Perhaps let us make the prime topic why do so many or our youth raised in
families without a father present and who are involved with gangs end up in
trouble? Maybe we could add "is a high proportion of those sent to
prison because of a lack of a family or other support system"? If this is a
high percentage of a certain race, maybe we should work on building strong
families not protesting. I think these ideas hold true in all races.
The reason we can't have a dialog on race in this country is because we
can't have an honest dialog on the topic. For example, in 1960 there was a
higher percentage of two-parent black homes than two-parent white homes. What
happened to destroy the black family by the end of the century? There is a
political faction in this country that does not want that question answered
honestly.If a black man like Bill Cosby, with no political agenda to
grind, wants to discuss solutions to the social problems faced by blacks, it
doesn't create a dialog. It creates an outcry, a furor, a spewing forth of
hateful comments from those who cannot tolerate opinions other than their own.
How can a dialog exist in that environment.If someone observes there
are more blacks in the criminal justice system because they commit more crimes,
nobody wants to evaluate whether the evidence supports that theory. Instead,
they want to immediately crucify the messenger as racist. How can a dialog
happen in that environment?To have a dialog, you have to be willing
to listen to and consider opinions that differ from your own.
Most of the commits I have seen talk as if Zimmerman was white. One of the big
problems we have is that the news media will alter a story just to push their
agenda and generate money. The media as shown in this article indicates that
Zimmerman was white and that is not the fact. So they turn it into a race riot
that is generated by the media and then they can report on the riots that are
going on also. While all this is going on the media takes no responsibility for
any of it.
I agree that the media was a big part of the problem in having a reasonable
trial or outcome of a tragic happening. The media and a bunch of politicians,
who have an agenda and not the welfare of the people of the U.S.A. at heart, are
causing all of us grief. And it is also true that we have a significant portion
of the population not willing to consider any viewpoints but their own. It all
adds up to trouble, and we are in a mire of it.
If I ever decide to shoot an unarmed teenager, I hope I get this jury.
Trayvon was guilty of bringing skittles to a gun fight.
Why does this one case deserve discussion? Because according to the radical
leftists, anarchists, and marxists they didn't get the results they
wanted...so they claim the system is broken? So we need to change the
system...to what? One in which the black guy always wins? This is nuts! Oh, and
thanks to the leftist media and their agenda for stirring up the public on this
one case. They very wisely leave out of the news any black on white or black on
Latino crimes. And black racism is okay.@EdGrady / @Ernest T.
BassIt's the jury's fault...Really? Serious? Don't you
think it's possible that the jury had just a bit more information than you
in coming to their conclusion? Give your repetition of spoon-fed media hype a
rest. You ought to do a little more research than simply turning on MSNBC.
There is a lesson to be learned from this case. If a shady character is
following me and I am close to home, I plan to run as fast as I can for the
safety of my house, not turn and attack him. But then most of us already knew
edgrady and etbass; were both of you in the court room? did you hear every word
that was spoken, did you listen to the instructions of the judge, and did you
spend 16 hours in deliberation with those jurors? Perhaps there is more to this
than meets your eye.
All worthy topics of discussion. Now the next question is "who is in a
position to lead / moderate this discussion?"
Trial by jury has produced "unfavorable" outcomes for centuries.
Perhaps the most famous early example was the trial of British soldiers in the
Boston Massacre. The people of Boston demanded justice or even revenge, much
like with this case. The soldiers had a difficult time finding an attorney to
defend them. They ended up being represented John Adams - one who despised
British rule, would be perhaps the leading voice demanding independence, and a
much respected patriot. Adams said during the trial "Facts are
stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the
dictates of our passion they cannot alter the state of facts and
evidence."The soldiers were not convicted. People were mad.
John Adams didn't like the soldiers being in America (or what had happened
in the massacre) but he realized the rule of law should rule the land - not a
mob. He continued to be well respected and went on to serve the American cause
with passion. The founders put the same system into our constitution which had
produced "unfavorable" results in Boston.We should remember
lessons learned from our early history when thinking about the current
controversy with the Martin case.
I agree with the author: juries are essential to the justice system. Social
media and lackluster (or agenda driven) coverage of news like the Zimmerman
trial are the problems, not the jury system. The jurors heard all the
appropriate evidence, and made their decision according to the law in Florida.
No real evidence of jury nullification has surfaced, and it appears as though
the jurors wanted to reach a different verdict, but could not do so under the
law. The real issue in this case and this story isn't the
justice system, it is obviously race. A young man was killed. And that young
man was black. Was he racially profiled by Mr. Zimmerman? Maybe. Is that
illegal? No. If there were reports of burglaries by a young black man, and the
neighborhood watchman saw a young black man acting suspiciously and acted upon
it, that isn't racial profiling. And while we may never know the exact
sequence of events that led up to the gunshot, the facts and evidence presented
to the jury in this case was insufficient to satisfy the burden of proof. Fix the familial problems, then worry about race.
Ernest T. Bass: C'mon! He also jumped and beat the tar out of another
human being! There was plenty of blame to go around in this case. GZ should
have been slower to judge, and then should have waited for the police to come.
Treyvon should not have attacked GZ, punched him in the face, broken his nose
and repeatedly slammed GZ's head into the ground. I might add that what GZ
did may not have been right, but it was not illegal either. What Treyvon M did
to GZ was, however, extremely illegal (assault and battery), and triggered the
right for GZ to then defend himself. I am getting tired of each
side politicizing every event, and trying to score debate points while
conveniently leaving out exculpatory evidence and context. Hey - the
Zimmerman/Martin tragedy and trial should cause us to think deeply about a
number of issues, and to have significant dialogue on underlying causes of these
problems. To do so, however, will require everyone to be more intellectually
honest, less emotional, and to let go of biases and political talking points.
Ya know, I've heard for years that the fine residents of Utah harbored
racist sentiments, and I didn't believe it utnil I read some of the
comments posted herein.
Perhaps it would be beneficial to look into the back round of a certain young
man who has a retired judge as a father. A father with quite unique judicial
powers to be able to "doctor up and cover up" his son, George's,
criminal history. Honesty would have been beneficial.George
Zimmerman's attorneys refused to let his criminal back round be admitted
into the trial. Deceit and legal trickery abounded on the defense side in this
trial. And...... we are now hearing about conflicts and preferential treatment
occurring during deliberation of the Zimmerman trial concerning the female
jurors.Gee whiz....it would have shown nothing other than dishonesty and
deceit trickled down in the Zimmerman household. GZ definitely was not the man
his attorneys portrayed him to be.
Look People, it is what it is..Let it go and move on!
I got a notice for possible jury duty next month. Where can I get one of those
"Justice for Trayvon" T-shirts in case I get called in?
most of the posts here seem to be thoroughly-reasoned opinions that avoided
quick superficial judgments. EdGrady's attacks on the posts here as
somehow reflecting racism is ludicrous.
Why now are progressive, liberal people calling for dialog about the black
problem. Why did they not cry out after the black O J Simpson butchered two
"white" human beings. The race problem in this country is far less a
white problem than it is a black problem. Oh, and people like Ed Grady and the
Thornbirds, that think they are superior are a gigantic part of our problem. We
definitely need to return to the nation that our fore-fathers founded!
caleb: I made the same observation. I assume EdGrady's post says more about
him than it does about Utahans in general or the people who posted on this
People subject to political pressure should not make decisions about who to
@mapledonI agree with the decision the jury made, I think it was the
only decision they could have made based on the evidence presented to them.
Having said that I wonder how you think that your characterization is any less
inflammatory and divisive then those you are speaking out against. Baiting can
take many forms and yours is no less so because it comes from a conservative.
Let's attempt to have an honest discussion, starting with EdGrady and
Ernest T. Bass.When Trayvon Martin jumped Zimmerman and started to
beat the tar out of him, what did you expect Zimmerman to do? Scream for help?
Yeah, he did that, and it didn't help. What else then? Ask him politely?
"Excuse me, but could you please get off of me and stop throwing punches?
It's starting to hurt". Yeah, I'm sure that would have worked
well. Seriously, what should Zimmerman have done? Just let himself get killed by
an irate teenager on drugs?My guess is that you will say Zimmerman
should not have left his car. That is true. However, to say that Zimmerman
caused it by leaving his car is like saying that Martin caused it by buying
Skittles. Getting out of the car to see where he went (in response to the
police's inquiry) is no more illegal than Martin buying Skittles.Again, I mainly want to know what you think the appropriate response would
have been for Zimmerman after Martin attacked. Although you don't like to
hear it, Martin became the aggressor by jumping Zimmerman.
George Zimmerman doesn't have a racist bone in his body. He escorted a
black girl to the prom, mentored black children, and had blacks living in his
home. He is as Latino as Barack Obama is black.On the other hand,
Trayvon Martin had been expelled from school, had photos of guns on his phone,
and was high on drugs when he attacked George Zimmerman. How do we know?
Because his girlfriend Juantel said he was incensed that a homosexual pervert
was following him. Was Trayvon the one with bias and prejudice? You won't
hear the mainstream media (or Jesse Jackson) let us know these facts!
Generally I side with the defenders of the verdict. I think that Trayvon caused
his own death because of his illegal and violent actions. However, it is
undeniable that the vast majority of black people strenuously disagree with me.
Like it or not we live in the same country and we are all Americans. As Abraham
Lincoln famously stated "A house divided itself cannot stand". Unless we
want to witness the downfall of this country as we know it, we need to discuss
and understand how we could look at the same set of facts and reach such
radically different conclusions. What is causing this divide between us and how
do we bridge it?
@joe5"If someone observes there are more blacks in the criminal
justice system because they commit more crimes, nobody wants to evaluate whether
the evidence supports that theory."I know for drug use, studies
show whites use illegal drugs at the same rates as blacks but blacks have much
higher rates of being incarcerated for illegal drug use (since enforcement
varies from region to region, white neighborhoods don't get as much in the
manner of things like "stop and frisk" for instance).@BigAlAvenger"The race problem in this country is far less a white
problem than it is a black problem."You live in a town
that's like 95% white. Small wonder you don't see a problem when
minorities are practically non-existant.
Nothing wrong with the jury system. They acquitted on the letter of the law.
There was no case from the beginning. Only politics brought it to trial. Anyone
complaining that it's one sided, just keep yourselves out of court. Better
yet, clean up the mess in your homes.
@Riverton CougarThis is about much more than the case. It's about how
black people are treated with heightened suspicion even if they're doing
nothing more than walking home while talking on the phone and carrying
convenience store items. It's about how police target minority communities
with "stop and frisk". It's about how blacks and whites use illegal
drugs at the same rates but because of different enforcement matters blacks have
much higher incarceration rates. It's about rampant gun violence in our
cities.You know what? The jury got it right, but the discussion is
much bigger than this one case, and this is the sort of stuff that is why
Melissa Harris-Perry said she was actually glad when her ultrasound came back
that she'd have a daughter rather than a son, knowing the sorts of things
he'd likely have to face. This is why Eric Holder notes having that other
"talk" with sons about how to interact with police because of all those
cases of police brutality and heightened suspicion due to race. But
hey, we're white and live in Utah, so I guess we can just ignore it.
carman:Again, he was minding his own business, walking down the road
eating candy.A guy in an SUV, with a gun confronted a kid who was doing
nothing wrong. If the guy with the gun follows police instructions and
stays in his vehicle this whole episode goes away.As I said, the only
thing Trayvon was guilty of was bringing skittles to a gun fight.If
this happened to any of your kids would you agree that Zimmerman was an innocent
victim? I doubt any of you would.
Here's how I see the racial problem:If your skin is light
chances are you feel bad Trayvon died, but you feel he shares the blame for
attacking GZ. It is easy to see the right to self-defense as GZ has his nose
broken and head being slammed against the concrete.If your skin is
darker chances are you feel that GZ had no right to profile Trayvon, that he
should have stayed in the car, and that because he had a gun GZ is guilty of
murdering an unarmed young man.I feel bad for both the Martin and
Zimmerman families. I feel even worse for the nation where race strongly
controls our ability to reason and process information.
@EdGrady: "If I ever decide to shoot an unarmed teenager, I hope I get this
jury.No, no. Just take Vice President Joe Biden's advise:"If you want to protect yourself, get a double-barreled shot
gun," Biden said. "Jill, if there's ever a problem, just walk out
on the balcony here... put that double-barreled shotgun and fire two blasts
outside the house," the vice president added. "I promise you, whoever
is coming in is not gonna... you don't need an AR-15... Buy a shotgun. Buy
a shotgun."@Ernest T. Bass: "Trayvon was guilty of bringing
skittles to a gun fight."No. no. He brought a 'right
cross' and a cement sidewalk.@KG: "Was he racially
profiled by Mr. Zimmerman?"No. no. He was racially profiled by
the news media. They needed to sensationalize this incident to capitalize
monetarily. It seemed to work. They're no dummies. @ThornBirds: "GZ definitely was not the man his attorneys portrayed him
to be."Despite the lies you've posted about GZ, note that
all he did that night was legal... even pulling a trigger when being attacked.
@Ernest T. Bass:"Again, he was minding his own business, walking down
the road eating candy. A guy in an SUV, with a gun confronted a kid who was
doing nothing wrong."So, why did he punch the guy with the gun
in the kisser and bang his head on the cement sidewalk? He shoulda either ran
home or offered to share his candy."If the guy with the gun
follows police instructions and stays in his vehicle this whole episode goes
away."It wasn't the police. It was a 911 phone operator.
And he/she did not tell Zim to stay in the vehicle. He/she said "we
don't need you to do that." Then he/she asked Zim, "where is he
now." Which tells Zim to get out of the vehicle and find out."As I said, the only thing Trayvon was guilty of was bringing skittles to
a gun fight."And, as someone else posted, he brought a fist and
a cement sidewalk to the fight. Not too smart against a gun.
if only Trayvon Martin had had a gun....
@FT1/SS:"Nothing wrong with the jury system. They acquitted on the
letter of the law."The jury was all white. If the jury was all
black would the decision be the same? I doubt it, based on the reactions
we've seen. What does that say about our jury system?
I had a decent debate with a black man on facebook about this case, but
eventually he basically told me that it was okay for black Americans to be
racist because of their history. Another debate with a female, where she said
that it is flat out wrong to profile, and then stated that there is no way that
a "fat" grown man was being beat up by a 14 year old boy.Truth is everyone profiles in one form or another... it's called
judgement--the evaluation of evidence to make a decision. Sometimes we are
wrong or exercise poor judgement, but it is a necessary part of life.This problem is a serious issue that needs to be addressed, because if not,
things are going to escalate to a boiling point in this country, and large scale
violence will break out.I'm not just talking about the race
issue here, though that is a big part of it. I'm also talking about the
polarization that is taking place in which oposing sides hate each other.This country is in need of healing. The hate has to stop.Go
say something nice to someone you disagree with.
Booker T. Washington said this in 1911: "There is a class of colored people
who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of
the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a
living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of
advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it
pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because
they do not want to lose their jobs."
@Miss Piggy, both the prosecutor, and defense settle on the jury with no
complaints prior to the verdict. Complaints from nobody prior to the verdict
including the black community, the liberal media, the Martin family or their
atty's. They only did their howling when they did'nt get there way. An
all black jury would of voted Zimmerman guilty? You must think that a black jury
is not capable of following the letter of the law, and vote on race and emotion
only. My experience with black jurors was they were just as capable as following
the letter of the law as I was, and were just as strict as I was with a black
defendent. However, their is the occasional exception such as the OJ
juror's who partied with him after the verdict. Maybe your perception of a
black jury is based on that? Only the liberal media has made a mess of the
Zimmerman jury, the same media that thought the all woman jury would be good for
the Martin family and procecutors.
Understanding why African American men make up such a disproportionate
percentage of those who find themselves in the criminal justice system may not
be as big a mystery as some may think. I know saying this is not
politically-correct but... Is it possible that more of any group find themselves
in court because they are accused of more crimes? Now... why they
are accused of more crimes is another question. And while it could be a big
conspiracy to get the group in jail (just because you don't like them or
something), OR could it be that they are just in the wrong-place and the
wrong-time more often? Or... it's also possible that they involved in
more crimes?It may be a big invisible conspiracy to hurt the African
American community. I don't know for sure. I tend to subscribe to the
Occam's razor type logic, meaning "the simplest explanation is usually
the correct one".I'm sure there's some schism based on
racial bias in society or the justice system, but I wouldn't be surprised
if the Occam's razor explanation also explains at least some of this
The article said that violent protests broke out in Los Angeles and Oakland. A
protest in Houston, TX also turned violent. A grandmother was trying to rush
her grandchild to the hospital due to a severe allergic reaction, but her path
was blocked by the protest mob. When she rolled down her window to plead for
passage, a protester socked her in the face. Fortunately, she was only delayed
20 minutes and the child did not die.
@The Solution:"This problem is a serious issue that needs to be
addressed..."Tell that to the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al
Sharpton, who have been seen to escalating violent protests with racist
rhetoric. "This country is in need of healing. The hate has to
stop."I only hope it does not escalate into a civil war. But I
ain't holding my breath.@FT1/SS"... both the
prosecutor, and defense settle on the jury with no complaints prior to the
verdict."They made a mistake, then, didn't they?"An all black jury would of (sic) voted Zimmerman guilty?"Not with a black defendant."You must think that a black jury
is not capable of following the letter of the law"They pick
their evidence... and in some cases made it up. Just listen to what they
emphasize... profiling, gun toting, getting out of a vehicle, stalking, etc."Only the liberal media has made a mess of the Zimmerman
jury..."Not so. Look who's condemning the verdict. Look
who's rioting in the streets.
EdGrady and others morph a serious dialog into nonsensical, gratuitous insults.
Sad that there are people like that.
I was going to comment but then realized that "carman", "fed
up", and "joe" already expressed my views. I find it
interesting that people like "EdGrady" labelled Utahns racist for not
supposedly not seeing the injustice in the trial decision. He might consider
that people like him could possibly be ignorant of the facts that led to the
jury's decision.Calling me racist for agreeing with the verdict
is akin to calling me homophobic for disagreeing with gay marriage. Wrong
accusation in both cases, but these are the default accusations they resort to.
There would have been no controversy if the media were honest in their
reporting. The Main Stream Media twisted the facts and in one case, even
doctored a tape to promote a distorted narrative of the truth. People believe
that justice was not served because they were spoon fed false information by the
media.1. Prosecute the media for inciting a riot. The violence is
their fault.The police said that there was no case against
Zimmerman.The local prosecutors said there was no case against
Zimmerman.2. Disbar those who moved forward with this prosecution.
Zimmerman's rights have been seriously violated.If Zimmerman
set out to murder this young man, why did he call 911? Mighty strange behavior
for somebody planning to commit a crime.
@ WRZI think he was racially profiled. The report I read was that
there had been reports of burglaries in the area perpetrated by a young black
man. When GZ saw a young, black man, he profiled Martin, according to the
reports. That, IMO, is racial profiling. But, I don't have a problem with
that at all--he fit the description of the reports.
@Riverton Cougar"Let's attempt to have an honest
discussion..."That would be great, except you follow that
statement with a post full of speculation and lies. The same lies and
speculation are posted by many others as if they were facts, when they are far
from it. That's not honest discussion...it's merely backfilling your
existing opinions with more opinions.Example:"Trayvon
Martin jumped Zimmerman..."Nothing honest about that statement. The
only person claiming that Martin jumped Zimmerman is Zimmerman himself. Since
he was also the killer, his claims should be held suspect.Another
example:"...started to beat the tar out of him"Again,
nothing honest here. You have no idea whether Martin 'started'
anything. Only Zimmerman claims this. It is just as likely that Zimmerman
started things. There's no evidence to support/refute either argument.Yet another example:"...an irate teenager on drugs"Martin was not 'on drugs'. He had traces of THC in his system that
were determined to be no effect on his action according to the medical examiner.
In contrast, Zimmerman was taking Adderall, which has known side effects of
agitation and aggression.An honest discussion requires honesty. Try
Having served on a jury--a case involving the robbery of a drug
dealer(seriously, that was the case, two people on trial for robbing a drug
dealer)--I can honestly say I never want to repeat the experience again. Nor
would I want to be a witness or defendant. I agree with Mr. Evensen
that there are many problems in our society including the great disparity in our
educational system. Stereotypes persist. The truth is that there are more
young black men attending college than in prison. The majority of black murder
victims are murdered by blacks, but the same holds true for whites: Most whites
are murdered by whites. (where the race of both perpetrator and victim can be
determined). Prof. David Kennedy, director of the Center for Crime
Prevention and Control at NYC John Jay College of Criminal Justice: "Homicides overwhelmingly happen among people who know each other,"
there are relatively few absolutely straight-up stranger homicides. Homicide is
a phenomenon of social networks. ... Most peoples’ relationships are
primarily with someone of their own race or ethnicity. As long as anybody has
studied homicide, this has been the pattern."(politifact)
I listened to the testimony by Trayvon's friend, who was with him on the
phone as he was being followed by Zimmerman. Her testimony gave the impression
that Trayvon was trying to elude/avoid Zimmerman, not looking to attack
Zimmerman. Also, if someone were going to attack another person, wouldn't
that person end the phone conversation before doing so? Whatever happened,
according to the friend, it appears that Trayvon thought he had eluded
Zimmerman, told her he didn't need to run because he was close to home.
But then Zimmerman surprised him again, followed by Trayvon dropping the phone
and the sound of a scuffle. We only know Zimmerman's version
of how the "attack" started. We don't know Trayvon's version
except for the testimony provided by his friend. re:BrentbotThe term Trayvon used to describe Zimmerman is being totally mischaracterized,
misinterpreted and distorted by Limbaugh and others. Trayvon's friend
testified after he called Zimmerman that name she said "maybe he's a
rapist," and Trayvon responded "nah, stop playing with me like
that." So Trayvon was dismissing the idea that Zimmerman was a homosexual
Give me a break..... really. This case is an exception... and there will always
be those. We had OJ Simpson and the glove didn't fit. Then, recently we
had the young lady in Florida who just about everyone who has a brain could
figure out that her daughters disappearance\death was some how attributed to her
- and yet was found not guilty. These things happen. These are not
indications of a complete systematic failure of the judicial system. This was a total tragedy for all involved. Mr. Martins parents have been
dealing with this issue with class and grace - why can't everyone else?
Something we need to come to grips with... We all have racial biases (not just
Utahns). And even Al Sharpton, and even the protesters. And even the Pope.
Literally every human being has some bias regarding everything, and even some
bias concerning race. It's literally impossible to go through life without
forming a single opinion or bias regarding basically everything. It's not a matter of...are you racist or not. We are literally all racist
(just the degree varies). We all have experiences and they form our biases.
The experiences this week contributing to them.People are forming
their biases every day. From observing what happened in Florida. From observing
the trial. From observing different people's reaction to the verdict. To
how people choose to express their displeasure with the outcome, how people
treat you, and how people react to any given situation. It's impossible be
a sentient being and not form biases.The important thing is being
open minded enough to change your bias when you observe something that should
change your current biases.Are the protesters willing to correct
their biases? Are Utahns able to correct theirs? Some are.
Juries get all the book and media deals they need. Who needs respect?
What's interesting is what you can't say on this thread. You
can't say, "follow the money" when racism is being discussed. You
can't name names. You can't ask what would happen if that named
individual encourged blacks to get an education, to get a job, to stay off
drugs, to stay out of gangs. You can't use Bill Cosby's name as a
prime example of someone who didn't listen to rants and rages.The jury system works. Yes, jurors are underpaid. They should be paid an
honest wage for judging one of their peers. The judge is paid. The lawyers are
paid. The reporters are paid. The jury should be respected enough to pay them
an honest wage for their time. Duty does not mean absence of payment. Read the
Consitution. Read the provisions in the Constitution that stipulate that those
who serve the public are to be paid.People who have a political
agenda use race as an issue whenever they can. They don't tell us how many
whites or latinos were killed. They don't tells us about the deaths of
innocent children. Why not?
silo,We may not know exactly how everything happened, but based on
the evidence presented, even by Martin's girlfriend, Zimmerman's story
was seen to be the most credible and correct story.
Why haven't we seen any opinion polls about the attitude of the citizens in
the country about the verdict? Is it because the majority of Americans agree
with the decision and it just wouldn't make good print to hear that most
Americans are just fine with the verdict and the jury system?
"Although you don't like to hear it, Martin became the aggressor by
jumping Zimmerman""Trayvon caused his own death because of
his illegal and violent actions. ""Despite the lies
you've posted about GZ, note that all he did that night was legal... even
pulling a trigger when being attacked."None of you have any
evidence to back up these claims. All you have is George Zimmerman claiming this
is what happened. You have the killer stating this. And not even under oath. Treyvon had just as much right as anyone else's to defend himself
that night. He did not have to run home; he had a legal right in Florida to
stand his ground, just as much as anyone else. If he felt his life
was threatened or he was at risk of great bodily harm, Treyvon had every right
to defend himself. And as the defense attorney said: he did not need to be
injured at all, "not even a cut on his finger."Treyvon had
every right to avail himself of the law against a man that was pursuing him,
after he ran away.
mark,Again, Although we don't know exactly what happened, the
testimonies strongly suggest that Zimmerman was telling the truth. Even the
testimonies that the prosecution brought forward helped Zimmerman's case.
In any case, people have failed to find evidence that suggests Zimmerman
targeted Martin; Zimmerman's story is the most credible story based on the
testimonies given. That is why people knew they couldn't convict him, and
that is why the jury knew they couldn't convict him.
You are absolutely wrong, Riverton Couger, there was testimony that directly
contradicted Zimmerman's account of what happened that night. And the only
testimony that was presented of the actual moment of contact between Trayvon and
Zimmerman (the girl that was on the phone with Trayvon) did not support
Zimmerman's account. Zimmerman claimed Trayvon hit him with no warning, the
girl on the phone says otherwise.But it doesn't matter. Again,
Trayvon had a right, under Florida law, to defend himself. He did not have to
retreat (although he had a number of times) and he did not have to be injured or
physically assaulted first, he just had to have a reasonable fear of bodily harm
or death. And there is no question, no doubt, that Trayvon would
have had a reasonable fear for his life that night (leave aside the fact that he
was killed) he had an adult pursuing him through the dark that night even after
he ran away from him.Any reasonable person would have felt fear of
death or physical harm that night in Trayvon's shoes. Because of that
Trayvon had every right to use self defense.
You are being followed by a stranger with a gun.... race doesn't
matter..... and the fact that you defend your self against this person.... makes
you the aggressor. Would any parent of a child who was being
followed by a stranger with a gun - could be a white dude following your white
son - would any of you not find that disturbing? You can actually
say that if You were being followed through your own neighborhood, by a stranger
with a gun, you wouldn't have issues with that? I am lost at
how people are casting the victim here as the problem.... blows me away.
EdGradyby definition: race baiters call people racist (because that's
what they are themselves)
The Cost of Political ProsecutionsIn concealed carry class we are
taught, if it becomes necessary to shoot a person .. 911 should be called. Since
Florida showed that political prosecutions are a very real possibility, I
envision in the future that there will be people who if they have to shoot
someone to protect themself or another person, will not call 911 but simply
disappear. The cost of having to deal with the legal system is too great and too
The way white journalists and bloggers apply anti-African-American stereotypes
to the Trayvon Martin case would be amusing if it were not tragic. Trayvon
Martin's father, Tracy, was very involved with his son, sharing custody and
often having the youth stay at his home. Yet, the writer, predictably, claims
Trayvon lacked a father. Nor is it acknowledged that Martin came from a
middle-class family, with two successful parents. Or that he was a college
track student, engaged in activities such as football, horseback riding,
learning to fly a plane and babysitting his toddler nieces. Admittedly, a
campaign of slander against the Martins has tried to misled the public, but
basic reading in mainstream media would have provided all of this information.
The family that has deep problems is the Zimmermans. The members
were not even on speaking terms until George Zimmerman was charged. His
criminal record, and allegations he molested a young cousin, which have been
widely reported in mainstream media, led to breaches in the family that have
lasted years. The notion that the black family, the Martins, is the one that
should be criticized in this situation is silly.
There is another glaring problem with this piece. The writer avoids the key
issue that needs addressing: Why can't a black victim get equal justice in
the American criminal justice system? Part of the reason for this is Jay Evensen
treats George Zimmerman, not Trayvon Martin, as the victim in Florida vs.
Zimmerman. The grown man was the defendant, not the youth. The adult weighed
60-70 pounds more than the boy, had trained in Mixed Martial Arts three times a
week and was armed with a loaded 9mm handgun. He was the threatening figure,
not a tall, skinny unarmed teenager. Like the jurors, Evensen is
incapable of seeing Trayvon Martin as a person. Instead, he perceives the boy
as somehow inherently threatening and at fault for his own death. The white
jury that heard the case have the same problem, as have white juries hearing the
cases of black victims for centuries. What we really learned from Juror B-37
is that she never saw Martin as a victim, or even a person. This is why the
jury system failed Trayvon Martin.
Interloper: Nothing you said would have changed the verdict. Even if I agreed
with everything you said, my question to your comments is: So What?
If Zimmerman were convicted and sent to prison no one would be asking for a
discussion of anything. How sad is that.