I suppose that really depends on which bowl game. I'd rather beat the
Indy-WACers and finish without a bowl game than lose to them and wind up in the
New Mexico Bowl. On the other hand, I'd rather lose to the Indy-WACers,
but see us play in the Rose. I suppose if our bowl opponent would have been a
mid-major anyway, then we might as well beat little brother. It's
It's not even debatable; beating BYU is always Utah's number one goal
- Utah fans citing Utah's record versus BYU more than any other
accomplishment is proof of that.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.Utah is still
the little brother of BYU.Was so in the 1980s and 1990s and by the
results of this poll, is still today.I feel for you Ute fans. You
are in the Pac 12 for crying out loud. Where is your pride?
I would much rather go to a bowl game which means we had a good season. Beating
BYU is not that great anymore. Want victories over Pac 12 opponents. Moved on
You are waisting your time. It doesn't matter what the fans want. To find
out why this rivalry game isn't being played just look at the bottom line.
That means look at the money!!! If you get 3, 4 or 5 times as much money to
play team B over playing team A - guess which one your going to play.
Klye Van Noy said he is delaying his NFL career and returning for his senior
year because of "unfinished business." So let it be written. So let it
That result surprises exactly no one although some of the more prominent utah
"fans" on this site will undoubtedly try to spin it otherwise. The fact
is the BYU game is the most important thing to utah and its "fans" and
the results prove it. utah takes the game far more seriously than does BYU. BYU
spends more time concerning itself with national accomplishments and in the case
of the BYU/utah rivalry that is a detriment but in the case of overall national
prominence it has resulted in BYU being far superior in nationally recognized
accomplishments. utah on the otherhand invests just about everything
it has into the BYU game and generally comes up lacking in national
accomplishments and recognitions as evdienced by the fact they have only
finished a season ranked 5 times in their entire history and have never had even
one national award winning player. Compare that to BYU's extremely
extensive list of national rankings, all american's, and individual awards
including the most presitigious of them all, the National Championship and the
Heisman Trophy and you can see the vast difference in what each univeristy
considers to be more important.
I don't think that Kyle Van Noy and Cody Hoffman will be denied this
year.Taysom Hill is green but very talented and smart. The new offense and
coaching should be a marked improvement.I want to see both teams do
well but this year should belong to BYU.
Read any comments from Ute fans in the past year and you will know that they
would rather beat BYU than go to a bowl game. This is evidenced by the fact that
many Ute fans believe they had a better season last year, despite finishing with
a losing record.
Regardless of the expected spin from the usual suspects on the hill, the
BYU-Utah football game is always THE BIGGEST GAME on Utah's athletic
Wow! Granted, it wasn't a very scientific poll, but there are more than a
few Ute fans out there with self-esteem issues. As a Cougar fan, I want the
whole apple pie. I say beat the Utes and become bowl eligible as well. However,
if I had to pick and choose, I would prefer (at the very least) go to the Kraft
Hunger Bowl in San Francisco next December than attend the Couch Potato Bowl
like Utah had to do last season. Yes, it hurts to lose to the Utes, but
it's way more insulting not making it to the post-season.
Quick couple of items.1) What is the sample size? This could make a
big difference in the numbers2) How can anyone, in any way, ever
believe that this poll is representative of anything but the blog's twitter
followers who took it upon themselves to answer a question? There
are so many statistical flaws in this it's mind boggling. Please BYU fans
for the sake of everyone don't cite this as evidence. It's not. At
best it's something to look at and say, "Wow, what a waste of
It's not "beating BYU" or "going to a bowl game," that is
the problem. The problem is the potential of losing to BYU and the Ute athletic
department won't take that risk. As for the ute fans, some of
them still value the game, some do not because they think they have "moved
on." Moved on to what, becoming the Wyoming of the Pac 12, a
classless doormat? Moreover, their membership in the Pac 12 seems to be more
important than their identity as ute fans. In what other city do we see people
putting Pac XII logos on their vehicles? Do USC, UCLA, Arizona, Cal, Stanford,
Oregon or Washington fans do that? This serves as more indication of
the inferiority complex that ute fans still have over their second rate program
that can't even get national TV exposure for a game versus USC. Utah should keep playing BYU because being on the same field as the Cougars is
one of the best things they can do to gain media exposure and to legitimize
their program among the neutral, national fan base. As it is now, nobody but a
small handful of ute loyalists really care much about you.
LOL @ everything Ducky said!
Owning scoreboard is important, locally. Finishing in the national picture is a
sliding scale. As NV said, playing in, and winning, the New Mexico Bowl is
nice, but far below expectations. Winning the Potato Bowl and
finishing ranked though, is very important to Utah State, because it starts them
ahead for this year. That's how legacies are built. If they play about
the same this year, they'll finish higher because of last year. Utah fans, largely, don't understand that. I think they don't want
to understand that. It ticks them off that this is the way BYU won a national
championship, by a body of work that spanned several years, not just one. Utah,
by comparison, had two brilliant seasons, but little continuity to build on.
That's why Utah drools over one game and BYU looks at the long
I agree with Duckhunter. BYU would win the Utah/BYU game every year if BYU
cared about it.
Duckhunter:"utah takes the game far more seriously than does
BYU."Not so little brother. Remember...(1) It was
YOUR team who pulled out all the stops in order to schedule a "bye" week
the week prior to the game. (2) It was YOUR team who hadn't
been able to sell out their stadium since leaving the MWC to go play WAC
football with the sole exception of your gave vs...yep...you guessed it... big
brother UTAH!(3) It was YOUR team who had been playing ho-hum,
third tier mid-majors in a mid-majorey bowl game. And these bowl games were
poorly viewed by your so-called "national fanbase".(4)
It's been YOUR fanbase who had been howling the loudest about this
scheduled series interruption.(5) When was the last time a talented
Ute deferred the NFL draft, and ensuing $$$ millions for just so they
wouldn't leave SLC 0-3 vs. their hated rival...like Van Noy.Pac-12 wins are more important for Utah. Beating Utah is the most important
objective for Y. And you KNOW it!Just because you usually lose this
game, that doesn't mean it wasn't YOUR "bowl game".
Arm of OrionDid you even read the article? It clearly says that the
poll wasn't scientific and the blog post states that the results were
compiled via twitter. Regardless of the poll's validity, an interesting
question none the less.
BYU fans like Duckhunter can claim that going bowling is more important - which
is great and all - but Utah fans simply don't get all that worked up about
going to the kind of bowl games BYU has routinely been going to the past 15
years. If you're going to go to the New Mexico Bowl versus winning your own
state bragging rights, I'd take the state bragging rights.Where the
poll is flawed is exactly as Naval Vet explained, what bowl are we talking
about? If it's a middle to upper tiered bowl game then I'm sure
we'd see entirely different poll results from Ute fans.
FairchildIV did you read my post? I clearly mentioned that their twitter
followers then asked how anyone can take this with more than a grain of salt. If
you are still confused look at item 2 of my post. Yes I read the article. My
questions are still valid. How can anyone take this seriously at all? And how
many people responded?
Blue RampageRegarding - "The problem is the potential of losing
to BYU and the Ute athletic department won't take that risk."--- That's strange, why then are they (the U) planning on scheduling BYU
for at least another home and home following the 2 year hiatus?________Regarding - "Moved on to what, becoming the Wyoming of the Pac 12, a
classless doormat?"--- Call the Utes a conference doormat if you
wish, but if you want to go with classless you ought to look at the fans in
Provo for your example of what classless is. BYU fans have been far more prone
to throwing trash onto fields and courts when things don't go their way
than pretty much any other group of fans outside of the Wyo fans you mentioned.
Now THAT's classy!_________Regarding - "In what other
city do we see people putting Pac XII logos on their vehicles?"--- Ever been to SEC country? It clearly still pains you, not being in a
conference and all ... I feel for ya brother.
This is going to be bad for Utah. Not only are they going to lose in Provo this
year, they won't be going to any bowl games for years. I guess
beating BYU is bigger than a "BCS" bowl game. I knew BYU was big time!
navelvetNice spin, but we all know that the PACy WACers have
absolutely NO CHANCE of going to the Rose Bowl if they lose to BYU. The Utes haven't lost to BYU and still won a conference championship in
over SEVENTY years, since 1942.
I love how this article among every article about the subject blames
"scheduling conflicts" as the reason why the rivalry game won't
continue for 2 years. BYU wants it to continue while Utah doesn't care for
it. The University of Utah is the reason why the Holy War won't continue.
What a shame.
As if winning a post season game for an Independent is the same as winning a
post season game in the PAC-12...not apples to apples.
This is just silly. The rivalry game lost relevance when Utah chose to end it
yet it's still the biggest game of the year for the U. BYU has clearly
moved on, building tough schedules in the years to come. BYU will continue to
do well and the U will continue to dream of a Rose Bowl berth. BYU might not
hit the National Championship game but at least they're aimed that way. I
wish the best for the Utes but I have a hard time believing they'll do much
of anything; even if they come out on top of the PAC12 South they'll still
have that pesky conference championship game to deal with.
Wow! We cougar fans are not obsessed with big brother Utah! We are not
delusional! We would never take a silly, completely unscientific poll and run
wild with it! Ha!
@armyvet - If BYU is the Indy WACers, does that make U the PAC WACers, since we
play the same number of ex-WAC teams over the next few years? In case U missed
the headlines, the WAC is dead. Brainstorm with Chris B and I bet you can come
up with a new line.Even if it's the rivalry game, I can't
imagine one game being more important than the whole of the season. As painful
as it was to lose 2 of the last 3 on the final play to the Utes, I really
enjoyed watching the Poinsetta bowl instead of sitting home in December.
Wow! That explains a lot. I'm not even going to think about jumping further
into this topic. No wonder they keep losing to PAC 10 teams.
Malarky! BYwho? Can't you see why Utah fans have been bragging up beating
you three years in a row? Because we have SCOREBOARD! Why does Utah want to
beat BYU so bad? because it helps in recruiting the state of Utah. We're
winning the games. We're winning the recruiting war. We love it. A bowl game? I agree with Naval Vet above. Would I rather see the Utes
play in a no-name bowl or beat byu? Beat byu. But that's as far as it
goes. Would I rather see Utah beat byu or beat USC, Oregon, or Stanford?
I'll take the conference win. What's funny is how the
tables have turned. Utah has become the biggest game of the year for byu. We
are your "bowl game."
@ DNews"Beat BYU or go to a bowl?"A question
like that is like me asking: "Playing as an Indy and winning 11
games and still playing in your mid-major bowl game every year or rejoin the MWC
and win the conference for a chance at a automatic berth in the Fiesta Bowl
(when the new post season begins)?"
C'mn folks. It's time to grow up emotionally. As fun as it is to beat
the Y and even more fun to beat them over and over - it is NOT more important
than a winning season!!! Case in point - We beat BYU in 2002 and
then promplty fired McBride. Why? Because beating BYU is not enough anymore. It is called progress!! We are not in the WAC anymore it is not the 70s
or 80s. It is 2013. We are in the Pac 12. We love to beat the team
down south but we NEED to beat USC, Oregon and Stanford.
So...as a BYU fan.... I would rather just not play Utah... Going to a bowl is
just second nature in Provo.
Hey duckhunter and millred, you mean to tell me that your team doesn't care
about beating their rival. And you are a fan of team that has that sort of
mindset. Maybe you are right, they keep losing to them.
Beat BYU and let everyone know within earshot that they are members of the
PAC-12. Doesn't matter if they continue to be the doormat of said
Mr PAC12FAN, to go to a bowl game you need victories, so beating BYU would
actually be a positive; Utah has always maintained that winning the PAC12 South
is their goal--and so losing to BYU means nothing; so why not schedule the game?
Image! They are affraid of the loss. Utah has had a nice little run of
victories but I do recall not a couple decades ago that BYU would win 9 of 10
games for a nice little run of their own. It flows up and down, so why not put
away all the talking points and schedule the game like the fans want and enjoy
the moment, win or lose.
motorbike"Utah fans simply don't get all that worked up
about going to the kind of bowl games BYU has routinely been going to the past
15 years."bwaaahahaha!Utah fans bragged incessantly
about Utah's 9-game winning streak until the string was broken by a
resounding defeat by a WAC team in the Las Vegas Bowl. Recalling the "kind
of bowl games" the Utes won during their bowl winning streak:1999 Las Vegas Bowl vs Fresno State(8-5)2000 Las Vegas Bowl vs
USC(6-6)2001 Liberty Bowl vs So Miss(9-4)2004 Fiesta Bowl vs
Pittsburgh(8-4)2005 Emerald Bowl vs Ga Tech(7-5)2006 Armed Forces
Bowl vs Tulsa(8-5)2007 Poinsettia Bowl vs Navy(8-5)2008 Sugar Bowl
vs Alabama(12-2)2009 Poinsettia Bowl vs Cal(8-5)Utah fans get
all worked up about ANY bowl win, regardless of how mediocre the competition
"What's funny is how the tables have turned. Utah has become the
biggest game of the year for byu. We are your "bowl game."Nope. BYU goes to ACTUAL bowl games. Pity Ute fans have forgotten about
those so quickly.
Actions speak louder than words. When was the last time ANY team rushed the
field THREE times for a single victory?The ONLY accomplishment the
Utes have talked about the last two years is beating BYU.Not being
ranked - don't careLosing record in the PAC - don't careNo
bowl - don't careLosing to Utah State - don't careLosing
to Utah's "new rival" - don't careThe meer thought of
losing to BYU - strikes panic into Uteville
It would be interesting to see a comparison between actual scientific polls done
5 years ago, and today. The Y game is still important, but much less than it
used to be. I feel like there has been a big shift since the vast improvements
that came in the rest of our schedule with joining the Pac 12. This was
evidenced by the U dropping the Y for a couple years to play Michigan, which
most Utes I know are happy about, though this seems to be a sore subject for a
lot of Y fans. I agree with NavalVet and Motorbike that the answer
to this completely depends on the Bowl. Utah fans have enjoyed two BCS bowls in
the very recent past, and so something like the New Mexico Bowl doesn't
hold a lot of meaning for us right now. I'm not surprised if most fans
would still rather beat the Y.Either way, we can always plan on
plenty of hurt Y "fans" hypocritically commenting on Utah articles about
how it is the Utes who are obsessed with them. Never gets old for me
That question belong to Bronco M., what is his answer? Bowl game is just one
more game to play and no implication of playing for the NC (NO Question About
That). Playing in the Rose, Fiesta, Orange and Cotton Bowls are nice but New
Mexico? I know we all BYU want to win this u game but the rest of this 2013
season will be no cup cakes (well Idaho). I don't mind this year at SF
Kraft Bowl which is great place to be at.
Y Dad/Grad: Your post makes little sense. Looking at the "long
haul", as you put it, is exactly what got Utah into the PAC in the first
place. Urban Meyer got things started over a decade ago with asking to join the
Pac 10, and Utah football's winning tradition over the course of that
decade is largely what got the U the invite (we certainly know it wasn't
from the basketball team). If BYU had been thinking more long term,
Y fans would be attempting to hurl insults at U fans from the likes of the Big
12 conference, and not from lonely independence way out West.
Snack PAC"The Utes haven't lost to BYU and still won a
conference championship in over SEVENTY years"Quite obviously,
Utah's entire season hangs in the balance when the Utes play BYU.
Seems like a lot of people on both sides are talking about this like it means
Ute fans would rather beat BYU than win the Pac 12 South.Nooooooooope.
What's funny is Utah fans deluding themselves into believing that the
tables have turned... ironically, joining the PAC has been a trip back to the
future for the Utes, where BYU is once again Utah's bowl game.
It's interesting that some of the kids on the hill are pretending that this
is a choice between the Utes going to a major bowl or beating BYU.Let's get real.There's absolutely no chance the Utes are
going to a major bowl if they lose to BYU.
What Utah fans have to realize is that the Utah administrators no longer call
the shots. They are all subjects to Larry Scott now. He is the overlord and
they must bow down to whatever he says. They sold out. I can't blame
them. They are in a better place as far as money goes. While the cellar
isn't a happy place, at least they can keep looking at the checks that are
coming in from their overlord. Maybe some day they will get to a
bowl game again. Maybe.
Cowboy DudeSAINT GEORGE, UT"As if winning a post season
game for an Independent is the same as winning a post season game in the
PAC-12...not apples to apples."Here's a clue: IF Utah
succeeds in winning six games this season, they may well end up in the...
drumroll please... Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl. Their likely opponent: BYU.
Looks pretty Apples to Apples to me.
Duckhunter - very well said, Brother.Naval Vet - Rose Bowl??? Get
real. You must be kidding.
Naval Vet told Ducky just how it really is and of course he was correct. Let go
of the Hatred of everything Ute, Ducky. You crawl out of the woodwork on every
article this can't be healthy. I like the rivalry game, but it sure will be
nice to get away from so many rabid BYU fans for a couple of years!
nosaerfoeciovehtDoes winning the PAC 12 South guarantee U a bowl
game?theDailyObserverYou're completely delusional.
Utah's brief football flash-in-the-pan success in 2004 and 2008 had
absolutely NOTHING to do with the Utes being invited to the PAC. Utah's
better cultural and academic profile, and 2nd largest fan base in the Utah
market were the main factors in the Utes' invitation to the PAC.
Utah's PAC 12 bottom dwelling status in every sport except women's
gymnastics is proof positive that Utah wasn't invited because of their
athletic excellence. The PAC knew what they were getting in Utah; a whipping boy
for the big boys of the conference, nothing more.
Interesting article but even more interesting comments. Got a big chuckle from
all the Y fans posting about 'what U fans think'. Amazing that some
of you are so smart that you can speak for your rivals!Then there is the
repeated post from Duckhunter who amazingly knows the goal of the Utah football
program. Most of the U fans would disagree that our entire focus is on beating
the Y, although we have been very proficient at this over the past 11 years. He
follows that comment up by repeating the accomplishments from 30 years ago, none
of which happened in the current BCS world of college football.Not that
any Y fans will actually accept a comment from a real U fan but I totally agree
with Naval Vet. I'd rather go to the Rose Bowl and lose to the Y but
rather beat the Y instead of going to the Armed Forces or similar bowl.
Easy Question; Simple answer.Beat the sons of provo and go bowling!
I still get a chuckle every time is see a Pac 12 sticker or billboard or flag or
hat or (what else do they put them on?). Nothing like being the
bottom dweller in almost every sport in your conference. I guess the extra
money makes up for the empty huntsman center every game for the basketball
season. I really don't think either school is sitting very
pretty right now. I actually think college sports as a whole has
taken a huge hit the last 10 years or so. Across the nation, fans
are losing out. We want the rivalries. We could't care less about money.
The traditions have been lost and sports are becoming less relevant to the local
fans.It is sad no matter how you look at it.
In your dreams, duckhunter.Well said, Naval Vet and motorbike.The truth is, most Utah fans don't care that much for the byu game
anymore. Why should they? 3 in a row, 4 of 5, 8 of 11, and 56-34-4 overall.
There's little more to prove. The game IS a big deal for the byu fanbase,
as evidenced by their outcry when Utah decided to take a two year hiatus from
the series to play Michigan (a much harder challenge, by the way). It IS a big
game, as evidenced by Van Noy giving up his chance to be drafted this year in
order to try and get one win in four years against his rivals. And it IS a big
game as evidenced by Tom Holmoe scheduling a bye for byu THE WEEK BEFORE THE
UTAH GAME.One thing I will say. The D News knows how to stir the
pot with their byu-friendly fanbase. Sadly and unfairly, they usually do it at
Mister J"Easy Question; Simple answer."Trust a
Ute to completely misunderstand question; "all of the above" was not one
of the choices.
@ TheSportsAuthority: I don't know how you can say Utah
football's success had 'NOTHING' to do with Utah being invited to
the PAC, since Larry Scott specifically mentioned it at RES when he made the
formal invitation to Utah in 2010. Why don't you educate yourself, before
calling others 'delusional.' You'll get more creditability
dubbing yourself 'thesportsauthority', and not simply come across as a
one-dimensional y fan/Utah hater.
According to BYU fans:Quest t-shirts... $15Airport
celebrations ... $30Getting OWNED by your rival... Priceless!
This is a weak article. It confesses that it draws its conclusions from a
"self-proclaimed unscientific poll." Worse yet, many of you
believe that those who voted that the "rivalry game victory more
important" than a bowl bid are speaking for the Ute fan base at large. They don't speak for me.As much as I enjoy it when Utah
beats BYU - and that has happened more often than not in the last 20 years - a
bowl game means more to me.A win against the Cougars means the Utes
played well on that specific Saturday. A bowl invitation indicates that the
Utes have had a successful season. And now that Utah plays in a tougher
conference, bowl games have more significance than they did when the Utes racked
up wins against MWC opponents.I predict that this year's
Utah-BYU game will be another nail-biter. I hope that Utah wins again. But in
the end, it's only one of twelve games on the schedule...Go
Some Ute fans make the comments that playing these '3rd level' bowl
games just don't interest them. Well we all know that when
Colorado and Utah were added to the PAC10 that the Kraft Fight Hunger and New
Mexico Bowls were tied in specially for the sixth and seventh place
'winners'"It is your destiny"... if you can ever
win enough games again. LOL
The fact is, even if Utah loses to byU, they can still get to the Rose Bowl.
This just kills the byU "fans" on this board. They won't accept
it...it's not possible... not a chance. lol Who wants and
needs a win in this game more than the other? We all know the answer to that
one.Too funny that the Dnews dug this poll up to stir the pot when
they ask for "civil dialogue". Yeah right.
I believe the unscientific study is accurate. Based on the behavior of fans at
the Rivalry games and how closely so many Ute fans follow BYU articles, the
results don't surprise me at all.That being said, I am not
ashamed to admit that I would rather see BYU beat Utah than see them in an
insignificant bowl game. However, if the option were a BCS bowl game, I would
take the BCS bowl game.
If only one of these teams temporarily dropped the other from their schedule,
and then that other team's fan base whined about it for months.Then we'd finally know who this game means more to.
The Utes have gotten pretty arrogant, but I will take the National Championship
game or Rose Bowl over a Utah win this year.
And this is why Utah will never get anywhere. they are more concerned about
beating BYU than they are becoming a nationally recognized football team. If
Utah beats BYU and then sits on the couch during the post season, then what
exactly do the Utes have to brag about? there are enough bowl games
that it is just shameful if you don't make one. Utah fans, you need to
rethink your priorities. you enjoy the couch, I will enjoy watching
the Cougars play in a bowl game.
Finally, some hard numbers to prove what we all know. I wasn't surprised at
all at the results--in fact I voted 13 times since I know at least that many
Utes that I'm pretty sure think BYU is more important than a bowl game.
This is news? Like people didn't already know the outcome of this question?
My favorite is when they had an entire show on the radio dedicated to BYU/Utah
football not long ago. The question was whether ute fans cared about playing BYU
or not. They were blown away by all the calls, texts, and emails from ute fans
saying "we don't care, who needs them, blah blah" and talking all
this smack. Hilarious how in denial ute fans are about their game against BYU.
The radio show host even said, "if you don't care why so much noise and
banter...if it were Wyoming, or Air Force, etc we wouldn't be getting any
phone calls". I love this rivalry, hope it never dies.
Such polls are both transparent and deliberate in their design in order to
validate a specific agenda. In this case, the local media desperate to keep
this game alive. Consequently, I would not respond as neither option reflects my
true feelings on the matter. Let us be clear - the cost/benefit of playing BYU
yields a negative risk factor for Utah. As recent recruiting efforts
demonstrate, the ideal non-conference replacement would be against most any BCS
Texas school. However, the scheduling of Fresno State should serve as a clear
indication of Utah's present disposition toward BYU. One that I and a host
of fellow Utah fans wholeheartedly share.
It's an awesome game but an unhealthy rivalry. given the state of the
relationship between the fans, I'm glad we have a 2 year break so that
everyone can cool down some. So I wish the fans would lighten up a bit because I
actually blame the bad blood for the 2 year break more than the "scheduling
problem." But..........there's no other game I'd rather see than
the Holy War! GO BYU!
Why do we have to choose either/or?We've been doing both for years.
Plus, we've gone to and won bigger bowls.Playing
byu doesn't do anything for our program.It's not what got us
into the Pac12.Thanks for the memories though.Go Utes.
Utah State is the most important game - They beat us last year and it will be
the first test of the 2013 team.Oregon State is the most important game -
They are ranked and a PAC-12 opponent.BYU is the most important game - The
outcome could very well determine bowl eligibility for both teams.Every
league game is the most important game - Each game is critical to bowl
determination. As last year proved each game could determine if bowl eligible
and then which of 8 bowls PAC-12 teams can participate in. When
BYU and Utah were in the same league I attended the last 5 games in Provo. Two
years ago I went to USC not BYU game (duh! ) This year I will miss two Utah
games - WSU (late November and financial considerations) and BYU (league games
far more important!) That is how far down my priority list the Utah/BYU game
has fallen for me personally!
GoRed"The truth is, most Utah fans don't care that much for
the BYU game anymore."Which of course explains why you
immediately cited Utah's recent and lifetime record versus BYU, and why U
rushed the field THREE times after narrowly escaping with a win last year.You're so blinded by your crimson glasses wearing BYU obsession,
that you don't even recognize where your own true passion lies.The truth is, there is absolutely NOTHING Utah fans HATE more than losing to
BYU, or delight more in beating BYU.Suffering four-game losing
streaks in back-to-back seasons in the PAC 12 hardly raised an eyebrow in
Uteville. Suffering a four-game losing streak to BYU would cause a
monumental meltdown in Uteville.
utahcountyute"The fact is, even if Utah loses to BYU, they can
still get to the Rose Bowl."Theoretically, yes. In
reality, only in your crimson-colored dreams.Of course, you're
welcome to go on pretending it could happen, but we all know it's NEVER
going to happen.
I hope the DN has a similar poll for the byu fans in the near future. If not,
then it's my opinion that this poll was created to bait the Ute fans.Go Utes.
The "non-scientific" poll attached to this article says that 60% of Ute
fans would rather go to a bowl than beat BYU. Does that make this whole thread
null and void?
I would so much rather go to an upper tier bowl game than beat BYU. If it is
the New Mexico bowl than i would rather beat BYU.
A lot of trash talk as usual from both sides, but to me everyone missed an
important point regarding the bowl games. By going to a bowl game a team gets
extra practice time, which in my opinion is what helps get a team to a higher
level. So I think if you asked either coach, they would both say 'give me
the bowl game.'
There is only one College football program in the State of Utah that has
"Produced" the following...-A "Unanimous" National
Championship-A Heisman Trophy winner-A Maxwell Trophy winner-A
Doak Walker Trophy winner-Davey O'Brien Trophy winners (4)-Sammy Baugh Trophy winners (7)-C.F.P. Awards (3)-Hall of Fame
Coach...National Awards (6)-Conference Championships in the modern era
(23)-Consensus All-Americans (16)-All-Americans 70+-Super Bowl
MVP-NFL MVPs (2)-18 Top-25 finishesTo name but a
few...Not one of these things has the U of U program equaled....Not
one!"If you done it, it ain't bragging"
Walt WhitmanDo Utah fans look to BYU as
"The" game on their schedule, every year?Of course they do! Just look at how much catching up they (Utah) has to do to match
BYU's Legacy, Tradition and National Brand.
UteanymousSalt Lake City, Utahutahcountyute"The fact
is, even if Utah loses to BYU, they can still get to the Rose Bowl."And I would love it. In fact, while we are fantasizing, lets imagine
BYU beating Wisconsin too, and Wisconsin going to the Rose Bowl. Then we could have TWO teams beaten by BYU playing in the granddaddy of them
all.Of course, if BYU lost a different game, they could still end up
in the Kraft Fight Hunger bowl...
When you have lost 4 out of the last 5, what can you do? Apparently, the last
resort is to pretend you don't care.
Naval vetNot sure where to start. Remember when I told you Utah has
a large fan base that hates BYU more then they like Utah. So if it is the Rose
bowl fine but 11-2 is not good enough if you lose to BYU. As for
the rest. Are Utah fans going to start chanting BYU cheated the scheduled a bye
before the our game. Your right it would be nice if BYU was in a major
conference but they are not but one advantage they do have is they make there
own schedule. Why shouldn't they take advantage of that.
GoRedWEST VALLEY CITY, UT"The game IS a big deal for the
byu fanbase, as evidenced by their outcry when Utah decided to take a two year
hiatus from the series to play Michigan (a much harder challenge, by the
way)." Funny thing that it is not Michigan you got instead of BYU it
is Fresno State. BYU is also playing Michigan in 2015 and would still play
Utah. It IS a big game, as evidenced by Van Noy giving up his
chance to be drafted this year in order to try and get one win in four years
against his rivals. I don't know KVN but he might thing returning would
give him a better draft in 2014. Better wait and go in the first round then the
forth." And it IS a big game as evidenced by Tom Holmoe
scheduling a bye for byu THE WEEK BEFORE THE UTAH GAME." On thing about
being independent you make your own schedules. Nothing wrong with taking
advantage of that.
Beating byu annually only benefits us so much.FSU was scheduled
primarily for recruiting purposes, in addition to the fact they're
Have to smile. I suspect a lot of the voters are the same people who hang out
on-line waiting with baited breath for another BYU story they can comment on and
spew their hate.As I remember, there was a lot of emptiness around
Utah football this past December. I know in my family a lot of plans changed
when there was nowhere to go. A very disappointing year.Before you
go much further you better talk to the players and coaches who definitely want
to go to a bowl game. Ditto for the post season in any sport. Bowl games and
tournaments are flat out fun.
No survey needed. I could have told you that.
First, we love to beat BYU in anything. But, and there always is one, the game
doesn't mean as much as it once did. Bowl games are important. Especially
good bowl games. I find the comparison meaningless any more. Utah fans want
both. We want to continue to beat BYU in football and go to a bowl game. BYU
continues to get top billing with this paper and sports radio in this town.
Utah continues to build its' program and facilities to compete in the BCS
world and the PAC-12. That is what is really important now. We don't just
want to be part of the PAC-12 but be a leader in it. Whether we play BYU every
year is not important any more. They will do what's best for them and we
need to do what's best for us. That is the new game now. If we do that,
the bowls will take care of themselves and the scheduling with BYU will too.Personally, I am looking forward to the rest. Sorry sports radio and
D-news, many of us Utah fans think the same way.
AZUTE1"FSU was scheduled primarily for recruiting purposes, in
addition to the fact they're competitive."laughing
hystericallyUtah already plays USC, UCLA, Stanford and Cal; why on
earth would the Utes need a 2015 game in Fresno "for recruiting
purposes"?As for "competitiveness":2008 -
7-6, lost to Colo St in New Mexico Bowl2009 - 8-5, lost to Wyo in New
Mexico Bowl2010 - 8-5, lost to Hawaii by 22, beat Idaho by 3, lost to No
Ill by 33 Humanitarian Bowl2011 - 4-9, lost to NM St, no bowl2012 -
9-4, lost to SMU by 33 in Hawaii BowlOverall - 36-29, 0-4 in
bowlsTHAT's what you call "competitive"?It's laughable the utterly preposterous spin Utah fans have to fabricate
in order to justify their PACy WACy scheduling.
It should tell you who its really more important too by the overwhelming number
of BYU fans posting compared to Utah fans.
"Would Utah football fans rather beat rival BYU and finish with a losing
season or lose the rivalry game and finish the season with a bowl game?"The blog UTE FOOTBALL CENTRAL posed that question to Twitter followers
earlier this month.It's doubtful even a handful of BYU fans
would even be interested in, let alone follow, such a blog, so the vast majority
of responders were obviously Utah fans. Of course, the usual suspects on this
blog immediately go into denial, trying to paint the D-News reporting this as
being part of some vast "right-wing conspiracy".The constant
obsession by Utah fans/BYU haters of all things BYU reveals the true sentiment
on the hill. Beating BYU is their number one priority. Not going to a bowl game
in 2012 was a distant second to pulling out a narrow victory over BYU.
965The "overwhelming number of BYU fans" posting is simply
another indication of the overwhelming difference in size of fan bases.It's why BYU has had a 65,000-seat stadium since 1982, and why Utah still
doesn't have enough fans to justify building more than a 45,000-seat
Here we go again...It doesn't matter that we own them on the field,
Because... They Have A Bigger Stadium. lol.Go Utes.
This is not that surprising. Anyone, who comments on these boards would see that
beating BYU is more important to Ute fans than anything else, even over a losing
record. Utah finished 5-7 last year and they felt like they won another BCS bowl
game because at least they beat BYU.
@juggernaut1st of all mildred is a utah "fan" pretending to
be a BYU fan. 2nd of all I never said I don't care about beating utah, I
care about BYU beating every single team they play. But that isn't the
point here. I would prefer, and always have prefered, that BYU have better
records, go to bowl games, and be nationally ranked. utah "fans" care
more about beating BYU than anything else. It is just a matter of how each
fanbase looks at things. For a realitively unaccomplished commuter school
languishing in an out of the way state and at the bottom of its conference with
no hope of improvement in sight then it is understandable that they would view
beating the team that has so completely outshined them nationally for so many
decades as the pinnacle of their season.On the otherhand for a team
that has actually reached the pinnacle of the sport, as a team and as individual
players on those teams, it is simply not as big a deal. They tend to look at the
big picture. Hey neither is right or wrong, just preferences.
Was this article for U fans or both Y/U fans?
ekuteBigger stadium, bigger fanbase, vastly superior accomplishments
on a national scale - it's no wonder that Utah fans are so giddy every time
they beat their big brother; it's the only accomplishment our conference
bottom-dwelling little brothers have to talk about.
This is tough in some ways. As a Ute fan who lives in Utah, it is important to
win the rivalry game. But bowl appearances are what will attract recruits. I
will agree with Naval Vet in some ways. Would I rather beat BYU and go 5-7, or
go to a bad bowl and be 6-6? Probably beat BYU. But anything beyond that
borderline situation would go to the bowl game. The rivalry game only has
increased importance to me because I live here. If I lived in Arizona or
Southern California, those games would be more important than BYU. The real question as to the importance, is how many teams could you substitute
into that question? I would also take a win over a handful of PAC12 opponents in
that scenario as well. I guess I am petty, but I like to have bragging
rights in the work place and neighborhood.
DuckhunterHighland, UTutah on the otherhand invests just about
everything it has into the BYU game and generally comes up lacking in national
accomplishments and recognitions as evdienced by the fact they have only
finished a season ranked 5 times in their entire history and have never had even
one national award winning player. Compare that to BYU's extremely
extensive list of national rankings, all american's, and individual awards
including the most presitigious of them all, the National Championship and the
Heisman Trophy and you can see the vast difference in what each univeristy
considers to be more important._____Why does BYU invest
so much in sports accomplishments? It's just hype like kids waiting for the
Wiggle's or Justin Bieber tour to show up in town. The major conferences
don't care about a WAC Legacy, otherwise you would be an official member of
one. All it has rewarded you with is an ESPN contract where people watch BYU
loose to ranked teams, and pad the schedule with wins over bottom feeders.
@RagnarYou actually probably have a better grip on this than most
utah "fans". The truth is this is not really a one answer question. I
would guess that most people on both sides of this thing would look at it
situationally and not as "we want this over this no matter what".If utah "fans" had the choice of going 11-1 and getting to the
rose bowl with the one loss coming to BYU then most of them would probably take
that scenario. I would guess they would even take 9-3 or 8-4 with a bowl game
and a loss to BYU. Likewise BYU fans would take a bowl game and national ranking
over just beating utah. For me I would prefer 6-6 with a bowl game
and a loss to utah over 5-7 with no bowl game and a win over utah, going to a
bowl game is a bigger deal to me than beating utah, it has more implications
plus it is a lot of fun to go to bowl games and I enjoy it. But I do
believe utah "fans" put more emotion into the BYU game than BYU fans.
Bowl game, no question. I love it when Utah beats BYU, but a losing season is
not worth it.
uteBustersPark City, UTekuteBigger stadium, bigger
fanbase, vastly superior accomplishments on a national scale - it's no
wonder that Utah fans are so giddy every time they beat their big brother;
it's the only accomplishment our conference bottom-dwelling little brothers
have to talk about.__________Since when did those things
become prerequisites to be good in sports? You lost to San Jose St on the
road-smaller stadium, smaller fan base, and the finished the 2012 season ranked.
BYU did not. BYU also loses to teams at home and on the road to vastly smaller
WCC schools with small gyms and fan bases.
WACpaddled"Since when did those things become prerequisites to
be good in sports?"The first two, not so much, but significant
accomplishments on a national scale IS a pre-requisite to being considered
"good" in sports on a national scale.In the 20-year history
of the Director's Cup, which recognizes overall accomplishments of
men's and women's programs across all sports, BYU has finished ahead
of Utah 20 out of 20 years, usually by 20 to 40 places.Since 1972,
USC(25) and UCLA(20) are the only Western teams with more football Top 25
finishes than BYU(18). Utah(6) isn't even close.
This is news?! I thought it was universally understood and accepted that this
was the case. Of course ute fans care more about beating BYU than they do
playing in a bowl game. The BYU game IS their bowl game.I do openly
acknowledge NV's point that fewer Ute fans would be willing to trade the
Rose Bowl for a victory over BYU.
This is why the Utes don't win games in the PAC 12. Time to move on from
BYU folks. Ute fans love to crow about their membership in the PAC 12, but now
it's time to start acting like a real member. Time to set your sights
above an over-rated, over-hyped, weakling independent. I can't fathom why
any Ute fan would not see the greater value in wins over Cal, UCLA, USC, Wash,
etc over an unimpressive independent that mostly loses to the top teams in the
nation. Come on!
Imagine what the results would be if the question was between Utah going to a
bowl game or beating Colorado, their real rival.
@Wac paddingOutside of BYU's 23 Conference Champoinships over
40 years (compared to Utah's 5 in 50) every other BYU accomplishment is
"National" in scope.When the Utah football program can match
BYU's accomplishments, then get back to us.Until then, U are
just "Posing Wannabees" wearing "Masks of False Bravado".
Winning a bowl game is awesome, but watching BYU fans snivel, alibi, make
excuses and refuse to give credit when the Utes beat them is priceless.
Listening to Cougar nation beat on their chest about going to the Kraft Macaroni
and Cheese bowl year, after year, after year.........is nice to.
FatMan86"Time to move on from BYU folks."LOL!That's what Utah fans claimed they were doing THREE years ago when
Utah was invited to the PAC. Unfortunately for U, old habits are
hard to break. Utah's number one goal every year is, and always will be, to
beat BYU. Top 25 finishes and conference championships are something the Utes
rarely achieve because that takes an season-long commitment to accomplish.
It's much easier to focus all of your energy on winning one game, than to
bring it week after week after week.
It obviously depends on the bowl. Most bowls today don't mean squat. Only
about 10 bowl games are worth bragging about and for those .... certainly going
to the bowl is #1 above everything else. I do suspect however that if the U
loses to the Y they won't be going to any of those top ten bowls anyway
since the Y hasn't been ranked in the top 15 or 20 for quite some time.
@ blutoBYU's accomplishments WERE "national" in scope.
Nobody cares about the 80's anymore. Much like Army, BYU's powerhouse
days are long behind them. There isn't a single big-time program that brags
about finishing ranked; especially when it's as high as BYU usually
finishes. In today's game BYU is just another "good" mid-major
program with middle-of-the-road bowl games as its ceiling. Utah doesn't
have to get back to anyone; the school has moved on. It's fun
to compare records and debate about which team is better, but the reality is
that whatever happened in the past is completely irrelevant. What the two
programs do in the future is all that matters. And unfortunately for the BYU
die-hards, Utah is in a better position to succeed moving forward. The impact of
conf. affiliation and the increased revenue can already be seen at the U in the
way of facilities and recruiting rankings. It's only a matter of time
before the wins follow.
Duckhunter are you serious? Need to get your facts straight before you write
something that never comes down son. "When was the last time a talented Ute
deferred the NFL draft..." UH, A little guy names STAR did it last year!!!
"It was YOUR team who had been playing ho-hum, third tier mid-majors in a
mid-majorey bowl game..." 5 of the last 10 Bowl game U played in were
against Mid Majors VS 2 of the last 8 BYU has played in were Mid Majors.
"Hadn't been able to sell out the stadium..." What are you talking
about? BYU sells out MOST OF THEIR GAMES EVERY YEAR while having about 40% MORE
seats to fill than tiny R.E.C. And finally "pull out all the stops to
schedule a BYE before the rivalry game.." You obviously have NO clue how
scheduling works in college football. Utah chose that date this year NOT BYU.
There were 2 available dates in September for them to pick from and DR Hill
preferred to have a BYE before playing the Bruins. #lookingstupid
Bluto,Nice job of going back 50 years. I guess you have too when you
have been owned by your rival the last three meetings and 8 of the last 11. The
drop kick and leather helmets...those were the days.
A single game accomplishment over the national recognition of a bowl and
tradition of winning is a sign of a desperate program. While rivalry games are
important to many schools out there, few nationally recognized programs would
trade a winning record and bowl eligibility for a rivalry win.
patriot"I do suspect however that if the U loses to the Y they
won't be going to any of those top ten bowls anyway since the Y hasn't
been ranked in the top 15 or 20 for quite some time."Depends on
what your definition of "quite some time" is:BYU's
recent Top 15 Rankings2006 #16/#152007 #14/#152009 #12/#12As usual, certainly more often and more recent thanUtah's recent Top 15 Rankings2004 #4/#52008 #2/#4
Spokane UteRemind us how far back U have to go to get to FIVE Top 25
finishes.BYU can count that many in the Bronco/Kyle era.And since Utah fans are fond of citing their AP finishes,remind us
how far back U have to go to get to FIVE AP Top 25 finishes.On a
national scale, the Utes aren't even in the same ball park as BYU.That's why U have to cite your recent head-to-head success; U simply
can't compete with BYU in overall success.2011 #25/#26/#34
BYU(10-3) > unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)2012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) bowl
winner > unranked/#61 Utah(5-7) bowl no show
2fer"It's fun to compare records and debate about which
team is better, but the reality is that whatever happened in the past is
completely irrelevant. What the two programs do in the future is all that
matters."Utah fans only say this because the Utes have
practically NOTHING before 2004, only a couple of flash-in-the-pan seasons in
2004 and 2008, and NOTHING since.7-11 in the PAC in your first two
seasons isn't an anomaly, it IS your future.Welcome back to the
future where trying to beat BYU is your bowl game.Get used to it.
If Utah loses to BYU we aren't going bowling anyway. Why? because if we
are bad enough to lose to BYU we wont be good enough to find 6 other wins. That
is the quality of BYU vs. the quality of the rest of our schedule. I'm
sorry but BYU isn't that good.Both teams are made up with
players who have a lot of pride for there school, that is why the rivalry is so
intense and brings out the worst in many of us.
ajweston:That's not Duckhunter you're quoting there. That
was me. #lookingstupid"'When was the last time a talented
Ute deferred the NFL draft...' UH, A little guy names STAR did it last
year!!!"Your parsing of my words = epic fail. I did NOT say
"When was the last time a talented Ute deferred the NFL draft...". I
said, "When was the last time a talented Ute deferred the NFL draft...so
they wouldn't leave SLC 0-3 vs. their hated rival..." Do you see the
difference. Star DID return to play for his Senior year, but NOT because he
didn't want to leave 0-3 vs. his little brother. He was already 2-0 by the
time he decided to return. #lookingstupid"5 of the last 10 Bowl
game U played in were against Mid Majors VS 2 of the last 8 BYU has played in
were Mid Majors."First of all, 5 of the last 10 bowl games YOU
played were vs. mid-majors. Of OUR last 10, it was 4. Second, of your last 8,
it was vs. 3 mid-majors. Not 2. #lookingstupid
@sportsfan--AZUTE1"FSU was scheduled primarily for
recruiting purposes, in addition to the fact they're competitive."laughing hystericallyUtah already plays USC, UCLA, Stanford
and Cal; why on earth would the Utes need a 2015 game in Fresno "for
recruiting purposes"?As for "competitiveness":Overall - 36-29, 0-4 in bowlsTHAT's what you call
"competitive"?........--What are you, the authority on how
many games over in CA UTAH needs to play in order qualify as scheduling FSU for
recrulting-purposes?Are you also the authority on what constitutes,
"competitive"? You attempt to ridicule/mock me here, yet you point-out
the fact FSU remains above .500 and regularly plays in bowl games. The only
comparison I made was to the fact we beat byu, annually, and that FSU offers an
extra-benefit relative to recruiting. We all know UTAH already owns our state
in recruiting, but CA is enormous and is a place we need an even stronger
foot-hold in. And UTAH doesn't play all 4 CA in CA, annually.Contrary to the ubiquitous wishful-thinking down there in utah county, the
universe doesn't revolve around byu.
@ Spokane Ute"Listening to Cougar nation beat on their chest
about going to the Kraft Macaroni and Cheese bowl year, after year, after
year.........is nice to."What is better? Going to a bowl game or
going to the cupboard to pickup a bowl and trying to decide what chips to buy in
the store for bowl season? If your choice is the latter than
that's fine with me. BYU having a losing season is unsatisfactory for me
even if one of those wins were against the Utes. For BYU, I choose to watch them
in bowl season over putting chips in a bowl watching other teams play.
Oregonian said:"Imagine what the results would be if the
question was between Utah going to a bowl game or beating Colorado, their real
rival."The result would be no BYU in the conversation. Left out
in the cold like the independent path they are on.Funny how BYU fans throw
"rival" around. The have a losing record against both Utah and Colorado.
jdub1942"If Utah loses to BYU we aren't going bowling
anyway."Yet, BYU IS good enough to go bowling and to be ranked
even after a blow-out loss to Utah."...if we are bad enough to
lose to BYU we wont be good enough to find 6 other wins."U
weren't even good enough to find 6 wins even with a narrow win over BYU.While Utah's entire season hangs in the balance with a win or loss
to the Cougars, BYU's program is mature enough to understand that one game
does not a season make.
For instance, UTAH only plays ONCE in CA in 2013, at USC. Furthermore, UTAH
misses CAL in '13 and '14. USC/UCLA rotate opposite each-other
against UTAH, annually. Stanford will be at home again in 2015.Once
again, UTAH doesn't play all 4 CA PAC-12 schools in CA each season and
won't always be guaranteed to play Stanford/CAL, since they play in The
North Division.FSU is one more opportunity for CA recruits to play
in front of their people in their home-state and is an area we recruit in, which
makes playing them at home important, too. Additionally, some recruits know
players at FSU, to boot.Again, byu does nothing for us beyond a
guaranteed victory to pad our record, annually, not to mention the satisfaction
of seeing the implosion following beating them, as we witnessed w/bm and falslev
this last season. No further impact on recruiting, etc.
I find it to be hysterical when byu fans continuously point to our loss to CU 2
years ago. This was during the same, exact season we utterly destroyed byu on
their homefield, 54-10. Just imagine what CU would've done to byu then.
It's laughable that our little brothers spend so much time trying to
minimize the only half-decent team the Utes have beaten since joining the
PAC.It's even more hilarious when they try to make ANY bowl
pale in comparison to the couch potato bowl the Utes played in last season.Didn't the Emerald (Kraft Fight Hunger) and Poinsettia Bowls
account for ONE-THIRD of the bowls in that 9-bowl winning streak Utah fans used
to brag about incessantly?
@Wacked Pad and Spoked UteLegacy programs are built over
generations.They are an accumulation of notable and rare achievements.A resume' if you will.Your willingness to dismiss BYU's long
record of achievement only shows your own jealousy and desperation, because,
your program has none of these things.Legacy/National Brand
programs, tout their long list of achievements all day long, it's who they
are and where they've been.When Oklahoma was in the dumper and
losing to everyone in sight, it didn't matter, once they righted the ship,
they were still Oklahoma. Ditto Texas, Florida State, USC, Washington,
UCLA, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.Legacy matters.There is
no room for "Pretenders" regarding National Brand or Legacy, 5 good
years in 50 won't get U there, sorry. It's earned over
"Generations"... see BYU.Whenever BYU or any other Legacy
School plays on ESPN, they make note of their history and past.They show
their Heisman, Outlands, and Hall of Famers. Only Wannabee
program's fans, without a legacy, runs down actual programs who have actual
achievements.What a sorry state to be in.Helooo 3&11
@y'slb--"Since 1972, USC(25) and UCLA(20) are the only
Western teams with more football Top 25 finishes than BYU(18). Utah(6)
isn't even close."Right on cue, yet another byu-fan omits
the obvious qualifier here and that's SOS. You really ought to go back and
include each school's respective SOS ranking, annually, when making such a
comparison, if you truly wish to be objective.For instance,
byu's SOS ranked 96th out of 98 total D-1 schools ranked in 1984, beginning
with 3-7-1 PITT and ending with 6-6 Michigan.
AZUTE1"--What are you, the authority on how many games over in
CA UTAH needs to play in order qualify as scheduling FSU for
recrulting-purposes?"It doesn't take an "authority"
to recognize blowing smoke.The good doctor himself admitted that the
reason he dropped BYU from Utah's schedule for 2014 and 2015 was because he
didn't think the Utes were good enough to play both Michigan AND BYU in the
@ajwestonUh....are you sure you are talking to the right person? I
didn't post any of the stuff you are crediting me with. As a matter of fact
I'm not sure anyone wrote any of that stuff. Perhaps you need to do a
little remedial work and get your self sorted out.
Mark123Um Utah has been to a bowl game 9 of the last 10 years; but
great job of pinning the entire progams success on last year. Typical. SportsguyLet's stay current guy. Utah finished number 2 in
the AP rankings in 2008-2009. When was the last time BYU did that Mr. Helper?
The word "authority" appears to be off target; as usual. I guess
anything but give your rival credit when due.
upinthenightIt's funny how you distort the truth to fit your
own version of reality.BYU's last two games versus Colorado
were a 20-17 BYU win in the Freedom Bowl and a 41-20 beat down of the Buffs in
Boulder. BYU hasn't lost to Colorado since a 7-9 setback at Colorado in
1947. Hardly comparable to Utah getting dominated at home (see 2011 1st half
stats) by a 10-loss Colorado team with a gift-wrapped PAC South title on the
line.The real answer to the question of whether Utah fans would
rather go to a bowl or beat Colorado would be stunned silence from the kids on
the hill. Beating Colorado isn't even on their radar.
I suspect most U fans would rather beat USC and Oregon and put themselves back
on the BCS map. As far as BYU goes.. I think that rivalry is dying and will soon
be more of a who cares game. The Y has more to gain by beating the U than the
other way around. Wow - can't believe I said that. Times sure have changed.
Another DN article stroking the little independent school down south fans egos.
Note how many of the BYU faithful think this is true. Most of them are trying to
live in 1984 because it's the only thing they have left twenty nine years
I understand that byu fans can't hang their hat on beating UTAH,
head-to-head, and they can't hang their hat on actually beating good teams
on a regular-bases, hence all this talk about these polls, influenced greatly by
human-error and its inherent arbitrary-nature. Even the BCS poll still has this
influence to compliment the myriad computer-rankings.2011 is an
Instant-Classic. byu fans somehow believe them beating a slew of patsies to end
their season, [in order to pad their record, only to have these East Coast human
voters merely glance at final-records, with absolutely zero consideration given
to SOS, and allowing byu to slip into 1 of the polls in the very last spot],
even remotely magically mitigates 100% the 44-point margin UTAH whooped byu by
during the season on their homefield and concluding byu was the better team in
AZUTE1"Right on cue, yet another byu-fan omits the obvious
qualifier here and that's SOS."Right on cue, another Utah
apologist trying to pretend that Utah's paltry number of appearances in the
Top 25 is a result of Utah's SOS.Someday our little friends on
the hill will understand that SOS is meaningless if you don't win and Top
25 finishes are determined by consistent winning, rather than occasionally
beating a good team.It's interesting that Utah fans use beating
a ranked BYU team in 2008 to validate their 2008 season, yet question the
validity of BYU's ranking. The inconsistency is truly laughable.
Silent Lurker"Another DN article stroking the little independent
school down south fans egos."LOL at your delusional spin!The article is based on a Utah Football Blog!Are you really
trying to assert that Utah football fans would be trying to stroke the egos of
their big brothers or are you too embarrassed to admit Ute Nation's total
obsession with BYU?
@ Spokane Ute"Um Utah has been to a bowl game 9 of the last 10
years; but great job of pinning the entire progams success on last year.
Typical."Well you know what they say, "it's not about
what have you done for me in the past, but what have you done for me
lately." Who cares about 9 of the last 10 years. What happened last year is
all that matters. I'm not hypocritical, I hold BYU to the same standard.
Even though the euphoria of the National Championship in '84 is cool to
reminisce about, I don't throw it around all the time like some BYU fans
do. Under that standard, BYU's 8-5 with a bowl victory is greater than
Utah's 5-7 without a bowl. You asked for credit, I'll give you credit
Utah beat BYU last year, but you guys finished 5-7. That SUCKS! So stop treating
your season like it's a success because you beat BYU. BYU's season was
not great but it wasn't terrible either. Much rather have that than your
AZUTE1"I understand that byu fans can't hang their hat on
beating UTAH, head-to-head, and they can't hang their hat on actually
beating good teams on a regular-bases[sic],..."When has Utah
ever beaten good teams on a regular basis?The fact that Utah has
only appeared in the AP Top 25 FIVE times in their entire history is proof
enough that you're just blowing smoke.The real difference
between BYU being a perennial Top 25 team and Utah being a perennial unranked
team is BYU seldom loses to BAD teams like 10-loss Colorado and 10-loss UNLV.BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams in 2012, beating one, and losing to three
others, all on the road, by a total of 10 points. BYU also beat Georgia Tech and
SDSU. Utah played TWO Top 25 teams in 2012 and U lost to both. U
haven't beaten a single conference team with a winning record during the
past two seasons, yet U whine about BYU's SOS. Who did U beat
in 2012 or 2011 besides BYU?
@ midpacmajorSo you're saying that what BYU did in the
80's will somehow have an impact on the upcoming season? Swing
and a miss.
AZUTE1Unlike Utah, BYU didn't LOSE to one of the worst teams in
the country on their home turf in 2011.The East Coast voters are
smart enough to figure out that no team deserves to be ranked when they finish
with a mediocre 8-5 record and get dominated on their home field by a team that
hadn't won a road game in three years.BYU finished 25th and
26th in the Coaches and AP polls; Utah didn't get a single vote in either
poll.Sagarin ranked BYU #34 and BYU's bowl opponent, Tulsa,
#35. He ranked Utah #39 and Utah's bowl opponent, Georgia Tech, #56.Stop whining about SOS. The only decent team you've beaten in the
past two seasons is BYU, and you were lucky to escape with a win in 2012.
patriot"The Y has more to gain by beating the U than the other
way around."Don't kid yourself; the entire self-image of
the Utah fanbase is tied at the hip with beating BYU.BYU has much
bigger fish to fry than beating a big boy conference bottom dweller.
twofer"So you're saying that what BYU did in the 80's
will somehow have an impact on the upcoming season?"What BYU did
in the 80's established a track record that has been validated over and
over by consistent Top 25 finishes since 1977 (18 in 36 years).That
pattern has continued into the Bronco/Kyle era.Top 25 FinishesBronco 5Kyle 3Top 15 FinishesBronco 3Kyle 1When it comes to ranking teams at the end of a season, voters remember
which teams have been perennial contenders, and which teams have been perennial
Let's compare....BYU (4-4), at Notre Dame in 2012, when Notre Dame
was ranked #5.Notre Dame 17...BYU 14To Utah at
Notre Dame in 2010, when Utah was ranked #14 and N.D was 5-5..Notre Dame
Spokane Ute ".... Kraft Macaroni and Cheese bowl year, after
year, after year..."When the PAC10 announced their tie-in to the
Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl they were thinking of the U maybe someday making sixth
place. Then they thought well we will make easier and have that seventh bowl
game as a back-up in New Mexico.I love how hypocritical Ute fans
disparage the very bowl games the PAC 10.2 embraced for the bottom dwellers of
their conference.And let's not forget the Las Vegas Bowl where
Boise State owns the Utes.You Utes would have been stampeding the
ticket office for a seat at either of those 'lower tier' bowl games.
Say, what?"The self-proclaimed unscientific poll sheds an
interesting light on the passion and importance that fans place on the game each
year."Unscientific polls are just that, unscientific.Because they are unsubstantiated, unreliable, un-replicatable, statistically
insignificant, and useless.Ask anyone who has actually passed
BYU fans crack me up. Utah goes 8-5 their first year (2012) in the Pac and it
is dubbed as a bad season by BYU fans, yet when BYU goes 8-5 last year with a
much easier schedule it is a GREAT season. So hypocritical. I love the fact
that some BYU fans are so delusional that they honestly think, going forward in
the next few years, that they are more primed to compete for a BCS bowl game
than Utah. First of all, did it ever cross your minds that you are going into
the hardest schedule in BYU school history this year? And that for the two years
that BYU has been independent they have they have averaged a 65 ranking for
recruiting (70 for 2013 and 61 in 2012 according to Rivals). You will find out
the hard way this year, just as Utah did last year, that more depth and talent
is necessary to compete with better teams and you simply don't have it. I
know the Utes aren't world beaters but at least they have averaged a 36
rating (28 in 2012 and 44 in 2013).
to Uteanymous on 5/28 @ 23:33Utes will go to the Rose Bowl long
before the y EVER cracks the BCS or whatever collective The big boys (P12,
etc...) play in.To Bluto on 5/29.Thanks for the history
lesson. NOT! Get back to us when byu is a true legacy program like OU, Texas,
Notre Dame, Michigan, USC, Bama, etc...
to AZUTE1 5/29 3:36p Using a byu's favorite tool (circular
logic) against them; that's funny.
I believe that our past 2 years of recruiting will come to fruition this year as
we have addressed many of the areas that we struggled with last year (OL depth,
QB stability, WR depth, RB depth, LB depth, etc.). I get that the recruiting
ranking and star system isn't always accurate but its simple numbers that
the better recruiting classes mean the better talent which equals more wins.
Couple Utah's depth with a 7 home game schedule and the fact that they
don't leave the state til October, an 8-4 season is an attainable goal.
Most likely though, the Utes go 7-5 or 6-6. But if I were a BYU fan I would be
very worried, its already clear that Taysom will have knee problems, especially
with his most recent injury. You only have 1 great WR in Hoffman. The U lost
Star which will be tough to replace but you lost Ansah which will have just as
equal difficulty in replacing. You also lost your best corner in Hadley. The U
replaces corners as well but our Db's last year were not worth bragging
about anyway and we have very speedy guys replacing them.
@AZUtE1"For instance, byu's SOS ranked 96th out of 98 total D-1
schools ranked in 1984, beginning with 3-7-1 PITT and ending with 6-6
Michigan."Are you inferring when a team goes undefeated
isn't deserving of a shot at a NC if their SOS is weak? Hypothetically
speaking, What if it's a team as good as Alabama was last year but they
happen to be in a lousy conference that gives them a terrible SOS? Does that
make them lousy? There's not a lot of control a team has over getting
quality opponents on their schedule (ute fans should know this) when you're
in a big conference. Also teams are typically scheduled several
years out. They might have been a top 25 ranked team when you scheduled them but
5-7 yrs later when you actually play them they might have gone through one or
more coaching changes and could be absolutely terrible. SOS is just a small
piece of the story, even in the BCS rankings it's only a small piece and
carries no more weight than the number of losses a team has or it's avg
ranking in the polls.
@mussingaroundI stated that the DN (Deseret News) was stroking the egos of
the little independent fans down south. Not myself or the Utah fan base. It has
been the BYU fans complaining because Utah does not want to waste a game
playing them any longer. BYU has been left behind, none of the big five
conferences want them so they have no choice but to go it
alone.(Independently)@arrogant chickensActually Dr. Hill
stated that "they did not want to play both teams in the same year". You
drew the conclusion of not being good enough. After all Utah has won eight of
the last eleven and the last three in a row, BYU has hardly the record of an
opponent striking the fear of being played by Utah.
BYU's record for 2013: 5-7You heard it here first. They lost talent
(Like a top 5 NFL pick) from a 7-5 team and play a much harder schedule, yet
they think somehow they are going 9-3 or 10-2? HA....pure delusion! Utah has
found QB stability and added much depth, add in a proven offensive coordinator
with up tempo offense and a bowl game will be attended this year by Utah.
@arrogant chickensActually Dr. Hill stated that "Utah did not want to
play both teams in the same year". You drew the conclusion of not being good
enough. After all Utah has won eight of the last eleven and the last three in a
row, this is hardly the record of an opponent striking fear in the hearts of the
Utes. Truth is Utah views this as a nothing game when played. (nothing to win
and nothing to lose)
Silent Lurker"BYU has hardly the record of an opponent striking
the fear of being played by Utah."Don't kid yourself; BYU
is EXACTLY the type of opponent that strikes fear into the hill crowd.It doesn't take a genius to infer that when Chris Hill chose to drop BYU
in favor Fresno St that he was simply being realistic enough to recognize that
Utah's recent head-to-head success could easily turn in BYU's favor
and that locking in two OOC losses for 2014 and 2015 could easily prevent the
Utes from qualifying for a bowl. A team that isn't capable of
finishing with a winning PAC record MUST win at least two OOC games in order to
be bowl eligible. 13 of the last 16 BYU-Utah games including most of
the games during the disastrous Crowton era were decided by a touchdown or less
in the closing minutes or in overtime.Despite what the kids on hill
may claim, BYU is a serious threat to Utah's bowl chances.
Mister J"Utes will go to the Rose Bowl long before the Y EVER
cracks the BCS or whatever...[blah, blah, blah"Utah fans are
fond of making wild predictions based on nothing but their own crimson-colored
fantasies.BYU is a LOT closer to being a legacy program like
Oklahoma than the Utes will ever be.Athlon Magazine recently named
BYU's 1979 through 1985 era one the Top 25 DYNASTIES during the AP era.TCU and Boise St were also mentioned, but the Utes were completely
ignored.BYU had more AP Top 25 finishes during that one 7-year
period, than the Utes have had during their entire history.
Yes, it's everyone's dream to beat the Cougars. This story is just
additional proof. It's not an easy burden, but it's what we face for
being such a great all around institution with high standards What a great
compliment it is that folks admire the Cougars so much.
Of course Utah fans would say that! They didn't make it to a bowl game! If
they had lost to BYU, but still gone to a bowl game and BYU didn't go to a
bowl game, they would say that the bowl game is more important. BYU fans say the
bowl game is more important because we lost to Utah and then went to the bowl
game. It all depends on the situation people are in.
The nation watched as Utah fans rushed the field THREE times for one victory
over an arch-rival they're suddenly claiming they don't care about
because beating BYU has become so predictable and routine.Denial
isn't just a river in Egypt; it apparently gushes from a hill in SLC.
Beat BYU or beat USC?Another silly question. Yes.I for
one...USC...duh.BYU is not close to the game of the year.
So, what I get from these comments is that the BYU stadium is really really big
and the Utah stadium is too small. I think the Utes should play
their November home games in Provo, since BYU's home season is over. ...problem solved.
Those that can't cheer for more than one team is missing out on half the
fun.BYU is going into the toughest season of their lives. I really
hope they do well. I am excited to go to the Texas game.Utah is into
the toughest season ever with Stanford and Oregon. I will be at the Stanford
game and in L.A. for the USC game.Call me delusional, but I hope to
see all wins. As for the rivalry, a break will be healthy. I think
most fans would choose to stop the Utah/BYU game for a year or two if both teams
could play Michigan.
@deductive reasoning"Athlon Magazine recently named BYU's
1979 through 1985 era one the Top 25 DYNASTIES during the AP era."What did they name BYU during the BCS era? A "Quest Still in
Progress"?"BYU had more AP Top 25 finishes during that one
7-year period, than the Utes have had during their entire history."Utah has more undefeated seasons in those 7 years than BYU has it's
entire history.Utah has as many top 5 finishes in those 7 years than BYU
has it's entire history. Utah beat more final ranked teams in those
7 years than BYU did since 1984.
Cowboy DudeBoth teams are playing Michigan in 2014.
steeleuteSandy, UTFunny when Ute fans predict a 9-3 or 10-2 it
is optimism. When a BYU fan does the same thing it is "HA....pure
delusion!" How is that? BYU has a new OC Utah has a new OC. BYU lost a
first rounder, Utah lost a first rounder. BYU has lots of starters comming back
in key positions. I'm guessing Utah and key players coming back. Utah is
braking in a new QB BYU is braking in a new QB. BYU is coming off a winning
record and a bowl win.
Sammy G said:"And let's not forget the Las Vegas Bowl where
Boise State owns the Utes."--And let's not forget the
Utah-BYU rivalry where Utah owns the Cougs.Check Mate!
Most of the Utah fans I know are very pleased to see the "rivalry" fade
away. The acrimony involved with the game such as is demonstrated in these
comments, is best seen in the rear view mirror. Why play this game with so many
enjoyable challenges ahead of us.
@killarneyYou like so many other BYU fans are still trying to live in the
70's and 80's. Please turn your calendar over this is 2013,BYU has not
been feared by the Utes in the last 20 years if ever. Fact is Utah is just tired
of your stick.It's not Utah begging to play BYU! It's BYU begging to
play Utah. Utah has a full schedule of quality teams that BYU is just begging to
Uteology,Your desperation is quite apparent. Remember that one
primary reason why the BCS was created was because BYU beat Kansas State in the
Cotton Bowl. The BCS will be dead very quickly.Only the Ute fans
like you beat their chests and crow about being a bride's maid. Its simply
pathetic. Two good seasons does not make a dynasty or even a national brand;
especially when your team has been ranked in the final polling like what, 5
times ever?Finally Check your facts. Final rankings for 1984 has
BYU consensus #1 and 1996 consensus #5. Even Wikipedia got that right.
Uteology,Tell us when BYU has had a losing season in the last seven
years. How about the Utes? I will make that one easy, last year.FYI,
your attempt to minimize BYU being recognized by Athlon as having a dynasty
fails miserably, is a red herring and illogical. The fact is what it is. Are you
going minimize Notre Dame, Texas, Michigan, etc. because their dynasties were in
the AP era?There is no dynasty in the BCS's very short era by a
single college team. About the only thing one can say is that the SEC has
dominated. Utah does not belong to the SEC.
MacNastyHow did Utah fare against the big bad SEC? Who's the
last non-SEC team to beat Alabama?You do realize that the PAC 12 has
played the SEC dead even since 2000 don't you?Just
askin.....Tell us about BYU's BCS bowl games; that one is easy,
Silent Lurker"BYU fans are still trying to live in the 70's
and 80's."LOL!Bronco/Kyle era (current era)Top 25 FinishesBronco 5Kyle 3Top 15 FinishesBronco 3Kyle 1Conference ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 110+ Win SeasonsBronco 5Kyle 3Overall
RecordBronco 74-29Kyle 70-32Bowl GamesBronco 8Kyle 7Year-by-Year Overall Winner/Ranking/Record
(AP/Coaches/Sagarin)Utah 2005 unranked/#55 BYU(6-6) < unranked/#51
Utah(7-5)BYU 2006 #16/#15/#19 BYU(11-2) > unranked/#54 Utah(8-5)BYU 2007 #14/#15/#17 BYU(11-2) > unranked/#34 Utah(9-4)Utah 2008
#25/#21/#32 BYU(10-3) < #2/#4/#5 Utah(13-0)BYU 2009 #12/#12/#15
BYU(11-2) > #18/#18/#24 Utah(10-3)Utah 2010 unranked/#45 BYU(7-6)
< ur/#23/#26 Utah(10-3)BYU 2011 #26/#25/#34 BYU(10-3) >
unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)BYU 2012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) > unranked/#61
Utah(5-7)Bronco has finished with a better record and higher ranking
in 5 of the 8 seasons during the Bronco/Kyle era.
It looks like Skywalker left out head to head games and BCS games. Now
that's curious? Just an over sight I'm sure.
Spokane Ute,Huh,when did Utah get its invite to the PAC. I think it
was 2010. Talk about trying to ride coat tails. How many national
championships have the Utes won since being members of the PAC. You talk the
talk, but you have not even taken one step in walking the walk. Feeling superior
by just association is a fantasy. Most everyone see you taking advantage of the
PAC's reputation, and in return contributing to this point, nothing.Utah did beat a discouraged Alabama team that did not have its best
player playing in the game. Was that like 5 years ago? BTW, I rooted for the
Utes that game.BYU went into SEC country and won two years ago. OK?
I can just hear you say, "yeah but that was Mississippi." That is right.
I guess a team who was a member of the WAC (which Ute fans continually
belittle), Utah State, can say they beat a PAC 12 team last year. I can just
hear fans from other PAC 12 schools say, "yeah,but that was just Utah."
Re: Spokane fan,Did the Utes win a national championship in the BCS
era? No, and really nobody cares who came in second or fifth. Brides'
maids are not remembered except in their own minds. The BCS ends
this year as in goes away, rides into the sunset, terminates, over, done,
fin.Time to move on.
Spokane UteStill trying to pretend that 1/12th of a season is the
measuring stick for determining which team is better?Was Texas
A&M(11-2) better than BCS National Champion Alabama(13-1) in 2012?(If so, then why didn't Texas A&M play in the BCS Championship game
which is supposed to match the two BEST teams in the country?)Was
Colorado(3-10) better than Utah(8-5) in 2011?Was UNLV(2-10) better than
Utah(9-4) in 2007?Answer those questions honestly and without any
qualifiers and you'll have your answer why head-to-head isn't the most
important factor in determining which team is better.
shorts,I have not heard any Utah fan predict a 9 or 10 win season
this year. deductive reasoning,To be a legacy program
like Oklahoma you have to actually make it to BCS games and WIN them. Something
Utah has done twice in the last decade. BYU hasn't even been able to sniff
at BCS bowl.
Uteology"What did they [Athlon Magazine] name BYU during the BCS
era?One of "College Football's Top 25 Greatest Dynasties of
the AP Era" (1936 to present), of which the BCS era is only a minor
subset.Boise State (2006-11) and TCU (2008-11) were both mentioned
in "Best of the Rest"Utah's brief little
flash-in-the-pan successes in 2004 and 2008 didn't even rate a mention.
Re: 965The stats are the stats. Nothing delusional about them.
They are what they are. You need to be reminded that Utah was only in the PAC
2011, 2012. Before that it was in the MWC as was BYU with the same type
schedule, OK? The two years you have been in the PAC the Utes did not play the
best teams and still came up around the bottom. This year the Utes will play
both Oregon and Stanford.Oh yeah, using your logic, like you said of
Notre Dame, let's say of USC, Stanford and Oregon; they won't be as
good as last year, even less since they didn't play in the BCS NC.
MacNasty said, "There is no dynasty in the BCS's very short era by a
single college team. About the only thing one can say is that the SEC has
dominated. Utah does not belong to the SEC."Bama is the Dynasty
and Utah thumped them.
steeleuteSorry to disappoint U, but legacy programs are built over
decades of continual success, not with a couple of flash-in-the-pan seasons.BYU has been a perennial Top 25 team since 1977 (18 of 36 seasons; 50%),
with a National Championship, a Heisman Trophy winner, 6 National College
Football Hall of Fame Players, and 15 National Individual Award Winners.Utah only has FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history.
Utah's team and players have never won a single national award of any kind.
"Bama is the Dynasty and Utah thumped them."Utah thumped
Alabama in an off year when the Utes played a disinterested Alabama team that
never considered Utah much of a threat.
Spokane UteIt looks like you're avoiding answering the
questions:Was Texas A&M(11-2) better than BCS National Champion
Alabama(13-1) in 2012?Was Colorado(3-10) better than Utah(8-5) in 2011?Was UNLV(2-10) better than Utah(9-4) in 2007?A simple yes or no
for each will do. No spin or qualifiers needed.
Snack PACOlympus Cove, Utah"Bama is the Dynasty and Utah thumped
them."Utah thumped Alabama in an off year when the Utes played a
disinterested Alabama team that never considered Utah much of a threat.__________Was Alabama disinterested when the lost to A&M?Was BYU disinterested when they lost to Utah, BSU, Oregon St., ND and San Jose
St.?How could an alleged Legacy program be owned by SJ St. of the
Snack PAC "Utah thumped Alabama in an off year when the Utes played a
disinterested Alabama team that never considered Utah much of a threat."Bama was ranked #1 a good part of the year and played Florida for the
SEC Championship. Bama led 20-10 in the 4th quarter. Florida went on the the
National Championship winning the entire second half over Oklahoma.What would have happened if Utah had played Florida for the championship
@ Snack WAC"Utah thumped Alabama in an off year when the Utes
played a disinterested Alabama team that never considered Utah much of a
MacNasty:"Remember that one primary reason why the BCS was
created was because BYU beat Kansas State in the Cotton Bowl."The reason the BCS was created was because of the number of split NC's
under the old system (i.e. Michigan and Nebraska back in '97) that resulted
because of bowl tie-ins preventing #1 from playing #2 every year. That had
nothing to do with the Indy-WACers. But typical of your ilk to try to take
credit for it.
skywalker:"Bronco has finished with a better record and higher
ranking in 5 of the 8 seasons during the Bronco/Kyle era."Yes,
Bronco scheduled and beat more FCS teams, and the weakest teams in the WAC than
Utah whereas Utah actually accepted the challenge to play a competitive slate
that resulted in more losses. You'll get no argument from Ute fans that
there were "more wins". But just because you scheduled and beat more
FCS and weak WAC teams than we did, that doesn't suggest you have the
better program. It just suggests your SOS is weak and you're not
"ready" to play a big-boy schedule.What defines who the
better team is, is the head-to-head battles on the field of play. Utah/Whittingham: 5-3Indy-WAC/Mendenmidmajor: 3-5Edge:
MacNasty:"Utah did beat a discouraged Alabama team that did not
have its best player playing in the game."Not according to the
color analyst immediately prior to the kickoff, who remarked that any concerns
Alabama would overlook Utah would be mistaken. He described the Alabama team as
"upbeat" in their pre-game practices and warm-ups. Fail.Oh,
and speaking of not an impact player in the game, Utah played the Indy-WACers
sans their starters at QB, RB, FS, and SS....and STILL won that game. In fact,
THAT game was won by the end of the 3rd quarter.
Are any of the commenters here embarrassed to have lives so devoid of substance
that they have time to conduct exhaustive research and collect statistics to
build a one-sided case against a rival, OVER A GAME?!? And then hyperventilate
to expose their comical blindness to any reasonable difference of opinion over
the comparative relevance and significance of indisputable data?Plenty of good comments and banter here, but my goodness a few of you really
need a priority check. If you're a professional sports analyst, my
apologies and keep up the good work, but I suspect none on this thread has such
a career. It seems like a few are pathologically obsessed with connecting your
value to your team's superiority, and can't recognize just how
unhinged you look to sane people.
Just shows how stupid Ute fans are. BYU fans say "why choose? We'll do
navelvetStill pretending that even in the BCS era pollsters
don't consider SOS when ranking teams???It's laughable
that Utah fans brag every time the Utes beat a ranked team, then in the same
breath, question the validity of the rankings.Sorry, U can't
have it both ways.BYU's rankings are just as legitimate as any
other team's rankings.BYU played FIVE ranked teams in 2012,
including TWO ranked WAC teams; Utah only played ONE ranked PAC team in 2012,
and lost to them and the only WAC team the Utes played.When are Utah
fans going to stop using SOS as an excuse for losing?
SportsAuthority,Obviously they were on that day! Are you that
@ Ball PlayerWhen?
According to an unscientific poll, 64% of Cougar fans say being independent is
worth it, even though it means never beating their rival again.
NavelVet"What defines who the better team is, is the
head-to-head battles on the field of play."Head-to-head is only
one measuring stick.Answer the following questions TRUTHFULLY, with
a simple yes/no answer, and you'll understand why:Was Texas
A&M(11-2) better than BCS National Champion Alabama(13-1) in 2012?Was
Colorado(3-10) better than Utah(8-5) in 2011?Was UNLV(2-10) better than
Utah(9-4) in 2007?
Spokane UteObviously they were on that day!Obviously,
you're not willing the answer the questions with an honest, unqualified,
straight-forward, yes/no answer because either your answer would look silly or
you would invalidate your entire head-to-head narrative.It's
interesting that the BCS "formula" for determining which teams are
invited to play in the BCS championship game COULDN'T CARE LESS about
head-to-head results in determining which two teams are better.
Navel Vet"Not according to the color analyst immediately prior
to the kickoff, who remarked that any concerns Alabama would overlook Utah would
be mistaken. He described the Alabama team as "upbeat" in their pre-game
practices and warm-ups. Fail."Since the color analyst
wasn't on the field, his "impressions" are really quite
meaningless.It was obvious to anyone who watched the game that
Alabama was flat and played with no emotion for most of the game, especially
during the first half when Utah jumped out to a big lead.Colorado's game at Utah in 2011 and Utah's game versus Alabama in
2008 were remarkably similar in that respect.That, btw, is why they
call those kinds of wins "upsets", because the better team didn't
According to an unscientific poll, 64% of Utah fans are really just BYU-haters
who wouldn't have any reason to remain Utah fans if the U stopped playing
@ skywalkerLike many BYU fans you like to cherry pick your stats.
That's OK if that is what floats your boat. Did my post refrence the Bronko
vs. Kyle era? No it did not. But since you brought it up what is the head to
head win loss record during that time? Try to spin that. I know it will be hard
with your BYU education and reading skill set but please re read my comment. I
said BYU fans are still trying to live in the 70 and 80 or more correctly in
your case is should have read cherry picking a favorable portion of time. My
comment referenced the time since the 80's That's from the 90's
forward or say the last twenty years.You conveniently left off the years from
1990 to present, Why? You conveniently want to include the last two years when
BYU played a list of 6-8 patsies, and while Utah was playing 8-9 BCS level
teams. Why? This year you have what four or five BCS level teams to play. How
well have you done against BCS lever teams in the past 23 years? Or even better
Since Utah went to the Pac-12 and BYU became independent Utah has a .450 winning
percentage versus BCS opponents and BYU has a .400 winning percentage against
BCS opponents. That is without considering BYU a BCS opponent. Also in head to
head matches Utah has outscored BYU 78-31.
"It's interesting that the BCS "formula" for determining which
teams are invited to play in the BCS championship game COULDN'T CARE LESS
about head-to-head results in determining which two teams are better."----------Really? So win loss record doesn't factor into the BCS
formula according to your logic. How can you have a good record if you
don't beat teams head to head? Maybe the BCS formula is based on the
team's uniform color. Maybe Bama got in to the championship due to their
mascot; obviously there head to head competition, or games played on the field
mean't absolutely nothing. Now I've heard it all; absolutely amazing
Was Texas A&M(11-2) better than BCS National Champion Alabama(13-1) in
2012?Was Colorado(3-10) better than Utah(8-5) in 2011?Was UNLV(2-10)
better than Utah(9-4) in 2007?---------Yes Texas A&M was a
better team. They were a slight underdog, won at Bama, and didn't lose
another game that year. Utah was better, but Colorado out played them on
that day. Colorado was a HUGE underdog and pulled off a Big, Big upset.Utah was better, but UNLV out played them on that day. UNLV was a HUGE
underdog and pulled off one of the biggest upsets in the history of their
program.I don't recall Utah ever being a HUGE underdog when they beat
BYU over the past 10-12 years. Since you claim to be the authority; correct me
if I'm wrong. Nice job of picking some of the biggest upsets ever to happen
to the Utes though. I love the way the authority hand picks the games to fit his
agenda. I've never seem him do that before. Ha Ha
LetsDebate "Are any of the commenters here embarrassed to have lives so
devoid of substance that they have time to conduct exhaustive research and
collect statistics to build a one-sided case against a rival, OVER A
GAME?!?"Many "commenters" are season ticket holders and
traveling post season supporters. They know because they were there. It's
Spokane UteIn 2012, Texas A&M BEAT Alabama 29-25 at Alabama. According to your logic, since Texas A&M won the head-to-head, Texas
A&M proved they were BETTER than Alabama. Right? Period, end of story.So why wasn't Texas A&M invited to the BCS championship game
instead of Alabama?Isn't the BCS supposed to match the two BEST
teams in the championship game?Either the head-to-head Alabama-Texas
A&M matchup really didn't determine which team was better, or the BCS
messed up and invited the wrong team.Which is it?
Spokane Ute"Texas A&M was a better team [than Alabama]"
- but didn't get invited to the NC?"Utah was better [than
Colorado]" - but lost the head-to-head?"Utah was better
[than UNLV]" - but lost the head-to-head?It's obvious that
your head-to-head standard for determining which team is better really depends
entirely on your own personal opinion.
@talkinsports"It was obvious to anyone who watched the game that
Alabama was flat and played with no emotion for most of the game, especially
during the first half when Utah jumped out to a big lead."LOL!
spokaneute"I love the way the authority hand picks the games to
fit his agenda."There are literally dozens of games every week
where the head-to-head winner isn't necessarily the better team; Authority
simply picked a few, albeit extreme, examples.That's why
overall win/loss records and rankings for an entire season are much more
reliable indicators of which team was really better.
TheSportsAuthorityArlington, VAnavelvetBYU played FIVE
ranked teams in 2012, including TWO ranked WAC teams; Utah only played ONE
ranked PAC team in 2012, and lost to them and the only WAC team the Utes
played.When are Utah fans going to stop using SOS as an excuse for
losing?____________When are BYU fans going to stop
coming up with excuses when they lose to ranked teams?What was BYUs
record against ranked teams in 2012?
@Cow Dude - I haven't missed a football game of my preferred team in many
years. I'm sure Naval Vet et al. are just pulling statistics out of their
memories from attending games. Sure. Believe it or not, one can be a fan and
not foam at the mouth every time someone prefers BYU over Utah, or vice
versa.It's called "getting a life." Most here
don't need that advice. Some do.
WACpaddledBYU played FIVE ranked teams, beating one, and losing to
three of them on the road by a total of 10 points. One of those losses, of
course, was to a BCS championship game team, by 3 points. At least BYU beat a
ranked team in 2012; along with ACC division champion Georgia Tech and MWC
tri-championship SDSU.Who did U beat in 2012?Utah played
TWO ranked teams and lost both games.BYU only lost to ONE unranked
team, a narrow 3-point loss on the home field of their arch rival in a game that
wasn't decided until the final play of the game.What was
Utah's excuse for losing to FIVE unranked teams?It's
obvious why Sagarin ranked BYU #26 and Utah #61 in 2012. Despite the relatively
small difference in SOS, Utah's accomplishments pale in comparison even to
BYU's rather modest accomplishments.
@DeepBlueGame, set, match....
@DeepBlueThat doesn't fit the utah "fan" delusion. Quit
Wow, I have really hit a nerve here; awesome. This debate all stands from my
position that Utah was better than BYU last year. BYU finished ranked slightly
higher. Utah played a schedule that was slightly stronger. Utah was a slight
favorite going into the game. Utah beat BYU on the playing field. I stand by my
position. BYU fans compare BYU's loss to Appilachian State beating Michigan
a few years back. Sorry, I'm not buying it. But keep telling your self you
had the better team if it makes you feel better. You act as if it was the upset
of the century (similar to the games you reference) You will never convience me;
we beat you fair and square on the field. I suppose that the BYU team that lost
54-10 at home to Utah was also better. Sorry, the better team usually wins; as
is the case the last 3 and 8 of the last 11 years. Man up and give credit where
it is due. @WACPaddingourscheduleThey won't.
Alibi's and excuses are the norm. Anything, and I mean anything, but give
your opponent credit for beating you. That's pretty sad and pathetic; but
RPIBYU #63, SOS #93Utah #80, SOS #74SaraginBYU #26, SOS
#63Utah #61, SOS #41Game Score:Utah 24 - BYU 21Utah was the better team, ever so slightly; as the numbers and score indicate.
The numbers would be quite similar to Alabama and Texas A&M. Tell Aggie
nation that they weren't better than Bama. I highly doubt that they would
buy it. If I was a BYU fan, I would be more concerned with the fact
that BYU had an average year, Utah had their worst season in 10 years; and BYU
still lost to Utah. They also continue to get out recruited year after year by
Utah. No wonder the fan base is so paranoid, worried and concerned with
everything related to Utah football.
Spokane UteYou're welcome to believe whatever helps you sleep
at night, but that doesn't make it reality.Reality is that BYU
has finished with better records and higher rankings in each of the last 2
years, and 5 of the last 8 years.Utah won 5 single-game battles, but
BYU won 5 season-long wars.That's reality, regardless of
whether it fits your agenda or not.Man up and give credit where it
DeepBlueAnaheim, CA said:"WACpaddledBYU played
FIVE ranked teams, beating one, and losing to three of them on the road by a
total of 10 points. One of those losses, of course, was to a BCS championship
game team, by 3 points. At least BYU beat a ranked team in 2012; along with ACC
division champion Georgia Tech and MWC tri-championship SDSU.Who did
U beat in 2012?Utah played TWO ranked teams and lost both games.BYU only lost to ONE unranked team, a narrow 3-point loss on the home
field of their arch rival in a game that wasn't decided until the final
play of the game.What was Utah's excuse for losing to FIVE
unranked teams?It's obvious why Sagarin ranked BYU #26 and Utah
#61 in 2012. Despite the relatively small difference in SOS, Utah's
accomplishments pale in comparison even to BYU's rather modest
accomplishments."BYU was 1-4 against ranked teams, you lost, get
over it. That's a failure not an accomplishment. But you are doing a good
job of spinning that way!
Spokane UteApparently, you didn't even read or want to accept
the results of your on stats:What part of BYU #63 > Utah #80 or
BYU #26 > Utah #61 did you not understand?BYU finished higher in
the team rankings! SOS is only one component that goes into determining those
rankings.Paraphrasing Solomon Levi, Utah won the single game battle;
BYU won the season long war!Live with it!
upinthenightBeat one Top 25 team IS an accomplishment.What's not an accomplishment is beating NONE!
@Solomon LeviReality is that BYU has finished with better records
and higher rankings in each of the last 2 years, and 5 of the last 8 years.Utah won 5 single-game battles, but BYU won 5 season-long wars.-----------Reality isA) Over the last decade in the
MWC Utah was #10 and BYU #27 according to CBS Sports.B) Under Bronco
BYU is 12-13 vs BCS teams (KW is 20-15)C) BYU is 2-3 vs PAC-12 teams
in 2 years the 2 wins over 3-9 teams (Utah best win 6-8 UCLA)D) BYU
is 4-5 vs BCS teams in 2 years best win 7-7 @GT (Utah best win 8-5 GT)So playing similar competition it's even, the difference is head to head:
Utah OWNS BYU.I rather Utah go 5-7 in the PAC-12 (2012) then finish
10-3 in the MWC (2010). I think TCU fans would agree 7-6 Big 12 (2012) over
11-2 MWC (2011).
anti BCSAnaheim, CAupinthenightBeat one Top 25
team IS an accomplishment.What's not an accomplishment is
beating NONE!--------------So true, see the 1984 BYU
team.Also see 2011 when Utah pummeled a ranked BYU team at LES who
only had a 3 game schedule and lost all games (Texas, Utah, and TCU).
UteologyBYU 1984 beat Air Force(8-4) which finished #24 in the Final
AP poll; although the Falcons weren't technically ranked because the 1984
only included the Top 20, the Falcons did finish in the Top 25.More
than that, unlike Utah 2008, the majority of sportswriters and coaches voting in
the AP and Coaches Poll believed that BYU was more deserving than any other team
of being National Champions.Remind us again who U beat in 2004 to
deserve finishing in the Top 5!LOL at your inconsistency!
@ My Good BYU Friends:The polls are subjective; no two are the aame.
They are all made up of various factors. Some what of a popularity contest. Your
angle is like saying that Gonzaga was better than Louisville in hoops this year.
Not true, but if that's what you believe; OK. The game score is
FACT. It's not subjective, it can't be debated or minipulated. Hence
the term "Score Board"! Make no mistake, I can live with that and I
sleep quite well. No reason to get all bent out of shape because some one has a
different and biased opinion. To each his own. It does make for a
interesting and lively debate though.Have a good evening and a good
TalkinsportsTexas A&M finished 20 that year in the final BSS,
does that count?
Spokane UteSpokane, WA@ My Good BYU Friends:Friend
AND neighbor!Points well spoken and well taken! But teams also
play better or worse from week to week, and comparing the FACTS of scores from
game to game creates conundrums. That's why we have subjective polls: to
try to make sense of facts that don't add up. Go ZAGS! Go
Utes! But first and forever, go Cougs!
Lionute@Talkinsports: "Texas A&M finished 20 that year in
the final BSS, does that count?"NOPE!The final BCS
standings are calculated at the end of the regular season, BEFORE the bowls, and
are only used to determine the two BCS championship teams and which teams are
eligible for at-large BCS consideration. The Coaches Poll officially crowns the
BCS champion, NOT the BCS standings.Tennessee destroyed Texas
A&M 38-7 in the Cotton Bowl and knocked the Aggies completely out of the
Final AP and Coaches Polls, so no, the Texas A&M didn't finish in the
Spokane UteGame scores are FACT, but so are these:BYU
beat Utah State who beat Utah who beat BYU.Of the three, which team
is best?Based on head-to-head comparisons alone, there's
absolutely no way of determining which team was best.That's why
overall records are used to determine which team is best. It may be
subjective, but so is the ranking system that ranks SOS. Win/loss records
compared against a subjective SOS yields Sagarin and other computer rankings.
Human voters do the same thing, only they're much better at factoring in
intangibles such as weather, injuries, home and away games, short weeks, travel
fatigue, rivalries, and enumerable other factors to rank teams according their
overall performance.Obviously, there isn't a perfect system,
but when you have a pool of over 120 teams, there's no possible way to make
a final determination based on head-to-head scores alone.The Final
AP and Coaches Polls rank the Top 25. For comparisons below the Top 25, the only
impartial rankings we have are Sagarin and the like. It makes no sense at all to
use Sagarin's SOS rankings, but ignore his team rankings.
Rockwell,Good information there, thanks for setting me straight.
How about Pitt? They finished 25 in the final AP poll right? The truth of the
matter is neither Utah in 04 or BYU in 84 beat anyone worthy of their final
rankings but they had great years and the voters felt they deserved what they
got, a top 5 spot and a national championship. Considering USC should not have
been allowed in the 04 game, correct me if I'm wrong but that title has
been taken from them, it would have be fun to see what would have happened if
Utah had gotten the chance. The same can be said about BYU in 84. It would
have been nice to see Washington against the Cougars. Both teams were products
of the system that was in place. Switch systems and neither team gets the
chance. Utah was not the only undefeated team in 04 so I doubt they would have
gotten the chance had the 84 system been in place. The 84 BYU team would have
the same drawback with the BCS system of the strength of schedule. Both BYU and
Utah had good teams those respective years.
1984 BYU was, at best, the 4th best football season to come out of the state of
Utah, and not even the best at BYU.In order:1) Utah -
20082) Utah - 20043) BYU - 19964) BYU - 1984
GO_COUGARS!Thanks for that interesting and obviously highly biased
list Utah troll.The truth is the best seasons, in order, are:1) #1/#1 BYU 19842) #2/#4 Utah 20083) #4/#4 Utah 20044) #4/#5 BYU 19965) #7/#7 BYU 1983The best teams, in order,
are:1) #7/#7 BYU 19832) #4/#5 BYU 19963) #1/#1 BYU
19844) #4/#5 Utah 20045) #2/#4 Utah 2008
BlueRampage - If you are loosing to the "doormat" of the PAC it does not
say much for your bowl appearance. Yes, I would rather beat BYU and go 5-7,
than go 7-5 and play San Diego St. in the Holiday Bowl. I still have more
respect for BYU football than San Diego St. While BYU has a proud
football heritage, BYU fans talking smack to the Utes is silly. Yes a national
championship beating a 6-5 Michigan team 29 years ago is nice. What have you
done lately? Utah has owned you for two decades. (7-13 with your average
margin of victory at 3.3 points is nothing to write home about). Your
historical record against Utah is not much better (53-31-4).You can
tell your grand children about that magical '84 season, or do something in
the present like break the BCS (Utes 1) have another undefeated season (Utes 2)
or dominate your bowl games (BYU 6-4, Utah 9-1). Until then, realize that you
are #2 in the state and potentially #3.Oh, and can you stop wearing
Utah State's colors?
RBBIt's common knowledge that teams change from September to
the end of the season - some improve, some become worse.The BYU team
that lost by 3 at Notre Dame and stomped Georgia Tech, would have crushed the
Utah team that BYU played in September.
@ snack WACI was hoping for a more reasonable response from someone.
It is interesting though, that you list 84 BYU as the 3rd best team. So you
admit final rankings aren't the end-all-be-all in how good a team was,
especially in the 80's when strength of schedule was meaningless for some
reason.There is a reason why the system has changed so nobody could
barely squeak by a bunch of horrible teams and be considered national champions.
It's ridiculous. Anyone outside of Provo would agree that what BYU did in
96 was more impressive. They clobbered decent teams, and beat good ones. Take
away the unfortunate loss to Washington, and they could've been playing for
a LEGIT championship.What's so amazing about the 2004 utes is
their average margin of victory was 26 points, and their closest game was two
touchdowns. That's insane. They beat then ranked #19 Pitt (not that
impressive) 35-7 (impressive) in an actual BCS bowl. MUCH more impressive than
barely beating bad teams, then barely beating a bad team from a horrible
conference in your bowl.
Go_Cougars"So you admit final rankings aren't the
end-all-be-all in how good a team was, especially in the 80's when strength
of schedule was meaningless for some reason."I don't admit
any such thing.Let me educate my jealous little friend.The rankings are for an individual season and national championships are
seldom won by teams that appear out of no where.BYU's record
from 1979 to 1983 set the table for BYU's national championship season.1979 #13/#12 11-1 WAC Champion1980 #13/#11 12-1 WAC Champion1981 #13/#11 11-2 WAC Champion1982 unranked 8-4 WAC Champion1983
#7/#7 11-1 WAC ChampionFive straight WAC championships, four Top 12
finishes and a combined 53-9(86%) in five years established BYU's
credibility.An undefeated season in 1984, combined with teams like
Oklahoma losing to Kansas, Nebraska and Washington not even winning their
conference championships and then turning down invitations to play #1-ranked
BYU, and Florida not even playing in a bowl, combined to make BYU the most
deserving team to be crowned National Champions by a consensus of ALL FIVE major
selecting organizations of the day.
@snack WACNo one needs to be educated on football by someone who
just said they believe both 83 and 84 byu were better than both the 2004 and
2008 Utes."National championships are seldom won by teams who
come out of nowhere."Yeah, they're usually won by teams who
beat several other good teams. Or, you know, at least one. It's probably
why your own quarterback from that 84 team said there is no way that would be
considered a national championship by today's standards. And also why
you'll always be trying to justify it.LOL!
As far as the 1984 season goes, you can ask a Utah fan who they believe the best
team was. Most of the time, they will reply with an answer other than BYU.
That's all fine until you ask them "How do you know?" That's
when they can't come up with an answer other than strength of schedule.
They can't give any logical reasons as to why BYU's NC team was
inferior to any other team that year. They'll give a team name, but no
logic to back them up.Here's your chance, Ute fans. Tell us why
BYU wasn't the best team in 1984.
As far as comparing teams from different seasons, that isn't necessarily a
fair thing to do, and could be highly inaccurate anyway. Was Utah's 2004
team better than their 2008 team? Possibly; it's hard to know for sure. And
comparing teams from different decades, the game can change. If (note the word
"IF", since it's difficult to prove) Utah's 2008 team was
better than BYU's 1984 team, it could merely be because talent has improved
overall in the last 20+ years. Similarly, BYU's 2011-2012 basketball team
that barely went past the playoff play-in game could be considered much better
than Utah's champion basketball teams of the '40s.Was
Utah's 2008 team better than BYU's 1984 team? Maybe.Was
Utah's 2008 team better than BYU's 1996 team? Maybe.Was
BYU's 1983 team better than Utah's 2008 team? Maybe.Was
Utah's 2004 team better than Utah's 2008 team? Maybe.We
can't tell for sure. All we DO know is that in 1984, BYU fielded the best
team in the nation, and as a result was awarded the national championship by all
5 organizations of the day.
@RivertonCougarThank you, your comment was reasonable. Until the
last sentence at least. That's partially my point- we have no idea whether
BYU fielded the best team in the nation in 1984. We don't know if they even
fielded one of the 20 best teams because they never beat anyone who was decent.
I'd like to think they were top ten, but who knows? They were barely
squeaking past bad teams. They also pounded some bad teams, but they simply
weren't tested. Boscoe said they would've finished 4th by today's
standards.I agree with you about the difficulty of comparing teams
from different eras. What you can compare, andhwhatisfuntodiscuss, reasonably,
is a season's body of work: What the team actually accomplished onthefield.
The 96 cougs were more impressive than 84. Winning the cotton bowl is BYU's
biggest on-field accomplishment.The 2004 Utes may have been better
than 2008, they just didn't accomplish as much. But when someone starts
telling me that barely beating the worst teams college football had to offer is
more impressive than beating some of the best, including Alabama in the Sugar
Bowl, then I know we aren't having a reasonable discussion.
GO_COUGARS!Why do you continue to ignore Air Force(8-4) as a very
good team. The Falcons finished #24 in the Final AP poll. Although, not
technically ranked because the 1984 poll only included the Top 20, Air Force did
finish in the Top 25, one place HIGHER than the best team Utah beat in 2004, #25
Pittsburgh(8-4)#2 Washington and #4 Nebraska both turned down
invitations to play #1 BYU in a national championship game in the Holiday Bowl.
If you want to blame someone for BYU winning a championship without being
"challenged", blame the Huskies and Huskers.BYU would have
gladly played either team and would have had a very good chance of beating
GO_COUGARS!What BYU accomplished in 1984 was obviously impressive
enough to convince the majority of nationwide panels of sportswriters and
coaches that BYU was MORE deserving than ANY OTHER team of being selected the
1984 National Champions than any other team.Unfortunately for U, the
Utes didn't do enough in 2004 or 2008 do deserve the same
acknowledgment.btw, despite your mischaracterization of Bosco's
statement, he also said that he felt that BYU deserved their #1 ranking.
@ Riddles in the DarkThank you for the reasonable comment. Yes,
BYU's most impressive win was Air Force, a team that went 8-4 by being in
the horrendous WAC that year. But the cougs won this one by 5 points. All this
proves is that they were 5 points better than the 24th best team. They also beat
Hawaii by 5, Wyoming by 3, an awful Michigan team by 7 and an absolutely
terrible Pitt by 6. Props for winning all those games, but that's a lot of
one-possession decisions against bad teams. Hardly indicative of the true best
team in the nation. The Y's strength of schedule was the 3rd worst in all
of college football.Since you brought up comparing them to the
undefeated 2004 Utes; their closest game was a 14 point win, average margin of
victory was 26 points, and they beat 19th ranked Pitt in a BCS bowl 35-7. And
all that against the 57th best strength of schedule (compared to 96th). How
could anyone say this wasn't a MUCH more impressive season?You're right though, it is a shame that neither team got the opportunity
to play a better opponent.
@ Riddles in the DarkTo your last point, I am happy that BYU was
awarded the championship in 84. Even though they avoided any good teams to get
there, they were still ranked number 1 at the end of the season, and
should've been able to play Washington in a bigger bowl. It served the
system right, and completely changed things. It sorely needed to happen, and
I'm happy it was BYU who got the job done.I just have to laugh
when people on these boards sometimes say the 84 cougs were picked "the
exact same way a champion is chosen today."No. The system is
still broken, but nothing compared to the debacle it was back then."If strength of schedule had mattered as much, there is no way BYU
would've been crowned National Champions in 1984." -Sports
IllustratedYou couldn't win a championship today without
playing at least one good team. And even then, well, see Rick Riley's
column about the 2008 Utes.
@ GO_COUGARS!Most good teams will struggle with bad teams. In 2008,
the same Utah team that ended up beating Alabama in the BCS bowl barely squeaked
by lowly New Mexico 13-10. Using your logic that BYU was only 5 points ahead of
the 24th best team in 1984, that means that in 2008 the Utes were only 3 points
above one of the worst teams in college football.The fact remains
that BYU wasn't challenged because neither Washington nor Nebraska wanted
to play BYU for the national championship game (however, there is evidence to
suggest BYU would have beaten either team anyway).You can't say
a team is not good because of SOS; does the weak SOS mean Boise State is not a
good football team? A good team is a good team because they are a good team, not
because of who they play.
@ Riverton"Using your logic that BYU was only 5 points ahead of
the 24th best team in 1984, that means that in 2008 the Utes were only 3 points
above one of the worst teams in college football."No, because
that same Utah team proved they were better by beating one of the very best
teams in college football, Alabama, in their back yard in the Sugar Bowl. HUGE
difference."BYU wasn't challenged because neither Wash nor
Nebraska wanted to play them."Agreed. Not BYU's fault, but
the system's fault. Everyone realized how ridiculous this was, and it
changed forever."You can't say a team is not good because
of SOS, does weak SOS mean Boise isn't a good team?"No.
Perfect example. Boise didn't get it's recognition by barely beating
it's weak SOS. It beat up that schedule and then went on to BEAT GOOD TEAMS
IN MAJOR BOWLS. The 84 Cougars never beat any ranked teams, or played in any
major bowls. Their accomplishment was consistently beating the worst teams
college football had to offer. See the difference?
If one of the teams really believed they were better than BYU, wouldn't
they have played them? Would you turn down an offer to play for the national
championship game, especially if you thought that it would be an easy win
because it seemed the other team was untested?The main thing is that
same polls that crowned BYU the national champions still exist today, and they
still consider strength of schedule. So, BYU was the 1984 national champions
despite their schedule, not because of their schedule.Besides,
consistency really pays off.
"If one of the teams really believed they were better than BYU,
wouldn't they have played them?"I'm betting it had
more to do with which bowl had the bigger pay-out.