Any article that fails to cover the initial and most fundamental reason BYU was
not offered is incomplete. The BIG-XII BYLAWS require five sport participation
aside from football. There is no caveat around that until or unless the Bylaws
are amended. Rumors circulating two years ago that BYU was a candidate for
football only could have been quickly dispelled by local media had they simply
read the bylaws and reported on them. BYU would have to have
abandoned the WCC immediately in order to accept BIG-XII membership back then.
To BYU's honor and credit it was not going to do that. Furthermore, WCC
membership seems to fit BYU's mission statement better than secular school
dominated conferences. Independence works well for BYU football. Metaphorically,
just as soon as the fans stop envying ROME they may grow to love the home God
gave them in Jerusalem.
Really Chris? Then why did ESPN offer BYU a contract and why were BYU's
ratings extremely good. Why is ESPN so pleased with its relationship with BYU.
One of the most immature things I read is when some fan writes Nobody or
everybody. Well, perhaps the fan is just thinking a little larger about their
importance than the actual body of followers and networks that are happy to have
By the was Chris, Texas started the LHN and soon discovered there wasn't
much draw or desire for it outside Texas. It hasn't done well. Oklahoma
discovered that without the 26 million people in Texas, nobody nwanted the small
markets of Oklahoma. The PAC-12 wasn't interested. David Boren was humbled.
What U of nU fans have always had difficulty accepting is that that their
university and athletic programs are still wanna=be programs, even inside the
PAC-12. They have the third smallest stadium, a basketball venue that sits
empty and a conference affiliation with a BCS league that the leagues east of
the Rockies completely ignore or disrespect as much as the WAC and MWC. Also
UTAH could NEVER have gone Independent, something BYU could and did do. Enjoy
ROME. BYU didn't need that any more than Notre Dame does. Get over
yourselves, we UCLA fans think the league made a huge mistake. BYU would have
been fare better for the league.
Chris B....why do you do this to yourself...let it go...Anyway, I am
proud of Tom for representing BYU in the manner in which its fans should do so
as well, which is to represent the Faith it is centered on. I would much rather
see BYU do the right thing than make an exception to do something that is not
accepted elsewhere. I've heard that God is constant in all things...
So, why are all the insightful sports articles coming from the DN written by
"guest" columnists? Good work by Teeples. Liked the article, but also
had a good laugh. So, Holmoe "forayed into the Twittersphere (@TomHolmoe),
he found it can be an exercise in persistent tongue-biting." And he expected
otherwise? Serious question for other Cougs fans: If you have confidence in what
Holmoe says, what is that based on? I like my Cougs but have long ago fallen off
the Holmoe/Mendenhall bandwagon.
Please excuse my little sister; she's throwing another one of her BYU-envy
tantrums.BYU would obviously love to be a member of the Big 12, and
that may happen someday, but there's no reason why BYU can't be very
successful as an Independent. After a couple of years of growing pains, Holmoe
has delivered the type of schedule he promised when BYU announced its
Independence in the fall of 2010.I don't believe BYU's
television "demands" were nearly as unreasonable as some have
characterized them to be. With a little more give and take, whatever concerns
the Big 12 might have had could be worked out to the mutual benefit of both
parties.BYU has a lot to offer the Big 12 - high academics, a
national fan base, and a very good overall athletic program - and the Big 12
would be wise to reconsider adding the Intermountain television market that they
lost when Colorado bolted for the PAC 12 back to the Big 12 footprint.
The Big 12 is going to raid the ACC and get Florida State and/or Clemson before
they ever look at BYU. End of story. To covet is also a sin. Stop coveting
something that is not going to happen.
Why dilute their product? What have the recent expansion teams of the Big XII
and PCA-12 brought to the table? Not much...Football 2012West
Virginia 7-6TCU 7-6Utah 5-7Colorado 1-11Basketball
2013 (as of 2/21)West Virginia 13-13TCU 10-16Utah 11-14Colorado 17-8In both sports, only one team (Colorado in
Basketball) has a winning conference record (7-6)Like Bronco has
stated in the past, no one will come calling until BYU makes it to at least one
(but more likely two) BCS bowls. Holmoe has BYU in the best position to succeed,
regardless of the appeal of a big conference. And as we see with those that came
before, sometimes it better to be the head of an ant than the tail of an
@ LEDSFWIt's weird you would lecture Chris B about speaking in
absolutes, and then go on to speak for every single UCLA fan... I personally
think Utah and BYU should have been invited instead of CU, but that's not
my decision to make.Also, make no mistake that if Utah wanted to
they could go independent. Utah St. did it about a decade ago and Idaho and New
Mexico St. are doing it right now. It's something virtually every team can
do, but it's not something they necessarily want to do because of the
luxury and stability provided by conf. affiliation.As for the
article, I think a better question for Holmoe would be, 'Is BYU just
sitting and waiting for the BIG-12 to call or is BYU actively pursuing an
invitation?' and 'If so, what is being done to secure a spot in the
@Sports ChemistryYou left out the SEC. Texas A&M and Missouri
both left the Big 12 for supposedly greener pastures, but the green has turned
out to be nothing more than greenbacks. The old rivalries are gone, the success
rate is down, the stupid travel logistics and everything else point to a poor
decision on the part of the big wigs.Those who claim that it is
better are hate mongering rather than being realistic.BYU is better
off as an independent.
@Two for Flinching - Agreed. Tom Holmoe should answer whether he is just
praying the Big 12 will come calling or whether he is trying to get an invite.
Good comment. From a byu fan.
LOL!CJ Miles recently said "Twitter is the Devil." I
Christy BGood points. There's no need to panic. If the Big 12
comes calling, fine; if not, BYU can still be very successful as an
Independent.DutchmanWhy are Utah fans so obsessed with
BYU joining a conference or not? Are U so insecure that U couldn't handle
BYU stealing your big boy conference affiliation thunder?
@Two for FlinchingSure any team can go Independent.Even Utah.
But, the Suits at any Major Network, would "never" entertain
giving Utah, the same TV deal it gave BYU.Outside of the Big Boys,
of which Utah is not one, only BYU and Notre Dame could cut their own
Independent TV deals.Utah is finding out that they have no value to
the Networks, which is why they are rarely chosen for a National game.BYU knew 15 years ago when it created BYU-TV and cut it's first deal with
Dish Network, that they would eventually have to Go it Alone. Fortunately, they had a bonified Legacy and National Brand, so that when they
decided to Go it Alone, within 30 days, they had their own Multi-Million dollar
TV deal, with the Biggest Name in Sports.And this drove the Ute fans
crazy.BYU already had in place a new 100 million dollar Broadcast
facility, which according to Trevor Mattich, rivals ESPN's at Bristol,
Conn.No, BYU is peculiar. And they have taken all the steps to
succeed at the highest levels.They don't need others Coat-Tails to
survive.Unlike the Posing Wannabee Commuter School.
Chris B; The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled
individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability
much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability
of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes. Your BYU-envy tantrums again
make you look small. I am glad you love your BCS membership, it has really
served you well so far...somehow? Oh yea, it got you a NC assistant coach who
has never succeeded with his own players he recruited and has always left with a
team that is undisciplined and unsuccessful. He also could barley say
"we" when talking about working at the U. I think he is placing himself
in a place he can get a job if they fire Whitt after another sub 500 season. So
have at him, good luck. But I'm guessing that will get you about as far as
your BCS membership has, sitting on the couch eating your bon-bons,watching the
Y play in the post season.
Tom can Tweet?That's his biggest accomplishment as AD.
Because of BYU's TV contract with ESPN and its national following, I
believe that the SEC would love to have BYU, if BYU was interested. But, BYU
might think that such a move would put too much pressure on them to win,
particularly in football and basketball. These are two sports that BYU would
have a hard time competing with the other schools in a high-pressure league like
the SEC, maybe according to BYU's viewpoint.
@Chris B "So byu would turn down a Big 12 invite?"According
to you, Chris, they already have: Chris B. 10:47 AM "I dont believe Holmoe
is being honest with you guys. I actually believe byu did have a tentative
offer".And since we all know that you are the resident expert on
all things BYU, I think you just answered your question.Go Cougars!
I couldn't be more content with independence. Who could be unhappy with
BYU's 2013 football schedule: Texas, Utah, Georgia Tech and Boise State at
home, with away games at Notre Dame, Nevada, Virginia, Utah State and Wisconsin.
Yes, you do have two gimme games at Middle Tennessee State and Idaho State, but
in spite of everyone's dire predictions about only being able to schedule
patsies in November Holmoe has scored Wisconsin and the Fighting Irish, not a
bad prep for bowl-time! If BYU plays well with this schedule, it has as good a
chance at a BCS bowl as anyone. Hopefully the team is up to the challenge!Plus I can't imagine anyone being unhappy with the WCC. It is an
awesome conference, not only for basketball, but has teams in other sports that
are perennial national contenders as well.I have no inside track on
BYU's strategy sessions, but I don't detect any displeasure with our
current opportunity. It's looking pretty good from where I sit. If a
conference cares to extend an invitation, there is no need to compromise.
We're not only surviving, but thriving right where we're at!
Last years Bowl Games:Utah was OUT;BYU was IN.Rumors are that Utah went bowling at Orchard Lanes.
Enough talking. BYU needs FIRST to win one or two (better) BCS bowl games. Then
and only then should they start clamoring for and courting a BCS conference.
This is waaaaaayyyyyy overdue. It's so much easier to get into the top tier
when you've earned the right. We have a much more national following and a
longer football legacy than Utah or Boise St., just lacking that notch in our
belts. As for Utah and what the BCS membership has done for
them...name ONE thing, please. I keep hearing about how great it is but all I
see is Utah is in the bottom of the conference both years (after expecting to be
Rose Bowl contenders).
LEDSFW sad:"Really Chris? Then why did ESPN offer BYU a contract
and why were BYU's ratings extremely good. Why is ESPN so pleased with its
relationship with BYU. One of the most immature things I read is when some fan
writes Nobody or everybody. Well, perhaps the fan is just thinking a little
larger about their importance than the actual body of followers and networks
that are happy to have BYU."Care to back up your claim about the
ESPN ratings? Its not what you think or hope for. And yes ESPN is going to say
they are pleased with the BYU contract. It's their money on the line.
Practically any company in the same boat will say that to save face. ESPN paid
for a 7-5 record, nothing else. Is that a good investment?
@LEDSFWAlso UTAH could NEVER have gone Independent, something BYU could
and did do.------------Why not? New Mexico State and
Idaho State did.But then again TCU and Utah were invited to a real
conference while BYU continues the 40+ year of "discussions".
toosmartforyou said:"Last years Bowl Games:Utah was
OUT;BYU was IN.Rumors are that Utah went bowling at Orchard
Lanes."Rumors are that USU had a higher bowl rating than BYU.
Wait that is true!
@Chrissy B.You already said that they did..quote:"I
actually believe byu did have a tentative offer..You'll never
understand why BYU can't give on the Sunday play issue.And I
don't think they (BYU) have a desire to ever go backwards on exposure and
what having their own Network avails to them.Anyone seen TCU lately?BYU and Utah were lost in the abyss for nearly a decade regarding
exposure. Utah and BYU could not even show a replay of their own games, for one
year, under the Thompson/CBS regime. CBS owns the Mountain West until 2020, with
each team only receiving abt. 2 million per year. BYU can make that much with 2
ESPN games or a neutral site game. BYU also likes the WCC for their
other sports, like minded institutions and the travel is ideal. And
their(WCC)top B-ball program is ranked 3rd in the Nation this week.Now don't you fret one more moment about what BYU is doing, just see if
your Utes can ever compete for a Conference Championship, in any sport.
upinthenight"Care to back up your claim about the ESPN ratings?
Its not what you think or hope for. And yes ESPN is going to say they are
pleased with the BYU contract."So we're supposed to believe
a BYU-hating troll more than ESPN executives and reporters about ESPN's
"true feelings" about ESPN's partnership with BYU?---------Joe Schad, ESPN's national college football
reporter:"I think BYU is certainly a national brand, in the same
ilk as Notre Dame," said Schad, who provided color commentary on ESPN radio
during the Cougars' recent appearance in the Poinsettia Bowl. "They
have a national recruiting base and a national following. Obviously, I'm
not a TV executive, but from what I have been told, ESPN is pleased with its
relationship with BYU and the scheduling opportunities that it has presented for
the network. BYU is a VERY ATTRACTIVE BRAND from a television perspective. My
company desired BYU as a broadcast partner. BYU is attractive to our television
audience and to our executives."Gotta laugh at the arrogance of
our little brothers on the hill who think they know more than anybody else.
@ Night OwlNo problem with USU's success. Congratulations to
them.Read betweent the lines, or even read the lines, and
you'll see:Big problem with Utah's PAC12 snobbery by one of
their fans who always posts first on BYU articles and bashes them while the team
he supports continually disappoints their fans.(Do you think Utah
will win 10 total PAC12 conference games in 3 years, or will it take them 4
Why does Chris B get away with calling Tom Holmoe a liar and the DesNews allows
his post? What gives here, anyway?
@twoforflinching Using Utah State, Idaho, and New Mexico State as examples of
Universities going independent is a poor example. Utah State is still digging
out of the hole going independent caused them. They had a great year last year
after many horrible years. Idaho and New Mexico State are going independent
because their conference has vanished and been morphed into the MWC. ONLY Notre
Dame would ever CHOOSE to go independent. Even BYU was trying to make the best
out of a bad situation, which after some growing pains, have accomplished. If
it was so easy, all of the big schools i.e. Texas, Alabama, USC would do it.
Finally on the BIG 12, at their conference meetings last week they announced
they were happy with 10 teams because they didn't have to share the pot of
money with as many teams. It will be hard for BYU to join strictly on money
These posts are fun to read. Some BYU fans are content with independence but
the premise of this article pertains to BYU being called up to the big leagues.
That doesn't sound like peace, joy, and contentment with independence to
me. The article also conveys the notion that Holmoe doesn't have a
strategy. Here's what Holmoe said last August..."I
understand how disappointed people were the they [Utah] got in the Pac-12 and
we're not."That doesn't sound like contentment either.
Further, it's interesting that Holmoe uses Utah as BYU's measuring
stick rather than simply saying...we're disappointed that BYU is not in a
BCS conference. So, in reference to a post above, who is the head
and who is the tail of the ant?
The BIG 12 never was an option for the Y and I suspect never will be. TCU got
the invite to BIG12 simply because they won a BCS bowl game and found themselves
in the top 10 a bunch of times in the past few years. Utah followed the same
pattern into the PAC12. BYU has never been to a BCS bowl and most likely never
will. I really think the Y is off the radar for any big conferences especially
with the terrible record the Y has had in football the past 2 years. BYU seems
to be settling into a new lower lever and that seems to be just fine for Holmoe
and most fans.
.twoforflinchinginteresting how you know utah could go independent
better than Dr. Hill, who by the way said exactly the opposite after BYU went
independent. He said there is no way utah could go independent. But continue
speaking for the athletic director at your school, it does wonders for your
"Rumors are that USU had a higher bowl rating than BYU. Wait that is
true!"USU also played on a weekend. Whereas BYU's bowl was
played on a Thursday night. Yeah, weekend bowl got higher ratings. Duh.
@ Obama10Florida St., Syracuse, Rutgers, VT, WVU, Louisville,
Cincinnati, and many others were all independent from the late 70's, to the
early 90's. The reason they chose to join a conf, and the reason 97% of
FBS college football teams choose to stay in a conference is because the
benefits of that membership far outweigh those of going independent.I know BYU is a unique case, and being independent is probably a better choice
than the MWC. But I think the Big XII is a far better option than staying
independent. IMO, BYU should be fighting tooth and nail to get in. It would be
a huge step forward for the entire athletic department, and CFB in general in
NevadaCougOverton, NV"Rumors are that USU had a higher bowl
rating than BYU. Wait that is true!"USU also played on a
weekend. Whereas BYU's bowl was played on a Thursday night. Yeah, weekend
bowl got higher ratings. Duh._________________Right it
was on a weekend, and BYU got stuck with its bowl.
Just the FAXOlympus Cove, UtahupinthenightSo we're
supposed to believe a BYU-hating troll more than ESPN executives and reporters
about ESPN's "true feelings" about ESPN's partnership with
BYU?---------Joe Schad, ESPN's national college
football reporter:"I think BYU is certainly a national brand, in
the same ilk as Notre Dame," said Schad, who provided color commentary on
ESPN radio during the Cougars' recent appearance in the Poinsettia Bowl.
"They have a national recruiting base and a national following. Obviously,
I'm not a TV executive, but from what I have been told, ESPN is pleased
with its relationship with BYU and the scheduling opportunities that it has
presented for the network. BYU is a VERY ATTRACTIVE BRAND from a television
perspective. My company desired BYU as a broadcast partner. BYU is attractive to
our television audience and to our executives."Gotta laugh at
the arrogance of our little brothers on the hill who think they know more than
anybody else.____________Yeah! You would think a power
conference would make an official invite to BYU with their national brand.
Especially after 40+ years LOL!Gotta laugh at the wishful thinkers
in BYU land.
@ IronhidePlease tell me you're kidding. Idaho is going
independent. Why wouldn't Utah be able to? Utah's endowment is three
times larger than Idaho's. Utah has vastly superior athletic facilities
across the board, as well as superior athletic teams. Utah is also in a much
bigger market. Oh, and Utah also has a tv and radio station on campus. You
keep telling yourself Utah couldn't do it though....
BYU's never had a chance, but really really never had a chance after the
Big 12 brought in West Virginia. The Big 12 doesn't want to expand, but if
they did they'd find a partner/rival for WVU. They will look east, not
dear 2fer youn ad has said that utah could never go independent ,so you need
to confront him and not other posters,it came straight from c hills mouth 2
years ago when BYU went independent
Idaho is going Independent and they still won't have a TV deal.We're talking about teams which can go Independent and then cut exclusive
ESPN-BYU type contracts with a Major Network.Having an on campus TV
studio does not equate with having your own Television Network with distribution
in 70 million homes on basic tier and millions more Internationally.Utah coud never equal BYU's situation. They're content riding
others coat-tails and living in obscurity.
As a BYU fan I am happy to watch the Cougars almost every day they play.
Independence keeps getting better and better in my book.I'm
watching a great basketball game right now. These WCC teams are a great fit for
BYU. Put BYU anywhere and they will compete.I just don't get
what's so great about being in a big boy conference and losing over 50% of
your games. If I were a Ute fan I'd be furious at how this failed Pac10.2
experiment has gone. I certainly understand why so many Ute fans get
their kicks out of trying to find some joy in BYU's losses, no conference
affiliation, a few football victories, etc......as there is no joy
in Uteville and all the Ute losses, no post seasons, dismal conference showings
and so forth.I love my Cougars and independence. Thanks
Tom for delivering on your promise. I enjoy it so much.
@ BlutoNobody is trying to claim that Utah would have a tv deal like
BYU has. The U is not sponsored by a church and as a result does not have a
built-in fan base that is spread out across the country. Of course Utah
can't equal BYU's situation. BYU can't equal Utah's
situation either. The schools are very different, which is why they are in the
situations they are currently in.The beauty of it all is that Utah
doesn't have to equal BYU. Utah got the better deal out of the two teams.
If the PAC or Big XII came calling BYU would jump into either league
WAC (USU) paddled my UtesStill smarting from the couch potato bowl I
see.With or without a conference affiliation BYU trumps U on the
national stage, on TV, fanbase numbers and so forth. You poor jealous temper
tantrum types just humor me to no end.Please educate us as to what
is so great about losing over 50% of your games in a big boy conference. Is it
the money that won't buy one 4 or 5 star recruit over USC, Oregon or
Stanford? Is it the empty seats at the HC? Or is it the pride of being
associated to something big when U are not?After two years and as
fickle as Ute fans are I'm surprised you and several others are still
here.Is it just the glory of one rivalry game per season and
dismissing the rest...Or is it a diminishing group of wishful
thinkers hoping that the Utes will rise again? LOL
2ferWhat is exactly "Utah's situation"? After two
seasons in the Pac10.2 I'm really curious about this 'situation'
you're crowing about.I'm dying to know how 'moral
victories' and staying home for the holidays makes for a great tradition
that fans clamor to see.
@ sammygUtah's situation is that they are a member of the
Pac-12. That alone opens up amazing possibilities for the University. On top
of that Utah has earned a revenue increase that is allowing Utah to invest in,
and expand, the athletics department like never before. We all know that the
Utes have struggled in the first couple of seasons, but that does not mean Utah
is forever doomed in conf. play.
Yes, I'll bet nothing quite beats being a bottom feeder in a not so stacked
with talent conference. You have 2-3 teams in everywhere but SEC and the rest
are just the embryonic sisters of the 'elite'. Just look at the
storied history of the far too overhyped bcs championship series... It is very
clear that for BYU to be envious Utah would have to be somewhere that not even
they would EVER get an invite to... The S E C ! ! ! It is them and then everyone
else all vying to be the top of the embryonic chain of overhyped hoopla!
@ Jake2010Answer honestly. If the PAC-12 had extended an invitation
to BYU would Holmoe have accepted the offer or would he have declined and taken
BYU into independence?The answer will tell you who landed the better
Holmoe says that we never got an invite which may be true, but the AD from TX
said at the time that BYU doesn't appear to be too anxious to get an invite
to the conference which tells me there is alot more to this than what Holmoe has
said. (i.e. the rumor that we wanted to make sure that Oklahoma and Texas
weren't going to run off and join the PAC10; the rumor that we wanted
replay rights for BYUtv and maybe even home game control in the event that a BYU
game wouldn't be picked up by a Network; and finally the rumor that we
didn't want the Conference to look at the Athletic Financials to see how
much of the Programs were funded by the Church and Tithe Payers).
I believe Holmoe was simply a pawn that was caught in the middle and a pawn that
wasn't very effective in converting Decision Makers to the thought that we
needed to agressively pursue the invite... I also strongly believe that our
feeble effort was directed by Lawyers and Members of the Board of Trustees out
of SLC who simply don't understand the value of being in the Big 12
(probably U Grads or USU Grads).This is not a defense of Holmoe... I
think that a strong AD would have been able to convince his side of the table
that they needed to do everything except Sunday play in order to get the
invite... Holmoe does not have that capability.
BYU isn't going to the Big 12. They will go to the B1G. Or maybe the SEC.
Big 12 doesn't want BYU because they know that BYU would dominate that
Dutchman:You make some assumptions about Florida State and Clemson
without considering how the fan bases and trustees of those fine institutions
might feel about the Big-12. The fact WVa was denied entrance into the ACC had
a lot to do with how FSU and Clemson felt about the lower academic standards at
WVa. I think you're mistaken to believe that the Big-12 need only ask and
FSU and Clemson would leave the ACC. They have little incentive to do so. The
hyperbol over that scenario was started by a few out-of-place media people
inside the BIG-12 before they ever considered the strong position those school
have within the ACC. There is nothing about a move 1500 miles west that makes
sense for them. WVa only accepted Big-12 invitations because it was turned down
by the Big-10, SEC and ACC.
@TwoForFlinching "Utah's situation is that they are a member of the
Pac-12. That alone opens up amazing possibilities for the University."Kansas, Washington St, Duke, Indiana, Iowa St, Colorado, Minnesota, etc
are all members of BCS conferences. Those 'amazing possibilities'
haven't really turned out for them, and I most certainly am not envious of
any of those teams or their situation.Utah is quickly becoming
another one of those teams: U have a spot at the "big boys" table, but
are stuck in the high chair. In this case, that involves playing in obscurity
on the PAC 12 network, losing seasons, and staying home for the bowl season.However, Ute fans are happy where they're at and I would say the
majority of BYU fans are happy with independence. I certainly am. Looking forward to a great 2013 season.Go Cougars!
Many don't get it, but I think the majority of BYU fans do. Holmoe is doing
the best job any Cougar fan could expect. I wish Holmoe would have
dropped the ball and scheduled a game the week before the my Utes roll into town
next year. That extra week preparing makes it tougher for the red. The schedule next year is solid for BYU. They play some lesser foes but not as
many. The top heavy opponents are great to have on the schedule and the November
line up is way better except Idaho State. The weaker teams except Idaho State
(again) are far better than the bottom four the last two years. Nevada and
Middle Tennessee State are not gimmes either.
@ truecoug1You know there are other sports besides football
don't you? Many of those schools you mentioned are legitimate contenders
in men's basketball. Others are strong at LAX, track and field, or
wrestling. The point is, Utah is in the process of growing its athletic profile
and will the increased revenue has the opportunity to improve all of its sports,
not just football.btw a couple of those teams you mentioned have
already appeared in, and won BCS bowls. If they can compete why can't
Not gonna stir the pot by answering 'what if' questions. For they are
of ZERO relevance. It is nice for conversational fodder, but only good to be
chewed on and then spat out. :)
2fer"You know there are other sports besides football don't
you?"Actually, BYU has known about sports like Track &
Field, Golf, Rugby, Cross Country, and Volleyball for decades, but it's
nice to know that the kids on the hill have finally discovered them.btw, without PAC 12 money, BYU was able to win NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS in every
one of the above mentioned sports.Thanks for playing.
truecoug1Provo, UT@TwoForFlinching "Utah's situation is
that they are a member of the Pac-12. That alone opens up amazing possibilities
for the University."Kansas, Washington St, Duke, Indiana, Iowa
St, Colorado, Minnesota, etc are all members of BCS conferences. Those
'amazing possibilities' haven't really turned out for them, and I
most certainly am not envious of any of those teams or their situation.Utah is quickly becoming another one of those teams: U have a spot at the
"big boys" table, but are stuck in the high chair. In this case, that
involves playing in obscurity on the PAC 12 network, losing seasons, and staying
home for the bowl season.__________________Right! Who would
want to be in the situation of Kansas, Duke or Indiana? You know, the elite of
college basketball with multiple NCAA basketball championships. The other
schools you mentioned have won titles in other sports as well.Meanwhile BYU is eating scraps on the floor under the "big boys"
table.Obscurity = lame ESPN ratings for BYU football. And BYU might
as well stayed home from their bowl. Who watched?
@ Jake2010You don't have to answer because we all know the
answer. BYU would take the PAC-12 offer as soon as it was offered.@
Snack PACBYU doesn't need PAC-12 money. We all know the Y is
extremely well funded. Like I said, now that Utah has a seat at the 'big
boy table', and the advantages that come with it, I hope to see an
improvement in the quality of our athletic teams across the board over the next
3-5 years. Also, (just to stir the pot) despite Utah's past disadvantages
to BYU, the Utes have 21 national titles while BYU only has 8. (The Y claims
14, but 2 are from the N.I.T and the other four are from non NCAA tournaments)
Two For FlinchingYou ask a reasonable question in an honest tone, so
here's my best shot. Of course it is unreasonable to assume that just
because the drum and feather is down now that it will always be down. Indeed,
the basketball team is times better than last year, insert obligatory smack talk
here.So why isn't it eaqually unreasonable to assume that
BYU's position in Independence, and the stock of their football team,
won't rise. I beleive it is frightened wishful Ute thinking that
BYU's best days are behind us.Here's my attempt at some
other fair and honest commentary. Of course, if BYU had been offered a seat at
the PAC whatever table, they would have jumped too (as long as Sunday play was
off the table). Independence is not better than a position in a power
conference, but as also stated in recent articles, that isn't too likely.
Independence IS a better option than the MWC. Perhaps even better than the deal
that Boise got.And Independence COULD continue to get even better.
If Anae can restore the offense, even the predictability, Independence WILL
continue to get better.
@ Y Grad / Y DadWell said. I think we can all agree that as of
right now, both Utah and BYU, have reached a place where a very special season
is possible if either of them manage to win 10 or 11 games in the regular
WAC (USU) paddled my UtesBYU playing in any bowl > couch potato
bowl and potato chipsIt still hurts.
2fer"We all know the Y is extremely well funded."BYU's athletic programs are funded entirely by donations from boosters
and revenue generated by ticket sales, television rights, etc.There
are plenty of schools receiving big boy conference money who have been mired at
the bottom of big boy conferences for decades with only brief flashes of
brilliance - Duke, Northwestern, Iowa St, Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, Indiana,
Washington St. in football are just a few examples.Don't assume
that big boy money will ever buy U a successful sports program in any sport.Utah's "national championships" are a joke as far as the
men are concerned; they've never won one. 10 of them are in the
coed sport of Skiing, where Denver and Colorado are virtually the only
competition the Utes ever face. 10 came in Women's
Gymnastics.1 wasn't even a national championship; it was an
NCAA tournament championship won when the NCAA tourney was the little brother of
the NIT and the rest of the country was busy fighting a world war and the few
teams still playing basketball were composed of freshmen and sophomores.
Since when is an NCAA tournament a requirement for winning a National
2ferDespite your delusional spin, BYU has dominated U in men's
national championships, and in across the board conference championships and
national rankings.The Directors' Cup is an award given annually
by the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics to the colleges
and universities in the United States with the most success in collegiate
athletics.Of the 154 schools ranked in the Director's Cup
Standings for the just completed Fall 2012 sports:BYU finished #13.
8 of the 9 WCC schools were ranked. 11 of the 12 PAC-12
schools were ranked.Utah was UNRANKED because the Utes didn't
earn a single point in any sport - NOT atypical.The Utes are all
talk, but no walk when it comes to overall athletic success.In your
first two years in the PAC 12, you've finished dead last or next to last in
almost every men's sport you've competed in. The Red Rocks are the
only team on campus that's even competitive in the PAC 12, let alone
2ferEven when they're not winning championships, BYU still
shows they're very competitive in numerous sports every year.Evidence of BYU's continued across the board athletic success from the
headlines in today's D-News:- BYU swimming: men's 200 free
relay team sets new meet and school record on day 2- BYU swimming:
men in first and women in third after day 3 at MPSF meet- BYU track:
Weirich wins pole vault at MPSF Championships- BYU volleyball: No. 2
BYU sweeps No. 14 Pacific at home- BYU golf: Blair and Keiley lead
Cougars to third place finish at the John Burns Intercollegiate- BYU
baseball: No. 2 LSU was on the ropes twice Thursday night against BYU’s
baseball team, but escaped with a 6-5 victory
Two For FlinchingHere's a suggestion:Instead of
beating your chest about simply being in the PAC 12, why don't U wait until
you've actually accomplished something in the PAC 12?As much as
Utah fan's like to minimize BYU's accomplishments, at least the
Cougars managed to crack the Top 25 and win two bowl games in their first two
years of Independence.That dwarfs what the Utes have accomplished in
their first two years in the PAC 12.Anybody who tries to spin that
finishing unranked or with a losing season is BETTER, is just blowing smoke.
It's too bad the Utes don't have a men's volleyball team; that
would be a fun sport for the Utes to compete against the Cougars.
If Kyle hadn't wasted so much money hiring three offensive coordinators,
maybe the Utes could have afforded adding men's volleyball.
@ Just the FAXAll I have said in regards to PAC-12 membership is
that it has given Utah a chance to improve all of its athletic teams. And that
conf. affiliation that comes with a tv deal like the PAC has is a better choice
than not having those luxuries. Do you disagree with any of that?If
you want to pat yourself on the back for tearing apart Idaho and Idaho St. every
season, so be it. But deep down you know that winning with a harder schedule is
far more fulfilling. Utah is struggling right now, but if/when the Utes have a
break through season it will be very special.
Two For FlinchingGotta love the SOS hyperbole smack that U throw out
knowing full well that BYU's schedule in 2013 is every bit as hard as
Utah's.Utah fans keep bragging about their schedule, when the
reality is, schedule strength doesn't mean diddly IF U DON'T WIN!The Utes haven't beaten a PAC 12 team with a winning record in two
years in the conference, and against Top 25 teams last season, BYU did better
than U:BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams and finished 1-4(20%) with three
of BYU's losses coming on the road by a total of TEN points.Utah played TWO Top 25 teams and finished 0-2(0%) by a total of TWENTY
points.Average score vs Top 25 TeamsBYU - 13-18 minus 5
pointsUtah - 13-24 minus 11 pointsWith more
"advantages" Utah has been less successful.
@ BlueCougIf you read the last sentence in my previous post
you'll notice that I agree with you that Utah needs to win more conference
games.The PAC-12 has provided Utah with many great advantages, but
it's still too early in the process to see those manifested on the field.
Most of the recruits are not getting significant reps yet and Utah is still not
getting a full share of the money. It is a process and it will take time.
@WACPaddingOurSchedule "Right! Who would want to be in the situation of
Kansas, Duke or Indiana? You know, the elite of college basketball with multiple
NCAA basketball championships. The other schools you mentioned have won titles
in other sports as well."So has BYU, and that's without BCS
conference membership (which doesn't apply to NCAA basketball anyway). My point was, BYU has won national titles in most all sports without
having had to be in a BCS conference. BYU's basketball program is
fantastic, obviously not up to par with Kansas, Duke, or Indiana, but definitely
better than Iowa, Texas Tech, Maryland, etc...all members of the major
conferences.BYU is fine where it's at. The Cougars don't
need to be in a "big" conference to be relevant on a national scale.
Even in a down year, BYU's basketball team has 20 wins and postseason
possibilities to its name.It's a great time to be a Cougar.
Competitive in all sports without needing big-time conference affiliation to be
relevant.So no, I'm not envious of any other school and their
"big-conference" affiliation. I love my Cougars and where they're
@ truecoug141- Iowa55- Maryland63- BYUAnd
Tx. Tech is ranked 50 spots below Utah, so i'm not sure why they were
included in your list. Anyway, the point is BYU would be middle of the road at
best in any of the major conferences. BYU basketball may not be as fantastic as
you think."BYU has won national titles in most all
sports"That is incorrect as well. BYU sponsors 21 varsity
sports and has national titles in 6 of them.I agree with you that
BYU has been very successful despite not being included in a BCS conf. BYU
still has many advantages of BCS teams, like a nationwide fan base and, most
@TwoForFlinchingI wasn't referring to Iowa, Maryland, or Texas
Tech of this year. I've already mentioned that BYU is in a down year in
basketball this season. My point was that on average, BYU's basketball
program since Dave Rose took over has been very competitive, more competitive
than a lot of teams from the "big name" conferences. Just
like BYU's football team isn't in the same class as Alabama, LSU, or
other perennial powerhouse football teams, but they're more competitive and
relevant than a vast majority of members of the BCS conferences.My
overall point was, and still is, that BYU isn't envious of any school like
Utah, Maryland, Iowa, Colorado, Washington St. etc, since BYU is doing just fine
without being in a "major" conference. I personally love independence
for BYU and I hope it continues down the line.Go Cougars!
"Well said. I think we can all agree that as of right now, both Utah and
BYU, have reached a place where a very special season is possible if either of
them manage to win 10 or 11 games in the regular season."BYU can
go 12-0 and they're playing in the Poinsettia Bowl. This new playoff is
simply lipstick on a pig. The Big 10, Pac 12, Big 12, and SEC champion will
play in it even if that champion is 7-5...
The end is definitely near. Chris B. made a positive comment regarding BYU and
you can now purchase beer on Sunday in Orem.