Big mistake by Utah. Foye was the most consistent guard the jazz had last year.
should have kept him and threw Mo out of the door. We needed Foyes range from
the bench. It's too bad they traded him.
I'm excited to watch the new Jazz play! Add some Sloan influence on these
young guys and we should have a very entertaining year!
Reports say Jazz were brought in to this deal to make it work ("facilitate
it") for G.S. and Denver. Apparently Jazz did not want to lock themselves
into a multi-year deal to bring back Foye, despite what he did for them last
season. Lindsey is seen by many so far (but not all -- e.g., Adrian Wojnarowski
at Yahoo!) as doing a great job for the future of the Jazz. But is he doing an
even better job for the present of the Warriors? They owe him big time . . . .
I am glad that teams can help each other out. Nuggs helped Jazz get Gobert this
year. If it is a win win for each team that is all that matters. Foye was good
but he was burned out as a starter and Corbin kept using him way too much. Rush
will take his place, is much younger, and has more years to play.
The Jazz have now collected $24 million in cap space, 2 unprotected 1st round, ,
3 second round draft picks (one of the three in this deal for Foye), and an
undisclosed amount of cash.Foye will probably hurt but they may have
replaced him with an equally good 3 point shooter in Brandon Rush who is a
better defender then Foye.Once again, what are you going to do
though? Sign him and bring him back with Burkes sits the bench? We
are at a point where we have to find out whether our young guys will pan out to
decide whether the are worth keeping and signing to big extensions.Everyone whining about the vets leaving really ought to realize that the vets
we had missed the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years and were roadkill the one
year they did get in. Some good guys to be sure but lower tier in terms of
results.We will likely win 20-30 games max next season but we will
find out if young guys are worth big money, we will likely be in good draft
position, and have a boatload of cap space.Bravo Lindsey. Bravo.
Foye seems like a good dude, but as a player I'm not particularly sad to
see him go. He is the very definition of "one-trick pony." If he's
not hitting his threes, he's useless. Best of luck to him, but he's
not any kind of long-term solution except as a 7th or 8th man.
@ Jazz SourceI liked most of what you had to say except I think the
Jazz will definatly win more than 30 games!
"You are of so little value to this team that we will happily trade you for
a second round pick 4 years from now." I understand that a variety of
factors (including salary cap space) are included in these decisions, but that
would be a tough pill to swallow for a team member who perceives himself as a
Good job jazz management. You just got rid of the last player that could spread
the floor and shoot 3's. This offseason has already been a complete waste
of time. Good job to management for making other teams better though. Good call.
I have one question are the Jazz planning on keeping Marvin Williams?If so why?
I don`t think he will do anything to help the team!
As the roster stands the jazz will not win more than 20 games next year with the
youngsters. All those that were begging to give them the bulk of the minutes -
this is your time. When it doesn't pan out and the jazz can't score
bacause they don't have big Al, Millsap, and Mo Williams don't whine.
This is what you wanted. If you think the jazz will win more than 30 games
without signing a signifigant free agent then you simply don't know
Brahmabull - remind me how many playoff wins Big Al, Millsap and Mo led the Jazz
to? You enjoy taking 9th in the west, being perpetually the 14th pick and
staying on the treadmill of mediocrity? Big Al signed for over $14
million per year, dominates the ball and doesn't play defense.Millsap
signed for $9.5 million per year and wouldn't play for the Jazz unless he
was starting.Mo Williams hasn't signed yet, but has demanded that he
be a starter and wants a longer term contract.So Big Al and Millsap
would make $25-26 million, if you have to sign Derrick Favors and Gordon Hayward
to large contracts next season - that leaves no room for Kanter, Burks or Burkes
in the future -- not to mention any other roster spots that are needed. Lindsey and the Jazz brass know what they are doing.
UU32 "remind me how many playoff wins Big Al, Millsap and Mo led the Jazz
to? "Your not serious are you? I mean to put what happened the
last two years on these two?You do realize that both guard
production for the past two years have been dismal, right?that last
year there was no consistent outside shooting... thus they packed it in and
neither Milsap, Big Al (although he was a consistent 18.0 points a game), Favor
or Kanter could do inside...Everyone want Favors... but when he had
minutes what did he do with them... NOT MUCH...
UU32I didn't say they need to resign ALL of them. They needed
to retain some scoring, probably big Al would be the best. Now they are paying
Biedrins almost as much as big Al would have made, and he is terrible. They let
them both go, didn't sign Iguadala, Ellis, Hickson, or any decent free
agent. So now instead of at least making the playoffs they will probably be near
last in the west. Clearly they had to let either Millcrap or Jefferson go, but
both? Now they have no low post scoring. And don't tell me they have Kanter
and Favors - they are not a consistant offensive threat. And now with Foye gone
we have no outside shooting besides Hayward (average) and Burks (average). I
think they are tanking this season, but with the jazz for years it is always
next year, next year, next year.
Wow, the tank job just keeps on rolling. I think the Jazz could be over
valuing those draft picks. The NBA as a whole usually does. They are such a crap
shoot. And a second rounder? Hardly worth the effort.
Confused - re-read my post - I included Mo in there - if I'm not wrong - he
is a guard.
UU32 > Brahmabull + Confused.Saying that Al and 'Sap were
the reasons the Jazz were mediocre over the past few years isn't the point
at all. Fact is, they were core performers on those so-so teams. Both have
already peaked as players and are not worth tying up tons of cap space and
praying they can lure a couple of top guards to join them through free-agency.
Offering big money to both of those guys would've killed them long-term. I
was hoping they'd find a way to keep 'Sap, but clearly they're
hoping to build through the draft. Their ceiling next year just dropped (but not
as much as some are implying), but the ceiling for 3-6 years from just raised,
at least theoretically.What comes of those draft picks and cap room?
I have no idea. That's up to good scouting and some luck.
An asset is an asset, no matter how much value you see in Second Round Picks.
But, Foye goes the way of the Youth Movement and I am fine with that. He did a
great job for the Jazz last year. This is a business though and instead of
losing Foye for nothing at least we're getting an asset that could lead to
something else (ie-the Burke trade).
2nd round picks are not even likely to make the team Lindsey. What's your
next lame brain move. Lindsey and Corbin should have been traded to the Celtics
for Doc Rivers.
Jefferson and Millsap were good guys and good players. I think we all could
agree with that. However, they were looking for long term deals and if they
stayed here it means we can't find out as quickly what we really have in
the core 4 (now core 5). Other posters have already said that resigning one or
both those guys means more years of what we've seen over the last 3 years.
Now we have a chance to see if these young guys can flourish and after this year
have a ton of cap space to make adjustments. This might not work, but what were
were doing before was definitely not working. The team needed a shakeup. Get on
board, this will be fun. The starting 5 for the Jazz average age will probably
be younger than some college teams (like BYU for example).
BIG MISTAKE!!!! The jazz must owe Golden state a favor. Letting Foye go for 3
Million dollars being paid by Denver for him. Where can you get a player of his
quality for that cheap price. Second round picks are not worth much. I have
agreed with all of the moves up until this one. This will be another "regret
of letting one go" by Lindsey and Oconnor.
I think it was a mistake not keeping Foye, but i understand letting Big Al and
Milsap go. Big Al could put the ball in the hoop but he was non-existant on
defense. At 14 million a year it was time to look to the young pups to mature.
Milsap was only going to resign if he was a starter and the jazz took a gamble
on Favors stepping up this year. you have to understand that good free agents do
not want to play for the Jazz unless the Jazz want to overpay. With the new CBA
the teams that are looking good moving forward are the ones that build through
the draft. This year will be a write-off and the brass knew it so they planned
for the future. Between next years draft and the cap space the jazz could look
very good. You have to be patient and hope for some luck. Remeber we are not the
Lakers...cant afford to pay luxury tax.
@Brahmabullif you wanted to re-sign Big Al and/or Paul Millsap, and
tried to sign either Monta or Iggy...then i guess you really dont want the young
guys to play minutes next season...and some team would take them during free
agency...and then its Wesley Mathews all over again...Gordon Hayward and Derrick
Favors could help a lot of teams...the only reason i think the brass is doing
this...is to finally know what they got with the young guys...now this upcoming
season would be a pressure season for this young guys...since they need to
perform...and their future salaries would depend on how they play this
year...that being said...if Favors, Kanter, Burks and Hayward erupted...and
became focal points of the team...we would have enough cap to extend and sign
them for multi-year contracts...if they don't and the brass thinks they
could get better players via free agency...they would be in a position to
rebuild via free agency...due to the cap space...so Lindsey is creating multiple
options for him to rebuild this team
We all pray that Lindsey really does have a plan here... From a Long time Jazz
fan the word TANK just doesn't sit right for some reason... Will someone
remind Dennis that we need at minimum two hoops and several shot clocks...
don't sell off all the assets.
Cleaning house is the only way to go if Utah truly want build a championship
team.They must build from the draft first.Holding on to
overpaid veterans, or signing a good free agent now would only perpetuate the
40+ wins seasons and continued drafting middle late first round players, it
just perpetuates mediocrity.They first must get top draft picks to
build around, then you can supplement that with good free agents later for
playoff or championship runs.
Don't give up on the JAZZ so quickly. Sure we are having some big changes
and maybe this will be a building year---but I am looking forward to an exciting
season! I think the young kids are going to surprise a lot of people. I will
be anxiously awaiting the start of the season.
@Floyd Johnson--Jazz didn't have a place for Foye, therefore it was a
choice between letting him go elsewhere, or doing a sign and trade like they
did. We just got a draft pick for nothing in return. @milner--As
for Marvin Williams, he opted into the last year of his contract and had surgery
immediately after. No team wants his contract for him to play three months this
season.Don't forget, this is an opportunity for Corbin to show
if he can really coach. The team may be setting him up for failure in the last
year of his contract, but there are still a lot of good coaches out there that
we can snatch up if we don't want him anymore. I would be happy with the
Jazz promoting Sloan to head coach after this season.
Everybody needs to settle down about only getting a 2nd round pick for Foye.
That's not what happened. We got a 2nd round pick for facilitating a trade
between GS and Denver. We signed Foye with the intent of trading him. If the
trade wasn't on the table they wouldn't have signed him (at least not
for $9 mil for 3 years). If we weren't planning on signing him anyway,
they basically got something for nothing. They got a 2nd round pick for doing a
little paper work. Not bad if you ask me.
The Jazz have traded away most of their offense now (Jefferson, Milsap, Foye,
and their sparkplug Carroll)- look to be trying to get deep into the lottery
next year. WISH THEY HAD KEPT DEMARRE.
I've been a Golden State Warriors fan for many years and not a Jazz fan and
live in Utah. The Jazz are making bonehead moves and becoming the joke of
the N.B.A. which is odd because the N.B.A. was already a joke.
This is getting weirder and weirder by the minute
@BrahmabullClearly you don't get it. Even
re-signing one or either of them does nothing for your franchise because neither
actually is worth their current contracts in terms of results. Atlanta is a
load of Jazz cast-offs. Clearly they were just signing any all free agents they
could. Who believes they are a threat in the east? Nobody but now they are
stuck with that prospect because they gave long term deals to the wrong players
with limited upside. Korver? 27 million? Are you kidding? That clearly
demonstrates desperation for a guy that can't defend or create his own
shot. Now they pair Horford with Millsap? Talk about the mini-me front
court!Is any of this sinking in? The jazz are tired of your
suggestion which is good enough to get close to the playoffs but not make it.
Why not try something with upside? Favors already dominates defensively more
than a cumulative total of AJs career defensive efforts! Millsap wants big
money and starters role. Can't do that here and maintain massive cap space
and flexibility.Try to grasp the bigger picture!
I love everything that the jazz are doing. I could be wrong, and these could be
the wrong moves, but we weren't making the right moves. I will definitely
look forward to talking to joe5 and brahmabull in a couple of years.Just remember, consistency is only good if you're good -- being
consistently mediocre is awful.I've heard that the definition
of insanity is doing the same thing the same way over and over again and
expecting different results. Well at least we moved out of that cycle.
@imabelieverESPN disagrees with your analysis. They have repeatedly
stated how well the jazz have drafted, traded to stockpile picks while giving up
nothing, and maintained financial flexibility.It's not rocket
science but clearly you act like this is difficult to understand.No
teams regret multiple draft picks and money to spend when there are free agents
available that matter like next offseason.The Jazz are smart. Your
Warriors just bet the farm on Iggy. Sorry but he is not a great player and your
team just gave us all your draft picks for several years. Are the warriors able
to beat spurs or heat? No. Now u have zero options to boot.
It was just time for the jazz to rebuild, and so far i think they are doing a
great job of it so far. Yes I loved Big Al and MIlsap but they just weren't
part of our longterm future. I was tired of seeing the jazz being an 8th seed
that was going nowhere and i think so was jazz management so they blew the team
up and decided to see if the players they used lottery picks on or traded for
can become the players they are projected to be. We should not be arguing about
this we should be excited for the change as it shows the change aren't
sticking to their old "safe" ways that kept us from really accomplishing
anything more than an eighth seed. Lets just set back and see what these young
guys can prove themselves and become good-great players.
@Hank JrI agree with you....
My guess is, 4 years from now we are all going to look back on this
summer's free agency, and realize what a genius Lindsey is. Look, this had
to happen. Jefferson was and is a defensive liability. Yes, he's great
offensively, but his lack of defense pretty much wipes that out. Favors is
better defensively, we've seen that already, and given, consistently,
starters minutes, believe me folks, he will flourish, as will Kanter. We saw
glimpses of it last year...we will see huge improvement this year. I can't
wait for this year to start. And yes, I'm with a lot of you on the
"next year, next shmear" mantra, but that is the way it's been
because we didn't have brass bold enough to clean house and start
rebuilding like Lindsey is doing now. We aren't going to be that good this
year. But I think in 4 years we will have a serious contender. Free Agency and
the Draft will be very good to us, and, anyone doubting Lindsey's
abilities...just look at his track record in San Antonio.
Good thing for the Jazz that Lindsey is running the show and not the conflicted
fans. If you can't even make the playoffs with a team why keep the
starters? Lindsey is showing bold, aggressive management. The Jazz will be
better than expected this year and could be a solid playoff team in the future.
You whiners about only getting a 2nd-round draft pick aren't thinking this
through. Guess what the Jazz would have had if they hadn't done this deal?
Nothing. Foye's a free agent. What's more, it's
obvious that the Jazz are giving a HUGE vote of confidence to Hayward and Favors
- both of whom they need to re-sign this year - and telling them, in effect, you
are our future and we're going to give you every chance to make us a
championship contender again in coming years.The best thing about
the new team is that they've picked winners - Hayward and Burke are both
guys who have proven that they play above their abilities to win. That kind of
mental toughness and winners attitude is vastly under-rated in this league
during the draft, but it's easy to recognize later because guys who have it
win more games and championships. The new Jazz will learn mental
toughness and how to win together. Ultimately, basketball is a team game - as
San Antonio has shown year-in, year-out. Glad the Jazz know that and show it in
I think some of these people just like to complain, most of us were complainging
about how we weren't using the young guys, now that we are, everyone is
complaining, I hope we lose every game and get the #1 draft pick, and maybe a
star will sign here also, because they see the potential. Stop complaining and
lets see what happens.
We still have no bench. Every starter from last year minus Gordon is gone and we
got in return one second-round draft pick. WOW! This is going to be a long, ugly
year. Foye was a big loss as was Demarre Carrol
To be honest...i was really looking for this...a complete overhaul...i dont
think this has happened...we always bring free agents for continuity...and this
time...we are building it from scratch and from the draft...think about the
stats Kanter and Favors did playing limited minutes...especially Kanter...when
he got the minutes...i think he recorded 1 20-20 game...yes i know i cant judge
by just one game...but...if the guy can do it...im sure it will
repeat...plus...we haven't seen Favors yet...this year...after his sessions
with Karl Malone...i think this for me is a welcome change...and i am sure we
will be losing for the next 2-3 years...but if it makes us as good as the
Thunder...that's good with me...
So we let go of our two best scorers and now we let Foye go who was our best
three-point shooter since Korver? And this is progress? More like decimation
to me. Playoffs goodbye till 2020 and our kids grow up maybe. Trey isn't
doing so well in the Summer league either, so see you in a few years Jazz.
You've been rash and impulsive in putting this team together and letting
big scorers go. As if this new group is going to make up for that? It's
sad to watch.
@bigirishits like the old group would win us a championship...be
realistic...the team is rebuilding...you cant rebuild if you are pushing for
continuity...no one is forcing you to watch the massacre that is going to happen
the next season...for sure we would lose a ton of games...and would probably win
Rush is just as good shooter as Foye, better defender and also a better
rebounder!so at teh moment we 1. Burke - Vacant - Burks2.
Burks - Rush - Hayward3. Hayward - Jefferson - Williams4. Favors -
Evans - Gobert - Willaims5. Kanter - Gobert - BeidrensWe still
Mc Neal, Mo & Tinsley -unsigned or not GuranteedI personally think
with all that cap space next year and we will know by them which of the rookies
will be up to the task by then - the future looks good