History has shown you do not need to waste a high first round pick on a point
guard.IN fact no true point guard selected in the lottery in over
last decade (and probably much longer) has won a championship. You
can get a more than adequate point guard late in the first round.High picks should be used only for centers, shooting guards and small
forwards in that order,Power forwards only need to be good role
players that play defense and rebound, any offense is only needed to keep the
other teams honest (see rambis, rodman, caffery among many others). Scoring
power forwards should be a help and not the focus of the offense, but by and
large they have never lead a team to a championship (barkley, malone, mcginnis,
etc) without a center and a shooting guard or small forward to help.
@Jazzsmackyou said over the last decade...and when it comes to power
forwards you mentioned barkley and malone...i think you need to be consistent on
your argument...and you cant say that History has shown you...unless...its the
entire history of the NBA...you took out a sample where in the guys are still
playing and may still have a shot...if you say over the last decade in the
following years...your data is inconsistent and changing...i bet you can't
say that for the entire history of the NBA...because well...Jason Kidd won a
title...Magic....Isiah....a lot of PGs won a title...for the PF part...Pau gasol
was drafted as a PF/C...and Plays as a PF...he won twice
@Jazzsmack...another thing...Dirk Nowitzki...won a
championship...and of course...almost all team needs a C a SG and a SF and a
PG...this is why its a team sport...you can just have one guy...even MJ has
Horace Grant and Pippen on his first three rings...and have Rodman Harper Kukoc
and Pippen on his second 3 rings...if the best player in the draft at the
current draft position is something to live by....so if Magic and/or Isiah
Thomas was on board you wouldnt draft them right...by your own reasoning...
I agree with both of you to an extent. Though your argument is flawed by using
selective data, you are correct in that PG's chosen mid to late 1st round
are sufficient (however, we jazz fans have dealt with "sufficient" in
every role for some time now). As for Kakashi's argument, he is correct in
saying that there are MANY who are winning championships that were selected
early on...Tony Parker is another one to consider that was chosen early on. As
much as the Lottery Picks are unpredictable, the history of the NBA tells us
that is where the majority of stars are found.
Tim Duncan is a fairly decent PF who has led his team to championships.
@jazzsmackTo say point guards taken in the lottery over the last 10 years
haven't won any championships is not a very strong argument. Teams choosing
players in the lottery are doing so usually for 1 reason, they're not very
good teams. So to expect lottery picking teams to be winning championships is
not realistic. Since 2000 there are only 6 teams that have won the championship
including LA, San Antonio, Miami, Boston, Dallas, and Detroit. These teams were
not lottery picking teams when they were winning championships.The
Jazz however were a bad lottery team when they chose Derron Williams in the
lottery and they went from a lottery team to the Western Conference finals
either that year or the year after I believe. So a great point guard can make a
difference but I don't think there any players in this lottery that have
D-Will type ability.
The reality is that almost no team wins when their star/scoring player is a PG.
There are very few exceptions. Of course there are some but they are unusual.
Long story short we were not going to win a championship with D-Will as long as
he was THE guy.Bigs and shooting guards are primarily where the
dominance takes place. LeBron is the exception although at 260 he is a a big
dude but not quite as tall as a traditional big.I would love to get
Carter-Williams. Defense and distributor is what we need with Hayward, Favors,
Kanter, and Burkes. They can all score the ball. Get someone who can do a good
job stopping dribble penetration.
Pau gasol, duncan, nowitzke, all 7 footers. not 6'8" and Duncan
plasy center offensively and so does gasol. There is difference between a 7 foot
post player and someone shorter like milsap or malone who couldn't play
defense above the waist and for his size and strength was an underachiever in
rebounding.the only points guards mentioned was a 6'9"
guard who really wasn't a true point guard, and isaiah and magic where
drafted 30 years ago or more. kidd was an old minor part.Isaish also
has star shooting guard in dumas, as solid center and defensive player in
lambier, and the type of PF I descibesd in buck william and then they had a
pretty good supporting cast.But the jazz have never had Isaiah or
magic or jordon or kobe type player who could make things happen when you need
it. instead they had benoit or russel to pass to, and we all know how that
worker out.Th jazz only went to finals when they has decent shooting
guard, Horny, and even then he was never utilized in the offense.Sloan chased away shandon anderson because he wanted to be utilized more.
i hope they get someone good...i do think Cody Zeller would be good...i think we
have Big Al and Paul Millsap due to bird rights to trade...think about it...3
athletic young bigs in Favors Zeller and Kanter...that's an anchor right
there...and you get decent wings with Hayward and Alec...the problem now is
outside shooting...i would want Alec to accept a 6th man role...so that we would
still have Foye as a deep threat...and sign Calderon to man the point...probably
take Larkin or Schroeder...but i still would want to have a lottery pick next
year as it is stacked...and who knows we might win the Higgins
sweepstakes...time and opportunities would dictate as to which direction this
group would go...as well as the coach that would guide them...if its a mediocre
coach...then to mediocrity it is...
@The Truthi dont think Jason Kidd had a minor role on that Dallas
Championship...i think his play was crucial...he is also one of the guys who
defended lebron in that series...also...why are you mentioning 6'8"?
Power Forwards are usually at least 6'9...well Sir Charles is like 6'5
or even shorter...Kevin Garnett won his championship...but with Paul Pierce and
Allen....and all of your arguments becomes moot...because...as you say...you
cant win with just one great player...this is a team sport...this was displayed
by the Billups led Pistons....if you cant get great stars...you can get good
enough players that can play team ball...the difference now is...the coach...you
need a winning system...that everyone needs to commit to....we can talk about
this all day on what positions are needed...but at the end of the day...even if
you have Lebron...but you lack the team effort to win...you will never win a
championship...that's the difference between champions and regular
teams...their commitment to the team...to the system...and for each other...
@the Truthyou can Add Walt Frazier...to your PG list...Oscar
Robertson....Nate "Tiny" Archibald...come on....yes...these guys are of
ages ago...but that doesn't mean history wont repeat itself....it takes a
team effort to win as i have emphasize on my previous comment...but just because
you drafted a PG high in the draft means you are doomed to fail...also for
PF...Willis Reed and Moses
I would take MCW in a heartbeat if he is still available. Even trade up for him
if we need to. He is a pass-firs guy who can play defense. I think that is
exactly what we need.