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Drafter of Utah Compact calls document 'gold standard' for fixing nation's immigration problems

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  • DN Subscriber 2 SLC, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 9:11 p.m.

    It may qualify as "fool's gold" standard as it is nothing more or less than a deceptively packaged scheme for amnesty.

    If we are going to allow ignoring the law to become the accepted behavior, then let's make it apply to all laws, for everyone. Tax laws first!

    No amnesty, under any name, for any reason!

    If the is what you are selling, at least have the integrity to be honest about what it is, not the innocent sounding "Utah Compact."

  • JayTee Sandy, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 9:23 p.m.

    The "Utah Compact" is a Utah embarrassment. It's a line-by-line revelation of how people with some stature are apparently incapable of both clarity in thought and also fairness in policy. I wouldn't be jumping up and bragging about endorsing this, because it is a total disaster, and the joke is on the Utah taxpayer and worker. But at least we know exactly where some people stand on the sticky issue.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 9:29 p.m.

    Speaking of integrity and honesty there DN Subscriber 2

    The LDS Church strongly supported the Utah Compact.
    I also supported it.

    Ironically, Utah Republicans - mostly Mormons - most likely yourself included -- rejected it and their advise.

    Go figure.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Dec. 4, 2012 10:05 p.m.

    LDS Church First Presidency Statement:
    As a worldwide church dealing with many complex issues across the globe, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints promotes broad, foundational principles that have worldwide application. The Church regards the declaration of the Utah Compact as a responsible approach to the urgent challenge of immigration reform. It is consistent with important principles for which we stand:

    We follow Jesus Christ by loving our neighbors. The Savior taught that the meaning of “neighbor” includes all of God’s children, in all places, at all times.
    We recognize an ever-present need to strengthen families. Families are meant to be together. Forced separation of working parents from their children weakens families and damages society.
    We acknowledge that every nation has the right to enforce its laws and secure its borders. All persons subject to a nation’s laws are accountable for their acts in relation to them.
    Public officials should create and administer laws that reflect the best of our aspirations as a just and caring society. Such laws will properly balance love for neighbors, family cohesion, and the observance of just and enforceable laws.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Dec. 4, 2012 10:17 p.m.

    I believe the Church's position on this is exactly right. We can have strong borders and humane laws and policies. They are not mutually exclusive.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Dec. 4, 2012 11:04 p.m.

    "JayTee
    Sandy, UT
    The "Utah Compact" is a Utah embarrassment. It's a line-by-line revelation of how people with some stature are apparently incapable of both clarity in thought and also fairness in policy. "

    So JayTee, you think the list that support the Utah Compact are "people with some stature are apparently incapable of both clarity in thought"?

    LDS Church First Presidency
    Governor Norm Bangerter
    Deborah Bayle, United Way of Salt Lake
    Lane R. Beattie, Salt Lake Chamber
    Mayor Ralph Becker, Salt Lake City
    Kenneth Bullock, Utah League of Cities and Towns
    Mayor Wilford W. Clyde, Springville City
    Mayor Peter Coroon, Salt Lake County
    Karen Crompton, Voices for Utah Children
    Wes Curtis, Utah Center for Rural Life, Southern Utah University
    Jeff Edwards, Economic Development Corporation of Utah
    U.S. Senator Jake Garn
    Mayor Matthew R. Godfrey, Ogden City U.S. Congressman James Hansen
    The Right Rev. Bishop Scott Hayashi, Episcopal Church in Utah
    Rev. Steven Klemz, Pastor, Zion Evangelical Lutheran
    Paul Mero, Sutherland Institute
    Mark Shurtleff, Attorney General
    Governor Olene S. Walker
    The Most Rev. John C. Wester, Bishop of the Salt Lake City Catholic Diocese
    Mark H. Willes, CEO/President, Deseret Management Corp.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 11:20 p.m.

    FEDERAL SOLUTIONS --it's not just the Feds anymore with 11 of Arizona's 14 points of law in effect. Some solutions are at the state level.

    LAW ENFORCEMENT-- Again, the Supreme court has dismissed two of the compacts points. Local law enforcement can ask, if a person is stopped for another reason.

    FAMILIES The past several years many American families have been separated to find work. Up to 1965 we allowed the person, spouse, and children to come here on one green card. Now all of the extended family can come, over 32 people for each green card. This is a windfall for business to flood our labor pool and depress wages. It also makes it impossible for people without relatives here to get green cards. Is that fair to them? We need to return to the immediate family, not the extended family.

    ECONOMY Utah's business community wants cheap labor.

    A FREE SOCIETY ??? double talk. A free society does not mean a lawless one.

    About 5,000 people signed it out of 3 million. You can't fool all of the people all of the time.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 11:46 p.m.

    Most of the Compact authors also pushed the guest worker bills in direct conflict. It's all about business and illegal labor.

    Since the LDS religion has been brought into the discussion, let's not forget what our Prophets told us about coming here illegally, and how to handle it.
    D&C 42: 79, 84-86
    84 And if a man or woman shall rob, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.
    85 And if he or she shall steal, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.
    86 And if he or she shall lie, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.

    There is nothing inhumane about deporting people, jail, or fines. It is a deterrent to further law breaking. Families that come here LEGALLY to be together, might have to wait for some to join them. Allowing people to come here when they want shows a lack of compassion to others that come legally.

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 1:01 a.m.

    Good or bad, the Utah Compact was ignored when Utah drafted the 4 immigration laws in 2011. That was one of the reasons the Catholic Bishop wasn't excited about them. I find it pretty hypocritical to sell the Utah Compact as something it wasn't.

    If we are going to have a line for people to come to this country, you can't reward those that bypass the line. They need to be sent to the back of the line. That doesn't mean you should stop treating them like people. I am in favor of simplifying and fixing legal immigration.

  • one day... South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 1:50 a.m.

    Why put the economy blame on immigrants, sure WE pay lower wages and no benefits to them, but saying that they take our jobs and our money it's a lie, same lie the germans used against the jews, the government needs to fix this, everyone can contribute, citizens, perm.residents and immigrants.
    Have you think about the money that can generate if immigrants have proper documentation here, they will be able to work, pay for insurance, rent, mortgage, buy cars, pay for school, college, it's about investing! plus we will know who is here, and those one that are criminals will be deported. Honestly, it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 6:19 a.m.

    The Utah Compact engages in the doublespeak that lumps immigrants with illegal aliens as though they were the same. The attempt is to cast a pall of bigotry on those who want our immigration laws enforced. It is a non sequitur to imply that pro-enforcement means anti-immigrant.
    Further, to suggest that pro-enforcement advocates are not compassionate is offensive and judgmental.
    I simply look at the Utah Compact as a statement by people who want cheap labor and higher attendance at church.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 7:48 a.m.

    @JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt

    The statement you quote is NOT a First Presidency statement, as you claim. NOWHERE on or attached to the statement is found the names or signatures of the First Presidency. Look again; you won't find them.

    Many wise members of the Church understand the doctrinal requirement of proper priesthood authority and the requirement of specific invocation of said authority in matters of new church doctrine, policy, and posture, and noticed the utter lack of either in connection with the statement you quoted. Those members rejected the deceitful and intellectually dishonest Utah Compact accordingly. The statement of support was a product of the NON-priesthood Public Affairs Department -- nothing more. "...BY THOSE WHO ARE IN AUTHORITY..." (Article of Faith #5)

    @Twin Lights

    The notion, insinuated by some, that enforcement of U.S. immigration law is inhumane, is a lie. Similarly, the notion that the commandment to "love thy neighbor" trumps Article of Faith #12 (obeying the laws of the land), is false doctrine. "Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath NO need to break the laws of the land." (Doctrine and Covenants 58:21, upper caps mine)

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:06 a.m.

    "human dignity"

    Human dignity includes respecting oneself and one's neighbor by respecting the laws and customs of society.

    "The only way you pass Arizona-style laws is misinformation and flat-out lies," Shurtleff said.

    The above statement is itself a lie.

    Utah Compact "defined a higher moral ground."

    The Utah Compact is a deceitful document which obfuscates its pro-illegal, anti-enforcement agenda behind a guise of morality. For example, its supposed "compassion" extends only to illegal aliens -- not to their numerous victims. Rewarding illegality is not compassion.

    "...separate families..."

    Persons who are deported as a consequence of their illegal choices are perfectly free to take their children with them.

    "For Utah's elected leaders to bury their heads in the sand would be 'an embarrassment,' said Mero."

    It is interesting to note Mero using a "shame technique" not dissimilar to what he has FREQUENTLY used against persons who believe in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law.

    "The use of the word 'anchor baby' when we're talking about a child of God is offensive."

    What is offensive is foreign nationals scoffing at the laws and customs of a sovereign nation with a view of taking advantage of it.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:30 a.m.

    We already live in Northern Mexico. They'll come in droves now.

    The funny thing is, people think this is about hate. Nope. It has EVERYTHING to do with the rescue boat being crowded and overloaded...and eventually sinking taking everybody with it.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:01 a.m.

    I see so many LDS members - "Hie on the Road to Apostacy".
    I especially liked RRB trying to use LDS scripture to call-out the LDS 1st Presidency.

    Try reading JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt comment -- he nailed it,
    but you'll still deny it.
    Amazing.

    Bye Bye.

    I'm taking a wild guess here, but I'll bet some of these same folks are also the one's signing Petitions to Secede from the Union, think Global Warming is a Hoax, and the Pres. Obama has no birth certificate and "stole" the last election. But that's purely my guessing...

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:13 a.m.

    Anti-Liar,

    If you have a problem with the concept of these folks being our neighbors or the need to treat them humanely (and humane treatment could certainly include a wide variety of policies) your problem is not with me. It is with the First Presidency.

    If you really think the “The statement of support was a product of the NON-priesthood Public Affairs Department” in that someone went rogue on this issue, you are living in a fantasy world. The statement would have been retracted and someone disciplined.

    You are free to disagree. But please do not delude yourself into thinking this is not an official Church position.

    Reality folks, please. Reality.

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:46 a.m.

    America has changed.
    Maybe if those who can't accept the fact that white people are no longer in charge, could attempt to put on a happy face and think of the United States as a Crayola crayon box with a multitude of beautiful colors.

    And..... more importantly, not everyone is "bad" and is taking your job.
    All better now?

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    Dec. 5, 2012 10:12 a.m.

    Why is Utah writing a law for immigrants? Are we to a point that we think all immigrants are illegal? Compacts like this do severe injustice to our neighbors who come here according to law and proper procedure, legally.

    I am opposed to any laws that disparage or ignore those great immigrants who came the right way. Illegal immigration is a federal crime. Even the LDS church tells it's foreign members to not come to America unless they can do it legally.

    I do favor laws that are compassionate towards illegal immigrants, especially in preserving families, but amnesty is not the answer, it wasn't in the 80's, it won't work now. In addition any resolution should not include citizenship. How to become a citizen has already been established. Citizenship should be wanted and desired, not looked upon as a handout.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 10:51 a.m.

    "The statement would have been retracted and someone disciplined."

    Pure conjecture, Twin Lights. Sorry, but the mere absence of a formal retraction does NOT make a statement an official utterance of the First Presidency. No go. And the Public Affairs Department has NO inherent priesthood authority WHATSOEVER. Once again, and deny it all you will, but the requirement of authority, authenticity of authority, and specific invocation of authority, is a basic cornerstone of LDS doctrine.

    And once again, the notion that upholding the law is inhumane, is a lie (Article of Faith #12, Ten Commandments 8, 9, and 10, D&C 58:21, and D&C 42:79, 84-86). The U.S. has the most generous immigration laws in the world. The opportunity of the typical illegal alien to put his affairs in order and return to his lawful country of residence WITHOUT having to suffer fines, jail or prison time, or confiscation of property, is exceptionally lenient.

    "...concept of these folks being our neighbors..."

    And WE are THEIR neighbors, too, Twin Lights. In other words, good neighborliness works both ways. This includes THEM loving THEIR neighbors, and respecting the borders, laws, and customs of a sovereign nation.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 11:53 a.m.

    Why don't we just bury our heads in the sand and open the southern border. That is in effect what the Utah Compact does.

    Shurtleff needs a personality change. His saying that the term "anchor babys" is offensive to the children of God who comprise illegal aliens is a crock of crap. That is exactly what they are. Note the recent stories of Chinese women coming here to have their babies. Shouldn't be allowed to happen and those babies shouldn't be citizens. I'd be in favor of a partial change of the first line of the 14th Amendment. Change it to "All persons born in the U.S. are citizens if, their parents are legal immigrants, or are not on a Tourist or Student Visa."

    It does seem that the 12th Article of Faith is being ignored.

    Why doesn't the Federal Government just enforce the last law passed during Reagan's time in office. That was the last significant immigration law that was passed. Nothing has changed since then except the numbers.

  • Bill Tibbitts Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 12:08 p.m.

    The Utah Compact was a great statement of principles and the people who drafted it deserve credit for improving the quality of the discussion about immigration in Utah.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 1:00 p.m.

    Space here doesn't allow me to go into a whole lot of details concerning the Utah Compact and the state legislation that followed.

    In short, "anti-liar" has gotten everything he said right.

    There was a MASSIVE amount of lobbying that went on behind the scenes with the legislature 2 yrs. ago that resulted in the (worthless) legislation passed. I think those who passed it understand its' worthlessness.

    Advocates for illegal alien trespassers want NEITHER amnesty nor, obviously, enforcement. They are more than happy with the status quo.
    IF amnesty occurred (which I'm not endorsing BTW)the unethical/illegal employers would be forced to begin withholding taxes and paying at least a minimum wage.

    Why would they want that? Better for them to pay 4-5$ per hr. and since that obviously isn't a living wage, the REST of us get to pay the real costs to support a family.

    Its too bad one of the local papers doesn't do an in-depth story on what happened vis-a-vis the "Utah Compact" and the resulting state legislation.

    Sadly BOTH local daily papers are advocates for illegal alien trespassers, so it will never happen.

  • Summer Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 1:27 p.m.

    @LDS Liberal
    "I see so many LDS members - "Hie on the Road to Apostacy".
    ------------

    Your comments are noted, we should consider Christ-like love in this. However, those opposing the compact have real concerns also. Simplistic answers fall short.

    I have lived on the west side of SLC for over 40 years. I have seen the neighborhood steadily decline in quality and crime steadily increase. I cannot separate these trends from the increased influx of illegal immigrants.

    I have seen US workers laid off while being replaced by foreign workers on visas. I have seen wage depression thus driving US workers into poverty. This often leads to break ups of the family, abuse, etc (never underestimate what negative things poverty can do to a family.)Much is due to illegal and even legal immigration that is used as a cheap-labor source.

    Most people wish to be more accommodating to immigrants, but the lower middle class pays the price by losing employment, their neighborhood, etc, while the wealthy benefit. No wonder so many oppose this.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 3:04 p.m.

    Summer
    SaltLakeCity, UT
    @LDSLiberal

    I have lived on the west side of SLC for over 40 years. I have seen the neighborhood steadily decline in quality and crime steadily increase. I cannot separate these trends from the increased influx of illegal immigrants.

    I have seen US workers laid off while being replaced by foreign workers on visas. I have seen wage depression thus driving US workers into poverty.

    ===================

    I grew up in Bountiful.
    I visited my old neighborhood recently.
    It's still 99.99% White-Anglo-Saxon-Mormon.

    It's run down now and the crime rates have gone up too,
    so I cannot associate these trends directlty to the increased influx of illegal immigrants as you claim.
    How do you explain the exact same thing happening in Bountiful WITHOUT illegal immigration?

    If you don't like Companies hiring illegal or foreign workers -- blame the businesses that HIRE them.

    We didn't have this problem when we had UNIONS.
    Unions wouldn't ever allow this to happen in the 1st place.

    So, We have 2 solutions --
    Punsih companies who hire them,
    or
    play EastGermany communists and build concrete walls, fences and machinegun nests.

    FYI - (Socialist) Canada doesn't have this problem. WonderWhy?

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Dec. 5, 2012 3:09 p.m.

    Anti-Liar,

    You think MY position is pure conjecture?

    I agree that the Public Affairs Department has no specific priesthood authority but are those folks just running their own show independent of any priesthood review? They have access to all of the media outlets and appear to them (and hence the world) to represent the Church but they are purely working on their own? There is no oversight by the First Presidency or Quorum of the 12? I would find that beyond shocking.

    BTW, the US does not have “generous” immigration laws. We haven’t for a long time. And it depends a lot on which country you are from and how many of your countrymen are here already. Also, it is expensive. I knew a young man from Canada with a current job in the US. He wanted to marry a US citizen and become a citizen himself. He reports that the cost would have been about $10,000.

    And yes, we are all each other’s neighbors. Period. Full stop.

  • Belching Cow Sandy, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 3:21 p.m.

    Don't worry Obama is working on the illegal immigration problem. By the time 2016 rolls around there will be no reason for illegals to come to the USA, they'll be better off in Mexico.

  • jim l West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 3:23 p.m.

    you can color amnesty with a lot of different crayons.

  • Kim Cedar Park, Texas
    Dec. 5, 2012 3:44 p.m.

    Nice try anti-liar, but you are wayyyy off base if you think that the statement of the first presidency issued by the public affairs department does not represent the official position of the church.

  • Summer Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 4:33 p.m.

    @LDS Liberal
    ------------

    "I grew up in Bountiful.
    I visited my old neighborhood recently.
    It's still 99.99% White-Anglo-Saxon-Mormon."

    I wouldn't call Bountiful "run down" like you did. Apparently you don't know what run-down means. I would love if the west-side of Salt Lake was like Bountiful. There is no comparing Glendale/Rose Park and Bountiful.

    "If you don't like Companies hiring illegal or foreign workers -- blame the businesses that HIRE them."

    They have been "blamed". It does nothing to stop them. Enforcement of existing laws is needed.

    "Unions wouldn't ever allow this to happen in the 1st place."

    Unions are pro-illegal immigration. They are part of the problem.

    "play EastGermany communists and build concrete walls, fences and machinegun nests."

    Given that some of those crossing our border are hard criminals with horrible intentions, we have no other choice.

    "FYI - (Socialist) Canada doesn't have this problem. WonderWhy?"

    Canada doesn't border a 3rd world nation.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 4:34 p.m.

    @lds Liberal.

    The Church position has always been for people to obey the law. There is nothing wrong with demanding that people follow the laws, or suffer the consequences. Quoting scripture is not an apostacy. Nice try at attacking the person instead of the issue.

    The Compact was written in secrecy as a tool for promoting illegal immigration for cheap surplus labor. It is one of the most deceptive instruments of the pro-illegal groups rhetoric.

  • JayTee Sandy, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 5:03 p.m.

    A statement or piece of work is to be valued based on its content, not the number of people who have been hoodwinked into thinking it's some kind of declaration of compassion. I don't really care who allowed their name to be used on this thing--the obvious fact is that it is designed as a collaboration between two factions: (1) the bleeding hearts, who think the whole planet can live off of the American worker and taxpayer and it's high time we just shut up and anted up, and (2) the cheap-labor lobby, who have worked hard to fool lawmakers and many others into believing that their motives are pure and altruistic. If I endorsed anything like this, I'd be very reluctant to actually admit it. It doesn't take a mental giant to figure out that this is an effort to circumvent both common sense and also the sanity and solvency of our society.

  • hermounts Pleasanton, CA
    Dec. 5, 2012 5:12 p.m.

    Before we start "reforming" immigration laws, we have to start enforcing them!

  • prelax Murray, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 5:26 p.m.

    Our immigration is not broken, it's not being enforced. The 1986 and 1996 reform laws have never been enforced. There is no reason to try another reform, until we enforce the first two.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Dec. 5, 2012 6:00 p.m.

    You all against the Compact think the statement on the LDS Church's website concerning such a large issue was somehow ignored, kept from or otherwise bypassed LDS Church Leaders? Stop with all the semantics because this didn't get posted without President Monson looking at it. Look it up, it is on the LDS Church website and Bishop Burton was charged with encouraging others on behalf of the Church to take it seriously.

    Yet none of you Republicans have a problem with one of your own being a (in your terminology) "Anchor Baby" and Mia Love even ran for that House of Rep. seat. Seems to be ok when someone who agrees with your politics does it.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Dec. 5, 2012 6:08 p.m.

    ""Belching Cow Sandy, UT
    Don't worry Obama is working on the illegal immigration problem. By the time 2016 rolls around there will be no reason for illegals to come to the USA, they'll be better off in Mexico."""

    Sorry "Belching Cow" but Corporate PROFITS are AT AN ALL TIME HIGH. Look it up if you dare come out of your bubble.

    President Obama has deported more people in 4 years than GW Bush did in 8. All the while being handcuffed by complaining Republicans complaining about the budget.

    The Compact calls for compassion and reason, that is why the LDS Church is on board with it and that is why I support it also. It is interesting to me to watch the same people who criticize fellow LDS Church Members for not fully supporting LDS Church leaders on other issues are now the ones on the other side of the fence.

  • Bob Pomeroy Bisbee, AZ
    Dec. 5, 2012 6:58 p.m.

    so many disappointing narrow minds.

  • prelax Murray, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 7:28 p.m.

    @JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt

    "The statistics are actually a little deceptive," Obama said last month during a discussion with Hispanic journalists. There has been "a much greater emphasis on criminals than non-criminals." And "with stronger border enforcement, we've been apprehending folks at the borders and sending them back. That is counted as a deportation even though they may have only been held for a day or 48 hours." Marketing tactics, remove those turned back at the border and you have less than Bush returned. Those returned at the border before Obama were counted in a different catagory.

    At the same time, Obama is letting in more people than ever before. In 2011 we let in 3.3 million visa workers. With over 1 million green cards every year, and 23 million legal Americans looking for work, our laws are beyond generous.

    The compact is a diversion to keep us from talking about the issues. If the people behind it really cared, they would be trying to keep people from coming here illegally, and making matters worse. They lack compassion, and would do anything to get more cheap labor.

    narrow minds? attack the person, ignore the issues.

  • Belching Cow Sandy, UT
    Dec. 6, 2012 8:38 a.m.

    @JJJHS
    "Sorry "Belching Cow" but Corporate PROFITS are AT AN ALL TIME HIGH. Look it up if you dare come out of your bubble."

    Sorry but you seem to be the one in a bubble. But don't worry, your bubble is fixing to get burst. The economy is in terrible shape. More and more people I know are getting laid off. The company I work for has froze salaries and done away with bonuses while cost of living continues to increase. This year is the first year in my companies 20 year history that it has lost money. My house has lost $60,000 in value over the last four years. I have quite a few friends that are small business owners and Obama's policies have hurt every one of them. And just wait till Obamacare kicks in, what a nightmare that will be.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2012 1:41 p.m.

    @Kim
    @VST
    @JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt

    Again, the statement put out by the Public Affairs Office IS NOT an official statement of the First Presidency. Show me the signatures.

    The Public Affairs Department can REFER to official First Presidency statements all day long. But it has no right to set forth NEW doctrine, policy, nor posture (support for the Compact, for example). Only the First Presidency has that right (Handbook, 21.1.29), and then only with the unanimous approval of the Twelve (D&C 107). This means that the Presiding Bishop does not have the right to speak for the church either.

    "Stop with all the semantics because this didn't get posted without President Monson looking at it."

    Pure speculation. But even if he did, express INVOCATION of the authority of the First Presidency still is required. Yes, invocation of authority matters. Notice that we don't dispense with invocation of authority in the case of blessings, prayers, and ordinances, either. Nor do we dispense with signatures in society. Many documents are regarded as void without them.

  • Global Warner Provo, UT
    Dec. 7, 2012 11:57 a.m.

    I’m grateful for the many Utahns who are thoughtful, rational, and see the vital need for a coherent and ethical approach to immigration reform. I don’t think the Utah Compact goes far enough in protecting the rights and well-being of our brothers and sisters from Latin America and elsewhere. Having labored among them in Utah to help create jobs, healthcare, education, and other services over the decades, I know most are good people who simply seek a better life for their families. Utah and Arizona critics who attack and/or disparage them are mostly out of touch with reality. As their comments suggest, they are seemingly racists and/or show evidence of being afraid. I salute the LDS Church, other religious leaders, and responsible public officials who believe immigrants are our brothers and sisters. The beauty of a democracy is that the majority can vote and lobby for their values. In Utah in particular, and America in general, we need a more Christian society. It’s clear that many faithful believers will help us make the Gospel a deeper and more meaningful part of our culture as we treat the “least among us” better.

  • Wm. VanderWerff Draper, Utah
    March 25, 2013 8:53 a.m.

    When ever I see all of our so called leaders come together and endorse a document like the Utah-Compact, I can't help being suspicious of their, self promoting, motives. The Utah-Compact has no standing in law, is full of high sounding fluff, and fails to suggest solutions. Our founders were not so vague. They were precise and to the point. Their arguments and declarations took positions that jeopardized their lives and fortunes. More importantly the were meaningful and fruitful.

    A sovereign nation's most defining aspect is citizenship and border definition. The failure on the part of our leadership to uphold both values is criminal and traitorous. That said, we are where we are. The remedies taken should not punish the children for the sins of their parents. Deporting those, who have lived their formative years here, brought here by law breaking parents, is a violation of common sense and righteous principles; however, any path to citizenship for the children should include rigorous indoctrination of our constitutional principals and the history of it's founding. The parents should not be given citizenship but should have probationary visas without recourse to full citizenship or the right to vote.