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BYU football: Unique aspects of BYU helped sway 2 non-LDS commits, Cedric Dale and Nick Kurtz

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  • Black&Blue St George, Utah
    Aug. 11, 2013 3:59 p.m.

    Nick Kurtz is a HUGE get. And Dale looks like a versatile speedster that could help on either side of the ball...
    There is a lot of reason to be excited about the direction the programm is headed.

  • dahomes Phoenix, AZ
    Aug. 11, 2013 4:20 p.m.

    Hmm, Chris B told me that BYU would never get good talent because of the restrictive religious pressures in Provo. This sounds like a mistake. Someone who is NOT Mormon chose to come to BYU BECAUSE of the morals, values, and to play some good football? Whooosh! (mind blown)

  • CougarOnTheProwl Murray, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 5:02 p.m.

    Welcome Cedric and Nick! I look forward to watching both of you play at BYU.

    Best of luck to both of you!

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Aug. 11, 2013 5:04 p.m.

    What a great couple of young men... Not only great Football Players, but Great Football Players with Substance and Smarts... They will be huge contributers to our Program and I can't wait to see them in Blue...

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 5:09 p.m.

    And how many athletes have not even looked at byu or been prevented from finishing their career due to byu's "unique" environment?

    LOL!

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 5:31 p.m.

    Chris,

    You can lol all you want but this flies in the face of everything you have touted about BYU recruiting. BYU doesn't have to get every non-Mormon recruit. What a ridiculous comment.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    Aug. 11, 2013 5:34 p.m.

    I was hoping to get on here before the snarky comments started... Oh well.

    I think the beauty of this story is that BYU is beginning to see the benefits of doing that which it really doesn't have a choice in anyway.

    There may be thousands of gifted athletes who will choose NOT to come to BYU because of the standards it upholds. They have hundreds of other schools to choose from.

    But there are tens, and maybe hundreds, of gifted athletes who will CHOOSE an environment like BYU BECAUSE of those same standards. As awareness of BYU rises, and make no mistake, awareness of BYU IS rising, those coming in ones and twos will increase in number, athleticism, and commitment to higher values.

    THAT is a positive thing. I hope it doesn't ruin anyone's day.

  • Physics27 Cedar City, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 5:52 p.m.

    Even Wes Welker couldn't convince him not to come to BYU. Sounds like a kid who knows what he wants. Glad to have both of them.

  • wazzup Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 5:55 p.m.

    Chris B.............tell us about what is unique about your college choice? That's my point, there is nothing unique. Some will like the unique nature of BYU others will not. Some will look at their school of choice to how it will prepare them for the future as men. Some will not.

    Remind me again what your point was? Because it made no sense.

  • SoCalTrueBlue San Diego, CA
    Aug. 11, 2013 6:00 p.m.

    Excited to see the contributions these two recruits will make with their rare combination of physical skills, good judgment, and high personal character.

  • Black&Blue St George, Utah
    Aug. 11, 2013 6:25 p.m.

    Hey Chris,

    What happened? Nick Kurtz picked BYU over Oregon and Kansas state.
    Perhaps BCS membership holds a little less weight than you have been touting? This is BYU's 3rd commitment this week. And all 3 are 3-star + recruits with multiple BCS school offers.

    How do you explain this?

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 7:01 p.m.

    The athletes with multiple BCS offers are choosing BYU. The inferiority complex must be growing by leaps and bounds, eh chris.

  • BYU Fan in DC Washington, DC
    Aug. 11, 2013 7:03 p.m.

    Nice pick ups. Can everyone from this point on ignore this Chris B fellow. He obviously just sits and refreshes this DesNews site all day hoping to throw in some snide comment. He seems to like that BYU fans (as well as a bunch of Utah fans) hate his comments. Lets just act like he is that annoying little brother who we dont want to play with until he runs to tell mom.

    Go BYU!

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    Aug. 11, 2013 7:09 p.m.

    BYU is incredibly attractive to athletes who believe a religious life is the preferred life. Welcome to BYU guys where you can play some nationally recognized and respected football AND not have to sacrifice your standards! Enjoy ESPN, enjoy playing big time games, enjoy playing across the nation, enjoy going to bowl games, enjoy seeing that NC trophy on campus. Go get another one!!!

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 7:24 p.m.

    Not everyone chooses to play against the best possible competition... USC and Oregon for example...

    Some have other priorities... nothing wrong with that.

  • ed in atl Duluth, GA
    Aug. 11, 2013 7:35 p.m.

    Hey guys don't forget that we have guys coming in to walk on that are not LDS, like the kid from Marietta, GA's Kell High School because he likes the program and what it stands for.
    Go Cougars! Can't wait to go to Charlottesville!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 7:36 p.m.

    Nick Kurtz is a HUGE pickup for BYU. Great size, great hands, great speed. A solid 4 star receiver who just visited Oregon 2 days ago, and both Oregon & TT were coming hard for him, while Kentucky and Kansas St were coming fast and hard to...he visited K State a week ago. I guess he saw everything in BYU he was looking for, and spurned some of the bigger programs in the country for the Y. Congrats Mendenhall & BYU for one of the bigger commits this year. I look forward to seeing both of these guys in Cougar blue.

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 7:47 p.m.

    I don't know, Chris B. You must know, since you seem to know everything about BYU. Tell us, how many?

  • Atrix Vancouver, WA
    Aug. 11, 2013 7:47 p.m.

    “College is about becoming a better man, a better student and a better football player, and BYU is the school that will help me do that most.”

    What else needs to be said, this kid summed it up pretty good. Who cares that other schools send more to the NFL. There are more important things in life than football and the NFL, BYU just provides the best balance.

    If you prefer life in the PAC-10.2 or SEC go for it. Leave space on BYU's roster for those who want to develop as Nick and Cedric have chosen. Welcome to BYU boys!

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Aug. 11, 2013 7:48 p.m.

    I'm with you BYU Fan in DC. This is the last time I will type the name of Chris B. Hopefully others will join our ignore campaign. Utah will always be a rival, but most fans there are not hateful, snide or obsessed. It was probably a couple of these trolls who really got Max Hall all fired up a couple of years ago.

    I really like the talent and potential of the recruits we are getting. Three great commitments this week. I thought Hoffman and Apo were tall WRs, but Mathews and Kurtz will tower over them.

  • kaspercasey gilbert, AZ
    Aug. 11, 2013 7:49 p.m.

    Nice pick up! BYU seems pretty stacked at receiver this year and it seems like that trend will continue.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    Aug. 11, 2013 8:12 p.m.

    The train rolls on. It no doubt is getting under the skin of you know who. The boys up north can only sit and watch, and they don't like what they see.

    Good times coming - go Cougars!!

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Aug. 11, 2013 8:30 p.m.

    RE: Howard S.

    "Not everyone chooses to play against the best possible competition... USC and Oregon for example...

    Some have other priorities... nothing wrong with that."

    Yeah, because Texas, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Michigan, Boise State, and Nebraska are horrible competition. Oh, and BYU is playing USC, so I guess Oregon must trump all of the previously mentioned teams. No wonder Kurtz turned down Oregon for BYU. No brainer.

  • BYU78 McLean, VA
    Aug. 11, 2013 8:39 p.m.

    The world according to Howard S: "Not everyone chooses to play against the best possible competition... USC and Oregon for example..."

    Good try, Howie. We're playin' USC. And Stanford. And not just them, but Notre Dame. And Texas. And Wisconsin, Nebraska, Georgia Tech, Michigan, Virginia, etc. Join the Y, play the college football world in four different time zones, on readily accessible national TV just about every week, not just on the West Coast on sideband satellite channel 2187b. Young Mr. Kurtz wishes to take part. His family wishes to see him every week! A wise young man and a happy family! Welcome aboard, Mr. Kurtz!

  • BYU78 McLean, VA
    Aug. 11, 2013 8:45 p.m.

    Chrissy bleats: "And how many athletes ... (have) been prevented from finishing their career due to byu's "unique" environment?"

    Chrissy, can you actually document one player who couldn't access the wide world of college football, in Division 1, 2, or 3, amongst 300+ teams -- because of insidious, evil BYU blocking them from doing so???? Names and dates, please -- you're going to have a tough time wetting a crying towel on this one, hon. But here, I'm charitable tonight, so I'll give you a head start ...

    Waaaahhhhhhhhhhh............... :-)

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Aug. 11, 2013 8:48 p.m.

    Howard S.

    "Not everyone chooses to play against the best possible competition... USC and Oregon for example..."

    or against some of the worst competition... Washington State and Colorado, for example.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    Aug. 11, 2013 9:11 p.m.

    It seems that these two men had a strong connection to BYU, as much for the atmosphere as for the football program, and made commitments to the Cougs. As a Utah fan, I have a simple two part comment.

    First congratulations to both the school and the athletes. I hope this works out well.

    Second, having some non LDS players (or non Catholic player at Notre Dame) can only help diversify the program which is good for everyone.

  • Cougar Claws Lindon, UT
    Aug. 11, 2013 10:35 p.m.

    There is no doubt that Cedric Dale could be a good weapon at RB, but when you consider his talents and abilities, along with what BYU's needs are, and quite frankly where this kid could contribute the most, I think BYU has got to play him at corner. Seriously, when you look at how deep the current backfield is and how badly BYU needs depth at corner, he could be a star there if he stays patient. He could be the next Jordan Johnson in the next couple years and start, he may even be better than Jordan Johnson in the future. That is where he will shine the most. If he plays running back, he'll just be another convert on third down, play out of the slot, contribute on special teams guy. He won't be the every down guy, he just won't. If BYU plays him at corner, though, he could be THE guy in a couple years.

  • shorts Payson, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 6:55 a.m.

    re:CO Ute
    parker, CO

    Thanks good comment

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 7:10 a.m.

    "Not everyone chooses to play against the best possible competition... USC and Oregon for example..."

    Do you say the same thing about football players who play ON the Oregon team?

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 8:06 a.m.

    Much better recruiting year compared to the past couple of years. Kurtz had 7 offers from BCS schools (according to Rivals). Compare that to last years recruits. Of the 31 listed on Rivals Kearsley had 8 BCS offers and the other 30 had a total of 9!

    So glad we won't have to play against him! (Assuming he comes in and plays in 2014 and 2015) Not afraid of him, I'm just glad we won't be playing the Y those years! I wonder who Michigan recruits?

  • thebigsamoan Richmond, VA
    Aug. 12, 2013 8:35 a.m.

    @ Co Ute,

    "...having some non LDS players (or non Catholic player at Notre Dame) can only help diversify the program which is good for everyone."

    Simply classy and oozing in civility! Thanks!!!

    Go Cougars! And go Utes too...(after we put a hurtin on y'all hopefully come Sept!) Keeping my fingers crossed but definitely not holding my breath! Those 300+lbs poly mammoths on the Utes o line worries me a lot! Dang, wished they hadn't all chose Utah. Hope they tear up the PAC 12 though after we beat them. Wouldn't that be sweet! Let the season begins! Got tickets already for the Virginia game and I can't wait.

  • Utes11 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 12, 2013 9:49 a.m.

    Wow,
    BYU hopes to compete for a "National Championship" by competing for recruits with Texas Tech, Colorado State, Nevada-Reno and North Texas.........good luck with that. You will be fortunate to beat Weber State.

  • TexasTrueBlue FT WORTH, TX
    Aug. 12, 2013 9:55 a.m.

    I know Sterling Castlemain (he is currently on a mission in Russia)and have seen Cedric play - he is fast and will be a huge asset to the team. Getting excited for the future and this season - Go Cougs!!

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Aug. 12, 2013 10:00 a.m.

    RE: Howard S.

    "Not everyone chooses to play against the best possible competition... USC and Oregon for example..."

    I apologize for my earlier post. For some reason I thought you were trying to slam BYU and their upcoming opponents. Upon re-reading your post I see that you're simply pointing out that USC and Oregon choose not to "play against the best possible competition." I looked it up and sure enough, Oregon's SOS is ranked #58 and faces the formidable Nicholls State, Colorado, Utah, and Washington State. USC plays a marginally better schedule but also faces Colorado, Utah, and Washington State. My bad.

    Go Cougs!

  • Pavalova Surfers Paradise, AU
    Aug. 12, 2013 10:12 a.m.

    Sometimes blind squirrels do get nuts from time to time. That's how BYU got these guys from much better BCS schools. Not bad for a for a school full of choir boys and doily seamstresses.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Aug. 12, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    Y'all like that stadium where Cedric Dale is doing his workout at the Nike Training Camp? That's our $60M Allen High School Stadium in Allen, TX. Seats 18K+. Kind-of a nice facility..... :-)

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Aug. 12, 2013 11:04 a.m.

    Pavalova

    "Sometimes blind squirrels do get nuts from time to time."

    Like Utah being invited to be cannon fodder in a big boy conference.

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Aug. 12, 2013 11:57 a.m.

    That's the point. BYU is not all about football. We, as fans, sometimes forget that. Though I would love another Championship, I would rather not have one than give up the morals that BYU stands for. I like this young man's thinking and it will grow on others. I am going to watch BYU football no matter what happens with their record. Time will make us better and that Chris B, you can mark it down!

  • The Solution Las Cruces, NM
    Aug. 12, 2013 12:02 p.m.

    Two important keys in this article:

    1. Cedric Dale was influenced by his fellow Mormon QB that "...everyone looked up to." The influence every member makes in high school can greatly impact a decision of a highschool grad.

    2. Cedric Dale plans to go back to Texas to promote BYU to other Christians who do not know what they would be getting at BYU. We can expect to see more of this when non-LDS players have a good experience at BYU. That is why situations like Joe Sampson last year, who felt compelled to backup Zac Stout in an off-campus fight that saw both of them kicked off the football team, are so devastating. Stout is LDS, and he should have tried to be a better influence and example of good standards.

  • Surf is Up Miami, FL
    Aug. 12, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    Howard S.
    "Not everyone chooses to play against the best possible competition... USC and Oregon for example..."

    Howard, thanks for at least having the common sense to not put Utah in that list of supposed "best
    competiton". But it would have been great comic relif if you had.

    We all know that there is not much parity between the top of the 12 PAC (pretty much USC and Oregon) and the middle (Stanford & UCLA) and the bottom (utah, Colorado, WSU).

    Actually even the upper tier PAC teams can be beaten. The PAC aint what it used to be

    I applaud the recruting staff and BYU as a university for attracting athletes like this. Its only going to get better.

    It scares the trolls silly, and its fun to watch.

  • Jrod Gman Clearfield, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 12:23 p.m.

    @Yewts11

    Clarence Smith

    Doh!

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    Aug. 12, 2013 12:39 p.m.

    Excuse me. WHO is "Chris B"?

  • sid 6.7 Holladay, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 1:25 p.m.

    Great pickups on both accounts for the Cougars.

  • pm2215 Clearfield, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 1:58 p.m.

    Howard S - "Not everyone chooses to play against the best possible competition... USC and Oregon for example...

    Some have other priorities... nothing wrong with that."

    Yes some would rather just play against the cupcakes of the NCAA like Notre Dame, Texas, Michigan, Wisconsin, Boise State, Nebraska, and USC(2019,2021). Pansies!!

  • Dnquixote Las Vegas, NV
    Aug. 12, 2013 2:44 p.m.

    These boards have become a lame predictable battle between BYU fans and Chris B. Unfortunate. (Now everyone can argue with Chris B. over that statement.)

    P.S. I admit I hate it when BYU fans make negative comments on Utah stories.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 3:24 p.m.

    "Unique" is a term often used as a euphemism for weird or strange...

    The "uniqueness" of BYU is occasionally very challenging for those who are fully immersed in the schools culture...

    For those not immersed in the culture of the school it can be even more challenging...

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 3:52 p.m.

    The Cougar Nation appears fairly exercised by my comments about choosing not to play against some of the best schools in the west.

    Let me say this... a few scattered two for one games and one and done games against the upper echelons of college football is not even close to the competitive equivalent of playing back to back conference games against some of best teams in the west... which also happen to among the best teams in the country...

    But... I repeat... I've got absolutely problem with a young man who chooses to pursue other priorities.

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 4:04 p.m.

    Dear Chris B, there are far to many other tings that are far more important in life. We do not need those who feel drinking, drugs and sex are part of their right. They may be talented athletes, but their character is lacking, in my opinion, if that is what is important to them.

    BYU is unique and it needs to stay that way. You are always looking through dark glasses with astigmatism. Take off those glasses and get a glimpse of what counts in life.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 4:40 p.m.

    @howie

    Actually what those players "chose" was to not have to play with influences that they felt were detrimental to their personal advancement. My guess is it has very little, if anything, to do with who the schools are playing against. I'm sure it has much more to do with what they hope to accomplish and become and which place will best help them achieve those things. Many young men simply don't want to have to play or practice on Sunday. Many of them do not wish to be surrounded by other players, or "fans", like yourself whose personal standards are so much lower than their own.

    Young men like these have chosen something better, something greater, something that will help them become great men, not just some guy that partied and played in a particular conference. These guys could go to any of 100 schools and get those things. No these guys want more.

    You wouldn't understand though, you obviously didn't aspire to be great.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 5:36 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    For the record Mr. Duckhunter playing at the highest level of competition and living a life guided by tradition, spirit, and honor are not mutually exclusive.

    And BYU is not the only place where a young man or woman can commit himself or herself to values such as THS.... plently of fine young people compete and live honorable and exemplary lives at schools all across the country.

    Honor and values are not exclusive to BYU.

    As for your judgement of my personal standards... May I just say that know nothing of my personal standards.

    But... I wonder if part of the "uniqueness" of the of the fans and school that you choose to support is embodied in your apparent assumption that those who choose to attend or support a different school have personal values and standards that are inferior to yours.

  • Koloss Hampton, VA
    Aug. 12, 2013 5:46 p.m.

    Last week BYU fans were saying they didn't need 3 or 4 star recruits. Now all they'll talk about is how they just got one of each. I'm glad they've changed their minds though. Now they can except the fact that KVN was a 4 star recruit and is by far their best player.

  • BYU78 McLean, VA
    Aug. 12, 2013 6:12 p.m.

    The World According To Howie (Yet Again!): "But... I repeat... I've got absolutely problem (sic) with a young man who chooses to pursue other priorities."

    My Answer ( Yet Again!): "Good try, Howie. We're playin' USC. And Stanford. And not just them, but Notre Dame. And Texas. And Wisconsin, Nebraska, Georgia Tech, Michigan, Virginia, etc. Join the Y, play the college football world in four different time zones, on readily accessible national TV just about every week, not just on the West Coast on sideband satellite channel 2187b. Young Mr. Kurtz wishes to take part. His family wishes to see him every week! A wise young man and a happy family! Welcome aboard, Mr. Kurtz!"

    Howie, other than that you were too rattled to quote yourself correctly, your comment said nothing more the second time than it did the first time. BTW, the 2014 recruiting composite (247 Sports, ESPN, Rivals, and Scout) now has us at 50 versus Utah at 62, and moving steadily away. Any other cute comments for us this evening, sport ????

    :-)

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 7:41 p.m.

    @Koloss

    What's with the Straw-man?
    Who said BYU doesn't desire or need 3 and 4 star athletes?

    As of now....
    In 2013's class, BYU has 8 recruits at 3 stars or better, already committed.
    In 2014, BYU has 6 3-star recruits, already committed and it's still very early.

    In 2012, BYU recruited 12 with 3 stars or better, including some 4 stars as well.
    In 2011, BYU recruited 10 with 3 stars of better.....Many of these players are just off missions.
    In 2010 over 20 3 stars or better.

    Remember..
    Weddle and Krueger...2 stars. (100 million in NFL contracts).
    Kapernick and Flacco (two starting Super Bowl QB's)...3 stars.
    Steve Young, Jerry Rice ...no stars.

    Half the players in the last Super Bowl?....3 stars or less.

    Again, fans of losing programs (U) argue irrelevant minutia.

    Fans of winning programs (Y) argue Tradition, Rankings, Awards, Wins and Losses.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 8:08 p.m.

    @Bluto

    Wins and losses?

    Irrelevant minutia?

    Where does losing 8 of the last 11 fit?

    funny...

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    Aug. 12, 2013 8:15 p.m.

    It's about the coaching and playing, not about the recruiting.

    (But this is a Texss kid, I like the story.)

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 8:47 p.m.

    @BYU78

    Cute comments?

    Only facts...

    For example... reflective of the lack of regard in which the big boys hold BYU football, most of the games you cited are unbalanced schedules in favor of the big boy...

    Let's consider...

    USC - two for one beginning after current recruits are gone
    Stanford - two for on beginning after current recruits are gone
    ND - four for two with no future games scheduled
    Mich - one and done on the road
    Neb - one and done on the road

    Oh... do my eyes my eyes deceive me... after months of the Cougar Nation claiming recruiting rankings don't count... now Mr. BYU78 thinks they do count?

    And finally... a variation of an oldie but a goodie... consider that even in the unlikely event that BYU beats Utah this year they will still have a 67% losing record over the last 12 years.

  • MUSSing with U Baltimore, MD
    Aug. 12, 2013 9:52 p.m.

    howie

    Despite all of your negative spin, these facts remain:

    During the Independent/PAC era:

    Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    Bowl Wins
    BYU 2
    Utah 1

    Average Sagarin Rating
    BYU 30
    Utah 50

    Overall Record
    BYU 18-8
    Utah 13-12

    Since Utah's high water mark in 2008, the Utes have been in steady decline.

    After losing the rivalry this season, U won't even have the head-to-head to beat your gums about, and you've already proven that you don't have anything to beat you gums about in the PAC.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 10:05 p.m.

    @howie

    "USC - two for one beginning after current recruits are gone
    Stanford - two for on beginning after current recruits are gone
    ND - four for two with no future games scheduled
    Mich - one and done on the road
    Neb - one and done on the road"

    And in one ill thought out post you've now exposed your entire "point" to be the falsehood it is. It sounds to me that those games you listed above prove these players have chosen the harder path against the harder competition. They have to play the majority of them on the road, not one for ones.

    LOL!

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 10:35 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    Congratulations... BYU has chosen the path of harder competition... which makes sense given BYU's losing record in Broncos's tenure against the big boys of college football.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 12, 2013 10:50 p.m.

    @MUSSing with U

    You must have inadvertently forgotten BYU's 0-2 record against Utah in independence...

    Oh... and also BYU's 4-6 record against the big boys of college football in the independence era...

    But hey... if you can't tout victories against the big boys at least you've got your winning record against the MWC/WAC/BigSky... and your third tier bowl triumphs...

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Aug. 12, 2013 11:20 p.m.

    Howard S.

    You have inadvertently admitted that Utah's only significant accomplishment since joining the PAC is beating BYU.

    What victories against the "big boys" can Utah tout?

    A 7-point win against 11-loss Colorado? The Utes haven't beaten a single PAC team with a winning record and your "big boy" bowl opponent, Georgia Tech (#56) was ranked more than TWENTY places LOWER than BYU's mid-major bowl opponent, Tulsa (#35).

    A team that wasn't even good enough to beat the lone WAC team on their schedule in order to qualify for a bowl last year, should just keep silent about "3rd-tier" bowls.

    U had a LOSING record against the WAC last season.

    What "tier" is the couch potato bowl?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 7:09 a.m.

    @Rockwell

    It's amusing that BYU has to rely on other teams to do what it can't do for itself...

    Beat Utah...

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 7:17 a.m.

    @Howie

    You lost us all.....at Hello!

    BYU is a National Brand and one of College Football's Legacy Schools.

    A program which has actually won College Football's most coveted hardware.
    National Championship, Heisman, Outland, Davey O'Brien, Doak Walker, Sammy Baugh Trophies, etc...

    College Hall of Famers, Super Bowl and NFL MVP's etc.
    You know the drill...

    Unlike Wannabee Schools (U), it ain't braggin'...because BYU has done it.

    They (BYU) leave arguments of irrelevant minutia, to losing programs.
    i.e. Conference versions of the Washington Generals....in other words...U!

    BYU plays their games on the biggest name in sports...ESPN.
    They also play for their Worldwide fanbase.

    Utah is a Commuter School and a Conference Doormat (every conference must have them) which plays for it's fans, which span from the avenues to 33rd south.

    Tom Lovat Part Deux.... is upon U!
    Go WazzUtes!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 7:29 a.m.

    Howie

    Let it go.
    BYU's Legacy and National Brand is set in stone.
    Get used to it.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 11:10 a.m.

    howie

    It's amusing to watch Utah fans pretend that Utah is one of the "big boys". The truth is, on a national scale, Utah isn't even on the radar - seldom ranked in the Top 25, average Sagarin ranking of #50 since joining the PAC, and banished to the PAC net for most games.

    Utah is a commuter school with a local fan base. BYU is legacy program with a national fan base.

    Not including BYUtv, BYU was the 8th most viewed football team in the country last year. BYU is 18th in number of fans on Twitter. Coincidence? Nope.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    @Bluto

    BYU's last claim to glory was when the parents of a 2014 recruit was about 13 years old...

    Live in the past much?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    @LonestarRunner

    Legacy program?

    Seems odd that a legacy program would be past over by every major conference in the country...

    Unless the legacy is that of a 2nd tier team against 2nd and 3rd tier competition...

    Yeah that would explain why BYU has a consistent losing record when they play the big boys...

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Aug. 13, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    howie

    BYU has no need to live in the past to surpass that flash-in-the-pan program on the hill.

    Since 2006, BYU has been ranked in the AP Top 25 FOUR times (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009), including THREE Top 15 finishes.

    That's almost as many AP Top 25 finishes (five) as the Utes have had in their entire history.

    In the last 7 years, Bronco has had back-to-back-to-back-to-back AP Top 25 finishes. The Utes have NEVER had more than two AP Top 25 finishes in a row.

    The ONLY reason Utah fans whine so much about BYU's glory days being is the past, is because the Utes have no glory days except for 2004 and 2008.

    Even Utah's twin flash-in-the-pan seasons produced precious little in terms of national accomplishments - no National Championships, no Heisman Trophies, no National Individual Award winners, and no Hall of Fame players. A couple of great, undefeated seasons, a couple of nice bowl wins, and a quick fade back to mediocrity after both seasons.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 12:16 p.m.

    Howard S.

    Legacy program? Absolutely.

    As Athlon Magazine called BYU, one of the Top 25 College Football Dynasties of the AP era - 1936 to present.

    A program that been a perennial Top 25 team since 1977 (18 Top 25 Finishes in 36 years - 50%), with 17 AP Top 25 finishes, including a consensus National Championship and a Heisman Trophy winner, the quintessential team and individual major college football awards.

    BYU's all-time winning percentage versus AP Top 25 teams: 21%
    Utah's all-time winning percentage versus AP Top 25 teams: 16%

    That sorry program on the hill has no room to talk when it comes to not being able to play with the big boys; U can't even play with the little boys - two losses to 10-loss teams since 2007, and losses to every MWC bottom dweller during the Bronco/Kyle era.

    Bronco is undefeated versus CSU, Wyoming, New Mexico and UNLV. Kyle lost to all of them.

  • BYU78 McLean, VA
    Aug. 13, 2013 12:19 p.m.

    The World According To Howie: "Oh... do my eyes deceive me... recruiting rankings don't count... now Mr. BYU78 thinks they do count?"

    Howie, my friend! Please show where I have ever suggested that recruiting isn't important. I have been one of the biggest critics of the Y's recruiting performance over the last two recruiting classes, and have waxed sarcastic over the idea that "stars don't matter". Now, however, the scheduling lag has disappeared, and the recruits are starting to flow in. So, rightfully, I point out to you the fruits of this success, for which you -- predictably -- have no valid response. Now please cite where I have ever said anything other than the fact that quality recruits, stacked high and deep, are critical to the success of the program???? Thanks, Howie! Any other generalities for us this afternoon? New material instead of old stuff will be appreciated! Cheers, and Go Cougars!

    :-)

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Aug. 13, 2013 5:21 p.m.

    Nice pick ups! Congrats

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 8:26 p.m.

    @Marked it Down

    Athlons?

    You know very well Mr. Marked it Down that the article you refer to identifies the BYU dynasty ending in 1985...

    Nice try though...

    Oh, and those national rankings.... all based on success against 2nd and 3rd tier competition.

    Which makes sense because everyone knows that when BYU plays top tier competition... they have losing record.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 9:03 p.m.

    @BYU78

    A few observations Mr. BYU78....

    Scheduling lag has disappeared?

    Setting the schedule is the easy part... perhaps you should wait to see how your Cougs perform against a schedule that is a step above 2nd/3rd tier before you claim recruiting success based on schedule...

    Recruits are flowing in?

    No... verbal commits are flowing in... talk to me when the LOIs are signed...

    And finally... BYU has had three poor recruiting classes in a row... that many weak recruiting classes is devastating to a program... think of senior, junior, and sophomore class devoid of talent... not a pretty picture.

    Three bad recruiting classes takes years to recover from... now half way through the current cycle you start claiming success... Good luck with that.

    Oh, and I never said you said stars don't count... I said your Cougar Nation brothers have been saying it for months... until now, of course.

    And as for new material... I know the old material hurts... the truth usually does.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Aug. 13, 2013 9:17 p.m.

    Howard S

    The Athlon's article ranked ALL Dynasties from 1936 to current, which included BYU's 1979-1985 Dynasty; TCU and Boise State were mentioned, but unfortunately for U, the Utes have never had anything that could even remotely be considered a dynasty

    Utah's entire history has been built on 2nd, 3rd and completely off-the-scale competition; that's why Utah has hardly ever been ranked, they've never been anybody.

    All-time records versus Top 25 teams
    BYU AP 15 of 70 (21%); Coaches 16 of 82 (20%)
    Utah AP 14 of 86 (16%); Coaches 15 of 91 (16%)

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 9:45 p.m.

    @talkinsports

    Right... BYU had a moment of glory that ended in 1985... that's 28 years ago... Yet Cougar Nation lives under the perpetual delusion that it was yesterday.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Aug. 13, 2013 11:03 p.m.

    "Athlons?

    You know very well Mr. Marked it Down that the article you refer to identifies the BYU dynasty ending in 1985...

    Nice try though..."

    Ok, how about ESPN's ranking in 2009 of the 25 most prestigious football programs? And that was even in Utah's glory years.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Aug. 14, 2013 7:43 a.m.

    Howard S.

    BYU's "moment" of glory included a National Championship, the very pinacle of major college football achievement, and has been on-going since 1977, with 18 Top 25 finishes in last 36 years 50%, including FOUR straight Top 25 finishes and THREE Top 15 finishes in the last 7 years (over 50%).

    By comparison, the Utes didn't even crack the AP Top 25 until 1994, have only been ranked FIVE times in the final AP in their entire history, and have NEVER had more than TWO AP Top 25 finishes in a row.

    The truth hurts, but here it is. Even at the pinacle of Utah's football success, the Utes never won a single national team or individual award - no National Championship, no Heisman Trophy, no national individual award winners, and no national college football hall of fame players. A couple of nice wins on a stage that will soon be nothing more than a footnote to college football history.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 8:20 a.m.

    @phoenix

    Not only did BYUs fading moment of glory end 28 years ago... it was based on 2nd and 3rd tier competition.

    In fact... all of BYUs success is based on 2nd and 3rd tier competition... because when BYU plays the big boys they have a losing record...

    Now that is truth that has got to hurt...

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Aug. 14, 2013 9:01 a.m.

    Howard S.

    The reason Utah hasn't been ranked more often is because, except for 1964, for first hundred years of Utah's football history, the Utes were 2nd and 3rd tier competition.

    From 1965 to 1991, the Utes never won a conference championship, never played in a bowl, and were never ranked. In fact, the Utes didn't crack the AP Top 25 until 1994, SEVENTEEN years after BYU finished in the Final AP poll for the first time. If it hadn't been for the proliferation of bowls beginning in the 90's, the Utes wouldn't have even qualified for more than a handful of bowls.

    As far as success versus the "big boys".

    BYU's lifetime winning percentage versus ranked teams - 21%.
    Utah's lifetime winning percentage versus ranked teams - 16%.

    Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but if think that anybody is impressed with your "big boy" wins over losing teams like 11-loss Colorado, you're seriously delusional.

    You talk about beating the big boys, yet you can't even beat the little boys - see 10-loss Colorado and 10-loss UNLV, and every bottom-dwelling team in the MWC and WAC.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Aug. 14, 2013 9:02 a.m.

    "Howard S.

    Taylorsville, UT

    @Rockwell

    It's amusing that BYU has to rely on other teams to do what it can't do for itself...

    Beat Utah..."

    Actually, what's amusing is the fact that every other comment on an article about BYU is authored by Howard or Chris.

  • BYU78 McLean, VA
    Aug. 14, 2013 9:59 a.m.

    The World According To Howie, Version 4: "Setting the schedule is the easy part... perhaps you should wait to see how your Cougs perform against a schedule that is a step above 2nd/3rd tier..."

    Howie, dear man, another swing and another whiff! One last try at furthering your education in 200 words or less! Your Utes have had a couple large successes in '04 and '08 in BCS games, against a weak Pitt and an unmotivated Alabama, but overall, and especially against PAC-12 teams, the Cougars you malign have had more success against the big boys. Please remember the following:

    2012: BYU 30 Washington State 6 (WSU not terribly good, but included given Utah's struggles with Colorado)
    2012: BYU 41 Georgia Tech 17 (Georgia Tech good enough to stuff USC in the Sun Bowl)
    2012: BYU 6 Utah State 3 (Utah State > Utah)
    2011: BYU 38 Oregon State 28
    2010: BYU 23 Washington 17
    2009: BYU 14 Oklahoma 13
    2009: BYU 44 Oregon State 20 (bowl)
    2008: BYU 28 Washington 27
    2008: BYU 59 UCLA 0 (Normie's revenge game -- remember?)
    2007: BYU 20 Arizona 7
    2007: BYU 17 UCLA 16 (bowl)
    2006: BYU 38 Oregon 8 (bowl)

    This, of course, is just a partial sample, but you get the point, Howie! Maybe we gotta start playing your league schedule for you, my boy, so we can turn your record around. Let us know ...

    :-)

  • jdub1942 PROVO, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 10:15 a.m.

    From a Utah fan,
    First off, congratulations to these two athletes to making it into a d1 football program, as well as a quality university. Recent events should have taught us all what is more important than our differences, and that is the kids.

    BYU's biggest recruiting advantage, the built in recruiting pool, is a double edged sword as it is also its biggest disadvantage. So when BYU is able to make its "weaknesses become strengths" that is a good thing for them. With the current CFB landscape, while Utah will have better recruiting classes OVERALL, the Y will get some very good players along the way who may or may not be better than their Ute counterparts.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 1:01 p.m.

    @BYU78

    Spin it all you want and use all your allotted 200 words...

    But... the hard truth is that against teams from power conferences BYU has a losing record...

    You know this to be true... and no amount of spinning can change that fact.

    As for Utah's schedule... I know you'd like to play it... But the PAC12 past you over.

    Here's an idea... maybe you should beat Utah before you start offering to play their schedule... does 3 - 8 sound familiar?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 14, 2013 1:07 p.m.

    @phoenix

    A 21% winning record against ranked teams isn't a very good showing for a program that claims a national legacy.

    But it does prove my point that BYU is nothing more than a 2nd tier power against 2nd and 3rd tier competition...

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 14, 2013 2:05 p.m.

    Howard S.

    "A 21% winning record against ranked teams isn't a very good showing for a program that claims a national legacy."

    It's certainly MUCH BETTER than a 16% winning record against ranked teams for a team that claims to be one of the "big boys".

    A for playing against a PAC 12 schedule, the Utes haven't won a road game against a PAC team with a winning record since 1997.

    It's hysterical how much chest beating we see from a team that is WINLESS against winning PAC teams since joining the conference. Not only can't U beat the teams in the upper half of the conference, you can't even beat the teams at the bottom of the conference - lost to 10-loss Colorado, barely beat 11-loss Colorado by 7.

    What makes U think you can compete in the PAC, when you weren't even competitive in the WAC. A couple of flash-in-the-pan seasons haven't changed anything. Denied a bowl berth because you couldn't beat the only WAC team on your schedule.

  • kosimov Riverdale, UT
    Aug. 16, 2013 1:22 p.m.

    I recall that Coach Edwards was once asked how he was able to get such high levels of performance and achievement from what all agreed was not the most stellar group of athletes. While that question was not answered definitively, it did make me think, and wonder what LaVelle would have said if he had answered formally.

    I cam up with a theoretical answer: the BYU athletes always put out 100%, whenever they play. On the other hand, other teams can have athletes who become arrogant due to their talent level, which is usually a "gift", and not something they should claim credit for, who "coast" most of the time unless the game is big enough to get them to try harder.

    During regular season games, BYU is going 100% while others, less than 100%. The Bowl games, though, bring out 100% in every team, so BYU may not have as much success there.

    What do you guys have to say about this subject, about my theory, and whatever you may think is a different reason why BYU can do so well without bunches of "gifted", "superior" athletes every year? I am sincerely interested...