Why does the article assume that the McDonalds employee is the one with the
second job, and not a spouse or family member? Both my wife and I work. Can fault McDonalds for being realistic about a minimum wage job.
You're not going to live a very comfortable life on just $8 an hour.
Some jobs are not meant to be livable wage jobs just stepping stones or as 2nd
jobs. Where is the balance of a livable wage and cost of product? Back when
McDonalds first came to my home town it was for first time employment, for high
school students or college students, to learn a work ethic and only a stepping
stone for the future.
College can fix this.
@ AggieloveTrue... assuming you get the right degree. Get a degree
in communications, history, or any other field that has way too many graduates
for the # of jobs available and you can... Work one job at McDonalds while
moonlighting in your major on a contract basis. Many do this.
Similarly, the typical Walmart costs each state within which it's located
an addition $900k per year in food stamps and other publicly funded assistance
because Walmart wages and (lack of) benefits pretty much guarantee living in
poverty.Are we really going to endorse an economy that maintains the
position that, "Yes, this is a full-time job, but no one actually expects
you to be able to live on what you earn here?"
Tee Hee! The picture is eight years old! Is that the most recent McDonalds
picture you could find?
An additional problem is that with Obamacare taking effect, businesses are
cutting employee hours to under 30 hours to escape having to provide health
insurance. Instead of two full time jobs the person will need three or four
part-time jobs. McDonalds, Burger King, and Wendy's should come up with a
common uniform so the employee does not have to change uniforms between jobs.
Remember that a person isn't assigned a job. They seek employment. Seems
like those that work at McDonald's made that choice and are happy to have a
job. Seems like those complaining don't work there and are trouble makers,
To be truthful I never envisioned working at McDonald's as something more
than a job people did in high school or working for college. The bigger problem
might be that these ARE about the only jobs out there to raise a family for
those who lost their other job.
Saw a wonderful documentary, on cnbc i think, about a minority gentleman who
worked his way up from cooking fries at McDonalds, to being a cashier, to being
assistant manager, to being a manager, to saving up enough to buy his own
mcdonalds franchise. I'm not sure he was the most college educated
gentleman, but he had enough smarts to know that it takes hard work, ambition,
savings (delayed gratification) to get ahead. McDonalds, Walmart, pretty
much any company in America are all wonderful opportunities that give those that
are smart(or wise), hard workers, ambitious a chance to do whatever they
want...if they want to continue to work minimum wage, they are certainly free to
do so. If they want opportunities to better yourself and advance, there are
always many and endless ways to do it. You are free! Do something with that
freedom! Don't take it for granted and don't waste your opportunities!
people with kids shouldn't be working minimum wage jobs and people with
minimum wage jobs shouldn't be having kids.
McD's is assuming they live in an apt/house with another minimum wage
earner. Do we really expect our economy to provide its least
skilled, least educated, least productive workers housing where they can live
alone??? I missed that part of the Constitution where it says we'll
provide an economy where you are entitled to live by yourself.Minimum wage jobs are designed to be temporary. We should never allow the
media to spin it any other way.
Wow, easy for you to say, james d. morrison. What if it's the only job you
can get in this economy?
what Aggielove meant to say is that the RIGHT college/univrsity with the RGHT
degree can fix this. Yes the more education you have (up to a point) will
always help you land a better job, statistics on this subject don't lie.
Also, don't discount technical institutions, the biggest demand for jobs
has been favoring the technical schools. Also when getting a degree, although
much more difficult, go for the degree in an applied science, you can't go
wrong, and your chances of landing a good job are much better in the long run.
The cost of living has nothing to do with wages paid. When I buy anything I do a
cost value analysis. If the value is in line with the cost and I can afford it
and either want the item or need the item, then I buy it. If the value is far
lower than the cost, I walk away.Employers do the same thing.
Unskilled labor is only worth so much. Market forces also play a part. Illegal
aliens have bloated the supply of unskilled labor. An over supply results in low
wages.If people on minimum wage want something better maybe they
should get some skills and or some education. If people don't want to end
up supporting a family on minimum wage maybe they should actually study in high
school and get some marketable skills.When I worked for minimum wage
I lived at home with my parents. The money was great!
This story went national about two days ago. How about some current events?
Without McDonalds, hundreds of thousands more would be completely unemployed and
therefore completely reliant on the dole. Thank goodness for people in this
world who take risks, start businesses that are PROFITABLE so they can continue
to attract investors and expand and hire more people. Leave charity to
charitable organizations. Leave business decisions, like wages, to the business
pros. McDonalds did not become a multi-billion dollar multi-national that
employs hundreds of thousands of people by listening to whiny bleeding hearts.
I worked at McDonalds as a teenager, starting out at minimum wage. Except for
management, it's not a job you should count on as being your lifetime full
time job. And if you're even a swing manager, you make much better than
minimum wage. I went on to get a PhD, as did my buddy who also worked at
McD's. It was a great job, but no one should plan on it being a terminal
profession, while earning minimum wage.
So I don't see anything newsy about this article..many people who
don't even work at McDonalds need to have at least a full time job and a
part time job or both parents working in order to pay mortgage on a humble house
and keep food on the table in today's economy.
Entry level jobs that require no skills are not supposed to be able to support
anybody. The very thought is ridiculous. These jobs give young people work
experience and give them a few bucks while they gain the education and skills to
get jobs that will pay.
This country was founded upon the American dream, the basis that you can do what
you would like to do. I think the commenters on this board need to be more
sensitive to the fact that there are lots of good hard-working people at
McDonald's and other places that work just as hard for $8 an hour as anyone
else does. There is no reason for someone to be ashamed of the work
they do or the money they make, be it McDonald's or whatever--whether they
make $1,000 per month or $10,000 per month. The purpose is if that person finds
fulfillment and purpose in their work, takes pride in it, and displays a work
ethic. Stop with the complaining about how you wish things should
be better. You ought to be grateful for how good you have it. If you doubt
that, try living where some of these people immigrated from sometime or talking
to them about what it was really like. Then maybe you'll understand a
"When large companies make profits by paying their workers unlivable wages,
we end up subsidizing their bottom lines." Which is why large companies are
spending millions lobbying for more immigration to keep ages low. There is a
massive amount of money to be made by agriculture, hospitality industry,
education, tech industry, et al, with costs externalized and borne by the middle
class. That is why over a billion is spent on lobbying.See "Our
Massively One-Sided Immigration Debate" by John Carney @ CNBC.com (3/26)See "Untangling the webs of immigration lobbying" by Lee Drutman and
Alexander Furnas at The Sunlight Foundation (3/25)
See "Robots Are Starting To Take Over Fast Food Jobs" by Dan Fastenberg.
So, why are we importing cheap labor subsidized by struggling taxpayers?
When I see "Think Progress" I think progress toward Markism. Karl was a
VERY unhappy person who could not manage money - supported by his mother most of
his life. His writings pull at the heart strings of most people who take his
critisms of the culture he lived in as truth. Free markets, including McDonalds,
don't use indentured slaves. Employees work there by choice and are free to
work elsewhere for higher pay. This article seems to be lacking in gratitude for
the many opportunities McDonalds gives to high school students to get an entry
level job and gain experience doing work with expectations (demands) for both
quality and timeliness. I know Deseret News can do better than this.
"There are programs like food stamps, Medicaid and the earned income tax
credit to help them along,"---Welfare Queens in the
College won't guarantee a good paying job. I have a degree in Computer
Science and an excellent career in the field; yet over the last decade I've
seen more and more good IT jobs being offshored to India and other countries.The Rock says that "unskilled labor is only worth so much"; and
fails to take into account that were it not for these "unskilled
laborers" the company wouldn't be able to produce their widgets. The
"makers" in this case ARE the "unskilled laborers".
Much ado about nothing, as Shakespeare put it. All this McDonald two-job fluff
is a diversion from the real problem which is real jobs. President Obama
personally nixed much job creation and the major one coming to mind is his
blocking of the already approved Keystone XL Pipeline that cumulatively would
add two million good-paying, tax-paying jobs, reducing substantially the two-job
necessity to support a family. There are many more instances, raising the
serious question of "Why the deliberate hurt to the real 15% unemployed
though that figure might be double in the minority community. Where is the
"It is essential that we comprehend the distinction between real money and
paper money substitute. One cannot get rich by accumulating money substitutes,
one can only get deeper into debt. We the People no longer have any
"money." Most Americans have not been paid any "money" for a
very long time, perhaps not in their entire life. Now do you comprehend why you
feel broke? Now, do you understand why you are "bankrupt," along with
the rest of the country?" (United States Congressional Record, March
17, 1993 Vol. 33, page H-1303Speaker-Rep. James Traficant, Jr. (Ohio)
addressing the House:)
It is not WalMart's or McDonald's responsibility to pay a
"living" wage. They pay the market value for the work their workers
provide (actually they likely pay well above what workers are worth -
that's why the workers are willing to take these jobs - they often
don't have better alternatives).The only way to make a living
wage is to provide goods and services that the market is willing to pay more
for. In most cases this takes some type of specialized skills which requires
education, training and experience. And gaining education, training and
experience usually requires sacrifice and a lot of hard work, but they can be
attained. We went without furniture, lived in basement apartments, put in
12-15+ hours per day for years to gain the education and experience necessary to
make a reasonable living. It was difficult, but worth it.I
can't imagine my grandfather or father letting themselves think that it was
some corporation's responsibility to pay them a "living wage".
They both put their pants on, sacrificed, and went to work gaining the skills
they needed. Then they worked hard to keep these skills up-to-date.
@Aggielove: Not automatically, many unemployed or underemployed college grads
would argue that your statement in nothing more than a myth. The reality of the
working world has changed dramatically in the last 20 years or so.
All things remaining equal for every person that"applies themself" there
will be one person who is demoted or in the best case s enario experiences a
reduction income due to increased supply. LBJ thought the economic pie could be
expanded to accomodate the poor, middle, and upper classes but without any major
changes in our current technology all that would happen would be a
redistribution of wealth not the creation of new wealth.This trend
has occurred internationally as well. While the U.S. has declined ecnomically
other developing countries have risen - redistributing the wealth not creating
new wealth. We often lecture developing countries that if they work harder then
they can be successful like us but what nobody has said is that their economic
expantion will decrease ours or another's wealth.Let's not
patronize the poor with a falsehood just to make ouselves feel better. There are
individual exceptions to be sure, but national and international economics
currently dictate that there are limited resourses and the distribution of said
resoures is stratified.
It would be nice for everyone to make a "living wage." However, there
is always a trade-off. Give a 50% raise and what happens1) The owner
would make no money and there would not be McDonalds. If the owner makes
$125,000 and has to give a $4/hr raise to all 20 employees, his or her income
just dropped to $45,000 a year. No one in their right mind would take the risk
of opening a restaurant to make $45,000 a year.2) The price of a
burger would go up substantially. How many of us would cut back on eating out
if the price rose 50%. Even if you spent the same each month, you would eat out
1/3 less often. As the number of people eating out goes down - there is less
need to restaurant workers - leading to layoffs, and/or 3) the owner
would invest in new technology to make operations more efficient - leading to
layoffs. How many ditch diggers do you know? We have lost millions of
manufacturing jobs because it is cheaper to buy a machine than pay someone
$15.00/hr to turn a bolt.
I don't know anyone who can support a family on 35 hrs per week.
Especially at a fast food place. People are just too lazy these days. I work
70 hrs a week at three different jobs to support my family of four. two of
which are part time. People need to quit complaining and do what needs to be
done to be self sufficient.
RBB, Don't you know that for the anti-capitalism crowd, there is no such
thing as 'unintended consequences'? Just pay everyone a 'living
wage' no matter how much value they bring to your company, otherwise you
are just exploiting your workers. It doesn't matter where the money comes
from. Everyone knows that every business owner has a swimming pool full of cash
that they are just hoarding and unwilling to share with their endentured
servants called employees. We need to demand that every worker gets a living
wage no matter how low their skills or uneducated they may be.Use
the same logic when you talk about taxes and Obamacare. Money to pay for things
comes magically out of thin air. Just raise taxes or provide free health
insurance, there will not be any negative effects. Right?
BlueSalt Lake City, UT"Similarly, the typical Walmart costs each
state within which it's located an addition $900k per year in food stamps
and other publicly funded assistance because Walmart wages and (lack of)
benefits pretty much guarantee living in poverty."And, of
course, without the Walmart jobs they would be making how much? Which would cost
each state how much in unemployment? Food stamps? etc?
Each month the jobs report keeps showing us that the economy is getting
stronger. What is missing from that report is in whose eyes the economy is
being strengthened. The report fails to show that many of those newly created
jobs are minimum wage and/or part time jobs that do not, on their own, provide a
living for those who are fortunate enough to find them.I appreciate
this article because I too had not considered that as these corporations add
jobs to the job market, many of those same companies are also costing tax payers
a considerable amount to cover social service costs to bolster families who
cannot make it on what their jobs are paying them. And fine, perhaps jobs at
McDonalds and so forth are intended for students just entering the work force,
but in this depressed economy, the ones needing the jobs are families more so
than high school students.
Why do people assume that McDonalds is an appropriate career choice for an adult
and that it should provide somebody with a professional wage? I know some
adults work there, but for the most part McDonalds is a part-time job for high
school or college kids and nobody should expect to buy a house and two cars on a
Would-you-like-fries-with-that? skill set.
It’s the economy, stupid! A lot of you people are complaining about
minimum wage jobs, but the real problem is that the economy is not producing
good jobs. Look at the books of large corporations and you will see a lot cash
parked overseas, protected from the USA's terrible business tax. Why do we
even tax "businesses"? They are just owned by individuals who have to
pay tax on the profits distributed by the business. So, the numbers are; Fed
corp. tax rate of 36%, Fed individual tax rate of 28%, state rate of 6%. That
is 70% of business income that is taxed. THIS IS STUPID!!!!!! And we are the
only country in the world where are legislators can't see this????? No
wonder companies don’t pay dividends with their cash. The feds are
not entitled to our money!!!! If businesses were not punished for making money
they would be more likely to expand. Can you say “jobs”?
I worked several jobs that started at minimum wage for 18 years. In the
meantime, I got decent grades in school and then went to college. I don't
make minimum wage anymore. No one deserves $15 per hour to put together big
Mac's and stuff fries in a box. If you don't think minimum wage is
fair, pay someone $100 to mow your lawn.
This article and some of the comments highlights the sorry state of education
and economic illiteracy in this country. It is basic economics that wages are
based on supply and demand. The supply of people qualified to do the work at
McDonalds includes about every able-bodied person above the age of 14. Since
the supply is so high, the wages will be low.Liberals can try to
distort that basic fact and attempt to raise these wages through laws and
regulations but that will have many unintended consequences such as reducing the
number of these types of jobs available, removing a career stepping stone for
many teenagers and college students, as well as removing incentives to better
one's economic position through training and education.
You mean to tell me that a job where high school aged kids (with absolutely no
marketable skills) more than qualify isn't going to make me rich?
Seriously. McDonald's has never been a living wage for families. Why is the
DN feigning surprise here. More trying to vilify the wealthy?
Oh great! We subsidize McD's wages with our tax dollars. I'm just glad I can't eat their food anymore or I would have to
boycott them. This is becoming the budgeting move of choice for so many
businesses. Top people get millions and the workers are forced to ask for help
and are subsidized by us the American tax payer. Then the GOP calls
them “Takers How far do the American workers have to fall
before politicians remember how America got rich and strong. It wasn't by
the big guys getting millions or politicians who leave early on Thursdays and
don't work on Fridays at all, or the people who actually do the work having
to live on food stamps.
If you step back and take a deep breath you will see that this is a Progressive
straw man argument. The remedy is to pay everyone a living wage. Except for the
talking heads at these think tanks, everyone else should make the same money.
If the McDonalds CEO is limited to...say $50K a year...then the rest of his
package goes to all the frycooks, distributed evenly, of course.No fair
rewarding the better workers; it's all about equal pay.And the
government either makes sure that happens OR takes over the industry
altogether.That's the Progressive solution. It's the Occupy
solution.Now, we are not a free market; we are already a hybrid. And
Obamacare is another big step towards the Occupy utopia.But in order to do
what these critics are suggesting we must undo the very economic model America
was built upon.
I would bet that most of the people complaining about the wages at McDonalds
probably own stock in the company or will be eating lunch during the week at
McDonalds because it is cheap and convenient. You can't have cheap food on
expensive wages. I know it seems cold to say. If the people who
work at these types of places don't like it, change your work skills. I
don't always like my job and sometimes I feel like they take advantage of
me. I have choices, change jobs or accept it. Life s rough accept it make the
best of it and keep going forward.
I don't understand the mentality that says, "Some people don't
deserve a living wage." Is that what Jesus would say? He did say, "Treat
others the same way you want them to treat you." Would you like to be paid
the bare minimum your employer can get away with? Is that how you would like
others to treat you? Instead of earning a modest profit, and paying his
employees well, is it more in the spirit of Jesus's words for an employer
to maximize profits, and pay his employees poorly, or even fire them all
together for the sake of the biggest possible bottom line? Is that how the
employer would like to be treated if he was in the employee's place?If a restaurant owner can only make $45,000 dollars a year, he has no
incentive to open a restaurant? What incentive to work, then, does an employee
have, who makes a mere $10,000 or $12,000 a year? Hunger?Do you ever
stop to consider that people in minimum wage jobs are doing the best they can?
And yet they still don't deserve to earn enough to live?
It seems that the Deseret News isn't as much about news as it is about
shaping public opinion.I miss the old Deseret News.
Sadly Aggielove, the GOP has made even that option unattainable. It took my
daughter over 20 years to pay back her loans. She came out of college in the
depth of the layoff feeding frenzy and it then took 25 years for her to find a
job that used her business skills, and she has a Masters in International
business and speaks several languages. They found less qualified people who
would have cost them less.
Add another business subsidy to the budget ax.
I have to chuckle over this one. Times do change, cost of living really has
risen. My first job at the age of 16 working in at a Soda Founting was .25,
that is right it took me 4 hours to make 1.00. Years later I had what was
considered a "good Job" as a Secretary making 50.00 a week, helping
support 4 children. i realize that cost of livinig has made a terrible jump
since world warII, but I still live in a very nice 4 Bedroom Home, we drive two
cars, own a travel trailer, and have no debt. Guess some of us were just able
to manage what we had back in those days. Wish my Grandkids could have the same
blessings of living within their means. When I see families that are 0n
welfare, with each member having a Lap computer, I can't help but wonder
what has happened to our value system
I think with all the money the top executives pocket each year, they certainly
can and should afford a better paid wage to all employees. The service at
McDonald's is terrible and the employees are always grumpy. I saw an
employee almost stab somebody with a concealed blade right by my hotel in
Chicago.They should invest in better people, and pay them for it.
James D, Morrison, has it occurred to you that people with kids lose their jobs,
have a family illness or disability or death, or get divorced? Has it occurred
to you that in many towns Walmart or McDonalds may be the only viable option due
to there not being other work or inability to get to other work? Has it
occurred to you that such people may have to stay in such a town due to a house
that won't sell or kids in high school, or the need to have family support?
Has it occurred to you that women who have spent most of their lives putting
their children's and husband's needs first may not have the skills
(even if they have gone to college)to find other work when a emergency turns
their life upside down?Low paying employers not only cost the government money,
they make their money off the backs of the sick, uneducated, the widows, orphans
and others down on their luck. Those people work-the stockholders sit and watch
their money grow.
@Kramer: "Seems like those that work at McDonald's made that choice and
are happy to have a job."It must be wonderful to live in a place
where there are more jobs than workers and where everyone has the job he chose
out of many available. For the rest of us, the job we have is often the only
one we could find in an oversaturated and competitive market, competing against
dozens of other similarly overqualified applicants who simply need to pay the
bills and put food on the table. Companies like McDonalds might effectively be
arguing that their jobs are just for teenagers and losers, but they're
ignoring the reality that when there are more workers than jobs, a lot of people
end up with jobs far below their training and abilities, and they struggle to
survive on the pittance paid to them. And those who've lost their jobs and
have to latch on to one of these jobs to feed a family don't have the
option of deleting the family and starting over. They end up with two or three
jobs to pay the bills.
@Albert Masler"that cumulatively would add two million good-paying,
tax-paying jobs,"That is incredibly false. At the most it would
make around 10,000 jobs and a lot of them would be temporary in the form of
building the pipeline.
Put another way, McDonalds isn't so much being subsidized by the rest of us
paying for the government benefits its low-wage employees use. Rather,
*because* of what money a McDonalds worker *does* earn, he needs that much less
in public benefits.The pay isn't great, but it's better
than nothing. And "nothing" is the real alternative here. McDonalds pays enough to attract enough workers to enable it to make money.
When the marginal cost of hiring another worker exceeds the marginal revenue
that can be generated with the help of that worker, McDonalds stops hiring.
This is Econ 110. If the pay were higher, it would not make sense for McDonalds
to hire as many people.Every $1,000 earned by a McDonalds worker is
$1,000 that the public sector isn't pressured to spend on welfare benefits.
So here's the formula. Company pays employees low wages, so low that they
qualify for food stamps and other types of assistance. They get called lazy
moochers even though they're working. Here's one other
issue though... a lot of people need two jobs to get by. If they only needed one
instead then that frees up a job for someone else (and counteracts the reduced
jobs issue some of you raise).
"Similarly, the typical Walmart costs each state within which it's
located an addition $900k per year in food stamps and other publicly funded
assistance because Walmart wages and (lack of) benefits pretty much guarantee
living in poverty."Nothing could be further from the truth.
Firstly, the typical Wal-Mart saves shoppers millions and millions of dollars a
year in reduced costs of items purchased there. I personally save a few hundred
dollars a year. And this savings is not invested outside the community.
It's all spent on food, fuel, car repairs, soccer club, etc, elsewhere in
town.Secondly, no one with a good job and not on food stamps takes a
Wal-Mart job. People who take Wal-Mart jobs are already on food stamps and
without jobs, or with temporary jobs. Do you really think someone making
$40,000 says, "Well, I'm not on food stamps, but I could be, if I quit
my job and started working at Wal-Mart"?
To "Larceny" you should do the math. Quite often if you took the
salaries of the CEO at a big company and spread that money around to all of the
employees, it would amount to less than 10 cents per hour.For
example, Ford paid its top CEO 22 million last year. Now if you took all of
that money and gave it to all 164,000 employees, that would amount to $128 per
year. Not really that much. That is a whopping 6.4 cents per hour. Now, you
lose the expertise of the CEO who won't work for nothing, and risk driving
the company into the ground.
James, the problem is that sometimes people who have good jobs lose those jobs
and they already have kids. If You Cant Feed Your Baby (Yeah, Yeah)Then Don't Have A Baby (Yeah, Yeah)And Don't Think Maybe
(Yeah, Yeah)If You Can't Feed Your Baby (Yeah, Yeah)Even
so, you have to ask yourself how much good it does to say how things should be
when there are hungry children who aren't being cared for. Lamenting on
how things should be doesn't put food in their stomachs.
@Redshirt "That is a whopping 6.4 cents per hour. " That my friend, is
a lot to somebody in my bracket.
75% of people with minimum wage jobs are young teens/college students who live
at home. If people are trying to raise families on minimum wage jobs, there are
better ways to address that issue. Increasing minimum wage will mainly help
kids just looking for some extra spending cash.
Agree with CP, you'd have to be pretty stupid not to understand this basic
economic concept and before the river of tears gets too wide for these poor
workers, show me who's holding a gun to these employee's heads and
forcing them to work there?
This is a stepping stone type job. I worked at KFC and put myself through a 4
year private university and earned a degree. My husband makes a six figure
income but started work at a gas station pumping gas back in the days before
self service pumps. All my 7 siblings and my husbands 7 siblings started small
like this in a job that doesn't require education or much skill. He has a
brother who is nearly 40 and mentally disabled who works a fast food job. The
reason these jobs don't pay much is because they don't require any
special skill or education. In all the fast food jobs I had they all had
opportunities to move up into management through training and education. My
husband tried to hire a computer programmer several years back for $80,000 a
year. He was also looking for a shipping clerk at a bit above minimum wage. He
had a line out the door for the shipping clerk but it took him several weeks to
get a programmer. Education and training are the key. You have to work your way
into a good job.
I am still tyring to figure out who forced these people to work at McDonalds.
Can the liberals tell us who is forcing these people who are tryng to support
families to work for minimum wage?I think the problem isn't
that McDonalds is using welfare programs to keep their wages low. If adults
were not working there, teenagers who don't need anything more than
spending money would be working there. The problem lies in the unskilled
laborers who don't have any job skills and don't seek to gain any
specialized job skills that are using the welfare system.Think back
20 years ago to the typical McDonalds worker. They were typically teenagers or
maybe unmarried college students. Now, we have mothers who figure that they can
work at McDonalds to support a family because the government will cover any
expenses they can't earn for themselves.Can the liberals
explain why this is the fault of businesses for paying minimum wage, when it is
the employees use welfare so that they don't have to develop any skills.
It is just like BY said, the ways of the world (Capitalism) tend to sink the
masses into poverty and degradation while exalting the few to unfathomable
wealth. Witness McDonalds and Walmart.
Fast Food restaurants are not career job providers. They are supposed to be low
paying... in fact, whatever the market for the area can bear. There
shouldn't even be a Minimum Wage! It is a Communist tactic to redistribute
income. It is very counter productive and should be banned throughout the entire
USA. The reason so many jobs have been driven overseas is because of stupid and
stifling government restrictions that are destroying our economy and our nation!
When are people going to wise up?!
To "Nosea" the irony of that statement is that it isn't capitalism
that does that. It is communism and socialism that sink the masses into poverty
and degradation while only a few have massive wealth.Look at the
graph in "The Haves and the Have-Nots" in the NY Times. The flatter the
line, the more equal the distribution of income. Do you notice that the
socialist leaning nations and communist nation have GREATER income inequality
than the US does with capitalism?IMO Brigham Young was warning about
the coming socialism and the destruction that it causes.
Really? You are really trying to make that point when you are dealing with a
chart with four nations, USA, China, Brazil, and India? The chart is
trying to show wealth inequality around the world third world countries compared
to first world countries. And I imagine if you break out the top twenty percent
on the USA line that line is much more uneven. If the chart is
comparing "socialist leaning" countries vs capitalist where is Canada or
Germany or Holland, or any other first world country with "socialist
leanings"? But of course, even the USA leans socialist, or actually tilts
heavily socialist, So each of the four countries on the chart has
A point often over looked is that if we really think that by forcing Walmart to
pay their employees more that they wont charge more for their products, then
after while, the Walmart employees, wont be able to shop at Walmart. Likewise,
forcing McDonald's to pay more will cause the same escalation. There is a
simple solution here, like in China, we take public ownership of every industry
where there is a pay disparity or where any cost due to Labor impacts a core
commodity. On one hand we want a hands off government, while simultaneously
wanting the government to protect us. Unless the Government wears blue tights
and a red cape and will save us for free, there is no simple solution!
Oh, something else about that chart, it determines income using all income,
including government income. In other words if someone gets a housing subsidy
that is included. Therefore a reason the USA line would be flatter is because of
the socialist programs in this country, the redistribution programs.
A great realistic article that works. I am presently out of the job market
because of age an health but live on a budget of $2000.00 a month.All of my life
except when self-employed I had a 2nd job. I never took food stamps, ADC,
Medicaid, WIC or any of the state or federal welfare programs. In my old age I
have taken some medical help from the Veterans Clinic earned by my service
during the Korean Conflict.We need to learn the lesson of what is needs
and wants.I presently have an employment application with Costco and a few
other stores who can use awheel-chair greeter or other work that can be
done setting down. Twelve or fifteen hrs. a week job at minimum wage would help
with some of my wants.I feel very blessed to have live in this great
country where opportunities abound for those who will work for it.
Redshirt1701:BY was referring to his mission to England in 1840, and
the appalling conditions that existed well into the Industrial Revolution there
(Capitalist taking it all and labor very much in distress). That, if anything,
was the birth of Capitalism, not Socialism. Just read some of the letters BY
sent to JS in Nauvoo to see how disgusted BY was with the Capitalism of the
Why don't they stop making excuses and start paying a wage that at least
raises their people to the poverty line? Remember, folks, the minimum wage is
not worth what it was 30-50 years ago.
To "mark" yes, really. I found a graph of income inequality, and yes,
Germany showed a steeper slope on its distribution. The steeper the slope, the
more inequal the distribution. So yes, Germany has greater income inequality.
The same can be said about Spain.The US is tilting more socialist
every year. Most people don't recognize it because it is being done
through fascism.To "Nosea" please provide the source for
that quote. I cannot find in anywhere. The only things I could find were
quotes about greed.
Redshirt:Since I sense that you are more interested in arguing your
preconceived notions instead of ascertaining truth, I will not bother looking up
all the sources I use -- the quote itself comes from JD, if you really want to
find it. I will just say further, that BY was 100% behind getting all he could
over from England, hence the Perpetual Emigration Fund he initiated, so they
could live the United Order, the opposite of Capitalism.You are
wrong on inequality ranks among nations, as the US ranks higher than any
industrialized nation for inequality, and well above Germany for instance, as
shown by CIA stats (per Gini Coefficient, the standard measure of inequality --
not some abstract slope): https://www.cia.gov/I will say the US has
high wealth inequality because the Capitalists (via Capitalism) take it all
(CEOs with $15 million per annum) while labor suffers with next to nothing, just
like industrial revolutionary Europe (Charles Dickens describes the same gap in
his writings of the era). Any socialism there is only serves to mitigate the
devastation the unfettered greed of the 1% would cause otherwise, left
Perhaps Nosea had something like this in mind - this is only a very short
excerpt:"As we pass around among the country cottages & see
the stone walls which are thrown down but more commonly the hedges in a decaying
& mutilated state it is very naturally for us to inquire what have you here?
& what the cause of this destruction? & we generally get but one answer,
'a few years ago I had a flourishing garden on the spot you now see &
it was surrounded with this hedge which was planted by my own hand; I had a cow
of my own which fed on yonder common - I labored on my masters farm, & had
plenty of time, morning and evenings, to till my garden, in which I raised
scarce enough for my family, & every year I had a good pig, plenty to eat,
& we were happy, but our Lords & masters have become more avaricious,
& are trying to get all they can themselves, & will hardly let the poor
live.'"The source, which can be found on the BYU website,
is Eugene England, "A Modern Acts of the Apostles, 1840: Mormon Literature
in the Making," p. 13.
If McDonals paid better, the prices would increase. People would be griping that
the food was expensive. Higher prices could put McD out of business. They have
to compete like everybody else. Not mentioned is that most McD's are not
owned by the Corporation but by individual franchise owners. They have every
right to choose how much to pay employees. You are talking about thousands of
small businesses around the country. Those minimum wage jobs are not intended to
be career positions. Most fast food places are good at promoting from within. I
worked at fast food and was given a raise after 3 weeks. I was offered the
option to enter management training with another raise in pay. So, if I had
wanted to stay, by now I could have been making a very nice salary. Employees
start at minimum wage, but if they show leadership and motivation, the prospects
for the future can be there. If you want to get paid to do as little as
possible, then minimum wage is just the right place for you.