I thought we were still in a recession?
It will be interesting to see if what Obama says he said are the same things
Herbert says he said. Experience has shown that Obama pretends to listen to
those who speak to him (except Brewer of Arizona), then goes about his business
on the same "wrong" track as he was headed before the meeting. The
governors don't butter his bread. His left-wing socialist liberals do, in
the same way that Reid and Pelosi work. And the other side is not a speck
better. Boehner wouldn't recognize a good idea unless it came from his
side of the aisle by a very few he actually listens to, and ONLY if it were
different than what is proposed by the President. I have no use and no respect
for any of them. But alas, America voted them all in - again.
we wouldn't even be talking about a fiscal cliff if Romney were president.
The self imposed fiscal cliff deadline would have been extended until a new and
sane president would have easily negotiated a settlement between parties. Just
more Obama insanity.
So, Gov, tell your Utah delegation to stop the games. Entitlements are not
problem, despite what the GOP is saying. (We have a Social Security and a
Medicare tax in place). The problem lies elsewhere, and the fact that the GOP
wants to suck the money from SS and Medicare should show their true intentions.
Sen. Coburn (R-OK) wrote a report called "Welfare for the Rich and
Famous." Think the GOP will pick this low hanging fruit? No way. They
WANT welfare for wealthy, at our expense. So, no whining from the GOP. Step it
Good grief Patriot,the country hasn't been in recession for more than two
years. You need to check your facts before you make a comment. And look beyond
Fox News for a change.If the Gov. wants to avoid the Fiscal Cliff
then he should make his displeasure known to the Republican Party. They are the
ones that are holding the county hostage, genuflecting to the great and
omnipotent poohah Grover Norquist, who has never been elected to anything. Those sour grapes must be mighty tasty these days Patriot and Cinci Man
The possibility of an agreement between the Republicans and Democrats regarding
the "fiscal cliff" has become more of a possibility, as several
Republican Tea Party legislators have been removed from the budget committee.
A leader of the Tea Party movement just quit, as well. He may not suffer
much, as he comes away with a more than generous financial package to sooth his
Mike in Cedar CitySour grapes for what? You made an assumption that
couldn't be further from the truth. How easy it is for you to cast a stone
without the facts. And you chastise Patriot and then do the very same thing.
You are too funny. Both sides are equally disinterested in any bipartisan
solution to any major problem in this country, unless every point in the
agreement is precisely what their party put forward. Please explain how the
Democrats are better than the Republicans in that space, or vice versa if
that's your pleasure. Obama couldn't get his deals through when his
party was in control of both houses. Hmm. Explain that too. And please
explain how he avoided the 8%+ unemployment he guaranteed he could avert. And
please explain why he lied about having immigration reform legislation before
Congress his first year. He promised. And you probably voted for him again. I
didn't vote for him or Romney. Neither party will fix the problems. There
are no sour grapes when you know Americans want a losing plan.
Esquire, sorry but you are dead wrong. SS and Medicare are going broke,
Medicare much faster,perhaps in less than 10 years. They both suck funds from
the general fund. Further, other entitlements not only cost us money but
create the culture that harms our economy by removing motivation for personal
solutions. and Mike in CC: the GOP is trying to keep the country
from bankruptcy while the Dem's have it running over the cliff. We have
to quit spending!
I like the idea of giving flexibility to governors to reach broad national goals
on education or healtcare etc. Then, if they dont work within a period of time
(4 yrs?) the states agree to do it the way the national government has outlined.
Would that be acceptible to governors?
Social Security was self sufficient until it was moved into the general fund
during the Johnson and Nixon Administrations to help fund the Vietnam War... If
Romney had won Social Security would have taken an addition hit when Romney
moved it into the private sector.That's all we need. Social Security
in the Stock Market? Even Republican know that's not a good investment.
As I stated before, the deal is already drafted and will be a last-second
"rescue" for which everyone will claim credit as they bash the opposite
party. Political postering is so vouge and statemanship is so passe' in
the world of government and running the country.I have to agree that
the US Congress is a sorry bunch when it comes to doing the people's
business. Why in the world we re-elected ANY of them is beyond me. Just think how mad people would be in they knew what really goes on in
Washington. But then they'd shrug it off and go on in the same usual
manner, I suppose, just like the 68% who hated Obama-Care but subsequently
seemed to forget all about it at the polls this past November..
A recession is technically defined as two straight quarters of negative growth.
However, for many Americans the recession is a little more than this
technicality. It has a lot to do with buying power, employment (under or un in
too many cases), consumer confidence, and overall standard of living. I could
argue that we haven't been out of the recession since the fall of 2008 and
just because the Dow goes up or some Wall Street dudes are making money
doesn't mean it isn't a recession for the majority of us.As for the fiscal cliff, it's funny that Herbert says this when in
reality it will be the House Republicans that will ultimately decide whether we
go off this cliff.Finally, who knows, going over the cliff might be
a good thing in the long run.
I read yesterday in the DN that Governor Herbert wants a 32% pay raise the first
of the year, along with others wanting increases on his staff. I think the
legislature had best put that on hold. How I would like that kind of a raise. I
don't think that substantial of a raise would set well with the people of
Utah at all right now.
Howard BA good thing in the long run? You can't be serious.
Unless you think the Great Depression was a "good thing" in the long
run, or that leaving a gold-standard is a good thing, or that run-away
inflation, massive debt, stagflation and poverty are desirable, too.
That's what we're facing and even if a few politicians finally admit
they were wrong I'd hate to see the masses suffer greatly because of their
incompetence.Remember that a member of Congress gets a $150,000
annual pension for life after serving a measly two years in the House of
Representatives and unbelievable health care (not the type we're saddled
with) because they literally write their own checks. Gosh, wouldn't that
be nice, as we run the ship of state aground? But they are worth
it---right?---because, after all is said and done, they were "elected"
by the people. (See my above post regarding how smart the 'people'
were this election.)
What a neato trip for the Guv.Neato - but useless; other than a nice
junket at taxpayer expense.The money would have been better used donated
to the homeless shelter.The Pres. couldn't care less what our
If the Governor really cared about going over the cliff he would have had a
statement about David Bird's proposal that the Governor should get a 36.6%
salary increase, plus perks. The Governor should say that the group shold not
increase the salary at all and wait a year to see what happens with the economy.
He was with all those Governors and wanted to make a statement.
The most likely didn't know that the David Bird group had proposed a 36.5%
salary increase for our Governor and other 3 top elected state officials. The
salary is probably lower than the other Governors but Governor Herbert knew that
when he was Lt. Governor and then Governor and especially when he chose to run
for Governor again. The $85,000 supposedly didn't flow this time but he
definitely had many times more dollars than his opponents in the race. This is sort of like President Obama getting free campaign publicity
while going around with the Governor of New Jersey after Hurricane Sandy. That
Governor's tactics sure helped the President within hours of the election
day with the main networks and PBS ensuring they got his name and face on.
Yeah, a good thing in the long run. But I might be coming from more of a liberal
philosophy then you think. I think our military could be downsized a lot with
effecting our national security. There is plenty of waste in government. It
force us to look at medicare, medicaid and social security which definitely
needs to be retooled. Do I doubt there will be pain? But as a former athlete,
sometimes pain and sacrifice was necessary for me to grow as an athlete. But bottom line, we don't know what will happen. You could even
argue that this "debt" issue is overrated as we have had a budget debt
since the early 1960's and maybe three balanced budgets for a year in that
time period. I can go along with that argument. There's a
lot about the fiscal cliff NOT to life most certainly, like the tax rate
increases especially. But there is probably some good aspects to it as well,
like it or not.
Civilizations come and go based on their values, value system, honesty,
integrity, and fiscal responsibilities. When the king comes and takes all your
wheat and gives you nothing in return, that king has all the power. He
doesn't care at the time that you don't have anything but eventually,
he won't either as the productivity goes down and goes down fast. Social ills have become reality instead of GNP in the United States of
America. However, the GNP was what you needed in order to take from the rich to
give to the poor since Robin Hood, theoretically. Our President
wants to be the one and only, sort of like what King Tut in Egypt is doing with
his current process of gutting the military and the court system. He will end
up with a martial law sort of system with the power in a vacuum? It
is ironic that Egypt was one of the first places President Obama went in 2009 to
show how much power he just obtained being President and then getting the
coveted Nobel Peace Prize. The President deals with people's
lives by policies or lack of policies and a budget.Happy Year
1. It fun to listen to Republicans complain about Republicans.2.
Gov. Herbert is worried because Utah TAKES in more from the Federal Government
than it put out.Utah is set-up for a HUGE loss if a budget isn't
Still Blue, you really need to stop parroting GOP talking points, the welfare
party of the rich. The money from SS and Medicare is being siphoned off. You
have it backwards. Funny how the GOP wants to take from the less affluent but
don't want their stuff touched. How obvious can you get?
EsquireAre you sure they don't also want some of the 49% that
pay nothing to start to pony up even a few bucks instead of just take, take,
Cinci Man. Even the most unlearned in this country know that the hold up on the
so called "fiscal cliff" is due to the intransigence of the Tea Party
wing of the Republican Party. We had an election, and the electorate knew full
well, outside of the Fox News bubble, and it seems, Kentucky, that the
President's plan to get our fiscal house back in order was a balanced
approach calling for spending cuts and a return to the tax rates for the top 2%
that were in effect under Clinton when we had a budget surplus. Elections have
consequences. You and Patriot discount that in your comments. Patriot is
moaning that the problem would just disappear if only Romney were elected. You
disparage both Parties but reserve your special venom for those nasty socialist
Democrats. And Yes, that is sour grapes by any definition. And when you talk of
all Obama's so called broken promises, your talking points come right out
of Fox News - which is nothing more than the Media arm of the Republican Party.
I repeat, we are no longer in recession, but we could return to that if Norquist
gets his way.
@Esquire:"The problem lies elsewhere, and the fact that the GOP wants
to suck the money from SS and Medicare should show their true
intentions."It isn't the GOP that has sucked the money from
SS. It is the Democrats.The reason that there is a problem in
social security is because the government has transferred the money from social
security into the general government revenues. That could be maintained as long
as more SS revenue was coming in than waa going out. The situation is that now
there is a shortfall and the only way to make it up is to raise taxes and to cut
spending elsewhere.The Republicans are not that liberal. But we
have this vision of the Newt Gingrich and the Koch brothers raiding social
security and giving an evil laugh about being evil geniuses, etc. It is more
like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid doing the same thing. The sooner we realize
this the sooner we will have a truly liberal party in the US to counteract the
Do all elected officials become numerically numb when they take office?We are happy to see our governor go to Washington and be heard. However he
goes and asks for the states to have more say in how the federal dollars are
spent in each state but then he is going to vote himself a 33% pay raise next
month.The numerically numb disease seems to affect each party the
same.It is sad to see two parties who have proven they cannot be
trusted with taxpayer money be in charge of first getting the country to the
point of the fiscal cliff and now they are responsible for us avoiding or going
over it.Mitt Romney could have won the election hands down had he
been able to stand and say he would balance the budget in 3-4 years. Instead he
got mired in the bickering of the parties, his sales pitch became anemic and
unclear how he would be different than our current president and as a result we
have the same mess we have had for years.Neither party wants to fix
the problem as it will reflect change and cause pain.
Yet our Republican Senators, Lee and Hatch, and our Representatives, Bishop,
Chafetz all say that going over the cliff is what SHOULD happen.Why?
They probably don't have a reason, but it will gain them a bit more
publicity and perhaps some additional support from the extreme right wing.
@ EsquireWelfare for the "wealthy"? It seems to me that I
pay 35% Federal Taxes, 5% Utah Taxes and a myriad of other small business taxes
the equate to more than half of my income. How much do you pay? Is this
welfare for me? No. I guarantee that I will have paid hundreds of thousands of
dollars into social security that I will never see in the future. People, like
you, will vote to take away that money from me. Why is this fair? What is your
fair share? How about a flat tax with no loopholes for ANYONE. Sounds fair to
me. The fiscal cliff will increase my Federal tax to 42%. If I have to hurt,
all of us should hurt. Let's hit the cliff and see how the 47% feel when
they suddenly have to pay Federal taxes. Socialism hasn't ever worked. It
doesn't work. It will never work.
Gov Herbert look like you are going have to cut your pay raise after your 36%
pay hike. My wife who happens to be a teacher got pay cut (all teachers) of ONE
PERCENT this year. How did that happened? Don't leave the children behind.
"Gov. Gary Herbert left the White House on Tuesday thinking he might have to
prepare two state budgets — one if the nation tumbles over the so-called
fiscal cliff and one if it doesn't."And we needed to pay to
send him to Washington DC to learn this?I could have told him that
from my own laptop here in Utah! Sheesh! Talk about wasteful
Does this mean the last 5 years of no raises and shortened hours has all been in
my head? That we haven't already been in a recession?
Does he mean a depression? I swear this country is nothing more than a
I say let's fall over the cliff. Utah will fare much better than any other
state and then the country will see the results of their Obama folly.
Let's do this!
@LDS Liberal"It fun to listen to Republicans complain about
Republicans."It's almost as fun as listening to Utahns
complain about Utahns.
mdCache, UT@ EsquireSocialism hasn't ever worked.
It doesn't work. It will never work.9:42 a.m. Dec. 5, 2012============ I disagree -- City of EnochMoses and the Children of Israel1st century Christians1st century
Nephites/LamanitesAmericas PilgrimsJoseph Smith / Brigham Young and
the United Orderenacted by Jesus Christ himself...Having ALL things
is CommonBTW - Our U.S. Military is Socialist, and FYI -
Families are Socialist too.So I can only imagine Heaven being fully
Socialist/Communist as well.Socialism as a pratice is a correct and
true principle, The PEOPLE who can't seem to follow it are the
Prepare and submit the budget that keeps Utah off the Federal welfare rolls. Too many layers and too many redistributions of tax payer's money.
I think that there should be plenty of opportunity for compromise. Whatever
program is agreed upon should be applicable to all the government personnell.
No special benefits for Senators or Congressmen. Whatever health plan,
retirement plan, or tax plan we get they should get. Oh and no double dipping
should be allowed unless we get to receive the same benefits.
Aargh, it is long past time we have an adult conversation with ourselves and our
government over the financial issues we are facing. Gov. Herbert is oh so
concerned with a loss of $500 million when our federal government is borrowing
over $1.1 Trillion per year. The so-called growth we are seeing is bought and
paid for with public debt to the tune of $1.1 Trillion. Honestly, can we just
keep borrowing and borrowing to provide the illusion of growth and just keep
kicking the can on all the big issues and fighting over the little ones.
md of Cache, UT, read the report before you pontificate on it. Clearly you