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Ask Angela: What if he can't take me to the temple?

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  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    April 27, 2013 7:57 a.m.

    I have seen absolutely wonderful men be led to the church by their wives (including my first bishop). That said, I have seen so many more situations where there was hope but that hope never came to fruition.

    Perhaps we take the conversion process too lightly. It requires much of the person changing. If he decides the church is not for him, then there is issue of whether and how the children will be brought up in the church. This question can be present even if he eventually does convert if many years have gone by and the children are now mostly grown.

    For the wife, remaining active can be a challenge. Beyond the issue of children, many express a desire to have the priesthood in their home to be able to administer blessings as well as to perform ordinances for the children. Or to be able to attend the temple together (and in times of difficulty, many members wish to take their concerns to the temple for additional inspiration).

    Also, as our testimonies deepen or as trials come, there is a comfort and bond in sharing the gospel.

    Consider our leaders' counsel carefully and heed the Holy Ghost.

  • FT1/SS Virginia Beach, VA
    April 27, 2013 8:03 a.m.

    Something that sticks in my mind, is that President Hinckley stated in one of his books "that member, non-member marriages are likely not to result in a conversion for the non-member" (not exact words). However, after a 14 year marriage I was able to baptize my wife earlier this month. After myself returning to church last year. In my ward there are two other couples where the non-member has been baptized the past few months. The other two couples had long marriages as well. I believe if you set the example and remain active in church, your spouse will take notice and will follow. My wife spent six months building her testimony prior to baptism. Temple sealing next year for us.

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    April 27, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    Statistic is 1:7 who marry outside the church will even see their spouse choose to join the church let alone join in temple sealing. From my observations of over 40 years, I'd have to say that seems pretty on-the-spot for accuracy (I have lived away from UT for 30 of those years).

    Yes, sometimes it works out and sometimes temple marriages fail as well. The odds are against you. Part of the problem with this is some get caught in the idea that the one they're in a relationship is the "one and only" instead of "one of many potentially successful marriage partners and love"... realize there are others out there ready to make the commitment and it becomes a lot easier to focus on the eternal aspects over the currently comfortable.

  • utah cornhusker NORFOLK, NE
    April 27, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    My husband joined the church 5 months before we were married civilly in slc as that is where I had lived for several years. I thought a lot and prayed a lot. I had a friend who I didn't tell for a few months because I didn't know how she'd react. After our civil marriage one year to the date later we were sealed in Denver as it was the closest temple to us as I moved to Nebraska following our marriage. I wouldn't advise it for everyone but I had a very deep feeling that he would join but even before he was baptized on visit to salt lake I thought once in a while was this right and in the end it did work out. That was 19 years ago. One mention is that if words and actions don't match get the heck out when you are dating. Ive known couples who drank and smoked and they were inactive 30 years and they were sealed about 10 or so years ago and are very active and the wife said this was the thing she wanted in this life. They are wonderful people.

  • 3GrandKeys Walnut Creek, CA
    April 27, 2013 6:30 p.m.

    Not everyone has the luxury of being an attractive and likable person to lots of equally attractive and likable people. Nobody should discard a soulmate. And why spend a lifetime AND an eternity with someone that you know makes you less happy than someone else does? You'll spend your whole life knowing you could have chosen to have a better time.
    "...he that is happy, shall be happy still; and he that is unhappy shall be unhappy still." (Mormon 9:14)
    Choose the person that makes you happy, let the consequence follow...happiness.

  • FDRfan Sugar City, ID
    April 28, 2013 8:29 a.m.

    When the blind lead the blind everyone falls in the ditch. The Church leaders are inspired to see the way. Follow the advice of the Prophets and Apostles. Eternity is a long time.

  • donn layton, UT
    April 28, 2013 12:33 p.m.

    @Twin Lights, Perhaps we take the conversion process too lightly. It requires much of the person changing. If he decides the church is not for him. I agree,

    The True Temple for Christians is Jesus. “destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up” (John 2:19). After Christ’s resurrection the meaning of these words became plain,when Jesus spoke of the destruction of the temple, he was speaking of his own body (John 2:22).

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    April 28, 2013 12:56 p.m.

    Donn,

    My advice would change little if I were taking to any of my non-LDS Christian friends.

    As to the quote from John. Yes, we understand it to mean his body as well so I am not sure of your point.

  • donn layton, UT
    April 28, 2013 1:39 p.m.

    RE,Twin Lights I am not sure of your point.
    The N.T. teaches that Christ is the New Temple . Christ’s body is the true temple–as Paul puts it, “For we are the temple of the living God” (2 Corinthians 6:16)–what use remains for an a future literal temple? That to which the temple had pointed, is now a reality through the work of the Holy Spirit.
    Wine was used by Noah, Gen 9:20,21 . Melchizedek, Gen 14:18. Isaac Gen 27:25. Jesus 2:1-11, He turns water into wine not wine into water And Mt 11:19.. Wine was used by Noah, Gen 9:20,21 . Melchizedek, Gen 14:18. Isaac Gen 27:25. Jesus 2:1-11, He turns water into wine not wine into water And Mt 11:19.. He (Jesus)could not take me to the Mormon temple today?’

  • moniker lewinsky Taylorsville, UT
    April 28, 2013 10:18 p.m.

    Boy, I spent years biting my nails and weeping to "heavenly father" over this issue. Finally I got over it. By some miracle I got over it. And at first I approached it with a "lead him to the temple" attitude. What a toxic recipe for a marriage! Got over that too. Got over the disparagement "time only" girls face.
    Half your friends and family will assume you're knocked up. They don't matter. Go with your gut. But don't spend the next 50 years trying to convert him. Don't do that.

  • jeanie orem, UT
    April 29, 2013 7:35 a.m.

    If temple marriage is important to you, then marry someone who can take you there. If the person you fall in love with cannot take you, but you want them anyway, marry and love them "as is". Be content. You can still hope and pray for your original dream, but do not pressure your spouse because of the dreams YOU had, and do not blame God if your spouse never takes you to the temple.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    April 29, 2013 9:03 a.m.

    I would never let religion be the defining factor in finding a person to marry. If two people are in love, their beliefs don't have to be the same. I have a hard time understanding the logic behind people who look at religion FIRST then decide to fall in love. If you are in love then it will all work out. Religion should be secondary.

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    April 29, 2013 10:21 a.m.

    If what matters more than anything in your life that you marry a "temple worthy" spouse, then be sure that is clearly stated up front. However, I find it sad that people put a temple above a person.

    What if you or your spouse-to-be find out later that the temple isn't really inspired of God? Do you then have an excuse to divorce your spouse? How sad if that is your view on marriage, commitment and true love. What if your spouse and you marry or later get sealed in the temple, but one of you decides the temple isn't that cool anymore, nor isn't worthy of your time and money? What if you have children? Does that mean it is the right thing to divorce because of your or your spouse's changed views on the temple?

    A relationship built on "temple-worthiness" is on very shaky footing. If that is what your potential spouse sees as most important, then I would run the other way.

  • fish8 Vernal, UT
    April 29, 2013 10:45 a.m.

    It boils down to short or long term perspective. Are you willing to give up what you want now for something greater in the long run. If you want eternal marriage you are taking a huge risk not starting out the right way. Hoping someone will change is very risky. I know it sound kind of harsh, but you marry who you date - so if your goal is eternal marriage only date someone who can help you start off on the correct path. There isn't a one and only and even though it hurts to walk away from someone you love - it's easer than not obtaining your long term goal. That said, it is hard for many to keep the long term view as the main priority when emotions come into play.

  • TN Vet Columbia, TN
    April 29, 2013 11:53 a.m.

    When I went to Snow College I could not even get a date because I was not a returned missionary. I went to church every Sunday but that did not seem to matter. I eventually found a good woman and was sealed in the Atlanta Temple.

  • moniker lewinsky Taylorsville, UT
    April 29, 2013 12:18 p.m.

    It's true that you can't bank.on converting a spouse. And sadly, so many marriages are torn apart when a spouse does a little reading and converts out of the church. These days there are no guarantees even when you marry somebody who is temple worthy. Members dropping like flies.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    April 29, 2013 1:57 p.m.

    I told my daughters that I'd rather they marry someone who was genuine on the inside - loved them, and cherished them, who they got along well with, and lived happily ever after OUT of the Temple,
    than
    Someone who went through all the motions of appearing to be a good Latter-Day Saint but who was a genuine fake on the outside {Returned Missionary, BYU student, but a liar, cheater, business swindleer, pill-popper, or abuser] IN the temple anyday.

    So far - they have all heeded my good earthly Fatherly advise.

    As far as I'm concerned -
    Saying a child can't marry someone who isn't the same faith,
    is like saying they can't marry someone who isn't the same color.

    I judge them on their true character.
    I suppose our Heavenly Father thinks and feels the same way I do.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    April 29, 2013 2:04 p.m.

    What's the rush? If a person is in the middle of a life-changing event, such as learning about a new religion, why add marriage to that mix at that time? What's wrong with waiting for that person whom you claim to love with all your heart? What's wrong with waiting while that person becomes mature in his/her new religion to know for himself/herself that he or she wants to change?

    If someone has been a member of the LDS Church for years and has just begun to understand the importance of eternal marriage, that person needs time to work out priorities. If someone is just learning of the doctrine of eternal marriage, that person needs time to become familiar with that concept and all that it implies.

    Patience is required after marriage, why not practice patience before marriage?

  • L White Springville, UT
    April 29, 2013 2:31 p.m.

    If you don't mind, how about letting an older woman add a few thoughts? Marriage is the single most important part of life. You get to choose ONCE the person that you'll vow to live with until you die, or for forever.

    When I was young my grandma seemed so out of touch with life. I couldn't imagine that passion's flame ever burned brightly in her. I loved to be around her but it wasn't until I had several decades of marriage behind me that I began to understand how wise she was when she told me that if the man I planned to marry didn't love me enough to do whatever was necessary to take me to the temple, that he wasn't marriage material. She knew about life. She knew that no one was promised a long and carefree life. She knew that if we were not willing to sacrifice a moment's pleasure for an eternity of joy that we weren't ready for marriage.

    I listened to her and I married the right man in the right place. I thank God everyday for temple marriage. It's worth it!

  • BYU Track Star Los Angeles, CA
    April 29, 2013 4:28 p.m.

    Yesterday, I sat down with my LDS Bishop to discuss the issue of tithing as being the only impediment from me going back to the temple. The meeting take away is that if I can be a tithe payer for 6 months we'll have the rest of the interview. Tithing is a sensitive subject for me. I stopped tithing 29 years ago because I was not going to have my children get a second rate education and choose private schools instead. I have no regrets from that choice and my children turned out great. Now finding myself single again, I find myself in a relationship with not only a fine active LDS woman from Salt Lake but a Temple worker at that. I am her man in her words. While weve discussed civil marriage she really wants to be sealed to me in the temple. I am feeling the pressure from her. Part of me wants to run hide in my man cave when she brings up tithing while another side of me says okay lets do this. Basically it is the fear of losing the remaining 50% of what my former and her attorneys left behind.

  • Yorkshire City, Ut
    April 29, 2013 6:40 p.m.

    article--"Some women felt that if the temple is your goal, then you would never be happy with a man who couldn’t take you there."

    As for being "happy", I think I would never be happy being so in love with/and married to a spouse that I knew would only be mine until one of us died...

  • chilemamita Vancouver, WA
    April 30, 2013 3:20 a.m.

    Look, my parents and all my friends' parents had "temple marriages" and they didn't come come close to celestial, regardless of church activity. Painful, traumatic and scarring would best describe them. I learned early that a temple marriage doesn't equal a celestial marriage. With that said, I gained a testimony of the gospel, not because of my parents but in spite of them. I served a mission and wanted better for my life and my own children. I took a prayerful approach and it lead me to a handsome, kind and loving man who was not a member of this church. I knew what the counsel was but counsel does not take the place of heart-felt prayer and answers from God Himself. I was honest and willing to do whatever the Spirit prompted me to do. And that is the key. The temple is part, a vital part, of our journey and it did come. We have been HAPPILY married for 20 years - note HAPPILY - and have 4 children. Keep your eyes on the big picture, be honest, and live by the Spirit. God intends for our happiness and He intends it to be eternal!

  • Matthew75 CULPEPER, VA
    April 30, 2013 11:44 a.m.

    If you are going into any relationship, and particularly a marriage, with the agenda of changing the other person you are making a very large mistake. If the person posing the question cannot accept him as a mate, exactly as he is now, then she should not marry him. Separate is the question of whether it is most important to her to have a good husband or to have a husband who is a good member of the church.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    April 30, 2013 3:15 p.m.

    BYU Track Star

    I am with you on the tithing part. I have always had a very hard time paying tithing. %10 of your income is a huge amount, and I find it offensive that it is part of the temple requirements. We are talking about money in exchange for entry in the temple. Sure there are other things you have to do, or have to avoid doing. But preventing people from going to the temple until the pay their tithing.. I don't know it seems so much like having to catch up on your cable payments to get cable back. It doesn't make sense to me, and I think it should be a voluntary thing. If you can afford it, great. If not, that is fine. Some people are under such bad financial stress already, lets not add to that with a %10 fee each month to be temple worthy. It is like a church tax. government gets %25, church gets %10, and you get %65???? How is this right?

  • jeanie orem, UT
    May 1, 2013 7:41 a.m.

    Paying a full tithe is acknowledging that all you have comes from God, that we are dependent on him of our very breath. For a believer the only thing we "own" is our free agency. There is everything right about freely giving *back* what was given to us.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    May 1, 2013 8:44 a.m.

    Jeanie - Many would argue that what we have depends on what we do and how hard we work. God doesn't do the work for us. I work 50-60 hours a week, why would I give %10 of that to a church? If I was rich I could see giving %10. I'm not rich.

  • jeanie orem, UT
    May 2, 2013 7:52 a.m.

    Bramabull - I understand that reasoning. My husband and I work hard too and we are not rich either. In fact, my husband gave up a very good paying job for a more family friendly one at half of what he made before. With kids in college and some still at home money is not abundant.

    However, we have found that paying tithing has never inhibited our ability to meet our needs. We don't look at it as we are paying a church. We believe it is God who has asked for our tithing, not President Monson, or ever our stake president. It is our way of thanking God for the blessings we have, our good health, our wonderful children, our comfortable home, etc. and being obedient.

    As members of the church of Jesus Christ we are asked to sacrifice everything if necessary. We make promises in that regard. I am glad that is not required right now. I might have a hard time giving up my home to trek across the country to join the saints like my ancestors did. Paying tithing really is not too much to ask, especially when considering all the blessings we do have.

  • A peculiar person Monterey, CA
    June 11, 2013 9:37 p.m.

    Something I think is incredibly important to consider about ANY aspect of a person you are considering marrying is this: If this person never changes, will you always be happy? If this person stays exactly as they are right this minute, can you live with that for the rest of your life? If you can't in good conscience answer "Yes" to that question, it may be time to reconsider. You should never enter a commitment with someone with the hope that they will change. They may never change, and you accepted them as they were. That said, allow the Spirit to guide you. There are exceptions to some rules, and I believe the Lord can and does lead us down certain paths that seem unexpected, for very deliberate purpose.

    I married a non-member. I got lucky. He joined the Church, helped the Spirit bring me back into activity, and we've been sealed to each other and our children. We strive to live a life in harmony with the Gospel. Though this is not common, I believe it was inspired of the Lord.