Socialize the cost/risk, privatize the gain, the Utah way. Gov. Herbert seems
to have made up his mind already; sad.
I'm sure for some of the real estate developers in the legislature this
will boon, as for the rest of us...
This is goofy on so many levels its hard to know where to begin.Prisoners commonly must be transported to court hearings, yes, even AFTER
they've been convicted. How much is it going to cost the state to drive
them from, say, Delta?They also routinely have to be taken to Umed
for medical situations. Do we use one of Umeds helicopters at 25k per ride? Or
have them ride in an ambulance for 2 hrs.?How about the employees
who work at the prison? Will they all be moving to Skull Valley (or Delta)in
order to continue their employment?Whenever "spare land",
"developers" and "Utah legislature" is used in the same
paragraph, Utah residents SHOULD be very concerned.I wonder how the
State Bar will feel about their attorneys making a 2 hr. drive to Skull Valley
or Delta to confer with their clients?
Let's see who within government buys land with inside information and makes
a fortune on the real estate deal. For years the recommendation was
to keep it close to population centers so families could visit
inmates...without that there is little chance of rehabilitation.
In my opinion do not move the prison and do not continue the so called tradition
of Utah Government leaders indulging in their pet projects that make a few
individuals alot of money but leave the taxpayers footing the bill for years to
come. It's a recession out there and we don't need to spend even more
money moving a prison. Expand it if you will on the current property and stop
wasting taxpayer money and stop catering to special interest groups. If you want
to do something, work on reducing crime and reducing ridiculously high amounts
of regular violence in public schools and make the school districts less costly
and the school administrators more accountable and that would reduce some of the
number of felons in prison.
It's obvious which way this is going - regardless of the impact to Utah
taxpayers. A few developers and cities will gain substantially, while the rest
of the state subsidizes that enrichment.
I've always felt the prison was in a strange location. If you
want it closer to the families of the people that contribute the most folks, it
should be split into West Valley Prison, and Ogden Prison. Right now it's
far too close to Provo to be of any use to family members that have inmates. That whole area of realestate is going bonkers right now. I can see why
the state would want to move it to some strip of land with less upside
Apparently I'm the only one who thinks this is a good idea.The
fact is the prison is currently located in a prime area especially for
technology companies. STEM jobs are where the future is (not manufacturing) and
Utah needs to do what it can to let those kinds of jobs develop by maximizing
If that land is so valuable, sell it to private industry to the highest bidder
if the proceeds are high enough to pay for the prison move.Remember
UTOPIA who promised the moon but private industry was unwilling to fund it and a
lot of municipalities got stuck holding the bag?Lets be smarter this
This is all about making a handful of the very connected very rich. Not to
worry, the rest of us will foot the bill.
The savings in operating costs are a shame. The cost to transport offenders will
increase. The difficuly in finding professionals in rural areas will result in
the need to contract services which may look like a cost savings but if you look
at other states it becomes a bait and switch and costs increase. the problem is
once you've made the switch you can not go back without it even cost more.
The Leg. will pretend in the long run to listen to citizens but they will make
the move regardless of any oposition. They do what is good for them and not for
the State. Some one is getting thier pockets lined and it will be with 14K gold
thread. St. George, Tremonton, Delta, Bluff get ready to pay more taxes for
Draper City to get their way and have the prison moved.
@Fitness Freak"I wonder how the State Bar will feel about their
attorneys making a 2 hr. drive to Skull Valley or Delta to confer with their
clients?"I can answer this one. The answer is, the state bar
won't care because those two hour drives are billable hours.
The Governor wants to wait as a developer so he won't have a conflict of
interest in the point of the mountain territory that crosses Salt Lake and Utah
counties. Sugar House is a small area compared to the access to the I-15
corridor and visibility the prison area has with affiliated government
facilities and property in the area that would probably be relocated also due to
the prison requirements changing with other agencies. Other
counties have taken advantage of the lack of facilities for prisoners and built
their jails to house offenders of the law and gain rental property and tax
advantages with their county jail and services for related transportation, food,
laundry, clinical workers, etc. that would then go to the Tooele county facility
where it would most likely be located. Tooele will have chemical, nuclear and
ordinary waste to store, handle and destroy over millions of years. The prison
will be closer to the $100,000,000 race track for diversionary activity for
people that visit the prison close to other distribution points in the area.
The old prison land will become the new setting sun vice daybreak
for many senior citizens in the future.
Another project for the Gov's buddies to make money. If we are
going to do it... let's build it on Fremont Island in the middle of the
GSL. This would provide proximity to population for visitation (family and
counsel) , two hospitals in the Ogden area, and geographic security features.
If they do this - mandate that any development of the property is non-polluting
(electric heat, etc)
Fitness asks: "I wonder how the State Bar will feel about their attorneys
making a 2 hr. drive to Skull Valley or Delta to confer with their
clients?"I have an answer for that: They will LOVE it because
they will be able to charge for their time just as they usually do now.
optic yellow: Excellent suggestion. However, Antelope Island would be a better
choice since there is already a connecting road access and it would be close to
both Ogden and West Valley.
How many major metropolitan areas have a state prison literally in the middle of
it? It's a great idea for our community (all of the Wasatch Front) to move
the prison. Let's move it to a location that is as close to the Wasatch
Front as possible but not in the community.
PH: Your answer: Many, many many. I know you're trying to make a point, but
it backfires on you when you don't research the answer to your rhetorical
question before you ask it. Look it up. There are tons of cities (much bigger
than Draper) that have prisons plopped in the middle of them. Did you not read
about the high rise in Chicago recently? Not been to Vegas in your lifetime?
What about Baltimore? Sorry to break the news, but that argument is hosed.
Another fast track piece of legislation to benefit a few republican cronies.
The ecnonomic projections are fairy tales. If they were correct, the private
sector would be coming up with the funds. It isn't and won't. The
hits just keep on coming, relocate the prison, attorney general John Swallow,
nuclear power plant unable to attract private capital, pipeline to St George
that can't be done without statewide taxes subsidizing the project, $13
million paid to a losing UDOT bidder, an expensive UTA system with declining
ridership but with well paid executives, the hacking of medicare and ss info,
because someone forgot to shut off the system; and a college drop out Governor.
I would believe that Riverton, Utah has benefitted by $100Ms of dollars over the
years due to the hotels, jobs, service industries and other jobs and benefits
from having such a large institution in their back yard. People since the early
1950s knew the prison was in their area when they moved in and long term
families at that time would be older than 60 and have adapted to that facility,
even though it expands on its 600 plus acres due to more programs. The related
industries would then move to another location and for some that would be a
cost. The newer facilities would probably be better but the prison has updated
along the line due to mandatory requirements the federal and state have forced
into security and other statutes. In 50 or 60 years, the new area
will have to deal with similar issues but the new Sugar House in Riverton and
Draper and Lehi will also have to deal with new issues such as gated
communities, seniors and their lifestyle changes, nursing homes and retirement
centers and other mundane items including cemeteries, etc. Life goes on.
Here in Utah we used to value open land and undeveloped areas. Now, if there is
a dollar to be made people will develop the land. It is really sad, but nearly
every square inch of the salt lake valley will be developed soon. Moving the
prison is a rediculous idea that will only make the developers and local
officials rich. The rest of us get to pay for their huge salaries. What a joke
Utah, the land of multi-level marketing scams and crony capitalism. Republicans
in Utah are quick to criticize Obama all the while electing an AG with very
sketchy ethics. That is what you get when you have one party to choose from.
Who is going to pay to relocate all of the employees? Will they be given a
home-purchase option to help them sell the homes they currently live in or will
the employees be treated as just a commodity? Since prison guards
aren't well known for being wealthy and I'm going to assume that most
of their spouses work in the local community, will any kind of job assistance be
offered to spouses of employees? Who will pay for the new schools to house the
children of the employees? Who will pay for the infrasructure of the new
community that will have to be built? There's more to moving
the prison than just moving the prison.
I'm sure that Ellis Ivory and Terry Diehl are way on board with this
proposal. I'm sure Draper City is too. I see $$$ signs.A new
prison would cost billions. The state won't get that for that land the
prison currently sits on.I say keep it where it is. BTW Phoenix has
a major prison right on the I-17 corridor just north of town. Same with Las
Vegas along 1-15. San Quenton is in Marin County surrounded by all kinds of
swanky development. They are not moving San Quenton time soon. Also the
Wyoming State Prison is right in Rawlings.
What about the current prison employees who now work for the prison? How will
this affect them? Would they want to relocate? There is also the issue of the
many volunteers that come to the prison to provide their time to help who live
in the SLC area. I also think this will be a problem for medical treatment for
prisoners who receive care at the U Medical Center.It just doesn't
make sense for the state to do this now when they the legislature is screaming
that there isn't any money to fund the government that is in place now.
It's good the state isn't thinking of privatizing the prison, other
states that thought that would save money are finding it isn't the case.
Will this be like some of the other departments in the state who have a few at
the top who profit from the sale? Think UTA or Dept. of Transportation. The
prison move shouldn't be fast tracked!
Oh, you cynical people. I think this is an idea whose time has come. That real
estate is too valuable for other things to continue to be used for an outdated,
run down prison. The market is the best determinant of what is the best use for
the property. The city has moved south until it surrounds the prison and it is
no longer the best use of the land. I say let the state sell it and get the
proceeds. Let developers come in and turn it into a more attractive, productive
location.Honestly, some people see evil in everything.
I guess we never need to make a formal study regarding a major project for the
state. Just put an article in the newspaper and the comments will give you a
factual analysis of why we shouldn't even consider it.I agree
that in a project like this there is cause for concern. But when you consider
what it costs to operate the state's correctional facilities I think it is
worth looking into options that could help reduce those costs while upgrading
facilities. Lets get the facts before we come to any conclusions.
Didn't we go through this earlier with FrontRunner land? It seems
legislators and their buddies benefit from the land deals while taxpayers take
the chances. Check and see if the same legislators are all over this again.
I can hear it now. No prison anywhere near my neighborhood. A prison nearby
would lower my property values. I have worked in corrections. Everytime we
tried to build a community correctional center the neighborhood opposed it.
There is a not suitable location in the state that would not face bitter
opposition. It will happen. Communities will be divided. I have no doubt.
Well here is an idea to include IF there is a decision to re-locate. Land sales
(by the State) to actual land user with no developer, middle-men etc. Due
dilligence requirements that the proposed business must be operating within a
specified operating time with a given number of employees (like on some economic
development deals.) ALSO the State would retain a first option to
buy-back the land at the price it was sold for if the purchaser was to cease.
Development of the land, such as roads would remain with the land, buildings
could be removed or a price negoiated for them.All planning and
zoning for the future use of the prison land should be completed before the
final decision was made. All plans for the new prison would b complete so new
construction costs would be accurate before the final decision is made. This
would include options, access, power to the new prison site.Given
all this you could start deciding if it would be a "good deal" for the
citizens of Utah and all factors such as miles for visitation, staffing etc.
could be considered !
Move the prisoners but leave it empty. Develop it like Alcatraz. Wouldn't
be suprised if it's haunted like it.
@ "dalefarr" You "hit the nail right on the head" You're
exactly right with your comments.The way I see the
"bigshots" getting their piece of the pie is this: The legislators
won't EXACTLY make the money themselves, rather they'll tell their
"brother-in-law" or their "second cousin twice removed" as to
the location of the new prison. Then, obviously the "brother-in-law"
buys up all the real estate surrounding the new prison.The
legislator has "insulated" himself. I agree with "cjb" -
put out requests to bid on selling the existing property, see if ANY private
developer will pay what it costs for a new prison to be built. If not forget
the whole scheme.I won't even begin to speculate how much
payola will be involved in building the (potential) new prison vis-a-vis the
construction/development companies!As someone else already said
"Private profits, public financing". The Utah way!
Allen #2:Antelope Island is a Utah State Park. Good luck in getting
the state to close that for a prison! I will not happen.
I lived several years in Utah. I think there are people that are in there just
for their own gain. If it isn't advantageous for the state and the
taxpayers have to fit the bill than I don't think it should be relocated.
All if the correctional facilities here in Nebraska are located in Omaha and
Lincoln or very close to them and I think it is where they should be located.
Lincoln is home to the pen and it has been the same pen I can remember. Never
been moved and there are no plans to move it. The only change is the hardened
ones eg death row go to Tecumseh and the woman's reformatory is in York but
not far from Lincoln. If our governor even suggested moving it id write him and
express my feelings.
Schools wear out and get replaced. So do government buildings. How many new
city halls have been built in the last decade in Utah?News for the
anti's-----prison's wear out, too. Utah's is so old it costs
tons to maintain it. But that's ok---it's just convicts anyway,
right?I just hope they use good reasoning power and not politics as
to where a new facility ought to be built.
The ake of of the proposed committee is a conflict of interest. Board of
corrections? Who wouldn't want "new digs" (just not in Juab
county). Economic committee? What are they getting paid to do? That is too easy.
Real Estate? Not lining their pockets, how do you propose that they do that. Fox
and hen house hmmmm heard that before.1600 Volunteers? not outside of the
current location. Back to the drawing board on this one. Another scheme to
increase taxes.When Hill Air Force Base is closed it may make sense to
move it there. Pleanty of people to provide volunteers and a ready work force.
Benefit Utah loses one of the Federal government shackles.
i am retired from corrections. the state would save money on maintenance as most
of the prison is falling apart.. inmates do not have to be transported
physically to court. gunnison uses video for many of their proceedings.. this
is a big decision.. hope they think of all the angles before jumping in with
Developing 600 acres is going to bring $20 Billion to the State? Really?
That's funny. The land is only worth $140 million but will bring in $20
Billion. That's funny.Must be magic land. The State should
not get into the development business. The private sector has a hard time
getting this right. The State will have a harder time. There are
plenty of other 600 acre parcels in Salt Lake County and Utah County. Of
course, the hand picked committee recommends moving the prison. That's why
they were picked.What of the social costs of prisoners far removed
from family and friends? What of prison employees having to commute long
distances or move. The point of the Mountain is congested already.
The air quality in the valley is bad. More buildings in a bad airshed is bad
business. On a bad day its a parking lot. On a good day its congested.Of course this is already a done deal. So why bother discussing it?
That's what they need to sell the state land & have more urbanization
and pollution. I have no problem moving the prison, but the existing land
should be leased out for agriculture to feed the urbanites. Remember 1983 when
the land slides blocked Hgw. 6 and the Railroad thru Spanish Fork cyn.
Commerece was shut down for about a year. If that had been the only food source
the city folks would parish. Also remember the blockaid of Berlin. Food had to
be flown in to the city. Natural disasters do happen. The prison property
should be used to feed the folks, and prevent further pollution.
Why don't they keep the prison where it is and embark on a modernization of
the old buildings if practical or build a new building with more floors to
increase capacity without increasing the foot print, then demolish the oldest
buildings and build new ones with more floors again for more capacity. In my
humble opinion the prison should not be moved. If it is the taxpayers will be
stuck with some huge bills while some developers will reap a windfall, unless
the government acts as the developer so the profits accrue to the state.
Moving the prison will be one of the biggest boondoggles in Utah's history.
It will face all the cost multipliers, litigation,regulation, epa, osha,cost
overuns. It will be Utah's medicare just as Lyndon Johnson predicted
medicare would cost x amount the costs escalated by 7 times. Relocating the
prison has the same potential. It has the potential for benefiting real estate
developers and shackling Utah citizens with never ending costs. Buildings do
wear out and they could be razed and new ones built at the same location. We
know the costs at the point of the mountain but do we really know from this hand
selected or perhaps partisan group of lets build a new prison zealots? Due
dilligece, accurate information,and not public financing,private profit.
They had thier chance to have moved it years ago to a really good location but
instead chose to make another big mistake and create the bottle neck community
of Eagle Mountain and create an even bigger logistical nightmare...So what will
be the new direction this boondoggle will now head into.