Quantcast
Sports

Utah Utes football: LDS institute building helps Utes lure Texas star Gaius Vaenuku to program

Comments

Return To Article
  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 6:42 p.m.

    A nice recruit! Glad to see you made a wise decision, Gaius. The U does have plenty to offer, including overall access to the BCS, national exposure in the PAC 12, and ultimately a better chance for you to someday play in the NFL.

    Good luck to you, and welcome to Ute Nation!

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    Jan. 28, 2013 7:44 p.m.

    Interesting how what appears to be a very devout mormon finds bYu to be over the top. Clearly Provo holds everything an missonary would want...yet something didn't smell right to him.

    Sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders.

  • Max-was-right springville, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 8:02 p.m.

    Nothing like playing in the pac ten, even if your a door mat.

  • JayDee West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 8:18 p.m.

    @ da hog:

    You're inferring something that isn't in the article. Where in the world do you come up with the idea that he considers BYU "over the top"? (Don't look now, but your bias is showing...as always.)

    Sounds like both the Church and his friends were deciding factors. Good for him.

    Good luck to the young man on his quest for .500 season in the PAC 12...South

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 8:20 p.m.

    Welcome to the University of Utah, young man. Your assessment of the program (and the institute building) is spot on. Everything you need is right there for you. Good choice, Gaius.

    GO UTES!!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 9:01 p.m.

    Question:

    How many recruits had offers to both byu and Utah, and of those how many picked byu and how many picked Utah?

    The future(and present) of football in Utah,

    Is Utah!

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 9:22 p.m.

    JayDee,

    Enjoy your ".500 season" comments while you can. Now that BYU is playing a decent schedule it'll be fun watching the humble pie settle in the stomachs of cougar fans such as yourself.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 9:32 p.m.

    The commits, including Vaenuku, that have come in the past week for Utah are absolutely huge gets. The coaches deserve kudos for putting together the most solid recruiting class top to bottom that Utah has ever had. Most importantly, every position of need seems to have been addressed quite well which should leave few if any holes/weeknesses in the roster.
    It's amazing to see that while Utah's recruiting class is ranked 32nd by Rivals, 7 Pac-12 teams are currently ranked higher. It goes to show the level of competition Utah is playing against week in and week out.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 9:40 p.m.

    Oops ... turns out spelling might be a "weekness" of mine.

  • Chewbacca Magna, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 10:08 p.m.

    Cougar sour grapes make a very sweet whine!

    Welcome to the U Gaius! It's going to be a great ride.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 11:14 p.m.

    Congrats to him, and good on Coach Scalley for keeping that Texas, and particularly Euless Trinity, pipeline open and flowing with some good ones. Lutui was a huge get late last year, Tevi was a big one early this year, Uhatafe is a huge body, we'll see whether he flew under the radar or if the Utes had to reach for him, and Vaenuku was a very widely recruited kid (5A Texas first team all-state, over 40 scholarship offers). Glad to have them all aboard.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 11:28 p.m.

    Chewbacca

    What sour grapes?

    U can choose to bury your head in the sand and pretend it isn't so, but finishing 8th and 11th in the PAC 12 and not being able to beat a single conference opponent with a winning record is proof enough that Utah is a certified PAC 12 bottom dweller.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 11:45 p.m.

    Swoop

    "Utah is a certified PAC 12 bottom dweller"

    And BYU is what? The best of the bottom of the WAC? Congratulations I guess?

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 11:50 p.m.

    motorbike

    "And BYU is what?"

    Better than U!

    2011 - BYU(10-3) Ranked > Utah(8-5) unranked
    2012 - BYU(8-5) Bowl Winner > Utah(5-7) no bowl

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 28, 2013 11:55 p.m.

    motorbike

    "And BYU is what? The best of the bottom of the WAC?"

    Actually, BYU BEAT the WAC champion, unlike Utah, which finished 0-1 against the WAC in 2012. Doesn't that make Utah 0-2 versus the WAC in Utah's final two games against the WAC, ever?

    Congratulations WAC bottom dweller!

  • 86&90UTE Holladay, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 12:07 a.m.

    Swoop, really.Because of the vast disparity in strength of schedule, you cannot compare win/loss between BYU and Utah. 54-10 and 24-21. Nothing, and you know it, nothing else really is relevant. However, next year BYU actually has a comparable schedule to Utah. Time will tell whose SOS is better. If BYU beats my Utes and goes 7-5 or better, I will be impressed. Doubt it will happen with gimpy running QB, new OC, and tougher schedule. But good luck!

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2013 12:58 a.m.

    @Swoop

    Your record comparisons don't account for schedule differences. Utah has won 8 of 11 head to head with BYU.

    BYU's 2011 schedule was AWFUL. Yes that year Utah finished 8-5 and BYU 10-3. BYU also played 4 cupcakes of the lowest level possible. Utah beat BYU 54-10 that season and still BYU fans can't deal with it. As for BYU being ranked. That was a joke and it was due to exposure and brand name. A 10-3 record sounds good except when BYU was 6-3, they were nowhere near ranked. Then they finished the season 4-0 against Idaho, New Mexico State, Hawaii, and Tulsa. Suddenly they are ranked. BYU won tight games against USU and UCF that could have gone the other way that year. However, last year those tight games went against BYU.

    2012; Coach Whitt botched his QB situation as much as Bronco. And Utah went 5-7. Still, the difference in bowling between Utah and BYU is the schedule.

    BYU can go 2-6 against their tough opponents and 4-0 against the cupcakes and still go bowling at 6-6 in this independence thing.

  • rlsintx Plano, TX
    Jan. 29, 2013 7:22 a.m.

    Good the kid values serving a mission and that he knows he can associate with those who can help him in that resolve by attending the Institute on campus.

    Far too many LDS kids adopt a cultural fixation on BYU at the expense of realizing they'd do great things as missionaries just by setting foot on other campuses and being their best selves day-to-day and associating with others. Institute can be a great anchor and home away from home culturally. I can name 11 personal friends who joined the LDS Church directly because of having met someone LDS who they respected in colleges outside of Utah - MIT, NYU, Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Purdue, Texas, Oklahoma, OK State. The world is our campus, indeed.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 29, 2013 7:27 a.m.

    Another good pick up by Utah. I love how all the Utah Haters swoop onto the thread, then pretend that losing 3 in a row, and 8 of 11 to there rival means nothing. Too Funny!

  • bdckpakccd Plano, TX
    Jan. 29, 2013 7:37 a.m.

    The real story here is that BYU doesn't understand that Texas, and especially Euless Trinity, is the home of the best high school football in the country. There are VERY fine young men here that perhaps on paper don't beat out athletes from other parts of the country, but they underestimate the benefit of having played in Texas. And I simply cannot understand it. ALL THE OTHER COACHES IN THE COUNTRY understand it. I live across the street from Plano Sr. High, which has the winningest high school program in the state over the last 50 years and I know every varsity coach. I see how the BYU recruiters treat our players vs how other top programs treat our players. I don't know if it is ignorant or arrogant----but it isn't working for them. I had hoped they would see the light when Bingham was humiliated by Euless Trinity in the Tom Landry Classic. You just can't stack your team with players from Utah and hope to really compete with top D1 teams. Dick Harmon wrote a piece about this, but even then soft-pedaled the obvious problem. Wake up, BYU!

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Jan. 29, 2013 7:46 a.m.

    Great pickup for the Utes. I would have loved to see him, and Levi, in Cougar blue but heading off to Utah is also great. As for comparing the two schools over the last two years... neither has done anything, so who cares? Let's wait until either team gets a quality win before we start crowing.

  • Whoa Nellie American Fork, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 8:13 a.m.

    Congratulations to the Utah program and this young man. Just curious about one of the comments in the article. He seemed to be impressed with the Utah facilities. Would those be the trailers where the football offices are located?

  • Red and Blue VANCOUVER, WA
    Jan. 29, 2013 8:34 a.m.

    Vaenuku seems to be very intelligent. I'm sure he just did not want to placy for Bronco. Smart choice!

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 8:53 a.m.

    86&90UTE

    "Swoop, really. Because of the vast disparity in strength of schedule, you cannot compare win/loss between BYU and Utah."

    Vast disparity? BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams. Utah only played TWO!

    But you can compare final rankings.

    Coaches/AP/Sagarin
    2011 BYU #25/#26/#34 > Utah unranked/#39
    2012 BYU unranked/#26 > Utah unranked/#61

    The difference wasn't just the schedule and bowling, it was the overall results.

    BYU beat #16 Utah State, ACC division champ Georgia Tech (which manhandled USC in the Sun Bowl), and MWC co-champ SDSU in 2012.

    Utah beat BYU and NOBODY else.

    Best case scenario for Utah playing BYU's schedule would have been losses to Boise State, Utah State, Oregon State, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, and San Jose State, and a loss to SDSU in the Poinsettia Bowl. A bowl game loss and a losing 6-7 season for Utah, still not as good as BYU's 8-5 bowl game winning season.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:09 a.m.

    gdog3finally

    Nice spin about SOS, but why do Utah fans pretend that pollsters consider SOS for every team in the country, EXCEPT BYU?

    You do realize, don't U, that the AP writers, Coaches, and Sagarin ALL consider WHO teams played along with records against said teams, in determining where to rank each team, including BYU?

    Why was Ohio State(12-0) only ranked #13 by Sagarin?

    Because Ohio State's SOS was #60.

    So it's obvious that Sagarin considers SOS very carefully in his rankings.

    Despite your SOS spin, BYU still finished higher in Sagarin's ratings the last two years.

    2011 BYU #34 > Utah #39
    2012 BYU #26 > Utah #61

    Sorry to burst your jealous, crimson bubble, but you don't get credit for playing a tougher schedule if you don't WIN!

  • Go Utes Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:16 a.m.

    Welcome to the U Vaenuku! Be careful though: you are letting the secret out that the U is the best LDS campus in the country. If everyone finds out that at the U you get all of the LDS benefit of BYU but none of its burdens (and play for a better program/team to boot), who knows what consequences will follow. I prepared for my mission at the U, met my wife there, married her in the temple while at the U, and we now enjoy taking our little family to the games. But let's just keep this between you and me. I don't want to upset any other institution in the state that might be upset if word got out about what a great LDS campus the U is. Excited to see you on the field! Go Utes!

  • TheNun Granstville, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:19 a.m.

    I love the way the cougars are all over this article on Utah recruits, detailing how much better their team fared last year. Sounding off about how well the cougs did in their "conference", compared to how the Utes finished in their conference. Bragging about the cougs beating the WAC champions while the Utes lost to the same team, blah, blah, blah.

    All the while they conveniently fail to mention the first and foremost comparison between any two teams is head to head matchups. Three straight and 8 of 11, is somehow overlooked by the spin doctors of cougar nation. Nicely spun.

  • oldcougar Orem, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:25 a.m.

    Congrats to Utah and to Gaius. I'll enjoy watching him play. He appears to be a fine young man. I hope he prospers in the gospel, in his life, and in his game. Best of luck.

  • TFUDD SLC, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:30 a.m.

    @Uteanymous

    Sorry to burst your bubble but when you don't beat a certain team it generally means your not better than that team. You can throw out as many stats as you want but in the end a loss is a loss. I'm not a BYU hater but dude you've lost 3 years in a row so you have absolutely no bragging rights. You have nothing against us because you LOST! If you were a smart BYU fan then you would realize that. This goes for Utah fans as well. When we lose then we should not talk any heat. Even if we have a better record. The "which team is better" game depends on the game they play. So UTAH fans and BYU fans stop crying about the number of wins and losses or who went to a bowl game. Utah won this year so we were better this year. Why would we be jealous? scoreboard!

  • EMBO23 Riverton, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    The LDS Institute building is the most impressive aspect of Utah's campus and program...that's going to leave a mark.

  • TFUDD SLC, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:34 a.m.

    @ChrisB

    I am a Utah fan Chris but you need to really think about some of the posts you make. Stop giving BYU fans things to jump on and create fusses about.

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:42 a.m.

    Sounds like he never considered BYU. Between utah and TCU, I'd say that he put football fifth.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:59 a.m.

    Go Utes

    "If everyone finds out that at the U you get all of the LDS benefit of BYU but none of its burdens (and play for a better program/team to boot), who knows what consequences will follow."

    Having attended both universities and having graduated from Utah, I can tell you from first hand experience that the cultures of the two universities are very different, and no, you can't get all of the LDS benefits at the U that you can enjoy at the Y.

    Not once did I have a professor at BYU demean my religious beliefs. It happened frequently at the U.

    Not once did I have to tolerate drunken, disorderly fans at LES. It happens frequently at the RES.

    You can pretend that BYU's honor code is a "burden" for LDS athletes, but holding yourself to a higher standard is only a burden if you don't believe in the standards in the first place.

    As far as "better" football program, you have absolutely no evidence from the past two seasons that Utah has a better overall football program than BYU. Head-to-head doesn't prove anything if you have worse overall seasons.

  • ute4ever West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 10:12 a.m.

    @BlueCoug

    Buddy, if you can't take someone "demean" your faith then you are a weak, weak person. I've spent a lot of time on both campuses and I prefer Utah by leaps and bounds. If you prefer the group think scenery, then BYU is the place for you. You don't have to decide for yourself on anything...you just follow the crowd and you'll be ok. If you want to evaluate what YOU believe as a person, then Utah is the place for you. You can find any crowd you want to at Utah, be it good or bad, but you have to decide what you believe and stand for it. I appreciated the diversity and the chance to be challenged on my beliefs for the first time in my life (you won't get that at BYU, that is for sure).

    Maybe Gaius didn't want to go where everyone would think for him and decide what is best for him. Maybe he wanted a little bit of freedom to find his own path. Good choice and I can't wait to see him chasing down BYU quarterbacks soon.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 10:17 a.m.

    Bluecoug:

    Spoken by someone who really embraced "The Campus Is Our World." Looks like it still is.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 29, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    Wow, the spin cycle is in full gear. Who had the best team on Sept 15, 2012? Utah 24 - BYU 21. Simple math, simple concept 24 points > 21 points. That's a fact. Who had the best team at the end of the season? We will never know, but there's no doubt about one thing; Utah has score board in 2010, 2011 and 2012. BYU got a loss, all three times. There's the cue to shift the spin cycle into over drive.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Jan. 29, 2013 10:33 a.m.

    bdckpakccd
    Plano, TX
    The real story here is that BYU doesn't understand that Texas, and especially Euless Trinity, is the home of the best high school football in the country.

    OK, Plano boy, you might want to look at the last 10 years when Plano's nemesis, little Allen Texas up the street has been the best program in Texas. Euless is a storied program, no doubt, and a magnet for Polynesians, obviously. But arrogance is no substitute for good football.....

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 10:40 a.m.

    Wiscougarfan

    "Great pickup for the Utes. I would have loved to see him, and Levi, in Cougar blue but heading off to Utah is also great. As for comparing the two schools over the last two years... neither has done anything, so who cares? Let's wait until either team gets a quality win before we start crowing."

    Props for the the most logical, level-headed comment in this thread.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2013 10:44 a.m.

    TFUDD

    "Sorry to burst your bubble but when you don't beat a certain team it generally means your not better than that team."

    So, based on this bogus theory that Utah fans continue to cling to doggedly:

    Was Texas A&M, who beat Alabama 29-24, better than #1 Alabama?
    Was #7 Stanford better than #2 Oregon?
    Was BYU(8-5) better than #16 Utah State(11-2)?
    Was Colorado(3-10 better than Utah(8-5)?
    Was Wyoming(6-6) better than Utah(8-5)?
    Was UNLV(2-10) better than Utah(9-4)?

    If Utah wins the PAC 12 championship, plays in the Rose Bowl, finishes 11-3 and is ranked in the Top 10 next season, but loses to BYU, who finishes 9-4 and unranked, will Utah fans still claim that BYU was the better team because BYU won the head-to-head matchup?

    If none of the above is true, then why do Utah fans continue to completely defy logic when it comes to comparing BYU and Utah?

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Jan. 29, 2013 10:48 a.m.

    Obviously the desire to play in bowl games was not a determinant.....

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 29, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    @J-TX

    No, but obviously playing in the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl (best case) for his entire college career may have been a factor....

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 11:16 a.m.

    ute4ever

    "Buddy, if you can't take someone "demean" your faith then you are a weak, weak person."

    I never said I couldn't take it.

    I've been all over the country and to many, many countries world wide and heard much worse than I heard at Utah, but that still doesn't excuse religious bigotry at any institution of high learning.

    The "group think" that you speak of at BYU is a myth.

    Over 2/3's of BYU's students come from outside Utah and though most share the same religious beliefs, their opinions are very diverse. The majority of BYU students have been challenged about their religious beliefs for most of their lives.

    By comparison, 90% of Utah's students come from Utah and the majority commute from their homes in the Salt Lake Valley.

    Most of my extended family are Utah graduates and I believe that the U is a fine institution, but trying to claim that you can enjoy the same LDS experience at the U as at the Y is simply not true.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 11:17 a.m.

    Snack:

    Those are sure a lot of words to try, in vain, to explain away 3-in-a-row and 8-of-11.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 11:31 a.m.

    JohnInSLC

    Try to explain away:

    Top 25 Finishes
    Bronco 5
    Kyle 3

    Top 15 Finishes
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 1

    Conference Championships
    Bronco 2
    Kyle 1

    10-plus Win Seasons
    Bronco 5
    Kyle 3

    Bowl Games
    Bronco 8
    Kyle 7

    And please don't give us some lame excuse about strength of schedule; most of those achievements occurred while BYU and Utah were both members of the MWC.

    The hard reality that Utah fans simply aren't willing to accept is, as mediocre as BYU achievements may have been since going independent, they still exceed Utah's complete lack of any accomplishments as a member of the PAC 12.

    It's really quite humorous that Utah fans are forced to cling desperately to their BYU wins, since you've been such a miserable failure in everything you've done in the PAC 12.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 29, 2013 11:41 a.m.

    JohnInSLC

    Spin it however helps you sleep at night, but higher end of season ranking = better team.

    In 5 of the 8 seasons during the Bronco/Kyle era, BYU has finished higher than Utah in the final rankings.

    That's just the way it is.

    Coaches/AP/Sagarin
    2011 BYU #25/#26/#34 > Utah unranked/#39
    2012 BYU unranked/#26 > Utah unranked/#61

    ----------

    Congrats to Gaius Vaenuku on choosing a fine school; hope you enjoy your stay at Utah. Good luck on your mission.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    So Utah has 30 recruits. 2 of them are 4-star and 26 are 3-star.
    BYU has 27 recruits. 1 of them are 4-star and 11 are 3-star.

  • UoU 1991 Park City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 11:59 a.m.

    ute4ever

    It is true that you can find any crowd you want to at Utah, be it good or bad, and you do have to decide for yourself what you believe in and stand for, but it's also true that there are certain professors at the U who are downright hostile and antogonistic toward LDS beliefs.

    Gaius doesn't sound like he's interested in "exploring" who he is and not being "hindered" by others deciding for him. If that's your take on why he chose Utah, then you've obviously missed the point of why he was so excited about the LDS institute building.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 29, 2013 12:07 p.m.

    atl134

    Yet BYU will still end up playing in more bowl games and finishing higher in rankings than Utah.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 29, 2013 12:35 p.m.

    @atl134

    "So Utah has 30 recruits. 2 of them are 4-star and 26 are 3-star.
    BYU has... blah, blah, blah..."

    Why did Utah hang PAC 12 banners all over Salt Lake City, or so I've heard, if you're still so obsessed with BYU that you have to compare everything Utah does to BYU? Shouldn't you be more concerned with how your recruiting stacks up against other PAC 12 teams?

    For example,

    #8 USC - with only 13 recruits (all 4- and 5-star)
    #12 UCLA - 23
    #19 Washington - 21
    #22 Oregon - 16
    #28 California - 28
    #37 Arizona - 26
    #38 Stanford - 12
    #40 ASU - 26

    Utah isn't even in the Top 40, per ESPN.

    So what makes you think you'll ever be competitive in the PAC 12, when you continue to finish at the bottom of the PAC in recruiting?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 12:45 p.m.

    @Troytown
    "Why did Utah hang PAC 12 banners all over Salt Lake City, or so I've heard, if you're still so obsessed with BYU that you have to compare everything Utah does to BYU?"

    Heh, I'm actually a fan of the rivalry and would've preferred BYU get the invite to the PAC-12 instead of Colorado. I'm comparing the two because practically half the comments on this article are from BYU fans. Fact is comparing Utah recruiting from this year vs the previous years indicates an uptick in projected quality (not that that means anything until they play and either prove it or not), they used to be similar to BYU in that regard, but there's starting to be a separation.

  • EarlOfHemsley Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 12:44 p.m.

    I think its funny how the first three comments in here are about the actual article, and the rest is smack talk. It's so entertaining to read. :-)

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2013 12:49 p.m.

    @Uteanymous . When talking about BYU's schedule, I am mainly talking about the bottom 4 the last 2 years. Sure, you can speak of rankings and feelings of the top of the schedule. But if you go 2 and 6 in a tough games tough games then 4 and 0 against the bottom 4, then you still go bowling. That's my point, plain and simple. BYU played some tough teams the last two years. They also played Idaho, Idaho State, New Mexico State, Hawaii, Weber State and podunk State. NEXT year you can try to prove yourself. We will see.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    Jan. 29, 2013 12:49 p.m.

    Plano, TX
    The real story here is that BYU doesn't understand that Texas, and especially Euless Trinity, is the home of the best high school football in the country.

    Plano - you might want to check out a little program here in Concord CA called De La Salle High School. Then get back to me.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 12:56 p.m.

    Stop for a minute, BYU fans: Why are you all over this article on this obviously good young man who has chosen Utah over BYU? Man, your fan base has degenerated into a bunch of guys who sit around name-calling and bad mouthing your former rivals. And when you try to spin your data to say that BYU's record is better than the U's, come on! We've beaten you 3 years in a row, 8 out of the last 11, and overall 56-34-4.

    We own you guys. Deal with it.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 29, 2013 1:13 p.m.

    atl134

    "I'm comparing the two because practically half the comments on this article are from BYU fans."

    Nice spin, but the truth is, Utah fans were taking jabs at BYU before the first BYU fan had posted a comment.

    When was the last time you or any other Utah fan visited the blog of any other PAC 12 foe?

    It's obvious that Utah fans live in this constant state of denial, pretending that BYU is completely irrelevant, yet constantly obsessed with everything that is even remotely connected to BYU.

    Guaranteed, there will be 100 times more comments from Utah fans about BYU during 2014 and 2015, when BYU and Utah aren't even playing each other, than about any team in the PAC 12.

  • bdckpakccd Plano, TX
    Jan. 29, 2013 1:16 p.m.

    Tom in CA---No one said anything about CA, but it is accepted that Texas high school football is some of the best. Upwards of 30% of all NCAA football players played high school ball in TX. It IS the battle ground for recruiting. That's pretty undisputed. I'm sure you have a fine program----but the entire state is a perennial powerhouse in Texas. And yet BYU has the lion's share of their players from Utah----and their biggest dog, Bingham, was DISMANTLED by Euless Trinity. Plano lost to Trinity by 3 points in the 3rd round of the playoffs that year. That year our district was the 3rd toughest in the nation (and the top 2 were not from CA). Yet BYU didn't even LOOK at any of the kids from Plano. I knew almost every single player and there were very talented athletes that would be undeterred by the honor code---yet deafening silence from the Cougars. Our coaches have been SHOCKED by how they have just blown off some of the LDS kids to have gone through Plano. In football, you cannot ignore Texas and compete at the highest levels. Even ESPN agrees.

  • ute4ever West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 1:26 p.m.

    @BlueCoug

    Group Think in Provo is NOT a myth. I have experienced it time and time again. You are programed to think a certain way, have certain values, view situations the same. It is a huge machine that robotically programs people to think a certain way. I don't care if there are 180 countries represented by BYU, the professors, clubs, fraternaties, and everything about BYU is a huge group think exercise. If you don't believe me, just try putting an Obama/Biden sticker on your car and pull into a BYU parking lot. You will get stares like you just ran over someone's dog.

    At Utah you have people raised differently, with different moral compasses, with different opinions.

    I know for a fact there are people who go to Utah to avoid the Utah county group think. Maybe Gaius is one of them.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2013 1:43 p.m.

    gdog3finally

    It's true that BYU was forced to schedule some awful WAC teams to fill their 2011 and 2012 schedules in such a short time period after going independent, but it's also true that Bronco almost never loses to mediocre teams. There was a huge gap between the very good and the very bad teams BYU played, but that doesn't prove that BYU couldn't have gone 4-0 against teams somewhere in the middle, like Georgia Tech.

    Despite playing a "PAC 12 schedule", Utah also played its share of bad teams the last two years - Colorado(3-10; 1-11), WSU(4-8; 3-9), OSU(3-9), Cali(3-9), No Colo, Montana State), but unlike BYU, Utah didn't win all of those games.

    In2012, BYU lost 4 games (3 of them to Top 25 teams) by a total of 13 points, all on the road, and only lost one game all season by a touchdown or more, proving that even with an extremely mediocre offense, BYU was within striking distance of finishing 12-1.

    All 7 of Utah's losses were by a touchdown or more.

    BYU finished #26 in Sagarin; Utah finished #61. Not even close.

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2013 1:55 p.m.

    gored

    You own NOTHING!

    National Championships
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    Heisman Trophies
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    National Individual Award Winners
    BYU 15
    Utah 0

    Players Inducted into the National College Football Hall of Fame
    BYU 6
    Utah 0

    AP/Coaches Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 17
    Utah 5

    Conference Championships during the last half century
    BYU 23
    Utah 6

    Head-to-head during the last half century
    BYU 29
    Utah 21

    Utah's leather-helmet era "glory" days are ancient history, and even then, Utah did absolutely nothing on a national scale.

    And now, Utah's flash-in-the-pan break through years of 2004 and 2008 are quickly fading.

    The Utes have been in steady decline since 2008.

    Being a whipping boy for the PAC 12 is nothing to beat your chest about, although Colorado and Wauzoo certainly appreciate the company.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 29, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    @Uteanymous

    "BYU was within striking distance of finishing 12-1."
    ----------
    Congrats for the biggest spin of the week. Nicely done.
    I don't think it's possible to top that one!

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2013 2:04 p.m.

    ute4ever

    @BlueCoug

    "Group Think in Provo is NOT a myth. I have experienced it time and time again. You are programed to think a certain way, have certain values, view situations the same. It is a huge machine that robotically programs people to think a certain way. I don't care if there are 180 countries represented by BYU, the professors, clubs, fraternaties, and everything about BYU is a huge group think exercise. If you don't believe me, just try putting an Obama/Biden sticker on your car and pull into a BYU parking lot. You will get stares like you just ran over someone's dog.

    At Utah you have people raised differently, with different moral compasses, with different opinions."

    LOL!

    It's quite obvious that you've bought into a stereotype and don't have a clue what you're talking about. I have some very good friends who are avid BYU fans, yet their families have been die-hard Democrats for several generations.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2013 2:06 p.m.

    @ Swoopy

    "And BYU is what?"

    "Better than U!

    2011 - BYU(10-3) Ranked > Utah(8-5) unranked
    2012 - BYU(8-5) Bowl Winner > Utah(5-7) no bowl"

    Let me get this straight! According to BYU logic:

    BYU is better than Utah because they had a better record which includes beating up on cupcakes (which made up half their schedule) and lost to all their tough opponents.

    Utah on the other hand had a worse record because they played quality conference opponents which makes up most of their schedule.

    Yet, Utah still beats BYU head to head for the third straight year and 8 out of the last 11 years. But that loss doesn't matter to Y'ners because they had a better record than Utah. So in their minds they're better!

    Wow! That logic makes no sense!

    But this logic does:

    Utah was better than BYU because they beat the Cougies last year head to head. So that means we're better than you last year, and the year before, and the year before that!

  • esodije ALBUQUERQUE, NM
    Jan. 29, 2013 2:32 p.m.

    I'm a Cougs fan, but I remember the single biggest impediment to my serving a church mission was the "mission prep" priesthood-meeting class I had to attend during my freshman year at the Y (which was taught by three Grant Von Harrison disciples, one of whom was the son of a GA). It was so off-putting that it took me six additional months, and a big pep talk from my stake president at home (who assured me I could be myself and still be a good missionary), before I submitted my application.

    On a lighter note, I'm reminded of the old joke about the BYU football fan who asked the Utah fan in front of him to sit down, saying, "You're blocking my vision!" To which the Utah fan replied, "Sorry, I didn't know you were having one."

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Jan. 29, 2013 2:33 p.m.

    Welcome home Gaius!!! You picked the right school! Great play with the hats on T.V - hilarious!!

    Go Utes!

    Love those kitty trolls!!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Jan. 29, 2013 2:38 p.m.

    Wiscougar fan - words to live by. Thanks for being an objective fan, we need more like you.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 2:37 p.m.

    midmajor, swoop(really, was "cosmo" busy?), troy, et al:

    Lots and lots more words don't erase 3-in-a-row and 8-of-11 from the scoreboard.

    But thanks for playing. Your consolation prize is another late-November, late-night home game against Idaho State to try to get bowl-eligible.

  • Christy B Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    fuddyduddy

    "BYU is better than Utah because they had a better record which includes... blah, blah, blah"

    No, BYU is better than Utah because BYU beat the 16th ranked WAC champion, BYU beat an ACC division champion (on the road), and BYU beat a MWC co-champion in a bowl game, which FAR exceeds anything Utah did in 2012.

    Just as in 5 of the last 8 seasons, BYU finished higher in the rankings than Utah.

    In 2012, it wasn't even close!

    BYU #26
    Utah #61

    Sorry to disappoint you, but there aren't any trophies awarded for playing a tougher SOS.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Jan. 29, 2013 3:06 p.m.

    All the trollers are just still angry that they only have one home game after Halloween, and that's against the Bengals - the Idaho State Bengals!! That's in addition to the horrible 2013 recruiting class!!! Ain't irrelevance grand?

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 3:10 p.m.

    "No, BYU is better than Utah because . . . [fill in tortured logic here]"

    Christy:

    Reading some of these "explanations" from the cougies makes one wonder: If the Y is so much better why they couldn't they beat the Utes on the field the last 3 years, and could only win 3 nail-biters in the last 11 years?

    Of course, I realize I'm just inviting more inane explanations [Riley was hurt, Roscoe and Doman are lousy coaches, Heaps had a hangnail, Max ("Kruger Is Still Open") Hall is color-blind, ad nauseum), but they ARE quite entertaining.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Jan. 29, 2013 3:43 p.m.

    I want to weigh-in on the whole "group think" criticism of BYU. As a BYU alum I definitely agree that there are many like-minded persons living and teaching in Provo. However, making a sweeping generalization that students are taught to think in the same way and value exactly the same things is ridiculous. BYU is very unique given the spiritual nature of the university and the accompanying culture (praying in class, honor code, mandate to attend a church, etc.). Having taught at a Big 10 school (and in it's institute program) I can understand why someone (like Vaenuku) might want to attend a public university with a strong spiritual component (e.g. institute), but that doesn't make BYU a brain washing machine.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 3:45 p.m.

    @midpac/ducky/bluto/whatever

    In response to your post, again, we OWN YOU.

    You insult our overall record over you, implying that it's old, yet you turn around and give a bunch of meaningless, irrelevant individual stats from 30 years ago as if that validates your position.

    2004 and 2008 is current, and 2 undefeated seasons during the BCS era is a great accomplishment. Where has BYU been during this time, besides beating up on lower-tier WAC teams and getting pummeled by the good teams?

    You say "The Utes have been in a steady decline since 2008." Haha! During that time Utah has beaten your BYU team 4 out of 5 times. What does that say for BYU?

    Come on, surely you can do better than that.

  • Christine B. Hedgefog Meridian, ID
    Jan. 29, 2013 3:58 p.m.

    Unfortunate that Kyle W. will probably be history at the U before he gets to see the fruits of this recruit. After 3 consecutive years competing with Wazzu for PAC basement squatting rights and 2 years in a row spending December at home watching bowl games I'm betting Ute fans will have had enough and start calling for Boylen's, er I mean Whittingham's head.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 4:06 p.m.

    VegasUte

    "All the trollers are just still angry that they only have one home game after Halloween, and that's against the Bengals - the Idaho State Bengals!!"

    LOL!

    Is that the best you can come up with?

    While BYU fans are home watching games at Notre Dame, Wisconsin, and Nevada, Utah fans will be freezing their behinds off in RES watching ASU and Colorado (yeah, that's a season finale to look forward to every season, LOL!)

    Meanwhile, BYU fans can look forward to attending games against Texas, Utah, Ga Tech and Boise State in September and October while the weather is still nice.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 4:17 p.m.

    gored

    Utah's overall record over BYU was compiled almost entirely during the period when football was little more than a club sport at BYU. 30 of the first 40 games in the series were played at Utah, because BYU didn't even have a football field of their own for many of those years.

    It's not just that most of Utah's wins came over half a century ago, it was that Utah had absolutely no accomplishments of any kind on a national scale during their entire history from 1892 to 1962. Utah was nothing more than a mediocre team beating up on even more mediocre teams in conferences that don't even exist today.

    It's a proven FACT that Utah has been in steady decline since 2008.

    2008 13-0 #2/#4
    2009 10-3 #18/#18
    2010 10-3 unranked/#23
    2011 8-5 unranked
    2012 5-7 no bowl

    If you're having a hard time grasping the concept of steady decline, have your math teacher graph Utah's record for you - maybe that will help you see what steady decline looks like.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Jan. 29, 2013 4:53 p.m.

    Little kitty trollers making fun of Utah's recruiting class, when their own is so far beneath ours, is hilarious. It would be like Max Hall making fun of Alex Smith because he only won six games as a starter this year!!

    Go Utes!

  • Go Utes Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 5:34 p.m.

    @ BlueCoug 9:59 a.m.

    I find your post very amusing. Looks like I struck a tender nerve!

    Depsite your personal anecdotes, you have no evidence of what you are saying. I have been to games in Lavel stadium and have certainly been bothered by drinking (BYU) fans. Sure, there may be less, but you said you have never seen. I have. I have seen a hot dog hurled into the U fan section. I have seen a lot. Unlike you, I will not claim that it never happens at LES.

    I attended the U for two degrees and not once did I ever hear a professor demean the church. Does that mean it does not happen? I don't know, but unlike you, I am not going to claim that based on my own experience I know what goes on everywhere. All I can say is, my faith grew while at the U.

    Lastly, you assume that I think that the honor code at BYU is the "burden" to which I referred. Not at all. The burden I see is primarily the arrogance culture. I lived by all church standards while at the U, by my own choice.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 5:44 p.m.

    The Y was also heavily recruiting Mr. Vaenuku! Luckily for Utah the decision did not rest solely on "football" considerations but the Institute program at the U was a deciding factor!

  • fred Vaenuku san mateo, ca
    Jan. 29, 2013 8:00 p.m.

    I'm very proud of my nephew. I[m more a BYU fan but now I'm going to go for Utah. More important I'm happy he will be serving a mission and thats more important to me than football even though I love the game. I believe he will be a better player when he return home from his mission. A mission teaches you discipline and values which it will help him. Go Keio!!!

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 8:47 p.m.

    @ Snack PAC 10:44 a.m. Jan. 29, 2013

    In order for that scenario to occur, byu has to beat the U.

    Until it happens, your hypothetical is null & void.

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 8:51 p.m.

    to atl134 on 1/29

    Even more convincing, look at NFL rosters... SF, Baltimore, Carolina, & Miami for starters.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:34 p.m.

    @BlueCoug

    As far as "better" football program, you have absolutely no evidence from the past two seasons that Utah has a better overall football program than BYU. Head-to-head doesn't prove anything if you have worse overall seasons.

    -----------

    Last 2 seasons...

    vs. BCS Teams:
    Utah 9-11 (1-4 against final ranked teams)
    BYU 4-6 (1-5 against final ranked teams)

    vs. Other Teams:
    Utah 4-1
    BYU 14-2

    Pretty even, the difference head to head Utah owns BYU: 2-0 (8 of last 11). Ask the NFL who has the better players.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:45 p.m.

    Christy B

    Sorry to disappoint you, but there aren't any trophies awarded for playing a tougher SOS.

    ----------

    True, but I rather go 8-5 playing in the PAC-12 then go 10-3 playing a WAC-lite schedule. I think TCU fans will agree:

    2011 TCU SOS #82 finished #14 11-2

    2012 TCU SOS #16 finished 7-6

    Don't worry one day BYU fans will understand what playing a "real" schedule feels like.

  • Just Smiling BOUNTIFUL, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 9:53 p.m.

    WOW!!!! Jabari Parker and now Gaius Vaenuku...It looks like Campus Institute of Religion Program - 2 BYU- 0. Looks like LDS athletes are seeing you can have your cake and eat it too! Play for a PAC-12 team, beat BYU consistently and have a powerful religious influence all in the same bite. No wonder there are 23 rm's on the U football team. Keep on coming and the U will give you the whole experience along with diversity. Wow- that would prepare you even more for a missionary experience!!!!

  • Wireless Lawyer Lehi, UT
    Jan. 29, 2013 10:10 p.m.

    Best wishes to this young man. He appears level headed and well-grounded. I hope he finds success on and off the field.

    Reading the comments about the difference between the Y and the U is always interesting, if not always enlightening. Having attended both schools, there clearly are some differences, but I enjoyed my experience at both. I find most of the time folks find what they're looking for wherever they go. If they're looking for problems they find them, looking for controversy they find it, looking for happinesss they find that as well.

    I had no trouble finding the good on both campuses. There was plenty of it in Provo and on the hill.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    Jan. 29, 2013 10:21 p.m.

    Uteology

    "I rather go 8-5 playing in the PAC-12 then go 10-3 playing a WAC-lite schedule."

    And I suppose you'd rather play a tougher schedule and stay home for the holidays than go bowling.

    LOL!

    It's laughable that you throw records against ranked teams out there as a badge of honor, yet completely ignore the fact that of the two teams, BYU was the only team to actually finish in the Top 25 in 2011 and was the only team to actually beat a ranked team in 2012.

    2011 BYU #25/#26/#34 > Utah unranked #39 (in Sagarin)
    2012 BYU unranked/#26 bowl winner > Utah unranked/#61 bowl no show

    Utah's SOS and record are already calculated into the final rankings, so as much as you desperately want to spin the results because the rankings don't support your own biased opinion, no double-dipping allowed.

    What's the point of bringing TCU into the discussion? The exact same formula was used for the Horned Frogs.

    Bottom line: BYU's record against BYU's schedule was more impressive than Utah's record against Utah's schedule in both 2011 and 2012.

    That's just the way it is. Live with it!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2013 10:59 p.m.

    @mussingaround

    Let me explain:

    TCU with a #82 SOS finished #14 in the MWC.... in Big 12 they went 7-6 with a much tougher SOS.

    Utah went 33-6 in the last three years in the MWC... in the PAC-12 we are 13-12.

    Now given the fact that both TCU and Utah:

    A) OWN BYU on the field
    B) Have better talent according to the NFL draft

    What makes you think BYU with a "real" schedule would do any better?

    Congrats on the accomplishments, but BYU isn't even in the same league playing a WAC-lite schedule.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 29, 2013 11:29 p.m.

    Uteology

    No explanation necessary; we all understand how records and SOS are used in calculating final rankings.

    Despite your frantic spamming of irrelevant "facts", BYU finished ahead of Utah in the final rankings in 5 of the last 8 years.

    Instead of basing the success of your entire season on one game, maybe you should try beating a conference opponent with a winning record.

    btw, Utah was 0-1 against the WAC last season. You're lucky you didn't play a WAC-lite schedule in 2012 - at 2-2, with losses to Utah State and San Jose State, you wouldn't have fared much better than you did in the PAC 12.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 30, 2013 2:21 a.m.

    @Uteanymous

    Have you ever noticed that if you, Duckhunter, and others find comments I make about BYU sports to be unfavorable to you, then I get personal criticism in return. Suddenly I live in a "crimson bubble, I am jealous, and I have indignant meltdowns" ect...

    My comments are NEVER riddled with attacks. If you can't stand differing opinions and can't disagree respectfully, then maybe the labels given me are more suitable to the pot calling the kettle black.

    To see only Utah fans as hypocritical is justified inductive reasoning. It's not healthy and even if you don't respect me, I will still try and warn you that hate is a cancer that eats away at your soul.

    Both fan bases have a small percentage of those walking the extreme edge of dogmaticism. Let's decrease those odds within ourselves eh? For every Ute fan predicting Rose Bowls, there are Cougar fans thinking Cosmo at QB would have had your defense undefeated.

    You can 'Rise and Shout' and still rise above it as well. Okay that was goofy.

  • bdckpakccd Plano, TX
    Jan. 30, 2013 8:26 a.m.

    J-TX---I never said anything about Allen. They are a great team and have a beautiful new stadium. Our game against you this season was one of the best I've seen in a long time. Sooooo exciting and the best team did win, albeit by one point. Please understand I was quoting Plano's record over the last 50 years. They're not ALWAYS good, but usually. I only say this because every other college in the country pays attention to our program because of that record----except BYU. I only know about recruiters in Plano because of my involvement with the program. I would hazard a guess that they aren't anymore diligent in Allen than they are in Plano, but I can't say for certain.

    And bringing Allen into the discussion adds to the point---our district is overflowing with good teams. And that's only ONE district. The state of Texas is gushing with them. And yet BYU doesn't actively cultivate relationships in Texas. WHY NOT??? Every other team does!

    And congrats to Allen's State Championship this year!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 8:40 a.m.

    @bdckpakccd from Plano Texas

    Regarding Texas recruiting and BYU?
    That is all going to change with Anae in charge.
    He knows Texas well.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 9:35 a.m.

    He's in for a rude awakening with the U's Professors and the Utah fans.
    He'll need the sanctuary which the Institute will provide to him.

    Utah is the only school in the Nation which does not honor it's founder with either a plaque or a statue. Why?

  • reasonableUTE Provo, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 9:57 a.m.

    ya'll can throw around SOS and sagarin rankings all you want... The only real way to measure who is better is by competing against each other on the field. We all know how that has turned out recently. BYU fans... It is quite clear that Utah is a better football team than BYU.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 30, 2013 10:33 a.m.

    gdog3finally

    "Have you ever noticed that if you, Duckhunter, and others find comments I make about BYU sports to be unfavorable to you, then I get personal criticism in return."

    Not that I don't sometimes characterize some comments as "biased", but where in my response to your comments did I criticize you personally?

    BYU was forced to play some pretty weak WAC teams in order to fill their schedule on short notice, but Utah has also played a bunch of pretty weak teams during the last two seasons.

    More carefully scrutinizing the BYU and Utah schedules from 2012 shows that BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams; Utah only TWO. BYU played FIVE patsies, but Utah played FOUR.

    The argument that Utah's worse 5-7 record is mainly a product of Utah playing a MUCH tougher schedule simply isn't true. Sure, you can argue that Utah's average SOS is a little tougher than BYU's, but, which team has the better chance of winning two games, the team that plays a Top 25 and a Bottom 25 opponent, or the team that plays two teams ranked somewhere in the middle?

    Utah 2012 simply wasn't as good as BYU overall.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 30, 2013 11:03 a.m.

    unreasonableUte

    "ya'll can throw around SOS and sagarin rankings all you want... The only real way to measure who is better is by competing against each other on the field."

    The problem with your pronouncement is Utah fans don't even believe it, except when the circumstances conveniently favor Utah.

    Here's proof. Answer the following question honestly:

    Which of the following is true?

    1. Texas A&M was better than National Champion Alabama in 2012.
    2. Colorado(3-10) was better than Utah(8-5) in 2011.
    3. UNLV(2-10) was better than Utah(9-4) in 2007.
    4. New Mexico(6-7) was better than Utah(8-5) in 2006.
    5. SDSU(5-7) was better than Utah(7-5) in 2005.
    6. Texas A&M(4-8) was better than Utah(10-2) in 2003.
    7. BYU(2-5) was better than Conference Champion Utah(6-2) in 1942.

    The evidence is overwhelming and is reflected in the polls and in the national rankings that one single head-to-head game during an entire season doesn't prove which team is better.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    Jan. 30, 2013 11:33 a.m.

    FAX man

    You're using way too much logic. Just let them believe in their own little fantasy. It's the only thing they have to cling to since becoming a "big boy".

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 30, 2013 11:48 a.m.

    Just the Fiction

    On that day, the team that won was better. Were they better at the end of the season? Maybe, maybe not, but we will never know unless they play each other again. It's really a simple concept/fact; unless you are trying to defend a loss.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    Jan. 30, 2013 12:59 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "On that day, the team that won was better."

    Or luckier!

    "Were they better at the end of the season?"

    I'll let you answer your own question, by answering the question posed by Just the FAX.

    Which of the following is true?

    1. Texas A&M was better than National Champion Alabama in 2012.
    2. Colorado(3-10) was better than Utah(8-5) in 2011.
    3. UNLV(2-10) was better than Utah(9-4) in 2007.
    4. New Mexico(6-7) was better than Utah(8-5) in 2006.
    5. SDSU(5-7) was better than Utah(7-5) in 2005.
    6. Texas A&M(4-8) was better than Utah(10-2) in 2003.
    7. BYU(2-5) was better than Conference Champion Utah(6-2) in 1942.

    If you can truthfully answer that all 7 examples are true, without any qualifiers, then I'll buy your argument that the results of one game definitively proves which team is better.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 1:31 p.m.

    @gdog

    Please show evidence of this "personal criticism" you have received from me? Is it that I have pointed out your, and most of the other utah "fans" around here, hypocrisy?

    I like having you post, I like having christina b post, I like having naval lint, howie s, stg, and all of the other utah "fans" around here post. You see for me this is fun and entertainment and that is the difference between us. You take this stuff seriously and get offended and indignant when anyone says anything less than delusionally positive about utah. I actually enjoy it when you guys say things about BYU because it is fun to expose you and mock you for saying it and in the end I don't care at all what you guys actually think about BYU, it's just fun for me to respond.

    And that is the difference, I don't care what you think, you get offended by what we think and take it as a personal insult. And to me that shows the difference between the 2 fanbases, if you are confident in the accomplishments of your school it doesn't matter what someone else says.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 30, 2013 2:12 p.m.

    @messyguy

    Right off the bat, Texas A&M was better then Bama. They beat them at there house, late in the season. So I guess when BYU beat Utah State it was "Lucky". On that day, the team that won was better: Fact! Who was better at the end of the season? Opinion, subjective. You may want to google those words, since this is a tough concept for you and many other Cougs to grasp. I guess anything but give the other team credit; or admit defeat. What a sad and pathetic concept.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 30, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    In my opinion, Utah was better than Arizona, UCLA and Utah State. In fact they were not, they lost to all three and I give those teams credit. BYU fan thinks BYU was better than Utah, Boise State, Notre Dame and SJSU. In fact, they were not, they lost to all of those teams. There in lies the difference, I can man up and admit defeat and credit my opponent when I lose. BYU fan can only spin the truth and think they were better. What an awesome concept for BYU fan. They win, even when they lose. Nice!

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 3:05 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "Texas A&M was better then [sic] Bama."

    Really, so all of the Coaches and Sportswriters who voted Alabama #1 and Texas A&M #5 were wrong, as well as the supposedly infallible "bcs" rankings, which didn't include Texas A&M in the Top 2?

    Proceeding down the list:

    2. Colorado(3-10) was better than Utah(8-5) in 2011. FACT
    3. UNLV(2-10) was better than Utah(9-4) in 2007. FACT
    4. New Mexico(6-7) was better than Utah(8-5) in 2006. FACT
    5. SDSU(5-7) was better than Utah(7-5) in 2005. FACT
    6. Texas A&M(4-8) was better than Utah(10-2) in 2003. FACT
    7. BYU(2-5) was better than Conference Champion Utah(6-2) in 1942. FACT

    I wonder how UNLV feels about the Utes stealing their spot in the 2007 Poinsettia Bowl, since the Rebels were BETTER than the Utes. Since Utah wasn't even as good as a 2-10 team, should Utah's win over Navy still count, since the Utes obviously didn't deserve to be there?

    It'll be a dark day in Uteville when Utah loses to BYU in September.

  • UoU 1991 Park City, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 3:08 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Sorry to interrupt the spin cycle, but

    BETTER season = BETTER team

    It's a simple concept that every fan should understand.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 3:24 p.m.

    spokane ute

    "In my opinion, Utah was better than Arizona, UCLA and Utah State. In fact they were not, they lost to all three and I give those teams credit."

    Your opinion isn't the issue here.

    unranked/#44 Arizona(8-5),
    unranked/#31 UCLA(9-5), and
    #16/#17/#19 Utah State(11-2)

    all finished with better records and higher rankings than

    unranked/#61 Utah(5-7),

    validating their wins over Utah and proving that they were BETTER than Utah.

    There's not any need for you to give those teams credit for being better, the final rankings prove that they were better.

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 4:12 p.m.

    Hi Fred Vaenuku. I served an LDS mission in Germany and had the privelage of meeting some awesom American Polyneseans there who were serving in the military. I had great experiences at the U and I loved the institute there. I hope your nephew's experiences will be as great as mine were.

    Go Cougars and go Utes!

  • TFUDD SLC, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 5:00 p.m.

    @Backpacn and UofU 1991

    Better season = better team? As a Utah fan i will admit defeat when we lose. When BYU beats Utah i understand that they are the better team. The final overall record doesn't tell us who the better team is. We could go into the whole "cupcake" games thing but that'd be pointless because every BYU fan in Provo would start posting stats. The better season and the better team is not the same thing.

    I guarantee that if BYU wins next year but Utah has a better overall season than you would be saying the same thing that i'm saying now. The head-to-head competition is the deciding factor. Pull your heads out and stop crying about statistics.

    If Utah were to win the National Championship next year(which it won't, I'm not that dumb) but lost one game to BYU, then you would all claim to be the better team. All you arguing right now would claim that BYU won the head to head matchup and was better.

  • TFUDD SLC, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 5:08 p.m.

    @UTAH HATERS

    So let us say that UTAH wins the BCS National Championship next year(which unfortunately for me probably won't happen) but they lose one game to BYU in the process. I'm willing to bet that most BYU fans would say that they were the better team. Better overall record doesn't always mean the better team. I would argue that BYU was the better team for that game and that we lost. I'm probably going to get some grief from fellow Utah fans but the head to head matchup is everything. I can't believe your all throwing it out like garbage. Why do you think they even play in the first place? To see who isn't the better team? That's the whole purpose of sports in general to see who is the better team when they play each other.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 5:14 p.m.

    @spokane ute

    The only one of those teams I've seen any BYU fan claim BYU was better than is utah, and I agree, I think overall BYU was better than utah this past season, but utah had a better game the day they played. I most certainly don't, and have never see another BYU fan claim, that BYU was better than notre dame. I think BYU and boise were about equal and I think BYU and sjsu were about equal, they beat BYU so they get the edge. I also think BYU and usu were about equal and even though BYU beat them I give usu the edge because they had the better overall season. And I think the vast majority of BYU fans agree with me on every single one of those evaluations.

    It is only utah "fans" that cling to a single game as the be all tell all of a season and it is interesting that the one game they cling to in an attempt to define their season is the BYU game. So in that case congratulations on a great season.

    LOL!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Jan. 30, 2013 5:16 p.m.

    @ Spin Machine:

    "While BYU fans are home watching games.."

    That's the best YOU can come up with? LOL. Kitty trollers are hilarious!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Jan. 30, 2013 5:23 p.m.

    Welcome aboard fred Vaenuku! We are really looking forward to have your nephew dominate on the field as a Ute. We look forward to a long a prosperous relationship with Gaius.

  • Mount Olympus Salt Lake, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 8:38 p.m.

    Vaenuku, you made the right choice.

    If you want to play football in the state of Utah and make the NFL, go to the U of U.

    In the last 5 years:
    Utah players drafted: 13
    BYU players drafted: 4

    In the last 10 years:
    Utah players drafted: 25
    BYU players drafted: 12

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 9:17 p.m.

    Vaenuku, you may want to reconsider

    Players who had never donned a pair of shoulder pads before coming to the program, but were developed into a first-round draft pick by the program

    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    Super Bowl MVPs
    BYU 2
    Utah 0

    National College Football Hall of Fame Players
    BYU 6
    Utah 0

    Heisman Trophy Winners
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    National Individual Award Winners
    BYU 15
    Utah 0

    #1 Draft Picks who have lead their team to only ONE playoff win in 8 Seasons
    BYU 0
    Utah 1

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 9:40 p.m.

    TFUDD

    You honestly expect us to believe that the majority of Utah fans actually believe that Colorado(3-10) was better than Utah(8-5) last year?

    I'd love to see what the actual survey results would be if the D-News asked a 1000 Utah season tickets holders "Who was better last season, Utah or Colorado?"

    Frankly, I doubt you even believe that silliness yourself.

  • agarrett PROVO, UT
    Jan. 30, 2013 11:50 p.m.

    Glad to see the Utes picked up an LDS recruit. BYU picks up non-LDS recruits all the time, but you don't see us BYU fans jumping all over the Ute fans going "Oh what now! We stole one away from U!" Big whoop.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 31, 2013 2:48 a.m.

    Little Brother Y, a few things:

    1. The NFL draft has not happened yet, so it's impossible to say BYU "developed" anyone into a first-round draft pick this year.

    2. There is plenty of proof that Vaenuku indeed HAS donned a pair of shoulder pads in his life, so why would that matter in the first place?

    3. A purely defensive player has never won, and in all likelihood will never win, the Heisman trophy, so that has no relation to Vaenuku either.

    That is a very feeble attempt at discrediting the U's history of great football players.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 31, 2013 8:26 a.m.

    I love the reference to the 1942 game; that's awesome. I guess we can agree to disagree. From my stand point, the team that wins the game, on the field, was the better team; certainly on that day. I know that's a crazy concept for many. If you want to believe that the best team is decided by vote; so be it. Let's say next year BYU beats Utah, but finishes 6-6; while Utah goes 7-5. I guess per your criteria, Utah would have the better team? No way would a BYU fan ever take that position. I guess what ever fits your agenda. If that happens, I will come on here and say BYU had the better team. I guess that's the difference between myself and others, I can give credit where credit is due; as opposed to spinning the facts and stats to fit my agenda.

    @ Lone Star
    Who said Colorado had a better team than Utah last year? Your reference is from 2 years ago, and on that day they had a better team. They beat us fair and square.

  • royalblue Alpine, UT
    Jan. 31, 2013 8:46 a.m.

    StGtoSLC

    1. Is a given

    2. The point isn't whether Vaenuku has donned a pair of shoulder pads, or not, the point is the vast improvement in players who have gone through the BYU program - from no experience to first round NFL draft pick (Ziggy); from walkon, no stars, to Super Bowl starter (Pitta)

    3. A purely defensive has never won the Heisman, but having a Heisman Trophy winner, as well as numerous other national individual award winners, shows the calibre of players coming out of the BYU football program - Heisman, Doak Walker, Sammy Baugh, Outland, Davey O'Brien award winners

    Utah has NEVER had a single national individual award winner or national college football hall of fame player

    Utah has had some great football players, but Utah has never had the nation's best "fill in the blank"

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 31, 2013 10:17 a.m.

    @ Royal Blue

    I guess the BEAR BRYANT AWARD is meaningless.....sheeesh! At least get your facts straight prior to posting!

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 31, 2013 11:26 a.m.

    royalblue, "the nation's best 'fill in the blank'" is a purely subjective matter. Utah has had the nation's best pro prospect according to 2005 NFL draft experts and the San Francisco 49ers. Utah had the nation's best offensive lineman according to 2003 NFL draft experts and the Carolina Panthers. If you're calling "givens," Utah has the nation's best defensive lineman and possibly overall pro prospect this year. That's a lot more recent and a lot more pertinent to this individual. Cherry-picking stats is hardly reason enough for telling a young man he made the wrong decision in the college he wants to attend, especially when the only recent stat they can bring up is almost too obscure to comprehend.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 31, 2013 12:33 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "I guess the BEAR BRYANT AWARD is meaningless..."

    The Bear Bryant Award isn't a player award.

    StGtoSLC

    "the nation's best 'fill in the blank'" is a purely subjective matter"

    As is pretty much EVERY award in major college football, including who gets to play in the BCS championship game and who gets selected as at-large teams for BCS bowls, so what's your point?

    That still doesn't change the fact that BYU players have been so highly regarded nationally, that 15 such awards have been awarded to BYU players versus 0 for Utah players, and 6 BYU players have been inducted into the National College Football Hall of Fame, again versus 0 Utah players.

    NFL draft picks are just as "subjective". Aaron Rogers has turned out to be a MUCH better NFL QB than Alex Smith.

    As far as relevancy goes, there's absolutely no proof that playing for Utah will give Vaenuku any better chance of playing in the NFL than playing for BYU.

    If he's good enough to play in the NFL, it doesn't matter if he plays at podunk u, NFL scouts will find him.

  • CA. reader Rocklin, CA
    Jan. 31, 2013 12:44 p.m.

    I predict that this young man will redshirt next season, go on a mission and then, seeing the error of his ways, will transfer to BYU.

    I don't really believe that but the temptation was too much to overcome!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 31, 2013 12:55 p.m.

    Just the Fiction

    Who said anything about player awards? Per Royal Blue "Utah has NEVER had a single national individual award winner or national college football hall of fame player". Coach Whittingham is certainly an "individual". But let's talk about current individual awards, shall we? Star Lotuleiei is a 2012 first team all american. Funny, I don't see any BYU players on the first team? Thanks for your input Mr. Helper!

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    Jan. 31, 2013 3:42 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "Who said anything about player awards?"

    The discussion was about developing players, not coaches.

    Regardless, you missed the most salient point of Just the FAX's comments:

    "If he's [Vaenuku] good enough to play in the NFL, it doesn't matter if he plays at podunk u, NFL scouts will find him."

    You have absolutely no proof that playing for Utah will enhance Vaenuku's NFL chances any more than playing for BYU or anybody else.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 31, 2013 3:52 p.m.

    @Y's little brother: Vaenuku, you may want to reconsider. Players who had never donned a pair of shoulder pads before coming to the program, but were developed into a first-round draft pick by the program

    -----------------

    Ansah would have been drafted playing at Weber State since he played ONLY one year at BYU:

    "Entered his senior season with zero career starts and just 10 total tackles." "STRENGTHS: Rare combination of size, athleticism and natural power."

    "#1 Draft Picks who have lead their team to only ONE playoff win in 8 Seasons"

    That's a Ducky like comment, better luck next time. More legit comment would be:

    #1 Draft Pick who lead is team to an NFC championship game after 7 years on an inept team with 4 different coaching staffs.

    Similar to what Steve Young did his first 8 years. Who went from being a bust at Tampa Bay, to being benched for Steve Bono, to a Super Bowl MVP.

    The awards you listed were for players developed under Edwards and Chow, Vaenuku might as well join Chow at Hawaii because the fact is Broncos and Co. do a better job of developing fireside talent than NFL talent.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 31, 2013 4:33 p.m.

    @Soloman Levi

    Understood. I did take the comment some what out of context. Both schools have produced all americans, and NFL talent. Heck, the Seahawks have a starting guard from Weber State. Utah does have more players currently in the NFL though. I have beat this thread to death. Have a good evening Mr. Levi.....later!

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2013 5:23 p.m.

    Uteology

    You're ignoring the fact that it was BYU coaches who saw in Ziggy the potential to play football; it was Bronco who gave him a chance to be on the team; and it was BYU coaches who carefully shepherded Ziggy through the fundamentals and intricacies of the game until he was ready to step onto the field. It's an undeniable fact, that without BYU, Ziggy would not be playing in the NFL next season.

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 12:18 p.m.

    @ Yning little brother

    "Vaenuku, you may want to reconsider because we had that one good qb a long time ago who wasn't nearly as good as Alex Smith in the pros and then we have this other player who is going to the NFL this year.. blah blah blah"

    Not that BYU was in his final two choices, but to humor the Yners: if we set aside pac 12 affiliation, and which program is clearly producing more NFL talent, he's probably just looking at which team has dominated the other for the past decade (3 in a row, 8 out of the last 11). It's why you're obsessed with us and desperately spinning facts on articles about recruits who have already chosen our program over yours :)

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 1, 2013 6:41 p.m.

    I believe most BYU fans love BYU for the morals and principles it represents. The smaller percentage of BYU fans who act in opposition to what BYU stands for in order to proclaim their fandom and everyone else's folly are the ones who hurt BYU's reputation and missionary aspirations.

    When the bird hunters (so to speak) of the world place such emphasis on pointing out Ute hypocrisy, they ironically often forget the hypocrisy of representing BYU outside of the parameters that the church and most BYU fans positively represent.