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Mike Sorensen: Ute schedule surpasses BYU's toughest ever slate

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  • Hey Baby Franklin, IN
    July 28, 2013 6:34 p.m.

    Wow...great article...I think it's time to go slaughter me some ducks!!

    Toughest schedule ever...Amen...game over?!!

  • clehman Sandy, UT
    July 28, 2013 6:41 p.m.

    Let the games begin.

  • nwcoug White Salmon, WA
    July 28, 2013 7:06 p.m.

    The funny thing about the schedule rankings is that having BYU on their schedule strengthens Utah's SOS and having Utah on their's weakens BYU's. Who actually has a more difficult schedule won't really be known until the season is done.

  • clehman Sandy, UT
    July 28, 2013 7:07 p.m.

    And before Chris B says it,

    I wasn't aware that Chris B. was a member of the BCS

    :D

  • Nuschler SAN MARCOS, CA
    July 28, 2013 7:18 p.m.

    I nice article to soften this year's blow. I can hear it already. "We only won 4 games, but the Utes had the toughest schedule EVER in the state."

  • Coug in China China, 00
    July 28, 2013 7:21 p.m.

    Could it be that Utah's schedule is tougher than BYU's because Utah has BYU as an opponent and BYU has Utah as an opponent? If BYU is a better, tougher, stronger team than Utah (which yes, I am implying this by virtue of my statement) and all other opponents of each team are deemed as "equally" tough, then logic stands that Utah has a tougher schedule... it doesn't make them the better team though. I also ask the question, how would Utah fare if it were to try and schedule as an independent? My thoughts are that it wouldn't have nearly as impressive a schedule as BYU does three years into their independent adventure!

  • Clue Bay AMERICAN FORK, UT
    July 28, 2013 7:28 p.m.

    If you can not go to a bowl game - at least you can have a tough schedule. Wait does that even matter?

  • Atrix Vancouver, WA
    July 28, 2013 7:30 p.m.

    In my opinion the PAC-10/12 is overrated every year. Just look at last years bowl results:
    Baylor 49- UCLA 26
    Texas 31- Oregon St 27
    Georgia Tech 21- USC 7
    Wisconsin 14- Stanford 20
    Boise St 28- Washington 26
    Nevada 48- Arizona 49
    If the PAC was as good as it was they would win their bowl games every. Remember that Georgia Tech was at the bottom of the ACC last year and USC was a favorite to win it all. Strength of schedule in the PAC is inflated like the Zimbabwe dollar. There is a reason every game is a toss up in the PAC and it's not because they are all 'that' good. Just look at last years results against the other conferences. This year will prove it overrated again as the media continues to inflate the strength of the PAC.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    July 28, 2013 7:37 p.m.

    Hey Baby---season over, for Utah that is. Bowling at Orchard Lanes yet again.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    July 28, 2013 7:40 p.m.

    BYU's toughest schedule ever was 2004 when they played and lost to Boise State, USC and Utah who all went undefeated that year, as well as a strong TCU. As I recall that year the Cougars ended the year listed as having played the toughest schedule in the country.

    This year's schedule is great, but none of the teams BYU will play should finish undefeated.

    Utah has a great schedule simply by having Oregon and Stanford replace teams that Utah can beat. They also have USU and BYU on the slate. There will be no shame in Utah going 4-8 this year since they are rebuilding and the teams they play are all improved.

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    July 28, 2013 7:51 p.m.

    Utah's schedule is tougher because they play so many BCS teams from the mightiest conference ever known to man. I can buy that. Go Alma-mater Utes!

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    July 28, 2013 7:54 p.m.

    Re: Coug in China

    Utah's schedule is tougher, because as Robinson mentions they play really good teams every week (excl 3 weeks (Weber, Wash State, and Colorado)), they also have 2 great teams they are playing (Stanford and Oregon).

    Since when is BYU better? BYU goes bowling (because of an easier schedule), but they lose to Utah.

    BYUs independence schedule is mostly 2 for 1's. Utah got Michigan on a home and home. Utah would do fine if they wanted to be independent, but they don't want to be independent.
    Who would want to be independent? Idaho, Old Dominion, and New Mexico State are all independent because they can't get into a conference. BYU is independent because they can't get into a BCS conference.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    July 28, 2013 7:59 p.m.

    @nw coug - if you really look at the schedules, your comment is totally incorrect. BYU is in the lower part of Utah's schedule for most difficult games. While BYU has 4 very good opponents, Utah fits in the next group for strength of schedule above Idaho St, MTSU, Virginia, and Houston.

  • Dnquixote Las Vegas, NV
    July 28, 2013 8:10 p.m.

    I am always surprised at how BYU fans can take ANY piece of information and spin it to show how they are better than Utah. Having BYU on their schedule doesn't bump Utah from 42 to 5th. It certainly doesn't hurt, but suggesting its the only difference in SOS is another example of willful ignorance.

  • Cougar_Independence OMAHA, NE
    July 28, 2013 8:14 p.m.

    Utah plays 1 team that played in a BCS bowl last year. BYU plays 2: Notre Dame & Wisconsin.

    I will take BYU's 2013 home schedule over Utah's home schedule any day.

    Really, you can only compare 9 games, because BYU and Utah play each other, and they both play Utah State and an FCS team. If you compare the other 9 games, the schedules are very similar, but BYU's is more national, where as Utah's is all west coast Pac12 teams. BYU will be on national TV more than Utah and will get more exposure for the big national games they are playing.

    BYU > Utah.

    Little brother on the hill can still keep trying. When Utah goes 4-8, all we will hear about in the off season from Utah fans will be how hard their schedule was, and BYU fans will ask if they have put another Pac12 sticker on the back window of their car this year?

    Keep storming that field Utah fans.

  • TOO Sanpete, UT
    July 28, 2013 8:14 p.m.

    This is all pre season talk. Who knows, maybe many of the teams may actually have horrible years that Utah plays, thus at the end of the season giving them a weaker SOS. Could play out vice versa for both sides. SOS is pointless before games are even played. Nobody knows how good anybody will be until the cleats hit the grass.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    July 28, 2013 8:23 p.m.

    "Ute schedule surpasses BYU's toughest ever slate"

    It's amazing how much stronger our SOS has increased just by adding Stanford and Oregon to our schedule. Too bad we have our little brother down south on our schedule that is slightly weakening our already tough SOS. Oh well, we'll take another easy win over the Cougies!

  • Montykristo Lehi, UT
    July 28, 2013 8:34 p.m.

    BYU is overrated. They will finish the season barely above .500 if they are lucky.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 28, 2013 8:41 p.m.

    Coug in China
    "My thoughts are that it wouldn't have nearly as impressive a schedule as BYU does three years into their independent adventure!"

    Good grief. You are really impressed with byu's schedule, aren't you. Two points to ponder:

    1- According to Holmoe and Mendenhall, ESPN is the key factor in building byu's schedule
    2- Look ahead to 2014 and come back and tell this board how great it is being independent

    As for the rankings...go back an re-read the article. Phil Steele has it right...I'm sorry you are disappointed but reality can be harsh sometimes.

  • oldtimeftballer Salt Lake City, UT
    July 28, 2013 8:54 p.m.

    3 straight BCS Bowls; 35-5 (.870) last 3 years; 30-3 at home; ranked Top25 47 straight weeks; 13-4 against teams ranked top 15 last 3 years; only team in last 12 years to beat #1 and #2 ranked team in same year; led nation in sacks last year; stingiest defense in America 2012; 3 Heisman Trophy Finalists since 2009; 10 ALL AMERICAN FIRST TEAM since 2009; and I could go on and on...

    BYU fans and Utah fans keep beating your chests as to who is the irrelevant best. No question Utahs schedule is tougher. Better lace em up boys.

    GO Stanford!

  • Andy Tomasso Layton, UT
    July 28, 2013 9:28 p.m.

    this will just be the excuse for all the Ute fans of why their team didn't go to a bowl game again.

  • Rockarolla West Jordan, UT
    July 28, 2013 9:30 p.m.

    Both are good schedules. I think The Utes schedule looks allot tougher because they have been losing in the pac 12. BYU is trying to upgrade their schedule and have been doing a pretty good job. No matter how tough the schedule is, winning will cure all ills. I expect the Cougars to win 8-10 games his year(with a little luck) and I see the Utes to finish with about 6-8 wins ( with allot of luck)

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    July 28, 2013 9:35 p.m.

    RE:Cougar_Independence

    Get your facts straight. Oregon and Stanford were both in BCS games last year, and both won. (Stanford beat Wisconsin, Oregon beat Kansas State).

    Stanford is a better home game than any BYU will have this year.

    Keep losing to Utah.

  • Alterego Harrisville, UT
    July 28, 2013 9:35 p.m.

    every year's schedule will be the toughest for the utes from now on....that's why the utes don't go to bowl games anymore. mark it down.

  • SMS Salt Lake City, UT
    July 28, 2013 9:38 p.m.

    @Cougar Independence

    "Utah plays 1 team that played in a BCS bowl last year. BYU plays 2: Notre Dame & Wisconsin."

    Really?

    Not only is your statement completely false, it was a terrible juxtaposition to make. Utah will not only play two BCS bowl teams from last year, it will play two victorious BCS Bowl teams from last year in Oregon and Stanford, not two overrated BCS teams like Notre Dame and a 5-loss Wisconsin team.

    Keep coming up with justifications BYU fans.

  • Where is your NC? Denver, CO
    July 28, 2013 9:47 p.m.

    If I recall correctly the SOS means nothing at the end of the year. Congrats Utah on having a tough schedule! RC Willey should stock up on couches for you come December!

    Seriously though, it's only a tough schedule because they have no chance at playing wellin 3/4's of their games. They're going to get slaughtered and every Ute fan knows that.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    July 28, 2013 9:56 p.m.

    For months we've been hearing BYU fans gloat over their challenging schedule. It's nice to have an article that shows the truth: Utah's schedule will be much harder, highlighted by playing two teams who won BCS games last year. (I, too, take the BYU fan to task for claiming erroneously that Utah only plays one school who played in a BCS game. Note: One of the teams, Stanford, DEFEATED Wisconsin, one of the two teams that BYU will play who played last year in a BCS game.)

    Something that has not been mentioned is that while BYU plays several big-name schools, most of them are coming off mediocre seasons. Texas only finished 5-4 in conference play in the Big 12, Georgia Tech was a bad 7-7 team, Houston finished 5-7, and Virginia was a poor 4-8 in the below-average ACC.

    The bottom line is that every expert football publication has the Utes' schedule as being much tougher than BYU's.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    July 28, 2013 10:02 p.m.

    College A plays a tough schedule, and finished 8-5
    College B plays an easy schedule, and finished 10-3

    College A wins at College B by 44 points.
    Yet somehow college B fans think they are better.

    College A goes bowling for 8 straight years (wins 7 of them). One year they miss a bowl game (because they didn't play Idaho, Hawaii, and NMSU). College B claims that College A never goes to bowl games (even though College B lost to College A that season, but did beat Idaho, Hawaii, NMSU).

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    July 28, 2013 10:04 p.m.

    It's interesting how many BYU fans are coming onto all Ute articles in this newspaper and predicting (actually, they're hoping for) a disastrous season. However, BYU will have their own hands full, even if their schedule isn't quite as hard. As far as bragging rights are concerned, it's all about head-to-head competition. And Utah still owns an impressive 3 in a row, 4 of 5, 8 of 11, and overall 56-34-4 over BYU.

    I'm always amazed to read BYU fans' continued trash talk when they have nothing to back it up.

  • YGuy Lehi, UT
    July 28, 2013 10:28 p.m.

    Who freaking cares? We knew Utah would have a tough schedule this year and they will again next year, and the next year, and the next year. They don't have to do anything to "earn" that schedule - they already earned it when they earned their invite (as hard as it is for a Cougar to admit it) to the PAC12 with so many great years and really great wins. There is no story there, DNews. Why aren't you reporting on all of the other crap teams in "power conferences" whose scheduled are tougher than BYU's? Here's why: because it's not news either. This article is comment bait to sell ads on this website - that's it.

    BYU on the other hand has to work and scrap not to end up with a complete patsy schedule. Give 'em credit - they are playing some good brands. Maybe also good teams this year, maybe not, but they'll still sell tickets and TV ads.

    It's a pointless comparison - it's just this writer's way of stirring up contention.

  • Atrix Vancouver, WA
    July 28, 2013 10:42 p.m.

    For all those thinking that Stanford is a big power house, look at their W/L record by year:
    2002(2-9)
    2003(4-7)
    2004(4-7)
    2005(5-6)
    2006(1-10)
    2007(4-8)
    2008(5-7)
    2009(8-5 Lost Bowl)
    2010(12-1)
    2011(11-2 Lost Bowl)
    2012(12-2).
    Four winning seasons in the last 10 years is not Power House by any means. The PAC has 1 or 2 good teams every year and the rest are mediocre at best. Even the good teams struggle to win their bowl games at the end of the year. The BCS buster Cinderella teams have a better BCS record than the the whole PAC and that's without and automatic bid. Is the PAC overrated? Yes.

    Bowl records from 1998-2010:
    1. MOUNTAIN WEST (29-17, .630)
    2. BIG EAST (40-25, .615)
    3. SEC (61-44, .581)
    4. PAC-10/PAC-12 (35-36, .493)

  • Zona Zone Mesa, AZ
    July 28, 2013 10:48 p.m.

    Funny how Utah's schedule seemed to get so much tougher when it joined the Pac-12 but ASU's schedule seemed to get so much easier. Anyhow, I look forward to December's debate as to who is better: 6-6 BYU or 3-9 Utah?

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    July 28, 2013 10:52 p.m.

    Too bad for Utah. Looks like another losing season. I wouldn't be surprised to see Utah and Colorado get axed when the "playoff BCS" system starts. They got in and have laid a huge egg. PAC 12 officials may be thinking PAC 10 again to keep more of the playoff money.

  • theDailyObserver Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 28, 2013 10:57 p.m.

    @Cougar_Independence:

    "Utah plays 1 team that played in a BCS bowl last year. BYU plays 2: Notre Dame & Wisconsin."

    So which team are you claiming didn't play in a BCS bowl last year that is on Utah's schedule this year: Stanford or Oregon? Why don't you utilize Google before you come to troll?

    Oh and when you said, "BYU will be on national TV more than Utah and will get more exposure for the big national games they are playing." Change 'exposure' to 'exposed', and you have it about right.

  • BlueNtheFace Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    July 28, 2013 11:05 p.m.

    The Utes have an opportunity to make big noise this season with that monster schedule. It looks like they will have to overachieve, though, since they lost a lot of offensive production and return an avg defense from 2012.

    BYU faces a great schedule and will need to win a few more or the close games than they did last year in order to catch the eye of the BIG-12 (our chance at getting into the party thru conference affiliation).

    Either way, bragging about SOS means squat unless you get some tough wins.

    Good luck Utes and Cougars!

  • Mark321 Las Vegas, NV
    July 28, 2013 11:12 p.m.

    Both teams have tough schedules. I'll be the first to admit that Utah has a tougher schedule, but BYU has a good balanced manageable tough schedule while Utah has an almost impossible schedule to go undefeated. No worries as a Cougar fan, if BYU goes undefeated they'll be BCS bowlin no question. Utah will have a tougher time getting there.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    July 29, 2013 1:00 a.m.

    @Uncle Rico, you make me smile...

    Utah would be fine going independent??? Pulleeze... Even as part of the PAC12 we Utah Taxpayers have to flip a large portion of their tab and you think that they would be fine as independents? Ummm, I don't think so... I don't think that the people of Utah would allow it based on the tax hikes that would have to occur... The State Legislature would mandate that they belong to a conference.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    July 29, 2013 1:14 a.m.

    Another interesting point of observation that comes up when reviewing the various lists that the author references on SOS is where other members of Utah's Conference are listed.

    I've looked at 4 of them now and in every list a minimum of 6 PAC12 teams are rated as having SOS in the lower half of all FBS Team Schedules... BYU is in the upper half on every list... The majority of those PAC12 teams with weak SOS rankings are scheduled to play Utah this year and none of them are scheduled to play BYU...

    Furthermore, at least half of BYU's scheduled opponents this year are in the upper half of these lists... I found that very interesting... It clearly points out which of the two teams that the experts believe to be stronger and which of the two teams that they expect to win in the match-up...

    I personally am rooting for Utah this year when they play that tough PAC12 schedule... I am hoping that in this 3rd year of membership they are able to beat a conference team with a winning record for the first time since joining the league.

    go utes...

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    July 29, 2013 1:15 a.m.

    If Utah were truly "big brother", there wouldn't be so many articles and posts trying to compare them with BYU. I'm the oldest of several brothers and could care less what my siblings do - I certainly don't contemplate whether I have a tougher job or challenges than they do.

    Utes just can't get over the inferiority complex...

  • Brother Benjamin Franklin Orem, UT
    July 29, 2013 3:09 a.m.

    I do not see how any of this really contributes to anything except pitting fans of schools against each other divisively. I am all for pride and cheering for one's team, but let's actually talk about things that are relevant to the season. There is very little in this article that is relevant to that.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    July 29, 2013 6:39 a.m.

    B-b-b-but we had a tough schedule and better SOS.

    Yeah? So what? I thought your superior recruiting meant something more like winning a lot of games.

    Going 3-9 with a tough schedule and this SOS will prove but one thing... the Utes are outclassed again and their fans whine a lot.

    I can't wait.

    Better get a different line of excuses going because this one is wearing out before it happens.

  • thebigsamoan Richmond, VA
    July 29, 2013 7:16 a.m.

    Ok, here's a clue people...strength of schedule means absolutely nothing if you don't win. Until then, all this boasting and chest pounding is meaningless.

    Congrats to Utah's Big 3 for having tough and exciting schedules this year. Here's hoping they will all do well and make Utah proud. Now if only the hate and ugly name calling will end!

    Go Cougs! Go Utes! Go Aggies! oh and Weber State too!

  • Top5Alive salt lake city, UT
    July 29, 2013 7:32 a.m.

    I have been saying this ever since the schedules came out. All media has been talking about the SOS for BYU....so its nice to know some of you aren't BYU biased and looked at how hard UTAHs schedule is. Y fans will create facts etc. to pub their team which is cool, but both teams need to improve from last year also BYU needs to atleast get a victory over Utah...its been 3 straight years....haha!

  • Top5Alive salt lake city, UT
    July 29, 2013 7:36 a.m.

    go utes

  • Top5Alive salt lake city, UT
    July 29, 2013 7:40 a.m.

    The headline is fact, both schools need to step up this year. go utes

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    July 29, 2013 8:00 a.m.

    The point of the article is that Utah's 2013 schedule is PREDICTED to be their toughest ever, and is PREDICTED to be tougher than any schedule BYU has ever played.

    Sorenson says this year's schedule "may be BYU’s toughest ever and is something to be proud of, particularly with the difficulties of producing an independent schedule. However, it’s not the toughest in the history of the state. That would be the University of Utah’s schedule — this year."

    If that offends many Cougar fans, just remember that it isn't just Utah fans, and Utah beat writers who believe that. Are any of you aware of a national media outlet, or an unbiased talking head, who believes BYU' schedule will be tougher than Utah's?

    Sorenson doesn't predict which team will be better this season.

    He doesn't predict who will win at LES in September.

    I look forward to seeing how the two teams do. And I will try - again - to cheer for the Cougars when they aren't playing my Utes.

    But I've got to tell you, many of you make that harder than it should be!

  • redfeather Palo Alto, CA
    July 29, 2013 8:03 a.m.

    Uncle Rico

    "Utah would do fine if they wanted to be independent, but they don't want to be independent."

    Utah trying to make a go of Independence would be a disaster for the Utes. Home games would be televised on KJZZ because the Utes wouldn't stand a chance of signing a national television contract with ESPN or any other national broadcast or cable network. It's doubtful the Utes could even schedule 2-for-1's with any of the big boys like Notre Dame, Penn St, Miami, Florida St, Texas, or even Michigan or USC.

  • redfeather Palo Alto, CA
    July 29, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    Uncle Rico

    Unlike College U, College Y didn't lose, AT HOME, to a 10-loss team that hadn't won a road game in four years. Not only did College Y finish with a better record, College Y also beat a higher ranked team in their bowl - #34 BYU(10-3) beat #35 Tulsa, both teams ranked higher than #39 Utah(8-5) beating #56 Ga Tech.

    Seasons are judged in their entirety.

    Utah's big 2011 win over BYU was negated by Utah's ugly loss to Colorado.

    btw, the computer rankings (such as Sagarin) that included in the sacrosanct BCS formula that Utah fans used talk about ad nauseum as being so "superior" to the polls, don't even consider margin of victory - as far as the computer rankings are concerned, Utah beating BYU 54-10 was identical to Utah beating BYU 24-21.

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    July 29, 2013 8:33 a.m.

    Adding another SOS trophy to their trophy closet seems to be the only "accomplishment" Utah fans are really concerned about this season; that, and pulling off an upset at LES.

  • RedBlood Bountiful, UT
    July 29, 2013 8:33 a.m.

    Having a difficult schedule is what Ute fans expected when joining the PAC-12. We asked for it, and from what I hear from most Ute fans including myself, it has been a blast. Watching the Trojans run onto the field last year was just the coolest thing. There is no doubt losing games is a bummer and not as fun as winning. Know this however - we knew there would be an adjustment period. Say what you want, that was absolutely true. Expecting the Utes to go undefeated or to a nice bowl wasn't too realistic early on. We're not fully vested in PAC-12 revenue sharing until NEXT YEAR when we'll receive close to $30M! The trajectory is headed in the right direction, the recruiting is vastly improved, and it is a blast having such a fantastic schedule.

    No matter how you slice it, any BYU fan who says they prefer independence over conference affiliation are just full of it and not being honest with themselves. Our team will reflect all the excellent recruiting starting about next year. The Utes will continue to improve.

    It is a great time to be a Ute!

  • Sandyclaws Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 8:46 a.m.

    I would have to disagree with the article when it says, "the Mountain West Conference.... is much better than the leagues USU has competed in for the past 50 years." Last year the WAC was the best of the five non-BcS conferences. The evidence is in the WAC's overall Out-of-Conference record, which, though below 50%, was higher than any other non-BcS conference. However, alot of that had to do with USU itself, and they will no longer be in that conference.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    July 29, 2013 8:53 a.m.

    RedBlood

    "Know this however - we knew there would be an adjustment period."

    It's nice to see Utah fans finally starting to accept reality, but it's laughable that you're trying to rewrite history.

    Go back three years to the blogs before and just after Utah was invited to join the PAC and you'll find that, almost without exception, Utah fans were claiming that the Utes were already good enough to play with the big boys. There was hardly a peep from our redfeather-tailed friends about the Utes needing a "period of adjustment" before the Utes would be competitive.

    Your period of adjustment narrative implies that Utah is on the cusp of becoming a serious conference competitor. In reality, this is nothing indicate that this is anything more than wishful thinking. It's just as likely that this could be a repeat of what happened to the Utes when they moved from the less competitive Rocky Mountain Conference, to the more competitive WAC.

    After enjoying one brief flash of fleeting success in 1964, the Utes fell into complete mediocrity for the next 30 years.

    Don't be too surprised if that's where the PAC 12 Utes are headed.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 29, 2013 8:53 a.m.

    Crying about a team hurting your SOS that has OWNED you 8 of the last 11 years is as priceless as dancing in the streets of Provo for a 1-0 "Quest".

    Go UTES!!

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    Uteology

    Not as priceless as a team rushing the field THREE times for barely beating a team they've supposedly "owned" for 8 of 11 years or a team throwing themselves a parade for finishing 2nd, in one poll.

    Unfortunately, the facts don't support the hackneyed Ute hyperbole - 13 of the last 16 have been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing minutes or in overtime, proof, that neither team has any claim to owning the other.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    July 29, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    I've never seen so many fans get hot about a preseason comparison of schedules. Very very funny though how Fans of one school change their tune when reality hits and they realize tat they don't have the toughest schedule in the country (or even the state for that matter.) and difficulty in scheduling? You have ESPN backing you up and the most wonderful TV studio in the world in BYU TV.

    The hypocrisy is very funny and amusing.

    Utah expects to be in a bowl game at the end of the season. No excuses (except from cougar fans who have that mindset)

    Comparisons come from playing the game. Utah owns BYU historically and currently.

  • Love skiing Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 9:35 a.m.

    B b but we can't beat Utah.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    July 29, 2013 9:40 a.m.

    "Mike Sorensen: Ute schedule surpasses BYU's toughest ever slate"

    Maybe!

    According to Sagarin, BYU's 2003 SOS was ranked 14th and BYU's 2004 SOS was ranked 11th.

    It remains to be seen whether Utah's 2013 SOS is ultimately ranked tougher than either of BYU's two toughest schedules or whether Utah end's up with a better record than either of those two supposedly "awful" BYU teams of the Crowton era.

    Pre-season SOS rankings are no more accurate than pre-season rankings.

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    July 29, 2013 9:49 a.m.

    When you brag about the strength of schedule, it means your team is bad. 4-8, lots of down time in Decemeber and a new coach in January - that's the future of the bottom feeders of the Pac-12.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    July 29, 2013 9:49 a.m.

    Look at are history with good teams. We win all the good teams. Utah never wins the good teams.

  • Joe Schmoe Orem, UT
    July 29, 2013 9:52 a.m.

    I'm worried about Chris B. Not a single comment. He is usually the first, second, third and fourth to comment on an article like this. Does anybody know if he is o.k.?

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    July 29, 2013 9:53 a.m.

    wwookie

    "Utah owns BYU historically and currently."

    Only in your crimson-colored dreams.

    BYU owns Utah 29-21 during the last half century, and more importantly, all-time where it really counts, 17-5 in the AP final poll.

    As far as schedule rankings go, pre-season SOS rankings are no more accurate than the pre-season polls. A year ago, USC was considered a national championship contender and was ranked #1 in some polls. USU and San Jose St were both unranked and not even mentioned in the national dialogue. Some teams far exceed expectations; some teams are bitter disappointments. It's impossible to predict with complete certainty which teams will be contenders and which teams will be pretenders.

  • JCC75 SEATTLE, WA
    July 29, 2013 10:13 a.m.

    I love the pre-season hype. Who cares who's schedule is tougher. I am looking forward to experiencing it all one week at a time.....and my alma maters, BYU & hopefully CU, beating Utah:) Is it September yet?

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 10:39 a.m.

    Not sure why one would try to compare schedules. As noted in the article, Utah's tough schedule is a "gift" from joining the PAC12. Their schedule should be toughest in the state year after year.

    BYU's schedule could be tougher, but as Coach Mendenhall indicated they need an easier mix. They need "gimme" games to help recover from the bigger games. They won't have the depth to play a slate of 9 or 10 games against teams from the BCS conferences. 5 or 6 of those games is enough.

  • nairbnosral American Fork, UT
    July 29, 2013 10:51 a.m.

    wwookie:

    "The hypocrisy is very funny and amusing."

    Funny - "comical: causing amusement, especially enough to provoke laughter"

    Amusing - "somewhat funny: causing somebody to smile or laugh"

    Redundant - "repeating meaning: with the same meaning as a word used elsewhere in a passage"

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    July 29, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    Sweet! We even have some Stanford smack! I love it.

    Can't wait for the season to start!

    Go Utes!! Onward and Upward!

  • Turtle Owasso, OK
    July 29, 2013 10:56 a.m.

    This article is mostly nonsense

    1. The Pac-12 is nothing to brag about in football
    2. What is the big deal about SOS anyway? It makes no difference in the final analysis, as winning your games makes a lot more sense.

    I believe this article was written solely to stir up the pot, which it did...

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    July 29, 2013 11:00 a.m.

    YGuy:

    "It's a pointless comparison - it's just this writer's way of stirring up contention."

    A very precise and accurate post! Kudos to you, my friend.

  • bradleyc Layton, UT
    July 29, 2013 11:03 a.m.

    So... I think BYU is playing a schedule that they want to play whereas Utah is playing a schedule that they would rather not have.

    Dnquixote... No spin here. I wouldn't matter who we played, who we beat, or who beat us. We would still be better that U.

  • UU32 Bountiful, UT
    July 29, 2013 11:03 a.m.

    Sounds to me like BYU has claimed its annual prize of pre-season national champs. Congrats to the Cougs.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 29, 2013 11:12 a.m.

    "all-time where it really counts, 17-5 in the AP final poll."

    I love how 2-Star byu fan arbitrarily decides what "really counts" and what doesn't. 3 straight, 4 of 5, 8 of 11, 13 of 20 and the insurmountable overall record, 56-34-4.

    Regarding this article, the reality for 2-Star byu is that they're too afraid to schedule anything even remotely resembling a legitimate back-to-back, week-in, week-out grind of a schedule. Instead, they schedule 2 bye-weeks preceding The U/Wisconsin, MTSU before usu, UH [minus Sims] before bsu and Idaho State before ND. Cowardice at its finest.

    Personally, I wouldn't trade our schedule for anything. The excitement/possibility for reward factors are second-to-none.

    Go Utes!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    July 29, 2013 11:12 a.m.

    Mark321
    Las Vegas, NV

    "if BYU goes undefeated they'll be BCS bowlin no question. Utah will have a tougher time getting there."

    byU and Utah have exactly the same chance of getting into a BCS game this year - ZERO!

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    July 29, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    "They need "gimme" games to help recover from the bigger games."

    Like Weber State, Washington State, and Colorado.

    Once again, the "bcs" hypocrisy of Utah fans is laughably exposed.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 29, 2013 11:29 a.m.

    "Like Weber State, Washington State, and Colorado."

    Nice try. Look at our 8 game stretch in between Weber State and Washington State. Shoot, I'd even include playing in Pullman at the tail-end of it all, making it a 9 game stretch. Ask UCLA and UW how easy it was to play in Pullman late in the season last year, when UCLA barely escaped w/a win and UW lost in OT.

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    July 29, 2013 11:42 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    I love how the kids on the hill pretend that Utah's record versus BYU is more important than lifetime national rankings and achievements. Having to resort to head-to-head comparisons instead comparing national achievements is simply further prove of how dominant BYU has been where it really counts, in national achievemtns.

    BYU's Hall of Fame is filled with National Championship trophies, a Heisman Trophy, over a dozen national individual awards, and a half dozen national college football hall of fame player citations, and BYU has been a perennial Top 25 team for over a third of a century.

    Utah's hall of fame closet is completely devoid of any national team or player awards, and U can still count on one hand Utah's lifetime AP Top 25 finishes.

    --------

    As far as 2013 schedules:

    BYU has 12 regular season games in 2013; Utah has 12 regular season games in 2013.

    Only a jealous Utah homer would try to make something out of where the byes occur for each team.

    Interestingly, only 3 of BYU's 2013 D-1A opponents finished with losing records in 2012; ironically, Utah was one of them.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    @Coug in China
    "Could it be that Utah's schedule is tougher than BYU's because Utah has BYU as an opponent and BYU has Utah as an opponent?"

    Let's use the Sagarin ranking approach and ignore the BYU-Utah game.
    Utah BYU
    2. Oregon 5. Notre Dame
    9. Stanford 16. Texas
    15. Oregon State 19. Utah State
    19. Utah State 23. Wisconsin
    28. Arizona State 41. Boise State
    31. UCLA 46. Georgia Tech
    33. USC 80. Nevada
    44. Arizona 85. Middle Tennessee State
    104. Washington State 87. Virginia
    156. Colorado 108. Houston
    179. Weber State 225. Idaho State

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    July 29, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    Call me old fashioned, but I believe bragging rights belong to the team who wins the game.

    Remind me, what was the outcome of the Utah-BYU game last year?

    And how did the game in Provo end up in 2011 - I went to bed when Utah was up by 30-something.

    Who won in 2010?

    :)

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    July 29, 2013 11:52 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    Who cares what your 8-game stretch is, you start and end the stretch with a couple of patsies.

    Stop whining about your "big boy" schedule. Utah fans are the ones who claimed that the Utes could compete with anybody. Now's your chance to prove it.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 11:54 a.m.

    @eastcoastcoug
    "If Utah were truly "big brother""

    University of Deseret/University of Utah: Established 1850
    Brigham Young Academy/University: Established 1875

    @sammyg
    "Going 3-9 with a tough schedule and this SOS will prove but one thing... the Utes are outclassed again and their fans whine a lot."

    Either you're just making up results or you're from the future, in which case I would recommend going to Vegas.

    @phoenix
    "Go back three years to the blogs before and just after Utah was invited to join the PAC and you'll find that, almost without exception, Utah fans were claiming that the Utes were already good enough to play with the big boys. "

    Our starting QB got injured two years in a row... generally teams tend to struggle when that happens. Though, in fairness, not having our QB or RB didn't stop Utah from beating BYU last year...

  • Green Acres Eagle Mountain, UT
    July 29, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    Both teams have tough schedules. It's just curious that in an article about Univ of Utah's toughest schedule, the name "BYU" and names associated with BYU (Bronco Mendenhall and Tom Holmoe) are mentioned five times before the article even starts talking about "University of Utah". So who is the being used as the standard? Help me, I'm confused.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    July 29, 2013 12:01 p.m.

    atl134

    Let's use the pre-season rankings approach and ignore the whole season - BYU has been ranked ahead of Utah in every pre-season ranking/power poll announced so far.

    So, unless the Utes are planning to add a SOS shelf to their hall of fame closet, this whole discussion is meaningless.

    As proof, which team finished with the #1-ranked SOS in 2012? Do you even care?

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    July 29, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    This article seems like posturing to justify another season in the PAC cellar.......

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    July 29, 2013 12:08 p.m.

    Utah'95

    "Call me old fashioned, but I believe bragging rights belong to the team who wins the game."

    So which would you say has more bragging rights, Alabama or Texas A&M? Oregon or Stanford?

    Be honest and no hiding behind qualifiers.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 29, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    backpacn--

    "Stop whining about your 'big boy' schedule."

    Here's what I posted, prior to you posting the above--

    "Personally, I wouldn't trade our schedule for anything. The excitement/possibility for reward factors are second-to-none."

    My sentiment hardly qualifies as whining, but rather on the contrary!

    Go Utes!

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    July 29, 2013 12:25 p.m.

    atl134

    "Our starting QB got injured two years in a row... generally teams tend to struggle when that happens."

    Wynn came into fall camp both seasons still recovering from injuries; whose fault was it that Whittingham hadn't bothered to prepare a quality backup to replace him?

    It's laughable that you use whiny "injured QB" excuses, while completely ignoring the fact that BYU played an injured starting QB for most of the season. Riley Nelson suffered two cracked vertebrae against Weber State, which just might have had something to do with his lack of effectiveness for most of the season, yet he still engineered a 4th Q comeback against the Utes that came within a couple of inches of sending the game into OT.

  • Don't Feed the Trolls Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 12:33 p.m.

    AZUTE1
    the insurmountable overall record, 56-34-4.

    Bragging on wins from the 1920's is as pathetic as bragging about how tough the guys who beat you up are. Their sisters could beat U up, too.

  • Utes-Best Lil Brothers Anaheim, CA
    July 29, 2013 12:35 p.m.

    atl134

    "If Utah were truly "big brother""

    The Utes wouldn't still be playing catchup in national accomplishments to their big brothers:

    University of Deseret/University of Utah:
    Established 1850; first football season 1892; first AP Top 25 finish 1994; first national championship - still waiting.

    Brigham Young Academy/University:
    Established 1875; first football season 1922; first AP Top 25 finishes 1979; first national championship 1984.

  • Don't Feed the Trolls Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 12:55 p.m.

    atl134

    Our starting QB got injured two years in a row... generally teams tend to struggle when that happens.
    ---
    Really?

    1977 - BYU All-American Gifford Nielsen season-ending injury. Marc Wilson threw 7 TD passes his first game and was all WAC that year, All-American 2 years later, led BYU to WAC championships 3 years.

    1978 - Marc Wilson season-ending injury, Jim McMahon was All-WAC, All-American 2 years later, led BYU to 3 WAC championships.

    3rd string Joe Montana came off the bench at Notre Dame.

    Whittingham is responsible for the QB cupboard being bare. Ute fans shouldn't accept the excuses. It is QUARTERBACK. You can't afford to be 1 deep there. For that matter, the Utes got extremely lucky with John White. They had NO FBS experience at RB going into that year.

    Personally, I assumed that the Utes would immediately be PAC competitive BECAUSE of Whittingham. I've been wrong so far. It isn't the league that has outclassed the Utes, it is the coaching. Key holes in the depth chart, musical chairs at OC. Who knows, maybe the Utes miss Gary Anderson more than anyone knew...

  • JimE Kaysville, UT
    July 29, 2013 1:15 p.m.

    This will explain why they have a losing record for the 2nd year in a row.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 29, 2013 1:31 p.m.

    Utes-Best Lil Brothers

    BYU's first AP Top 25 finish was actually 1977, SEVENTEEN years before the Utes cracked the AP Top 25 for the first time.

    For some strange reason, the AP poll voters completely ignored all of Utah's leather helmet era head-to-head wins and conference championships.

    Inconceivable, considering all of the chest beating we see from the kids on the hill about those unbelievably outstanding achievements.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    July 29, 2013 1:46 p.m.

    skywalker,

    Texas A&M beat Alabama. The Aggies get to brag about winning that game.

    Stanford beat Oregon. The Cardinal gets to brag about beating the Ducks.

    BYU hasn't beaten Utah since 2009, and lost one of those games by 44 points - at home. Until the Cougars win against the Utes, Utah fans have bragging rights on BYU.

    That may change this fall - we'll have to wait and see.

  • Barnbug1 SPANISH FORK, UT
    July 29, 2013 1:50 p.m.

    I imagine Washington St has had some killer schedules over the years...So what.

  • jeru0455 SALEM, OR
    July 29, 2013 1:57 p.m.

    Utah's schedule is better, but that doesn't really matter. The Utes will probably go 8-4 this year as I see it, with wins over USU, WSU, OSU, BYU, UCLA, UA, WSU, and CU. Hopefully we will bring it right down to the line like we did in 2011 for the south. BYU will win between 6 and 9 games. It doesn't really matter, because they'll go to the Fight Hunger Bowl anyway.

  • scott Alpine, UT
    July 29, 2013 2:05 p.m.

    "Mike Sorensen: Ute schedule surpasses BYU's toughest ever slate"

    Gotta love the destorted view of reality constantly emmanating from the hill; like the #1 in Utah, #4 in the West MBA signs suddenly popping up all over town.

    What's with this obsessive need to continually use BYU as Utah's measuring stick?

  • ShortGuy West Jordan, UT
    July 29, 2013 2:22 p.m.

    This article is simply to stir the pot. No one will know who has what until the teams start playing. It seems every year some teams that are supposed to be good are not, and vice versa.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    July 29, 2013 2:23 p.m.

    The whole SOS thing is silly and largely subjective. And using an objective measure often makes SOS even sillier.

    Using the objective NCAA SOS formula (opponents prior year W-L record), three of the favorites to end the year #1 have the following SOS:

    Ohio State 102
    Alabama 104
    Oregon 112

  • SagerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 2:26 p.m.

    "Cougar_Independence
    OMAHA, NE
    Utah plays 1 team that played in a BCS bowl last year. BYU plays 2: Notre Dame & Wisconsin.

    Little brother on the hill can still keep trying. When Utah goes 4-8, all we will hear about in the off season from Utah fans will be how hard their schedule was, and BYU fans will ask if they have put another Pac12 sticker on the back window of their car this year?

    Keep storming that field Utah fans."

    WOW. Maybe you play 2 teams that played in BCS Bowl games earlier this year, but both of those teams lost in those bowl games as well. You refer to Utah as the little brother, and that's fine... Because since I've grown up I can kick my "big" brother's butt year in and year out as well, and we will keep storming the field, because we'll have every reason to do it. It didn't stop us from beating you last year... did it?

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 2:31 p.m.

    Skywalker

    "So which would you say has more bragging rights, Alabama or Texas A&M? Oregon or Stanford?"

    Those are impossible questions for Utah fans to answer.

    Answer them truthfully and logically, and the answers invalidate their head-to-head narrative and their only legitimate argument for superiority.

    Answer them so as not to invalidate their head-to-head narrative, and they look silly.

    NOBODY, not even someone living under that crimson bubble on the hill, could logically argue that winning the head-to-head is more significant, and thus affords more bragging rights, than winning a national championship. NOBODY could logically argue that winning the head-to-head is more significant, and thus affords more bragging rights, than finishing #2 in BOTH polls.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 29, 2013 2:46 p.m.

    Truth Machine
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Uteology

    Not as priceless as a team rushing the field THREE times for barely beating a team they've supposedly "owned" for 8 of 11 years or a team throwing themselves a parade for finishing 2nd, in one poll.

    -----------

    It wasn't a parade for finishing at #2 in the AP poll.

    It was a parade for finishing the season 13-0... no defeats, including the program that has won 3 of the last 4 national titles, and that program down south whose fans claim is heads and shoulders above Utah, yet have lost 3 of the last 4 and 8 of the last 11 against them... including a 54-10 shellacking on their own field.

    Should a team throw a parade if they ran the table, finished 13-0, and remained the ONLY division I school to finish that season without a loss... and in the process ended up at #2?

    Surely I don't need to answer that for you.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 29, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    Whatsnu
    Sandy, UT
    wwookie

    "Utah owns BYU historically and currently."

    Only in your crimson-colored dreams.

    BYU owns Utah 29-21 during the last half century, and more importantly, all-time where it really counts.

    -----------

    Alright, if you insist.

    Utah outright O-W-N-S the Cougies in this series... 56-34 all time.

    Remember, ALL TIME is where it really counts.

    Game, set, match.

    Bye.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    July 29, 2013 2:49 p.m.

    Utah'95

    "Texas A&M beat Alabama. The Aggies get to brag about winning that game.

    Stanford beat Oregon. The Cardinal gets to brag about beating the Ducks."

    Unfortunately for the Aggies, who won "that game," is nothing more than a footnote. The Crimson Tide won the National Championship.

    Unfortunately for the Cardinal, who won "that game," is nothing more than a footnote. The Ducks finished the season ranked #2 in both polls?

    Winning the war is FAR more significant than winning a single battle.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 29, 2013 2:56 p.m.

    LonestarRunner
    Salt Lake City, UT

    NOBODY, not even someone living under that crimson bubble on the hill, could logically argue that winning the head-to-head is more significant, and thus affords more bragging rights, than winning a national championship. NOBODY could logically argue that winning the head-to-head is more significant, and thus affords more bragging rights, than finishing #2 in BOTH polls.

    ---------

    Sorry buddy. Your single national championship (which was universally discredited due to the fact that you beat no one of consequence that year) does not give you superiority over anyone, let alone Utah, for all time.

    What a ridiculous argument you're making. "We have a NC from one fluke season, thus we have always been and will always be superior to Utah because they don't have one."

    Ha ha ha ha. I can't stop laughing from that one.

    That's rich.

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    July 29, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    jeru0455

    "The Utes will probably go 8-4 this year as I see it, with wins over USU, WSU, OSU, BYU, UCLA, UA, WSU, and CU. Hopefully we will bring it right down to the line like we did in 2011 for the south."

    And then I suppose Utah will beat Oregon or Stanford a 2nd time to win the PAC championship, and then you'll beat Ohio State in the Rose Bowl.

    It's fun to dream, but eventually you wake up to smell the coffee and realize that the Utes are battling the Buffs in the annual pillow fight in the rockies to determine who gets to spend the off season in the basement.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    July 29, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    Any comment board involving BYU fans invariably degenerates into their changing the subject and saying how great they were in the early 1980's, including their disputed "national championship". They don't like to go into details, such as, they were the only undefeated team in 1984 and backed their way in by beating a pathetic 6-6 Michigan team in a minor bowl. (The rules then changed, prohibiting Utah to claim an outright championship in 2008, which they earned much more so than BYU did. They actually beat several ranked teams, including former #1 Alabama.)

    Anyway, getting back to the point of the article. There is no argument here. Every reputable national sportsublication has Utah's schedule as being much more challenging. It remains to be seen how both Utah and BYU will do with their schedules. As far as predictions are concerned, BYU fans are quick to give their doomsday predictions concerning the Utes. Utah fans could just as easily predict the same for BYU.

    I have a novel idea: Let's let the season play out, then compare how each team did in December. I have a feeling the BYU fans won't be dishing out so freely in five months.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    July 29, 2013 3:37 p.m.

    Tomahawk Red

    "Utah outright O-W-N-S the Cougies in this series... 56-34 all time."

    Nobody really cares about your leather helmet era "dominance" when BYU had little more than a club team - 30 of the first 40 games in the series were played at Utah because BYU didn't even have a stadium.

    The HUGE difference is, during Utah's period of dominance, 1922 to 1964, Utah was practically invisible on a national scale - only two bowl games, neither of any significance, and no AP Top 25 finishes.

    During BYU's period of dominance, 1972 to 1991, BYU was a perennial Top 25 team, won a national championship, a Heisman Trophy, and had multiple national individual award winners.

    The Utes can still count on one hand, their total number of AP Top 25 finishes.

    BYU has more than three times as many AP Top 25 finishes, including back-to-back Top 7 finishes, something completely unheard of on the hill.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 29, 2013 3:45 p.m.

    GoRed
    WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

    I have a novel idea: Let's let the season play out, then compare how each team did in December. I have a feeling the BYU fans won't be dishing out so freely in five months.

    ---------

    Absolutely agree.

    For the last three years, in the months leading to the season, all I have read from BYU fans is how "we're gonna stomp Utah this year" and "I can't wait until we kill you guys this year" and "come back the day after the game and we'll talk" -- only to disappear entirely after yet another beating at the hands of the Utes.

    It's always "OK, THIS time we're gonna kick your butt"... and then the real Y shows up and promptly loses. It's getting so that those statements, when I hear them now, are all bark and zero bite.

    Go over to any of the lame BYU message boards and watch how they all delude themselves into believing that "BYU lost that game, Utah didn't win it" mentality. Denial, denial, denial.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    July 29, 2013 4:06 p.m.

    @soonerutie

    LOL, you and some of your buddies on here are amazing... We play several AQ teams this year from your big bad BCS conferences Virginia, Texas, ND, GT, Wisconsin and yes we have to take a break once in awhile... That's why we have Utah and idaho State on our schedule this year even though Utah is power ranked between 57th and 68th by FBS experts... We needed a "gimmee" or two... But isn't Utah suppose to be in a BCS conference? I'm guessing that Utah is also a "gimmee break for Oregon, Stanford, Arizona, etc...

    The point is, you can't always pick the gimmee games by Conference affiliation... Our easiest games last year wer with GT and WSU (both BCS teams)... And two of our toughest games were against Boise State and San Jose State (neither one a BCS member)... Kind of blows your theory completely apart doesn't it?

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    July 29, 2013 4:23 p.m.

    @jeru0455

    I have Utah winning 2 games this year Weber College and maybe one of the two between Colorado and WSU... It's quite possible they just win one... Most experts have them winning no more than 3... A prediction of them beating OSU, UCLA, BYU, AZ, or USU borders on being laughable...

    I don't live very far from you... maybe we could wager a 7-up or something... If Utah wins 4 or more games I will buy you and your immediate family complete dinners of your choice at McDonalds... If they don't win 4, you do the same for me... Deal?

  • morganh Orem, Utah
    July 29, 2013 4:41 p.m.

    @ Uncle Rico,

    "Utah would do fine if they wanted to be independent" The truth of the matter is Utah could not survive as an independent because they don't have the brand and marketability that B.Y.U.brings. For example: in Lavell's last game when he beat Utah a few sportscaster from ESPN where eating dinner and saw the score. I don't know which one said it but they all let out a quiet cheer for Lavell. Why? Because they wanted Lavell to win his last game and Lavell Edwards was the image of B.Y.U. football. Utah needs a conference to get recognition so they are in the PAC-12 and get the benefit of being in the PAC-12. B.Y.U. would like to be in a conference, but because of their brand and recognition they can be independent and play quality opponents.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    July 29, 2013 5:15 p.m.

    I have not read the comments nor the second half of the article, but the title is just dumb. If Utah has the toughest schedule ever, why compare everything to BYU?

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    July 29, 2013 5:41 p.m.

    Utah certainly has its toughest schedule to date. BYU's schedule also looks like its toughest. At the end of the day, the issue will be decided, as usual, by the final polls. A conference consisting of USC, Oregon, and Stanford is pretty tough, but traveling to Seattle, Tempe, even Corvallis, is no picnic. My guess is that Utah will do well to be bowl eligible.

    The big question in my mind is how BYU would do against that schedule. Too bad we'll never know. We'll only know how they do against the schedule they have. If they do well, it will be a good season. That's all you can ask of them.

    Meanwhile, I can hope my Dawgs and and Beavers make some noise this year. But I'm a BYU fan first, I guess.

    GO COUGS! (you too, Huskies!) (yes, and even you, Beavs)

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    July 29, 2013 6:06 p.m.

    Tomahawk Red

    "Your single national championship (which was universally discredited due to the fact that you beat no one of consequence that year) does not give you superiority over anyone, let alone Utah, for all time."

    That wasn't the topic of the discussion, but your jealous mischaracterization of BYU's national championship is laughable.

    BYU's championship was recognized by a consensus of all five major national selecting organizations - the exact same organizations that recognized Miami's NC the year before, and Oklahoma's NC the year after.

    1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
    1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
    1983 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI

    In 1984, BYU beat Air Force(8-4) on the road, a team that finished #24 in the final AP poll, unranked only because the 1984 poll only included the Top 20, but higher in the poll than Utah's 2004 Fiesta Bowl opponent, Pittsburgh(8-4), which finished #25 in the final AP poll.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    July 29, 2013 6:17 p.m.

    @Where is your NC? "Seriously though, it's (Utah) only a tough schedule because they have no chance at playing well.."

    Ha. Try reading the article. It's comparing the two teams' schedules. That is to say...if BYU had Utah's schedule it would be a harder season for BYU. Likewise, if Utah had BYU's schedule it would be easier for Utah.

    Perhaps the Des News should include more pictures for some of these fans.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    July 29, 2013 6:23 p.m.

    Utah can't just beat BYU this year. They may not go bowling with this schedule, but it's time for a real signature win. They have several chances.

    Oregon and Stanford won't be it. I'm beating on the USC game.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    July 29, 2013 6:32 p.m.

    3grandslams "Too bad for Utah. Looks like another losing season. I wouldn't be surprised to see Utah and Colorado get axed when the "playoff BCS" system starts. They got in and have laid a huge egg."

    What are you talking about? Colorado has always been in the BCS. Being from Iowa you should know that.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    July 29, 2013 6:46 p.m.

    Tomahawk Red,

    You said: "For the last three years, in the months leading to the season, all I have read from BYU fans is how "we're gonna stomp Utah this year" and "I can't wait until we kill you guys this year" and "come back the day after the game and we'll talk" -- only to disappear entirely after yet another beating at the hands of the Utes."

    Your experience has been quite different than mine. I have found that many BYU fans don't "disappear" after losing to the Utes. Instead, they insist that "the better team didn't win," that "Utah places more emphasis on the game than BYU does," and that "the Utes gets up for the game more than the Cougars do."

    My question is this - how many points do the Cougars have to lose by before these fans will quit talking smack? I mean, 44 points didn't do it!

    I anticipate another great game this year. I just hope my Utes come out on top - again!

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 29, 2013 6:57 p.m.

    gored

    "The rules then changed, prohibiting Utah to claim an outright championship in 2008, which they earned much more so than BYU did. They actually beat several ranked teams, including former #1 Alabama."

    Please cite the rule and the date of the change that made Alabama's 2012 AP National Championship any different than BYU's 1984 AP National Championship.

    The fact is, Utah finished #4 in 2004 and #2 in 2008 under the exact sames rules that EVERY AP national champion has been selected since 1936.

    Quite obviously, BYU earned their championship much more than Utah earned their "championship", since the Utes weren't selected to be champions by anybody of consequence.

    btw, Sagarin only ranked Utah's 2008 SOS 56th, not much better than BYU's 2012 SOS, which was 63rd. Utah's 2004 SOS was ranked even worse, at 67th, not significantly higher than BYU's 1984 SOS which was 85th.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    July 29, 2013 7:07 p.m.

    @poyman - I take factual issue with your comment that 'most experts have Utah winning no more than 3 games this year'. Please cite me any expert with that prediction. Yes, they are not predicted to win more than 3 conference games but yet to see expert predictions at 3 or fewer total wins. I'm fine with your opinion as to a guess on wins and losses but disappointed when posters make up facts that can't be supported.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    July 29, 2013 7:28 p.m.

    I sure hope the players and coaches don't read these articles and comments.

    For Utah the season is about conference positioning. For BYU the season is about bowl positioning.

    Therefore, it is good for BYU to take a "bye" the week before the Utah game. It's an important game.

    But Utes, don't get ahead of yourselves. It's far more important to beat Oregon State the week before the Y game. If you do, than the BYU game is just gravy win or lose.

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    July 29, 2013 8:02 p.m.

    @ PAC man

    "Nobody really cares about your leather helmet era "dominance" when BYU had little more than a club team - 30 of the first 40 games in the series were played at Utah because BYU didn't even have a stadium"

    Gotta love the BYU spin! Y fans try and do everything they can to write off 50 years of history when the statistics and wins/losses are not in their favor. Poor Cougies!!!

  • yarrlydarb Ogden, UT
    July 29, 2013 8:28 p.m.

    Thanks, Mike.

    I didn't know that; actually, I still don't believe it.

    Really, I didn't care about your opinion, that's why I didn't get through the article.

    When, I ask, did good journalism stop reporting the news and start hawking writers' opinions?!

    Personally, I'll just make my own judgments and come to my own conclusions based on my observations not yours.

    Is that okay with you?

    Thanks anyway.

  • The A Game Logan, UT
    July 29, 2013 8:36 p.m.

    BYU won a national championship?! When did this happen!? Wait, wait, wait....AND a Heisman?! This is just too much. What BYU accomplished yesterday in '84 beats whatever arguments Utah might have regarding their SOS. Winning.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    July 29, 2013 9:06 p.m.

    BYU fans will twist any facts they can find to try to find a way to make their team better than Utah. Don't forget you lost to Utah three times in row and that was just in last year's game.

  • sweetnewss Orem, UT
    July 29, 2013 9:56 p.m.

    Come on guys, let's just let them have this one. They need somebody to throw them a bone when it comes to schedule smack. That 2014 schedule is looking BRUTAL!

    A-uconn
    A-Texas
    not yet scheduled (weber state?)
    H-Virginia
    H-Houston
    H-USU
    A-UCF
    H-Nevada
    A-Boise
    A-Middle Tennessee
    H-Southern Miss
    H-UNLV
    Not yet scheduled (Idaho state?)

    yikes..... that is essentially the old mountain west schedule without Utah and TCU. Season ticket holders 4 years into independence will be getting home games of Virginia, Houston, USU, Nevada, Southern Miss, UNLV, and probably a couple FCS schools. Ouch.

    On the bright side though, it could lead to a a pretty good record and possible high ranking. Texas and Boise should be pretty good though and those two games are both on the road. Ugh, that is the worst. Two way hard road games eliminating chance at BCS and a whole bunch of other pretty lackluster games. Even worse, Texas is in week 2. After losing in week 2 and realizing you're going to San Diego Bowl and then finishing the last 10 weeks with that schedule. I can't even imagine. My condolences.

  • sweetnewss Orem, UT
    July 29, 2013 9:58 p.m.

    @yarllydarb I'm guessing you're a cougar fan? Just a shot in the dark.

  • gonefishn Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 11:17 p.m.

    Obsess much? Before you Y fans start ranting and raving about being better than the U you might want to do a google search for the last time you won the match up.

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 11:52 p.m.

    Bleed Crimson

    Utah fans simply can't accept the fact that Utah's first 100 years of football were completely devoid of any real accomplishments on a national scale. The Utes didn't even crack the AP poll for the first time until 1994, 60 years after the poll was established.

    Poor Utesies, pretending that beating up on a club team that wasn't even started until 30 years after the Utes began playing football, and then had to be restarted from scratch after WWII, was some sort of accomplishment.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    July 29, 2013 11:59 p.m.

    sweetnewss

    It's laughable that Utah fans look down their noses at the MWC, when the only claim to fame that the Utes have in their entire history, occurred while the Utes were playing in the MWC.

    Two years after joining the PAC, the Utes still haven't won a single meaningful PAC 12 game.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    July 29, 2013 11:59 p.m.

    @COutie

    Got a pencil and paper??? The first one isthe guy you all like to quote on SOS, Phil Steele, Get his preseason book, The one that I use the most is Marc Lawrence's Playbook (he's an odds maker from Las Vegas)... All you have to do is flip to Utah's schedule and look at the odds... Utah is picked to lose every game except Weber State, Colorado and Washington State and I think that they will lose one of the last two... Look them up and get back to me... I want to hear you say "he was right"... BTW, Utah's odds on the BYU game is 5/8 which means you can bet $5 on Utah to win and win $8... It also means that BYU fans betting on BYU would have to wager $8 to win $5

    Now if we are talking about personal predictions... I think they win 2... The SOS argument is kind of funny because I think that if they were to play BYU's schedule (albeit a weaker schedule according to the experts)They would also only win 2 and that's a maybe... They would probably beat ISU and maybe MTSU.

  • nwcoug White Salmon, WA
    July 30, 2013 2:44 a.m.

    @Co Ute

    My statement is not incorrect. This "study" of toughest schedules is based on preseason predictions and last season results. BYU is between 35-45 in the ratings of publications mentioned in this article for preseason predications. Utah falls in the 60-80 range. While all of it may be bogus because no games have been played, the point remains. BYU is included in the group of schools that strengthens Utah's schedule per this article (Nine teams top 44 in last years sagarin...BYU was #26). Utah on the other hand for the purposes of this article hurts BYU's schedule (Utah was #61). Therefore, it is a fact that using last years sagarin ratings, BYU helps Utah's SOS and Utah hurts BYU's. None of this matters in the end because we don't really know who is better this year. Utah may end up with a weak schedule or vice versa.

  • nwcoug White Salmon, WA
    July 30, 2013 2:50 a.m.

    Ummm Oldtimeballer...I think you skipped the last 2 years in your calculations where Utah has had losing records and missed bowls. None of your "facts" are accurate.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 30, 2013 4:10 a.m.

    @midpacmajor

    Please cite the rule and the date of the change that made Alabama's 2012 AP National Championship any different than BYU's 1984 AP National Championship.

    -------------

    Simple, BCS system all but shuts out mid-majors by guaranteeing a title game to top 2 teams.

    Here let me explain:

    "With the way the [BCS] system is now, there's no question we wouldn't have been No. 1. We probably would have gone to a better bowl, and that would have been great, but there would have been four teams higher than us in the polls." -- Robbie Bosco

    That's essentially what happened last season to BYU's rival, Utah, which finished its regular season unbeaten but never rose higher than No. 6 in the BCS standings. The Utes earned a lucrative trip to the Sugar Bowl, but despite stunning SEC runner-up Alabama, had to settle for No. 2 in the final AP poll [16 votes]" -- SI

    With tougher rules BYU hasn't even sniffed a BCS game, or a top 6 ranking let alone a national title. In fact, TCU over a three year period went 36-3 yet never was a national title contender.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    July 30, 2013 7:59 a.m.

    Glad to see I ruffled a few feathers from the Y faithful.

    Poyman - yep I got a pencil and paper but still waiting for a valid response. You like to cite Vegas odds and make the statement that most of the experts predict no more than 3 wins for the Utes. Now I have the pencil ready to go, so cite me a single Vegas source that puts the Utes over/under at 3 wins this year. Remember you didn't say one expert, you said most. Both the DN and the Trib have published previous articles showing the over/under is around 5.

  • Austin Coug Pflugerville, TX
    July 30, 2013 8:10 a.m.

    I keep hearing this is BYU's toughest schedule ever. It may turn out to be that way but it will be tough to beat out the 2003 schedule. 9 of 12 teams finished that season with 6 or more wins. Their 12 opponents had a combined record of 89 - 60 and 3 of them ended the season nationally ranked, won their conference championship as well as a bowl game (#1 USC, #16 Boise State and #21 Utah). That schedule also included ND and Stanford who were two of the teams that finished under 6 wins.

    As far as Utah goes, they will most likely have a tougher schedule than BYU. That looks good on paper but it is rough on the wins. No wonder BYU finished 2003 with a 4-8 record.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    July 30, 2013 8:14 a.m.

    Uteology

    Sorry, but the "bcs system" is completely irrelevant as far as the AP National Championship is concerned. As USC proved, a team doesn't even have to play in the bcs championship game in order to be selected as the AP National Champion.

    As far as BYU earning the National Championship in 1984, Robbie Bosco said in interviews following the BYU-Michigan game that he felt that BYU deserved to be #1. All FIVE major national selecting organizations of the day, including the AP and Coaches poll voters agreed.

    As far as bcs bowls go, if the bcs had started two years earlier, BYU would have been a shoo-in to play in a bcs bowl in 1996. U can thank BYU 1996 and 2001 for pressuring the bcs to adopt the rules changes that allowed Utah to crack the bcs. Without the relaxed rules for non-AQ teams, the Utes wouldn't have had an opportunity to bust the bcs in 2004.

    The main reason the Utes didn't stand a chance of winning a NC in 2004/2008, is because the Utes did absolutely NOTHING prior to 2004/2008 to put themselves into position to be a NC contender.

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 30, 2013 8:22 a.m.

    CO Ute

    You're seriously quibbling over whether "most experts" expect the Utes to win 3 or 5 games?

    Either way, it'll be another bowl-less season for the Utes, without even the prospect of winning their September bowl versus BYU. With Utah slowly sinking to Colorado's level, the annual pillow fight in the Rockies should be even more exciting this year.

    For all their talk, its becoming clearer and clearer, that the Utes are no walk, when it comes to actually competing with the big boys.

  • CougarSunDevil Phoenix, AZ
    July 30, 2013 8:40 a.m.

    I love you Utah fans. You guys are beating your chests on how strong your schedule is. Yet, how did you do the last two years of PAC-12 play? You were 5-8 last year? So with the new strength added to your schedule by adding the two big boys of the north, we can conclude you'll lose two additional games this year. So you're really getting excited over a potential 3-9 season...that's if you win against BYU and Utah St. It's possible you could go 1-11 with your only win against Weber St. I guess I'll have to agree with you. Utah's schedule is tougher than BYU's. If only BYU could get rid of the Utah game to increase their SOS. LOL

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 30, 2013 10:56 a.m.

    Swoop
    Salt Lake City, UT
    sweetnewss

    It's laughable that Utah fans look down their noses at the MWC, when the only claim to fame that the Utes have in their entire history, occurred while the Utes were playing in the MWC.

    -------------------

    This is the perfect example of Coogie spin.

    This statement is so lame, so far-reaching, and so devoid of any relevant substance that it's tough for me to even grasp what the poster MIGHT have been thinking while writing it.

    I just don't know what to say, other than it has zero logic.

    It's like me saying, "It's funny how BYU looks down their nose at the Utes when some of the most memorable moments in BYU history came versus Utah."

    Sound ridiculous? That's right.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    July 30, 2013 10:57 a.m.

    CougarSunDevil
    Phoenix, AZ

    Utah's schedule is tougher than BYU's. If only BYU could get rid of the Utah game to increase their SOS. LOL

    ----------

    54-10

    LOL

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    July 30, 2013 11:40 a.m.

    Tomahawk Red

    54-IQ is completely irrelevant.

    What is relevant is BYU #26, Utah #61, the final Sagarin ratings for 2012.

    To anybody not living under that crimson bubble on the hill, it's blatantly obvious which team strengthens and which team weakens the SOS of their opponents.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 30, 2013 11:58 a.m.

    Swoop: "It's laughable that Utah fans look down their noses at the MWC, when the only claim to fame that the Utes have in their entire history, occurred while the Utes were playing in the MWC."

    Tomahawk Red: "This is the perfect example of [BYU fan] spin."

    Nope, this is a perfect example of Utah fan denial. Utah fans have been looking down their noses at every non-AQ team and conference since the moment the Utes were invited to join the PAC. However, NOTHING the Utes have done since joining the PAC indicates that the Utes are any better than middle of the road WAC and MWC teams, yet Utah fans continue beating their chests about Utah's conference affiliation as if that, in and of itself, is an accomplishment.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    July 30, 2013 12:15 p.m.

    I agree with Razzle2. If any players are reading this...forget the rivalry...we have it covered. USU and BYU are practice games. Keep your eye on Sep 14 Oregon State. Utah doesn't need undefeated seasons anymore.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 30, 2013 12:57 p.m.

    Razzle2 and Cowboy Dude hit the nail on the head.

    Go Utes...in the games that count.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    July 30, 2013 1:08 p.m.

    CowboyDude

    "Utah doesn't need undefeated seasons anymore."

    Sounds like another convenient excuse for losing.

    Undefeated seasons are still essential, IF, the Utes are ever interested in making the playoffs.

    A one-loss Utah team will be hard-pressed to get a playoff bid versus a one-loss Ohio St, LSU or Oklahoma.

    Even within the big boy conferences, there's a pecking order of elite teams, and not.

    Utah is a "not".

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 30, 2013 1:26 p.m.

    It's laughable how obsessed Utah fans are with games that "don't count". Suspenders boy seemed particularly obsessed, helping the MUSS storm the field THREE times after a game that supposedly didn't count.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    July 30, 2013 1:28 p.m.

    "Sounds like another convenient excuse for losing."
    Playing out a BCS conference is an excuse for the non-conference games? I think you may have lost the order of things.

    What I mean is undefeated in the conference puts you in the "pecking order". The rest of the former BCS bowls have tied up their alliances with BCS conferences. It is now even more difficult for non-AQ schools to get to the Fiesta, Rose, Orange, and Sugar. It's not right, I don't like it, but it's the way it is.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    July 30, 2013 1:37 p.m.

    midpacmajor "It's laughable how obsessed Utah fans are with games that "don't count". Suspenders boy seemed particularly obsessed, helping the MUSS storm the field THREE times after a game that supposedly didn't count."

    Yep, every game has been sold out since 2005. Crazy isn't it? Fans are obsessed even in 5-5 years. What a time to be a Ute!

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 30, 2013 1:40 p.m.

    The desperate clawing of the byu "fans" trying to pull Utah down to their level is amusing.

  • redfeather Palo Alto, CA
    July 30, 2013 1:55 p.m.

    Canyontreker

    It'll be interesting to see how many fans actually show up to watch the Utah-Colorado game in November if the Utes are only 3-8 come game time.

    Yep, the excitement of 2004/2008 and the mystique of being in the PAC will eventually fade. With the steady beat of losing seasons driving away the bandwagon fans, RES will could easily begin to look just like the HC, as vast sea of empty red chairs.

    There's a reason Chris Hill is holding back on stadium expansion. He's already seen what happens to his fan base when the fans are no longer excited about the product they're seeing on the court/field.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    July 30, 2013 2:00 p.m.

    ekute

    "The desperate clawing of the BYU "fans" trying to pull Utah down to their level is amusing."

    Not nearly as amusing as the desperate escape from reality happening on the hill.

    Average Sagarin Ranking During the Independent/PAC era
    BYU #30
    Utah #50

    Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    Bowl Appearances
    BYU 2
    Utah 1

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    July 30, 2013 2:08 p.m.

    Only in that crimson bubble on the hill could one team drag another team "down" from Utah's average Sagarin ranking level of 50th to BYU's average Sagarin ranking level of 30th.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    July 30, 2013 2:28 p.m.

    Redfeather

    I don't think so. Perhaps it will get easier to get tickets. Perhaps my wife and I will get to sit together. Perhaps I can afford a whole season of tickets. For now, I'm at the basketball games and a few single football tickets apart from each other.

    Colorado is still "The Buffs" the powerhouse of the 90's and the Big 8. 1990 National Champions and since then winner of 2 Orange Bowls and 2 Fiesta Bowls. Yeah, I will still go those games.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    July 30, 2013 2:39 p.m.

    By the way - FYI - Not getting into every game at RES isn't so bad. I will be at the Colosseum this year, again.

    AND

    I will be in Southbend in November! We had so much fun at Notre Dame with the Utes we can't wait to go back with the Cougs. I may even buy some stuff at the Cougar store.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 30, 2013 3:54 p.m.

    @talkinsports: "A one-loss Utah team will be hard-pressed to get a playoff bid versus a one-loss Ohio St, LSU or Oklahoma."

    A one loss Utah team has a MUCH better chance at a playoff spot then one loss BYU. So what?

    The pecking order: SEC, Big 12, PAC-12, Big 10, ACC, Notre Dame

    You're not even on the list.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 30, 2013 5:34 p.m.

    Uteology

    The pecking order: could be SEC, Big 12, PAC-12, Big 10, ACC, Notre Dame, but only if USC is the PAC 12 representative; if it's UCLA, Stanford, or Oregon, they'll be 4th or 5th, behind the Big 10 and Notre Dame; if it's Utah, they'll be behind the SEC, Big 12, Big 10, ACC, Notre Dame, and one-loss teams like Boise St and BYU.

    Don't count on BYU not being on the list, especially when you've lost to the Cougars.

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    July 30, 2013 6:28 p.m.

    @uteology

    Pecking order is meaningless for a team that's only good enough to qualify for the couch potato bowl.

    Repeating Utah's MWC flash-in-the-pan success would require the Utes winning a road game or two against a PAC opponent with a winning record, something the Utes haven't done this century.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    July 30, 2013 6:30 p.m.

    OK, let's come back from lala land. BYU and Utah are not going to be 1-loss teams with this year's schedules.

    The pecking order is...signature win, PAC-12 South Championship, Rose Bowl, and lala land.

    Utah's only game that counts before October is Oregon State at home. If they win and pull another win at home October 3 UCLA, they are still sitting pretty even with a Stanford loss October 12.

    It's a long shot, but Utah has time on their side with this schedule.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    July 30, 2013 8:51 p.m.

    @midpacmajor - big difference between quibbling over the number of wins and calling out a poster that makes a false claim that 'most experts predict Utah won't win more than 3 games'.

    As for your comments about Utah, we shall see. Both USA Today and CBS Sports think Utah will make a bowl game this year which is why they play the games.

  • bribri86 Phoenix, AZ
    July 30, 2013 9:32 p.m.

    Tomahawk Red
    North Salt Lake, UT

    54-10

    LOL

    Hey Tomahawk

    37-7.

    Go Devils!

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    July 30, 2013 10:03 p.m.

    BYU is obviously better than Utah at football. It's why they beat them every year at football.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 30, 2013 11:45 p.m.

    @Rockwell
    if it's UCLA, Stanford, or Oregon, they'll be 4th or 5th, behind the Big 10 and Notre Dame; if it's Utah, they'll be behind the SEC, Big 12, Big 10, ACC, Notre Dame, and one-loss teams like Boise St and BYU.

    -----------

    Like in 2008 where Utah and Boise State finished 12-0? I'll let you do the research and find out which team accomplished your "Quest".

    Or like 2001 when "BCS denies Cougars; BYU headed to Liberty".

    A Division 4 team with a top 15 SOS with one loss will be behind a Division 3 team like BYU or Boise? Priceless logic!!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 30, 2013 11:48 p.m.

    @backpacn

    Pecking order is meaningless for a team that's only good enough to qualify for the couch potato bowl

    -------------

    Yet your fan-base is talking about playoffs. Yes playoffs for a team that still can't even make a BCS game.

    Think baby steps...

    "BYU’s history from the Cotton Bowl victory forward has been very pedestrian; no undefeated seasons, no BCS bowl games and most importantly no BCS Bowl game wins.

    BYU might want to crawl before it walks so here is what they may want to concentrate on doing first, how about beating or staying within two scores of TCU?"

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    July 31, 2013 1:30 a.m.

    CO Utie,

    Sorry, I just remembered to check back on this... You alo have to be able to do a little math... As you go through the schedule for the sources I gave you, you will see that Utah is only favored in 3 games and the other team they are playing (including BYU) is favored in all of the other games... That's how I was able to deduce that Utah is expected to have a 3 win season...

    Again, Marc Lawrence is a Las Vegas College Football Odds Maker... Get his magazine at the store and look up Utah's schedule...

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    July 31, 2013 7:40 a.m.

    @cougie independence...."Little brother on the hill can still keep trying. When Utah goes 4-8, all we will hear about in the off season from Utah fans will be how hard their schedule was, and BYU fans will ask if they have put another Pac12 sticker on the back window of their car this year?

    Keep storming that field Utah fans."

    We already know what cougie fans will say next off season don't we. The exact same thing they say every off season. "Although Utah beat us again on the field were still better than them. This year we will dominate them and go to a BCS and have 38 all americans on the team"....LOL We know you would all storm the field after beating Utah led by ducky only problem is you can't beat Utah......LOL!

    Keep Storming the field after a hail marry to beat a bad Utah St. team on your home field cougie fans.....LOL

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    July 31, 2013 7:56 a.m.

    Uteology

    "Yet your fan-base is talking about playoffs. Yes playoffs for a team that still can't even make a BCS game."

    BYU was 4 plays away from being 11-1 and a serious contender for a bcs bowl last season. As we've seen with Utah, Hawaii and No Illinois, all it takes is one great season to bust the bcs.

    "A Division 4 team with a top 15 SOS with one loss will be behind [BYU]...?"

    A whatever division Utah team with a Top 15 SOS has never even come close to finishing with only one loss, so yes, the Utes would be behind BYU.

    Before talking about making the playoffs, the Utes might want to start with their own baby steps and beat their first conference foe with a winning record. U couldn't even beat the only WAC team on your schedule last year, and when was the last time the Utes stayed within two scores of Boise St?

    Utah fans talk big, but in reality, the Utes are nothing more than another power conference Vanderbilt, Duke, Indiana or Iowa St. Colorado and Washington St appreciate the company in the basement of the PAC.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 31, 2013 8:16 a.m.

    Uteology

    Before talking about the playoffs, U may want to do a bit of crawling yourself.

    If BYU's history since 1996 has been "pedestrian", FIVE AP Top 25 finishes, THREE Top 15 finishes. What does that say about the Utes, with only FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history.

    What exactly has Utah done since 2008 that gives you even the slightest clue that the Utes will ever be a playoff contender?

    One #18 finish? 2-1 in bowls? One losing, bowl-less season? No wins against a PAC team with a winning record? No wins against AP Top 25 teams? A home loss to a 10-loss team that hadn't won a road game in 4 years?

    Since 2008, BYU has a Top 12 finish, has beaten two AP Top 25 teams, is 4-0 in bowls, has no losing seasons, and hasn't lost to a 10-loss team in almost 30 years.

    Utah's ONLY significant accomplishment since joining the PAC, is beating barely ranked BYU, an accomplishment that was negated by that ugly loss to Colorado.

    Fans who live in glass houses should avoid casting stones at more accomplished programs.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    July 31, 2013 8:34 a.m.

    Take off the blinders Uteology and you'll see that the Utes have been in steady decline since 2008.

    Two years ago, Utah couldn't even get past a 10-loss team at home to secure a gift-wrapped PAC South, and now you're talking playoffs for a team wasn't even good enough to qualify for a bowl last year?

    Get real!

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    July 31, 2013 8:49 a.m.

    2b

    BYU beat Utah St on a short-pass over the middle that was tipped, but completed, despite the pass interference that would have given BYU 1st and goal inside the 5.

    BYU beat one Top 25 team and lost to three others by 1, 3 and 6 points, 10 points total.

    Every one of Utah's 7 losses, including to 5 unranked teams, was by at least a touchdown, 5 by double digits.

    BYU finished #26 in Sagarin; Utah finished #61.

    Keep beating your chest about your lucky win against BYU, because that's all you've got.

    This year, U won't even have that.

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    July 31, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    Utah's schedule "superior"? Thanks for the preseason hyperbole. I think this article was written just to stir the pot or an offering to help the utes handle another losing season. Can't figure it out.

    If utah lays an egg this year, with the new changes being discussed, they may find themselves booted out of the PAC 12 along with Colorado with a , "go back to where you came from" letter.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    July 31, 2013 9:51 a.m.

    It's nice to see that regardless of topic, BYU and Utah fans can both turn the discussion into the same mind-numbing statements. In an attempt to change the family tree, may I pose several honest, admittedly BYU biased questions? (Also I think most of these questions apply either way...)

    So does the fact that Utah does indeed have a tougher schedule than BYU mean that Utah fans are also willing to acknowledge BYU's victories over Oklahoma, Miami, and even Pitt as tremendous victories? Because it really is the same thing. Your SOS LOOKS tough now, but how will it look in the end?

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    July 31, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    And let's suppose that Utah went undefeated. With each victory, would your strength of schedule go down, while each of your victims' SOS would indeed steadily increase? Kind of ironic, really. Makes SOS less appealing as a drum to beat when trying to elevate yourselves.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    July 31, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    Uteology

    Unlike 2004 and 2008, unless the Utes get booted from the PAC, Utah will never have another season where they play all of their decent regular season opponents at home.

    And, since the Utes haven't had a road win against a PAC team with a winning record since the Utes were in the WAC, the prospects for Utah even challenging for a PAC title, let alone a playoff berth, are slim and none.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    July 31, 2013 10:03 a.m.

    Finally, does your most recent victory over BYU last season really make you the better team, last year? No denying that U really did beat BYU on the field, head to head, but does the same logic mean that two years ago, Colorado was better than U?

    Or, as some U fans have already been saying on these boards, which is more important, a victory over Oregon State or a victory over BYU? Obviously, a winning season, return to a bowl game, and the requisite wins over PAC whatever teams that would be required to bring such a dream to reality, all would not be negated just because of a loss to BYU.

    Yet U fans cannot bring themselves to admit that last year, BYU lost the battle but won the war. Similarly, BYU defeating USU did not prevent USU from having the acknowledged better season.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    July 31, 2013 10:20 a.m.

    Y Grad / Y Dad

    "So does the fact that Utah does indeed have a tougher schedule than BYU mean that Utah fans are also willing to acknowledge BYU's victories over Oklahoma, Miami, and even Pitt as tremendous victories?"

    Not likely.

    According to the crimson glasses wearers, Utah's wins against Pittsburgh, Michigan, USC, UCLA, and Texas A&M will always be considered "great" victories, regardless of how mediocre those teams were when Utah beat them.

    On the other hand, BYU's wins against Pittsburgh, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, Miami, UCLA, Texas A&M, Penn St, Washington, Oregon St, Oregon, and Notre Dame will always be considered "mediocre", since none of those teams could have been any good if BYU beat them.

    According to Utah fans, BYU didn't beat "anybody" in 1984, even though BYU beat Air Force(8-4) on the road and the Falcons finished #24 in the final AP poll.

    By comparison, Utah had a great Fiesta Bowl victory in 2004, even though the Utes beat Pittsburgh(8-4) on a neutral field and the Panthers only finished #25 in the final AP poll.

    As you said, SOS, like final rankings, may look entirely different by season's end.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    July 31, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    Uteology

    "...like 2001 when "BCS denies Cougars; BYU headed to Liberty"

    It's laughable that you mock BYU's exclusion from a BCS bowl in 2001, since it was that exclusion, along with BYU's exclusion from an Alliance bowl in 1996, that precipitated the BCS rule change that relaxed the requirements for non-AQ teams and made it possible for the Utes to bust the BCS in 2004.

    As far as a Utah team with a Top 15 SOS finishing undefeated or with only one loss, don't count on it. The Utes have never even had a 10-win season versus a Top 15 SOS. In 2004 and 2008, Utah's schedules were ranked between 50th and 70th.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 31, 2013 10:55 a.m.

    Seems that head to head matches between Utah and byu are meaningful only if byu wins.

    You guys are funny.

    Go Utes.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 31, 2013 11:13 a.m.

    @anti BCS
    [SPIN] As far as bcs bowls go, if the bcs had started two years earlier, BYU would have been a shoo-in to play in a bcs bowl in 1996. U can thank BYU 1996 and 2001 for pressuring the bcs to adopt the rules changes that allowed Utah to crack the bcs.

    --------------

    FACT: No one loss mid-major ever made a BCS bowl game until after 2004 when the BCS rules actually changed.

    Let me see if I understand you correctly, you want to give credit to the 1996 BYU team for pressuring the BCS to change its rules two years before the BCS actually created the initials rules (BCS was created in 1998)? Priceless Cougar logic!!

    What's next? Your 40+ years of "discussions" pressured the PAC-10 to invite Utah?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 31, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    I don't remember ever seeing a comment by a Utah, Utah State or any other programs' fans justifying a loss on the field and saying it doesn't matter because...

    You guys are funny.

    Go Utes

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 31, 2013 11:29 a.m.

    @skywalker

    Your entire post is wrong. BCS rules changed after 2004, look it up.

    Utah's last two SOS were #49 and #41 according to USA Today (BYU #90 and #63). BYU's SOS this is year predicted at #49 according to PS.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    July 31, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    Uteology

    "Let me see if I understand you correctly, you want to give credit to the 1996 BYU team for pressuring the BCS to change its rules two years before the BCS actually created the initials rules (BCS was created in 1998)? Priceless Cougar logic!!"

    "Cougar logic" has nothing to do with it; it's simply a matter of understanding history.

    If you knew anything about the history of the Bowl Alliance and the BCS, you'd know that rules for both were created by the same core group of schools and conferences, and that years of pressure on that group to make the process more inclusive eventually lead to the BCS rule change that made it possible for Utah to qualify for a BCS bowl in 2004.

    Claiming something couldn't happen, simply because it hasn't happened before, is priceless Ute logic.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    July 31, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    ekute

    Seems that overall season records and rankings are only meaningful if Utah has a better record or is higher ranked.

    U guys are hillarious with your one-game per season obsession.

    ----------

    Uteology

    "BCS rules changed after 2004, look it up."

    BCS rules changes became effective for the 2004 season; read more carefully.

    -------

    "Utah's last two SOS were..."

    Who cares?

    SOS rankings are MEANINGLESS if U don't win!

    During the Independent/PAC era:

    BYU has been ranked #34 and #26 in final Sagarin rankings; average #30.
    Utah has been ranked #39 and #61; average #50.

    The rankings are calculated by comparing record versus SOS, so stop blaming your low ranking on your SOS.

    Unless the Utes are planning to create a SOS trophy shelf in their hall of fame closet, I'd suggest dropping the SOS bravado. The only thing SOS proves is whether you've been tested, or not. It doesn't prove how good you are, or aren't.

    The best team in the country could conceivably have the easiest SOS; and conversely, the worst team in the country could have the most difficult SOS.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 31, 2013 1:15 p.m.

    Our winning domination over byu is between Utah and byu.

    A win is win, a loss is a loss, between 2 teams, always more meaningful if the 2 teams are rivals.

    Have you guys ever heard a Utah fan say that it doesn't matter that we lost to Colorado because we ended up with a better record or a higher ranking?

    Have you guys ever heard a Bama fan say that it doesn't matter that they lost to Utah because they're in the SEC or because they ended with a better record and a higher SOS?

    Have you guys ever heard a Utah fan say that it doesn't matter that we lost to Utah State because we're in the Pac12.

    You byu fans are funny.

    Go Utes.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    July 31, 2013 1:18 p.m.

    @co utie

    You said:
    "big difference between quibbling over the number of wins and calling out a poster that makes a false claim that 'most experts predict Utah won't win more than 3 games'."

    The only person on this board making false claims is you... You claim that USA Today predicts the Uties will get to a bowl... I read the article and that is not what it says... The writer first of all gives your team #61 power rating aginst a total of 126 FBS teams... He says that your team will not win more than 3 or 4 games in league and that if that should occur you would have to win all of your NC games (Weber, BYU and USU)... He concluded by implying that that type of achievement is more likely to be beyond this season. CBS Spors does list you for the Albuquerque Bowl but there are 35 Post Season games and I guess they think that the uties will be in the top 70... I do too, but I don't think they'll be Bowl Eligible again.

    As for my 3 win season projection, I gave you sources (twice) did you check them out?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 31, 2013 1:20 p.m.

    So you guys went bowling last year and Utah stayed home.

    Is it possible that if you had't of lost to Utah, byu would of had an even higher ranking or went to a better bowl.

    It does matter.

    Go Utes.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    July 31, 2013 2:13 p.m.

    @troytown..."It's laughable that you use whiny "injured QB" excuses, while completely ignoring the fact that BYU played an injured starting QB for most of the season."

    No excuses Utah still beat the Y despite this fact...LOL!

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    July 31, 2013 2:14 p.m.

    ekute

    What do all of these have in common?

    #1 Alabama > #5 Texas A&M
    #2 Oregon > #6 Stanford
    #5 Georgia > #8 So Carolina
    #9 Florida > #13 Louisville
    #12 Kansas St > unranked Baylor
    #16 Utah St > unranked BYU

    All of the teams on the left lost to the teams to their right, yet the teams on the left were ALL ranked HIGHER than the teams on the right.

    Why?

    Because one game does not a season make, except, apparently, under that crimson bubble on the hill.

    BYU losing to Utah DOES matter, but it's not the ONLY thing that matters.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    July 31, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    Right, winning a head-to-head one game does not make you the better team. Everyone gets lucky. Like Utah's two undefeated seasons in the BCS era (against BYU, TCU, and Alabama). Just dumb luck

    Winning four out of five head-to-head games against BYU only proves "U" are reallyx4 lucky.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    July 31, 2013 2:34 p.m.

    Uteology

    The highest-ranked champion of a non-AQ conference will receive an automatic berth if:
    - It is ranked in the top 12, or
    - Ranked in the top 16 and higher than at least one AQ conference champion.

    So why didn't undefeated #10 Tulane(11-0) in 1998 or undefeated #12 Marshall(12-0) in 1999 play in a BCS bowl?

    Tulane and Marshall were both conference champions and both were ranked in the Top 12 in the final BCS standings.

    Quite obviously, the rules were changed between 1998 and 2004, to ensure that undefeated #6 Utah(11-0) in 2004 WAS invited to play in a BCS bowl.

    It's also quite obvious that the rule change was instituted AFTER 2001, since the BCS committee announced BEFORE undefeated #12 BYU played Hawaii, that BYU was no longer under consideration for a BCS bowl.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    July 31, 2013 2:47 p.m.

    Razzle2

    Right, being ranked higher and having a better record does not make you the better team. It's simply dumb luck to finish a compete season with a higher ranked and better record.

    btw, why did you mention BYU, TCU and Alabama, instead of Colorado State, Wyoming, and New Mexico?

    After all, rank and record are meaningless, regardless of how much higher the rank or how much better the record.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 31, 2013 3:01 p.m.

    @Snack PAC

    Wrong. The so called pressure from BYU's success in 1996 and 2001 did nothing for:

    1998 Tulane 13-0
    1999 Marshall 12-0
    2002 Boise 12-1
    2003 Boise State 13-1
    2004 Boise State 12-0
    2004 Louisville 11-1

    There was no rule change prior to 2004, if it was it didn't help the teams above. The only credit BYU gets is being a "speed bump" to what Utah accomplished twice.

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    July 31, 2013 3:03 p.m.

    @atl134..."Our starting QB got injured two years in a row... generally teams tend to struggle when that happens."

    @troytown..."It's laughable that you use whiny "injured QB" excuses, while completely ignoring the fact that BYU played an injured starting QB for most of the season."

    @2b... "No excuses Utah still beat the Y despite this fact..."

    The whiny, injured QB excuse wasn't just re: the BYU-Utah game, it was used to excuse Utah's last TWO SEASONS.

    Besides, you've rarily, if ever, heard this excuse being used by BYU fans, although it's been used repeatedly by Utah fans.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 31, 2013 4:30 p.m.

    @skywalker

    Tulane and Marshall were both conference champions and both were ranked in the Top 12 in the final BCS standings.

    Quite obviously, the rules were changed between 1998 and 2004, to ensure that undefeated #6 Utah(11-0) in 2004 WAS invited to play in a BCS bowl.
    ----------

    Nope.

    Utah with it's high ranking qualified automatically, Tulane, Marshall, and Miami-OH were at large bits (aka no guarantee of a BCS game). In 2001 BYU was NOT even an at large bid.

    At large bids:

    1998 #12 Marshall
    1999 #10 Tulane
    2003 #11 Miami (OH)

    In 2004 #6 Utah was not a potential at large bid, instead Utah automatically qualified finishing in the top 6. Just like #4 Texas that year.

    Source: BCS selections history (at BCSFootball)

    Feel free to look up the selection process.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    July 31, 2013 5:08 p.m.

    Uteology

    "Utah with it's high ranking qualified automatically..."

    Nope, you're just blowing smoke because there is no such rule.

    Under Rule 3 of the current rules, Tulane and Marshall would have been automatic qualifiers IF the rule had existed in 1998 or 1999.

    3. The champion of Conference USA, the Mid-American Conference, the Mountain West Conference, or the Sun Belt Conference (hereinafter "non-AQ group") will earn an automatic berth in a BCS bowl game if either:
    A. Such team is ranked in the top 12 of the final BCS Standings
    B. Such team is ranked in the top 16 of the final BCS Standings and its ranking in the final BCS Standings is higher than that of a champion of a conference that has an annual automatic berth in one of the BCS bowls.

    The fact that Tulane and Marshall didn't play in a BCS bowl is proof positive that the rule didn't exist in 1998 or 1999.

    The fact that the BCS selection ruled out even the "possibility" of BYU receiving a bid, before BYU had played Hawaii, is proof positive the rule didn't exist in 2001.

    Feel free to look it up.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 31, 2013 6:56 p.m.

    @CordonBleu

    Uteology

    "Utah with it's high ranking qualified automatically..."

    Nope, you're just blowing smoke because there is no such rule.

    -------------

    I can't be any more clear then copy and pasting from the direct source: BCS website

    2004-05 Games

    Teams qualifying automatically by winning conference championships:
    ACC -- Virginia Tech
    Big East -- Pittsburgh
    Big Ten -- Michigan
    Big 12 -- Oklahoma (defeated Colorado in championship game)
    Pac-10 -- Southern California
    Southeastern -- Auburn (defeated Tennessee in championship game)

    Other teams qualifying automatically
    No. 4 Texas
    No. 6 Utah

    Other teams eligible for at-large selection by the bowls
    None

    Step-by-step process
    1. Orange Bowl was championship game -- No. 1 Southern California and No. 2 Oklahoma.
    2. Rose Bowl had Big Ten champion Michigan.
    3. Sugar Bowl had SEC champion Auburn.
    4. Rose Bowl took Texas to replace Southern California after the Fiesta Bowl consented to release Texas.
    5. Fiesta Bowl selected Utah to replace Oklahoma.
    6. Sugar Bowl selected Virginia Tech.
    7. Fiesta Bowl selected Pittsburgh.

    Pairings
    Orange Bowl (championship game) -- Southern California vs. Oklahoma
    Fiesta Bowl -- Utah vs. Pittsburgh
    Sugar Bowl -- Auburn vs. Virginia Tech
    Rose Bowl -- Texas vs. Michigan

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 31, 2013 7:55 p.m.

    ...Continued

    "Until before the 2006 season, a non-BCS school had to be ranked in the top six for a guaranteed spot in a BCS bowl game. Under congressional pressure and with the advent of a fifth -- the BCS national championship game -- bowl, the standard for "mid-major" schools were relaxed to guarantee a spot for any team in the top 12."

    So indeed Utah was picked for being ranked in the top 6. And also true that BCS rules didn't change until after 2004 for non-AQ team qualification.

    It's also true that regardless of the rules BYU hasn't even sniffed a BCS bowl, that is hasn't even been "eligible for at-large selection".

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    July 31, 2013 9:14 p.m.

    Uteology

    "before the 2006 season, a non-BCS school had to be ranked in the top six for a guaranteed spot in a BCS bowl game."

    No such rule existed in 1998, 1999, or 2001. That's the whole point. The rule guaranteeing a non-BCS school finishing in the Top 6 a spot in a BCS bowl game didn't exist before 2004.

    Even if Tulane, Marshall, or BYU had been undefeated and ranked in the Top 5, there was no guarantee that any of them would have received a BCS bowl bid. You can thank BYU and other school like Tulane and Marshall for creating the public pressure that eventually forced the BCS to relax its non-AQ rules to be more inclusive.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    July 31, 2013 9:25 p.m.

    uteology: It's also true that regardless of the rules BYU hasn't even sniffed a BCS bowl, that is hasn't even been "eligible for at-large selection".

    BYU was Eligible for at-large selection in 2009:
    5. Florida
    6. Boise State
    10. Iowa
    11. Virginia Tech
    13. Penn State
    14. BYU

    BYU(11-2) finished 2009 ranked #12/#12 in the polls, with a win over #18/#18 Utah, and a re-sounding defeat of then #16/#16 Oregon State in the Las Vegas Bowl, better than anything Utah has accomplished in the last four years.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    July 31, 2013 10:11 p.m.

    @ekutie

    No, BYU would not have gone to a better bowl had the Center not snapped the ball to no one in the backfield, or had Sorenson been able to convert a gimmee field goal against the uties on their home field last year... BYU was under contract and unless we qualified for a BCS Bowl we were obligated to play in San Diego... BTW, where did yo guys p..., Oh wait.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 31, 2013 10:55 p.m.

    Marked it Down
    Park City, UT

    Uteology

    "before the 2006 season, a non-BCS school had to be ranked in the top six for a guaranteed spot in a BCS bowl game."

    No such rule existed in 1998, 1999, or 2001. That's the whole point. The rule guaranteeing a non-BCS school finishing in the Top 6 a spot in a BCS bowl game didn't exist before 2004.

    -------------

    What are you talking about? Yes it did. That's not my words. I told you the source, do your own research.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 31, 2013 11:09 p.m.

    @Mark id Down

    The rules in 2004 for non-AQ teams were the same as 1998, they change in prior to the 2005 season.

    Here's some research:

    "Prior to 2005, non-BCS schools had to finish in the top six to get an automatic berth. That meant the likes of Tulane (12-0, No. 10 in 1998) and Marshall (13-0, No. 12 in 1999) didn't get a shot. Utah did break through, finishing sixth in 2004.

    It took the threat of Congressional intervention for the qualification standards to be loosened prior to the 2005 season [After Utah busted the BCS monopoly]. Since then, WAC champions Boise State (2006) and Hawaii (2007) have taken advantage of the top 12 threshold to cash in on lucrative BCS paydays. But even then, both schools had to go undefeated in the regular season to get there."

    Guarantee for non-BCS schools is no molehill for Mountain West duo
    Dennis Dodd (CBS Sports)
    Sep. 10, 2008

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    July 31, 2013 11:42 p.m.

    Uteology

    PROVE that the rule existed prior to 2004; it obviously existed in 2004, which is before 2006, but you haven't offered a shred of proof that it existed before 2004.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 1, 2013 8:58 a.m.

    @Marked it Down

    Uteology

    PROVE that the rule existed prior to 2004; it obviously existed in 2004, which is before 2006, but you haven't offered a shred of proof that it existed before 2004.

    --------------

    I provided two sources that say the rule did exist prior to 2004.

    "Prior to 2005, non-BCS schools had to finish in the top six to get an automatic berth. That meant the likes of Tulane (12-0, No. 10 in 1998) and Marshall (13-0, No. 12 in 1999) didn't get a shot. Utah did break through, finishing sixth in 2004." -- CBS Sports

    It's okay if you refuse acknowledge it. It's obvious you have bigger issues, so at this point I rather spend my time debating my kitchen table.