Just when I thought the legislature couldn't possibly be any dumber, they
go and do something like this... and totally redeem themselves!Dumb
& Dumber, 1994
My wife and I decided to accept government money to help us get 36-40 hrs/week
nursing care for our severely handicapped son who has both Down's Syndrome
and cerebral palsy. We had to apply for Medicaid for this, in order to qualify
for help. We now have sanity in our lives again. Otherwise, we would get only 36
hrs/month, because I am considered to make too much money, (ha, ha, yeah,
right). Our son is now 20 years old. I don't know what we would do without
it. Well-meaning home teachers and visiting teachers would never have the time
to even come close to meeting our needs, as much as they would sincerely try.
Needless to say, through tax payer money, via Medicaid, we have been
"blessed". Take advantage of it Utah. We sure did. Reap the blessings
now. We feel it comes from God.
I think the legislator needs to send a message to Washington that socialized
medicine will not be agreed to in Utah. It is that simple, besides no hospital
will refuse a patient, regardless of their ability to pay, I know- my Insurance
goes up each year and this year WAY more than ever.
Utah needs the Medicaid Expansion! Utah doesn't need all the
grandstanding that some of these legislators are doing. They are simply wasting
time crafting and arguing these "message bills" rather than focusing
their efforts on bills that can really make a difference in the lives of Utahns.
Rudedog is wrong. Hospitals can turn people away. When my husband needed eye
surgery at the Mayo clinic, we had to pay up front, before they would do the
operation that saved his eyesight. If we had not had access to that money, he
would be blind today. When we lived in Texas, twenty years ago, you had to pay
at least a portion, up front, before you could receive services. That policy is
still in practice today. To advocate for the poor to just go to the emergency
room implies that you expect them to steal the hospital's services. The
bitter truth is that the infamous "death panels" are already in place
for many who cannot afford access to health care. If you don't like the
Affordable Health Care Act, then you should have been involved in an alternate
solution. Otherwise, the "right to life" ends for many, at the door to
If Rudedog was serious about controlling the cost of healthcare, he would be in
favor of the Medicaid expansion, or better still, a single payer system. The
World Health Organization shows that Americans pay the most in the world, yet do
not cover all of our citizens for that amount and by far do not have the best
outcomes. Medicare and Medicaid control for the cost of treatment while still
allowing hospitals a 6% markup. Not a bad deal for them and by covering their
costs, the hospitals should not be dumping that expense onto their insured
customers. But then, as Rudedog has found, insurance companies and hospitals
pretty much do what they want. If the health care industry were truly
businesses, then they would post their prices and let us compare before we
It is unfortunate that our legislative body, both at the state and federal level
spend so much time fighting over how to provide affordable access to health
insurance and manage to ignore the 500 lb gorilla which is the cost of health
care in the United States. Time Magazine recently ran a special
report titled "Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us". This is a
very informative report on the exploding costs of medical care in the US. It
provides examples of people who didn't have insurance and how much they
were billed for their services. The article then goes on to show how much the
hospital bills Medicare for those same services and the difference is
astonishing. For me the most disturbing part of the article is how
much the CEOs of non-profit hospitals are paid which in some cases exceeds $5
mil a year.If costs continue to rise as they have we will find that
even expensive insurance plans will cover less and less and we will have to pay
more out-of-pocket for our health care.
To "Midwest Mom" you are wrong. Overall the US has the most responsive
medical system in the world in addition to having the best access to the most
modern equipment. We have the highest cancer survival rates, and if you remove
accidental deaths, we have he highest life expectancy in the world.To "matt4226" an easier way to lower costs is to cut the number of
mandates. Right now there are over 2000 mandates on insurance companies. That
is up from just a few hundred in 1980. Don't you think that there may be
some correlation between the number of mandates and the cost of insurance?
Medicaid is the most inefficient program. The waste that goes into
administration and implementation of this money-guzzler should deter expansion.
They can't handle the load they have and there's little accountability
for wasted time and duplication. To expand this program as it is would be
absolute insanity. Just a few problems: Unless you have regular paystubs (as
opposed to self-employed) it is a nightmare to "prove" eligibility.
They also want documentation with specific forms (think DL requirements here)
that are sometimes impossible. You can't speak to one individual; just
whomever answers after the 40-75 minute wait (assuming you have a phone or
unlimited minutes), then each rep gives different answers and requirements.
When time to requalify, they will ask for the same things all over again
including documentation of assets long gone such as a previous car. Paperwork
is lost/benefits denied requiring closure of case, then re-opening case
(waste!). Turnaround time for them is generous but for the applicant, very
restritive and maybe impossible if they have no mail service. Forget it if you
are divorcing with children, or ESL, or lacking in determination and
perseverance. Fix the broken system before trying to expand.
Actually, MidwestMom and Matt4226 are the ones who are right. The easiest way to
lower costs is to insure everyone so the insured aren't paying for the
uninsured. It is working, for the honest companies anyway, for the first time
ever our health care costs did not rise AT ALL. Many say theirs did but that is
from companies knowing many people expected the worse through their ignorance
and took advantage of making a quick buck. Mandates are in place for a reason,
they have been proven necessary. These mandates protect the people from the
crooked, build better information pools and help is more ways to count. People
who scream about mandates are usually the lazy or the crooked who don't
like being able to slack off. Our legislators show an extreme laxk of care for
it's citizens and that needs to change.
Ever expanding government will lead to bankruptcy and then even the very
responsible suffer. Utah needs to think long and hard before accepting more
government handouts because there are always strings attached. Obamacare or the
deceitful moniker affordable care act will quicken the bankruptcy of our great
country. I think we have all seen how Greece has responded.
The radical right legislates for the tea party, not the people.
Some have suggested the alternative of uninshured going to the Emergency Room.
Have you been to a busy ER lately and noticed what they chargefor the same
service that could have been provided by a clinic or Dr. office for 1/3 the
cost. If you are not paying for it ..... no problem!If those who do
not have have access to "free" ER's, whose lawn do they curl up on
to die. Maybe we could get a card with certain legislators address printed.Another effect is the impression that Utah is a good place to live, I
have talked to several out-of-staters who have questioned if they even want to
visit here because of our crazy laws & have questioned how much love we have
for each other despite what we say, yes message bills!
To "JustAnotherBrat" actually you are wrong. The easiest way to lower
costs is to get the government out of the way. Look at the medical system as a
whole. We currently don't have enough doctors to properly handle everybody
right now. So, when you add another 40 million to the system, that will
increase the cost to see a doctor because their time is now more valuable.
Plus, you have more people competing for the limited resources beyond face time
with the doctor.How do you plan on handling those issues without
cutting care? The European model says that you limit the treatments and
medications. The asian model would limit how often you can see a doctor. You
realize that in Switzerland they spend nearly as much as the US, but still fall
short on the ability of the US system to respond to illness.
Re: EveryoneRN4moms is right. My sister has to go through this
re-qualifying stuff now all the time. Something she did not have to do before
Obama. And she is getting turned down on procedures that her doctors
recommmend. Death panels anyone? I think that no matter how bad some of our
medical care might have been before Obamacare, it is getting worse now. And a
lot of Obamacare has not even gone into effect yet. This is a case of the cure
is worse than the disease. "Affordable care?"can you think of a bigger
@Rudedog We already have socialized medicine here in Utah. Each time you pay
your medical/insurance bills a portion of your billed amount will pay for
services people received who are unable to pay. Also, if you are so adamant
against socialism, please stop using the freeways, sidewalks, parks, water
The legislature's decision means some of the poor will continue to die and
many morewill continue to needlessly suffer. Right wing rhetoric and free market
blather are no substitutes for treating the sick and afflicted.
I disagee with legislator who said the fight is lost, Obamacare is now the law
of the land and the SCOTUS said it was constitutional.Slavery was
once the law of the land and constitutional. Just because the SCOTUS has said
it's OK and it is the law of the land does not mean you give up the fight.
Anderegg seems to think that if we don't take our share of the money
Congress is taxing us to pay for the Medicaid expansion then somehow we will not
have to pay for those taxes. That is kind of like leaving the merchandise you
paid for at the store and hoping they will magically send you a refund check.Perhaps he does not pay any federal taxes himself and so this is just
hypothetical for him. I pay federal taxes and want as much of that money to
come back to Utah as possible.
The Health Insurance Industry is the most inefficient program. The waste that
goes into administration and implementation of this money-guzzler should cause
it extinction.It is simply obscene that most insurance companies
spend a MINIMUM OF 30% of their premium income on administration. Medicare
spends less than 10%.It is simply obscene that many health insurance
companies pay their CEOs millions in salary and bonuses each year. Where does
that money come from? On the other hand, the highest paid
administrators of Medicare are paid a tiny fraction of the lavish pay scales of
Ok, treating the uninsured ends up costing more than Obamacare or increased
Medicaid would. You can not turn away a person in the ER if they don't have
insurance and we the texpayers get nailed with the bill anyway. Though I
supposed allowing for a free market to dictate the costs by allowing healthcare
to be purchases across state lines would be far too much to ask.
It seems health insurance companies charge an awful lot for coverage that they
then limit or deny. They dictate what treatment regimens/procedures you can or
can't have. They can dictate what doctors you visit. They are NOT health
care "providers". I am naive and do not understand. Health care
providers already pay for types of insurance for malpractice and such, so they
are protected that way. Why can't the actual health care providers use a
payment plan for billing based on income rather than by flat rating
treatment/procedures? We already have to pay providers for the portion insurance
doesn't cover. Wouldn't it be better to eliminate the middle guy
(health insurance companies) who's goals are out to make a
profit...who's interest is not based on the quality of care or
treatment...who do not care about what you/family can afford? Utah is full of
bargain hunters shopping at wholesale places in order to eliminate the middle
man to get their dollars to stretch further. Why is the health care industry so
different? Wouldn't this make a difference in health care cost problems?
So, let me get this straight. Some Legislator named Anderegg from Utah County
is upset because Federal programs are inefficient. He hates inefficiency. So, he crafts a bill keeping us from getting Federal money on needed
healthcare. If it passes, Utahans will suffer with less healthcare. But the
Internal Revenue Code still expects us to pay Federal taxes financing healthcare
for everyone else. So, we pay anyway. But we get no benefit.Sigh.
@mcdougall: The statement that water systems, parks, and freeways are socialist
is the most irresponsible form of hyperbole. You don't really believe that,
do you? We all use the freeway, water system, etc, and we all pay for their
creation and upkeep. Even the "very poor" who spend money on fuel, food,
utilities, and so on. Moreover, those are examples of things that government
simply oversees. You have to be able to see the difference between everyone
paying for water, and me paying for someone with a cold to go to the ER. I know
that socialism sounds like a good idea to many of you, but if you understood it
for what it really is rather than this romanticized idea that seems to inhabit
the dream world of every college student and inexperienced youth, you might
rethink your position.
Let's show those law makers in Washington that they can't force us
rednecks Republicans in Utah that we just want to pay into this Medicaid plan
but don't want any of our share back to help any needy in Utah. That will
show them. At the same time maybe we should form our own country! Now
there's an idea that should strike a cord here in the backwater country.