Currently, byu's football season is essentially over with the fist loss.For example, last year when the University of Utah beat byu, the Utes
essentially ended byu's season.Although I can't say a WAC
2.0(MWC) championship is any better than independence.Outside of a
power conference championship, a "championship" is only ever talked
about or cared about by people in that conference.Either way, byu is
"out" of the national picture
Honestly it's 6's in all reality. A WAC 2.0 MWC championship is
nothing to brag about.I'm frankly a little embarrassed I used
to get excited about MWC championships and MWC games.And that was
back when BCS quality programs Utah and TCU were part of the league.Yes now Boise is added. But you lost 2 BCS quality programs and gained 1.So the MWC(which is the only league that would accept byu) is worse now
than it was before.I think the MWC is better off without byu(no
prima donnas in league currently) and it winning the MWC championship isn't
really something to brag about in the first place.So basically it
doesn't matter what byu chooses. Either way its not really notable.
I think being independent is the next best thing to being in a power conference.
If I had to choose between a power conference and independence I would choose
the power conference hands down, if for nothing other than recruiting. In the
Big 12 BYU would play the big teams week in and week out while still having a
shot at a conference title and individual all-conference awards and accolades.
I love independence for now, but I want to be in a major conference
at some point. Yes, Utah fans, this is a Cougar fan admitting that between your
position and independence, I'd take your position. Unfortunately for U,
your position still doesn't make U a better program than BYU so I am, and
will always be Cougar blue.
This article brings up a few decent points, but completely misses the target.Giles' attempt to minimize the significance of conference
championships is disingenuous. And it tells us what we already know.1. Yes, the Independence schedules are better than the MWC schedules.2. Yes, the MWC was an insignificant conference.3. Utah and BYU
basically ran the leagueHowever, the same argument does NOT hold up
when talking about membership in a Big 5 conference.Scheduling as an
independent is better than playing in the MWC. however, scheduling some
good-to-great games as an independent is not better than playing as part of the
Pac 12 or big 12.
One of the great things BYU has going for itself is that it doesn't have to
worry if the system will give it a chance to play against the big boys. It
already will be playing BCS-type games during the season.------------This season yes, what about in the future? No idea, considering the Big 5 (the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, SEC and Pac-12) are
pushing to create another division in college football.
What a shocker. The Chrissy's were the first to add their meaningful
observations.I found this hilarious: "Outside of a
power conference championship, a "championship" is only ever talked
about or cared about by people in that conference." Outside any
conference, no one cares about who the conference champions are. It is just
like naming who won the third place BCS bowl in 2003...No one
cares.This one is good too:"when the University of
Utah beat BYU, the Utes essentially ended byu's season."Really? In what regard? In your mind? BYU had at least five other teams to
look forward to. In fact, I would suggest that real football players looked
forward to all the games.When you add both the chrissy comments
together you also get:"winning the MWC championship isn't
really something to brag about in the first place."So I guess
because conference championships mean everything,I mean nothing, but the MWC
championship meant nothing anyway...the u has nothing to brag
about.(Once again, no one cares who won the 3rd place BCS bowls)
Chrissy "So basically it doesn't matter what byu chooses. Either way
its not really notable."And yet notable enough for you to double spout
an opinion."Either way, byu is "out" of the national
picture"And, in case you've been out of the country for a while
this will come as news to you, your team is out of the PAC-12 championship
picture, and not even mentioned by any reputable news source on the national
Love how ute fans think that being in a big conference is special now that they
are in, but not when they weren't."However, the same
argument does NOT hold up when talking about membership in a Big 5
conference."Yeah cause when I think of college football I
automatically start naming off the winners of the SEC, ACC, Big 10, and Big 12
conference. I love to search out articles on who won those conferences in years
past, and live to watch them play.Do you honestly think that fans
and players sit around all day and worship "power conferences?"
(apparently some u fans do.)At least have a little candor.
Amen. Amen, and amen!
It's laughable that our insecure little friends on the hill have to chime
in every time BYU's status as an Independent is discussed.Except for their twin flash-in-the-pan seasons in 2004 and 2008, the Utes have
ALWAYS been "out" of the national picture, and that hasn't changed
even with Utah's PAC 12 membership.Utah fans continue to delude
themselves with the false claim that Utah's season isn't over because
of one loss. The truth is, the Utes have absolutely no chance of making the
playoffs with a loss. A Utah team not capable of beating BYU or Utah State or
Fresno State has ZERO chance of running the table to win the PAC.Christofer and his friends are just blowing smoke. They have absolutely no
proof that Utah, with an early season loss to BYU or Utah State, would be
included in the mix of playoff teams.They're all talk; the Utes
haven't even proven that they can beat a PAC 12 with a winning record.
funny that when byu and utah were in the MWC, it was all the talk about how
great they were and being conf champs, but now that they are out they try and
downplay the conference.As fans and money aside, most would like
their team to win vs lose.So lose in the pac12, and by lose I mean
doormat lose, or win in the MWC.Lose as an indy and struggle to fill a
schedule every year, or win in the MWC.The MWC is the best non BCS
conference out there.Go Aggies!
IfelSofa,You're trying to beat your chest because once in the
past 20 years you beat us?LOLThere is a reason Utah was
invited to the Pac 12 and usu wasn't.Yes, the MWC is the best
non-BCS conference.And the Pac 12 is much better than the MWC(WAC
2.0)Remember that the MWC lost its best 3 teams.So the
MWC isn't even what the MWC was when we were in it.Its as close
to the WAC as to the former MWC.But you keep enjoying the MWC.Because I LOVE my Pac 12 membership!You'll just have to
trust me though, since you'll never get to experience both!
Tomahawk Red"Giles' attempt to minimize the significance of
conference championships is disingenuous."What's really
disingenuous is the fanbase of a program that's only won 6 conference
championships in the last half century lecturing the fanbase of a program
that's won 23 conference championships in the same time period about the
significance of conference championships.Since when has winning a
conference championship ever been significant to Utah fans.Conference ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 1The sad truth
for U is, BYU has about as much chance of winning a conference championship as
an Independent as Utah has as a member of the PAC.
Bottom line is being in a conference - the right conference - is better than
being independent. How do we know this? Because if independence were the best,
more of the big teams would do it. Alabama hasn't done it. Neither has
Texas, Florida, Ohio St., Oklahoma, or USC. Notre Dame only did it because they
have the best TV deal in the country (all games televised on NBC), and despite
that, word is they are considering joining a conference.If you could
anonymously poll every athletic director in the country about whether they
prefer independence to being in a conference, my guess is it's a 119-0
vote....even Holmoe wants to be in a conference. Why else would he keep
courting the Big 12? If independence were great he wouldn't be making all
these phone calls.
talkinsports"The sad truth for U is, BYU has about as much
chance of winning a conference championship as an Independent as Utah has as a
member of the PAC."Facetious, but true.
chrissyb... not pounding my chest at all, and not comparing the MWC to the pac12
either.what I am saying is that your BEST years were in the MWC and
you are a doormat now. A well paid doormat but a doormat none the less.I dont care how long it has been since the last time we beat you... but until
you beat us... we BEAT you and we are better. We are ranked higher and you make
more money and that's it.You are not a gem to the pac12 you are
a doormat, and every conference has them.Until you do something in
the pac12, you had best not spout off, it makes you look foolish.
christyCurrently, Utah's season is over with opening game
kickoff; the Utes have no realistic chance of winning a PAC title.
I love to debate the finer points of BYU fandom and would love to talk about the
pros and cons of being in a conference...However, When
someone posts repeatedly on the same article...Marking it down with
the same negative comments over and over and over...And does it
using several double spaced lines...Because they want to take as
much space as possible believing it will bring more attention to their post and
somehow validate their negativity...I consider that SPAM and wish it
was not permitted on these discussion boards. Personally, I'm
grateful trolls are permitted to post because it makes for interesting
discussion and personally gives me an excuse to do research on my favorite team.
But having certain poster always having the first (and second and third...)
posts, thereby dictating the direction of the conversation, is getting tiresome.
Does anyone else think there should be a "no troll for the first
ten posts" policy?
BYU's move to Independence has many more plusses than minuses. Nobody
should underestimate the value of BYU's television partnership with ESPN,
something that never would have been possible as a member of the MWC. The only
thing better would be membership in the Big 12.--------------In case you missed it, Tayo Fabuluje has received acceptance into BYU.
Bronco is now able to discuss with Tayo plans for re-joining BYU's football
program. Bronco released Fabuluje from BYU in 2010 allowing him to receive a
scholarship at TCU. Not surprisingly, Coach Patterson didn't reciprocate.
Is it really an advantage to play big boy schools and lose?Giles
should know that BYU has a losing record against teams from power
conferences.Is losing to the big boys really how BYU expects to make
a place for itself in the modern era of college football?
Christopher B"Remember that the MWC lost its best 3 teams.So the MWC isn't even what the MWC was when we were in it."Since adding the u and colorado, the PAC 10 isn even what it used to be.
Crissy,"Because I LOVE my Pac 12 membership!"Good thing because your team is going to be awful.Take pride in
other achievements, ride those coat tails, dip your foot in the well.
You're the new Wyoming of the PAC10.
Chrissy,"You're trying to beat your chest because once in
the past 20 years you beat us?"A little candor please. To show
you are at least trying not to be just a troll.BYU has beaten you
seven (7) times in the last 20 years.And you conveniently left out
that the twenty years before that, you only beat them twice (2).So
lets take your twenty and my twenty and see what will happen this year on the
21st.BYU 25UofU 15It will then be 26 to 15 on te
Am I the only one who noticed that the author of this article graduated from the
University of Utah? It's not BYU fans writing about the insignificance of a
conference championship...it's one of your own."Justin
Giles graduated from the University of Utah with a bachelor's of arts
degree in communications, with an emphasis in journalism and sports
@StuFoo,I'll take any wager you want for the game.I've already said if byu wins I wont post on byu articles all season.In fact I've said the same thing the last 3 seasons.Ive
posted all season the last 3 seasons.I'll be posting all
season.And reminding you I was rightUtah 30byu
14Mark it Down
BYU and the U dominated the MWC? You have to add the 2nd place team, 3rd, 4th,
and 5th to get more championships than BYU. BYU dominated the MWC, 2-6th place
were very close to each other, not BYU.I hope BYU gets into a top 5
conference. I would hate for them to be left out if any big changes take place.
Apart from the risk of being left out, independence is great. Love seeing all
the games on TV and love the variety of teams BYU plays.
@ STuFOO"when the University of Utah beat BYU, the Utes
essentially ended byu's season.""Really? In what
regard? In your mind? BYU had at least five other teams to look forward to. In
fact, I would suggest that real football players looked forward to all the
games"Utah handing BYU it's first loss of the season ended
any hopes of BYU playing in BCS bowl. That loss to Utah kicked the overrated
Cougars out of the top 25 and secured their fate of playing in a third tier
Poinsettia Bowl. You may have other games to look forward to, but BYU isn't
playing for anything special in the post season.
howeird s."Giles should know that BYU has a losing record
against teams from power conferences."Since he's a Utah
graduate, Giles should be even more familiar with Utah's pathetic record
against power conference teams with winning records. Since joining
the PAC, the Utes are 0-9 against PAC teams with winning records, and the Utes
have lost to TWO PAC teams with losing records.In fact, the ONLY
power conference team with a winning record that Utah has beaten since becoming
a "big boy", is Georgia Tech, ranked #56 by Sagarin.Is
constantly losing to the big boys really how Utah expects to make a place for
itself in the PAC?The Utes haven't won a road game against a
PAC foe with a winning record since 1997, yet howeird is delusional enough to
believe that his Utes are anything more than a PAC doormat.
@ talkinsports"What's really disingenuous is the fanbase of
a program that's only won 6 conference championships in the last half
century lecturing the fanbase of a program that's won 23 conference
championships in the same time period about the significance of conference
championships"And once again we have a Y'ner that likes to
use selective stats that would bend in his teams favor. Conference championships
are very rewarding in any era of College Football especially for the players who
work their tails off all year to achieve a goal. Conference
championships since the beginning of College Football:Utah 24BYU 23
Let's be realistic, independence is only viable as compared to the WAC and
MWC. BYU would die to get into one of the power conferences. It's nice to
play good teams. Wouldnt it be nicer to do it in the Big 12? This article
clearly misses the mark!
Howard S.I have said it before and I will say it again.Do you even understand college football?EVERYTHING Changes. If it
weren't you wouldn't be bragging about ANY u accomplishments.Everything can change in a season. It did for the u, now oyu got a big had
and think it can't happen to anyone else.Nice.
Hey howie, remind me what Utahs record has been against the big boys since you
crawled into the PAC after Texas turned them down. As soon as you beat a PAC
team with a winning record you can start throwing stones!
Chrissy,"I'll take any wager you want for the game."Fine. If BYU loses I won't post on uofu article, ever again. (I
guess I would have to read one first....)If BYU wins, you put your
real name and phone number on every BYU board that allows it.
@ STuFOO"Since adding the u and colorado, the PAC 10 isn even
what it used to be."No, since adding Utah and Colorado the
Pac-10 now 12 has gotten better. The Pac-12 since expansion has consistently put
2 teams in the BCS every year. Since expansion, the Pac-10 now 12 is no longer
USC's conference. Other teams in our conference have stepped up to the
plate to not only beat USC, but win the Pac-12 and the Rose Bowl Game. It's
just a matter of time when Utah and Colorado make their mark and become
competitive in the Conference of Champions. Only jealous Y fans desperately hope
they fail to make the Y's exclusion from being invited better. Poor little
Howard S.Can you please remind all of us from the TDS how many BCS teams
with winning records the Utes have beaten the last two years while in the PAC
12? So you are correct it takes winning against the big boys not just playing
them that people remember and think of as accomplishments!!! BYU is not there
yet but I am really looking forward to seeing them play a great schedule this
year!!! I will also be watching to see how the Utes do!!! Looking forward to the
Holy War in Sept. I think BYU has a really good chance to end the Utes
streak!!!Go CougsGo UtesGo Aggies
@howie"Is it really an advantage to play big boy schools and
lose?"You tell us? utah hasn't beaten any "big boy"
schools in half a decade and don't appear to be anywhere near doing so for
another half a decade.
Bleed,Classic utah logic..."It's just a matter
of time when Utah and Colorado make their mark and become competitive in the
Conference of Champions."Yet, BYU can't ever have good
years, beat uofu, make it to the national stage, blah, blah, blah blah...ute logic. "It magically happened to us, but won't happen to
anyone else."Look, the ONLY argument a u fan has that makes any
sense is that you beat us last year. that it. You have nothing else.
Everything else is somebody else in the conference you were invited in.Stop pounding your chest like the u is special. U'r not.There is a reason that when ESPN did their report on the PAc 12 south, you got
exactly 2 minutes. Even Colorado got more time than u.The thing
about flashes in the pan are that they hold no luster and are easily forgotten.
Only utah fans know who won the third place BCS bowls in 2004 and 2008, no one
else cares.No bowl, no respect, no preseason press.I
don't hope u fail in the PAC 12. u already did that.
Giles reminds me of the pitcher who won his first Cy Young award and was
reported commenting that he and Nolan Ryan had 7 between them.Without skiing, gymnastics and bb Utah isn't even on the board. At least
they had the urban era.
Bleed CrimsonNot "selective" stats, but MEANINGFUL stats.MEANINGFUL conference championships won in a conference where beating
Wyoming, Denver, Colorado Mines, and Colorado College wasn't considered a
"conference championship":BYU 23Utah 6The
truth is, as soon as Utah joined a conference with some half-decent competition,
the WAC, the Utes dropped completely off the conference championship map - TWO
championships in 37 years in the WAC.
Bleed Crimson"Utah handing BYU it's first loss of the
season ended any hopes of BYU playing in BCS bowl."You have
absolutely no way of proving that. It's very possible that an
11-1 BYU, with FIVE wins versus Top 25 teams, three of them on the road,
including at Notre Dame, would have been ranked in the Top 5, certainly high
enough to receive an at-large BCS bowl bid.
@ Howard S"Is losing to the big boys really how BYU expects to
make a place for itself in the modern era of college football?"Well, Howard, you're in the unique position of answering that question in
that is the real life position your Utes are in right now. Even better, you
don't have to deal in hypothetical's since your Utes have lost like
90% or greater of its PAC-12 games. So, Howard, now that you have a bit of
experience losing to just about every big boy team in the PAC-12 the past two
years, can you tell us if losing to the big boys week in and week out really how
Utah expects to make a place for itself in the modern era of college football?
Look at the graphic: BYU won 140 championships, Utah was down with the rest of
the pack. Yet the writer tries to lump Utah in with BYU as far as
championships. The graphic made it very clear that BYU's athletics were
out of place in the MWC, while Utah fit right in. Meanwhile,
millions of dollars of taxpayer subsides every year went into the Ute program.
Millions of dollars of taxpayer subsidies are still going to the UU athletic
department every year - despite the BCS money. It is time for the Utah Taxpayer
to get a return on their investment, and subsidies of all BCS athletic
departments to end.
Serious? Are we having this discussion again???Truth in advertising
first: yes, being invited to a BCS conference, on BYU's terms, would be
better than independence. Today, not so much, tomorrow doesn't look good
either. Being independent is FAR better than being in the MWC. Even
if it was on BYU's terms, independence is still better. Much better. THAT
is what this article says. He did not imply what you inferred. BYU
has been good, really good sometimes, but never quite great. Utah fans love to
dispute whether our national championship (yes, that ancient history) was all
that good. Utah has been great twice, otherwise surrounded by mediocrity. And
lately not even that. U TALK like you went from being great in the
MWC, to hard times with a really, really tough schedule. Reality is, U were
mediocre in the MWC, mediocre in the PAC with an easy schedule, then worse, and
NOW you are finally you g to face that brutal, game in, game out schedule.
Good luck!The bottom tier of any BCS conference is NOT BCS quality.
Most don't understand the full extent of why BYU went Independent. The move
had less to do with whom BYU would play football with than it did to retain
media rights to all its sports for rebroadcasting internationally as well as in
the US. BYU is a global brand. BYU is the most recognized college sports brand
in South America and Africa. Its market share in Europe and Asia is expanding.
This was all based on reruns of pre-MWC games. Think Utah fans are sick and
tired of 1984? Well in Chile they relived that season year after year after
year. BYU needed more programming for its international audience. The MWC was
not going to give BYU media rights for rebroadcasting, and so far the Big 12
hasn't found a solution to BYU's unique need.In order for
BYU to rejoin a league for football it would need to be excluded from Sunday
play and to retain broadcast rights it currently holds. The first precluded the
PAC. The second precludes the Big12.
Howard S. "Is it really an advantage to play big boy schools and
lose?"Please tell us. U are more used to losing it than most
140 championships to how many??? Pretty clear which is the real university in
MWC ChampionshipsBYU = 140The next three teams (Utah 49
+ UNLV 38 + UNM 35) COMBINED = 122It's clear who really
dominated the MWC!
Steven S Jarvis"In order for BYU to rejoin a league for football
it would need to be excluded from Sunday play and to retain broadcast rights it
currently holds. The first precluded the PAC. The second precludes the
Big12."byu "needs" this and byu "needs"
that...keep telling yourself that it clearly helps ease the pain. Then consider
this - - The Pac-10 "needed" an institution that fit a specific academic
and research profile. The Pac-10 identified their "needs" and made the
changes accordingly. The bar was too high for byu, hence, byu was not a
consideration. The discussion did not get to byu and Sunday play because there
was no discussion about byu. End of story.
@MyperspectiveFunny. I recall the PAC10 wanted Texas and Oklahoma.
Utah was what they ended up accepting because the prettier girls all turned them
down. So far that invitation hasn't worked out so well for the Utes
besides gymnastics. Hopefully that will change at some point. However, this is
an article about BYU, not a school that discovered "cold fusion" as its
most memorable research moment. BYU doesn't want to be in the
PAC 12. Sure most of BYU fans wanted an invite. I didn't. I don't
believe the brethren want BYU in the PAC unless those two things BYU needs are
met before joining a conference. I knew a little more about the push for
Independence from my father who worked for BYU and why it happened because of
his connections to the media department. How much value is a
football game re-broadcast? To BYU that right is too important to give up. The
games around the world are used as a missionary tool which furthers the mission
of the church. BYU has a global reach. No other college program has as much
influence globally, not even Notre Dame.
RE: Steven S. JarvisGood points about the rebroadcasting rights.
BYU truly does cater to a global audience... but I believe it is more than that.
BYU's reach within the U.S. has grown considerably with independence.
Just look at the football recruits we signed in the last three seasons (since
going independent). Not only are they coming from all around the country, but
we're finally starting to attract non-LDS athletes who want to be at BYU
(pick BYU over other solid BCS programs). This is certainly a new era for BYU
football and I think independence is working out fine. I'm with you in
agreement that we're better off Indy than we would be in the PAC12. Go
This is just proof Utah should just quit sports.
As someone that lives in PAC 12 country, I would like to have seen BYU, Utah
& TCU stay in the MWC. The conference was on the way up and getting noticed
on the field. College football needs another voice out west besides the PAC
12.I don't like where college football is going on the D1
level. The big 5 conferences are taking the academics out of athletics and
replacing it with money. They are making rules and the NCAA is following.
Eventually they could break away with their own football league, and take other
revenue generating sports with them, while folding the rest.Sure I
poke fun at BYU. If they don't join a conference, there is not much future
in D1 for them. Unless they take a step backwards and rejoin the MWC or play
indie with FBS schools and such where they have played football playoffs for
years.It's become more clear what the big 5s intentions are.
Not sure I'm interested in following them down the road.
Regardless of how the Utes do, I would rather pay to see them play Pac-12 teams
like USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon et al. than the MWC teams likeWyoming, New
Mexico, Colorado State, San Diego State et al. Even if Utah loses more than it
wins, I am still seeing better football in the long run. I bought season tickets
to see Utah in the Pac-12 which I never would have done were they still in the
MWC.It is the difference between playing in the Big Leagues vs.
playing in the Minor Leagues.
Football is entertainment and money, not life. If BYU must drop their religious
identity, play on Sunday and become just another secular university, invitations
from the PAC 12 or other conferences have no appeal. No, BYU would not fall over
themselves if the PAC 12 came calling.
I agree, agree, agree the move to independence was a must after Utah's
departure. An invitation to the PAC-12 along with Utah would have been ideal,
but it didn't happen.But I sure miss the visits to the Air
Force Academy every other year.Maybe a few home-and homes with AFA
and Colorado would be good.
Another cop out about BYU going independent. If independence is so great why
didn't they do it sooner? They could have still had the Holy War and have
played the against the big boys going as far back as '84. Truth is they
were happy winning title after title in the WAC and they could have done it in
the MWC minus Utah and TCU. All this article did was undermine everything BYU
accomplished in the WAC and MWC.