I certainly hope the senate and the house will vote on the gun bills. We, the
public need to see our legislature working together to get something positive
Sen. Lee- Please be prepared, and step up and speak for as long as it takes to
halt any infringement on our rights, especially the deceptively named
"universal background checks" which are nothing but a scheme to register
every gun and gun owner which would do nothing to reduce crime, but is essential
for eventual confiscation of privately owned guns.It is telling that
Sen. Lee has principles and announces his positions, while our superannuated
senior Senator Hatch plays his usual chameleon political role by pretending to
"study" and then after sensing which way the polls are trending will
announce his position. It is embarrassing when the new kid on the block is a
better senator than one with 36 years seniority.In any case,
Obama's gun ban schemes need to be stopped by whatever means necessary.
Sen. Lee— please don't make Utahns look like a bunch of idiots. How
you sleep at night is beyond me.
High taxes are destroying the economy, and peoples lives.Let Obama
fly around with Air Force One, and campaign for "tax control".
I have been a hunter all my life, I don't use assault weapons to hunt and
it never takes more than one bullet to get the job done - if it did I would
spend more time at the shooting range. If I felt threaten at home my 12 gauge
would be the first thing I would grab. Why anyone would be opposed to the
measurements like background checks, assault weapon/high capacity magazine
regulations is beyond common sense, that is unless you have something to hide. I
have heard the argument of "taking our weapons away" but that is just a
paranoid delusion, no one has said anything about taking guns away. What I want
to know how many dead children will it take to satisfy Senator Lee and his
"I don't understand it," McCain said on a Sunday morning talk show.
"What are we afraid of?""They are afraid that they will
be forced to take a vote that they know is against the wishes of the majority of
Americans. (around 90% of Americans favor background checks)They
they will have to explain why they voted the way they did.Filibuster
= no votes.Its all about politics as the GOP can stop any bill from
Hypocrites. That's what our politicans are. Senator Lee is a terrible
Senator and a poor example of our State. Senator Bennett was a statesman who
played an active role in our democracy. Senator Lee is far from that.
He'll never get anything done and will continue to be isolated by others in
D.C. because of his narrow, partisan views and tactics.
DaveRL=gun rights are protection from government, not hunting. Have you tried
buying ammo lately? Think government isn't trying to take away our guns?
I'd like to see the vote in the Senate just because there are some
republican state Democrats who will be very reluctant to show their true colors
with the vote. It will be interesting to see how Harry Reid trys to protect
them. It might end up being Reid who does not want this vote, as it could cost
him the majority in the 2014 election.
‘Sen. Lee says fight against gun control likely won't include
'speaking filibuster'’============ Let
me guess...He floated a political balloon and it got popped, when he discoverd that 85% of Utahns favor, wanted and support back-ground
checks?But he continues to pander to last reamining 15% of the
extreme radical right-wing who keep thinking that because the Founding Fathers
didn't bother to expound and specifically spell out each and every thing
allowed or not allowed by the 2nd amendment [such as, banning weapons from
children, criminals, and the mentally ill] because the writers of the
Constitution assumed we'd be smart enough 230 years later to use our good
own common sense and figure out that isn't such a good idea on our own?!Seriously.
Hey Worf, I ask you this seeing how you bad mouth a lot of people and things on
here. And just where is it stated under your 2 amendment rights that your a
forded bullets? And if you feel the need to shoot then the cost of said bullets
should not be a concern to you or any one else that shoots. And as another
person stated on a different page people will get them no matter the cost and
they compared it to crack heads wanting crack where there's away
there's a will.
It's amazing how well one can sleep at night when you have made a decision
based on principles, which in this case is the Constitution.
Does anyone else remember the days not so long ago when republicans insisted on
allowing simple up and down votes? Does anyone here really think those same
people will have any insight into why we have a system in place that allows the
minority in the senate to block certain legislation when the shoe is on the
worfMcallen, TXDaveRL=gun rights are protection from government, not
hunting. Have you tried buying ammo lately? Think government isn't trying
to take away our guns?8:49 a.m. April 10, 2013============ Let me guess -- another vast-right-wing
conspiracy.The gv'mnt taken away dim dar bullets! hrumpf!Ever hear of supply and demand?Eco 101If you gun nuts
weren't ALL out buying up as much ammo as you can get your hands on,
hording up enough ammo to prepare for a ficticous armegeddeon that isn't
real - there'd be plenty of ammo.You are a victim of your OWN
“I never rule out anything. But I don't anticipate, given the
procedural posture we're in with this bill, the need to use a speaking
filibuster.”"I'm a politician. I'm always
prepared to speak at length, but I don't anticipate that's going to
happen." Sen. Mike Lee=========== Says
the man who stopped making paymetns on his mortgage, and somehow
negotiated a sweet deal short-sale on his mansion, sticking it to the rest
of us who DO make our finacial obligations and live within our means.Perhaps he filibustered the bank holding his note?Just refused to agree
on any terms until they finally just gave up?THAT says more about
Mike Lee, than Mike Lee says about Mike Lee.
To "LDS Liberal" I don't think you know anything about what you
have written today.First of all the Government IS buying up a lot of
ammunition. See Forbes "1.6 Billion Rounds Of Ammo For Homeland Security?
It's Time For A National Conversation". Why does Homeland Security
need that many rounds.Second, when a person gets a short sale on a
home, the only entity that has to eat the cost is the bank. If a bank loses
money on a short sale, there are no reprocussions for anybody except their stock
holders, and then that is very minor compared to when a bank has to forclose on
a home.Nice rants, but once again factually lacking on your part.
If Mike Lee wants to stand for something, let him walk the talk. A threatened
"nonspeaking" filibuster does nothing to move the debate forward, to
protect the constitution, or to safeguard the general public. Have the courage
of your convictions or step aside, Mr. Senator. If you have nothing to add to
the conversation, Senator Lee, then vote "NO" on the bill and move on to
issues you can talk about.
@redshirt did I log into some alternate universe? Did a conservative
poster really just ask why the people charged with defending our country really
need to buy so much ammo and insist we need to have a national conversation
about why they are doing so?
Re: TolstoyYou do have a good point. My only comment is that our
system seems to have balances built into it that allow minority power so that
the majority will not always overwhelm the minortiy. Look at what happened with
Obamacare when the Democrats had supermajorities and passed it without any
minority input. That being said, I think it is in the courts where this
principle really applies, as in a hand full of judges can legislate to overturn
the will of the majority of people. Prop 8 probably being the latest coming
example. Sometimes minority power works for you and sometimes it doesn't.
I'd rather have the fillabuster in the Senate than a few judges blocking
the peoples vote. At least we can throw those bums out.
If all those who want this gun legislation could actually show how this will
help stop what the proponents actually say it will do, please step up and show
me some evidence. The evidence of violence in the states that have the
strictest gun laws does not hold up as a reason to support this legislation. In
fact, the evidence is quite the contrary. Those states that are the safest have
the most liberal gun laws. But, when citizens are driven by compulsion, rather
than liberty, nothing can or ever will be said that could persuade that citizen
@mg scott if the filibusterer fails those "bums" maybe the only
thing left to protect your constitutional rights as is the case with those that
are fighting back against prop 8. Being in the minority for a change can kind of
change your prospective can't it?
@mg scottSo how exactly would the judicial be able to protect the rights
of the minority of they could simply be voted out by the majority? Those
activist judges maybe end up being your last line of defense if the filibuster
fails and once again I suspect you will be singing a much different tune. As
Tolstoy already stated above there is a logical reason our system is set up the
way it is.
MelannaSalt Lake City, Utah@redshirt did I log into some
alternate universe? Did a conservative poster really just ask why the people
charged with defending our country really need to buy so much ammo and insist we
need to have a national conversation about why they are doing so?12:35 p.m. April 10, 2013============ Alternate
universe -- Yes..becasue SOME people insist the United States is their
worst enemy, and Communist China is our best friend (i.e., whatever's
good for the bottom line, business partner).
"If all those who want this gun legislation could actually show how this
will help stop what the proponents actually say it will do, please step up and
show me some evidence."OK, have you noticed that many of the
mass shootings are done with semi-automatic weapons?Why not Fully
Automatic weapons? Isn't is likely that the reason is that they
are not available for sale and have not been for a long long time?
To "Melanna" homeland security is not the department of defending our
nation. That is the Military's job. Why does the DHS need all of those
rounds? According to the DHS website, everything outside of border enforcement,
they are just a go-between that gets the appropriate information to the right
agency. So again, why do they need so much ammunition? If they have 1.6
billion rounds, why is it that the DHS says that they have an ammo shortage?You have failed to answer the simple question of, what do they need with
that much ammo? That is enough for each border patrol agent to have 72,000
rounds.Again, since DHS's only responsibilities that they have
where guns are needed is for immigration and border control, why so much
ammo?If you say they are doing other things, then again, why the
redundant intelligence/military agency?
@redshirtwhy don't you tell us you where all for the DHS until Obama
came into office.
Yes Red. Another bureaucratic government redundant agency created by the GOP
with complete congressional control.I seldom defend the Dems because
I have said numerous times that they are big spenders and lovers of government.
But I do point out the GOP is just as likely to do all the same things that you
crow about daily on these boards.Just like Medicare Part D and
NCLB. Can you imagine the maelstrom had Obama and the Dems championed those
Why doesn't John McCain just join his buddies like Harry Reid and become a
Democrat? Geez - you can finally clearly see all the 'pretend
conservatives' as they are finally unmasked. McCain needs to follow his
fellow purple republicans like Bob Bennett into retirement. Rand Paul, Ted Cruz,
Mike Lee and other conservatives are the only 'real' GOP members left
standing. I would rather lose every election and stand as a true conservative
than compromise with Satan and his progressive brethren.
@redshirtfrom the DHS website "The department is designed to absorb
several federal agencies dealing with domestic defense, including the Coast
Guard, the Border Patrol, the Customs Service, the Immigration and
Naturalization Service, the Secret Service, and the Transportation Security
Administration (which was created after September 11 to oversee airline
security). Its responsibilities include exploring ways to respond to terror
attacks and working to better coordinate intelligence about terrorist threats.
The department is also expected to implement much of the National Strategy for
Homeland Security." so their only job is to secure our borders and protect
us from terrorist attacks across the globe, i cant imagine why they may need
ammo for that it must be a conspiracy.
Let me guess....Rush Limbaugh is telling all his dittoheads that the gubment is
after their ammo. I can always tell what he's preaching without ever
listening to him. Well, maybe not Rush. Maybe Glenn or another one of the
conspiracy gang. The government is buying bullets! Who knew that FBI agents,
DEA agents, etc. needed ammo!
I actually have been really happy with Senator Lee. Obviously he's not
perfect, but I like that he is a man of principle (at least in politics, I
can't speak for his personal life) and he stands up and fights for those
principles. Also, I'm still not sure why we are even having a gun debate.
Things are exceptionally safe in most of the country. I also still have
philosophical issues with the idea that people can tell me how, when, and where
I am allowed to defend myself. If you think you have some sort of right, legal
or philosophical, to tell people that you have some severe narcissism issues.
To "JoeBlow" who cares who created the mess. The previous
administration was lead by a Progressive, he just wasn't as bold of
Progressive as what we have now. Does it really matter where the bad idea comes
from?To "Tolstoy" again, why do they need 1.6 billion rounds
of ammunition? How many TSA agents are armed?You keep dancing
around the problem, and the issue.
Re: Melanna and KalindraEither you two did not read my post or I
really was not clear. I'm in favor of the fillabuster because it is done
by elected officials who can protect the minority position. I hope it will work
in this congress to stop as much of Obama/Reid/Pelosi as possible. I know that
when Harry Reid becomes the minority leader he will also use it. That's
fine with me. Keep the fillabuster. My point about judges is that only a few,
sometimes only one, can make rulings that overturn the democratic process and
with judges there is no accountability as there is with elected officials.
Therefore if power to overrule the majority exists, if prefer it exist with
people who can be accountable.
I would like Senator Lee to temper his actions and comments against the Obama
administration.I understand it would be difficult to prove but I
think their might be some retaliation in the form of program cuts to Utah and
Federal facilities here in the state.The dramatic cut in funding for
the Central Utah Project would be one example.
@ worf, well I'm a reloader so I don't have to buy tons of ammo, but
in speaking to my local gun shop, yes there has been a run on ammo nation-wide,
but it has been by paranoid gun owners and militia types who are creating the
shortage. @ Redshirt I have a long line of law enforcement (federal,
state, county) and military in my family so some still active. I hate to bust
your bubble but yes Homeland security did buy all that ammo....they did a mass
purchase for all Federal law enforcement offices nation-wide. Just simple
economics large purchase better price, saving tax payer dollars.
Just a thought. I wonder how much time and how many dollars it has
cost the State of Utah to send it's numerous "message bills" to the
Federal Government?Would you expect the Federal Government to send a
message bill back to Utah?My opinion is our Senator Lee has been
such a thorn in the side of the Federal Government that it is natural to have
some push back from the Federal Government.I wonder how this push
back will manifest it self?
Senator Lee represents our Constitutional Republic with it's guarantee of
individual rights for all US citizens.Those who comment that he
represents a fringe are in fact a fringe themselves representing the philosophy
of the big-government/banking monopoly who want to take us back two hundred and
37 years to a time when the we were ruled by a monarchy in Europe.