Sad state of affairs on the hill. Football is in the tank, basketball is a
mess. Can it get any worse?
A team of investigators appointed BY the University of Utah essentially found
nothing wrong and claim that all the victims testimonies were wrong.
Down Under, couldn't agree any more. When the leadership is so focused on
money and prestige (going to the PAC12), their focus on the student athletes
dropped off the radar and the leadership has let the coaching staffs of a number
of programs run wild. Any more of these issues and it would be time for Dr.
Hill to look for new employment rather than having someone else fall on his
Ji Bab - I disagree with your post. The investigation did find that the
athletic directors were wrong."the investigators found that the
associate athletics director over the swim program, Pete Oliszczak, and
athletics director Chris Hill failed to follow up on multiple issues inside
Winslow's program"What they didn't find was that the
swim coach physically abused students or had improper sexual relations. Dr.
Hill should have acted sooner but ultimately they did the right thing in not
renewing the contract for this year. Yes this is a black eye for the U program
but far from the major catastrophe many posters claim.
No surprise here except one thing, the U forgot about the parents who are
furious. Gotta applaud the U's effort to sweep this under the carpet
though and the press to do practically ZERO investigative reporting.
Interesting tweets by Scott Garrard citing the executive report on the U.
Swimming investigations: "Executive report on U swimming investigation:
'With a limited number of possible exceptions, Winslow does not appear to
have physically abused student athletes. Whether coach's training methods
are psychologically abusive is inherently subjective.""With
a limited number of possible exceptions..."? What? Isn't that what
they were supposed to be investigating? So basically, this report told us
nothing at all that we didn't already know. He's been accused of
physically abusing students and, according to the report, he didn't EXCEPT
for a a limited number of possible exceptions.Great job,
fellas...I'm sure things will sort themselves out, but the findings of this
"investigation" are ridiculous.Sounds like Chris Hill acted
promptly to the accusations, though, which is a good thing. He's a good AD
and a good guy.All the best to him, and I really DO hope things get
resolved, but those initial findings from this "investigation" are
To the dismay of the byu "fans", Dr. Hill will not lose his job.With his leader, the gap between Utah and byu will continue to grow, as the
Utes move "onward and upward"Go Utes.
Unfortanely this has been going on for years. As a former member of the swim
team and a U of U graduate the AD has refused to correct problems for over a
decade. He will get a slap on the wrist and continue to be hailed as the
initiator of the Pac 12 and Utah connection. I feel bad for the U of U student
athletes and am glad to no longer be associated with University of Utah
It's a sorry state of affairs for the team down south when an article about
allegations to a Utah swim coach garners more attention of byU "fans"
than the actual byU stories.Go Utes!! Onward and Upward!!
Chris Hill is neglecting the student athletes. Let's see:New state
of the art track facilityNew women's baseball stadiumNew
football training complexNew outdoor tennis courts with stadium seatingPlans for new basketball training center for men and women underwayPlans
to update the Huntsman center underwayPlans to expand RES underwayOh, and let's not forget, a lot more student athletes are on
scholarship because of Hill's leadership in leading Utah to the PAC 12 with
its increased revenue.To accuse Dr. Hill of neglecting student
athletes is just absurd.
I can't believe anyone would tolerate poor behavior from a swim coach. The
reputation of the administration and the entire program suffers. Winslow should
have been fired immediately upon his due process. Sadly, this is
nothing compared to the emotional, psychological and sometimes physical abuse
that occurs in coaching daily. We've all seen it and many of us felt it in
our own participation . . . and I'm talking about youth and high school
sports! In fact, parents are often the worst offenders. Are we really
surprised it continues at the collegiate level? Criticize Hill and
the U all we want, but each of us can cite a dozen incidents at every level to
match this one.
Dutchman,These improvements are for more money not for the well being of
the athlete. Now I see why things are mess on the hill when the fans as well as
the administration only care about money and buildings.
tkdogg"...As a former member of the swim team and a U of U
graduate... I feel bad for the U of U student athletes and am glad to no longer
be associated with University of Utah athletics."____________Tell us your name and then we'll believe you were a member of the team.
Making a comment like yours while hiding behind a computer screen is too easy.
Not saying you're lying, but I can't say I believe you either.
Blue Smurf,Hit a nerve did I? Please don't try to compare a classy
BYU program with the like of the U. I have studied and worked at both and there
IS NO comparison. BYU will always be more relevant that Utah unless you live in
SLC. The rest of the PAC11+U hardly knows you are around. Trust me, I have
hung out in PAC country for many years.
re:ekute I think you may have confused "onward and upward" with
"cover-up". And since this is a huge cover up (i.e. alumni and boosters
appointed as "special investigators") the problem is not going away and
more things will surface. This is not new, remember the Majerus years, the U
sacrificed a lot to cover up his actions, finally he got the U on probation and
they haven't been the same since. And you are right the two
Universities are separating, one is on ESPN all the time, playing in huge
stadiums all over the country, ranked higher than the U in everything (OK except
gymnastics, winning national championships, and the other...well it's not.
@ Down Under"These improvements are for more money not for the
well being of the athlete." Is that what you think collegiate
sports is about; the athletes? Those days ended in the 40's. It used to be
a scholarship was a four year commitment and now they're
semester-to-semester. Scholarships (educations) may end at a moments notice.
So yeah, judge the Hill(s) because this is unique to Utah. Whatever helps you
sleep . . .
@3grandslams" . . . cover-up . . .alumni and boosters appointed
as 'special investigators'"You're right, two of
three are U of U alums and all three hold high ranking positions as
government/NCAA investigators. I have to give you credit for bravery though,
accusing three attorneys and a state university of collusion in writing; pretty
"It's a sorry state of affairs for the team down south when an article
about allegations to a Utah swim coach garners more attention of byU
"fans" than the actual byU stories."Surely you've
seen the scores of Ute comments on virtually any BYU story, most of which have
precisely nothing to do with the U of U. After all, you've contributed a
fair share. "To accuse Dr. Hill of neglecting student athletes
is just absurd."Listing all the upgrades Dr. Hill is paying for
as a means of excusing his handling of this issue just about sums up the state
of Ute athletics and far too many Ute fans. It is emphatically NOT all about
motorbike,It would be absurd to state my actual name. Suffice it to
say, I was a member of the swimming and diving team (Did you know these two
sports coe-exist)from the last 90's to early 2000's. My wife was also
a member of the team. Historically you can look and there have been reported
problems in the past with very little done. I was at the U when it was part of
the WAC and then the initation of the MWC. In those years the platform events
were also initiated. Look at how many Freshman left after Mike Litzinger (Ohio
State product) and Carrie Ziebarth (Diving Coach) took over in the 2001 season
and this should explain some things. Any other questions?
Ask the student athletes if they want these upgrades. I have and they
absolutely do want them. They know it is about them and not the buildings. AD
Holmoe admitted not long ago that he too wants a new basketball training
facility for men and women but for BYU that is years down the road. I guess
Holmoe is just thinking about the building. Such is life now as an indy with a
small bank account. Utah is also expanding the Burbidge Center where student
athletes go to study and graduate with degrees. With APR scores at Utah at
their highest levels ever and the ones at BYU at some of the lowest I guess the
gap between who takes better care of student athletes will just get wider and
Cougar fans upset with the investigation?Imagine my shock.
Dear Down Under, et. al: What is lost in all of this is dreams have
been shattered, families impacted, and communities in turmoil. This should not
be a springboard to highlight football or any other irrelevant activity. I
think it takes class to admit when you are wrong. I think it takes courage to
change behavior. I think it is pride when you can't look at yourself and
recognize the change that needs to come from within. Shame on you Down Under
for taking this article and turning it into a soapbox to spew contentious
statements. Is that the classy behavioir you've learned (along with Max
Hall) while attending your supreme institution?Go UTES!!
Football is totally in the tank. They never beat good teams.
@3grandslams"And you are right the two Universities are
separating. One is on ESPN all the time..."I guess that's
fine, if you don't mind games at strange times on places like ESPN U,
sandwichedr in between events like the WNBA and the World Series of Poker."playing in huge stadiums all over the country..."Yeah, like Idaho U's 16,000, Idaho State's 12,000, San Jose
State's 30,000, etc. This should not be confused with the teams that Utah
now regularly plays, such as Arizona State's 71,000, UCLA's 92,000,
and USC's 93,000."winning national championships..."Yes, that rugby championship was truly impressive.
PapaSmurf: The U used to be able to build in a guaranteed win with Utah State
also. Guess those days are over huh?
Hill has always been the problem and the reason the Utes are a disaster
Athletically. They are starting to resemble the 70's where just getting a
BYU win was all that mattered! As long as Hill is at the helm, the Utes had
better get use to the term "pac12 celler-dwellers"
I get such a kick out of seeing you trolls go back and forth on these articles.
The BYU Trolls do it on the Ute articles and the Ute Trolls do it on the BYU
articles. Since when did the Church you BYU fans profess to so love ever teach
you to hate or ridicule another program? And you Ute fans with such intellect
and higher intelligence fighting for equality in all you do standing there and
oppressing your brother. Shame on all of you!The fact of the matter
is the Utes have not preformed in the PAC 12 like we all expected. They need to
do better and I believe they will. And what about you BYU? You know if the
Utes were playing your schedule you would be the first to accuse Utah of
scheduling Cream Puffs to get to that Bowl Game. I'm a Ute fan
but I cheer for both BYU and Utah State when they are not playing the U. I want
ALL my in state teams to do well.Love people, not hate, LOVE.....
@Perkunas: "Surely you've seen the scores of Ute comments on virtually
any BYU story"Uh, no I haven't. I don't troll byU
stories, nor do I care about the vast majority of them or who posts on them.
Nice to show your Utah support on this story, though! I love it
when byU "fans" stop by and show their love for all things Ute!!Go Utes. Onward and Upward!!
Wow - Wookie nailed it!
Dr. Hill was so self-absorbed with the PAC12 and the money and power it brought
him that he neglected to look after his most important obligation - the
student-athlete.Will anything come of it - no. Hill is too
Ballatas,I sleep just fine thank you. I root for a class act in BYU that
puts athletes first and money second or third. I understand that
this sounds old fashioned to you and your cronies but that is just fine with me
and I WILL continue to sleep well.
One of the things about Dr. Hill's tenure is the huge subsidies the UU
athletic department receives every year from state taxpayers. Millions of
dollars every year, despite big Pac 10 paychecks.Why should fans of
Utah St., BYU, Weber St., UVU, and all other universities in the state subsidize
BCS teams that are actively trying to hold them down, and shut them out of
equitable bowl games? Instead of subsidizing UU athletics, part of that BCS
money should go to the state's general education fund. No sense
subsidizing gold toilet seats for BCS teams!
VegasUte - "I don't troll byU stories, nor do I care about
the vast majority of them or who posts on them."Then let me
educate you. You said, "It's a sorry state of affairs for the team
down south when an article about allegations to a Utah swim coach garners more
attention of byU "fans" than the actual byU stories."There are BYU stories that currently have 131, 79, 59, 50, and 43 comments on
them. Far more attention that this story has received, even when you factor out
the many, many Ute trolls. And those are just the active stories, the trend is
consistent if you go through the archives. BYU-centered articles drive traffic
on the DN, both from fans and trolls.Your second statement above is
patently false on its face.
Wookie, You can end the Sunday sermon now. If you think this is
what you described earlier then please reread. Hill needs to go and the U
needs to clean up its act. The U will not become the great institution is was
meant to be with this type of ignorance by top officials or tollerance of bad
coaches. The comment by Hill "I could have done better" does not cut
it when it come to people lives. End of discussion!
rhappahannock: bitter much?Thanks for coming by and giving us Utes
your love, though. Much appreciated.Go Utes! Onward and Upward!!
Another embarrassing moment for my Utes. But I love 'em and will stick by
them through thick and thin.
Res Novae: There are quotation marks around the word fan in my post, which
implies that they are more Utah haters than byU "fans". There are those
who post on byU stories too who are Utah "fans" (Chris B). In addition,
it was posted to mock a previous post by a byU "fan". Once
again, thanks for coming by and giving us your love! Glad to see you are
reading Utah stories, we appreciate your support! Oh, and also - thank you for
increasing the post count on this story by one.Go Utes! Onward and
ekute"To the dismay of the BYU "fans", Dr. Hill will not
lose his job"Typical response from a BYU hater, more concerned
with the reaction from BYU fans, than with how athletes at the U were being
physically, psychologically and emotionally abused.Chris Hill is
simply lucky that, unlike at Rutgers, none of the abuse was videotaped,
otherwise, the Utes would be looking for a new AD.
Everything about this story smacks of a cover up and whitewash. From claiming
that the AD wasn't informed of Winslow's alleged sexual abuse of an
athlete in Arizona to hiring a team of investigators with close ties to the U
to conduct an "independent" investigation.I like Dr. Hill,
but there's absolutely no excuse for Winslow not being fired on several
occassions and the ultimate responsibility for Winslow not being fired sooner
rests with Chris Hill.
Everyone who understands the cultural and mentality on the hill - that Kyle
Whittingham and Chris Hill walk on water and couldn't possibly do anything
wrong - knew before the independent investigation even began that, at most,
Chris Hill would get off with a light scolding and slap on the wrist regardless
of what the investigators reported.So it's no surprise that
Hill won't even be getting that slap on the wrist.After over a
hundred years of supervising college athletics, the Utes will finally establish
polices to protect student athletes from being abused by their coaches - how
Unfortunately for Utah, Winslow is just the latest in a long history of coaching
abuse that's been happening at the U for at least the last 20 years. First
Majerus. Now Winslow. And, who knows how many others.
re: allotasballtasNot being brave, just stating the obvioius. Please
don't throw around titles and positions as qualifications for integrity,
especially using a refernce to government and the NCAA. I can't think of
two more entities that suffer the stain of hypocrisy and cover-up more than they
Too many of you are blind to reality. When you get a bunch of ambitious, type A
personalities together, whose jobs depend on the performance of their
"student athletes," bad stuff will happen. If you think nothing like
this has ever happened at your school (yes, even BYU), then I believe you are
naÃ¯ve. I've been around awhile. I've been close enough to the
field to hear the kinds of language that spewed from the mouths of some BYU
football coaches. I have close friends who played b-ball for Frank Arnold at the
Y...and were instrumental in his ouster, because of his unfair and abusive
behavior (not physical, but mental/emotional). This stuff happens. Nevertheless,
it must not be tolerated. If this helps Dr. Hill reevaluate his oversight and
prevent more of this behavior in the future, it's a good thing. He has
brought much success to the U and I believe he deserves another chance...but
only once. Cougar trolls, you would be wise to be less harsh. Something like
this could easily happen on our turf too.
Down Under:Tell me how my calling you out is a Sunday sermon? Are
my remarks not true? Tell me, where is your class? Merriam Webster defines
classy as having or reflecting high standards of personal behavior. I am
confused, is this what you have exemplified? Does your academic institution
espouse the behavior displayed? Does your faith teach you love, tolerance, and
forgiveness? I have been taught certain principles and precepts and I try daily
to incorporate them into my daily actions. What say you?GO UTES!!
@oldcougarYou and a few others on these boards represent that cougar
"class" that the other cougar "fans" are always bragging about.
Some of you ute fans defending the U, need to read the post of your fellow fans
and recognize that this is bad any way you slice it. You can disparage Y fans
but it won't change the fact that unless Dr. Hill is properly investigated,
and those around him, and held to the very standard the U proscribes for
employment, this will go down as a embarrassing cover-up and Dr. Hills integrity
will be questioned for the rest of his career.
Hindsight is 20/20, when you have all the evidence laid before you it's
pretty easy to make a decision. The evidence that we see today took years to
"...Now I am not one that thinks this should have cost chris hill his
job...".I am.In the 80's, Chris Hill was part
of a White Paper Investigation, of the Utah State Developmental Center.Chris Hill wanted someone to lose their job as a result of reports of alleged
abuse.Fast forward 30 years and we have Chris Hill telling
taxpayers...We'll do better next time?That's
it?That's all?Don't do as I did, do as I do
now?What kind of leadership is that?
Wookie - they are just jealous because you were spot on!Go Utes!!
@ Old CougarNicely done. What comes around, goes around. This could
happen any where, and I mean any where. I remember when Josh Heyfelt had the
little mushroom possesion incident at Gozaga. Let's not forget what went
down at Penn St. It happens.....unfortunately.
I have to agree, I really do. As a life long Ute supporter, I was unaware that
the campus had a swimming pool (We always swam at South High School). I was
unaware that I could generate enough income for the school for the U to provide
me with a grant-in-aid to cover my costs of attending. I agree that if my son
told me that a "drunk" was coaching him and verbally abusing him, that
it would be 100% up to Chris Hill to look that coach in the eye and suggest that
he resign. NOT. What was it about this loser that made him so intimidating?
Again, I agree, if having a drunk or aggressive teacher as part of your
University experience is concerning, then there are other departments at the U
and departments further South that better be careful. I expect my son and
daughter to deal with adversity as part of their education, because, heaven
forbid that they ever have to earn a living working for an abusive drunk as a
boss. It happens friends.
Thank you Vegas Ute... Happy 4th of July!
54-IQA lot of denial on the hill even with the facts that are
known.Chris Hill denies even knowing the details of Winslow's
and has openly admitted that he did absolutely NOTHING to follow up on the
report.As Duckhunter said, it's shameful that the university
allowed a drunk coach to repeatedly abuse his swimmers for years without lifting
a finger to stop it; it's shameful that the U hired a couple of Ute homers
to independently "investigate" Chris Hill's botched handling of the
whole situation; and it's shameful that even after the investigators openly
acknowledged that Winslow should have been fired at least a year ago, that the
university hasn't announced a single sanction against Chris Hill, the AD
who was ultimately responsible for allowing the abuse of Utah athletes to
continue for years.If you have evidence to prove that the U did more
to stop the abuse than is being reported, now's your chance to present it.
Otherwise, your weak "not knowing all of the facts" argument is nothing
but a smoke screen to avoid having to accept the shameful truth.
it is amazing that Chris hill gets away with not even a slap on the wrist. Did
the investigators read the original article or did they put their head in the
sand just as the local media did when the story first broke.
Thanks Wookie - you too!Go Utes!! Onward and Upward!!
Why would I be surprised if Utah actually did something about the problem, when
it should have been done? They were too busy gushing about being in the PAC 12.
Dr. Hill has it pretty good in that he can always push those below him under
the bus and the partisans will respond with "Go Utes!" Some folks
wouldn't recognize a problem it if reared its head right in front of their
8-5 overall, 4-5 PAC, 8th in 2011 5-7 overall, 3-6 PAC, 10th in 2012 3-9 overall, 1-8 PAC, 11th in 2013 (projected)Onward and Upward
must mean something quite different to the kids on the hill, than it does to the
rest of the college football world.
@54But supposedly we do "know all the facts". Didn't
utah just release the findings of this completely above board, thorough, and
"independent" investigation? So based on that don't I
"know all the facts"?It would appear you just shamefully may
a "frantic and emotional" post because that is what you just
automatically do when I have an opinion on a matter.So if I
"don't have all the facts" and utah supposedly just released
"all the facts" then who is really at fault here? It would seem that you
don't believe the findings either I suppose yet you posted what you posted.
Yes, you could've done better Dr. Hill. You failed in your number one duty,
which is to look after the emotional and physical well-being of your athletes.
At the very least, heads rolled at Penn State. You don't even get a slap on
the wrist. Pathetic!