Just another reason the future(and present) of football in Utah, is
Good to see the U in a good place after the wasteland that was the 70's
through mid 90's...
UTAH--"Since 2003, the Utes have had 27 players get their names
called at Radio City Music Hall in New York City. "Our annual
pre-season NC--"For those wondering, long-time archrival BYU has
had 14 players drafted since 2003."
"The last ten years have been remarkable for Utah's football
program."Not as remarkable as ours. Don't they know about
our win/loss records vs. teams from Idaho?
We'll be smelling roses in the next couple years.Mark it down
"For those wondering, long-time archrival BYU has...." My guess... very
few wonder! BYU fans are aware of their recent dearth (1 in 3 years). Some U
fans, if it means anything to them, are also aware. To an increasing number of
U fans how they Y is doing means nothing. Some Utah State fans probably are
gloating over their two in each of the past two years success. For the
remaining "fans" - "who cares".
I love how Chris B. will ruin a legitimate leg up on BYU (significantly more
players drafted into the NFL at the U) by saying something like "we'll
be smelling roses." Let me also note that in addition to this optimistic
prognosticating, another Ute "fan" is the one talking about BYU
preseason glory. BYU fans rarely talk about any "Quest," we've
learned our lesson. Congrats to the Utes on creating a NFL
pipeline. While it is surprising to me you can't deny that the Utes
program has come a very long way in the last decade. Congrats to Utes but Go
Two Questions: If BYU is winning the recruiting wars each year as Bronko and
their fan base claims, then why does Utah produce more NFL draftees? Could it be
that Utah coaches do a better job of developing its athletes?
Silent Lurker:Yes, Utah coaches do a better job of developing our
athletes, but that's not the only reason why we annually produce more NFL
talent than our Indy-WACey little brother. That whole "BYU is winning the
recruiting wars each year" is just something that cougar fans [frantically
and emotionally] "say". They don't really "believe" it.
They KNOW they're getting poned in the recruiting wars. It's all over
the internet via the more well-known recruiting sites (i.e. Rivals, Scout, ESPN,
24/7). They can "deny" the validity of those ranking organizations, but
we all know that they know full well those "denials" are just desperate
deflections.Keep in mind how difficult it is to coach up unheralded
2-star athletes all the way to Draft Day. And while I'm aware that
Whittingham has done that with some of HIS 2-star athletes, that just brings us
back to Utah's coaches doing a better job at developing our players.
RE: Frantic and EmotionalInstead of writing what BYU fans know and
believe (even though we all know you are indeed an expert in knowing the
thoughts and feelings of people you dislike), why not just post the facts. Football recruiting (Rivals, Scout, AVERAGE)Utah 2013
(44, 54, 49)2012 (28, 32, 30)2011 (37, 40, 38.5)2010 (32, 50,
41)2009 (44, 55, 49.5)2008 (60, 65, 62.5)2007 (71, 66,
68.5)2006 (55, 60, 57.5)2005 (59, 71, 65)2004 (76, 68, 72)2003 (90, 95, 92.5)2002 (77, 84, 80.5)BYU2013 (70, 63,
66.5)2012 (61, 60, 60.5)2011 (62, 66, 64)2010 (40, 22, 31)2009 (50, 40, 45)2008 (83, 57, 70)2007 (56, 42, 49)2006 (67,
46, 56.5)2005 (63, 53, 58)2004 (65, 55, 60)2003 (108, 59,
83.5)2002 (36, 46, 41)I didn't include ESPN or 247
because I'm not an insider or member, but I'd love to see the numbers
if anyone has them. Results: Utah clearly has the recruiting edge
for the last three years, BYU clearly dominant before then.
Wiscougar-So what you are saying is that Utah coaches do a much
better job of developing talent than BYU coaches? Or are BYU coaches just
horrible at taking their "top" talent, and making it draftable? Maybe a
little of both?
Re: DonMUSSwUtahI didn't say any of those things. Let me
paraphrase what I did say in my two posts on this thread...1.
Congrats to Utah for establishing a NFL pipeline. 2. Utah has
out-recruited BYU in the last three years, and BYU out-recruited Utah
head-to-head before then (at least according to two recruiting websites). Clearly I have said nothing about the actual on-field success or
failures of either team. If you'd like me to comment on that feel free to
ask, but I won't offer my opinions on a Utah discussion board unless I am
asked because I am most definitely a BYU fan Not an anti-Utah troll) and have no
need to stir the pot.
Wiscougar fan - your first post was awesome, you should have left well alone.
In those 11 years you are comparing recruiting, Utah is 8-3 against the y. Must
be the coaching staffs! Go Utes!!
DontMUSSwUtah...Actually, BYU coaches have been developing their
players enough that they are able to both play in and win bowl games. And
how well has Utah developed their players recently? Oh yea, they let them
develop by experiencing what it feels like to have a losing record and sitting
home eating popcorn while watching other teams play in bowl games. Quite the
program. You'd better go back to your old "we're in a
big conference and you're not" chant. But remember, it honestly
doesn't take much of a football program to finish in any conference's
Tators:"BYU coaches have been developing their players enough
that they are able to both play in and win bowl games...And how well has Utah
developed their players recently?"Since 2003, the Utes played in
9 bowl games, and went 8-1 [.889] -- which included 2 BCS bowl *wins* -- while
your Indy-WACey program played in 8 bowl games, and went 6-2 [.750] without even
a whiff of a BCS bowl *invitation*. So to answer your question...even BETTER
than the cougars' coaches.Haha! I can't believe you went
So....Utah would be in the "3rd Tier of the Pac-12." Got it...Thanks!
Naval Vet:Since you have to back a decade to try to make your point,
and since more recently the U can't even get into any kind of bowl game
(let alone a BCS bowl again), you are in effect admitting that the U's
program is in a downward slide.And yes, I'm going there!
Tators:A decade IS "recent". Did you even read the article?
It stated plainly, "The last 10 years have been remarkable for the
University of Utah football program....Since 2003, the Utes have had 27 players
get their names called at Radio City Music Hall in New York City." YOU guys
are the ones who feel compelled to constantly bring up the 1980s, so don't
go "there" either with me bringing up the last 10-yrs, and ESPECIALLY
not on article that's written focused on the last 10-yrs.Furthermore, we've only missed ONE postseason since 2003, and JUST
BARELY! We were one OT loss away from bowling last year. That's hardly a
"trend". Everybody knows that Utah's SOS took a dramaticly more
challenging leap by moving up to the Pac-12. Our "team" didn't
slide downward. Our SOS slid upward. Fail on your part.
To Naval Vet, Vegas Ute, Silent Lurker, and AZUTE1:You keep
mentioning that Utah does a better job of developing their athletes, gets more
4-star high school players, how they place more in the NFL, etc.. Well,
instead of just looking at just a few years, let's look at some overall and
longer-term statistical successes of the those programs and let the facts speak
for themselves.BYU has had a total of 116 players drafted into the
NFL. Utah has had 83.BYU has qualified for and played in 31 bowl games.
Utah has played in 17.BYU has beat Utah 26 times over the past 40 years,
while Utah beat BYU 14 times.
So Tators - you're now going back 4 decades??
@ TatorsWhy is 40 years ago relevant? If you go back that far you
might as well include the whole series.Recently, Utah has had a
solid upper hand on BYU. The 1980's are over; sorry.
"Decade-long success has made Utah football a pro pipeline"And BYU football......Not so much!
Two ways into the NFL in this state: Get recruited by the U of U, or be a
walk-on at BYU and beat out the "talent" that their coaching staff
Naval Vet--You're selling us short, my friend....We missed a
bowl game last season for the first time since 2002, not 2003.It's always fascinating to watch the byu-fanbase scramble to point their
collective-finger at us about something, anything at all, since they clearly
can't do so w/our head-to-head meetings....Now it's the fact we missed
our 1st bowl game since 2002, as if it were a trend or something, while not only
beating byu, yet again, head-to-head, but also playing against a tougher SOS.Furthermore, during this current BCS Era, both UTAH/byu have played in
the identical amount of bowl games, yet while we've gone 10-1 and achieved
BCS Glory, twice, byu has struggled mightily just to remain above .500 at 6-5,
while never, ever going undefeated/BCS Bowling, ever.
Wiscougarfan - "Utah has out-recruited BYU in the last three years, and BYU
out-recruited Utah head-to-head before then"Another way to read those
numbers is "Utah has a measurable bump in recruiting thanks to PAC-12
membership; independence has not helped BYU recruiting (in fact, it has
hurt)."Utah's boost was expected. BYU's drop is
surprising, but maybe I fell for all the talk of how "national exposure"
would bring great players. Thanks for posting those numbers!
I seriously had to take double-look at byu's last recruiting-class, as
I'd honestly never previously seen so many 2-Stars in one, single haul.
byu's future certainly looks bright, eh?What's incredible,
is bm recruited neither of the only 2 draft picks he's seen in the last 4
years....He certainly can't recruit/develop talent like many others
certainly do on a regular-basis....Obviously, there's a reason he only goes
undefeated/BCS Bowling in the pre-season, but never when the games actually get
RE: AZUTE1Crappy recruiting classes don't necessarily spell out
doom and gloom. You should know this better than anyone. Utah's two best
seasons of all time (2004, 2008) had recruiting classes of 62.5 and 72 and were
preceded by classes ranked 68.5 (2007) and 92.5 (2003). And NFL draft picks
tell us little about how good a team is as well (Rutgers owned Utah this year).
You should probably stick to on-the-field performance when talking smack (where
Utah does currently have a significant advantage over the Cougs). Bronco and
most BYU fans never talk about "going undefeated/BCS bowling in the
preseason", only trolls do that.
@ wcfHow many players in the '03 & '04 rc's do
you think actually started for our '04 team? How about the '07 &
'08 rc's starting for our '08 team? Think about it for a
moment.And what in the world does Rutgers have to do w/anything
RE: AZUTE1I was simply making a point. The recruiting classes that
resulted in Utah's two biggest wins in program history were not especially
impressive. Indeed, they were ranked lower than BYU's 2-star studded class
of this year. So the point is that recruitment rankings don't guarantee
anything. Rutgers having seven players draft this year also illustrates a
point. Simply having multiple players move on to the NFL does not guarantee any
kind of on-the-field performance for collegiate programs. While I think it is
great that Utah is getting players to the next level (and a little jealous),
that is not the reason they have beat BYU so much recently. The reasons they
have won are because they have played better and have been better coached for
that particular rivalry game, a trend I hope ends this year. Let me know
if I need to clarify anything else for you.
@ wcfPlease respond directly to my questions regarding the
recruiting-classes you specifically referenced and how many from them you
believe actually started for UTAH in '04 & '08? Thanks.On your point in why UTAH has utterly dominated byu head-to-head, you pointed
out the fact UTAH played better than byu....Don't you think this might
have something to do with having better players? Just possibly related to this
fact?Again, Rutgers has zero to do with this thread and with this
discussion.I'll be more than happy to further clarify anything
else for you.
AZUTE1:Your question to Wiscougarfan would require him to do
"research". But he's an Indy-WACer. Indy-WACers can't DO
research. All they can do is just "believe" whatever whoever is doing
their thinking for them. Need proof? Just look at his name. It says
"-cougar-" right there in the middle of it.Case closed.
If my last post gets through let me apologize to all real sports fans who read
these posts. As a college professor with a PhD from a "research"
institution I pride myself on doing due diligence before I post. Trolls
don't usually get to me but they struck a nerve today and I reacted. Let me reiterate the points I have made... Recruiting classes don't have
a direct correlation with winning big games. For evidence see Utah's
recruiting classes for the years preceding 2004 and 2008, listed earlier in this
forum. They were ranked lower than BYU's class of 2013. So talk all the
smack that you want, but recruiting class smack doesn't carry a lot of
weight if you rely on "research." Also, sending players to the NFL
does not have a direct correlation with winning big games (see Rutgers, also
Tenn and Colorado produced more NFL talent from 1992-2011 than Texas). So,
again, simply sending players to the NFL will not guarantee any sort of
on-the-field success.Granted, common sense dictates that sending players
to the NFL will help with recruiting and better recruiting will help with
winning ball games.
Them Ute studs in the NFL got there on a steady diet of cupcakes, turnovers, and
@azute & Nav VetGive the "dramatic increase in SOS" a rest.
The excuses for Utah's failures over the last couple years are getting
tiresome. Here's some "research" for you: Utah's opponents avg
BCS final ranking last year 47.63, BYUs 55.16 (and that's with Idaho, NMSU,
and Hawaii watering it down). BYU played FIVE top 25 finishers last year while
Utah played TWO. BYU actually beat one of their top 25 while Utah didn't.
BYUs schedule wouldn't be great the first couple years, we all expected
that. But without Utah playing the two best programs in their league, what we
might not have expected is that Utah's schedule was not much tougher than
BYUs. The difference is BYU demolished their 100 plus ranked opponents while U
had to have a game saving kick off return to win , and then actually lost to
that weak opponent the year before. Stop with the SOS argument. Or is that the
same weak bologna were going to hear after every .500 season, with no trophies
or awards of any real national merit? BYU top 25 finishes 18, Utah 7, national
awards 15, Utah 0. Take your draft picks, I prefer a winning tradition.
Since Alex Smith, Utah hasn't done to well at producing quarterbacks or
offensive players. The only notable exception that stands out to me is Bergstrom
last year. This is reflected in the current roster. If I have one criticism for
coach Whit, it is that he does not excel on the offensive side of the ball and
knowing that he did not put the people in place to effectively manage the
offense. Hopefully the addition of Erikson revitalizes the offense this year and
Brian Johnson will take the opportunity to learn from one of the best offensive
minds of the last twenty years.
Guam_Bomb, since Alex Smith there's been Freddie Brown, who unfortunately
didn't stick, David Reed, who is a great special teams player, and Quinton
Ganther had a good career as a pretty productive backup running back, but the
offensive line has still been consistently producing some very good players. You
mentioned Bergstrom, who should be earning a starting spot soon, but also Zane
Beadles has been an elite NFL guard now, Caleb Schlauderaff will compete for a
starting spot this year, and while Zane Taylor wasn't drafted, he's
been a good practice squad guy for the last couple years.