The church cooperates with China because in the long run, it is the best way for
the church to eventually enter that country. And the revelations say that the
gospel must go to every nation and people. But cooperation with Chinese leaders
does not mean that God looks lightly on their denying billions of people basic
freedoms. Denying billions of people basic freedoms, including freedom of
worship, is a gross sin. LDS leaders might not openly say that, because of the
long term mission to enter countries "through the front door." But I
still believe it to be true.
I think Mormon missionaries can be naive and annoying, but its unbelievable how
intolerant the Chinese government is. I know its like this in most Middle East
countries as well.Can you imagine if our government told all Muslims
they couldnt talk about their religion with others or access religous material
online. People who hail from these intolerant countries have little to complain
about in terms of how they are treated in the United States, when compared with
how their homeland countries treat Christians.
I think the US government should make an agreement with the Chinese government.
We'll continue to allow tens of thousands of your people to come to our
universities so long as you allow our people to come and do as they please in
your country.I'm typically not supportive of Mormon
missionaries, and my argument is significantly broader than wishing Mormons
could send missionaries there. I just think its poor foreign policy by not
standing up for our own country and citizens by the US accepting so many Chinese
nationals who are allowed to do whatever they please in the US, yet we make no
such demands of the chinese when our people travel/live there.I
imagine if we restricted the religious desires of the Chinese who visited/lived
here the Chinese governemnt would be very upset. I wish our government did more
to protect the rights/interests of our people, by simply demanding the same
treatment the Chinese wish for their people.
While I was serving my mission in Korea, a group of Korean missionaries were
captured in Afganistan, I believe, and held for ransom. I don't know if it
was a big story here in America, but it was on the news every single day for a
couple weeks and a few of them were executed before it was resolved. This
strenthened my testimony of the church's 'entering through the front
door', as shark said.
Wow. That was actually a humane comment from Chris B. I honestly never thought
you had it in ya!
Cultural differences are thousands of years in the making, and while we may
think that some questions that we deal with on a daily baisis are fundamentally
moral, more often than not they aren't; they are, instead, the result of
culture. This is the case with the relationship between the USA and China.
Instead of showing our ignorance by judging them based on our own culture, we
should make a concerted effort to learn about them, not through the blurred
glass provided by our own propaganda, but through their own eyes. Because a
stranger is less likely to take your advice than a friend, we should do our part
to culturallty become "friends" with China; only then will they (and
us!) be open to a mutually beneficial relationship between nations in which we
all learn from each other and respect each other. Otherwise, we just show that
we've learned nothing since our days in grade school.
To LogicalPrime,Point taken, but some of this isn't so much about
Chinese culture as about Communism, and Communism did not start in China. It
started elsewhere, and became a plague on their society, just as it becomes a
plague wherever in the world it has been implemented.
The 12th articles of faith states: "We believe in being subject to kings,
presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the
law". This has always been the principle upon which our faith has operated
as they prepare and move into other countries of the world.
Chris B, Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I think we are hoping if we
"play by the rules", we will get reciprocation from moderate leaders at
some point in time.
Having traveled to China many times and spent a few weekends there it is hard to
find a church. Beijing has a couple of branches and the Church has a
"building" there. Actually the 4th floor of a building.
(Fascinating/miraculous story to be honest) It is very nice and it was like here
in the states. Same lessons etc. This building is also used for a Chinese
branch as well. But the Chinese and the international branch can not associate
with each other. This is an officiall santioned Chinese branch. The church has
a high respect for the rules and have abided by them. Sort of like Israel as we
too have church there too but meet on Saturday and no missionary work or
literature can be given out. It is not a matter of if but when these
countries will allow further work to be done but in the mean time we will abide
by the rules and make new friends. Once open there will be a base to start
with. Fun to see things happening. 50 years from now we will have some stories
to tell. (Assuming I am still around)
so every member is not a missionary, at least in China and Israel.
Chinese will convert. Anyone will convert as long as they have a shot at
getting the to U.S.
I have been to International branches in Bejing, Xian, and Canton. We never meet
with PRC members without a Chinese guard. No discussion of religion in any way
even with the guard.We had a (Western) picnic with the PRC members and
Chinese guards but when we got to the park you could not walk on the grass. So,
we sat on the sidewalk while passing people stopped, gathered and stood above us
like it was a show. I'm sure the guards think Mormon's are really
really weird.The rules are different for each church. Millions of
Muslims and Hindu are perfectly free to practice their faiths. The Catholics and
some Evangelists are more open but are believed to be bugged churces and
constantly watched. I think the LDS strategy to go way above and
beyond the law will earn the trust of the Chinese soon.Plus, every
member is a missionary. Just don't preach in China. PRC members can baptize
their own immediate family in the country. And living by example is a good
"so every member is not a missionary, at least in China and Israel."Missionary work is first done by example. There is a saying: Your
actions ring so loudly in my ears that I cannot hear what you are saying."Anyone will convert as long as they have a shot at getting the to
U.S."Actually, for the most part, the PRC members converted
while in the US or those other countries mentioned, and then returned to China.
Conversion was not to get to the US, it is to get home to Heavenly Father.
Modern day pioneers.
People have apparently forgotten that this is exactly the constraints under
which the church operated for decades in East Germany. It was allowed because
members rigorously respected the laws of the land in which it was occurring.
Should be interesting to see how it works through time.
Our 2nd counselor in the bishopric is a PRC convert doing research at our med
school. He, wife and four children will provide great leadership in China when
they go back.
flatlanderOmaha, NEOur 2nd counselor in the bishopric is
a PRC convert doing research at our med school. He, wife and four children will
provide great leadership in China when they go back.China still has
a one child policy and this family most likely will not be able to return to
China with 4 children. This policy is strongly enforced.
The Lord through his prophets work miracles through their obeying the
commandments that they exhort us to live. The acts of kindness also go a long
way as we deal with people of various beliefs, ethnic backgrounds and cultural
ways. Having lived in Europe, Asia, Central and South America and
travelling to 20-30 countries in peace and not so peaceful, we can learn from
all people. Trust and honor are the ways to make friends, through our actions
and through governmental means, also.
SMLGThe Chinese one child policy isn't exactly how you think it
is. It only applies to less than 40% of the population. The population has
still gone up 100 million in the past decade or so. Try checking it out on wiki.
China will probably have no problem with the four kids.
SMLG "China still has a one child policy and this family most likely will
not be able to return to China with 4 children. This policy is strongly
enforced."Nooo. This is only in the big cities. Rural families
wouldn't survive with a one child rule.