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Following Tom Holmoe comments on Big 12, a look at the issues keeping BYU out

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  • LEDSFW Las Vegas, NV
    Feb. 21, 2013 11:08 a.m.

    Any article that fails to cover the initial and most fundamental reason BYU was not offered is incomplete. The BIG-XII BYLAWS require five sport participation aside from football. There is no caveat around that until or unless the Bylaws are amended. Rumors circulating two years ago that BYU was a candidate for football only could have been quickly dispelled by local media had they simply read the bylaws and reported on them.

    BYU would have to have abandoned the WCC immediately in order to accept BIG-XII membership back then. To BYU's honor and credit it was not going to do that. Furthermore, WCC membership seems to fit BYU's mission statement better than secular school dominated conferences. Independence works well for BYU football. Metaphorically, just as soon as the fans stop envying ROME they may grow to love the home God gave them in Jerusalem.

  • LEDSFW Las Vegas, NV
    Feb. 21, 2013 11:20 a.m.

    Really Chris? Then why did ESPN offer BYU a contract and why were BYU's ratings extremely good. Why is ESPN so pleased with its relationship with BYU. One of the most immature things I read is when some fan writes Nobody or everybody. Well, perhaps the fan is just thinking a little larger about their importance than the actual body of followers and networks that are happy to have BYU.

  • LEDSFW Las Vegas, NV
    Feb. 21, 2013 11:27 a.m.

    By the was Chris, Texas started the LHN and soon discovered there wasn't much draw or desire for it outside Texas. It hasn't done well. Oklahoma discovered that without the 26 million people in Texas, nobody nwanted the small markets of Oklahoma. The PAC-12 wasn't interested. David Boren was humbled. What U of nU fans have always had difficulty accepting is that that their university and athletic programs are still wanna=be programs, even inside the PAC-12. They have the third smallest stadium, a basketball venue that sits empty and a conference affiliation with a BCS league that the leagues east of the Rockies completely ignore or disrespect as much as the WAC and MWC. Also UTAH could NEVER have gone Independent, something BYU could and did do. Enjoy ROME. BYU didn't need that any more than Notre Dame does. Get over yourselves, we UCLA fans think the league made a huge mistake. BYU would have been fare better for the league.

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    Feb. 21, 2013 11:38 a.m.

    Chris B....why do you do this to yourself...let it go...

    Anyway, I am proud of Tom for representing BYU in the manner in which its fans should do so as well, which is to represent the Faith it is centered on. I would much rather see BYU do the right thing than make an exception to do something that is not accepted elsewhere. I've heard that God is constant in all things...

  • So. Cal Reader San Diego, CA
    Feb. 21, 2013 11:40 a.m.

    So, why are all the insightful sports articles coming from the DN written by "guest" columnists? Good work by Teeples. Liked the article, but also had a good laugh. So, Holmoe "forayed into the Twittersphere (@TomHolmoe), he found it can be an exercise in persistent tongue-biting." And he expected otherwise? Serious question for other Cougs fans: If you have confidence in what Holmoe says, what is that based on? I like my Cougs but have long ago fallen off the Holmoe/Mendenhall bandwagon.

  • Christy B Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 21, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    Please excuse my little sister; she's throwing another one of her BYU-envy tantrums.

    BYU would obviously love to be a member of the Big 12, and that may happen someday, but there's no reason why BYU can't be very successful as an Independent. After a couple of years of growing pains, Holmoe has delivered the type of schedule he promised when BYU announced its Independence in the fall of 2010.

    I don't believe BYU's television "demands" were nearly as unreasonable as some have characterized them to be. With a little more give and take, whatever concerns the Big 12 might have had could be worked out to the mutual benefit of both parties.

    BYU has a lot to offer the Big 12 - high academics, a national fan base, and a very good overall athletic program - and the Big 12 would be wise to reconsider adding the Intermountain television market that they lost when Colorado bolted for the PAC 12 back to the Big 12 footprint.

  • Dutchman Murray, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    The Big 12 is going to raid the ACC and get Florida State and/or Clemson before they ever look at BYU. End of story. To covet is also a sin. Stop coveting something that is not going to happen.

  • SportsChemistry ENGLEWOOD, CO
    Feb. 21, 2013 12:11 p.m.

    Why dilute their product? What have the recent expansion teams of the Big XII and PCA-12 brought to the table? Not much...

    Football 2012
    West Virginia 7-6
    TCU 7-6
    Utah 5-7
    Colorado 1-11

    Basketball 2013 (as of 2/21)
    West Virginia 13-13
    TCU 10-16
    Utah 11-14
    Colorado 17-8

    In both sports, only one team (Colorado in Basketball) has a winning conference record (7-6)

    Like Bronco has stated in the past, no one will come calling until BYU makes it to at least one (but more likely two) BCS bowls. Holmoe has BYU in the best position to succeed, regardless of the appeal of a big conference. And as we see with those that came before, sometimes it better to be the head of an ant than the tail of an elephant.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 12:14 p.m.

    @ LEDSFW

    It's weird you would lecture Chris B about speaking in absolutes, and then go on to speak for every single UCLA fan... I personally think Utah and BYU should have been invited instead of CU, but that's not my decision to make.

    Also, make no mistake that if Utah wanted to they could go independent. Utah St. did it about a decade ago and Idaho and New Mexico St. are doing it right now. It's something virtually every team can do, but it's not something they necessarily want to do because of the luxury and stability provided by conf. affiliation.

    As for the article, I think a better question for Holmoe would be, 'Is BYU just sitting and waiting for the BIG-12 to call or is BYU actively pursuing an invitation?' and 'If so, what is being done to secure a spot in the BIG XII?'

  • sls Columbia, MO
    Feb. 21, 2013 12:32 p.m.

    @Sports Chemistry

    You left out the SEC. Texas A&M and Missouri both left the Big 12 for supposedly greener pastures, but the green has turned out to be nothing more than greenbacks. The old rivalries are gone, the success rate is down, the stupid travel logistics and everything else point to a poor decision on the part of the big wigs.

    Those who claim that it is better are hate mongering rather than being realistic.

    BYU is better off as an independent.

  • Sports Are Great Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 12:32 p.m.

    @Two for Flinching - Agreed. Tom Holmoe should answer whether he is just praying the Big 12 will come calling or whether he is trying to get an invite. Good comment. From a byu fan.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Feb. 21, 2013 12:38 p.m.

    LOL!

    CJ Miles recently said "Twitter is the Devil." I can't disagree.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 12:43 p.m.

    Christy B

    Good points. There's no need to panic. If the Big 12 comes calling, fine; if not, BYU can still be very successful as an Independent.

    Dutchman

    Why are Utah fans so obsessed with BYU joining a conference or not? Are U so insecure that U couldn't handle BYU stealing your big boy conference affiliation thunder?

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 1:07 p.m.

    @Two for Flinching

    Sure any team can go Independent.
    Even Utah.
    But, the Suits at any Major Network, would "never" entertain giving Utah, the same TV deal it gave BYU.

    Outside of the Big Boys, of which Utah is not one, only BYU and Notre Dame could cut their own Independent TV deals.

    Utah is finding out that they have no value to the Networks, which is why they are rarely chosen for a National game.

    BYU knew 15 years ago when it created BYU-TV and cut it's first deal with Dish Network, that they would eventually have to Go it Alone.

    Fortunately, they had a bonified Legacy and National Brand, so that when they decided to Go it Alone, within 30 days, they had their own Multi-Million dollar TV deal, with the Biggest Name in Sports.

    And this drove the Ute fans crazy.

    BYU already had in place a new 100 million dollar Broadcast facility, which according to Trevor Mattich, rivals ESPN's at Bristol, Conn.

    No, BYU is peculiar.
    And they have taken all the steps to succeed at the highest levels.
    They don't need others Coat-Tails to survive.

    Unlike the Posing Wannabee Commuter School.

  • Stgeorgebyu St. Georg, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 1:14 p.m.

    Chris B; The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.
    Your BYU-envy tantrums again make you look small. I am glad you love your BCS membership, it has really served you well so far...somehow? Oh yea, it got you a NC assistant coach who has never succeeded with his own players he recruited and has always left with a team that is undisciplined and unsuccessful. He also could barley say "we" when talking about working at the U. I think he is placing himself in a place he can get a job if they fire Whitt after another sub 500 season. So have at him, good luck. But I'm guessing that will get you about as far as your BCS membership has, sitting on the couch eating your bon-bons,watching the Y play in the post season.

  • Scott Farcus Beaver, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 1:34 p.m.

    Tom can Tweet?

    That's his biggest accomplishment as AD.

  • hubbardesquire Alabaster, Alabama
    Feb. 21, 2013 1:57 p.m.

    Because of BYU's TV contract with ESPN and its national following, I believe that the SEC would love to have BYU, if BYU was interested. But, BYU might think that such a move would put too much pressure on them to win, particularly in football and basketball. These are two sports that BYU would have a hard time competing with the other schools in a high-pressure league like the SEC, maybe according to BYU's viewpoint.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 3:06 p.m.

    @Chris B "So byu would turn down a Big 12 invite?"

    According to you, Chris, they already have: Chris B. 10:47 AM "I dont believe Holmoe is being honest with you guys. I actually believe byu did have a tentative offer".

    And since we all know that you are the resident expert on all things BYU, I think you just answered your question.

    Go Cougars!

  • aceroinox Farmington, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 3:11 p.m.

    I couldn't be more content with independence. Who could be unhappy with BYU's 2013 football schedule: Texas, Utah, Georgia Tech and Boise State at home, with away games at Notre Dame, Nevada, Virginia, Utah State and Wisconsin. Yes, you do have two gimme games at Middle Tennessee State and Idaho State, but in spite of everyone's dire predictions about only being able to schedule patsies in November Holmoe has scored Wisconsin and the Fighting Irish, not a bad prep for bowl-time! If BYU plays well with this schedule, it has as good a chance at a BCS bowl as anyone. Hopefully the team is up to the challenge!

    Plus I can't imagine anyone being unhappy with the WCC. It is an awesome conference, not only for basketball, but has teams in other sports that are perennial national contenders as well.

    I have no inside track on BYU's strategy sessions, but I don't detect any displeasure with our current opportunity. It's looking pretty good from where I sit. If a conference cares to extend an invitation, there is no need to compromise. We're not only surviving, but thriving right where we're at!

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 3:32 p.m.

    Last years Bowl Games:

    Utah was OUT;
    BYU was IN.

    Rumors are that Utah went bowling at Orchard Lanes.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Feb. 21, 2013 3:46 p.m.

    Enough talking. BYU needs FIRST to win one or two (better) BCS bowl games. Then and only then should they start clamoring for and courting a BCS conference. This is waaaaaayyyyyy overdue. It's so much easier to get into the top tier when you've earned the right. We have a much more national following and a longer football legacy than Utah or Boise St., just lacking that notch in our belts.

    As for Utah and what the BCS membership has done for them...name ONE thing, please. I keep hearing about how great it is but all I see is Utah is in the bottom of the conference both years (after expecting to be Rose Bowl contenders).

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Feb. 21, 2013 3:49 p.m.

    LEDSFW sad:

    "Really Chris? Then why did ESPN offer BYU a contract and why were BYU's ratings extremely good. Why is ESPN so pleased with its relationship with BYU. One of the most immature things I read is when some fan writes Nobody or everybody. Well, perhaps the fan is just thinking a little larger about their importance than the actual body of followers and networks that are happy to have BYU."

    Care to back up your claim about the ESPN ratings? Its not what you think or hope for. And yes ESPN is going to say they are pleased with the BYU contract. It's their money on the line. Practically any company in the same boat will say that to save face. ESPN paid for a 7-5 record, nothing else. Is that a good investment?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 21, 2013 3:51 p.m.

    @LEDSFW
    Also UTAH could NEVER have gone Independent, something BYU could and did do.

    ------------

    Why not? New Mexico State and Idaho State did.

    But then again TCU and Utah were invited to a real conference while BYU continues the 40+ year of "discussions".

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Feb. 21, 2013 3:59 p.m.

    toosmartforyou said:

    "Last years Bowl Games:

    Utah was OUT;
    BYU was IN.

    Rumors are that Utah went bowling at Orchard Lanes."

    Rumors are that USU had a higher bowl rating than BYU. Wait that is true!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 4:31 p.m.

    @Chrissy B.

    You already said that they did..
    quote:
    "I actually believe byu did have a tentative offer..

    You'll never understand why BYU can't give on the Sunday play issue.
    And I don't think they (BYU) have a desire to ever go backwards on exposure and what having their own Network avails to them.
    Anyone seen TCU lately?

    BYU and Utah were lost in the abyss for nearly a decade regarding exposure. Utah and BYU could not even show a replay of their own games, for one year, under the Thompson/CBS regime. CBS owns the Mountain West until 2020, with each team only receiving abt. 2 million per year. BYU can make that much with 2 ESPN games or a neutral site game.

    BYU also likes the WCC for their other sports, like minded institutions and the travel is ideal. And their(WCC)top B-ball program is ranked 3rd in the Nation this week.

    Now don't you fret one more moment about what BYU is doing, just see if your Utes can ever compete for a Conference Championship, in any sport.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Feb. 21, 2013 4:46 p.m.

    upinthenight

    "Care to back up your claim about the ESPN ratings? Its not what you think or hope for. And yes ESPN is going to say they are pleased with the BYU contract."

    So we're supposed to believe a BYU-hating troll more than ESPN executives and reporters about ESPN's "true feelings" about ESPN's partnership with BYU?

    ---------

    Joe Schad, ESPN's national college football reporter:

    "I think BYU is certainly a national brand, in the same ilk as Notre Dame," said Schad, who provided color commentary on ESPN radio during the Cougars' recent appearance in the Poinsettia Bowl. "They have a national recruiting base and a national following. Obviously, I'm not a TV executive, but from what I have been told, ESPN is pleased with its relationship with BYU and the scheduling opportunities that it has presented for the network. BYU is a VERY ATTRACTIVE BRAND from a television perspective. My company desired BYU as a broadcast partner. BYU is attractive to our television audience and to our executives."

    Gotta laugh at the arrogance of our little brothers on the hill who think they know more than anybody else.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 4:54 p.m.

    @ Night Owl

    No problem with USU's success. Congratulations to them.

    Read betweent the lines, or even read the lines, and you'll see:
    Big problem with Utah's PAC12 snobbery by one of their fans who always posts first on BYU articles and bashes them while the team he supports continually disappoints their fans.

    (Do you think Utah will win 10 total PAC12 conference games in 3 years, or will it take them 4 seasons?)

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    Why does Chris B get away with calling Tom Holmoe a liar and the DesNews allows his post? What gives here, anyway?

  • Obama10 SYRACUSE, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 5:05 p.m.

    @twoforflinching Using Utah State, Idaho, and New Mexico State as examples of Universities going independent is a poor example. Utah State is still digging out of the hole going independent caused them. They had a great year last year after many horrible years. Idaho and New Mexico State are going independent because their conference has vanished and been morphed into the MWC. ONLY Notre Dame would ever CHOOSE to go independent. Even BYU was trying to make the best out of a bad situation, which after some growing pains, have accomplished. If it was so easy, all of the big schools i.e. Texas, Alabama, USC would do it. Finally on the BIG 12, at their conference meetings last week they announced they were happy with 10 teams because they didn't have to share the pot of money with as many teams. It will be hard for BYU to join strictly on money concerns alone.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 5:41 p.m.

    These posts are fun to read. Some BYU fans are content with independence but the premise of this article pertains to BYU being called up to the big leagues. That doesn't sound like peace, joy, and contentment with independence to me. The article also conveys the notion that Holmoe doesn't have a strategy. Here's what Holmoe said last August...

    "I understand how disappointed people were the they [Utah] got in the Pac-12 and we're not."

    That doesn't sound like contentment either. Further, it's interesting that Holmoe uses Utah as BYU's measuring stick rather than simply saying...we're disappointed that BYU is not in a BCS conference.

    So, in reference to a post above, who is the head and who is the tail of the ant?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 5:49 p.m.

    The BIG 12 never was an option for the Y and I suspect never will be. TCU got the invite to BIG12 simply because they won a BCS bowl game and found themselves in the top 10 a bunch of times in the past few years. Utah followed the same pattern into the PAC12. BYU has never been to a BCS bowl and most likely never will. I really think the Y is off the radar for any big conferences especially with the terrible record the Y has had in football the past 2 years. BYU seems to be settling into a new lower lever and that seems to be just fine for Holmoe and most fans.

  • Ironhide Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 6:00 p.m.

    .twoforflinching

    interesting how you know utah could go independent better than Dr. Hill, who by the way said exactly the opposite after BYU went independent. He said there is no way utah could go independent. But continue speaking for the athletic director at your school, it does wonders for your credibility.

  • NevadaCoug Overton, NV
    Feb. 21, 2013 6:23 p.m.

    "Rumors are that USU had a higher bowl rating than BYU. Wait that is true!"

    USU also played on a weekend. Whereas BYU's bowl was played on a Thursday night. Yeah, weekend bowl got higher ratings. Duh.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 6:48 p.m.

    @ Obama10

    Florida St., Syracuse, Rutgers, VT, WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, and many others were all independent from the late 70's, to the early 90's. The reason they chose to join a conf, and the reason 97% of FBS college football teams choose to stay in a conference is because the benefits of that membership far outweigh those of going independent.

    I know BYU is a unique case, and being independent is probably a better choice than the MWC. But I think the Big XII is a far better option than staying independent. IMO, BYU should be fighting tooth and nail to get in. It would be a huge step forward for the entire athletic department, and CFB in general in this state.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Feb. 21, 2013 7:31 p.m.

    NevadaCoug
    Overton, NV
    "Rumors are that USU had a higher bowl rating than BYU. Wait that is true!"

    USU also played on a weekend. Whereas BYU's bowl was played on a Thursday night. Yeah, weekend bowl got higher ratings. Duh.

    _________________

    Right it was on a weekend, and BYU got stuck with its bowl.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Feb. 21, 2013 7:35 p.m.

    Just the FAX
    Olympus Cove, Utah
    upinthenight

    So we're supposed to believe a BYU-hating troll more than ESPN executives and reporters about ESPN's "true feelings" about ESPN's partnership with BYU?

    ---------

    Joe Schad, ESPN's national college football reporter:

    "I think BYU is certainly a national brand, in the same ilk as Notre Dame," said Schad, who provided color commentary on ESPN radio during the Cougars' recent appearance in the Poinsettia Bowl. "They have a national recruiting base and a national following. Obviously, I'm not a TV executive, but from what I have been told, ESPN is pleased with its relationship with BYU and the scheduling opportunities that it has presented for the network. BYU is a VERY ATTRACTIVE BRAND from a television perspective. My company desired BYU as a broadcast partner. BYU is attractive to our television audience and to our executives."

    Gotta laugh at the arrogance of our little brothers on the hill who think they know more than anybody else.

    ____________

    Yeah! You would think a power conference would make an official invite to BYU with their national brand. Especially after 40+ years LOL!

    Gotta laugh at the wishful thinkers in BYU land.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 7:36 p.m.

    @ Ironhide

    Please tell me you're kidding. Idaho is going independent. Why wouldn't Utah be able to? Utah's endowment is three times larger than Idaho's. Utah has vastly superior athletic facilities across the board, as well as superior athletic teams. Utah is also in a much bigger market. Oh, and Utah also has a tv and radio station on campus. You keep telling yourself Utah couldn't do it though....

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 8:55 p.m.

    BYU's never had a chance, but really really never had a chance after the Big 12 brought in West Virginia. The Big 12 doesn't want to expand, but if they did they'd find a partner/rival for WVU. They will look east, not west.

  • moderateinmagna MAGNA, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 8:55 p.m.

    dear 2fer youn ad has said that utah could never go independent ,so you need to confront him and not other posters,it came straight from c hills mouth 2 years ago when BYU went independent

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 9:31 p.m.

    Idaho is going Independent and they still won't have a TV deal.

    We're talking about teams which can go Independent and then cut exclusive ESPN-BYU type contracts with a Major Network.

    Having an on campus TV studio does not equate with having your own Television Network with distribution in 70 million homes on basic tier and millions more Internationally.

    Utah coud never equal BYU's situation.
    They're content riding others coat-tails and living in obscurity.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 9:56 p.m.

    As a BYU fan I am happy to watch the Cougars almost every day they play. Independence keeps getting better and better in my book.

    I'm watching a great basketball game right now. These WCC teams are a great fit for BYU. Put BYU anywhere and they will compete.

    I just don't get what's so great about being in a big boy conference and losing over 50% of your games. If I were a Ute fan I'd be furious at how this failed Pac10.2 experiment has gone.

    I certainly understand why so many Ute fans get their kicks out of trying to find some joy in BYU's losses, no conference affiliation, a few football victories, etc...

    ...as there is no joy in Uteville and all the Ute losses, no post seasons, dismal conference showings and so forth.

    I love my Cougars and independence.

    Thanks Tom for delivering on your promise. I enjoy it so much.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 10:05 p.m.

    @ Bluto

    Nobody is trying to claim that Utah would have a tv deal like BYU has. The U is not sponsored by a church and as a result does not have a built-in fan base that is spread out across the country. Of course Utah can't equal BYU's situation. BYU can't equal Utah's situation either. The schools are very different, which is why they are in the situations they are currently in.

    The beauty of it all is that Utah doesn't have to equal BYU. Utah got the better deal out of the two teams. If the PAC or Big XII came calling BYU would jump into either league immediately.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 10:15 p.m.

    WAC (USU) paddled my Utes

    Still smarting from the couch potato bowl I see.

    With or without a conference affiliation BYU trumps U on the national stage, on TV, fanbase numbers and so forth. You poor jealous temper tantrum types just humor me to no end.

    Please educate us as to what is so great about losing over 50% of your games in a big boy conference. Is it the money that won't buy one 4 or 5 star recruit over USC, Oregon or Stanford? Is it the empty seats at the HC? Or is it the pride of being associated to something big when U are not?

    After two years and as fickle as Ute fans are I'm surprised you and several others are still here.

    Is it just the glory of one rivalry game per season and dismissing the rest...

    Or is it a diminishing group of wishful thinkers hoping that the Utes will rise again?

    LOL

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 10:30 p.m.

    2fer

    What is exactly "Utah's situation"? After two seasons in the Pac10.2 I'm really curious about this 'situation' you're crowing about.

    I'm dying to know how 'moral victories' and staying home for the holidays makes for a great tradition that fans clamor to see.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 10:48 p.m.

    @ sammyg

    Utah's situation is that they are a member of the Pac-12. That alone opens up amazing possibilities for the University. On top of that Utah has earned a revenue increase that is allowing Utah to invest in, and expand, the athletics department like never before. We all know that the Utes have struggled in the first couple of seasons, but that does not mean Utah is forever doomed in conf. play.

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    Feb. 21, 2013 11:21 p.m.

    Yes, I'll bet nothing quite beats being a bottom feeder in a not so stacked with talent conference. You have 2-3 teams in everywhere but SEC and the rest are just the embryonic sisters of the 'elite'. Just look at the storied history of the far too overhyped bcs championship series... It is very clear that for BYU to be envious Utah would have to be somewhere that not even they would EVER get an invite to... The S E C ! ! ! It is them and then everyone else all vying to be the top of the embryonic chain of overhyped hoopla!

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 21, 2013 11:41 p.m.

    @ Jake2010

    Answer honestly. If the PAC-12 had extended an invitation to BYU would Holmoe have accepted the offer or would he have declined and taken BYU into independence?

    The answer will tell you who landed the better deal.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 22, 2013 1:27 a.m.

    Holmoe says that we never got an invite which may be true, but the AD from TX said at the time that BYU doesn't appear to be too anxious to get an invite to the conference which tells me there is alot more to this than what Holmoe has said. (i.e. the rumor that we wanted to make sure that Oklahoma and Texas weren't going to run off and join the PAC10; the rumor that we wanted replay rights for BYUtv and maybe even home game control in the event that a BYU game wouldn't be picked up by a Network; and finally the rumor that we didn't want the Conference to look at the Athletic Financials to see how much of the Programs were funded by the Church and Tithe Payers).

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    Feb. 22, 2013 1:32 a.m.

    I believe Holmoe was simply a pawn that was caught in the middle and a pawn that wasn't very effective in converting Decision Makers to the thought that we needed to agressively pursue the invite... I also strongly believe that our feeble effort was directed by Lawyers and Members of the Board of Trustees out of SLC who simply don't understand the value of being in the Big 12 (probably U Grads or USU Grads).

    This is not a defense of Holmoe... I think that a strong AD would have been able to convince his side of the table that they needed to do everything except Sunday play in order to get the invite... Holmoe does not have that capability.

  • DC Alexandria, VA
    Feb. 22, 2013 6:13 a.m.

    BYU isn't going to the Big 12. They will go to the B1G. Or maybe the SEC.

  • Mildred in Fillmore Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 22, 2013 10:28 a.m.

    Big 12 doesn't want BYU because they know that BYU would dominate that conference.

  • LEDSFW Las Vegas, NV
    Feb. 22, 2013 11:54 a.m.

    Dutchman:

    You make some assumptions about Florida State and Clemson without considering how the fan bases and trustees of those fine institutions might feel about the Big-12. The fact WVa was denied entrance into the ACC had a lot to do with how FSU and Clemson felt about the lower academic standards at WVa. I think you're mistaken to believe that the Big-12 need only ask and FSU and Clemson would leave the ACC. They have little incentive to do so. The hyperbol over that scenario was started by a few out-of-place media people inside the BIG-12 before they ever considered the strong position those school have within the ACC. There is nothing about a move 1500 miles west that makes sense for them. WVa only accepted Big-12 invitations because it was turned down by the Big-10, SEC and ACC.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    Feb. 22, 2013 12:57 p.m.

    @TwoForFlinching "Utah's situation is that they are a member of the Pac-12. That alone opens up amazing possibilities for the University."

    Kansas, Washington St, Duke, Indiana, Iowa St, Colorado, Minnesota, etc are all members of BCS conferences. Those 'amazing possibilities' haven't really turned out for them, and I most certainly am not envious of any of those teams or their situation.

    Utah is quickly becoming another one of those teams: U have a spot at the "big boys" table, but are stuck in the high chair. In this case, that involves playing in obscurity on the PAC 12 network, losing seasons, and staying home for the bowl season.

    However, Ute fans are happy where they're at and I would say the majority of BYU fans are happy with independence. I certainly am.

    Looking forward to a great 2013 season.

    Go Cougars!

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 22, 2013 4:21 p.m.

    Many don't get it, but I think the majority of BYU fans do. Holmoe is doing the best job any Cougar fan could expect.

    I wish Holmoe would have dropped the ball and scheduled a game the week before the my Utes roll into town next year. That extra week preparing makes it tougher for the red.

    The schedule next year is solid for BYU. They play some lesser foes but not as many. The top heavy opponents are great to have on the schedule and the November line up is way better except Idaho State. The weaker teams except Idaho State (again) are far better than the bottom four the last two years. Nevada and Middle Tennessee State are not gimmes either.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 22, 2013 5:54 p.m.

    @ truecoug1

    You know there are other sports besides football don't you? Many of those schools you mentioned are legitimate contenders in men's basketball. Others are strong at LAX, track and field, or wrestling. The point is, Utah is in the process of growing its athletic profile and will the increased revenue has the opportunity to improve all of its sports, not just football.

    btw a couple of those teams you mentioned have already appeared in, and won BCS bowls. If they can compete why can't Utah?

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    Feb. 22, 2013 7:45 p.m.

    Not gonna stir the pot by answering 'what if' questions. For they are of ZERO relevance. It is nice for conversational fodder, but only good to be chewed on and then spat out. :)

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Feb. 22, 2013 8:10 p.m.

    2fer

    "You know there are other sports besides football don't you?"

    Actually, BYU has known about sports like Track & Field, Golf, Rugby, Cross Country, and Volleyball for decades, but it's nice to know that the kids on the hill have finally discovered them.

    btw, without PAC 12 money, BYU was able to win NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS in every one of the above mentioned sports.

    Thanks for playing.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Feb. 22, 2013 9:01 p.m.

    truecoug1
    Provo, UT
    @TwoForFlinching "Utah's situation is that they are a member of the Pac-12. That alone opens up amazing possibilities for the University."

    Kansas, Washington St, Duke, Indiana, Iowa St, Colorado, Minnesota, etc are all members of BCS conferences. Those 'amazing possibilities' haven't really turned out for them, and I most certainly am not envious of any of those teams or their situation.

    Utah is quickly becoming another one of those teams: U have a spot at the "big boys" table, but are stuck in the high chair. In this case, that involves playing in obscurity on the PAC 12 network, losing seasons, and staying home for the bowl season.
    __________________

    Right! Who would want to be in the situation of Kansas, Duke or Indiana? You know, the elite of college basketball with multiple NCAA basketball championships. The other schools you mentioned have won titles in other sports as well.

    Meanwhile BYU is eating scraps on the floor under the "big boys" table.

    Obscurity = lame ESPN ratings for BYU football. And BYU might as well stayed home from their bowl. Who watched?

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 22, 2013 9:34 p.m.

    @ Jake2010

    You don't have to answer because we all know the answer. BYU would take the PAC-12 offer as soon as it was offered.

    @ Snack PAC

    BYU doesn't need PAC-12 money. We all know the Y is extremely well funded. Like I said, now that Utah has a seat at the 'big boy table', and the advantages that come with it, I hope to see an improvement in the quality of our athletic teams across the board over the next 3-5 years. Also, (just to stir the pot) despite Utah's past disadvantages to BYU, the Utes have 21 national titles while BYU only has 8. (The Y claims 14, but 2 are from the N.I.T and the other four are from non NCAA tournaments)

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    Feb. 22, 2013 10:57 p.m.

    Two For Flinching

    You ask a reasonable question in an honest tone, so here's my best shot. Of course it is unreasonable to assume that just because the drum and feather is down now that it will always be down. Indeed, the basketball team is times better than last year, insert obligatory smack talk here.

    So why isn't it eaqually unreasonable to assume that BYU's position in Independence, and the stock of their football team, won't rise. I beleive it is frightened wishful Ute thinking that BYU's best days are behind us.

    Here's my attempt at some other fair and honest commentary. Of course, if BYU had been offered a seat at the PAC whatever table, they would have jumped too (as long as Sunday play was off the table). Independence is not better than a position in a power conference, but as also stated in recent articles, that isn't too likely. Independence IS a better option than the MWC. Perhaps even better than the deal that Boise got.

    And Independence COULD continue to get even better. If Anae can restore the offense, even the predictability, Independence WILL continue to get better.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 23, 2013 3:36 a.m.

    @ Y Grad / Y Dad

    Well said. I think we can all agree that as of right now, both Utah and BYU, have reached a place where a very special season is possible if either of them manage to win 10 or 11 games in the regular season.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Feb. 23, 2013 5:31 a.m.

    WAC (USU) paddled my Utes

    BYU playing in any bowl > couch potato bowl and potato chips

    It still hurts.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 23, 2013 8:49 a.m.

    2fer

    "We all know the Y is extremely well funded."

    BYU's athletic programs are funded entirely by donations from boosters and revenue generated by ticket sales, television rights, etc.

    There are plenty of schools receiving big boy conference money who have been mired at the bottom of big boy conferences for decades with only brief flashes of brilliance - Duke, Northwestern, Iowa St, Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Washington St. in football are just a few examples.

    Don't assume that big boy money will ever buy U a successful sports program in any sport.

    Utah's "national championships" are a joke as far as the men are concerned; they've never won one.

    10 of them are in the coed sport of Skiing, where Denver and Colorado are virtually the only competition the Utes ever face.

    10 came in Women's Gymnastics.

    1 wasn't even a national championship; it was an NCAA tournament championship won when the NCAA tourney was the little brother of the NIT and the rest of the country was busy fighting a world war and the few teams still playing basketball were composed of freshmen and sophomores.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 23, 2013 8:49 a.m.

    Since when is an NCAA tournament a requirement for winning a National Championship?

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    Feb. 23, 2013 9:31 a.m.

    2fer

    Despite your delusional spin, BYU has dominated U in men's national championships, and in across the board conference championships and national rankings.

    The Directors' Cup is an award given annually by the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics to the colleges and universities in the United States with the most success in collegiate athletics.

    Of the 154 schools ranked in the Director's Cup Standings for the just completed Fall 2012 sports:

    BYU finished #13.

    8 of the 9 WCC schools were ranked.

    11 of the 12 PAC-12 schools were ranked.

    Utah was UNRANKED because the Utes didn't earn a single point in any sport - NOT atypical.

    The Utes are all talk, but no walk when it comes to overall athletic success.

    In your first two years in the PAC 12, you've finished dead last or next to last in almost every men's sport you've competed in. The Red Rocks are the only team on campus that's even competitive in the PAC 12, let alone nationally.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    Feb. 23, 2013 9:52 a.m.

    2fer

    Even when they're not winning championships, BYU still shows they're very competitive in numerous sports every year.

    Evidence of BYU's continued across the board athletic success from the headlines in today's D-News:

    - BYU swimming: men's 200 free relay team sets new meet and school record on day 2

    - BYU swimming: men in first and women in third after day 3 at MPSF meet

    - BYU track: Weirich wins pole vault at MPSF Championships

    - BYU volleyball: No. 2 BYU sweeps No. 14 Pacific at home

    - BYU golf: Blair and Keiley lead Cougars to third place finish at the John Burns Intercollegiate

    - BYU baseball: No. 2 LSU was on the ropes twice Thursday night against BYU’s baseball team, but escaped with a 6-5 victory

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Feb. 23, 2013 10:23 a.m.

    Two For Flinching

    Here's a suggestion:

    Instead of beating your chest about simply being in the PAC 12, why don't U wait until you've actually accomplished something in the PAC 12?

    As much as Utah fan's like to minimize BYU's accomplishments, at least the Cougars managed to crack the Top 25 and win two bowl games in their first two years of Independence.

    That dwarfs what the Utes have accomplished in their first two years in the PAC 12.

    Anybody who tries to spin that finishing unranked or with a losing season is BETTER, is just blowing smoke.

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 23, 2013 10:29 a.m.

    It's too bad the Utes don't have a men's volleyball team; that would be a fun sport for the Utes to compete against the Cougars.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    Feb. 23, 2013 10:49 a.m.

    If Kyle hadn't wasted so much money hiring three offensive coordinators, maybe the Utes could have afforded adding men's volleyball.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 23, 2013 1:35 p.m.

    @ Just the FAX

    All I have said in regards to PAC-12 membership is that it has given Utah a chance to improve all of its athletic teams. And that conf. affiliation that comes with a tv deal like the PAC has is a better choice than not having those luxuries. Do you disagree with any of that?

    If you want to pat yourself on the back for tearing apart Idaho and Idaho St. every season, so be it. But deep down you know that winning with a harder schedule is far more fulfilling. Utah is struggling right now, but if/when the Utes have a break through season it will be very special.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Feb. 23, 2013 2:52 p.m.

    Two For Flinching

    Gotta love the SOS hyperbole smack that U throw out knowing full well that BYU's schedule in 2013 is every bit as hard as Utah's.

    Utah fans keep bragging about their schedule, when the reality is, schedule strength doesn't mean diddly IF U DON'T WIN!

    The Utes haven't beaten a PAC 12 team with a winning record in two years in the conference, and against Top 25 teams last season, BYU did better than U:

    BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams and finished 1-4(20%) with three of BYU's losses coming on the road by a total of TEN points.

    Utah played TWO Top 25 teams and finished 0-2(0%) by a total of TWENTY points.

    Average score vs Top 25 Teams

    BYU - 13-18 minus 5 points
    Utah - 13-24 minus 11 points

    With more "advantages" Utah has been less successful.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 23, 2013 5:40 p.m.

    @ BlueCoug

    If you read the last sentence in my previous post you'll notice that I agree with you that Utah needs to win more conference games.

    The PAC-12 has provided Utah with many great advantages, but it's still too early in the process to see those manifested on the field. Most of the recruits are not getting significant reps yet and Utah is still not getting a full share of the money. It is a process and it will take time.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    Feb. 24, 2013 11:34 a.m.

    @WACPaddingOurSchedule "Right! Who would want to be in the situation of Kansas, Duke or Indiana? You know, the elite of college basketball with multiple NCAA basketball championships. The other schools you mentioned have won titles in other sports as well."

    So has BYU, and that's without BCS conference membership (which doesn't apply to NCAA basketball anyway).

    My point was, BYU has won national titles in most all sports without having had to be in a BCS conference. BYU's basketball program is fantastic, obviously not up to par with Kansas, Duke, or Indiana, but definitely better than Iowa, Texas Tech, Maryland, etc...all members of the major conferences.

    BYU is fine where it's at. The Cougars don't need to be in a "big" conference to be relevant on a national scale. Even in a down year, BYU's basketball team has 20 wins and postseason possibilities to its name.

    It's a great time to be a Cougar. Competitive in all sports without needing big-time conference affiliation to be relevant.

    So no, I'm not envious of any other school and their "big-conference" affiliation. I love my Cougars and where they're at.

    Go Cougars!

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 24, 2013 2:50 p.m.

    @ truecoug1

    41- Iowa
    55- Maryland
    63- BYU

    And Tx. Tech is ranked 50 spots below Utah, so i'm not sure why they were included in your list. Anyway, the point is BYU would be middle of the road at best in any of the major conferences. BYU basketball may not be as fantastic as you think.

    "BYU has won national titles in most all sports"

    That is incorrect as well. BYU sponsors 21 varsity sports and has national titles in 6 of them.

    I agree with you that BYU has been very successful despite not being included in a BCS conf. BYU still has many advantages of BCS teams, like a nationwide fan base and, most importantly, money.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    Feb. 24, 2013 5:17 p.m.

    @TwoForFlinching

    I wasn't referring to Iowa, Maryland, or Texas Tech of this year. I've already mentioned that BYU is in a down year in basketball this season. My point was that on average, BYU's basketball program since Dave Rose took over has been very competitive, more competitive than a lot of teams from the "big name" conferences.

    Just like BYU's football team isn't in the same class as Alabama, LSU, or other perennial powerhouse football teams, but they're more competitive and relevant than a vast majority of members of the BCS conferences.

    My overall point was, and still is, that BYU isn't envious of any school like Utah, Maryland, Iowa, Colorado, Washington St. etc, since BYU is doing just fine without being in a "major" conference. I personally love independence for BYU and I hope it continues down the line.

    Go Cougars!

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Feb. 25, 2013 9:09 a.m.

    "Well said. I think we can all agree that as of right now, both Utah and BYU, have reached a place where a very special season is possible if either of them manage to win 10 or 11 games in the regular season."

    BYU can go 12-0 and they're playing in the Poinsettia Bowl. This new playoff is simply lipstick on a pig. The Big 10, Pac 12, Big 12, and SEC champion will play in it even if that champion is 7-5...

  • Thefullnancy SOUTH JORDAN, UT
    Feb. 25, 2013 2:31 p.m.

    The end is definitely near. Chris B. made a positive comment regarding BYU and you can now purchase beer on Sunday in Orem.