Who is George Handley?is he related to rachel madcow, joy behar, or
keith olbermann?Why not just post comments by Lilburn Boggs?
@ lost in DC:I believe he is a professor of humanities at BYU. So,
just like Lilburn Boggs, I guess.
Re: "Mormon pioneer tale similar to those of other immigrants"Even if that were true [which it decidedly is not], why would it obligate me
to support the modern open-borders crowd?The real question is not
whether modern immigration abuse is similar to any past abuses, but whether
there is any history of past immigration abuse that ended happily for the
non-immigrants.Mormon immigration to Utah didn't work out so
well for the Native Americans, did it?
Re: lost in DC West Jordan, UTObviously Handley doesn't
reflect your views. However, he does reflect the contradiction in the historical
narrative and current thinking in the Beehive State.When one
discusses intolerance today, people in Utah seem to have selective amnesia and
forget how things were before Mormon's became the "model religion".
Except for the fact that they don't play too well on the national
political scene, their conservative social views have led them to embrace a
political party that wants nothing to do with them than have their vote. The
state has shifted from being conservative democrat to extremely conservative
republican.A story needs to be written about this right-ward
political shift and an almost incestuous infatuation with the John Birch Society
and extreme, conservative thinking. Although that move finds favor with many
readers here, it is very different from the communal nature of the early
pioneers. Perhaps that is because once some people get through the door and get
what they want, they slam it closed to keep others from gaining access and
competing with them for the available rewards. It's an old story of
immigration in this country.
micawber,association with BYU does not cut it with me, I graduated from
the university Brigham Young founded, not the one named after him.:)It would have been good journalism had the DN indicated who this joker was. I
guess that's expecting too much.hatter, it was not a
desire for the ideals of the republican party that caused Utah to be among the
reddest of the red, it was the moral decay of the dem party that forced us away
from the dems.
I am appalled by some of the name-calling and closed minded comments that people
have posted on this article. My grandparents came to this country from Europe in
the late 1920's for similar reasons, looking for a "land of
opportunity." Later they joined the LDS Church and considered this State
their final home. Even though we do have a significant problem in this country
with managing legal immigration, that is still no good reason to be so cold and
derogatory towards others. If you disagree with the author or the Utah Compact,
I suggest that you try and do it respectfully with a good argument for your
case. The bitterness we can do without, it only cause others to fight back,
whick gets us nowhere.
ronk-sandyWhy do you put such restrictions on people who disagree
with the Utah Compact and not expect the same from the people who disagree with
our national government?
Did the Mormon pioneers accept WIC?How about food stamps, or
welfare?As we travel around the state, why don't we have people
speaking: German, Italian, Swedish, Russian? I wonder how long the
schoolteachers of 1910 would have continued teaching kids who refused to learn
English? Before the 1930's, when the country was forming both
on an industrial scale and a cultural basis we needed MASS amounts of immigrants
and things worked out well because we were agrarian based.That is no
longer the case.The argument made in this article is one of the weakest
that the open borders crowd makes but every now and then they like to resurrect
it.Two weeks ago dozens of immigrants became naturalized citizens.
They came the LEGAL way so don't tell me it can't be done.We need to have compassion for our LEGAL citizen neighbors who are out of
work, many of them displaced by labor that will work for substandard wages.Where's the compassion for them?Unethica employers, of
course, don't need to pay the real labor rate because they can avoid all
the pesky employment taxes and workers compensation issues.
Were the "Mormons" viewed as being here illegally? What does
"viewed as" mean? Was there an existing law that prohibited
"Mormons" or anyone else from entering the Great Salt Lake Valley?
Where is a copy of that law? I can find no listing of any such law although I
spent less than an hour searching on the Internet.Today, coming into
the United States without permission is illegal. Then, entering the Mexican
Territory from the United States was not illegal. Those who enter illegal have
broken laws. The "Mormons" broke no laws. Before extending
"mercy" to someone for having broken a law, shouldn't a law exist?
As a legal immigrant who also worked in an American Consulate I saw how
difficult it was for Europeans to come to the U.S. legally. The
problem with open borders in the south is the drug cartel is operating in the
U.S. If you don't believe it talk to some of the sherrifs in the border
states. Terrorists are also walking across the border. I guess you can guess
they are joining with the drug cartels. Is this the country we want?And you really don't want to start an arguement as to why most Mormons
left the democratic party.
The current administration's solution to the problem of illegal immigration
is to keep the job market so depressed that coming here for a job is futile. Of
course this hurts the citizens too. What is kind and respectful
More propaganda, designed to persuade us to believe that looking the other way
at illegal immigration, and welcoming persons into this country who disdain it,
its sovereignty, and its laws, is the right way, irrespective of the suffering
it causes society at large.
The pioneers entered Mexico without leave from the Mexican government. Illegal.
When the US annexed the area, the pioneers were then squatters who paid nothing
for the land they lived on. Illegal. Not until 1862 with the Homestead Act was
it legal to do what they had done on Federal property.
Re: "Not until 1862 with the Homestead Act was it legal to do what they had
done on Federal property."Yeah. So?The only
relevance discusison of a purported past abuse could possibly have to the
current conversation would be to illuminate whatever good results open-borders
proponents claim we -- current residents -- should expect from permitting the
abuses to continue.So, to the liberal, open-borders crowd -- what
positives to indigenous Native Americans did the 1847 Mormon immigration
produce? And can we expect the same benefits from current immigration law
"soon to be contested"Look up the dates of the Mormon
battalion and the Mexican-American war. Why are people lying about this, when
it's in the history books? Utahns should be more compassion to
the victims, not the criminals. We have ignored the 23 million looking for full
Those who pretend that the Mormon Pioneers were illegal aliens show their
historical illiteracy. There was no immigration law pertaining to the area
they settled when they came here.Eventually when US immigration
restrictions became the law in Utah (when Utah became a State)... Mormon leaders
changed their policy of encouraging members to come to Zion and encouraged
members to stay where they are (expressedly because of United States Immigration
restrictions).No... the Pioneers were NOT illegal aliens. And
anybody who tells you they were doesn't know their historical facts and is
pushing an agenda that is not supported by the facts.It's a
matter of law and facts people... not inuendo and anti-mormon rhetoric! If the
pioneers were here illegally... they would have been prosecuted! Some
territorial leaders were looking for things to prosecute the mormons for... if
they were here illegally, they could have deported them. And yet...
there's not a single case of deportation. They did NOT come to the United
States illegally. And there was no Mexican immigration law pertaining to the
Utah territory at the time as well.
It's a good thing he's a prophesor of HUMANITIES and not HISTORY.
Because his Historical facts are WAY off. The pioneers were not here
illegally. There was no immigration law for this are when they came.