Quantcast
Utah

Bill would remove 'Zion curtain' in Utah restaurants that serve alcohol

Comments

Return To Article
  • Cincinnatus Kearns, UT
    Feb. 27, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    The "Zion Curtain" is ridiculous. I don't drink, and I question why it exists. Rep. Hutchings makes the statement that young people who drink impede the development of their brain, then doubles down on that statement. Nobody is arguing that here. Up for debate is whether or not a partition prevents drinking, and there is little to no evidence that it does. Kids are seeing alcohol in far more places than restaurants.

    This bill has a good chance of passing though, considering that Mike Waddoups is no longer the Senate President wielding his power to drive his personal agenda and that of Gayle Ruzuicka. Let's finally have a common sense debate about this.

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    Feb. 27, 2013 12:26 p.m.

    "You know I just wanted a Diet Coke with my meal, but after seeing them make that cocktail, I want one." said no teenager ever.

    Even if they had it would go like this

    Teen: I want a cocktail.
    Waiter: Can I see your ID?
    Teen either shows it
    Waiter: I'm sorry, we can only sell alchohol to adults over 21. May I suggest a Diet Coke?

  • solomongrundy Ogden, UT
    Feb. 27, 2013 12:31 p.m.

    I fail to see how lowering the Zion curtain will lead to underage drinking at bars and restaurants. The logic used here doesn't follow. Bars and restaurants, if they are following the law, check ID. Teens aren't going to be slugging back Long Island Ice Teas at the local Chili's anytime soon.

    Also, the comment that drinking alcohol leads to crime so we should ban it doesn't make logical sense. People speed in cars. Should we outlaw automobiles entirely? Some people steal cable tv and go on to watch inappropriate programming, should we outlaw cable tv?

  • ExDixieIte Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 27, 2013 12:38 p.m.

    Wait! This idea is logical and makes sense! But it relates to alcohol so we can't be logical and make sense. This is Utah, gosh darn it! Hide the booze! Do it for the children!

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    Feb. 27, 2013 1:09 p.m.

    Most teenagers already know about the existence of alcohol (it really isn't a secret) and it would seem to me that seeing consumption rather than preparation would be a bigger motivator for consumption.

    So logic would dictate that if the curtain were to remain in effect, that all consumption, not preparation would have to take place there.

  • Darkelf Taylorsville, UT
    Feb. 27, 2013 1:17 p.m.

    problem is they aren't supposed to drink. yet the church cant control its people. so what that tells me is the parents have failed at teaching their children they don't believe in drinking. they dont want to have to tell them they don't believe in not drinking alcohol. its my belief that if you religion tells you to teach you kids the thing that are right and wrong and you cant do that without forcing you beliefs on others. then maybe its time to look at taking all the people temples cards and rights away from them. they aren't listening to the rules and words of their god.

    you dont see me walk into the downtown temple and stand on a chair and say this is a story about exactly how babies are made. not talking birds and bees. i am talking medical details. dont tell me i can't sit in a restaurant and watch the bartender make me a drink

  • Darkelf Taylorsville, UT
    Feb. 27, 2013 1:43 p.m.

    tell you what. i have a toddler now. if she drinks and gets caught. i am not going to hire a laywer to get he off. i will go in take to the da and judge and say listen i dont want this to cost me money. i dont think she would learn if i pay it. but also dont want her getting off scott free. in reality if kids get caught and have to pay big fines. they dont have jobs. now if they have to actually work it off themselves as in community work. they will think twice about drinking.

    he is what i suggest to control underage drinking. put the fear of god into them. loss of license for 4 year. no plea bargining. if they are in high school get the school break schedule when they are out of school for weeks or even summer. they are up at 6am state will pick them up they will work 8 hours of cleaning or yard work or what other type of work. then be dropped off after work.

  • Richard Larson Galt, CA
    Feb. 27, 2013 2:31 p.m.

    The other day I told my boss
    what the zion curtain is and
    the purpose it served.
    She laughed so hard that
    she gave me a raise!

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Feb. 27, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    What's funny is I'm active LDS, my friends are (mostly) active LDS, and none of us support the idea of the Zion Curtain. I'm willing to bet that almost every young, active LDS church member in Utah is opposed to the Zion Curtain.

    What is it that causes a very small minority of LDS people to think that the Zion Curtain is a good idea, and how do seemingly all of them end up as state congressmen?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Feb. 27, 2013 3:10 p.m.

    Utah is #1 in anti-depressant medications in the nation.

    Perhaps we should focus on the REAL problems of our society,
    and stop making up these ridiculous strawman veiled theocratic Word of Wisdom laws.

  • George Bronx, NY
    Feb. 27, 2013 3:25 p.m.

    @brave sir robin
    you are right, its a small group of very vocal people that control what our state government does. Go watch the eagle forum people literally give the congressman the thumbs up or down on bills. Any congressman that wants to keep their seat does what every they tell them. it is embarrassing to watch.

  • moderateinmagna MAGNA, UT
    Feb. 27, 2013 3:41 p.m.

    The lawmakers in this state are a bunch of prudes ,they are 30 years behind times,i think it,s high time that they wake up and smell the coffee,[oops i said a bad word in this state coffee] i know of no teenagers anywhere seeing some mix a drink is going to start them drinking that thought is just ridiculous.

  • ipr Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 27, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    I don't see much logic in these comments, just a lot of dislike of the LDS church. Sad.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Feb. 27, 2013 8:15 p.m.

    I am LDS and I think the Zion Curtain is ridiculous. Children will chose to drink for many reasons and watching a drink being poured is not one of those reasons.

    Hiding the issue and making alcohol exotic and forbidden fruit will result in a person being attracted to drinking because they have no one hovering over them telling them not to instead of the practiced agency to chose for themselves.

  • ParkCityAggie Park City, Ut
    Feb. 28, 2013 12:00 a.m.

    I doubt the Zion Curtain ever had a true practical purpose, it was silly to begin with, and it was just one more pull of the leash to let us all know who's really in charge here. It was simply punitive. It was passed under the guise of shielding young eyes away from those evil liquor bottles, we all know most kids see far worse things many times a day. If it really offends someone to see an adult beverage being mixed, might I suggest taking your business elsewhere, perhaps some place that shares your values and beliefs to begin with? Yes most restaurants sell booze... perhaps that should be your first clue that values we all mostly share is that of making money! And really, why stymie business like that? If Utah as a state is so pro-business as our fearless lawmakers claim, then whey are they always trying to get government to be a nanny and our moral compass who would thwart the free market? If restaurants are lining up for licenses to sell adult beverages, maybe its time to concede that we should just let the adults be adults.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Feb. 28, 2013 4:41 a.m.

    Re: "I don't think the restaurant industry wants to see that."

    And that's that.

    Since way too many members of the legislature are bought and paid for by the "hospitality" industry, and since that industry has now handed down its marching orders, we now know where this bill is headed.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    Feb. 28, 2013 6:23 a.m.

    Who really cares? It is something that never should have been implemented. We have a national economy that is in a tailspin borrowing 40 percent of what it spends and we spend time on this nonsense.

  • Willybee71 GARDEN CITY, NY
    Feb. 28, 2013 6:41 a.m.

    Well, I guess no one else will ask the questions, so I will. I wondered why this law, clouded in distracting moral logic debates, exists. How many Restaurants open before 2009 felt so much competition from new ones that they had to find an way to protect their business with a "Grand-fathered" physical layout advantage ?? How many dining establishments , that have to comply, opened since 2009 ??
    Which group of Legislators gets better service at which Restaurants ???

  • suzyk#1 Mount Pleasant, UT
    Feb. 28, 2013 7:58 a.m.

    I've never understood why we have to have alcohol for drinking in the first place. It brings no good to our lives. More people are angry, are beaten, are killed because of the abuse of alcohol. It serves no positive purpose. I know they use it in some cooking establishments but that should be where it ends. My niece is an alcoholic (started drinking when she was 15) has had DUI's, not able to drive for a time and yet continues to drink with friends. It's an excuse to me for drinkers; they become mean, nasty, irrrespondible in their actions and many end up killing friends, family....drinking causes out-of-control behavior and someone always gets hurt. What's the good with that?

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Feb. 28, 2013 8:34 a.m.

    @suzyk#1

    "I've never understood why we have to have alcohol for drinking in the first place. It brings no good to our lives. More people are angry, are beaten, are killed because of the abuse of alcohol. It serves no positive purpose. I know they use it in some cooking establishments but that should be where it ends. My niece is an alcoholic (started drinking when she was 15) has had DUI's, not able to drive for a time and yet continues to drink with friends. It's an excuse to me for drinkers; they become mean, nasty, irrrespondible in their actions and many end up killing friends, family....drinking causes out-of-control behavior and someone always gets hurt. What's the good with that?"

    I go out once per week and have 3 drinks. Never had a problem. Your niece has a problem ... doesn't mean the rest of us can't handle it responsibly. Don't stereotype the mass based on your beliefs and one unfortunate experience.

  • MurrayMike Murray, UT
    Feb. 28, 2013 9:23 a.m.

    I'm a card carrying (you know what i mean) member of the LDS church. I am also a businessman, although not in the restaurant business. As a businessman, I understand the frustration these owners have, restrictions such as these can have dire effects. Being more tolerant of others and their practices is something all LDS members can improve in, (me included). If we want Utah to grow this may help by allowing owners of restaurants more freedom to operate their business as they choose, remember it is a free country.

  • Sasha Pachev Provo, UT
    Feb. 28, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    I've seen enough alcohol in the Soviet Union and I stay away as far away from it as I can. If a restaurant serves alcohol at all this is a reason good enough for me to not go there. Guys, if you want America to be like the Soviet Union, keep pouring the booze!

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    Feb. 28, 2013 10:38 a.m.

    @Sasha Pachev

    "I've seen enough alcohol in the Soviet Union and I stay away as far away from it as I can. If a restaurant serves alcohol at all this is a reason good enough for me to not go there. Guys, if you want America to be like the Soviet Union, keep pouring the booze!"

    Hah! You will avoid a restaurant if it serves alcohol? Wow .... just wow.

    Pouring booze has 0% chance of making the USA like the Soviet Union.

  • perspicacious Salt lake city, Utah
    Feb. 28, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    Valentine and others who came up with the stupid Zion wall can now be heroes by removing the requirement for mixed drinks and require it be used for prep of fatty unhealthy fried foods!

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 28, 2013 11:18 a.m.

    Utah was one of the last states to get meaningful anti-smoking legislation largely because of religious paranoia
    It is interesting that religion is once again being used to bash any attempt to discourage drinking – or even underage drinking
    Yet setting all religion aside – discouraging alcohol use is good public health policy
    Alcohol actually has a higher social and monetary cost than tobacco and there are NO health benefits (even wine benefits can be received without the alcohol)
    When New York City posts warnings for pregnant women on liquor bottles - they are considered liberal and progressive; When Utah discourages alcohol they are called bigots - how convenient for the real bigots.
    Those who whine about religious people “forcing their lifestyle onto me” seldom consider how they force their lifestyle onto others – after all, they seem to know that only religious freaks or reformed alcoholics want to discourage its use
    Perhaps at some point drinking alcohol will become a social stigma (just like smoking), the “tolerant people” will be annoyed by the loud drinker at the party just as much as they are the smoker at the next table, and the tide will turn.

  • kargirl Sacramento, CA
    Feb. 28, 2013 1:06 p.m.

    JohnJacob, you hit the nail on the head. This mysterious thing happening behind the curtain and appearing in a fancy glass at someone's meal has to be more appealing than seeing someone do what is virtually not much different than putting cherry flavoring in a soda. Wow...but what if both were hidden...each would be more attractive. And if neither were hidden, people would order according to taste. And maybe fewer would order the alcohol since there's so much less fuss made over it. Who knows? I can tell you this--if the space were larger for the lack of Zion's curtain laws, maybe these restaurants involved could add tables, a job or two or more, improve their bottom line, and thus the state economy. Anyone ever think of that?

  • kargirl Sacramento, CA
    Feb. 28, 2013 1:14 p.m.

    Counter Intelligence, I hate to break your heart, but we're not crazy about loud drinkers and partiers here in the Golden State, either. Or smokers, although I think some go a bit too far trying to tell others what to do where they live...but there's always someone trying to do that anywhere you go, isn't there? But no way can see there being laws against making restaurant drinks in public, and I wouldn't vote for it. I voted for liquor by the drink in VA in the sixties, too, when all our tax dollars went to places that served alcohol at restaurants, since ours didn't. You know, free will is just that, and while we cannot run around forcing moderation on folks, we cannot force our own standards or religious principles on them, either. The LDS folks among us need to remember, that was a big part of the war in Heaven.

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    Feb. 28, 2013 6:34 p.m.

    @Sasha Pachev,

    I've also lived in the former USSR, and I'm sure the experience gave me similar views on the effects of rampant drunkenness. But the US has been drinking alcohol quite liberally for its entire history and so far we're nowhere close to that level. I've been in the presence of alcohol many times without ever feeling a need to sample it myself.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    March 1, 2013 9:00 a.m.

    Kargirl I hate to break your heart, but considering that San Francisco bans soda in schools and West Hollywood won't allow you to smoke in your own apartment (because it might go through the vent); I am not inclined to accept guilt trips from Cal girls. I am disinclined to accept lectures on "free will"; when separating liquor in a restaurant does not stop anyone from getting a drink; it simply makes it less a part of the experience; which is good public health policy. The action is far less onerous than banning cigarette advertisements or forcing tobacco companies to pay for anti-smoking efforts; despite the fact than cigarettes remain legal and for sale (behind the counter). The social costs of alcohol exceed tobacco.

    I am not LDS and don't really know much about "the war in heaven"; I am more concerned about religious paranoia here and now. So thank you for proving my point by making this a religious issue instead of a public health issue (I assume you are not a complete hypocrite and you wrote to the New York Times complaining about liberal WASP's forcing you to buy your soda in smaller quantities).

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    March 1, 2013 9:08 a.m.

    George
    “ its a small group of very vocal people that control what our state government does.”

    Yes; such as you trying to ban reparative therapy for youth; then complaining you are the victim when people push back against your blatant efforts at censorship.

    (There isn’t even any research regarding reparative therapy for youth – it was all done with adults and it did not recommend censorship – despite being horribly biased. At least alcohol has plenty of research supporting limiting its use – particularly for youth)

    The hypocrisy is spectacular.

    @Brave Sir Robin: see my comment to Kargirl.

  • joseywales Park City, UT
    March 3, 2013 1:32 p.m.

    suzyk1- I'm sorry for the way you think about this. It's tragic that your niece has a problem. However, the vast majority of people who drink, do so responsibly. I've had an alcoholic in my family as well. But the rest of our family that drinks, has never had a problem, and honestly other than perhaps college, hasn't even been drunk. Most of us have a glass of wine with dinner, or a beer after work. Not everyone who drinks, does so to the extremes that are portrayed in the media. Most of the out of control MTV style of drinking comes with immaturity, or having not been around responsible drinkers in their life. I've seen many young drinkers come from families who don't drink, and they are sometimes like kids in a candy store. Having never been taught to drink responsibly, they just become binge drinkers. If you are going to teach abstinence first, the maybe it's a good idea to also teach moderation. In the end, having someone a young person looks up to be honest with them, may make the difference in how they go about all choices.