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Like father, like brother: Fred Whittingham Jr. followed family's footsteps to the University of Utah

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  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    May 30, 2013 6:42 p.m.

    Glad to have you on board Fred!! Choose The Red!!

    Go Utes!!

  • thebigsamoan Richmond, VA
    May 31, 2013 6:54 a.m.

    Glad to know BYU has deep roots in the Ute program! And despite the ugliness that rears its head much too often in the rivalry, one thing is crystal clear...the two programs are inseparably connected. It's unfortunate that fans of both sides have added hate and bitterness in the mix. Even more unfortunate is it's happening dead smack in the midst of a people raised in a faith where love, compassion, tolerance, and kindness are strongly emphasized and taught.

    Good luck to the Whittinghams! Glad BYU played a part in your football lives! Just sad to hear there's much disdain now in your family towards a program you once loved.

    Go Cougs! And best of luck to the Utes too!

  • COUGARNATE Lyman, WY
    May 31, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    I have to admit this one really hurts me. I was a middle school kid playing full back for Star Valley Jr. High and my favorite BYU player was Freddy Whittingham (as Jay Monsen called him). I even liked him more than Ty Detmer. I don't like the color he wears now, but I would like to wish all the luck in the world to my football hero when I was in middle school.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    May 31, 2013 9:23 a.m.

    Coach Whit's six recruiting classes before the PAC 12 announcement had an average ranking of 53.

    The three recruiting classes since the PAC 12 announcement have an average ranking of 36.

    That overall talent improvement is going to begin to show itself on the field this year.

    Thanks PAC 12 and thanks Fred Whit Jr.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 31, 2013 10:08 a.m.

    Great story, thanks Dirk and DN!

  • RationalPlease Spanish Fork, UT
    May 31, 2013 11:05 a.m.

    I agree totally with thebigsamoan. I'd love to see Utah win the Pac10, except for all the garbage SOME Ute fans would throw at BYU. I'd also love to see BYU make it to a "BCS" game, but would also hate the garbage SOME BYU fans would throw at Utah. You don't make yourself better by putting someone else down. Go BYU, go Utes--except when you play BYU.

  • wazzup Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 31, 2013 1:32 p.m.

    The Whittingham's may have great football minds but they lack class..err...common sense. Fred just burned any bridge of ever being associated with BYU. He owes his football career in part to the opportunities BYU and Lavell provided for him. To offer the 'disdain' comment wasn't very bright or classy.

    Better start winning in the Pac12 or you will be moving out of Utah for your next job.

    Does this surprise anyone though? They blamed a fan confrontation on the BYU fan when in fact it was the Whittingham kid who took a phone away and threw it. Classy!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 31, 2013 2:47 p.m.

    Disdain?
    Really Fred?

    You and your kids, disdain BYU?
    They gave you nothing Fred?

    Really, it's all or nothing to you?
    No room for any warm and fuzzies for your alma mater?

    You can't respect your life with BYU?
    That's all just blotted out now?

    I disdain myself for wasting one ounce of emotion while investing in you and your family during the time that BYU put food on your family's table.

    And BYU also provided everyone of you a free education, from a University ranked #68 by USNWR compared to the U's ranking of #127..

    Bush league Fred...Bush league.
    Count your blessings Fred....name them one by one.
    Ingratitude ain't cool man.

    Maybe Max Hall was right after all.

  • stateofutah1 Davis County, UT
    May 31, 2013 2:49 p.m.

    Good. We have a disdain for Kyle.

  • Utes22 SPRINGVILLE, UT
    May 31, 2013 4:37 p.m.

    @ wazzup, Bluto, & stateofutah1

    Why so touchy? Fred never said he had a disdain for BYU. The article actually says that he has very fond memories of his time at BYU, as I am sure Kyle does. He was talking about his kids who have grown up with Utah as their Grandfather, Uncle, and now Father were/all on the staff. I would dare say most kids would have the same feeling regardless of the school. Before slamming Fred for his comments you may want to be sure yours don't show your own disdain towards Utah, both are great institutions.

    It's nice to have Fred Whittingham on staff and his presence has been felt. @Howard S gave a great example of the greater recruiting success the Utes have had over the past few years.
    Good luck this summer in preperation for the new season,
    Go Utes!!!

  • Obama10 SYRACUSE, UT
    May 31, 2013 4:54 p.m.

    As a Cougar fan, I still try to root for Utah when they are in bowl games or not playing BYU since they still represent my state, but it is getting harder and harder. To hear that Fred's family has disdain for BYU, is discouraging. I understand that the family has moved on, and understand where the paychecks come from, but I don't know why the hatred has to come with it. Why couldn't it be, "we like BYU except when they play Utah". Just like my conversation with a Ute fan on the plane last week. I told him, I want Utah to do well in every game except one. His response, "I hope BYU loses every game." Like it or not, Max Hall was right.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 31, 2013 4:57 p.m.

    wazzup, Bluto, stateofutah1...grow up kids.

    It's not the journey that matters it's where you end up. The Wittingham's are total class and have made Utah a great football program. The players that come here learn that their education is important and it shows in the graduation rates. Utah recruits are indeed fortunate to be under the tutelage of Kyle and Fred. So glad you are Utah men in every respect!

    Go Utes!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 31, 2013 9:00 p.m.

    “We try to facilitate that kind of a conversation — because if a kid is interested in how many different helmets or how many different jerseys we have, or how many HEISMAN TROPHIES we have, or how many NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS, we’re going to lose those sales battles to Oregon and USC and teams like that,” Fred said.

    Hilarious!

    Let's see Fred, your very own alma mater (BYU) already has a Heisman Memorial Trophy and a Unanimous National Championship... or did you blot that out as well?....

    Along with Outlands, Davey O'Brian's, Sammy Baugh's, Doak Walker and Maxwell Trophies....

    You sure had better find another sales pitch for your Utes, because, there is only one team in Utah with an actual Legacy and National Brand and it's BYU not Utah.

    Slick advertising won't fool anybody into viewing Utah as anything other than a Conference bottomfeeder.

    Where are Utah's 7 Hall of Famers?
    And 18 Top-25 finishes?
    And 16 Consensus All-Americans?
    And Super Bowl and NFL MVP's?

    Ouch!

    As for me and my house, we'll always appreciate those who proudly wore the Y and never forget from whence they came.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    May 31, 2013 10:48 p.m.

    Hey Bluto...

    Here's an interesting factoid to consider...

    Since the announcement of the PAC 12 for Utah and indy for BYU, Utah's average recruiting class has been ranked 36th and BYU's average recruiting class has been ranked 64th.

    It seems that highly ranked recruits are buying what Freddy Whit is selling and rejecting the faded legacy and mythical national brand of BYU as a mid-major indy.

    Oh, and as for gratitude... how many BCS programs besides Utah have been willing to offer indy/BYU a four game home/home series?

    How about a little gratitude man... because ingratitude ain't cool.

  • yesterday Salt Lake City, UT
    June 1, 2013 1:35 a.m.

    team of family guy and yes-man. we need new blood

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 1, 2013 8:23 a.m.

    Bluto
    Your list of byu's shining accomplishments from last century loses more luster with each passing year. How many #1 NFL draft pick has byu had this century? Ever? How many byu players in the NFL? byu's recruiting classes get worse while the it's 12-15 year run of success with soft schedules is a distant memory for old timers and not even in the consciousness of the young. lol.

    The future of football in Utah is THE University of Utah and the Wittinghams have been and continue to be a huge factor in that bright outlook.

  • ute alumni paradise, UT
    June 1, 2013 9:59 a.m.

    Childish. It is a fact that byu has the better more quality athletic programs.....okay aside from women's gymnastics. How many seats does re stadium hold?

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 1, 2013 10:13 a.m.

    little Howie

    Here's the last part of your factoid that you conveniently omitted...

    "... Utah's average recruiting class has been ranked 36th and BYU's average recruiting class has been ranked 64th."

    Which proves that BYU can do more with less as BYU continues to outrank Utah in the polls and as U stay home for the holidays bowl-less.

    LOL

  • sidmiser Mobile, AL
    June 1, 2013 11:08 a.m.

    It is really sad to see that so much animosity and jealousy ecists between the fanbases of these two exceptional universities. As a member of the Church I happen to pull for both schools, but since having had two children attend BYU I tend to pull for them. Having said that, I have a son-in-law that attended Utah and played baseball for the Utes. I promise you though, that I don't get bent out of shape when Utah wins. I sort of understand the strong rivalry as I'm a Bama fan and we do not hold Auburn in high regard.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 1, 2013 11:25 a.m.

    @Howard S. and My perspective

    Only Coat-Tailing Cellar-Dwellers argue recruiting ratings and draft picks.
    It's hard to boast of...being a bottom-feeder, no bowl and losing records.

    I'll state it again....Pay attention!
    The majority of the players in the NFL and College are 3 stars or less.

    Steve Young, Super Bowl and NFL MVP, only had two D-1 offers. (not a blue-chipper)
    Jerry Rice, (not a blue-chipper) played at Mississippi Valley State...student-body 2,500.
    Dennis Pitta-no stars
    Jacoby Jones...no stars
    Paul Krueger...2 stars
    Kaepernick-3 stars
    Flacco-3 stars

    The Starting Quarterbacks in the Super Bowl were from those Hotbeds of College Football, known as Delaware and Nevada.

    As for touting ones Legacy....

    Those who have one......DO!

    Those who don't have one.........DON'T!

    Like BYU, even Colorado has a Heisman Trophy Winner and a National Championship.

    So you see, Utah fans.....
    Your rival of yesteryear (BYU) and today's rival (Colorado) both have something U never will.....
    A National Championship and a Heisman Trophy winner.

    Reach that Elite Plateau, and then U guys can pop off.

  • Thidder MAPLETON, UT
    June 1, 2013 11:36 a.m.

    Nepotism is alive and well at the Athletic Dept.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 1, 2013 1:36 p.m.

    LOVE what part the W family plays within our program. They certainly know how to keep the pharmacy business down there in utah county operating at full-throttle, ANNUALLY.

    BTW, byu is currently 2-3 against The PAC-12, BUT they've been utterly destroyed AT HOME by the only 2 teams which finished the season with a winning record....Good times.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    June 1, 2013 2:42 p.m.

    bluto

    Let's look at your “Elite Plateau” that you are saying BYU has reached as opposed to Utah. In 1984 BYU beat a schedule that included mostly bad WAC teams. They only beat one ranked team, Pittsburgh. And that team ended up going just 3-7-1. BYU played a very average 6-6 Michigan team in a minor bowl. But since no other team went undefeated, BYU backed itself into a “national championship” by default. The rules then immediately changed.

    Fast forward to 2008. Utah beat four nationally ranked teams, including Alabama, a team that had been ranked #1 for 1 ½ months. The big conferences, however, would not allow a non-BCS conference team to be awarded the national championship. Utah even defeated Alabama by a greater margin than did Florida, the “national champions”. And Florida had one loss.

    Utah's claim on a national championship in 2008 is far greater than BYU's was in 1984.

    Concerning the Heisman, it is merely a popularity contest. Detmer put together impressive stats beating up on bad teams.

    Neither of these points supports your claim that BYU is "elite" or that Utah is not.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 1, 2013 3:39 p.m.

    @GoRed--

    You forgot to mention Detmer's/byu's performance immediately following his Heisman Trophy presentation against Hawaii....EPIC....But they'll never acknowledge the weak competition they faced back then/continue to face today, although 2013 is a slight upgrade in SOS, yet still ripe w/weeks-off.....TYPICAL.

    BTW, I mentioned byu's record against The PAC-12 merely in response to byu fan's Ad Nauseam reference to ours.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    June 1, 2013 7:06 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    Very well said. There are actually two things of note during Detmer's Heisman campaign of 1990. After it was announced that he won the Heisman Award (against the very mediocre WAC competition), his Cougars proceeded to get thumped by Hawaii 59-28. But that was mild compared to the following 65-14 debacle in the Holiday Bowl against Texas A & M.

    So, I guess bluto and other zealous BYU fans will have to forgive us if we are not impressed with bluto's claim that his team has now reached an “Elite Plateau” as opposed to Utah's more impressive, more current accomplishments.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    June 2, 2013 8:45 a.m.

    @Go red & AZ Ute

    Couldn't agree more well said!

    Bluto dosen't understand that Utah paved the way to all the recent changes and changing of the college football landscape. Utah was the first non-bcs school to win a bcs bowl. Then they followed that up with an even more impressive run 4 years later.

    Bluto I'm sorry buddy I realize it's tough to see your rival absolutley dominate the overall series and win most of the head to head match ups. I'm sure it's tough to search for anything you can to try and prove a teams better when they rarely beat them on the field where it actually matters....lol

    Also Bluto just heads up since you want to reference 1984 as an accomplishment with no recognition of the weak schedule the Y played. I will give the Y credit for their un-beaten season it was a good year for them. I also will say the best a team can do is win all the games on their schedule. The Y has accomplished that feat 1 time in their entire history. The utes on the other hand have accomplished that feat nearly 10 times.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 2, 2013 9:24 a.m.

    @Ute fans
    Fact....
    BYU has Major Achievements in College football.
    Not one, not two, but scores of them.
    Utah does not.
    How tedious and sad one must be to constantly feel a need to put oneself through endless contortions, in order to minimize your Big Brothers achievements.
    Inferiority complex on display.

    btw
    Ty Detmer and BYU beat the #1 ranked Miami Hurricanes on National TV in his Junior year.
    Miami finished ranked #3 that year. That's how it's done.
    Let us know when Utah beats a #1 ranked team, OK?
    Let alone has 23 National Award winners.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 2, 2013 1:27 p.m.

    @Bluto

    Clearly that 1984 NC trophy means a lot to Cougar Nation.

    But, let's consider some context.

    No team in the BCS era would win a NC with the schedule BYU faced in 1984.

    The BCS may not be perfect but it ensures that no team, even an undefeated team, can win the NC without a solid record against quality competition.

    The fact that BYU won the 1984 NC trophy by beating a mediocre team in a 2nd tier bowl game began the evolution of events that has resulted in the BCS, which has excluded BYU.

    Enjoy that trophy, but remember that the modern era a college football has evolved with the purpose of excluding teams like the 1984 Cougars that are unproven against quality competition.

    So, I guess you could say that BYU does have a legacy... and that legacy is the BCS.

    Oh... and as for those 23 national award winners, enjoy those too, but remember that those were awarded by vote... and those votes were inspired by gaudy statistics run up against weak competition.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 2, 2013 2:08 p.m.

    @sammyg

    BYU doing more with less? Cute comment?

    But lets consider some facts.

    Pre-indy, Bronco's recruiting classes averaged a ranking of 60th... post-indy Bronco's classes have ranked on average 64th.

    Mid-majorish recruiting that has actually declined since the indy announcement worked fine in 2011 and 2012 when the schedule was loaded with cupcakes.

    Now that the BYU schedule is looking like BCS quality for 2013, mid-major recruiting won't work quite as well.

    But, hey if you think mid-major recruits will dominate a BCS schedule... then enjoy.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 2, 2013 6:27 p.m.

    Howie

    Recruiting smack against a team that's supposedly irrelevant. Well we know BYU is still relevant, Utes trying to move on and compete in their conference is proving troublesome.

    The so called recruiting improvements at the U have done nothing, nor will they against the likes of USC, Oregon, Stanford, AZ, etc.

    The McWaCish days are gone howie and its obvious where the Utes place is in the PAC10.2

    This year will be Back to Back Bowl-less... B2BB

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 2, 2013 7:44 p.m.

    @sammyg

    The last three years have been some of the lowest rated recruiting classes in Bronco's tenure... and there's no improvement in sight.

    So it's not just me that considers BYU's independence irrelevant in the modern era of college football... it's highly rated recruits.

    BYU schedules in 2011 and 2012 were with padded with WAC patsies. Until 2013 BYU has never faced a BCS quality schedule on a week in/week out basis.

    I am genuinely puzzled as to how the Cougar Nation thinks that Bronco's mid-major recruiting classes are going to compete successfully with the big boys each week.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 2, 2013 8:10 p.m.

    sammyg--

    "The so called recruiting improvements at the U have done nothing, nor will they against the likes of USC, Oregon, Stanford, AZ, etc."

    We've yet to face UO/Stanford and we're 1-1 against "Mighty" ua. Furthermore, during our 2 years in The PAC-12, we're 7-11 and ua is 6-12.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 2, 2013 8:11 p.m.

    The byu fanbase sure likes to point to our 2 year record in conference play as we transition into The PAC-12, a transition which requires multiple recruiting-classes as a BCS school, in order to build the depth necessary to successfully play through a legitimate week-in, week-out grind of a schedule, something which is 100% foreign to byu. Instead, byu is 100% accustomed to feasting upon the likes of Idaho, Idaho St., Hawaii, NMSU, etc., in order to pad their record, become bowl eligible and be able to proclaim their "greatness" to the world. Even their 2013 schedule is ripe w/weeks-off. See our 2013 mid-season 8-game stretch for comparison.

    byu has played against 5 PAC-12 teams now and has a 2-3 record, beating 2 teams which finished at the bottom of the conference and getting absolutely brutally curb-stomped AT HOME by the only 2 teams which finished the season w/a winning-record.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 2, 2013 8:22 p.m.

    @sammyg--

    We've also taken USC, W/Matt Barkley, down to the wire during both of our years.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 2, 2013 8:33 p.m.

    And when they can't win a discussion they always go back to " Well, you guys didn't go to a bowl last year, and anyway, we have a bigger stadium". lol.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 2, 2013 9:37 p.m.

    Howie

    I appreciate your interest in BYU sports but the recruiting for BYU is not comparable to 'big boy' recruiting. As you well know a religious school like BYU does not have as large of a pool to pull from. It is what it is.

    I'm happy how BYU does in its recruiting efforts. But I can't believe that your mighty team can be happy with 'inferior' (Ute perspective) 2-3 star recruits as compared to USC, Oregon, Stanford 4-5 'superior' (Ute perspective) star recruits.

    This has been discussed multiple times.

    You've mistaken me for someone that has a lot of angst about BYU recruiting. Whatever BYU does recruiting wise doesn't concern me nearly as much as it does you.

    I on the other hand have always tried to figure out how the Utes will 'work' in the PAC10.2 since the hype of the announcement.

    My expectations for the Utes have not disappointed... as predicted.

    B2BB

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 2, 2013 9:40 p.m.

    azute

    "We've also taken USC, W/Matt Barkley, down to the wire during both of our years."

    So? You still lost.

    According to Ute fans when BYU comes close to winning against BSU, ND, Utes... it means nothing.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 2, 2013 9:58 p.m.

    @Bluto
    You're selling 1990 Miami short. They finished the season ranked #2 and would have definitely been national champions if not for BYU beating them. Btw Detmer had 300 plus yards passing in that game...you know putting up big numbers against "cupcakes"...the only argument ute fans jealous of big brother can ever make, unfortunately for Howie et al that garbage argument doesn't work against the hurricanes that year.
    @AZUTE
    I'll tell you something else that's 100% foreign to BYU fans...losing to 10 loss weaklings like Colorado and UNLV, sub .500 seasons and bowless post seasons. But keep quoting recruiting rankings which are still inferior to half the PAC12 to give yourself comfort. And please...you didn't take USC to the wire last year, that game wasn't even as close as the score indicated and anyone who watched it would agree...the score was 38-21 late before Utah scored a TD to close the gap and that was all after sleep walking the 1st qtr and spotting U 14 points. What excuses/spin will you come up with when BYU goes 8-4, or 9-3 against the 2013 schedule? I'm sure you'll think of something.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 2, 2013 10:15 p.m.

    In regards to the article, I didn't take any of Fred or Kyle's comments as being derogatory to BYU. They have had success and been given opportunities at the university of Utah, and it's all their kids have ever known. Remember, Kyle took a while to decide between BYU and Utah in 2005 so it's not like there's no feelings of nostalgia or gratitude for BYU. Fred jr even said he remembered his times at BYU with "fondness". C'mon Y fans lets not be so sensitive because if what the Whittingham kids say and do.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 2, 2013 10:22 p.m.

    2 corrections...Bluto was right Miami finished #3, and Detmer threw for 400+ yards against them (406).

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 2, 2013 10:32 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs

    Miami was 22 years ago... yet probably the last time BYU had a meaningful victory.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 2, 2013 10:39 p.m.

    @sammyg

    Happy with BYU's recruiting?

    Of course you are... when your schedule is populated with WAC cupcakes mid-major 2 star recruits work just fine.

    But don't expect a steady diet of BCS teams to lay down for those mid-major recruits like your typical WAC patsies.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 2, 2013 11:19 p.m.

    Howie:
    It never sinks in does it? BYU played 5 top 25 teams last year, Utah only 2. BYU avg opponent BCS ranking (most accurate ranking system) was 55.16, Utah was 47.63. Yeah, so much tougher schedule. Give the WAC crap a rest, in 2011 maybe that would fly, but according to the numbers it's just BS for 2012. I also realize Miami was 22 yrs ago, thanks. I was pointing out how stupid the arguments were about Ty Detmers heisman being won because of weak opponents, and pointing out that Miami was no "cupcake" and he sliced them up like a surgeon to the tune of 406 yards...try and follow please.

  • UtesBy5 Syracuse, UT
    June 3, 2013 12:15 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs:

    Yes, Detmer did have an outstanding career but would it have been as great if he had played in a tougher conference? Probably not. Yes he did have a nice game against Miami in 1990 but Texas A&M was another story. By the way, Detmer threw 28 picks during his Heisman season and more picks than TDs in his pro career.

    Yes, BYU did have an outstanding season in 1984 but would they have been undefeated if they had played in a tougher conference? Probably not.

    How many Heisman Trophy winners are drafted 230th overall in the 9th round? Detmer was in the right place at the right time for a Heisman Trophy.

    How many National Championship teams play a bowl game in a pre-Christmas mid-tier bowl game against a non-ranked 6-5 team that finished tied for 6th in their conference of 10 teams? BYU was fortunate in 1984.

    Playing against WAC competition did have it's advantages.

    BYU will play their most difficult schedule in school history this year. Cougar fans will realize just how difficult it is to play BCS caliber teams week after week. Best of luck.

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    June 3, 2013 9:06 a.m.

    Another 5-7 season and the Whittingham clan will have great disdain for their former employer - the University of Utah.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 3, 2013 10:12 a.m.

    UtesBy5:
    Very reasonable assessment. I do think BYU was fortunate in 1984, and everything lined up nicely for them to finish number one. Against tougher competition it's hard to say what the results would have been. No one expected Utah to beat Alabama in 2008 despite nearly losing in the regular season to 3-9 Michigan, 4-8 New Mexico, and narrow victories over AFA and TCU that they easily could have lost. I think Lavell Edwards was right when he said going undefeated requires some measure of luck at times. As far as Heisman winners, we all know that many have gone late in the draft and not had successful NFL careers, but the Heisman isn't based on how good a pro prospect they are. I also agree that BYU and Detmer built a legacy on WAC competition, but when ute fans whine about that it just sounds like jealousy considering they had the same opportunity against the same WAC competition and didn't make it happen.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 3, 2013 11:00 a.m.

    UTAH not only played ranked opponents in '08, they beat 4 which finished the season ranked, including 2 in The Top-10, 1 of which spent 1 1/2 months at #1. There's a huge difference between playing teams finishing ranked and beating them than to play against them and losing to them. There's also a huge difference between beating them at home and beating them away from home.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 3, 2013 11:02 a.m.

    Brigham Young

    Texas Christian, Boise State, and Utah have been tearing it up over the last decade, but in 1984 Brigham Young did something none of those other "Little Big" teams have even gotten a legitimate shot at: they finished #1.

    Unfortunately, BYU '84 differs from those other teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent. The only so-called "national champion" that didn't (though Oklahoma came very close in 1956).

    BYU's 1984 opponents went 61-85-3, placing their schedule 96th amongst 98 division 1A schools.

    And yet their performance was as weak as their schedule.

    They won five games by a touchdown or less, from a 20-14 win at 3-7-1 Pitt in their opener to a 24-17 win against 6-6 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl-- by far the worst bowl opponent ever faced by a so-called "national champion."

    How bad was Michigan? They finished 6th in the Big Ten, and the Big Ten was a horrid 12-15 against nonconference opponents and 1-5 in bowl games. The only conference in the country that was as bad as the Big 10 was the WAC itself.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 3, 2013 11:03 a.m.

    So how did BYU end up #1? Well, for one thing, BYU was greatly aided by the weekly upset chaos of 1984. Look at the teams in the top 20 and you see only one team with just 1 loss, and one other with a loss and tie. Everyone else had at least 2 losses. The 1-loss team, Washington, lost the Rose Bowl bid because Southern Cal beat them, so they were not viewed as a conference champion (though they were, sharing the title with USC). And the 9-1-1 team, Florida, was hit with probation in September for massive cheating, and no one wanted to reward a "cheater." So the timing was right.

    Of course, in 2007 a 2-loss LSU team was rated higher than an unbeaten Hawaii team that looked a lot like BYU '84, so in the end, what put BYU over the top in 1984 was a zeitgeist thing. Or maybe a mass psychosis thing. In any case, it had never happened before, and it has not happened since, even though there have been quite a few better "Little Big Teams" than BYU '84 before and since.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 3, 2013 11:16 a.m.

    "I'll tell you something else that's 100% foreign to BYU fans...losing to 10 loss weaklings like Colorado and UNLV, sub .500 seasons and bowless post seasons."

    Do you mean the same, exact UNLV which byu lost TWICE to, including AT HOME? LOL

    RE: CU--We beat byu 54-10 in provo in 2011....Think about it.

    "And please...you didn't take USC to the wire last year, that game wasn't even as close as the score indicated and anyone who watched it would agree...the score was 38-21 late before Utah scored a TD to close the gap and that was all after sleep walking the 1st qtr and spotting U 14 points."

    Actually, we FORCED 2 TOs and EARNED those 14-PTS. Furthermore, the score was 24-21 in the 4th-QTR before, USC got a fluke 83-YD bomb TD-Pass and a fluke PICK-6.

    "What excuses/spin will you come up with when BYU goes 8-4, or 9-3 against the 2013 schedule? I'm sure you'll think of something."

    HYSTERICAL--byu will be the luckiest team on Earth, should they even break-even and finish the regular season at 6-6. Nice try.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 3, 2013 11:33 a.m.

    During this current BCS Era, BOTH UTAH/byu have reached 11 bowl games. 2X BCS Bowling/WINNING UTAH is a resounding 10-1, while indy-WACer byu has struggled to keep their collective-head above .500 at 6-5.

    Furthermore, UTAH has now won 3 straight against byu, 4 of 5, 8 of 11 and owns a COMMANDING lead in the overall record, 56-34-4.

    Good times, brethren, good times, indeed.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 3, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    @AZUTE1

    G.A.M.E. S.E.T. M.A.T.C.H.

    AZUTE1 destroys the little brothers down south.

    Good stuff...

  • Chewbacca Magna, UT
    June 3, 2013 12:10 p.m.

    The cougars had a nice run through the WAC of the 80's. I have a lot of respect for Lavell. But, your "legacy" AND a buck fifty will get you a Big Gulp at 7-11. It hasn't gotten you into a single BCS bowl game, or a BCS conference. It hasn't translated into any serious accomplishments in the 21st century. When will your "legacy" pay some dividends on the field?

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    June 3, 2013 3:53 p.m.

    @ Go Red - you also forgot to mention that the Heisman committee actually changed how and when they gave out the award to avoid another Detmer embarrassment. They changed the voting and the timing of the award so that every candidate actually finishes their respective season before voting is completed. Never again will they be embarrassed by giving out the award then having the recipient get BLOWN OUT by a weak, WAC team the same day. Detmer was great, and would have deserved the Heisman before the Hawaii debacle, but he NEVER would have got the trophy after the Hawaii loss, and rightly so.

    As far as 1984 mythical NC goes, byU also never would have had a sniff at the title game under the BCS system. They may have qualified for a BCS bowl game that year, but we all know they would have fallen horribly (see Hawaii) based on their performance against a poor 6-6 Michigan - who they BARELY beat.

    I just love how all the byU "fans" are all over these Utah stories, yet on Cougar stories ..... crickets!!

    Go Utes!! Can't wait for 8/29!!!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    June 3, 2013 5:45 p.m.

    One thing that I found hilarious - here is a story about a Utah coach and the comments are filled with byU trollers and Utah haters. byU trollers convince themselves that they are justified in negative comments because Utah fans are "classless" and are always writing negative things on byU stories. Well I just read a good story about Brandon Doman and looked at all the comments. Not a single comment from Utah trollers, not even the regulars. But there were a lot of comments from byU "fans" bashing Doman while he's down.

    tsk tsk!!

    Go Utes!!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 3, 2013 5:58 p.m.

    AZUTE:
    "Do you mean the same, exact UNLV which byu lost TWICE to, including AT HOME? LOL"
    And spin and spin we go...nothing new for you. BYU lost both times to UNLV during the Crowton era when BYU finished less than .500 themselves and UNLV didn't have a 10 loss team either time. Utah on the other hand lost in an epic shutout 27- ZERO to a 10 loss UNLV (the only conference victory the Rebs had that yr lol) while Utah was 9-4...epic fail.

    "RE: CU--We beat byu 54-10 in provo in 2011....Think about it."
    Yeah, think about it...as long as you're talking about flukes, BYU finished 10-3 that year with a 1 pt loss to a Texas team that was clearly better than Utah, and by 10 points to MWC champion TCU in a hard fought game on the road. Clearly Utah wasn't as good and BYU wasn't as bad as that score indicated, because Utah wasn't even close to being as good as TCU or Texas. Colorado was still 1-11 and one if the worst teams in college football..."think about it".

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 4, 2013 12:43 a.m.

    "What excuses/spin will you come up with when BYU goes 8-4, or 9-3 against the 2013 schedule? I'm sure you'll think of something."

    I can't predict the future, but I wouldn't bet the farm on BYU winning more than 7 games.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 4, 2013 1:10 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs:

    "Utah on the other hand lost in an epic shutout 27- ZERO to a 10 loss UNLV."

    BJ sat out the first half of that game, and was only brought back into the game because it was clear that his backup (Grady) wasn't going to get it done. BJ had separated his shoulder 3-wks earlier, and had trouble throwing the ball.

    As for the shut out, yes, we WERE "shut out" in that game, but it wasn't because we couldn't score. We could have...once BJ was inserted back into the game. We turned the ball over on downs twice, all within FG range, and after BJ was knocked back out of the game late in the 4th, Grady IMMEDIATELY threw an INT -- in the endzone -- with 10-sec. remaining in the game. The reason why we didn't score, was because the ONLY way to impact the outcome of the game, would be via TDs. Whether we lose by 1 or lose by 27, it still reads the same in the conference standings.

    Did you not watch that game, or were you just being frantic and emotional?

  • Reno Cougs Fan 68 Reno, NV
    June 4, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    I would like to point out to my brother Ute fans that pre-season and early polls are not based on games played that year but on reputation built on more than one season! Top 25 teams have history so they get rankings, if it were based just on one or two seasons then Utah would have won titles for 2004 and 2008! Go back and look at what BYU did in 1983 and before, that is how they got the respect and votes that led to a unanimous title in 1984!!!

    Go Cougs!!!
    Go Utes!!!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 4, 2013 3:18 p.m.

    Only in utah county does losing to UNLV twice and losing to them at home equate to being somehow even remotely being better than losing to them on the road merely once, only in utah county. LOL

    "BYU finished 10-3 that year with a 1 pt loss to a Texas team that was clearly better than Utah"

    Hysterical. UT finished with the identical record as UTAH and struggled to beat a patsy-byu at home just one week before UTAH went on the road and utterly destroyed them on their homefield, 54-10. Just imagine what CU would've done to byu then. LOL

    Furthermore, byu would've been lucky to register one, single win against the SOS CU played against in 2011!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 5, 2013 12:49 p.m.

    Naval Vet:
    "Did you not watch that game, or were you just being frantic and emotional?"

    Why would I watch that game? Who cares? I saw what everyone else in the MWC and the nation saw...a 27-0 scoreboard of a 10 loss UNLV team beating a 9-4 Utah team they had no business beating, let alone by 4 TDs. I assure you that no one cares about all your excuses, that was an epic choke job...then U decided to follow it up with a 2011 version against one of the worst teams in college football. No one cares about excuses, and the only numbers that matter are the zeroes on the clock and the score displayed beneath them.

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    July 15, 2013 3:20 p.m.

    @EdGrady

    You said - "Another 5-7 season and the Whittingham clan will have great disdain for their former employer - the University of Utah."

    Actually you see, Ute fans are back to the time when the only game that matters is the one against BYU. They beat the Cougars and they could finish the rest of the season 0-11 and they'd be happy.

    But wait, BYU and Utah aren't playing each other in 2014 and 2015. What will Ute fans do to measure their success?

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    July 15, 2013 3:36 p.m.

    I don't get it. Two seasons into the PAC-12 and Utes fans are still obsessed with BYU. I thought Ute fans were planning to forget all about BYU and find a new rival.