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Sen. Lee says effort to stop debate on gun control bill not a failure

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  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    April 11, 2013 7:38 p.m.

    68 - 13

    Sen. Lee is correct about one thing...

    Passing this is NOT a faliure at all,
    but the beginning of a huge success.

    Keep going!
    Close the loops of weapon sales to criminals and mentally insane,
    and Universal BackGorund Checks!

    [Sorry Senator, you are a very small fringe minorty]

  • WHAT NOW? Saint George, UT
    April 11, 2013 8:01 p.m.

    "...Sen. Lee says effort to stop debate on gun control bill not a failure...".

    You either make it happen or you make excuses.

    Lee has chosen to make excuses.

  • patriot22 tremonton, UT
    April 11, 2013 8:46 p.m.

    The guns used in the Newtown murders were legally owned weapons. The person using them was mentally ill. Instead of gun control which has never worked anywhere in the country it has been implemented, why not get the mentally ill off the streets and away from guns? His
    mother who paid the ultimate price, knew he had a problem yet was not a responsible gun owner. Maybe some education about gun safety in the home would have prevented him from ever killing all these children. Very sad outcome which could have been prevented. Background checks would have done nothing to prevent it though because they weren't his guns.

  • tabuno Clearfield, UT
    April 11, 2013 9:30 p.m.

    The Utah Legislature has gerrymandered U.S. House districts which is at the center of the gun control debate. By eliminating a urban-suburban district for diversified legislative districts, the voice of those whose primary cultural environment isn't a rural gun culture, the State Legislature has deprived those of us with much different social living environments a voice in Congress.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    April 11, 2013 10:26 p.m.

    Not a failure? I bet if the 68-31 vote for cloture had gone the other way, Lee would be crowing "success" pretty loudly.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    April 12, 2013 4:45 a.m.

    "why not get the mentally ill off the streets and away from guns? "

    Of course a great concept. But how do you do it?

    "His mother who paid the ultimate price, knew he had a problem yet was not a responsible gun owner. "

    In the Newtown shooting, this was the single biggest breakdown. His mother KNEW her kid had mental issues but chose to keep accessible guns in the house.

    She was NOT a responsible gun owner. We need gun advocates to scream loudly rather than to always defend the irresponsible actions of gun owners.

    Instead, we get the mentality of

    Any Gun
    Anywhere
    Anytime
    by Anyone

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 12, 2013 5:15 a.m.

    I stil haven't had anyone explain to me how making sure bad people don't have easy access to guns through the back ground check process is creating a constitutional hurdle to owning guns.

    Yes, checking IDs to buy alcohol hasn't stopped minors from obtaining what they want on Friday nights.... but it has made it harder on them. But we don't abandon ID laws because they can be gotten around either. And having ID laws doesn't prevent those who are of legal age to drink from obtaining what ever they want either.

    Lee and the other NRA surrogates are just raising red herring issues to slow this down. I applaud their fight to keep gun access for law abiding citizens....but fighting common sense legislation to make it harder on the wrong people from buying guns is totally out of touch with most Americans.

    Background checks we not prevent any law abiding citizen from obtaining a weapon.

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    April 12, 2013 5:28 a.m.

    There is nothing brave or noble about holding your breath. I bet the senator was known as child of taking his ball, and going home if he started losing at basketball. So now if you cannot make any rational argument,you just stand up and waste everyones time.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    April 12, 2013 5:35 a.m.

    Spin city. Holy cow! I guess he revealed the most ardent servants of the NRA.

  • Ricardo Carvalho Provo, UT
    April 12, 2013 6:21 a.m.

    Dear Senator - Please quit participating in the bogging down of our political process. Many of us share your views on gun control. Many of us do not. Almost all of us, however, prefer a Congress that works together to give issues an honest hearing and then takes a vote on what they and their constituents think is best for the nation. Please be part of a Senate that works together to get things done rather than one who attempts to silence debate in a way that will can only deepen the political divide. We have too much to do as a nation to be caught up in such political pettiness.

  • SherryPC Salt Lake, UT
    April 12, 2013 8:02 a.m.

    What I don't understand is why it is so important to shut down discussion on this important issue. What can Mike (and Orrin) be so afraid of? Are they concerned that discussion will somehow break through their concrete minds and change them...thus losing their income from the NRA? The Senate and the Congress is supposed to be a place for consideration and thoughtful contemplation. Not place for fear and loathing. What a shame and embarrassment that our Senators are afraid of debate.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    April 12, 2013 8:07 a.m.

    None of the recent mass shootings have been done with fully automatic weapons.

    Why do you think that is?

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    April 12, 2013 8:21 a.m.

    I don't regard background checks as gun control at all.

  • Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT
    April 12, 2013 8:27 a.m.

    JoeBlow
    Far East USA, SC
    None of the recent mass shootings have been done with fully automatic weapons.

    Why do you think that is?

    ----------

    Could it be that they have become HIGHLY regulated. Yes, you can still own one, but the background tests and registrations process is VERY tenuous.

    BINGO!

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    April 12, 2013 8:56 a.m.

    Adam Lanza had a gun safe in his bedroom. Investigators also found a card and check written to Adam to purchase another gun from his mother. He tried to buy another gun shortly before the massacre, but didn't complete the purchase because of a 14 day waiting period.

    On a sad note, Rev Rick Warren's son purchased the gun he used through the internet.

    As for the argument that gun control won't stop gun crime:
    Burglar alarms don't stop all burglaries. Seatbelt laws don't stop all car accident deaths. Speed limits don't stop speeding, texting while driving laws don't stop all texting. Should we repeal these laws?

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    April 12, 2013 9:00 a.m.

    60,000 gun deaths every year and Senator Lee refuses to even talk about legislation to prevent it. How is that a "success" in any way shape or form?

  • EDM Castle Valley, Utah
    April 12, 2013 9:27 a.m.

    I don't know how the self-proclaimed constitutional scholar reconciles his position on this when all the while there is any number of arms we cannot bear because they are illegal to possess - a shoulder-fired missile, let's say. The large majority of us understand that the 2nd doesn't guarantee the right to own any weapon we might want to have. So in a way, it's just splitting hairs when we're talking about restrictions on high-capacity magazines, and the like. But how significant such a small change might be for our safety!

  • PeanutGallery Salt Lake City, UT
    April 12, 2013 9:32 a.m.

    I encourage Sen. Lee to continue standing up for freedom and the Constitution. Too bad we don’t have a lot more politicians with the courage, principles, and wisdom to do so.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    April 12, 2013 10:56 a.m.

    Not a surprise that even his own partisans muzzled this obstructionist. Forestall all debate? Forbid any discussion at all? That's what Lee wanted, and thank heaven he didn't get it. Un-elect Lee in 2016!

  • Brando Provo, UT
    April 12, 2013 11:10 a.m.

    I for one am hugely embarrassed that one of our senators would try to prevent even a discussion from happening on this important piece of legislation. Whatever your views on the topic, this debate is important and it needs to happen. Also as the majority of Utahns support expanded background checks, it is greatly irresponsible of him to try and block this vote. So, Senator Lee, I'm sorry if you don't like being called an obstructionist. But I say if the shoe fits...

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    April 12, 2013 11:18 a.m.

    ‘Sen. Lee says effort to stop debate on gun control bill not a failure’

    =======

    ‘Sen. Lee says effort to foreclose on his house for not making payments - avoided by a short sale - not a failure’

  • Thucydides Herriman, UT
    April 12, 2013 11:19 a.m.

    Well it appears that Mike Lee has officially moved into the realm of demagoguery and irrationale... yes Mike, please protect me from the perils of universal background checks.

    The only people you are trying to protect are gun manufacturers and their profits.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    April 12, 2013 11:18 a.m.

    JoeBlow
    Far East USA, SC
    None of the recent mass shootings have been done with fully automatic weapons.

    Why do you think that is?

    8:07 a.m. April 12, 2013

    ===============

    BEST answer ever!

    Perfect - Cut and Pasted for later!

    Bravo.

    That "should" end this whole silly debate,
    but this sort of LOGIC, Sound Reasoning, and Common Sense is lost to partisan snips and AM talk radio show hacks who wind up the paranoid masses.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    April 12, 2013 11:22 a.m.

    So the people who want to take Guns away and yes I say take Guns away because they are already doing this in New York to veterans and anybody else who has seen a psychiatrist or has been on medication of any kind in the last 5 years, are the same people who all have conceal and carry permits, have ran Guns into mexico to give to the drug cartels and have armed security themselves.

    The Gun grabbers love guns, just not in the hands of people or anybody the deem to be mentally ill.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    April 12, 2013 11:51 a.m.

    The image of Mike Lee that's starting to emerge is as one of those extreme Republicans who plays to the Rush Limbaugh faction of the party.

  • mightyhunterhaha Kaysville, UT
    April 12, 2013 12:13 p.m.

    Lee does not represent Utah. He represents his slef and his dillusions that he know the Constitution better than anyone else. He is an obstructionist. He does not even do the job for which he was elected. The only thing he knows is the word "No!" He needs to be replaced. Bennet and Hatch represent Utah and the actually work or worked to resolve issues.

  • Trust Logic Brigham City, UT, 00
    April 12, 2013 12:53 p.m.

    Make no mistake, Mike is not trying to avoid debate. He thrives on it! He's simple exploiting a loophole where he can possibly stop legislation he doesn't want with 40% instead of having to convince 50%! I disagree with a lot of this proposed legislation for some points that I think can be debated. But, I disagree more with this manipulative 'cheating' of which he will complain about when the Democrats use it as a minority in the future. If we feel strongly about what the Forefathers created, let's follow the rules they established!

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    April 12, 2013 1:19 p.m.

    "....If we feel strongly about what the Forefathers created, let's follow the rules they established!"
    ______________________________

    Filibustering is not proscribed by the Constitution. It's authorized under Senate Rule XXII which can by changed by the Senate itself. The reason they don't change it is because both sides want it there when their party is in the minority. It's justified as a check and balance but it in empowering the minority to obstruct the will of the majority by preventing a bill from being voted on or even debated, it's also regarded as obstructing democracy as most Americans see it.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 12, 2013 1:46 p.m.

    "The Gun grabbers love guns, just not in the hands of people or anybody the deem to be mentally ill."

    Yep.... and I pretty much agree with them.

    You want guns in the hands of the mentally ill?

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    April 12, 2013 2:05 p.m.

    I wish Mike Lee would have held onto his financial obligation [house payments}
    1/1,000,000th as strongly as he holds onto this.

    No wonder he [and other GOP leaders] doesn't want background checks,
    They probably couldn't pass one themselves.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 12, 2013 11:24 p.m.

    The "low information" lemmings are running to support something that sounds good, but is a Trojan horse for the left's ultimate goal- gun confiscation.

    "Universal background checks" are nothing but thinly disguised universal registration of guns and gun owners. Background checks are NOT about stopping criminals or prosecuting them, or more than a handful out of tens of thousands of criminal attempts by crooks to buy guns each year would be prosecuted, not just ignored. That proves that background checks are not what backers claim them to be.

    Even the Toomey Manchin version is nothing but delayed universal gun REGISTRATION as it allows a central database of dealer records every three years, even though they ban such a list at the time the check was run.

    Sorry, I am not willing to have my rights taken away on any pretext, even if it is popular with low information voters or the advocacy media.

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    April 13, 2013 7:35 a.m.

    Senator Lee,
    Thank you for preventing us from diong the wrong thing. Now make progress on how to decrease gun violence. It's not enough to just stand in the doorway, give us a plan to protect those who do not want to be their own vigilante.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    April 13, 2013 7:54 a.m.

    Not a failure. Just a huge waste of time, energy and effort.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    April 13, 2013 10:16 a.m.

    Give me liberty or give me death. I can't stand living in a regime that used to be a free country 100 years ago and being duped into thinking the regime is a free country.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    April 13, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    Background checks of this kind leads to registration which leads to confiscation. this happens everytime.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    April 13, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    It's never going to be enough for these people. they will always take more and more until there is nothing left and you are just left with all the mental faculties of a Robot.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    April 13, 2013 12:41 p.m.

    Anti really has it going today. I hope he identifies his new nation since he "can't stand" it here any longer. I hear it's nice in Costa Rica, but haven't actually been there. I hope that wherever he ends up that they have high speed internet.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 13, 2013 8:26 p.m.

    "low information voters "

    It is amazing how some feel that just because other people disagree with, that they must be "low information".... good grief.... were these "high information" voters in a special school.... where the secrets to reading other peoples minds was taught? What in the world makes these people think they are so superior to those who don't think like them.

    Both President Monson and Brother Uchtdorf just last week went to great lengths to discourage this kind of superiority complex way of thinking.... that only one is right. I have yet to see a case where insulting your opposition gains you any who believe you case more.....

    I

  • UtahVET1 Sandy, Utah
    April 15, 2013 7:00 a.m.

    Henry Drummond
    "60,000 gun deaths every year"
    Where did you get this number? Could you also break down the type of death by guns? Is this just a fabrication like when the media and president say 94% of Americans support gun control(Gun owner registration), when they only poll 500 people.

  • UtahVET1 Sandy, Utah
    April 15, 2013 7:05 a.m.

    Brando
    Provo, UT
    " the majority of Utahans’ support expanded background checks"
    Is the poll you reference the one where only 500 people were polled? The same one referenced in the article. I don't find 500 people to be the majority.

    Key Research Utah Statewide Voter Survey, 2013 1st Quarter
    Interview Dates: January 22, 2013 - January 25, 2013

    Topline Results and Methodology

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    April 15, 2013 7:16 a.m.

    "I do think there are certain times we should infringe on your freedom, Mayor Bloombergs power house statement and echoed by the anti gunners I have read on this forum. "But then liberals always feel your pain unless they caused it".

  • UtahVET1 Sandy, Utah
    April 15, 2013 7:20 a.m.

    I conducted a poll of all Utahans' that I have spoken with and 100% are in favor of not changing any gun laws. I compared this poll with others that have been done and determined the margin of error in this poll compared with the other polls to be less than 0.01%

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    April 16, 2013 9:00 a.m.

    tabuno, I have lived in Salt Lake Valley all my life. I've always owned guns. I'm not part of your "rural gun culture". I'm part of the "Urban gun culture". I'm fine with the way the house districts have been drawn. Living up in Clearfield, you would always be in the northern Utah District.

  • Crank santaquin, UT
    April 16, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    Discussion, debate, and having a vote IS democratic. What would be the antithesis of democracy? Why Mr. Lee's bill of course! This brand of politics runs with the same people who want to 'take back America'. They can't win using the democratic process so they they use 3rd world, tyrannical, anarchist methods instead. Folks, if your against 'gun control', then all felons and the mentally ill should have the same rights as you to own a machine gun, grenades, anti-air craft weapons and a howitzer. Or, you are for regulation. You can't have your cake and eat too. Reasonable laws put in place to mitigate the number children killed our next massacre is not a violation of constitutional rights. It's democracy working the way it was intended.

  • county mom Monroe, UT
    April 16, 2013 12:30 p.m.

    By the way people "criminals" do not keep laws. No matter how many laws you pass and how much harder you make it for law abiding citizens to get guns, you will not stop criminals from getting them. Breaking the law is what they do!
    On that same topic, maybe we should pass laws to make it harder for for law abiding citizens to buy cars. We have way more people killed in auto accidents then by guns per year. We need to make sure no one who could possibly drive drunk or distracted can have access to a car.
    So there will be no fatalities!
    Can you all see the stupidity in these laws?
    The Newtown shooter broke 41 laws, do you honestly think 1 more would have stopped him?

  • CPA Howard Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
    April 16, 2013 12:29 p.m.

    Why not start enforcing the current gun control laws and see if it makes a difference. The proposed law wouldn't have stopped the shooting. In fact they worked because the shooter attempted to purchase a gun legally and failed the background check.

    FYI a Glock pistol was used in the shooting and not an AR-15. However, the media again ignored the facts and made the argument about legal simi-automatic rifles.