What was being proposed would be remove the meeting from the caucus meeting.
Dropping off our votes but not discussing. That is what is wrong with Washington
DC. They don't listen to each other in a meeting. They watch from their
offices. We need to change that not follow it.I say go watch WALL-E
from Pixar again, the people on the spaceship.I like the idea
improving it so everyone those that were not at the meeting can find out who
represents them and who to contact.We are talking neighborhood town
halls. We aren't just meeting to elect delegates. I believe the Count My
Vote / Buy My Vote group would ruin that.The current system does not
protect the incumbent, wealthy or famous. I think that is a good thing. Keep
Fair Elections in Utah.
The 60% threshold to avoid a primary works, allowing a shot of a challenger to
eliminate an incumbent and yet requires a challenger to be a strong
candidate.Based on the state gop released stats since 2000 for state
wide or congressional races, at 60%, threshold to avoid a primary, 1/2 of
contested races went to primary. If at 2/3, 67% of contested races go to a
primary and at 70%, 70% of the races go to primary.70% would not
have helped Sen. Bennett in 2010. He was not in the top 2 coming out of
convention. In fact the more moderate Tim Bridgewater was selected by 57% of the
delegates in the last round. Mike Lee managed to get 43% and make it to a
primary. Sen. Bennett endorsed Tim Bridgewater during the primary, but with
voters ticked at TARP and ObamaCare, they went with Mike Lee.Sen.
Hatch just barely missed eliminating Dan Liljenquist by hitting just under the
60%, and Jason Chaffetz just missed eliminating Chris Cannon by hitting just
under 60%.The current system does not protect the incumbent, wealthy
or famous. I think that is a good thing.
Ask any incumbent if they would prefer a 60% threshold or a 2/3 threshold and to
a person the incumbent will tell you they want the 60%. As a
delegate, I was not surprised at the vote. It is hard for those in power to
vote to give up power. That's the problem with bureaucracies, long term
candidates and long term delegates. Yet, at this same convention delegates were
not about to give the central committee or county chairs more power. The
Republican Party pushed for inclusion, signed amendments to the constitution
giving both blacks and 18 year olds the right to vote. Yet, we have delegates
saying, "We know the issues and the candidates better than republicans state
wide. We don't trust them to make the best decisions. We have a
representative government and I have the power as the representative and I
refuse to give up any of that power." I will say that the
delegates are right about one thing. If the grassroot Republicans want things
changed, they can always elect new delegates. Change is driven by a feeling of
exclusion from the political process. I remember a Revolutionary war being
fought over that issue.
The fact that Mike Lee is now Utah's junior senator is ample proof that the
Republican nominating process in Utah is broken.
This looks a bit like what the Idaho GOP had to deal with. Groups like the
Libertarians, Constitutionalists and fence sitters want to have more power in
the party yet they won't always support its candidate. If their ideology
is so impressive why don’t they have more influence in the party? I will
tell you why. It is because their views are not as main stream as they claim and
if Republicans can’t get elected we default to the leftists just like what
happened the last two cycles. The Republican Party needs loyal membership which
is something the Libertarians and others of that stripe just don’t bring
to the dance.
"If the grassroot Republicans want things changed, they can always elect new
delegates. "Actually, it was the grassroot republican's
that were fighting against the increase in threshold. The 60% threshold to avoid
a primary works, allowing a shot of a challenger to eliminate an incumbent. You
raise that and the incumbents will just spend a lot in the primary, and we get
richer candidates, or consultants. "The fact that Mike Lee is
now Utah's junior senator"In fact the more moderate Tim
Bridgewater was selected by 57% of the delegates in the last round. Mike Lee
managed to get 43% and make it to a primary. Sen. Bennett endorsed Tim
Bridgewater during the primary, but with voters ticked at TARP and ObamaCare,
they went with Mike Lee.
Proud of the delegates for not caving to the big money power brokers. It
was evident that delegates cannot be purchased, the caucus system works!
IRONY OF THE DAY: After voting all day to EXCLUDE people from choosing their own
representatives, from health care, from guest-working in America, from a decent
education--then they pass a resolution calling themselves INCLUSIVE. George
Orwell would be pleased.
The misinformation and people against the State Board of Education's public
process on the State of Utah's Common Core Standards and Assessment was
very skillfully handled by those people against public education's ability
to make a difference for children.The sponsor of the bill is almost
as good as President Obama's administration on spreading ill throughout the
process.The State GOP Resolutions Committee passed the resolution to
the Convention with an unfavorable recommendation. They were so wishy washy in
their statement that they said it is not a statement against, or in favor of
Common Core. However, the unfavorable recommendation was based that
the resolution contains some inaccurate or misleading data that is inflammatory
in nature. This part was not mentioned in those for or against the resolution.
No one from those that supported it defended their position on the inaccurate or
misleading data.The State Board of Education put FACTUAL information
packets on Common Core but the anti-Common Core misinformation was so effective
so many delegates had their stick-on patches with a rotten apple CORE. This was
last on the agenda and about half of the delegates were gone by then.
To top this off, the sponsor of the resolution had Representative Rob Bishop get
up and support the Resolution with his power and authority he has built up and
wanting to get elected in a year, again with his influence. He was a former
chairman of the Republican GOP. School teachers spoke about the real FACTS of
Common Core through real experience and the benefits of Utah's Common Core.
However, the people left were so filled with poison and misinformation and the
inflammatory nature of those against Common Core, that they threw the teachers
out. The process of how the sponsor of this resolution works her
ability with emotions, she even had to get up and clarify that those against
Common Core had to vote yes as the way they had crafted their misinformation
made it appear that you would want to vote against the resolution.Utah GOP with the remaining delegates through everything the State Board of
Education, Republicans supported by the Governor, was thrown out with the
bathwater. The outgoing chairman chose when he didn't want to use
electronic voting to validate the votes. It was arranged to have all the
speakers, including Mia get preference.
It was so evident that people have subverted the Republican Party in Utah, after
the atmosphere and voting that took place. The terms reactionary comes to mind
when the sponsor of the anti-federal government resolutions sponsored by the
very right wing side of the Republican party that has gone so far to the right
that she is on the left, using the President's tactics of misinformation,
emotion, push and shove and her way.It is almost a crime to put this
highly offensive and inflammatory action up to the convention and not have the
Central Committee take action on it in that select few people of the Party.The Central Committee did not do their part, obligation and duty as the
GOP party in Utah. This is not Chicago but it was run like Chicago politics.
For a person who lived in Illinois for 9 years, I have seen what that did for
that state and Nation. The outgoing Chairman, Vice-Chairman and
Treasure and Secretary didn't do their part even though the gave each other
accolades and pats on the back except for the Secretary.The
Executive Director resigned. The UTAH GOP is in new hands. Good?
The survey mentioned in this article was not as conclusively in favor of
increasing the nomination threshold as the party leadership implied. The survey
summary report cherry-picked the question responses (Q9a, Q10a) that appear
favor increasing the nomination threshold. But Q12e contradicts that conclusion,
with 66% responding that the threshold should remain at 60%. Q10 is inconclusive
because the current threshold (60%) is at the _bottom_ of its range (60-69%)
making it unclear whether the respondent supported keeping it at 60 or
increasing it. So I am not surprised that the resolution failed. A better
solution for expanding voter involvement would be to establish a top-two run-off
system. That would encourage greater independent and third-party candidate
participation, broadening voter choice, while still preserving the
constitutional right of political parties to nominate their own candidates.
Change the system! Get the Eagle Forum out of the election! I as a conservative
and a Republican am tired of the right wing crazies running the State of
Utah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Changing the system will give more people a voice.
WE need the caucus system. It protects us from the good old boys, and the rich.
If all we had was a primary, money would win every time. The caucus system
gives all a chance to be heard. It is the grass roots pure and simple.
That would be fine if we had another way of getting the average middle class
citizen a way to run for office. This is all we have. To get rid of delegates is
making only the rich get on the ballet. What is our alternative. The elite in
Utah are a dangerous bunch. Solutions are welcome.
Why didn't the Deseret News publish the fact that the resolution to oppose
Common Core passed by a 65% vote? Now, both the national Republican Committee
and the Utah GOP oppose Common Core. Is this not newsworthy?It's very important to me, a Utah teacher, who sees that local control of
education and locally amendable, high standards are important. It is important
to send a message to our Governor and the USOE, that NO, we don't want
classic literature reduced; we don't want to slow the age at which children
learn basic algorithms in math; and most of all, we don't want to be
controlled by the copyrighted, un-amendable, D.C.-based, Common Core.
It doesn't matter what the threshold % required is when the group voting
are delegates coming out of caucus meetings that by their very nature are
exclusive and subject to manipulation by the overly ambitious and aggressive
ultra-right. Look where it has taken us. It is embarrassing. These people want
to maintain the system that allows them to wrest power from the people.One-person, one-vote, by secret ballot with all day voting hours and
early/absentee voting would correct the imbalance in this state. It would not
give the power to outside money. We're not that dumb, we are just too
passive and busy with other things than politics. There should just be open
primaries to anyone who can get enough signatures of support to get on a ballot.
That goes for electing delegates too, it should be like getting on the ballot to
run for the city council.Change will never come from within the s
state party power structure. The people will have to take it back with them
kicking, screaming and throwing a two year old tantrum about how they know best
and that we're being bought off by big money.
JWB from Kaysville touches on a subject that is off topic in this piece but is
important nonetheless. Proposed legislation or national policy must be weighed
against the real loss of state sovereignty. In this case, people are protected
against Federal government over reach by making sure what we teach our kids is
strictly controlled by the state and local boards. It does not matter that
well-meaning people back east believe their views are better than any one
else’s. Do not give up local control to Federal government appointees or
national groups. You will not get it back and the next bright idea may not be
quite so benign.
The delegates failed to open up the process. A mistake on their part. The
issue will not go away - will be energized by the vote. The caucus system
effectively closes the system to a large percentage of republicans in Utah. If
they don't participate, they lose their voice. Now is the time to move
towards a closed primary. There are good reasons why most states have moved to
primaries. Utah and Iowa (those darn Iowa caucuses that noone understands) are
two of a handful of states that use caucuses. If someone wants to
run for an office, there is no reason to put the barriers of caucus meetings and
conventions in his/her way. The caucus system could probably not withstand a
constitutional challenge if a candidate sued for name placement on the ballot.
Caucusers will tell you that poor people have a chance with the caucus system,
but one must have time and money to win with the caucus system. Anyone who
visits the county and state conventions can see a ton of $$$ being spent.
Here's my recommendation: Let's try a closed primary for
2016, even 2014 if possible, and see how it works.
The delegates are the immediate representatives of the grassroots. They *are*
the people and they are elected by *more* of the people. If you want to be
involved, there is nothing stopping you. If you don't want to be involved,
then quit whining. If we go to a direct primary, then we will be allowing a very
elite, powerful, well-oiled machine to choose our nominees and we will truly
have no voice in the process.
Some days it's embarrassing to be a republican.We know that
rats are the first to jump from a sinking ship. What usually goes unsaid is the
fact that it is the same rats who caused it to sink in the first place. This
arrogance represents further progress toward the sinking of the GOP.
I don't blame delegates for not getting the threshold change. There was so
many loud, irrational voices on the side of "NO!" The CMV people are
thrilled (on the inside) that it didn't happen. Now they can say they
worked through the party and had no choice but to go forward. They took the
argument that parties should be changed from the inside, not the outside away
from the insiders of the GOP who are the real elitists. The delegates are power
hungry and couldn't vote to give a slight fraction of it away. Now they
will lose it all...it might not be soon, but it will happen in the not too
Changing the percentage that is required would have only affected 5 out of 45
races in the past 12 years. Four of these involved candidates in the 2nd
congressional district where Matheson defeated each one, so what is the point of
forcing a primary, having candidates waste money on internal, very similar, if
not identical positions rather than using these funds to defeat the liberals.The
5th was Orrin Hatch and Greg Hawkins (who?) in 2000.Selection of
delegates at the Caucus meeting who will take the time to meet the candidate,
become informed on their positions, backgrounds and personalities will provide
better candidate for the general election than a primary where sound bite and
outside money can influence people on emotion rather than from an intellectual,
enlightened view. This is obvious when looking at Mike Lee race in 2010. He
had 15% fewer delegates supporting in the convention than his opponent Tim
Bridgewater. The primary was reversed at 51% to 49 %. This change I suspect was
due to Freedom works and other Tea-party affiliates spending money and making
negative comments about an individual rather than promoting the goals of the
When you come right down to it, the caucus system disenfranchises more voters
than it includes,especially when it is held on the Tuesday election day. Most of
us are at work then and can't get to the meeting unless it is held in the
evening. Here in Idaho the Republicans went to a caucus for the Presidential
race and ended the meeting at 7:00 PM. A lot of us didn't even get home
before then and were unable to participate. That, together with a lot of other
factors, caused me to change my party affiliation to Libertarian.
"'We just think we can do better,' the spokesman, Rich McKeown,
said." So let me think, a few people believe their ideas on how to improve
the process private organizations use to select their representatives. And now
they are willing to spend a lot of money ($1M if previous articles are to be
believed) in a campaign to have the state impose their beliefs on these private
organizations. Does this mean if I and a few of my friends don't like the
process our church uses to select their leaders I should organize and get the
state to dictate to my church how they select their leaders? What if the ideas
don't work or have unintended consequences, who easy will it be to adjust
the laws. Right now different parties can have their own rules and thus multiple
experiments can be run. The Democrats changed their threshold to 60% from 70% in
the 90's and the Republicans followed suit when it looked to be a good
idea. Why not spend money on research and education to help parties justify
changes rather than threaten and bully?
It is amazing how there are rules and procedures and a charter and constitution
and the chairman can manage to skirt around those with his decrees for the past
4 years while the Tea-Partiers were able to make their headway along with the
Eagle Forum that has locked it's horns and body into the Republican body at
all levels from the Governor, Legislature, Frugal McDougal, and the potentate of
the Attorney General that didn't make a show at the Convention. The
Lieutenant Governor appeared to be on a short leash at the convention, also.
FreedomWorks and their influence was evidenced from the fliers on
slicked expensive pamphlets, posters with their outside influence. Some of the
information didn't have who was putting out the information or who was the
sponsor. It was as if the Federal government has taken over the party and the
information isn't flowing to the party members but is close hold in the
I'm glad the delegates voted against any change in the system. Now we can
get an initiative going to get rid of the caucus system and allow a direct vote
that truly represents every Utah voter. The caucus is exclusive. Too many
Utahans cannot participate during that small window of time. Candidates only
have to answer to a few delegates instead of to all voters.Where do
I sign? Can't happen soon enough.
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil;This is
especially true in politics as obscene amounts of money are thrown away with
ever-increasing dirtiness. This causes the mistrust of politicians and the
media to grow and apathy of American voters to increase. More primaries only
increases this unwanted consequence.I have been an active voter in
elections in three different states. We discoved the caucus system and were
amazed at how much more empowered we felt to make wise choices as we voted. We
could meet and communicate directly with them, and watch how they made decisions
and handled problems. We could size up their character first hand and had
direct access to their records of service. We were not beholden to corrupt and
biased media to give me canned speeches or special interest groups to give us
lists of ways we should think.Every registered voter has that same
opportunity if they choose to take advantage of it. As a direct result of the
Utah caucus system and becoming well-informed voters, we can choose good
leadership and character rather than the money crisis and fraud plaguing most
elections in other states.
I have participated in the caucus system for many years, and for many years I
have been frustrated with it. It does not truly represent the majority of
Republicans. The GOP seems to want to consolidate power around the most
conservative base of the party which doesn't represent most Utahns. That
fact that so many Republicans voted for Matheson should send a message that the
conservative wing of the party doesn't represent the majority of
Republicans in Utah. We want someone that holds to conservative
ideals but is still willing to compromise and work with others in DC.
JWB to set the record straight the AG, John Swallow, was at the convention.
I am a State Delegate. I have heard the reasons for removing the cuacus sytem or
making changes to the thresholds, and those reasons were couched in the rhetoric
for more inclusion of the average GOP voter. In other words, I heard the
promises that more GOP voters would participate if teh above changes weere made.
Yet, I do not believe that will happen. The reality in my view is that we are
facing an increasingly disengaged electorate, and in that vacuum there will step
forward those who will see an opportunity to further their best interests. The
priniples behind the caucus sytem are sound, and those who want to engage are
welcome. Those who do not want to engage will continue to look for a scapegoat
to justify their non participation. In my view, try the primary system for 2-3
election cycles, and I am confident that the change in political engagement by
the GOP electorate will be statistically insignificant. In fact, I will predict
that new watch cry and wringing of hands will be that we the Utah GOP are under
siege from the huge money/special interest groups from outside the state.
It baffles me that there is so much fear in the common core...I am not a teacher
but have children in the public schools and have talked to those who oppose the
common core. I don't understand their fear... I think the common core
makes sense and the Republican Party looks silly with their opposition to it.
I will not vote for a moderate anymore, I want my candidates to be conservative,
or I do'n't vote, or might vote Libertarian..