Quantcast
Utah

KSL temporarily suspends firearms listings on ksl.com

Comments

Return To Article
  • Reasonable Person Layton, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 8:32 p.m.

    Why just temporarily?

  • Orem Parent Orem, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 8:48 p.m.

    Wait so you can bypass all background checks by buying a gun on KSL? I must be misinformed. Someone tell me it isn't that easy but then again it probably is.

  • Ett Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 8:56 p.m.

    It's a pity to see KSL caving in to the hype. Most firearm owners are safe, law-abiding individuals, such as myself. I carried professionally for years, as well as personally. When Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people with a fertilizer bomb, did KSL stop selling garden products? This is a knee-jerk reaction and exactly the kind we should all avoid. Knee-jerk reactions lead to poor decision making. Stop and breathe people. The problem at hand is much deeper than firearms, which are in themselves, inanimate. Such acts are symptomatic of bigger problems at large.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 9:18 p.m.

    @Ett

    KSL is a private company and can do whatever they want, without your permission or approval.

  • NT SomewhereIn, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 9:43 p.m.

    I am a daily reader of ksl and deseretnews - the news AND the gun, ammunition and reloading classifieds. the last gun I purchased from ksl was, well, about 3 weeks ago.

    I guess I will be "temporarily" suspending my news viewing and shopping here until the anonymous management hiding behind their "management" title admits their kneejerk reaction was inappropriate.

  • You SLC, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 10:00 p.m.

    This is a step in the right direction, but the suspension should be permanent. There is no good reason to have such easy access to guns in this country. The more civilized countries in the world that have better gun control also have (surprise, surprise) far fewer gun crimes. The numbers aren't even close.

    I am sick of hearing the logical fallacies that are used as arguments by the gun fanatics. One of the most common is the "people die in car accidents, so let's ban cars if we're going to ban guns" argument. The problem with this is cars and guns have different purposes. The purpose of cars is transport. The ONLY purpose guns have is killing.

  • philaD Clifton Heights, PA
    Dec. 18, 2012 10:01 p.m.

    @CHS 85,

    KSL is a private company and can do whatever they want. Ett said nothing to the contrary. And it is a pity that they have caved "temporarily". This is a much larger problem than firearms as Ett mentioned, and I also believe that KSL is having a knee jerk moment. Everyone engaged in "gun control" discussions, no matter your stance are having knee jerk reactions. Including myself.

  • DN Subscriber 2 SLC, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 10:15 p.m.

    It would save many more lives if KSL temporarily suspended sale of motorcycles, ATVS, jet skis and certainly automobiles. Thousands of people are killed by those machines every year.

    "If it saves just one life..."

    Not to mention baseball bats and kitchen utensils- they are frequently used by criminals or crazy people to assault or even kill innocent victims.

    However, as others have noted, KSL is a private company and free to allow or disallow sales of any sort.

  • You SLC, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 10:34 p.m.

    2008 gun-related homicides:

    US = 12000+
    Japan = 11 (11 total! With a population of 128 million!)

    And Japan has a more rabid video game culture than the US, so there goes the video-games-are-to-blame argument that many love.

    The UK and many fine countries in Europe have similar low gun crime stats due to strict gun control laws that we need to develop here.

  • JJL Eugene, OR
    Dec. 18, 2012 10:45 p.m.

    The gun control debate must be put in proper context. The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with protecting liberty - liberty that is not granted by government. The Bill of Rights is a list of rights that existed prior to the Constitution and remain God-given rights regardless of whether the Constitution remains respected by the national government, the states, and individuals in those states. The Bill of Rights is meant to protect minority rights - rights that otherwise can be trampled by the majority. Those rights were violated by mobs and state militias against the Mormons in Missouri and Illinois in the 19th Century. American citizens of Japanese ancestory were interned and place in concentration camps and their property confiscated and given to others by the US Government in the 20th Century. If the Mormons had no arms they would have been wiped of the face of the US. To say that "it couldn't happen in the US" is not only ignorant, but ignores history. These are just US examples, and doesn't even begin the discussion regarding other countries and minorities in those other countries.

  • philaD Clifton Heights, PA
    Dec. 18, 2012 10:52 p.m.

    @you,

    Interesting statistics, please look up on any internet search engine "harvard gun control" for a well though out analysis. Russia, where handguns are banned, has a murder rate of over 20, finland and Norway where handguns are allowed have a murder rate of less than 2.

    Here in the USA, Chicago and Washington DC have some of the strictest gun control laws, and some of the highest murder rates. Bottom line- gun control does not appear to slow down violent crimes. And leaves citizens vulnerable to violence perpetuated by those who laugh at such laws.

  • philaD Clifton Heights, PA
    Dec. 18, 2012 11:00 p.m.

    From the harvard gun control article (Kates and Mauser)...

    "National institute of Justice surveys among prison inmates find that large percentages report that their fear that a victim might be armed deterred them from confrontation crimes and the felons most frightened about confronting a victim were those from states with the greatest relative number of privately owned firearms. Conversely, robbery is highest in states that most restrict gun ownership."

    and....

    "A series of studies by John Lott and his coauthor David Mustard conclude that the issuance of millions of permits to carry concealed handguns is associated with drastic declines in American homicide rates."

  • Troy06 OREM, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 11:01 p.m.

    C'mon KSL! No one outside Utah cares you temporarily closed down your gun classifieds. Cheap shot to pat yourself on the back.

    The issue is not guns. It's lack of mental health.

  • Herby Hurricane, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 11:10 p.m.

    The Great Divide is occurring right before our eyes. We are treading in dangerous waters. We live in a value driven country and if gun sales are up, what is that telling us? Our country values guns and that is not a bad thing. Our country as a whole does not value violence. Otherwise the majority of our citizens would participate. Sandy Hook has become politicized.

  • ML1776 SLC/SL, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 11:33 p.m.

    Lets push more legislation. We could triple the sentence for murder. Quadruple for murder with stolen pistol. All this paper and law is surely the answer. I'm sure that murderers review the law before committing evil acts. Without all this control, law abiding people with respect for human life, are apt to become evil just by touching a gun. Yeah this makes perfect sense. Now lets ban gas and lighters, sharp sticks and other "dangerous objects" . We can't look at the human operating the object. It's interesting how communism just spews when a travesty is committed. It's really not the answer.
    Your Suburu could be a "Dangerous object" with you behind the wheel.

  • DanO Mission Viejo, CA
    Dec. 18, 2012 11:39 p.m.

    JJL.. the second amendment didn't repeal the Article 3, Section 3 of the Constitution. There are other remedies in the Constitution that weren't explored in either case you cited, but should have. We have a court system for those purposes.

  • DanO Mission Viejo, CA
    Dec. 18, 2012 11:46 p.m.

    Herby: "Our country as a whole does not value violence." Of course not.. that must be why it's on television programs every. single. night.
    And as far as the Oklahoma City citation that Ett used, we regulated ammonium nitrate in the Secure Handling of Ammonium Nitrate Act of 2007. It requires the licensing of ammonium nitrate facilities and registration for buyers

  • Herby Hurricane, UT
    Dec. 18, 2012 11:58 p.m.

    DanO: Actions speak louder than words my friend. If our country as a whole truly values violence then why isn't there chaos right now? I love how people put the negative under the microscope, yet I look around my neighborhood and there is not one person that comes to mind of an individual who loves violence.

  • ML1776 SLC/SL, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 12:05 a.m.

    I'm sure the ammonium nitrate act has stopped terrorism cold. Speaking of terrorist, don't we need to ban vans and airplanes. If you don't think it hasn't crossed the minds of the control mongers in Washington think again. Reduction of freedoms have not made a difference in criminal behavior. However, criminal behavior has caused reduction of our freedoms.

  • DanO Mission Viejo, CA
    Dec. 19, 2012 12:11 a.m.

    Yet I'm sure many of your neighbors plop down $15 on a movie or $60 on a video game that is violent. When there's an incident, gun sales go up. When there's a perceived threat of regulation, gun sales go up. Seems more to me that the main driver of gun sales is paranoia. I'm not sure how that's a good thing.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 12:16 a.m.

    What is a true misfortune is that this type of action was not taken immediately after Columbine High School in Colorado years ago. One wonders why it takes so long to understand there is a problem that needs to be solved in some fashion.

    The vast majority of drivers are good and decent people too, yet we still wear seat belts to protect ourselves against the nuts behind the wheel so a majority of sensible persons doesn't automatically eliminate all the issues for society by those with poor behavior.

    Because guns are so lethal (they are designed to kill and that is their primary purpose) we ought to take them seriously. And I don't mean just the right to own them or shoot them, but how we store them, who can get their hands on them, how we dispose of ammunition, etc. It's not a problem with a simple answer but it does need to be resolved.

  • JJL Eugene, OR
    Dec. 19, 2012 12:55 a.m.

    DanO: I am not following your argument. What does Art III, Sec 3 have to do with the 2nd Amendment? Other remedies for killing and imprisioning groups of people without charge, trial and conviction? Not sure what remedies you are talking about, but the judicial system is not going to enforce the laws that violate minority rights.

    What doesn't get splashed all over the media, whipping the public in a frenzy are the countless acts of violene that do not occur because of an armed populace. It is impossible to sell newspapers, and does not fit the political agenda of the majority of leftist journalists, to highlight facts the show that an armed populace deters certain crimes and thereby saves lives.

    It is a sad day when a tragic event such as this is used by statists to strip away US citizen's constitutional rights. "Emergency does not create power" (Chief Justice Holmes) is a concept that we should be heeding in this time of sadness.

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 2:36 a.m.

    The gun-related death rate in America is equivalent to South Africa, while a nation like the UK (that has poverty- and crime-ridden inner cities) has far, far less. If it is primarily criminals and crazies driving up our gun-related death rate rather than easy access to firearms, then America has been cursed with a disproportionate number of criminals and crazies. Because we have a lot of legally-owned firearms that don't seem to be doing us much good.

    Gun rights advocates such as DN Subscriber above who use logical fallacies to support private gun ownership need to explain why it is that a handgun is more likely to be used against a member of the household than it is against an intruder, why we need legalization of semiautomatic non-hunting military style rifles that made the slaughter of 26 people at Sandy Hook such an easily accomplished feat, and why they cannot understand the difference in purpose between automobiles and firearms.

    If you advocate 2nd amendment rights, that's fine. But be honest about some of the unfortunate consequences of widespread legal gun ownership in this country and stop telling us that guns always make us safer.

  • Pragmatic Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 5:35 a.m.

    Why temporary? Why the pandering? KSL should consider suspending permanently. Thee is a place for guns..but not as easily readily to obtain as thy are now.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 6:23 a.m.

    Does not surprise me at all. KSL bowing to political correctness. I'm thinking that more children drown than are killed by guns. I propose those who are weak in the knees lobby for a ban on water.
    Makes as much sense as banning guns. As far as other countries stats. Whoopee! The do not have a constitution.

  • jim l West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 6:31 a.m.

    what about the 2nd Amend.? How are you going to regulate crazy or mentally ill people? Are you going to lock everyone up that you suspect is a little wierd? Who decides?

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Dec. 19, 2012 6:42 a.m.

    How about this idea.

    Lets get a cross section of non-partisan people to study this problem.

    They walk in with no preconceived solutions and make recommendations based on where the evidence leads them?

    Tell me. What is the basis for the best course of action?

    Fact based research or party ideology?

    Our elected leaders come from all walks of life. Very few are trained to formulate complex solutions to complex problems.

    And, seldom do they consult experts.

  • Pa. Reader Harrisburg, PA
    Dec. 19, 2012 6:51 a.m.

    It's time to get completely behind the sacred second amendment.
    It was ratified by our nation along with the rest of the Bill of Rights in 1789.
    We should demand the right to own any gun that was manufactured in 1789 or before.
    Let all gun owners trade in their semi-automatic weapons for muskets.
    That's a policy that even the all-white, Deist, slave owning, and yet, according to some, infallible Founding Fathers would surely support!
    Ridiculous? Exactly.
    Gun industry supporters twist the second amendment to maximize their sales in exactly the same way pornographers wrap themselves in the first amendment to peddle their filth. When it comes to gun feteshists and porn users the genie is indeed out of the bottle. That doesn't mean a sane society should fail to address either ill in a sensible way.

  • SmoothWater Heber City, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 7:03 a.m.

    9/11 gave us the TSA. I'm sure this tragedy will be used again to create another multi-billion dollar bureaucracy that ends up costing us so much more than money. Goodbye liberty. It was nice knowing you for a while.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 7:14 a.m.

    The trouble with this emotional reaction is this. The kid was not able to purchase the weapons he used. He didn't use assault rifles. He didn't use high capacity clips. As far as everything has been reported. He used handguns and a rifle.

    So why are we removing weapons that were not used?

    Now the same regime that gave assault rifles to the mexican drug cartel. The same weapons used to slaughter Americans and Mexican citizens. Is going to lecture us on how to be responsible? This regime covered up those murders and the media turned it's back on that story.

    But, when a child with mental issues, tries to purchase a weapon and was denied. The system worked. From what we know the failings were with the mother. She failed to secure her weapons and place them where this kid couldn't get to them.

    Stop the emotional over reaction to this.

  • mdp Bountiful, utah
    Dec. 19, 2012 7:29 a.m.

    Im disappointed in you KSL. Any gun without a pulled trigger is nothing more than a paperweight. Frankly, if you want to make a stand that makes any sense, shut down your sales of violent video games that desensitizes kids to socially acceptable behaviors.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 7:40 a.m.

    Hey You (no pun intended). The Japan example is so bad of an example, and let me tell you why. Japan still has cultural norms that define their behavior. Certain things are right, and certain things are wrong. Theirs is still a society where Honor, Honesty, having a moral commpass are still valued aspects of their society. Here in the U.S., we have none of that. There are no more bounderies in our society, because heaven help you if you offend someone. You can't teach any moral values in school any more. You can't talk about right and wrong. You can't even bring up the 10 Commandments as a possible moral values code to live by. Moral Relativism is the norm in the U.S. Until that changes, all the gun control laws in the world won't change what happened last week. Until we can teach right and wrong without all the moral gray areas, nothing will change.

    Guns are not the problem. Access to guns are not the problem. People and how they act, with their agency is the problem. We change can the behavior by what we teach.

  • DanO Mission Viejo, CA
    Dec. 19, 2012 7:41 a.m.

    JJL, try that many people think that the second amendment allows them to take up arms against the government.. or levying war against it (treason.) JJL seems to think if you're being wronged, the first thing to do is to take up arms. The second amendment does not allow this. In fact, it wasn't until Scalia threw out the first half of the second amendment in his Heller decision in 2008 that SCOTUS said that the second amendment was an individual right. Even very conservative judge, Richard Posner, said the Heller decision manufactured a right that didn't exist. This is what the right often refers to as "judicial activism." Scalia had to ignore his previous "originalist" interpretations of the Constitution in order to come to such a conclusion.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 7:44 a.m.

    Bring back the death penalty

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 7:49 a.m.

    By the way. An assault weapons ban was in place in 1999 when Colombine happened. A fat lot of good that ban did.

    KSL is jumping on the politically correct band wagon. It's a classic case of slamming the barn door after all the amimals have escaped.

    One armed, trained individual may have stopped what happened last Friday. It would have stopped Virginia Tech, it would have stopped Littleton, it would have stopped the mall shooting last week, et.al.

    Dan O, you must be reading a different Constitution than I do. In my copy of the Constitution Article III Section 3 deals with Treason. Not sure how that even applies to the 2nd Amendment.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Dec. 19, 2012 7:58 a.m.

    Flash,

    You talk about how Japan has a moral compass and the US does not. And then you proceed to equate morality to religion.

    Do you realize that Japan is consistently ranked as one of the LEAST religious countries in the world?

    People in the US would have a greater acceptance of the teaching of a "moral compass" in school if it didn't get wrapped so tightly in Religious packaging.

  • NT SomewhereIn, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:17 a.m.

    @Pragmatic

    Please cite any evidence that making it more difficult to legally obtain a gun reduces crime, or keeps criminals from committing crime.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:22 a.m.

    mdp said:
    "Im disappointed in you KSL. Any gun without a pulled trigger is nothing more than a paperweight."
    Yes, so please leave them lying about for anybody to handle or play with. NRA lobbyist?

    Thank you KSL for being responsible.

    If any gun ever sold on KSL has been used nefariously then they are responsible for those action as the conservative posters have pointed out for months now, that it was the guns and where they came from, not the individuals who may have used the Assault weapons involved in "the fast and furious" Scheme, right?

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:23 a.m.

    What the biased media has NOT reported is that a Concealed Carry Permit holder drew a bead on the shooter at the Oregon Mall after he killed 2 people.
    He did not fire because people were running for cover behind the gunman and he did not want to take the chance of injuring them if he missed. But the shooter saw him, and the next shot he took was to his own head.

    Look it up, there's a video from a local Portland TV station on you tube.

    But no way the liberal media would ever report this. For them, it's all about the liberal agenda of gun control. Bad people use guns to do bad things, so controlling guns will stop the bad things from happening......NOT.

  • tejas washington, utah
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:35 a.m.

    the constitution is clear it should be as easy to buy a gun as a loaf of bread

  • Jack-P West Valley, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:40 a.m.

    KSL is a private company and can take whatever action it feels like taking. We can also interpret their action as anti 2nd amendment.

    Do they really think that their shortsighted action will make any difference in the world?
    I used to keep my TV on KSL for the morning news, Today, and beyond. Just changed that.

  • mdp Bountiful, utah
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:41 a.m.

    Mr Heretic... It amazes me how you liberals always jump on the gun control bandwagon and systematically ignore abortion. Guns kill maybe hundreds of innocents each year, abortions kill millions of babies each and every year. Which is worse, a firearm most often used for protection, or the abortionist's knives which are purposefully used to kill every time they are used? Hypocrites.

  • 22ozn44ozglass Southern Utah, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:46 a.m.

    While KSL as a private business has the right to make this suspension and are free to do so, they are not free from the consequences. Making knee jerk PC decisions bring consequences as well, and rarely are knee jerk PC decisions meant to cure the disease but rather make a public display of treating symptoms.

    Happy Vallley Heritic you make a false analogy. The Obama administration and their subservients knowingly and willingly violated laws and the Obama administration most certainly knew the pattern of nefarious lifestyles of the people who they illegally sold guns to. The Obama regime has gone to extreme measures to conceal & cover their nefarious activities in fast and furious. Yet they are not held accountable. KSL did not sell guns to anyone. They have no knowledge of the criminal records and goals of anyone who might purchase a gun through their add. Last but not least there is no law against printing classified adds which connect private citizens who want to sell/buy guns.

    Models/Examples of lawful behavior & honest, legal, responsible handling of gun transactions has to start at the top-yes that means POTUS and his administration.

  • trueamerican Huntsville, AL
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:53 a.m.

    You, the only purpose in having a gun is NOT to just kill people. There are many responsible gun owners who enjoy the shooting sports. Ever see the Olympics? The thing is, criminals will ALWAYS be able to get guns and kill...and they don't go through licensing for the most part. Responsible gun owners go through the licensing process. Sometimes you can't protect people no matter how many hoops everyone is made to jump through. I wonder if KSL allows anti-depressant ads to be run on their stations? Hmmm.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:54 a.m.

    YOU might be right. But I'm afraid it goes much deeper than that. Could it have something to do with cultures that actually respect other people and don't hold violence as a national value?

    Just looking at some of the postings here -- with their hints at violence as they disagree with other posters -- is one illustration of a much more deeply embedded problem in America.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:55 a.m.

    Joe Blow, read it again. I never mentioned religion. I did mention the 10 Commandments which are the basis for common law all over the world.

    By the way, my guns are secured in a gun safe.

    Chicago has had over two hundred gun related homicides this year, with two weeks left to go. They have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the United States. I don't see gun control helping Chicago a lot. Same with DC, same with New York.

    Banning guns is not the solution to the problem. Changing behaviors is the solution to the problem. But even then, there will always be the random crazies out there.

    Ted Bundy killed how many? Have we banned porn? Did Dahmer use a gun? How about Art Bishop?

    By the way, I bought 100 pounds of ammonium nitrate for fertilizer from IFA and I never even got questioned.

    What happened last Friday is a tragedy. No doubt about it. Banning guns wouldn't have stopped it. Mom's guns were legal, but apparently not secured. How do we know he wouldn't have made several pipe bombs and used them instead of the Bushmaster?

  • trueamerican Huntsville, AL
    Dec. 19, 2012 8:58 a.m.

    When I was a high schooler, we used to bring shotguns right on the bus to school. We had a gun club. Other schools had gun clubs with teachers being sponsors. No killings, no mass murders, no incidents. What happened? First, the nation as a whole has left God. This nation doesn't even want to hear about God anymore. Jesus' name is toast here. Secondly, the nation is on anti-depressants like mad. Mothers more concerned about their work life than their home life. Families broken apart. Kids without direction or proper parenting. That's what happened in the USA. Next, these same people don't want to deal with anything so they'd rather have the Feds deal with it all. It saves them up to just think about Disney trips, buying the next new car, and getting those sporting tickets and jerseys. What a mess of a country. Gun bans won't fix it. All gun bans will do is make sure the criminals are the only ones with guns. Worse, that the Feds are the only ones with them.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 19, 2012 9:10 a.m.

    "Though Justice Antonin Scalia tried in the majority opinion (Heller v D.C.) to use the Second Amendment to defend gun rights, the many sources that he cited are clear that the purpose of the amendment was to protect state militias. One source, for example, declares, that the purpose of the Second Amendment is "to secure a well-armed militia... ." Another source Scalia cited indicates that the amendment covers only arms that "have some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia."

    Therefore, Scalia acknowledges that the Second Amendment -- even in his pro-gun interpretation -- only protects arms that would be used in a militia, not the weapons of a formal army. He makes clear that "M-16 rifles and the like" have no Second Amendment protection and may be banned.

    More basically, the idea that unregulated private gun ownership and trade protects us against tyranny, or that gun controls would threaten tyranny to us all, is baseless. Democracies around the world regulate guns, preserve their freedoms, and achieve firearm murder rates that are a tiny fraction of the rates suffered in the United States."
    (Jeffrey Sachs)

  • LVIS Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 9:16 a.m.

    You
    SLC, UT
    "2008 gun-related homicides:
    US = 12000+
    Japan = 11 (11 total! With a population of 128 million!)
    And Japan has a more rabid video game culture than the US, so there goes the video-games-are-to-blame argument that many love."

    In Japan, the total murder rate is almost 1 per 100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2 murders per 100,000 people each year by weapons other than firearms. This means that even if firearms in the U.S. could be eliminated, the U.S. would still have three times the murder rate of the Japanese. Whereas Japan’s murder rate may be low, its suicide rate is over 20 per 100,000 people. Combined, Japanese are being murdered and committing suicide at a rate of about 21 per 100,000. In the U.S., our combined murder and suicide rate is also about 21.

    Please, give us more 'data'. Your statement hardly eliminates the 'video-games-are-to-blame' argument.

  • LVIS Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 9:26 a.m.

    You
    SLC, UT--
    "The UK and many fine countries in Europe have similar low gun crime stats due to strict gun control laws that we need to develop here."

    Really?

    Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, the rate of crime – especially violent crime – has risen. Ironically, firearm use in crimes in the UK has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned. Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the second highest over all crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britan had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United states (446 vs. 2034 per 100,000 population).A Sep 2007 study showed 67% of British residents surveyed believed that “As a result of gun and knife crime [rising], the area I live in is not as safe as it was five years ago.”

    You need to get your facts straight, and quit parroting unsubstantiated myths.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 9:41 a.m.

    mdp, so when confronted with the absolute silliness of your defense, you change the subject just like a good radio junkie.
    Try staying on subject I know it's hard when you've posted a silly comment.

    22ozn44ozglass: your wrong it's exactly the same thing minus your presidential hatred and faux news bias.
    As far as "KSL did not sell guns to anyone." and Nabster didn't sell music to anyone either but the owners are still in Jail?

  • tejas washington, utah
    Dec. 19, 2012 10:01 a.m.

    "I am hereby resolved that under no circumstances shall the freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights be infringed. In particular I am opposed to any attempt on the part of the federal government to deny the people their right to bear arms, to worship, and to pray when and where they choose, or to own and control private property" Ezra taft Benson

  • Daniel84020 Draper, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 10:05 a.m.

    The problem with the "guns-aren't-the -problem-but-culture-is -the-problem" argument: The people who claim this can seldom pin down what specifically about the culture causes us to be such a dramatic outlier when it comes to homicide rates. (About 3 to 4 times higher than other countries with similar socioeconomic statuses.)

    People will try to bring in Mexico or Russia as examples to the contrary. That's silly. Of course in countries with wildly corrupt police forces and judiciaries, poor law enforcement, and known-and-left-alone warlords you're going to have high homicide rates. Culturally speaking, we're a lot closer to Canada (our homicide rate is 2.7 times higher) and the U.K. (ours is 3.5 times higher). So what, if not guns, is the difference?

    Finally, the mere fact that culture is a part of this problem (and I think it is) is not evidence that the proliferation of guns isn't also a part of the problem.

  • Daniel84020 Draper, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 10:12 a.m.

    The problem with the "X-kills-more-people-than-guns" argument: It doesn't recognize the bias in the technology.

    "People like to think of technologies and media as neutral and that only their use or content determines their impact. Guns don't kill people, after all, people kill people. But guns are much more biased toward killing people than, say, pillows — even though many a pillow has been utilized to smother an aging relative or adulterous spouse.

    Our widespread inability to recognize or even acknowledge the biases of the technologies we use renders us incapable of gaining any real agency through them."

    Sure a lot of people die via car. (Which cars are more heavily regulated than guns because we recognize their danger, by the way.) But a car isn't designed to kill people. In many ways, it's just the opposite. Cars also do an extraordinary amount of things to improve our lives. In terms of making my life better while bringing some risk, cars have a much higher ratio than guns.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Dec. 19, 2012 10:16 a.m.

    "The mere fact that culture is a part of this problem (and I think it is) is not evidence that the proliferation of guns isn't also a part of the problem."

    BINGO Daniel. It is a complex problem and no single, simple solution will fix it.

  • Daniel84020 Draper, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 10:19 a.m.

    The problem with the "if-they-take-away -guns-than-they-can -take-away-X" argument: Slippery slope arguments are seldom legitimate because they don't recognize that we are capable of making distinctions nearly every day and with all kinds of rules and laws.

    To most people it would sound silly if I said, "Government can't tax me even 1% because what is to keep them from then taxing 100%?" Or "If the FDA can limit the amount of arsenic in my food, then what's to keep them from telling me that I can only eat lima beans?" Or "if you can tell me that I can't drive 100 mph, then what's to keep your from telling me that I have to drive at 5 mph?"

    The fact of the matter is, to avoid utter chaos (a premier threat to my liberty) we have to have some rules. The existence of some rules doesn't mean everything will be ruled over. Just some things. We draw these lines in many ways every day. They are seldom perfect lines. But we get by and are able to adjust them regularly as the people demand.

  • DN Subscriber 2 SLC, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 10:23 a.m.

    Why do the KSL management want to keep people from having legal self defense tools?

    Sure, they are free to do so, but people who want to legally purchase firearms have plenty of other options. As do subscribers, viewers and advertisers- all of whom should be reconsidering their choices of dealing with a media conglomerate that bows to political correctness, on top of being pretty much part of the liberally biased media to start with.

    There are plenty of on-line services legally selling guns. I cannot post any links, but if you search for "Gun Auction" you will probably find some excellent options, including one based in Utah.

  • Daniel84020 Draper, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 10:31 a.m.

    The problem with the "the-Constitution-says-so" argument: It assumes that a very limited and historically questionable interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is unfailingly correct.

    In the very sentence that grants the right to arms, it also says the purpose of that right is for the states to maintain a well regulated militia. We can argue about what that means, but it actually meant very different things to different founders and records indicate parts of the constitution were left intentionally vague in order to be ratified by the different states. So to say this means people can have weapons carte blanche and that it can't mean anything else seems reckless.

    Most of us would probably agree this right does not apply to prisoners or three-year-old boys. It probably also doesn't apply to nuclear warheads.

    The fact that regulation is mentioned in tandem with the right is interesting. I believe it's totally possible to have guns more regulated without infringing on the rights of honest people to own a gun. Much like the government requires a fair amount of regulation on my car, but the intention is not to keep me from owndership.

  • RockOn Spanish Fork, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 10:35 a.m.

    Knee-jerk KSL. In that mental illness and violent video games are part of the 3-legged stool, is KSL going to suspend sales of violent video games?

    A remember, about the same time in China a mentally ill fellow went into a children's classroom and stabbed about 20 children. What would KSL's reaction be to this...other than not reporting it like they didn't do.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 11:09 a.m.

    Daniel, buddy. "A well regulated Militia, (new subject due to the comma) being necessary to the security of a free State, (new subject) the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, (new subject) shall not be infringed". The Second Amendment for those of you in Rio Linda.

    From my reading of the Federalist Papers on this subject, a period should have been put after "free State", which would have totally changed the meaning of the 2nd Amendment to make a lot more sense.

    My interpretation of the 2nd Amendment? A well regulated Militia is essential to a free State (country). The right of the common people to bear arms is a valid right and that right can't be infringed. This amendment covers two different subjects.

    This whole issue is like someone failing to wear a required article of supportive clothing in gym class. Everyone gets punished for one persons bad behavior. Not the way a free society should operate.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 11:49 a.m.

    Yes, lets change the punctuation to make it fit "My interpretation." Denied!

    Your analogy about gym clothes is also a very poor comparison.
    Not wearing your jock doesn't get the rest of the class killed.

    When was the last time someone killed somone with a video game?

    and finally when you have to refer to KSL as "liberally mainstream bias" It shows how far to the right you've fallen.

  • Thefullnancy SOUTH JORDAN, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 11:58 a.m.

    The majority of the sales in the counties with the highest population, who would have thought. The real question is per capita.

  • SLC gal Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 12:00 p.m.

    I think this is a good idea. Most of the issues with gun control in our country stem from the fact that it's TOO easy for criminals to get them - illegally. Not saying KSL is selling them illegally, but it doesn't seem like there are too many controls in place to make them all legal sales.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Dec. 19, 2012 12:39 p.m.

    When airplanes crashes -- and authorites can't determine the cause -- they ground the fleet worldwide.

    Sorry for the temporary inconvience folks....

  • 22ozn44ozglass Southern Utah, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 1:20 p.m.

    Flash Back. I too have spent considerable time and effort reading and researching the Federalist papers as well as the Constitutional Conventions and the ratification process of the Constitution, and it is very clear that the Colonists wanted to limit the powers of government and that a key part of limiting the power of government was to allow the common man the freedom to keep and bear arms.

    The British monarch tried to disarm the colonists prior to and in the early stages of the Colonists war for independence from Britain, and many of the prominent figures in the ratification process made it clear that citizens must have the right to defend themselves and must have the ability to fight any government which tried to deprive them of their Constitutional liberties and freedoms even if that ended up being the very government which they were creating at the time.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 2:13 p.m.

    get your guns now folks while you still can as America moves closer and closer to the communist model. Can't wait for the jack booted government thugs to kick your door down and seize your guns by order of comrade Obama. George Orwell was right... just 25 years too soon in his prediction.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 19, 2012 2:34 p.m.

    re:LVIS

    What are the sources for the statistics you cite?

    Every stat (from UN sources) I've seen for Japan's homicide rate is significantly below 1/100,000. More like .3-.5/100,000 while the U.S. homicide rate is between 4-5/100,000. The UK's homicide rate had a high of 2.1/100,000 in 2002 with a steady decline since then to 1.2 in 2009.

    Who is pedaling unsubstantiated myths?

    Sources please.

  • TwistedNerve Ontario, CA
    Dec. 19, 2012 3:26 p.m.

    "Due to recent gun violence, KSL.com is restricting access to guns so that law abiding citizens have less venues to obtain protection from said violence."

    If you want to protect people from gun violence, make guns easier to get so that more law-abiding citizens can protect themselves. The correct action to take should have been along the lines of:
    "Due to recent gun violence, KSL.com is providing FREE/UNLIMITED listings for the sales of guns so that a greater number of people can have access to them."

    Why is it that the most heinous acts of gun violence have been committed in gun-free zones? The answer is that the criminals know where they are safe from a couter-attack and self-defending people.

  • LVIS Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 19, 2012 3:41 p.m.

    re: "Truthseeker"--

    Japan data: 1996 Demographic Yearbook, United Nations, 1998; US data: FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1996

    Britain data: "The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.", Daily Mail, July 3, 2009, citing a joint report of the European Commission and United Nations

    You may want to look at more stats. And please, provide more than simply "Every stat I've seen". A bit more concrete, please.

    What unsubtantiated myths are you pedaling?

    Aren't statistics fun?

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 19, 2012 4:39 p.m.

    re:LVIS

    My data, found easily on the internet, came from the UN Office on Drugs and Crimes. It contains data for many countries, multiple years, including Japan in 1996 with a intentional homicide rate of .5.

    I have not been able to pull up on the internet the UN 1996/1998 Demographic Yearbook showing Japan's homicide rate. What does come up are multiple pro-gun sites, purportedly quoting from the UN Demographic yearbook. But even those show Japan with a homicide rate of .6/100,000 not the 1/100,000 you claim.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 20, 2012 8:49 a.m.

    Why stop there

    why not also stop

    Violent vidio games

    Ads for day care centers

    editorials advocating that government cut back on social services for the mentally ill

  • HotGlobe SAN RAFAEL, CA
    Dec. 22, 2012 10:44 a.m.

    "This being Christmas vacation, children's right to stay home shall not be infringed." Everybody understands what that means, right? So now read the second amendment and tell me what it means, given that we have a standing army and a militia is not necessary.

    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."