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BYU men's basketball: Cougars survive scare from San Francisco, 80-76

Point guard Carlino scores 22, helps BYU come back late

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  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 5, 2013 11:37 p.m.

    After a nail-biting game, we are grateful for a win on the road! Way to rally from behind, Cougars. Practice free throws this week.

    Go BYU!

  • Chris_B Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2013 2:25 a.m.

    After my Utes could not pull off the upset of Arizona (who really did deserve us upsetting them after the refs GAVE them the previous game vs. Colorado), I was really hoping for the Dons to beat the Cougars. But, alas, I was disappointed twice tonight. Despite my thrill at seeing Davies foul out and Haws FINALLY miss some free throws, Carlino has to come out again as a leader and will his team to victory.

    He and Doolin had a little battle going. While Doolin had 3 times the assist Carlino had, it was fun to see Carlino pick the other guy's pocket a few times. Ha, ha. Good stuff. And Josh Sharp is becoming the next Dennis Rodman, rebound king. And the frosting on top??? Bronson Kaufusi comes in and pads his stats w/ another basket and a rebound. Good stuff.

    Again, you make me think I oughta be a Cougar fan...

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 6, 2013 7:18 a.m.

    What did the refs have against Brandon Davies?

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Jan. 6, 2013 7:17 a.m.

    For those who thought every game in the WCC, except Zags and SMU, would be a cake walk, hopefully this was a wake up call. SF is a very good team and capable of knocking anyone off who doesn't bring their A game.

    I've been very impressed with Carlino and Sharp the last few games. Carlino is performing like I thought he would all year, and Sharp is a beast on the offensive boards and very good defender.

    I was a little surprised that Kaufusi came in and that Ambrosina didn't.

    Very happy to see the Cougs get a tough, hard fought road win.

  • Madden Herriman, UT
    Jan. 6, 2013 10:21 a.m.

    2,000 was the turnout? I realize that the WCC has some tough teams to beat at home, but I can't help but feel like the conference is small-time when I read figures like that. I long for the days of UNLV, New Mexico and SDSU. Still no Big 12 or Pac 14/16 invite coming, alas. BYU has a good basketball program going, but they need to get a better schedule ASAP or recruiting is going to fall off a cliff. With only about 5 good WCC games a year, we should have zero non-conference patsy games set up.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2013 11:32 a.m.

    Key stat for BYU this season - 80 points:

    BYU is 10-0 when scoring 80 or more points.
    BYU is 2-4 when scoring fewer than 80 points.

    Utah(61-58) and Weber State(78-68) are the only teams BYU has beaten while scoring fewer than 80 points.

    Interestingly, the Utes haven't scored 80 points against a D-1 opponent this season.

  • deseret pete robertson, Wy
    Jan. 6, 2013 12:13 p.m.

    BYU has to somehow learn to defend off the penetrating dribble.They need to recruit some players who can penetrate off the dribble and then they can learn to defend it better -- I liked the way they hung in all the way despite not playing as good as they normally do.

  • RockOn Spanish Fork, UT
    Jan. 6, 2013 12:34 p.m.

    IN past years I've seen BYU charge out and do great for the first half of the season only to tire and fade and stumble into the NCAA tourney.

    I'm hoping this year is different... stumble at the start, not have the act together, and the 3rd, 4th, 5th and bench guys doing little. Then, they learn to play together and go into tourney time with a head of steam.

    Nice thing about sports, Andy, is there's always hope. And hope is a good thing.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2013 12:48 p.m.

    @CougFaninTX

    A 7-8 Dons team with an RPI of 173 is a good team?

    Yet you are on Utah boards telling us how bad we are at 8-6 with an RPI of 103?

    BYU played a horrible team and survived, that's all there is no need to talk up a horrible opponent.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 6, 2013 12:53 p.m.

    Snack PAC

    "interestingly" you bring the Utes into your comment though no Ute fans had posted a comment prior. Obsessed much?
    Also, if Utah was playing an uptempo run and gun system as the Cougs do then your comment would mean something. Since they don't, you're simply comparing apples and oranges.
    I'm pretty sure a 3 point loss to the #3 ranked team in the country at their house tells Utah fans which style of play will eventually win the bigger games. And just think, Utah is coming that close despite having a retooled team fresh off their worst season ever. I guess we now understand why you're so nervous.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2013 1:03 p.m.

    @Snack PAC

    Interestingly, the Utes haven't scored 80 points against a D-1 opponent this season.

    ---------

    And who has scored 80 on us?

    #3 Arizona State on the road? Nope, held to 16 points below their average.

    ASU on the road? Nope, held to 18 points below their average.

    The #2 WCC BYU on the road? Nope, held to 18 points below their average.

    12-2 Boise at home? Nope, held to 25 below their average.

    We don't have to score 80 points, we actually play defense. Unfortunately our offense isn't as good.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 6, 2013 1:48 p.m.

    Thanks to the ute trolls for giving me an update on Utah basketball, in which I have no interest. If I did, I would read an article about them. BYU played down to their opponent last night as did Arizona. San Francisco was 7-1 at home before playing the Cougars. The Dons don't play well on the road and the Marriott Center will be difficult for them.

  • LindonMan Lindon, UT
    Jan. 6, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    Utah doesn't really play great D, they just play a really slow, boring game. Running down the shot clock until 8 or 9 seconds doesn't really mean you play great D.

  • moderateinmagna MAGNA, UT
    Jan. 6, 2013 3:12 p.m.

    You people have to realize that most of the schools in the WCC are private religious schools with a student body of 6000 or less so why would they build a center that holds more than 6000,BYU is the exception because their student population is near 30,000 so a big place makes sense,but as for the conference not being good is another thing,Bill Russell,Steve Nash,and John Stockton are all alumni of the WCC.

  • couglifer South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 6, 2013 5:01 p.m.

    @motorbike
    Nervous no, happy to see the Utes holding their own and will keep watching for better things to come and they will if they can keep their coach.
    The Cougars played like they had their heads in the clouds after the game on Wednesday then this game started and they got smacked in the mouth and they had to keep fighting a very young opponent who if they can keep their players will be really good in a couple of years

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    Jan. 6, 2013 5:06 p.m.

    Uteology - RPI, really? who uses RPI in this day and age besides weak sports news sites and the ever behind the times NCAA? Do you know that CBSSports shows BYU at 30 in their RPI? I am a BYU Fan, but that is ridiculous!

    As a Utah fan I would think you would not want to quote RPI stats since RPI generally doesn't include how close the win or loss was.

    I chose a couple of the most respected rankings below that take into account all D-1 opponents and how close the game was through 1/5/13:

    Sagarin Pomeroy
    BYU - 55 Rank, SOS 97 47 Rank, SOS 132
    Utah - 88 Rank, SOS 128 116 Rank, SOS 298
    SF - 143 Rank, SOS 51 131 Rank, SOS 128
    AZ - 9 Rank, SOS 55 14 Rank, SOS 107

    As you can see the rankings and SOS are all over the place, especially the SOS. They do tend to come together at the end of the season, but RPI is famous for being even more inconsistent and a team can often jump 30 places in rank after one game using RPI.

  • billybubba South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 6, 2013 5:23 p.m.

    @motorbike
    Nervous no, happy to see the Utes holding their own and will keep watching for better things to come and they will if they can keep their coach.
    The Cougars played like they had their heads in the clouds after the game on Wednesday then this game started and they got smacked in the mouth and they had to keep fighting a very young opponent who if they can keep their players will be really good in a couple of years

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 6, 2013 5:29 p.m.

    @ 4601

    Actually it was Snack PAC who first gave this thread an update on the Utes and bothered to do his research on point totals.

    @ LindonMan

    What you said SOUNDS real nice, but have you actually done your research or do you prefer just pretending your opinions are facts? You might want look at who the number 7th ranked team in the country is at opponents field goal percentage - which has little to nothing to do with pace of the game. For kicks and giggles, Utah is ranked 21st in Opponents points per game.

  • couglifer South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 6, 2013 5:46 p.m.

    @motorbike
    Nervous no, happy to see the Utes holding their own and will keep watching for better things to come and they will if they can keep their coach.
    The Cougars played like they had their heads in the clouds after the game on Wednesday then this game started and they got smacked in the mouth and they had to keep fighting a very young opponent who if they can keep their players will be really good in a couple of years

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 6, 2013 6:26 p.m.

    @LindonMan
    Lindon, UT

    Utah doesn't really play great D, they just play a really slow, boring game. Running down the shot clock until 8 or 9 seconds doesn't really mean you play great D.

    ------------

    True. But holding your opponents to a low shooting percentage does mean you play a great defense.

    BYU shot 31% against our defense at the Marriott Center.
    Arizona shot 36% against our defense at McKale Center.
    ASU shot 37% against our defense at the Wells Fargo Arena.
    SMU shot 33% at Moody Coliseum.

    BYU held Weber State to 42%, Iowa State 48%, FSU 58%, Notre Dame 52%, Baylor 45%, and the Dons to 50% shooting at War Memorial Gymnasium.

    Result? Utah in year one of rebuilding the program has been in every single game while BYU has been blown out 4 times.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    Jan. 6, 2013 6:57 p.m.

    Uteology

    "And who has scored 80 on us?"

    #3 Arizona [sic] State on the road? Nope, held to 16 points below their average. - LOSS

    ASU on the road? Nope, held to 18 points below their average. - LOSS

    The #2 WCC BYU on the road? Nope, held to 18 points below their average. - LOSS

    Burning the entire play clock may keep opponents from having enough possessions to score 80 points, but it's extremely boring and doesn't win games against good teams. If the Utes are going to run a 20-pass before shooting Princeton-style offense, they should get rid of the "Runnin' Utes" nickname because it's false advertising.

    In 5 of Utah's 6 losses, the Utes scored fewer than 60 points.

    The Utes are 183rd in the country in scoring and already dead last in the conference. If that kind of offense excites U, enjoy.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Jan. 6, 2013 10:32 p.m.

    Uteology

    When a team shoots 70% in the first half expect a tough game regardless of their w/l record.

    USF would smoke the Utes on a night like they played BYU.

    Those moral victories got a few of you Utesies excited huh? LOL

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 7, 2013 8:45 a.m.

    Uteology

    "Result? Utah in year one of rebuilding the program has been in every single game while BYU has been blown out 4 times."

    Yes, but BYU is 12-4, while Utah is 8-6.

    And, unlike Utah, every one of BYU's 4 losses has come against big name teams on the road,

    Florida St(9-5)
    Notre Dame(13-1)
    Iowa St(10-3)
    Baylor(9-3)

    while the Utes have lost 3 games against non-big name teams, including two at home,

    Sac St(6-5)
    SMU(10-6)
    CSN(9-6)

    btw, Utah is in year 2 of rebuilding under coach small k, but year 7 of rebuilding since Majerus left.

    Utah's defense is improved, but Utah's offense is still ugly and boring.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 7, 2013 9:24 a.m.

    Uteology

    "...holding your opponents to a low shooting percentage does mean you play a great defense."

    True. But it doesn't often result in wins, if you don't have an offense that can score.

    Sometimes you have to outscore the other team.

    For example, CSN scored 76 points against Utah and 75 points against BYU, but bottom line

    BYU 87-75 (BYU 47%, CSN 42%)
    Utah 76-71 (Utah 42%, CSN 53%)

    The difference in BYU winning and Utah losing versus CSN, was BYU scoring 16 more points against the Matadors than the Utes.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    Jan. 7, 2013 9:30 a.m.

    Lindonman

    How do you run the clock down to 8-9 seconds on D? Is that your (byU "fan")way of saying that they play great D? Very well.

    Truth Machine

    The difference is, those "big name" schools rocked the cougs by a combined 64 point margin. The Utes on the other hand have been in every game they have played. Losing by a combined 21 points in all 6 losses including the #3 team in the country on their floor. Big difference.

    All this flack about boring play. Just go take a close look at how the Majerus teams played. Great D and a motion offense that produced wins. Take that all day long.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 7, 2013 10:02 a.m.

    utahcountyute

    A loss is a loss.

    I do find it hilarious that Utah fans are suddenly beating their chests about close losses in basketball, after completely dismissing BYU's close losses during the football season.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Jan. 7, 2013 11:06 a.m.

    utahcountyute

    "Just go take a close look at how the Majerus teams played. Great D and a motion offense that produced wins."

    Here's your "close look"

    Majerus's motion offense produced wins because it SCORED at the end of most of those possessions!

    During Utah's heyday of the 90's, only one of Majerus's teams averaged less than 70 ppg.

    Majerus's best teams

    1990-91 (30-4) 73.7 ppg
    1994-95 (28-6) 77.5 ppg
    1995-96 (27-7) 76.7 ppg
    1996-97 (29-4) 74.4 ppg
    1997-98 (30-4) 70.4 ppg
    1998-99 (28-5) 71.2 ppg
    2002-03 (25-8) 66.3 ppg

    Only ONE of Majerus's 25+ win teams averaged less than 70 ppg, and that team suffered more losses than any other Rick Majerus-coached 25+ win team.

    Bottom line:

    The Utes aren't going to win any championships or play in many tournaments scoring 67.4 ppg (182nd in the country), especially when the Utes are really averaging 64.5 ppg, if you don't include the 104 points Utah scored against D-II Willamette.

    --------

    It's interesting that you conveniently ignored Utah's losses to Sac St, CSN, and SMU.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 7, 2013 11:33 a.m.

    utahcountyute

    While good defense is important, being able to score is a much bigger factor in determining how good a team is.

    Top 10 Teams in FG% Defense
    Texas
    6 Kansas
    Maryland
    7 Syracuse
    Ga Tech
    Virginia
    Utah
    Cincinnati
    Texas-Arlington
    5 Indiana

    AP Top 10 and Scoring and FG% rank
    1 Duke(13)(34)
    2 Michigan(7)(95)
    3 Louisville(32)(93)
    4 Arizona(45)(72)
    5 Indiana(1)(10)
    6 Kansas(36)(2)
    7 Syracuse(14)(4)
    8 Minnesota(50)(32)
    9 Gonzaga(12)(86)
    10 Missouri(30)(19)

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 7, 2013 12:46 p.m.

    You guys are arguing over some ridiculous stuff.

    first of all, for anyone that thinks scoring is more important than defense, check back with us come tourney time and lets talk about how those high scoring teams that don't play good defense end up doing.

    Now obviously if you can run and score AND play great defense and rebound, you're a great team.

    The comparison of defense and scoring in reference to Rick Majerus coached teams (made by our friend skywalker) is simply an example of what I just wrote above. Notice Mr Skywalker didn't include the field goal percentages of Utah's opponents but instead pointed only to Utah's offensive production?

    Bottom line is this, Majerus built his program on defense AND rebounding and had virtually the same type of results in his first 2 years that Utah's starting to see this year under Coach Krystowiak. Once his system started producing some decent results it was simply adding better scoring recruits and fine-tuning his motion offense that made Utah's scoring go up ... and THAT's when the NCAA Tourney success truly began.

    Any questions?

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Jan. 7, 2013 1:10 p.m.

    Uteology

    CSN shot 53% against your defense in the Huntsman Center.

    Result, another loss at home for the Utes.

    The real problem Utah faces is U have no offense to compensate for the opponent having a hot shooting night.

    By contrast, even with San Francisco shooting 50% FG and 46% 3PFG, with Davies in foul trouble and Haws missing free throws, BYU still had enough firepower to overcome a double-digit 2nd half deficit on the road.

    How many double-digit leads has Utah blown this year because they stopped scoring in the 2nd half?

    Defense can only carry U so far.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 7, 2013 1:26 p.m.

    motorbike

    Nice strawman, but not a single blogger said that defense isn't important.

    What they have been saying is you can't rely solely on defense. If you can't score, it doesn't matter how good your defense is, you're still going to lose.

    Majerus's best teams averaged 70+ ppg (usually in the mid-70s).

    Against D-1 teams this year, Utah is only averaging 63.9 ppg.

    It doesn't matter how you spin, the Utes will lose far more games than they win when they only score 64 points, regardless of how good your defense is.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 7, 2013 3:19 p.m.

    @ Rockwell

    "Nice strawman, but not a single blogger said that defense isn't important."

    To which I say, nice strawman, but not a single blogger said that offense isn't important.

    I can supply you with a nice big DUH to every comment you made. No one is saying you don't need offense, but it should be fairly obvious that defense is more reliable than offense if your team knows how to play it. Why? Like you said, shooters can be hot and cold ... that's why we're here stating that defense and rebounding are the proper foundation to success. This doesn't mean you don't still put the best offense on the court that you possibly can.

    I spent one year under Majerus and I can tell you 100% that Kryskowiak is building things the same way he did and going through the same ups and downs that come with it. As I continually say, the foundation is nearly completed, now watch what happens as the offensive system and talent improves. It'll take some more time to build the correct way but it's gonna get silly sooner than many think.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    Jan. 7, 2013 3:31 p.m.

    Skywalker

    How did I "ignore" the losses to CSNR, Sac St and SMU? I included the numbers of all 6 losses the Utes have had. ???

    Well explained Motor. There will most likely be questions though.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    Jan. 7, 2013 3:44 p.m.

    Official NCAA RPI Rankings

    #30 BYU
    #103 Utah St
    #107 Utah
    #143 Weber St

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    Jan. 7, 2013 7:14 p.m.

    Oh, by the way. USF is a three time national champion in basketball. Just sayin'.

    Uteology - USF would have crushed utah last Saturday night. They brought their "A" game. Not as "horrible" as you say.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 7, 2013 11:54 p.m.

    Utah is in year one of rebuilding since I we have 10 new players from last year.

    Settle down BYU fans, I never claimed Utah was a good team. I said we are playing some great defense and we struggle on offense.

    Tom in CA: "Uteology - USF would have crushed utah last Saturday night. They brought their "A" game. Not as "horrible" as you say."

    Arizona would have crushed BYU last Saturday night. So whats your point? Don's are a horrible team, even lipstick won't help.

    @phoenix
    I find it hilarious that BYU fans after "beating their chests" after losing close football games with a great defense and a poor offense our tell Utah fans how not to act.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 8, 2013 12:00 a.m.

    The ironic part of this offense vs defense debate is if Jimmer played defense BYU probably would have made it to the Final 4 at least once. And "Jimmer Watch" would be "Who got Jimmered".

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 7:49 a.m.

    Uteology

    Jimmer's defense was never an issue; Rose structured his game plan around giving Jimmer a bit of a break on defense so he could handle the physical toll of the constant double-teams he faced on offense. BYU would have made the Final 4, possibily even won a championship if Davies hadn't been suspended just before the playoffs.

  • starthillnotnelson Kamas/United States, UT
    Jan. 10, 2013 3:21 p.m.

    Next year will be great. Picture this:

    PG Matt Carlino
    SG Tyler Haws
    SF Kyle Collinsworth
    PF Josh Sharp/Eric Mika/Nate Austin
    C Eric Mika/Nate Austin.

    Everyone on here can score(sure, you can argue Sharp, Collinsworth, and Austin not scoring much, but they CAN score.)
    Carlino can pass, and pretty much everyone can rebound(Carlino can rebound) . The only area of question is defense, which I actually think they can do decently. Really watch out next year