I love my ESPN Membership. ESPN is the king of sports and they love BYU.
ESPN is a great partnership. I am glad to see that they recognize a quality and
a class-act program that they want to be connected to. The exposure is the best
in the state, much better than the PAC 11+U network.GO COUGS
Utah should be so lucky to have such a sweet relationship. BYU is the class of
A "win-win" is right. Now BYU needs to make it a win-win-win, by getting
some wins on the field. That is what will really open up the opportunities.
My favorite quote:"The great teams don't back away from
anybody"--Tom HolmoeHopefully Chris Hill heard that and saw it for the
jab at Utah it unintentionally was...or was it?
IRS,Agreed!! I am expecting an 8 win season.
"In most cases they say, 'No, I'm not interested in playing,'
which is a compliment to our program."***************Curious...How is it a complement to BYU if a coach declines to
"The really good teams don't have trouble scheduling. They're
like, 'We'll play BYU.' The great teams don't back away from
people,”**********So... are we to understand that if you
decline to play BYU, you're not a great team?
@CougsndawgsA jab at Utah?I've never heard CH be
anything other than gracious in his public comments about scheduling BYU...TH on the other hand can't seem to resist petty jabs.
Dave Brown can do all he can and probably get BYU some good home and home
opponents for September and October and get BYU all over the country. BUT
November with "FCS/Sun-Belt Cupcakes" will be the undoing of this
experiment just as a 10 school Big 12 will prove their undoing when they get
passed over by an ACC team or 2nd SEC team in the 4 team pool. Ultimately BYU
will need to join a "real" league if they're to gain in national
credibility or respect, even if such a league like the Big 12 "isn't
fair to Utah State" with Utah already in the Pac-12. In the other sports
such as basketball the WCC will never propel the Cougar brand as the MWC did,
and the perception will always be that BYU only gets winning records with a lite
November schedule as I outlined above.
I had a different take, great teams are not afraid to play anyone and they
believe they can beat BYU. Bronco wants a balanced schedule so right now he is
not ready to play anyone so he does not believe he can beat everyone.. He is
not ready to play a schedule that includes Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan
State, penn State, Wisconsin etc week after week.
@flatlanderOmaha, NEOf Bronco's not ready to play Ohio
State, Michigan, Michigan State, and Penn St....He loses 46% of the
time when he plays BCS teams.
SLC BYU Hater"Dave Brown can do all he can and probably get BYU
some good home and home opponents for September and October and get BYU all over
the country. BUT November with "FCS/Sun-Belt Cupcakes" will be the
undoing of this experiment"You need to update your BYU hating
smack.BYU plays Wisconsin(8-6), Notre Dame(12-1), Nevada(7-6), and
Idaho State(1-10) in November 2013 - three teams with winning records including
a BCS championship game participant and the B1G's Rose Bowl representative,
combined record 28-23whileUtah plays Washington
State(3-9), Washington(7-6), Arizona(8-5), and Colorado(1-11) - two teams with
winning records, neither with a significant bowl game appearance, combined
record 19-31It's obvious which team is really playing the
"cupcake" schedule in November!
howieHow successful has Kyle been against BCS teams with winning
records, especially since the Utes joined the PAC? How many games has Kyle lost
to BCS teams with losing records?* crickets *
Somehow I'm of the opinion that every team and/or conference needs support
from ESPN (except Notre Dame and their tie-in with ABC) so what's the point
of this article?
Y>UAnaheim, CAIsn't ND a 4 for 2 schedule? And when are the 2 at Provo scheduled?And isn't Wisconsin 2
games at Wisc and 1 game at Provo?
DeepBlue"How successful has Kyle been against BCS teams with
winning records, especially since the Utes joined the PAC? How many games has
Kyle lost to BCS teams with losing records?"Good points!The Utes love to hide behind labels and pretend that beating losing
teams with bcs logos on their jerseys is somehow significant. Two years in the
PAC and still desperately searching for their first win against a PAC 10.2 team
with a winning record is beginning to take it toll on our friends on the hill.
@DeepBlueAnaheim, CAWhit has a 56% record against BCS teams...
Bronco has a 46% record against BCS teams.
@cougsanddawgs - regarding the comment that really good teams will schedule BYU
and you jab at UtahDid you bother to read the next sentence before
distorting the article for your post? The rest of the comment is:
“They won't play us if they've already scheduled a really,
really good team outside of their really, really good conference. They'll
catch us on another year, and that's why we're doing games into the
2020s.Seem to me that Utah scheduled Michigan which is clearly a
really, really good team outside of their really, really good conference. Seems
to me that Utah will catch the Y on another year. In fact, Utah has done
exactly what Holmoe references for really good teams. Taking quotes
out of context is typical of you and several other posters that love to bash the
U. Why not take the high road and comment about the fact that ESPN has helped
BYU improve their schedule and hopefully they can drop the Idaho State/Idaho/New
Mexico St type games in the future.
howard s."Whit has a 56% record against BCS teams... Bronco has
a 46% record against BCS teams."Weak attempt, but the crickets
are still chirping.Now let's see if you're honest enough
to answer what was really asked:How successful has Kyle been against
BCS teams with WINNING records, especially since the Utes joined the PAC? How many games has Kyle LOST to BCS teams with LOSING records?
The key to the whole deal is that BYU needs to be good enough that every game is
a winner for everyone involved. When the other team wins, They get credit for a
good win. When BYU wins it shouldn't be embarassing. Competitive games
are a must for everyone to win. Go cougars!
@SportsFanOrem, UT56% vs. 46% is all you need to know about
the relative strength of Whit and Bronco against the BCS.If
you've got another point to make... make it... and cite your own evidence.
@SportsFanHow many games has bronco lost to Kyle in the last 3
years?How many games has bronco lost to Kyle since the Utes joined
the Pac12?How successful has bronco been vs Kyle?
@ CO Ute... You say that Utah is doing what the really good teams are doing...
except that Utah isnt'and hasnt' been a good team in the Pac-12. The
ESPN article on the PAC 12 upcoming season talks about Utah for 1/2 a sentence.
And it isnt' a positive 1/2 a sentence. The elephant in the room is that
Utah has recognized that unless they get more wins out of conference they will
finish with a losing record. For them to improve their win column they must
dumb down the out of conference schedule and play only an occasional good team
but mostly weaker teams than they have played in the past. Playing BYU poses
just too much risk.
@Virginians for BYU"Playing BYU poses just too much risk."
The last 11 years seem to prove different.Playing byu does
nothing for Utah on the national scale.Playing any other team from a
major conference brings national attention.Playing a lesser team
brings a guaranteed win.That's why Dr.Hill should demand 2 for
1 from tom. lol.Go Utes.
@Howard SYes, ND is a 4 for 2 schedule. BYU has to do that because
they are not ND. However, Utah has only been to South Bend. ND would not agree
to play at Utah and never will. Utah is too small of a fan base, stadium, and
lack of tradition. Like it or not, to even get ND to visit once is a compliment
for BYU. Funny how a non-bcs school like BYU can get ND to visit, but a BCS
school like Utah can't (although after next year, BYU and Utah are back on
the same level playing field...no more BCS) Once ND starts scheduling
Washington State, Iowa State and the likes for home and homes, Utah has hope.
@spokalooThere's no denying that byu has a national following
because of their religious affiliation.Not every LDS is a byu fan but
every byu fan is LDS. btw..that has a lot to do with why nobody wants you, and
btw..I'm LDS myself.ND scheduled byu 4 for 2 because it gives
them a cupcake with a national following.Go Utes.
Howard S."56% vs. 46% is all you need to know about the relative
strength of Whit and Bronco against the BCS."You think
you're clever, but all you're doing is proving the point that
Kyle's record against "BCS" teams is really nothing more than a
flimsy house of cards built on weak teams with losing records.Kyle's utter failure to win a single game against PAC a team with a
winning record, while losing TWO games to conference foes with LOSING records,
proves the point.Thanks for playing!
It will be interesting to see how holmoe handles scheduling when ESPN stops
airing byu football games late at night, and drops them all together. It's
no secret that only the power conferences (and ND) will be benefitting from the
College Football Playoff system that will begin next season.
June 4th I predicted BYU's 2013 schedule would be ranked by Phil Steele as
"rated somewhere near the 45th most difficult (2 years ago it was in the
mid-nineties) and I believe Utah's will be some 10 to 15 places higher"
I was close on BYU's. Actual ranking was 49th; however, Utah's was
rank significantly more than 10 to 15 places higher. Actual ranking 12th!! When I specifically asked a couple of Cougar fans to make an early prediction
(I wanted to test my ability to be somewhat objective and my prediction ability
against theirs!.) Duckhunter's response "...only Utes care to 1)
explain the past two years and 2) “preemptive third year”
“Other than that you can own me on that one because I really couldn't
care less.” I understood his 1 & 2 comments (that doesn't mean
they are not valid! But when he said he doesn't care I thought maybe he
(and other cougar fans) should care. When BYU replaces 2013 opponents Utah, Ga
Tech, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, and Idaho State with UNLV, U. Conn, and So. Miss
and 2 yet to be named - Someone should let BYU know they care.
@CO Ute:"Did you bother to read the next sentence before distorting
the article for your post? The rest of the comment is:They won't play
us if they've already scheduled a really, really good team outside of their
really, really good conference. They'll catch us on another year, and
that's why we're doing games into the 2020s".What
you're failing to address here, CO Ute, is that big time programs still
schedule their rivals. Florida still plays Florida St, Georgia still plays Ga
Tech, Michigan still plays ND, etc etc. Yet for still playing Georgia
(who's a heck of a lot better than Michigan) GT will still play BYU. Other
PAC12 teams schedule BYU but for some reason Utah can't? See the
difference?"Taking quotes out of context is typical of you and
several other posters that love to bash the U".Except that I
have given Utah credit on several occasions for deserving the PAC12, great
players, and wishing them future success in the PAC because it will help the
state. I like to rib ute fans the same way they rib us. Do you have a problem
ESPN recognizes an international brand and a great HD truck.
ekuteBeating BYU is obviously the single most important goal of
every BYU-obsessed Utah fan, as proven over and over and over again on these
blogs. NOTHING is more important to U than beating BYU, and NOTHING causes
greater angst on the hill than the mere thought of losing to BYU.If
BYU were a "guaranteed win", as you claim, why did your AD openly admit
that playing Michigan and BYU in the same year was too much for the Utes to
handle, so he dropped BYU to schedule Fresno State, a team that only has two
lifetime AP Top 25 finishes, #24 in 1992 and #22 in 2004?The
constant spin coming from the hill would make a whirling dervish jealous.
@ EKUteAs you say... "playing BYU does nothing for Utah on a
national Scale".... Hate to break it to you but Utah has already dropped to
nothing on a national scale..... Last 2 years they have started off the season
with Montana State, Northern Colorado Real powerhouses.... Those teams really
put Utah in the national spotlight....Stepped it up to Utah State this year...
SUU must have already been booked. Once they get into the conference it will be
the same story.... Lose most of the games. If Chris Hill believed that BYU was
a likely win, he would keep playing the game. If you want to impress someone
act like Alabama and play VA Tech for your first game. TCU is playing LSU.
Desperation at Utah says play for an easy wins which means don't play BYU.
Too much risk.
@ ekute"Playing byu does nothing for Utah on the national
scale."I disagree with you on that. Utah playing BYU is a
guaranteed ESPN game. Do you not think that playing on ESPN is promoting your
team on a national scale? Most of Utah's PAC 12 games will be on PAC 12
network or some other regional network. These networks are nowhere near as good
as ESPN, even you'd have to concede to that. Do you think playing Fresno
State will promote your team on a national scale? I think not.
BYU's toughest schedule yet (2013) ranked 49th most difficult by Phil
Steele! The article say's working on the 2015 schedule (4
games not yet scheduled)_- whereas it looks like there are only 10 games
scheduled for 2014! Regardless of what happens in 2013 BYU's 2014 schedule
will probably be somewhere back in the 90's as to difficulty. Should
assure 10 wins again and enhances self importance. .
2 years ago when U of U was invited to the Pac 10, I said they would eventually
become just like the other BCS doormats (Arizona, WSU, Iowa St., Northwestern,
Vanderbilt etc..)and become forgotten AGAIN in the college football scene. I
love Kyle W. and think he has done a great job, but if he has two more years
like last year, he will be gone! Who knows, maybe even this year. Point is, Utes
better start winning some games if they want to become the alpha dog program in
the state of Utah. If BYU finishes with a better record this year Ute trolls
can't blame BYU's easy schedule like they could the last couple of
years. Ute fans think because of the conference they are part of makes them a
better team. Start winning some games against the Pac 10 elite before you come
to a BYU article and beat your chests!
ekuteIf the sole measure for success was beating Utah, Bronco would
only be a so-so 3 of 8.Fortunately for Bronco and BYU, and
unfortunately for our BYU-hating friends on the hill, beating Utah is only a
small part of the overall measure of BYU's football success.BYU
fans enjoyed an exciting game in San Diego during bowl week this past season to
extend BYU's bowl-winning streak to four, and BYU's bowl appearance
streak to eight straight seasons. BYU is fast approaching their 2nd double-digit
bowl appearance streak, an accomplishment that the Utes will likely NEVER see
from that johnny-come-lately program on the hill.btw, how was your
CO Ute"Seem to me that Utah scheduled Michigan which is clearly
a really, really good team outside of their really, really good
conference."Seems to me that Utah scheduled Fresno State.All we get these days from you Uteville residents is excuses.And by the way... U'll be home for Christmas... a new holiday tradition.
i would like a hint or two about who the last game will be on the 2014 schedule.
it needs to be a great one to make up for another wise very average schedule.
For anyone, whether BYU fan or not, thinks that BYU is a national powerhouse is
crazy. They aren't there yet. ESPN has provided us with the opportunity to
play upper tier teams because of the brand "ESPN" and the coverage. It
has something to do with our fan base and filling a stadium. That being said,
they don't necessarily schedule BYU because of the football program. Yes,
we won a NC in '84 and had a string of great QBs. But that doesn't
come to mind of many ADs or college programs in 2013. Notre Dame is about the
only program (maybe Alabama) that can rest on its laurels. I am a die hard Coug
fan, but we need to be realistic about who we are, currently. The U won't
play because it doesn't do much if they win, and if they loose it is REALLY
bad. They don't have anything to gain, except local recruits, who they feel
they can get due to the PAC-12. BYU needs to worry about BYU and winning their
tough schedule this year, that's it!
I'm glad I re-read the headline. I thought at first it said ESPN was
critical "of" BYU scheduling. What a difference a preposition makes.Boys, boys, boys (and maybe girls): All your carping at each other
doesn't mean doodly squat. It's what happens on the field. Both
schools have admirable programs. Dissing each other and each other's school
just isn't classy. Entertaining sometimes, but not classy.Who
really cares about the statistics. They're flung around here like they
prove what the future will bring. I'm just guessing that there might be
more benefit from much less interest in the past (can't change it from what
I know) and more anticipation for what is coming in the future. But,
hey. Where can a guy such entertainment for such a low price?
@SportsFanOrem, UTA 46% winning percentage against BCS teams
proves that Bronco's Cougars are nothing more than paper tigers.They beat 2nd tier competition in the WAC/MWC with an 80% winning
percentage... but when they play the big boys they lose more than they win.
Like other BCS teams I think Utah should schedule BYU on a 2 for 1 basis.
Who am I sir?Pre-season SOS rankings are no more accurate than
pre-season team rankings.Last year at this time, USC was projected
to be a national championship contender. Check the final rankings from 2012. Do
you find USC listed anywhere in the final polls?The point is,
NOBODY, including you, can make any definitive determination on whether
Utah's or BYU's schedule will ultimately be rated more difficult, and
more importantly, which team will have greater success in 2013.---------HowieYou're still dodging and hiding
behind labels, proving that Kyle's record against "quality bcs
opponents" is nothing but a house of cards built on wins against weak,
losing teams like 1-11 Colorado.
@CougarColbyFort Benning, GACougar fans do think they are a
national power.An 80% winning record against WAC/MWC competition
creates the illusion among Cougar Nation that they are a national power...That illusion is crushed when they step on the field and post a losing
record against the big boys of the BCS.
These comments are great stuff. Here's a gem...spokaloo"Utah is too small of a fan base, stadium, and lack of tradition. Like it
or not, to even get ND to visit once is a compliment for BYU."Before you speak, you should make sure you know what you are talking about.
Holmoe said a couple weeks ago that he has heard nothing from ND regarding the
planned visits to byu and there is nothing on the schedule, yet. ND is entering
a quasi-conference relationship with the ACC which will limit their flexibility
with their future schedules. Apparently, you don't know that but Holmoe is
well aware. In time, we will find out just how important byu is to ND. Until
Howie:"Like other BCS teams I think Utah should schedule BYU on a 2
for 1 basis".Why exactly should BYU do this? They are home and
home with GT, home-neutral-home with Arizona, home and home with Washington
State. Oh wait...you must be under the impression that Utah is up there with ND
and Wisconsin, Texas and Nebraska. Isn't that cute. Lol
And byu is up there with the likes of New Mexico State, Portland, San Francisco
etc. Precious. lol.
SammygI think CO Ute was not bashing the Y, he was countering Utes
that are suggesting Tom was dissing the U for not scheduling the Y. I think he
was pointing out that any school with a tough non-conference schedule is less
enthusiastic about scheduling the Y (and that would include Utah). In years
where they have a lighter schedule, most schools (including Utah) feel that BYU
increases the strength and intrigue of their schedule - ergo a slot is found in
future seasons.Let's not take offense when none is intended. I
think CO Ute's comment was fair and actually countered some of the prior
comments by those trying to find a jab at the U in Tom's comments.
Cougar Files:"Let's not take offense when none is intended. I
think CO Ute's comment was fair and actually countered some of the prior
comments by those trying to find a jab at the U in Tom's comments".I agree with you. I brought up Holmoe jabbing the utes saying it was
"unintentional"...then saying, "or was it?". I was just having a
bit of fun but I think others (CO Ute) took it more seriously than intended. I
like to rib ute fans and have fun with it, but I've made it clear before
that I think they are a great school and a class organization. Hopefully no one
takes the jabs and poking fun too seriously.
Howard, Whitt's winning percentage against BCS cupcakes while in the MWC is
irrelevant.Whitt's winning percentage against real BCS teams is
the more accurate indicator of the strength of Utah's program, and in that
regard he's not doing too well: 7-11, or winning percentage of 39%. Add
in the predicted 2-7 record in the PAC this year, and he'll be at a pitiful
33%.But it does provide a clue as to why you like to troll BYU
articles so much.Oh, and when you can start beating USU on a regular
basis again then perhaps you can brag about your BCS record.
Ekute:We're talking about football here...Portland and SF don't
have football teams. As for NMSU they're up there with weber state, Montana
St, and northern Colorado...ya know easy wins for Utah (and BYU). Now what
exactly were you trying to say?I was pointing out that Utah is
similar to wazzu, AZ, and Georgia Tech in terms of commanding home and homes. Do
you seriously dispute that? Howie is under the impression that Utah is bigger
than those teams and can command 2 for 1s from BYU when those programs
haven't/can't. I don't believe Utah has the same clout as ND,
Texas, Nebraska, and Wisconsin. If you disagree, fine, but you might want to
bring more to the discussion than comparing BYU to bottom tier FBS or non
existent football programs.
"Hopefully no one takes the jabs and poking fun too seriously." 100%
Agreed!I too appreciate a sensible comment from either side once in
a while...then their are those like thebigsamoan that come of as being sensible
but always end their comments with a jab at Utah. lol.Now...back to
the fun...Everyday you byu "fans" tell us that losing to Utah means
nothing because blah, blah, blah. Then you turn and tell us that it is important
that we play each other and that we're scared??? Typical arrogant byu
"fan" frantic emotion. lol.
Many of you are tearing down BYU only because you are a U fan. I get it,
it's cool, that happens. But you know all to well that BYU albeit is not a
National Power, they can compete and play with anyone on any given day. So they
have had some down years in the past. I seem to remember some very down years
for the U in the past. Also, where BYU appears to be making some strides in the
upward direction, Utah seems to be falling in the wrong direction. Utah entered
what was a weak PAC-10 South, Sorry true PAC-10 fans still do not recognize Utah
and Colorado. They did alright but continue to slip further down the ladder. USC
will bounce back from their slip, UCLA is on the rise, Washington is making
forward strides, WAZZU I am sure will be back with the new air attack, the
Zona's are always in and out, and where does that leave Utah, at the
bottom...again. Sorry but get use to staying home in December and January.
@Virginians for BYU'Utah has already dropped to nothing on a
national scale"Comments like this crack me up. lolWhat does that
say for byu football the last 11 years. lol.
Who am I sir?Cottonwood Heights, UTI agree Utah looks to have
a much harder schedule. We will have to see how the Pac-12 does. Howard S.Taylorsville, UT"An 80% winning record against
WAC/MWC competition creates the illusion among Cougar Nation that they are a
national power..." How can you fault BYU for winn 80% of there
WAC/MWC competition when Utah did not win at the same rate when they were in
those conferences?To answer Snack PACOlympus Cove, UtahKyle record for BCS team he beat 137-168 44.9% win recordKyle
record for BCS team he lost to 110-84 56.7%Games lost to sub .500 BCS
teams 4Bronco record for BCS team he beat 60-87 40.8% win
recordBronco record for BCS team he lost to 110-84 56.7%Games lost
to sub .500 BCS teams 1
@FelisconcolorUtah has beaten USU 10 out of the last 11.That's pretty regular.Utah has beaten BYU 8 out of the last
11.That's pretty regular too.Maybe the Cougar
Nation should wait until they can beat Utah regularly before talking about their
national relevance.And for that matter maybe the CN should wait
until they can beat BCS teams regularly before talking about their national
@FelisconcolorBCS cupcakes?You mean those same BCS
cupcakes that beat BYU 54% of the time?
"Not every LDS is a byu fan but every byu fan is LDS."That's not entirely true; there are some posters on the DN comments and
the ESPN conversation boards who are BYU fans but not LDS. There are probably
more than those few.
Will BYU fans start putting ESPN window stickers on their cars, just like the U
fans put the PAC-12 window stickers on their cars?
@howieBeating utah is not the sort of thing that makes a team
nationally relevant. Not losing to utah helps in that a team does not have a bad
loss to a bad program on their record but beating them doesn't do much to
enhance a teams national relevance. The utah losses BYU has
sustained over the last few years are easily the worst ones BYU has suffered
because by losing to a program as mediocre as utah it has just confirmed to the
voters and national pundits that BYU has been less than stellar themselves. No
team that loses to a program the level of utah can reasonably expect to be taken
all that seriously, at least no more than a lower rung top 25 team which is what
BYU has been.The utah losses have not kept BYU out of the top 25,
BYU's reputation is such that even a utah loss can't do that on its
own, but it is an embarrassing enough loss to keep BYU out of the top 15. BYU
definately needs to correct that if it wants to rise up from lower top 25 team
to upper top 25 team.
"We’re aiming to have a really good schedule that... the people that
are going to be determining who goes to the playoffs feel that it’s a good
enough"."This year has a better schedule maybe than next year. But
I don’t think we can put together the perfect schedule every year."I hope Holmoe is not saying that this year's schedule is perfect.
While it is BYU's toughest schedule so far, it won't get the attention
of a future playoff committee. BYU's schedule needs to be even tougher.Holmoe notes that as strength of schedule gains emphasis, BCS teams will
look to BYU for beefing up that component. That's 8 or 9 BCS conference
games plus a tough BYU game in the hopes of that BCS team getting playoff
attention. The same is true for BYU. They too need a schedule of 9 or more BCS
teams. As a football fan, that would be great to see, but I don't think it
will be possible to craft. November is always going to be a schedule killer.
Kyle best win Alabama (12-2) and BYU would of lost that game that yearBroncos best win Oklahoma (8-5) and Utah might of won the game that year. Kyle worse loss Colorado (3-10)Broncos worse loss UCLA (6-7) BYU
lost one and won one the same year.I was wrong a little earlier Kyle
only lost 3 game to sub .500 teams I counted North Carolina twice.
RE:Howard S.Taylorsville, UTIt looks to me BYU and Utah both
beat sub .500 teams BCS teams and lose to BCS teams above .500.Utah
has played more sub .500 team to their record is better when playing BCS teams.
I will say Utah has beaten a four more BCS team with above .500 then BYU. And
Utah has beaten 4 more .500 or below then BYU as well.
Losing to Utah doesn't matter because we're byu...but...Losing to Utah does matter because we're byu.LOL!Go Utes.
"Holmoe knows that to be nationally relevant, BYU — especially as an
independent — needs to have a perennially attractive schedule."
Correction, national relevance does not come from an attractive achedule.
Beating "attractive teams" on the schedule (not teams from Idaho not
named Boise) is what brings national relevance.
howie"Cougar fans do think they are a national power."Unlike that flash-in-the-pan program on the hill, the Cougars ARE a
national power, as evidenced by their FIVE Top 25 finishes in the last 7 years!
@DuckhunterWinning 80% against 2nd tier competition creates an
illusion of success that gets the attention of some uninformed poll voters.What really excludes BYU from national relevance it's losing record
against the BCS including Utah.BYU is and always has been a 2nd tier
power with a broad but shallow church based following... nothing more... nothing
How does Roscoe feel about exposing himself on ESPN?
Sportsfan:To be fair how many games if BYU was placed in the PAC-12
instead of Utah, would the Cougars have won? When they can't beat Utah,
you can't say they would do a lot better, right?
It BYU played the same BCS team Utah played BYU would have a similar record.
2004 utah beatTexas A&M (7-5) toss up weather BYU would winArizona (3-8) BYU likely winNorth Carolina (6-6) BYU likely winPittsburgh (8-4) BYU likely win this was a bad Pitt team Utah should of got a
chance to play Auburn.2005 utah beatArizona (3-8) BYU winGeorgia Tech (7-5) BYU win2006 utah had no bcs wins2007 utah beatUCLA (6-7) BYU did win and lostLouisville (6-6) BYU
likely win2008 utah beatMichigan (3-9) BYU winOSU (9-4)
edge OSUAlabama (12-2) Alabama would kill BYU!2009 utah
beatLouisville (4-8) BYU winCal (8-4) toss up2010
utah beatPitt (8-5) BYU likely winIowa State (5-7) BYU win2011 utah beatGT (8-5) BYU winPitt (6-7) BYU likely winOSU
(3-9) BYU did winAZ (4-8) BYU winWSU (4-8) BYU win2012
utah beatCal (3-11) BYU win WSU (3-9) BYU winColorado (1-11) BYU winWhere am I wrong?
shorts"Kyle worse loss Colorado (3-10)"Close,
but not quite.Kyle worse loss shut out by UNLV(2-10) 0-27, a team
that only beat one other team, Utah State(2-10).Kyle has lost to TWO
10-loss teams in 7 years, almost as many as the three 10-loss teams BYU has lost
to...in their entire history!In addition conference
bottom-dwelling team Colorado and UNLV, Kyle also lost to MWC bottom dwellers
New Mexico(twice), Wyoming and Colorado St.Bronco has never lost to
a MWC bottom dweller.Overall, in wins against winning teams versus
losses to losing teamsBronco is 25-4Kyle is 25-6
One thing to keep in mind, it is that BYU coaches and players are going grow and
learn at a pace that will exceed other athletes due to the diversity of the
teams they play year to year. The scheming and play calling is going to vary
based upon different offenses and defenses from year to year. Whereas with the
U, they will have the same teams and same schemes with new wrinkles from year to
year. I'm not taking anything away from the U because I think their
schedule and teams they play will be consistently more difficult, what I am
saying is that I think this is good for the Y and their coaches and players.
@shortsCoulda-woulda-shouldas are meaningless.On the
field Utah has a winning BCS record and BYU has a losing BCS record.Fact...
eagle"To be fair how many games if BYU was placed in the PAC-12
instead of Utah, would the Cougars have won? When they can't beat Utah, you
can't say they would do a lot better, right?"Comparative
scores aren't a great predictor of success against other teams.Case in point:BYU crushed Georgia Tech 41-17 on the road (+24),
Georgia Tech easily handled USC 21-7 in the Sun Bowl (+14), and USC beat Utah
38-28 in RES (+10), so based on comparative scores, BYU should have destroyed
Utah by a score of roughly 58-10. Didn't happen.And, let's
not forget, BYU beat USU, a team Utah lost to.
Snack Pack,From one BYU fan to another, please please PLEASE
don't refer to BYU as a National Power. I like your positive energy, but
we're just not there yet. Trust me, no one wants it more than me, but lets
not put the cart before the horse. It only feeds the ute trolls.
The benefit for BYU's independence when coupled with the Espn contract is
that they can schedule teams all across the country because these teams want
non-conference nationally televised games. If BYU has a decent team
and can get lucky with opponents that aren't spectacular, but have winning
seasons at the end of november, BYU could get a shot at going undefeated and
getting a playoff invite. As the schedule is made a couple years in
advance, they have the risk of all opponents going sub 500 or the risk of all
being top 25. Neither scenario is good for the team down south. That is why the
scheduling is such a hard process.Utah on the other hand is always
guaranteed to have top 25s, sub 500s, and several 8-4 or 7-5 teams on their
schedule, but without the national exposure for most games. (Pac12 network is
great, but not the same as espn2). BYU needs to always remember
though, they are nothing without the Espn deal. Voters are much smarter now than
they were in 1984 and won't vote on record alone (e.g. 2008 season)
Snack PACTop 25 ranking evidence of national power?What
is a losing BCS record evidence of?What is a losing record to Utah
evidence of?What is being snubbed in conference realignment evidence
of?hint... not evidence of national power or relevance.
Here's the real bottom line:Best Seasons, based on rankings
(which are the final measure of each season) and records1) #1/#1
BYU(13-0) 19842) #2/#4 Utah(13-0) 20083) #4/#5 Utah(12-0) 20044) #5/#5 BYU(14-1) 19965) #7/#7 BYU(11-1) 19836) #10/#8 Utah(10-2)
19947) #12/#12 BYU(12-1) 19808) #12/#12 BYU(11-2) 20099)
#13/#11 BYU(11-2) 198110) #13/#12 BYU(11-1) 197911) #18/#10
BYU(10-3) 199412) #14/#15 BYU(11-2) 200713) #16/#15 BYU(11-2)
200614) #16/#17 USU(11-2) 201215) #16/#17 BYU(11-3) 198516)
#18/#18 Utah(11-2) 200917) #20/#16 BYU(9-2) 197718) #19/#18 USU(9-2)
196019) #22/#17 BYU(10-3) 199020) #22/#18 BYU(10-3) 1989Of the Top 20 seasons all-time for BYU, Utah and USU:BYU - 14Utah - 4USU - 2Bronco - 3 8) 200612) 2007 13) 2009Kyle - 2 2) 200816) 2009
RE:Howard S.Taylorsville, UT"Coulda-woulda-shouldas are
meaningless."Yes, that said BYU would of won most of the that
you are hanging your hat on. Utah has lost to more bottom feeders then BYU.
Look at both team I would agree with Eagle and say BYU would not of done more
then one game better(Colorado) more likely about the same. BYU and Utah are
both good teams. Neither are great teams. BYU has had several Great teams in
the past. Utah has had two Great team much more resent. Throw out the 54-10
game and pretty much all of the last 12 games between BYU and Utah were a toss
up. I think there was another game Utah one easy don't remember if it was
in the last 12 though.
RE:Snack PACOlympus Cove, UtahI was talking BCS teams.
Hondo"How does Roscoe feel about exposing himself on
ESPN?"Who's Roscoe? Utah's latest QB experiment?
HowardI can understand why you would want to ignore reality, but
Utah has been in a BCS conference now for two years and they haven't come
close to having a winning record against BCS competition.Instead,
they've suffered 7 double-digit losses to PAC-12 foes. That is more
indicative of Utah's position relative to other BCS programs than
Kyle's overall record against BCS teams while a member of the MWC.I can also understand why you would ignore the significance of last
year's USU game. BYU fans didn't understand the significance of the
34-31 Utah win in 1993 either; they consoled themselves at the time with the
fact they had clobbered Utah 14 out of 15 times prior to that game.In reality, the 2012 USU game showed just how much USU had improved, while it
showed just how far Utah had fallen. It will become obvious to everyone that
times have changed after the Aggies come in to RES this season and paste a
blowout loss on the overconfident Utes.
One more thing: If anyone wants to see just how much "respect" the Utah
program has among national pundits, then check out the college football page on
ESPN.com where they predict the power rankings in the PAC-12 over the next three
seasons.Where do they rank Utah? Near the bottom at #11, just above
Colorado. It almost seems like the main reason Larry Scott invited Utah and
Colorado was to give the rest of the conference the opportunity to pick up a
couple of easy "BCS wins" every season.
"Comparative scores aren't a great predictor of success against other
teams."Exactly! The best indicator for which team is better is
who wins in a head-to-head game.
"In most cases [opposing coaches] say, 'No, I'm not interested in
playing,' which is a compliment to our program." -- Bronco
mendenmidmajorIs that so? Well, according to Jeff Call..."the Cougars have scheduled teams from nine different conferences,
including the Big Ten, the Big 12, the Atlantic Coast Conference and the Pac-12.
Those featured on upcoming schedules include Virginia, Texas, Wisconsin,
Nebraska, Michigan, Arizona and West Virginia."So I guess those
would be but a small sample of the schools that have absolutely NO respect for
our Indy-WACey little brother.
"BYU is and always has been a 2nd tier power with a broad but shallow church
based following... nothing more... nothing less."What's
funny is when I see people in my neighborhood here in AZ sporting BYU gear and
start a conversation about the upcoming football season and they can't even
name players or basic facts about the program. These are your fervent fans,
your "international" fanbase........
howie"On the field Utah has a winning BCS record and BYU has a
losing BCS record."You're still hiding behind labels. Sorry
to burst your delusional crimson bubble, but beating a losing team doesn't
impress ANYBODY, regardless of whether they wear a "bcs" logo on their
jersey or not.On the field - wins against teams with winning
recordsBronco 25Kyle 25On the field - losses to teams
with losing recordsBronco 4Kyle 6
"Looking at future games that have been announced, the Cougars have
scheduled teams from nine different conferences, including the Big Ten, the Big
12, the Atlantic Coast Conference and the Pac-12. Those featured on upcoming
schedules include Virginia, Texas, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Michigan, Arizona and
West Virginia." You forgot Utah. I guess it's still a sore spot with
the DN staff to put Utah and Pac-12 in the same sentence. lol. I can't
wait to see what happens when Dr Hill tells Holmoe the next series will be a 2
for 1.“lots of conversations, not a lot of takers...”"BYU has plenty of help with scheduling thanks to its broadcast
partner, ESPN."Sounds like byu would be no where as an
independent without ESPN.
@ MyPerspective"Sounds like byu would be no where as an
independent without ESPN."Uhhh, are you just now figuring that
out?? In other news, the sky is blue, the ocean is big, and ute obsession with
everything BYU is alive and well.
MUSS,Roscoe is your beloved head coach. At least that's what
your committed TV partner, ESPN, thought his name was on one of its broadcasts.
"Comparative scores aren't a great predictor of success against other
teams."@Hondo: "Exactly! The best indicator for which team
is better is who wins in a head-to-head game."Sorry, but your
hill logic class failed U. There's absolutely no conclusion that can be
drawn from the first statement that confirms the second statement.The best indicator for which team is better is overall record and ranking,
unless you believe that Team Y(1-10) is better than Team U(10-1) just because
Team Y won the head-to-head.
To MyPerspective's point...What is ESPN going to think about byu after the
end of this season when they've experienced what it's really like to
play a big boy schedule?Go Utes.
DistortedPerspectiveAnd where would U be without the PAC 12?
You've obviously forgotten who televised some of Utah's games during
their first year in the PAC before the PAC net existed.BYU
didn't blindly choose to go Independent.As you'll recall,
BYU announced its 8-year partnership with ESPN the same week it announced its
Independence.BYU's backup plan is BYUtv, which has wider
distribution than the PAC net.What would be your backup plan, KUED?
MyPerspective:"You forgot Utah. I guess it's still a sore spot
with the DN staff to put Utah and Pac-12 in the same sentence".Yep they forgot, just like the rest of the media around the country has
forgotten U."I can't wait to see what happens when Dr Hill
tells Holmoe the next series will be a 2 for 1".I can already
tell you...the rivalry won't happen for a long time. When Utah commands
that kind of respect then maybe Holmoe will talk about it, but that's
certainly not the case now. Who knows maybe that's the hold up to future
Gotta love ute trolls.They want everyone to believe that utah's
2004 and 2008 season and the 3 of 4 over BYU are set in stone indicators that
they are a top tier, power house "BCS" team...All the while
telling BYU fans, on BYU comment boards that their accomplishments for not only
the past 8 years, but the past 28 years don't matter.Fine, here
is the only things that matter, because college football changes every year!1. What did you do last season?2. What did you do in the last
game?3. What did you do in the last head to head competition?and4. Conference Titles.5. National Championships.6.
Individual national awards.Because they last forever.The
reason utah's BCS bowls don't matter is because, well the don't
matter.You can't name the 2002 second and third tier BCS Bowl
winners without looking it up, because no one cares, unless your team was in it.
No one cares who comes in 3rd place, or 4th. That's why ute fans thumping
their chests about it is silly.No one cares outside of utville.
ekute"What is ESPN going to think about BYU after the end of
this season when they've experienced what it's really like to play a
big boy schedule?"You might be very surprised. Stay tuned.It's obvious what the rest of the PAC 12 thinks of U - bottom
dwelling patsies to pad their conference records.
I really don't mind all the Ute comments, but what doesn't make sense
to me is that many of U say U have moved on, and this isn't a rivalry any
more, and U don't care about the Cougs; but yet U continue to comment.
Occassionally, I pop open the Denver Post or LA Times. I have yet to ever see
any of U comment on the articles about the Buffs or the Trojans. Face it, U
can't leave the Cougs alone.
HondoBYU's head coach is BRONCO!Only desperate
BYU-haters from the hill would still be clinging to a typo made by an ESPN
stringer TWO YEARS after the fact.Grow up already!
But seriously folks!Salt Lake City, UTESPN is a great partnership. I
am glad to see that they recognize a quality and a class-act program that they
want to be connected to. The exposure is the best in the state, much better than
the PAC 11+U network.GO COUGS____________PAC 12
also has new contracts with ESPN and Fox.
RE: Howard S.“On the field Utah has a winning BCS record and
BYU has a losing BCS record. Fact...”On the field
BYU has a winning record against the PAC12 (9-8, .529) and Utah has a losing PAC
12 record (11-14, .440). Fact...
Fashionista,You're arguing against your own. I pulled that
statement from one of yours. And your argument is a massive failure because
you've presented a strawman. If head-to-head does not indicate which team
is better, then why even play games?Troll,ESPN
doesn't get Nick Saban's name wrong. BYU is irrelevant and you know
it. Every time you read about Roscoe, it stings because it's a painful
reminder that you're not as important as you think you are.
spokalooAdin, CA@Howard SYes, ND is a 4 for 2 schedule.
BYU has to do that because they are not ND. However, Utah has only been to South
Bend. ND would not agree to play at Utah and never will. Utah is too small of a
fan base, stadium, and lack of tradition. Like it or not, to even get ND to
visit once is a compliment for BYU. Funny how a non-bcs school like BYU can get
ND to visit, but a BCS school like Utah can't (although after next year,
BYU and Utah are back on the same level playing field...no more BCS) Once ND
starts scheduling Washington State, Iowa State and the likes for home and homes,
Utah has hope.________Why does Utah need to schedule ND
to be relevant? They play in a BCS conference. BYU needs ND to get noticed.ND is playing Temple and Navy on the road in the future. They are
non-BCS. So much for your BYU special treatment. With the new ND/ACC agreement,
ND has already said they will play mostly road games in places with high
Messing with Texas,Oh the hypocrisy! You can't leave the Utes
alone, either. And I'm sure that you frequently hit the Denver Post and LA
Times, given how much time you spend on this site.
BYU could have a decent season next year if they could hold onto to their stout
D and provide some good O. Even though they have the toughest schedule in years
and have more BCS opponents than usual, they are still playing some weaker teams
with Mid Tennessee, Virginia, GT, Houston, Idaho St, Utah St. and Nevada. If
they can win all of those and pull out possible win with Texas and Nevada, then
that will be success. Good luck cats. Honestly Utah is probably
not going to have that great of a season. They have a stretch of 8 games
starting at BYU and ending at Oregon that they could possibly lose every single
one. Hopefully they can pull out two or three in there. Winning the BYU game
may be the only thing we'll have to brag about by the end of the season.
Though that game is going to be tough.
@silverstateute"Holmoe knows that to be nationally relevant, BYU
— especially as an independent — needs to have a perennially
attractive schedule." Correction, national relevance does not come from an
attractive achedule. Beating "attractive teams" on the schedule (not
teams from Idaho not named Boise) is what brings national relevance."I couldn't have said it better myself, but you're going to
have a hard time convicing your fellow utah "fans" like lint, chrsitina,
and howie of that fact. They seem to think it is all about your SOS and winning
has nothing to do with it.
It seems like ESPN felt like they had to step in to protect an investment. ESPN
probably didn’t have faith in BYU to make their own schedule and stepped
in to help. I guess ESPN got sick of BYU/New Mexico ST or BYU/Idaho on their
Love being able to see the Cougars play every week on TV here in Seattle.
Let's make it a great year, Cougs!
Hondo"If head-to-head does not indicate which team is better,
then why even play games?"Who was better in 2007, Utah(9-4) or
UNLV(2-10)?Who was better in 2011, Utah(8-5) or Colorado(3-10)?Who was better in 2012, unanimously selected national champion #1
Alabama(13-1) or #5 Texas A&M(11-2)?Who was better in 2012, #2
Oregon(12-1) or #7/#6 Stanford(12-2)?If rankings don't mean
anything, then why do Utah fans beat their chests every time Utah beats a ranked
team?* crickets *
Hondo,You're right, head-to-head is everything. That's why
in 2011 Colorado was a better team than the Utes. It doesn't matter that
the Buffs finished 2-10 and the Utes finished 8-5. It's also proof that
2007 UNLV was the better team than Utah, even though they finished 2-10 and
their only other win was against 2-10 USU.But then there's the
example of 2011 where Alabama won the national championship by beating LSU. The
conundrum is that LSU beat Alabama earlier in the year @ Tuscaloosa! How is it
even possible that LSU could've lost to Alabama after proving they were
better by beating them just a couple months before? Perplexing.
Between the $6M to $8M per game and ESPN, I personally know of several 5 star
recruits coming to BYU because of ESPN. ESPN has made it clear that BYU is
the best program in the US.
"Right now we’re not a top-10 team." -- Tom HolmoeThat
sets the tone for making a schedule. Since they're not a top-10 team, they
don't need to worry about impressing the BCS or Playoff committee. They
can focus on the number one goal of exposure, which means playing in different
parts of the country and parking the Granite Flats HD Truck in exotic locations.
To Hondo:If BYU is so irrelevant as you say, then why do you and
other Ute fans get so extremely excited whenever Utah beats them? Seriously, why
would beating BYU define the entire season for so many Utah fans if BYU is
irrelevant? It's because obviously they are not.And yes, one
team can beat another and not be the better team. The Jazz beat the Spurs this
season, but no one with any sense considers the Jazz the better team... except
maybe just on that day. And so it is with Utah and BYU.There is an
ebb and flow to the rivalry. Utah beat a very close game last year based on
fewer turnovers. Before the current mini-run, BYU beat Utah 3 out of 4 games. It
goes back and forth. Neither "owns" the other as some tout. Chiro:Try to become informed. ESPN never has broadcast any of the
New Mexico or Idaho type games that BYU (like most other big programs) use for
filler. Nor is there any plan to. Did you forget that Utah is playing Weber
State this season?
Hondo writes:"because it's a painful reminder that
you're not as important as you think you are."That's
rich.So let me get this straight. You improperly used the BYU
coaches name to illicit just such a response from a BYU fan, on a BYU comment
Board, on a BYU article, then you want to lecture to a BYU fan that they are not
as important as they think they are?So by you using the improper
name of the coach and being disrespectful, and a BYU fan correcting you, it is a
reflection on the BYU fans about their teams importance? Wow,
can't argue with that logic.
I hate to burst the Utah bubble but I live and work smack in the middle of PAC
and have for 15 years. I can tell you that the rest of your beloved conference
barely know you exist and hardly even talk about you. Theydo however enjoy the
easy wins. Utah makes WSU look like a powerhouse.
OK... attempt #2, toned down.To Hondo:If BYU is so
irrelevant as you contend, then why do you and other Ute fans get so very
excited whenever Utah happens to beat them? Seriously, why would beating BYU
define the entire season for so many Utah fans if they considered BYU
irrelevant? It's because obviously BYU is not.And yes, one team
can beat another and not be the better team. The Jazz beat the Spurs this
season, but no one with any savvy considered the Jazz the better team... except
maybe just on that particular day. And so it is with Utah and BYU.There is an ebb and flow to the ongoing rivalry. Utah beat a very close game
last season based on fewer turnovers. Before the current mini-run, BYU beat Utah
3 out of 4 games. It goes back and forth. Neither "owns" the other as
some fans tout. However, what will some die-hard Utah fans talk
about after both USU and BYU beat them this year and especially if Utah still
can't qualify for a bowl game? It will change the entire nature of these
To Chiro:Had you been paying better attention, you would already
know that ESPN wasn't stepping in to protect anything, since they never
have broadcast any of the New Mexico and Idaho level of games played by BYU, nor
will they in the future. I'm a bit surprised that you
haven't yet noticed that many big teams, even Oklahoma and Notre Dame play
a few gimme games every year. FYI: Utah will be playing Weber State this coming
season. But I'm trying to take a higher road than some of my Utah
counterparts by not mocking them for it.
Chiro"It seems like ESPN felt like they had to step in to
protect an investment. ESPN probably didn’t have faith in BYU to make
their own schedule and stepped in to help."It seems you're
simply grasping at straws.BYU's partnership with ESPN is a
symbiotic relationship (look it up) that was created with the plan already in
place for ESPN to help broker made-for-television games for BYU. What's
good for BYU is good for ESPN.BYU has a long-standing relationship
with ESPN, in fact, the BYU-Pittsburgh game that opened BYU's 1984 National
Championship season was the first nationally televised college football game on
ESPN.It's gotta be tough for jealous Utah fans to finally be
coming to grips with the fact that the World Wide Leader considers BYU to be
such an attractive sports product that ESPN willingly signed BYU to an exclusive
8-year contract.ESPN executives have stated many times since how
thrilled they are to have BYU as a partner.
SoonerUte"Right now we’re not a top-10 team." -- Tom
HolmoeIronically, Utah isn't even considered a top-10
team...in their conference!ESPN's Pac-12 future
Power Rankings1. Oregon2. Stanford3. UCLA4.
Washington5. Oregon State6. USC7. Arizona State8.
Arizona9. California10. Washington State11. Utah12.
Must have struck a chord with you, given that a lot of the comments are directed
at me. I love it! Busta, "I hate to burst the Utah
bubble but I live and work smack in the middle of PAC and have for 15 years. I
can tell you that the rest of your beloved conference barely know you exist and
hardly even talk about you. Theydo however enjoy the easy wins. Utah makes WSU
look like a powerhouse."Your credibility goes right out the
window when you claim to live outside of Utah, but your screen name suggests you
live in SLC. Oops. If you live in SLC everything you said is complete garbage.
If you really live elsewhere, one has to question why you claim you live in
Utah, but really don't. All other "claims" you make are
rubbish.Then you go on to claim that you've lived in PAC
country for 15 years. Utah has been in the PAC for 2. Not sure what your point
is. As for the WSU comment, Utah has beaten WSU both years so I'm not sure
where you're going with that comment and I bet you don't either.
WACpaddled"PAC 12 also has new contracts with ESPN and
Fox."But unlike BYU, who is guaranteed to be on ESPN, Utah has
to wait for the ESPN/FOX/PACnet lottery to find out if they've been found
worthy of an appearance on ESPN.The following BYU games have already
been scheduled for national broadcast - remember, the BYU-ESPN contract only
applies to BYU home games:at Virginia - ESPNUTexas - ESPN2Boise St - ESPNat Notre Dame - NBCat Utah St - CBS SportsNetat Nevada - CBS SportsNetUtah's current broadcast
schedule:Utah St - FOX Sports 1Weber St - PACnetOregon
St - FOX Sports 1UCLA - FOX Sports 1Fortunately for U, the
BYU-Utah game is at LES, so you're guaranteed at least one appearance on
"Utah will be playing Weber State this coming season. But I'm trying to
take a higher road than some of my Utah counterparts by not mocking them for
it."Yet, you brought it up. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
Utah is playing Weber State. There, I said it too. However, it's one
thing to play one or two easy games and quite another to play the soft schedule
BYU has played the past two seasons.I can't wait to watch BYU
play a more rigorous schedule (even though it still won't be as challenging
as Utah's) and lose.
HondoI live near and work with hundreds of Stanford, California,
UCLA, USC, Washington, Oregon and other PAC 12 fans and I can honestly tell you
that Utah is the invisible man in the Bay Area. Except for an
occassional Utah fan wearing a Utah hat or t-shirt with a PAC 12 logo, you
wouldn't know that the Utes are members of the conference.NOBODY even mentions the Utes.On the other hand, I see BYU fans
all the time and often hear BYU sports being discussed, even amongst PAC 12
All you have to do is compare the award winners list to see which program has
the most national recognition.BYU... Doak Walker award, Davey
O'Brian awards, Heisman Award, Maxwell Awards, Outland Trophys.Utah... Home Depot Award to Coach Urban...Luke Staley won more
national awards in one year than the combined total of Utahs players since Utah
started playing football. Ouch... That's gonna leave a mark...
ESPN is embracing BYU for one reason and one reason only they have a big
following which makes for better ratings, Same reason Norte Dame has an
exclusive with NBC. Since I'm a USC fan you guys can biker back and forth
about the BYU vs Utah thing, but just in observation Mendenhall is one of the
worst coaches in D1 and because of that BYU with him at the helm will never play
in a meaningful bowl game.
Dr RushThanks for your opinion. Coming from a "USC fan", I
guess we're supposed to be impressed with your vast football knowledge.btw, what's "biker" got to do with discussing football?
It was no secret that BYU going independent was going to present some challenges
with the schedule. If BYU wins more games it will probably get harder. BYU
will probably have to string together 4-5 really good seasons in a row against
good teams to get over the hump so that the rewards of playing BYU outweigh the
downside of losing to BYU. ESPN has been a good partner. Glad to have them on
Hondo,Would you believe me if I told you that I actually don't
live in Riverton, and actually haven't for almost a decade?Your
head-to-head comment was also a little inaccurate, but people have already
pointed out the weakness in that argument.
CG says... "Ironically, Utah isn't even considered a top-10
team"I don't recall the article mentioning anything about
Utah. My comments certainly didn't. The topic is BYU and their
schedule.As you Cougar fans are drawn in to the usual Utah-BYU
dribble, you ignore the article. You should read it. It lays out for fans very
clearly that BYU is not interested in playing for another national title. Oh
sure, if the game were handed to them, yes they would participate. But those
days are over. Now teams have to earn your a spot in those games, and as both
Tom Holmoe and Bronco indicate, they're not interested in putting together
a schedule that puts them on that path.So, yeah, I totally get why
you'd want to change the subject.
SportsFan said:"HondoIf rankings don't mean
anything, then why do Utah fans beat their chests every time Utah beats a ranked
team?* crickets *"Probably because BYU has a
horrible record against ranked teams the past several years.Go 2013
ranked opponents!*blame the refs*
SportsFan said:".....BYU's partnership with ESPN is a
symbiotic relationship (look it up) that was created with the plan already in
place for ESPN to help broker made-for-television games for BYU. What's
good for BYU is good for ESPN.It's gotta be tough for jealous
Utah fans to finally be coming to grips with the fact that the World Wide Leader
considers BYU to be such an attractive sports product that ESPN willingly signed
BYU to an exclusive 8-year contract.ESPN executives have stated many
times since how thrilled they are to have BYU as a partner."Investors will say anything to make their investment look good. Especially
since BYUs TV ratings were not great last season.Call it what you
want, there is nothing "exclusive" about the ESPN contract. If that was
the case, BYU would be the only college game on the network. It's just an
agreement between BYU and ESPN. There are many games that gained higher TV
ratings than BYU.
BYU sports on TV in Missouri said:"All you have to do is compare
the award winners list to see which program has the most national
recognition.BYU... Doak Walker award, Davey O'Brian awards,
Heisman Award, Maxwell Awards, Outland Trophys.Utah... Home Depot
Award to Coach Urban...Luke Staley won more national awards in one
year than the combined total of Utahs players since Utah started playing
football. Ouch... That's gonna leave a mark..."Compair all
you want. All that fluff you are talking about, has never given BYU an official
conference invite the past 40+ years.
SportsFan said:".....But unlike BYU, who is guaranteed to be on
ESPN, Utah has to wait for the ESPN/FOX/PACnet lottery to find out if
they've been found worthy of an appearance on ESPN."Guaranteed is one thing, winning is another. Something BYU seems to have in
front of a national audience.
NightOwlAmerica:"Call it what you want, there is nothing
"exclusive" about the ESPN contract. If that was the case, BYU would be
the only college game on the network. It's just an agreement between BYU
and ESPN. There are many games that gained higher TV ratings than BYU".Exclusive means ESPN has exclusive rights to BYUs home games. It also
means BYU is the ONLY program in America that has a PARTNERSHIP with ESPN, not
just a contract. That's what Sports Fan was saying (if not he can correct
me). Who knows what you're talking about above, but ESPNs contract with BYU
is indeed exclusive. If that WEREN'T the case anyone else would have a
partnership with them, and any other network could compete with them for home
rights to BYU games.
BYU will win 9 gmes this year... Utah may not win 3... If Utah played BYU's
schedule this year, they would not win 3...
Who needs ESPN when you have blow torch networks like PAC-12 Network and Fox
Heisman, Maxwell, Outland, Walker, O'Brian and Baugh trophies, are nothing
more than fluff to Ute Nation?National Championship, Legendary HOF
Coach, 23 Conference Championships, College Hall of Famers, Consensus
All-Americans, etc.. More fluff?Stands to reason for Ute fan, what U
will never attain, you can never really fully appreciate.BYU's
achievements constitute a "Legacy". A resume, if you will, of
generations of achievement.BYU has checked the necessary boxes, over
decades, to become a National Brand and Legacy school. And Utah, despite
it's backdoor approach, has not.While taking 50 years to win
it's first Outright Conference Championship, Utah had 6 good years. and now all they have to boast of is a fraternity patch. Now the
rubber has met the road and U are the road. Your "Mask of False
Bravado" has been removed and U have taken Wazzu's place as your
Conference doormat.BYU will march to the beat of "their"
drummer....Because.........THEY CAN!As for BYU's
exclusive deal with ESPN, only Notre Dame has such a deal with a "Major"
Network..BYU plays on a Major Network nearly every game. While Utah is
rarely "chosen" at all.
@nightowl"Guaranteed is one thing, winning is another."Good point 5-7 and 7-11. Losers.
@skywalker Palo Alto, CA"On the other hand, I see
BYU fans all the time and often hear BYU sports being discussed, even amongst
PAC 12 fans."Would that be in the ward house? lol.Tell the truth, outside of the LDS community, is byu discussed any more than
ekute"Tell the truth, outside of the LDS community, is BYU
discussed any more than Utah?"Much more!
If there was an undefeated Oklahoma and an undefeated BYU, the voters would get
byu #1 based on the ESPN contract.
SoonerUte"As you Cougar fans are drawn in to the usual Utah-BYU
dribble, you ignore the article. You should read it. It lays out for fans very
clearly that BYU is not interested in playing for another national
title."It's interesting that someone who doesn't
understand the difference between "dribble" and "drivel" would
be lecturing Cougar fans on not understanding what the article said.From the article:"Holmoe knows that to be nationally relevant,
BYU — especially as an independent — needs to have a perennially
attractive schedule."We’re aiming to have a really good
schedule that will look good and feel good, where the pundits and the people
that are going to be determining who goes to the playoffs feel that it’s a
good enough schedule to have a great season," he said.Building
BYU's program and schedule to the point that it's considered good
enough for BYU to be invited to the playoffs (and hence, compete for a national
championships) are clearly the ultimate goal Holmoe and BYU are aiming for.
If there was an undefeated Utah and an undefeated byu, Utah would be ranked
above byu because of our Pac12 schedule and affiliation.
ekuteThere's little point in speculating about undefeated
seasons when U can't even beat a conference foe with a winning record.
Rockwell, consider that BYU's primary goal is exposure.From the
article: "the renewed emphasis on strength of schedule... will help the
Cougars set up more high-profile games with opponents from all over the nation,
Holmoe said."Holmoe hopes that teams with national championship
desires will beef up their non-conference schedule using a team like BYU. In
other words, Holmoe sees BYU as a stepping stone for OTHER teams to get to the
playoffs. Its a great role for BYU which gets exposure (primary goal) for the
program. But if BYU upsets too many, then the major teams will quit scheduling
BYU, and the exposure drops.Its a difficult balance. BYU needs to
beat enough teams to look like a strong mid-major, so that they look attractive
to a major team's non-conference schedule. If BYU scheduled too many
majors (required for an NC run), they might lose too many games, and negatively
affect strength of schedule for the major teams. Thus my conclusion that BYU is
not really interested in an NC run. Short term glory would be bad for long term
@deductive reasoningI was just having fun in response to Mr. Bass.
Why didn't you respond the same to his comment?Go Utes.
SoonerUteLOL at your spin.BYU isn't just trying to
help other teams look good, BYU's goal is to become even more nationally
relevant themselves.I know that's a hard pill for the BYU
haters to swallow, but BYU is embarking on a course to increased national
relevance that our little friends on the hill could only dream of.BYU has never shied away from playing the big boys. The Cougars have been
playing OOC opponents like Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Miami, Florida St,
Penn St, USC, UCLA, Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Alabama, Georgia, Wisconsin,
and Notre Dame (many of them at home) for decades.BYU -
IndependentUtah - dependent
SoonerUteYou're not making any sense.If BYU's
primary goal, as you say, is exposure, then what could possibly bring more
exposure than winning another national championship?Playing big name
teams on the national stage = good exposureBeating big name teams on the
national stage = better exposureWinning another national championship in
the playoffs = best exposure
DuckhunterHighland, UT@nightowl"Guaranteed is one
thing, winning is another."Good point 5-7 and 7-11. Losers.___________Right! It's fun to be on TV. But losing
against ranked teams on a continual basis does wonders for ratings.San Jose St. owns BYU 10-6 all time. Thanks ESPN!
deductive reasoningArlington, VASoonerUteLOL at your
spin.BYU isn't just trying to help other teams look good,
BYU's goal is to become even more nationally relevant themselves.I know that's a hard pill for the BYU haters to swallow, but BYU is
embarking on a course to increased national relevance that our little friends on
the hill could only dream of.BYU has never shied away from playing
the big boys. The Cougars have been playing OOC opponents like Texas, Oklahoma,
Texas A&M, Miami, Florida St, Penn St, USC, UCLA, Washington, Oregon,
Stanford, Alabama, Georgia, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame (many of them at home) for
decades.BYU - IndependentUtah - dependent___________What does national relevance mean to you?BYU is
dependent on all of D1 football to schedule games. More at risk for cancelled
contracts as we have already seen.Utah belongs to a conference where a
majority of their schedule is made each season.
RE: WACPaddingOurSchedule"San Jose St. owns BYU 10-6 all time.
Thanks ESPN!"You've gotta love it when trolls have to reach
back 50-60 years to find a slam. While you're at it, what about
Utah's all-time records versus the Salt Lake City YMCA? I'll help...
they own you 5-1 all-time. Have a nice day.
Re:ekuteAgree. I have lived all over the country and outside of the
ward houses, most people know nothing about BYU. Many know they are located in
Utah and confuse them with the U. Now the one billion fans in China, I cannot
speak as to their likes.
WiscougarfanRiver Falls, WIRE: WACPaddingOurSchedule"San Jose St. owns BYU 10-6 all time. Thanks ESPN!"You've gotta love it when trolls have to reach back 50-60 years to find a
slam. While you're at it, what about Utah's all-time records versus
the Salt Lake City YMCA? I'll help... they own you 5-1 all-time. Have a
nice day.____________LOL! Look no further than last
season. You know, the prime time game on ESPN where BYU lost to San Jose St.
What an investment!Have more cheese with your whine!
ImaCaMan Oceanside, CAThanks for the comment. I
didn't want to accuse anybody of being less than truthful(specially not a
byu "fan").Go Utes.
ImaCaMan"I have lived all over the country and outside of the
ward houses, most people know nothing about BYU."Then you
obviously don't get out much wherever you've lived.------------WACpaddledYes, let's look at last
season. The Utes were denied a bowl game because they couldn't beat the
only WAC team on their schedule. Only two WAC championships during 37 years in
the conference. Only one bowl game during your first 30 years in the conference.
Not a single AP Top 25 finish in your first 100 hundred years of football. You
were owned by the WAC, and still are. Nothing more than a WACish team wearing at
PAC 12 logo on your jersey.
WACpaddledCloser to home, the Utes are owned...by
Washington 0-8by ASU 6-18by Oregon 8-18by UCLA 2-9by USC
3-8by Oregon St 6-10by Colorado 25-31by California 4-5by
Stanford 2-3Since you haven't beaten a single PAC 12 team with
a winning record since joining the conference, it may be time to reconsider
joining a conference in which you're so hopelessly out classed across the
board in every sport except women's gymnastics.
scottAlpine, UTWACpaddledYes, let's look at
last season. The Utes were denied a bowl game because they couldn't beat
the only WAC team on their schedule. Only two WAC championships during 37 years
in the conference. Only one bowl game during your first 30 years in the
conference. Not a single AP Top 25 finish in your first 100 hundred years of
football. You were owned by the WAC, and still are. Nothing more than a WACish
team wearing at PAC 12 logo on your jersey.__________Why
is BYU scared to play Colorado? Probably because they are 3-8-1 all time against
them.Well, you gotta do what you gotta do to preserve that WAC Legacy that
BYU fans are so proud of.Nothing more than a WACish team wearing a ??????
logo on your jersey.
WACpaddled"Why is BYU scared to play Colorado?"LOL!Now you're just frantically and emotionally making stuff
up.What makes you think BYU would be scared to play a team that the
Cougars have beaten 3 of the last 4 times they've played and haven't
lost to since a 7-9 setback in Boulder SIXTY-FIVE years ago???In
their last two meetings, BYU dominated Colorado in Boulder 41-20 and beat the
Buffs in the Freedom Bowl 20-17?btw, regarding that PAC 12
Washington team that owns the Utes 0-8,BYU is 4-4 versus the
Huskies, including three straight wins during the BCS era.BYU is
obviously much more competitive against the PAC 12, than that WACish program on
RE: WACPaddingOurSchedule"Why is BYU scared to play Colorado?
Probably because they are 3-8-1 all time against them."I repeat
that your head-to-head slams are indeed pretty weak. BYU has won six of their
last eight against San Jose (2-1 since 1970, and their last lost was to a ranked
SJSU), and has won three of the last four against Colorado (2-0 since 1970).
Utah, on the other hand, has won three of their last 14 against
Colorado (1-1 since 1970), and is 14-12-2 all-time against WAC powerhouse Idaho
(0-1 since 1970). Of course these are all meaningless stats, but
are simply meant to show how easy it is to make stats say whatever you want them
to. Is BYU scared of Utah's new rival Colorado? Of course not, they would
destroy them. Is BYU scared of San Jose? No, but they didn't expect such
a great SJSU team last year. Obviously BYU does not shy away from great
competition. Check out their schedule this year: Texas, Notre Dame,
Wisconsin.Utah, on the other hand, dropped BYU in favor of Fresno
State. Which team is scared of who?
Utah and byu are not scared of each other, nor is either team scared of any
other team.Dr. Hill dropped byu from his schedule because he can. He
stuck it to you. Simple as that.Utah is in a position to set the
terms for any future meetings, and byu has the free agency to accept or
decline.byu is not in a position to make any demands on Utah.Go Utes.
ESPN is the best network when it comes to college football. BYU is lucky to
have such a partner. Plus ESPN is on Direct tv, which is the best satellite or
cabel company for sports. I would live the see the PAC 12 get a deal done but I
won't drop Direct tv just to see PAC 12 games. The trade off isn't
worth it. Maybe if the Utes could start winning I might have a change of heart.
For now I'll take BYU on ESPN and direct tv.
ekute"BYU is not in a position to make any demands on
Utah."And neither is Utah in a position to make any demands on
BYU.BYU built its legacy without any help from Utah, and the Cougars
will continue building on that legacy with or without Utah being included in the
picture.If the Utes want to run away and hide from the rivalry, the
Cougars will be just fine. It's obviously that to soothe your fragile egos,
U need us much more than we need U.
@scenic viewI didn't say Utah was in a position to make demands
on byu.Neither team needs the other...but...any future meetings will be on
Utah's terms.Sooth you're own fragile ego by pretending
that Utah is running from a 20 year domination, 8 out of the last 11 and 3 years
in a row. lol.Rumor has it that holmoe is giving up on independent
football and focusing on an international soccer team. lol.Go Utes.
ekute"Neither team needs the other...but...any future meetings
will be on Utah's terms."Any future meetings will be on
mutually agreed upon terms, which means they'll either be home-and-home or
NOTHING!During the Bronco/kyle era, Bronco has finished with a
better record and higher ranking (which includes SOS) than kyle 5 of 8
seasons.13 of the last 16 games have been decided by a touchdown or
less in the final minutes of the game or in overtime. Any delusional
utah fan who believes that proves any sort of domination by the utes is only
Any byu "fan" that can't admit to head to head domination is in
deep delusional denial and is only fooling themselves. Rumor has it
that construction has started to turn les it into an international rugby and
soccer stadium. lol.
Utah might settle for 2 games at RES and 1 in Canada if byu pays all expenses
and mr. hall wears a Block U Hat and a Drum And Feather sweat shirt. lol.
Will the Cougars ever get another shot at beating Iowa State for the first time?
iNKSpotWill the Utes ever get another shot at beating Westminster
College for the first time?ekuteThe Utes can't even
beat WAC teams; what makes U think they could compete in the CFL?
Cougsndawgs West Point , UTMy favorite quote:"The
great teams don't back away from anybody"--Tom HolmoeHopefully
Chris Hill heard that and saw it for the jab at Utah it unintentionally was...or
was it?----------I hope Chris Hill heard that at started
LOL, then pointed Holmoe to great teams like:"Notre Dame will
not be playing Michigan from 2015 to 2017. The school informed Michigan in
September that it is exercising its three-year out clause and is taking a hiatus
from the rivalry game series that was first played in 1887.""The rivalry began in 1894, when Texas blanked A&M 38-0, and continued
through the 2011 season. [The rivalry took a hiatus in 2012]."
Uteology:Let me get this straight. Are you seriously suggesting
Utah's situation is similar to ND/Michigan, or Texas/TAMU? First of all
Michigan isn't NDs only rival, and they are keeping their biggest rival on
the schedule, USC. Having to schedule 5 ACC games has caused them to evaluate
ALL their rivalries and look for solutions (hardly the case with Utah and their
ONLY rival...one could argue Utah state but I don't believe Utah really
thinks the aggies are a rival). Second, there's bad blood
between Texas and TAMU and neither side is willing to budge for the other. Thats
the reason for the stoppage in their rivalry, not because theyre great teams
"backng away from each other". Last I checked, there isn't bad
blood between Holmoe and Hill...they both "want to get it done".
You're comparison is obviously apples to oranges.
@CougsndawgsYes I am seriously suggesting that historical rivalries
mean nothing when it comes to conference realignment regardless of the teams
involved. It has NOTHING to do with "The great teams don't
back away from anybody". I know it's hard for BYU fans to understand
this concept specially since we canceled the series.
Outside of things pertaining strictly to a Rivalry [i.e., bragging-rights,
securing our annual gimme W against 2-Star byu, etc.], 2-Star byu offers us ZERO
benefit, ZERO.A school such as FSU, however, benefits us
significantly, recruiting-wise, which was the primary reason they were
strategically-targeted for a series, particularly with our return-game scheduled
for 2015, when we're at USC/UCLA at home and, while still pending
confirmation of our 2-YR rotating North schedule, a game against Stanford would
also be at home. Unsure about CAL, although should they return to our schedule,
our 2012 game against them was at home.My point is, in addition to
being a competitive program/team, they're located in fertile
recruiting-ground and it offers yet another incentive/selling-point for us in
being able to play another game in front of family/friends.Notching
our annual gimme W against 2-Star byu is rapidly becoming less-and-less
meaningful, especially when considering the big picture and the actual impact of
the schools we schedule [i.e., Michigan for obvious reasons]!
AZUTE1"A school such as FSU, however, benefits us significantly,
recruiting-wise,..."bwaaahaha!Fresno State has TWO
lifetime AP Top 25 finishes - #24 1992 and #22 2004.For a program
like Utah, which only has FIVE lifetime AP Top 25 finishes themselves, that
probably sounds pretty "competitive".Of course, we all know
that your recruiting spin is nothing but a frantic and emotional smoke screen.
The ONLY reason the Utes dropped BYU to play FSU, was because Hill didn't
think the Utes were good enough to handle playing Michigan and BYU in the same
season.In Chris Hill's own words: "What we have
to do is make sure we don’t come close to overscheduling," he said.In Hill’s mind, playing both Michigan and BYU in the same years
would have put the Utes in that situation."I can’t expect
us to play 11 really, really difficult games in a season," he said.Hill wasn't talking about Utah's annual Big Sky opponent, in those
11 really, really difficult games, and he mentioned 11 only because he
didn't want imply that WSU and Colorado are really just patsies, which
clearly, they are.
Uteology:"It has NOTHING to do with "The great teams don't
back away from anybody". I know it's hard for BYU fans to understand
this concept specially since we canceled the series".Yes it does
have to do with "not backng away from anybody" as evidenced by other
rivalries (outside of ND and Texas) that have been maintained despite difficult
schedules in different conferences. I've already established why ND and
Texas/TAMU have had to stop, if only for awhile. It's actually a very easy
concept to understand for BYU fans...Utah doesn't want to play another
difficult opponent (which uteanymous so thoroughly pointed out using Hills own
word). You don't see Georgia backing down from GT, or Florida backing down
from FSU. Or Kentucky backing down from Louisville....every team that
doesn't have the issues ND and Texas have, has maintained their non
conference rivalries. In the end, I don't care...as AZUTE wants to say
about BYU, Utah does absolutely nothing for BYU in terms of national respect,
recruiting or anything else...I do enjoy the rivalry, but it wouldn't hurt
BYUs brand not having it.
Why do comments always down downing the Y or the Utes. They're both good
schools. They both have fans that we all would like to ignore because of their
obnoxious comments. Seriously I like to see all of the Utah schools do well
against good opponents. Utah has a recruiting advantage which in the long run
will probably make them a stronger school. However the Y is starting to get
some interest from recruits not LDS which should help them get stronger as well.
I enjoy good football and basketball especially when played here in Utah. I
hope the schedules don't get so strong that we can't compete.