters is attitude.
    If you know you're elite, then you're elite. It doesn't matter if you can't beat good teams. What matters is what you believe.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 5:36 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "Neither Utah or BYU have beaten a top 25 team in quite some time."

    That's only true for Utah.

    As far as AP Top 25 teams go:

    BYU beat #16 Utah State in 2012
    and
    BYU beat #18 Utah in 2009

    As far as Utah is concerned, you're correct. The Utes haven't beaten an AP Top 25 team since the Sugar Bowl.

    CordonBleu wasn't gloating over victories versus "ELITE" Oregon and UCLA teams; he was simply pointing out the obvious fallacy and hyperbole in your argument that "When you have USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon, etc. on your schedule year in and year out, you don't need any more elite opponents", because every one of those teams has had down years recently in which they were decidedly NOT ELITE teams.

    So, where exactly are all of these so-called "ELITE" teams that you play year in and year out in the PAC?

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 19, 2013 5:36 p.m.

    I love that ute fans have moved on....

    Moved on so much that they must come back to every BYU article to tell byu fans why they are better.

    BYU is better. PERIOD.

    Better as a school.
    Better as a place to go to school.
    Better basketball.
    Better other sports.
    Better fans.
    Better situation.

    ...and on the 21st, we'll be a better football team.

    I don't need to go to a ute article and post there to know it.

    But what's even better is when u fans come to BYU articles to tell BYU fans that they are arrogant and self righteous.

    (see the problem yet uties?)

    If I had moved on, I wouldn't ever read another BYU article let alone comment on one.

    I don't care what is going on at the u. I can't name one player (now that Star is gone), and I don't know who they play this year.

    If it weren't for ute trolls coming to BYU articles to pound their chests, I would think what half the country thinks and wouldn't know u had a football team at all.

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 5:50 p.m.

    spokaneute

    "If you actually think that a 13-0 run wouldn't get Utah into a playoff, I have some Ocean front property here in Spokane that you might be interested in."

    If you think that the Utes are capable of running the table playing five conference teams that actually finish in the AP Top 25, I have some ocean front property here in west Box Elder county that you might be interested in.

    The truth is, pre-season Top 25 rankings are meaningless. USC was pre-season AP #1 last year, and finished 7-6, and unranked, after getting stomped in the Sun Bowl by a team that BYU dominated on their home turf.

    With a gift-wrapped PAC 12 South there for the taking in 2011, U couldn't get past 10-loss Colorado on your home field.

    Wake up and smell the coffee. After two seasons in the PAC, you still haven't beaten a conference foe with a winning record, let alone a ranked PAC opponent... sheeesh!

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 6:52 p.m.

    Top Ten Wins of the Mendenhall Era (My opinion)

    #1 at #3 Oklahoma 2009 17-16
    #2 Beat #18 Oregon State 44-20, 2009 Las Vegas Bowl
    #3 59-0 UCLA 2008
    #4 OT Win vs. #21 Utah 26-23 2009
    #5 31-17 @TCU 2006
    #6 33-31 @Utah 2006
    #7 38-8 Oregon at Las Vegas Bowl 2006
    #8 17-10 Utah 2007
    #9 27-22 TCU 2007
    #10 6-3 Utah State 2012

    I would consider the Mendenhall era recent. BYU beat three ranked teams in 2009, the best year probably for Bronco. Last year they beat USU which ended ranked and barely out of a BCS game (Northern Ill. was barely ahead).

    I think the PAC as a league is once again overrated just as they were last year. If they start winning more than half their bowl games consistently instead of their embarrassment last year, that perception should change.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Aug. 19, 2013 8:57 p.m.

    LonestarRunner
    Salt Lake City, UT
    WACpaddled

    What are you talking about?

    There are lots of good players who choose to play at BYU overall schools from the PAC, including Utah.

    Which school had the highest ranked draftee in the most recent NFL draft?

    Utah's recent success in the NFL draft is dwarved by BYU's long-term success in the NFL draft.

    Arizona and ASU may have won national championships in multiple sport since 1979, but so has BYU, including a football national championship, which Arizona and ASU have never even sniffed.

    If you don't want to be slammed for citing BYU's irrelevant all-time record versus Colorado, then why post it?

    Utah also has losing record versus Colorado, but unlike BYU, Utah's most recent loss to Colorado wasn't over 60 years ago, it was only 2 years ago.

    BYU's all-time record versus Colorado is about as relevant as Utah's all-time record versus the YMCA, 1-7.

    _________

    Sigh. Another BYU fan with tunnel vision. Perhaps you should ask the OTHER BYU fan about that in a previous post.
    Long term success? Utah has more drafted players than BYU going back decades, according to pro-football-reference.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 19, 2013 9:09 p.m.

    @Uteanymous
    During the Bronco/Kyle era (which is when TCU entered the MWC), Utah had one good year, and little else.

    -----------

    Wrong!

    Your same old stats, which tries to equate 2 top 25 finishes is equal to two undefeated top 5 finishes with BCS wins. Nice spin!

    AP Top 25 in MWC:

    Utah (4):
    2009 18 10-3
    2008 2 13-0
    2004 4 12-0
    2003 21 10-2

    BYU (5):
    2009 12 11-2
    2008 25 10-3
    2007 14 11-2
    2006 16 11-2
    2001 2512-2

    MWC Tiles:
    1. TCU 5 (Rose)
    2. Utah 4 (Fiesta and Sugar)
    3. BYU 4 (Vegas)

    Last 3 years in the MWC:
    1. TCU 36-3 (lost to #@2 Utah, #7 Boise, #5 Oklahoma)
    2. Utah 33-6 (lost to @#6 TCU, @#12 BYU, @#11 Oregon, #2 TCU, #9 Boise, @#26 ND)
    3. BYU 28-11 (lost to Arizona (8-5), FSU (7-6), @USU (4-8), @AFA, Nevada, etc.)

    Since TCU joined? So what? BYU also finished #5 in MWC during the period, Utah never finished lower than 3rd.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 9:56 p.m.

    But I thought byU was already in the nation's Elite? They actually have to win? lol

    Not gonna happen this year.

  • Gus Tunkle Pleasant Grove, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:04 p.m.

    I think that the BYU Cougars are super cool. If I could I would grow another mouth to cheer twice as loud!! Go Cougars!! :)

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:29 p.m.

    Uteology/utahcountyute

    Utah fans are forced to concentrate on minutia, like head-to-head versus BYU, and cherry-picked wins over supposedly good power conference teams, because the Utes simply aren't good enough to ranked at the end of the season.

    Regardless of how U spin it, these facts remain:

    AP Top 25 Finishes Lifetime
    BYU 17
    Utah 5

    AP Top 25 Finishes Bronco/Kyle era
    Bronco 4
    Kyle 2

    The sad truth for U is this:

    IF the Utes were even half as good as Utah fans pretend they are, the Utes would have finished in the AP Top 25 more than FIVE times in their entire history.

    The record speaks for itself:

    BYU ranked in 22% of all 1054 AP polls - 11 (Preseason), 17 (Final), 236 Weeks (Total)
    Utah ranked in 7% of all 1054 AP polls - 2 (Preseason), 5 (Final), 77 Weeks (Total)

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Aug. 19, 2013 10:50 p.m.

    WACpaddled:

    "Long term success? Utah has more drafted players than BYU going back decades, according to pro-football-reference."

    Remind us how many Utah players have been NFL and Super Bowl MVPs.

    -------------

    Uteology

    "BYU also finished #5 in MWC during the period, Utah never finished lower than 3rd."

    NOPE! Unfortunately for U, it was BYU that never finished lower than 3rd, and the Utes that finished 4th in 2005.

    The real results:

    BYU finished in a 3-way tie for 3rd in 2010, losing to Air Force, but beating SDSU.
    TCU 8-0
    Utah 7-1
    AFA 5-3
    BYU 5-3
    SDSU 5-3

    Utah(4-4) finished 4th in 2005, behind BYU(5-3) 2nd.

    Overall during the Bronco/Kyle:

    Bronco's average MWC finish: 2.0 (2, 1, 1, 3, 2, 3)
    Kyle's average MWC finish: 2.7 (4, 3, 3, 1, 3, 2)

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 20, 2013 5:08 a.m.

    @SportsFan

    Utah(4-4) finished 4th in 2005, behind BYU(5-3) 2nd.

    --------------

    Great but how did we do overall and head to head? In 2005, BYU was clearly not the better team:

    * Utah finished 7-5 ahead of 6-6 BYU and CSU
    * Beat BYU @LES
    * Beat #24 Georgia Tech in a bowl game

    Remember you also defined 8-5 and 5-7 as a bottom feeder.

    So in 2010 why are you defining a 7-5 team as 3rd best team when TCU 11-1, Utah 10-3, AFA 9-4, and SDSU 9-4 were clearly much better teams.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 7:38 a.m.

    Uteology

    "So in 2010 why are you defining a 7-5 team as 3rd best team when TCU 11-1, Utah 10-3, AFA 9-4, and SDSU 9-4 were clearly much better teams."

    Nice dodge, but the discussion was about conference finish, not who was better.

    In 2005, BYU tied with AFA and SDSU, and split with them head-to-head, losing to AFA, but beating SDSU, so in conference standings, the three remained tied.

    If SDSU was clearly better, how did BYU beat the Aztecs head-to-head? Doesn't that fly in the face of the argument Utah fans are constantly making that head-to-head trumps all?

    Utah didn't beat #24 Georgia Tech, Utah beat unranked Georgia Tech, a team that only garnered 1 vote in the final AP poll (tied with Utah and 3 other teams at 38th), and only 5 votes in the final Coaches poll (34th).

    BYU, on the other hand, lost a close game to #25/#25 California(8-4), a team that was obviously MUCH better than the bowl opponent Utah faced.

    Better team doesn't always equate to conference/overall record.

    Average MWC finish
    Bronco = 2.0
    Kyle = 2.7

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Aug. 20, 2013 7:45 a.m.

    Y's Little Brother

    News Flash, neither has BYU. Did I say Utah had beaten conference foe with a winning record? NO. Did I say it's time for Utah to start beating the better teams in the conference? Yes. You are trying to pick an arguement, and you don't even know what to argue about, nice.

    Snack Pack

    Again, BYU hasn't beaten a top 25 team either. Where are the elite PAC 12 schools? Why look in the top 25, and the top 5 for that matter. Last year the PAC 12 finished with #2, #5 and #19. The conference was ranked #2 or #3 in every ranking system. Look at the conferences non-conference winning %. If you can't admit that the PAC 12 is a premier conference you either hate Utah, or don't know college football. I believe it's a combination of the two; that's quite apparent. Isn't it snack time yet guy?

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    Aug. 20, 2013 8:02 a.m.

    Love how u fans feel that the past ten years means more than the previous 40.

    The only thing that matters is last year, and the last game.

    Yes, you beat us, but we did better overall.

    This year we will beat you and still do better overall.

    U fans, take a close look at your current situation. It isn't new. u have been in decline since 2008. u aren't picked to do well this year either. Next year you will probably be the same. The year after u will have a new coach, but that doesn't mean u'll be any better.

    The only people who don't get it is u. This is u'r new normal.

  • #1 SLC Sports Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 8:03 a.m.

    Uteanymous

    Drive up to Rexburg, Idaho sometime and see what an LDS Church university should really look like and behave like. Disagree or not this is what some in senior LDS Church leadership want for BYU.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Aug. 20, 2013 8:14 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "Again, BYU hasn't beaten a top 25 team either."

    Newsflash:

    BYU beat #16/#17 Utah State last year; whether U want to acknowledge it or not, BYU beat a Top 25 team in 2012 (which, if you do the math, was last season).

    BYU also beat #18/#18 Utah in 2009. Are you really going to argue that Utah wasn't a Top 25 team in 2009?

    That's TWO Top 25 teams BYU has beaten since Utah's Sugar Bowl win over Alabama.

    In the mean time, Utah hasn't beaten a single AP Top 25 team in the last four seasons.

    It doesn't matter where the PAC 12 finished last season, since Utah didn't play #2 Oregon or #5 Stanford, and there's no guarantee that any PAC 12 team Utah faces in the future will be ranked. Every season is different. Pre-season, Utah was projected to play #1 USC last year. The Utes ended up playing a 7-6, unranked USC team.

    As they say, don't count your chickns, er SOS, before the end of the season. Pre-season rankings are meaningless. Final rankings are the ONLY rankings that count.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Aug. 20, 2013 8:29 a.m.

    @Rockwell

    You are right, I stand corrected. Utah has beaten BYU three years in row though, right? That's a stat that never comes up in these discussions by BYU fans. Now that's curious?

    Let's get this season started, we both need some new amunition. Both schools need to start beating the good schools on there schedule, consistently. I think we can both agree to that.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 8:29 a.m.

    #1 SLC Sports Fan

    You obviously never attended a football or basketball game at Ricks before the school dropped intercollegiate athletics - Ricks College fans were just as passionate about their teams as BYU fans are about theirs, in fact, many of those former Ricks College fans are now BYU fans, including three of my children who earned Associates Degrees from Ricks/BYU-I and then earned their Bachelors Degrees from BYU.

    There is a special spirit at BYU-I, but that same spirit, in many respects, can also be found at BYU.

    btw, I see many in senior LDS Church leadership attending football and basketball games at BYU, and for the most part, they're very pleased with the overall positive influence BYU athletics have had in advancing the mission of the church.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 20, 2013 8:50 a.m.

    @Marked it Down

    Nope, that wasn't no my original comment. I said the pace horse for the WAC was BYU.

    I said the pace horses for MWC was clearly Utah and TCU based on NFL talent, BCS games, and "more importantly" BCS wins (aka big wins). Which was the same argument made in the article to support BYU.

    Only in Provo is 7-5 team better than a 9-4 team playing a similar SOS.

    Only in Provo is getting beat at home by your rival then losing to a #31 ranked team in a bowl game proves that you are better:

    2005: Utah (7-5) 41 @BYU (6-6) 31

    Utah 38 GTech 10 (pre bowl AP #24 - post bowl AP unranked)

    BYU 28 Cal 35 (pre bowl AP #31 - post bowl AP #25)

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 9:36 a.m.

    Uteology

    Since when are you the authority to decide what criteria is used to determine the "pace horse(s)" for the MWC.

    Bowl games are only one criteria. Conference championships and Top 25 rankings are equally, if not more, important.

    It's laughable that you insist on using pre-bowl and pre-season rankings for opponents, but choose to completely ignore final rankings.

    Based on AP Top 25 finishes from 2005 to 2010, while BYU, TCU and, Utah were all in the MWC, Utah was clearly only the 3rd best team in the conference:
    TCU 6
    BYU 4
    Utah 2

    Based on conference championships:
    TCU 4
    BYU 2
    Utah 1

    Utah had one great year with their BCS bowl winning team and a Top 5 finish, but BYU had three very good years with 11-2 seasons and three Top 15 finishes.

    You can claim that 11-2 isn't all that great, but to put an 11-win season into perspective, aside from Utah's 2004 and 2008 undefeated seasons, Utah has never had another 11-win season.

    In the final Sagarin ratings for 2005
    #51 Utah(7-5) #76 SOS
    #55 BYU(6-6) #65 SOS

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Aug. 20, 2013 10:10 a.m.

    TrueBlue

    So Utah had a slightly better record and ranking with a slightly easier schedule in 2005, one of only three of eight seasons during the Bronco/Kyle era where Kyle has finished with a better record and higher ranking than Bronco.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    Aug. 20, 2013 3:16 p.m.

    @trueblue..."Bowl games are only one criteria. Conference championships and Top 25 rankings are equally, if not more, important."

    Really thats more important then undefeated seasons and BCS bowl wins? I think you would be about the only person along with a few other cougie fans that would say that.

    I'm pretty sure there aren't fan's, players, coaches, etc. out there saying I really hope we finish number 25 this year instead of going undefeated and winning a BCS bowl game...LOL In fact most your fan base quested to do exactly what Utah did twice unfortunatley for Bronco and the questing fan's though the team/program is just not good enough to accomplish what Utah has over the last decade.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 20, 2013 9:55 p.m.

    2b

    Regardless of which bowl you win, the final ranking is the final word on the season, so yes, Top 25 ranking trumps BCS bowl win.

    Ohio State, which didn't even play in a bowl, finished #3 in the final AP poll in 2012, ahead of Rose Bowl winner #7 Stanford, Orange Bowl winner #10 Florida State, and Sugar Bowl winner #13 Louisville, so yes, Top 25 ranking does trump BCS bowl winner.

    #3 > #7 > #10 > #13

    Slice it anyway that helps you sleep at night, but it doesn't matter which bowl you win if you finish lower in the polls.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Aug. 21, 2013 10:34 a.m.

    2BCSWINS6RankedFinishesEver...

  • Cool Cat Cosmo Payson, UT
    Aug. 22, 2013 5:05 p.m.

    And if pigs just had wings, they could fly!

    Really, this is stating the blatantly obvious, joining such classic phrases as:

    "If I just had more money, I wouldn't have to budget so carefully!"
    "If it rained more, I wouldn't have to water my lawn!"

    and so on...NEXT!

  • FDRfan Sugar City, ID
    Oct. 15, 2013 10:59 a.m.

    I don't see how BYU could feel good about accepting a bowl bid unless they beat either Boise State, Notre Dame or Wisconsin. If they win all 3 they deserve a major bowl game. I believe they can and certainly hope they will.