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On Washington visit, Gov. Gary Herbert says falling off fiscal cliff could put Utah into recession

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  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 3:20 p.m.

    I thought we were still in a recession?

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    Dec. 4, 2012 3:21 p.m.

    It will be interesting to see if what Obama says he said are the same things Herbert says he said. Experience has shown that Obama pretends to listen to those who speak to him (except Brewer of Arizona), then goes about his business on the same "wrong" track as he was headed before the meeting. The governors don't butter his bread. His left-wing socialist liberals do, in the same way that Reid and Pelosi work. And the other side is not a speck better. Boehner wouldn't recognize a good idea unless it came from his side of the aisle by a very few he actually listens to, and ONLY if it were different than what is proposed by the President. I have no use and no respect for any of them. But alas, America voted them all in - again.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 3:24 p.m.

    we wouldn't even be talking about a fiscal cliff if Romney were president. The self imposed fiscal cliff deadline would have been extended until a new and sane president would have easily negotiated a settlement between parties. Just more Obama insanity.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 3:49 p.m.

    So, Gov, tell your Utah delegation to stop the games. Entitlements are not problem, despite what the GOP is saying. (We have a Social Security and a Medicare tax in place). The problem lies elsewhere, and the fact that the GOP wants to suck the money from SS and Medicare should show their true intentions. Sen. Coburn (R-OK) wrote a report called "Welfare for the Rich and Famous." Think the GOP will pick this low hanging fruit? No way. They WANT welfare for wealthy, at our expense. So, no whining from the GOP. Step it up.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Dec. 4, 2012 3:56 p.m.

    Good grief Patriot,the country hasn't been in recession for more than two years. You need to check your facts before you make a comment. And look beyond Fox News for a change.

    If the Gov. wants to avoid the Fiscal Cliff then he should make his displeasure known to the Republican Party. They are the ones that are holding the county hostage, genuflecting to the great and omnipotent poohah Grover Norquist, who has never been elected to anything.

    Those sour grapes must be mighty tasty these days Patriot and Cinci Man

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    Dec. 4, 2012 4:02 p.m.

    The possibility of an agreement between the Republicans and Democrats regarding the "fiscal cliff" has become more of a possibility, as several Republican Tea Party legislators have been removed from the budget committee.
    A leader of the Tea Party movement just quit, as well. He may not suffer much, as he comes away with a more than generous financial package to sooth his wounds.

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    Dec. 4, 2012 4:09 p.m.

    Mike in Cedar City

    Sour grapes for what? You made an assumption that couldn't be further from the truth. How easy it is for you to cast a stone without the facts. And you chastise Patriot and then do the very same thing. You are too funny. Both sides are equally disinterested in any bipartisan solution to any major problem in this country, unless every point in the agreement is precisely what their party put forward. Please explain how the Democrats are better than the Republicans in that space, or vice versa if that's your pleasure. Obama couldn't get his deals through when his party was in control of both houses. Hmm. Explain that too. And please explain how he avoided the 8%+ unemployment he guaranteed he could avert. And please explain why he lied about having immigration reform legislation before Congress his first year. He promised. And you probably voted for him again. I didn't vote for him or Romney. Neither party will fix the problems. There are no sour grapes when you know Americans want a losing plan.

  • Still Blue after all these years Kaysville, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 4:13 p.m.

    Esquire, sorry but you are dead wrong. SS and Medicare are going broke, Medicare much faster,perhaps in less than 10 years. They both suck funds from the general fund. Further, other entitlements not only cost us money but create the culture that harms our economy by removing motivation for personal solutions.

    and Mike in CC: the GOP is trying to keep the country from bankruptcy while the Dem's have it running over the cliff. We have to quit spending!

  • Outsideview Federal Way, WA
    Dec. 4, 2012 4:23 p.m.

    I like the idea of giving flexibility to governors to reach broad national goals on education or healtcare etc. Then, if they dont work within a period of time (4 yrs?) the states agree to do it the way the national government has outlined. Would that be acceptible to governors?

  • owlmaster2 Kaysville, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 4:41 p.m.

    Social Security was self sufficient until it was moved into the general fund during the Johnson and Nixon Administrations to help fund the Vietnam War... If Romney had won Social Security would have taken an addition hit when Romney moved it into the private sector.
    That's all we need. Social Security in the Stock Market? Even Republican know that's not a good investment.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 4:42 p.m.

    As I stated before, the deal is already drafted and will be a last-second "rescue" for which everyone will claim credit as they bash the opposite party. Political postering is so vouge and statemanship is so passe' in the world of government and running the country.

    I have to agree that the US Congress is a sorry bunch when it comes to doing the people's business. Why in the world we re-elected ANY of them is beyond me.

    Just think how mad people would be in they knew what really goes on in Washington. But then they'd shrug it off and go on in the same usual manner, I suppose, just like the 68% who hated Obama-Care but subsequently seemed to forget all about it at the polls this past November..

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 4:44 p.m.

    A recession is technically defined as two straight quarters of negative growth. However, for many Americans the recession is a little more than this technicality. It has a lot to do with buying power, employment (under or un in too many cases), consumer confidence, and overall standard of living. I could argue that we haven't been out of the recession since the fall of 2008 and just because the Dow goes up or some Wall Street dudes are making money doesn't mean it isn't a recession for the majority of us.

    As for the fiscal cliff, it's funny that Herbert says this when in reality it will be the House Republicans that will ultimately decide whether we go off this cliff.

    Finally, who knows, going over the cliff might be a good thing in the long run.

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 4:46 p.m.

    I read yesterday in the DN that Governor Herbert wants a 32% pay raise the first of the year, along with others wanting increases on his staff. I think the legislature had best put that on hold. How I would like that kind of a raise. I don't think that substantial of a raise would set well with the people of Utah at all right now.

  • Why would I? Farmington, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 5:00 p.m.

    Howard B

    A good thing in the long run? You can't be serious. Unless you think the Great Depression was a "good thing" in the long run, or that leaving a gold-standard is a good thing, or that run-away inflation, massive debt, stagflation and poverty are desirable, too. That's what we're facing and even if a few politicians finally admit they were wrong I'd hate to see the masses suffer greatly because of their incompetence.

    Remember that a member of Congress gets a $150,000 annual pension for life after serving a measly two years in the House of Representatives and unbelievable health care (not the type we're saddled with) because they literally write their own checks. Gosh, wouldn't that be nice, as we run the ship of state aground? But they are worth it---right?---because, after all is said and done, they were "elected" by the people. (See my above post regarding how smart the 'people' were this election.)

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 6:13 p.m.

    What a neato trip for the Guv.

    Neato - but useless; other than a nice junket at taxpayer expense.
    The money would have been better used donated to the homeless shelter.

    The Pres. couldn't care less what our Guv. says.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 6:44 p.m.

    If the Governor really cared about going over the cliff he would have had a statement about David Bird's proposal that the Governor should get a 36.6% salary increase, plus perks. The Governor should say that the group shold not increase the salary at all and wait a year to see what happens with the economy.

    He was with all those Governors and wanted to make a statement. The most likely didn't know that the David Bird group had proposed a 36.5% salary increase for our Governor and other 3 top elected state officials. The salary is probably lower than the other Governors but Governor Herbert knew that when he was Lt. Governor and then Governor and especially when he chose to run for Governor again. The $85,000 supposedly didn't flow this time but he definitely had many times more dollars than his opponents in the race.

    This is sort of like President Obama getting free campaign publicity while going around with the Governor of New Jersey after Hurricane Sandy. That Governor's tactics sure helped the President within hours of the election day with the main networks and PBS ensuring they got his name and face on.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 6:56 p.m.

    Yeah, a good thing in the long run. But I might be coming from more of a liberal philosophy then you think. I think our military could be downsized a lot with effecting our national security. There is plenty of waste in government. It force us to look at medicare, medicaid and social security which definitely needs to be retooled. Do I doubt there will be pain? But as a former athlete, sometimes pain and sacrifice was necessary for me to grow as an athlete.

    But bottom line, we don't know what will happen. You could even argue that this "debt" issue is overrated as we have had a budget debt since the early 1960's and maybe three balanced budgets for a year in that time period. I can go along with that argument.

    There's a lot about the fiscal cliff NOT to life most certainly, like the tax rate increases especially. But there is probably some good aspects to it as well, like it or not.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 7:33 p.m.

    Civilizations come and go based on their values, value system, honesty, integrity, and fiscal responsibilities. When the king comes and takes all your wheat and gives you nothing in return, that king has all the power. He doesn't care at the time that you don't have anything but eventually, he won't either as the productivity goes down and goes down fast.

    Social ills have become reality instead of GNP in the United States of America. However, the GNP was what you needed in order to take from the rich to give to the poor since Robin Hood, theoretically.

    Our President wants to be the one and only, sort of like what King Tut in Egypt is doing with his current process of gutting the military and the court system. He will end up with a martial law sort of system with the power in a vacuum?

    It is ironic that Egypt was one of the first places President Obama went in 2009 to show how much power he just obtained being President and then getting the coveted Nobel Peace Prize.

    The President deals with people's lives by policies or lack of policies and a budget.

    Happy Year

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 8:29 p.m.

    1. It fun to listen to Republicans complain about Republicans.

    2. Gov. Herbert is worried because Utah TAKES in more from the Federal Government than it put out.
    Utah is set-up for a HUGE loss if a budget isn't passed.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 9:36 p.m.

    Still Blue, you really need to stop parroting GOP talking points, the welfare party of the rich. The money from SS and Medicare is being siphoned off. You have it backwards. Funny how the GOP wants to take from the less affluent but don't want their stuff touched. How obvious can you get?

  • Why would I? Farmington, UT
    Dec. 4, 2012 11:23 p.m.

    Esquire

    Are you sure they don't also want some of the 49% that pay nothing to start to pony up even a few bucks instead of just take, take, take?

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Dec. 5, 2012 2:36 a.m.

    Cinci Man. Even the most unlearned in this country know that the hold up on the so called "fiscal cliff" is due to the intransigence of the Tea Party wing of the Republican Party. We had an election, and the electorate knew full well, outside of the Fox News bubble, and it seems, Kentucky, that the President's plan to get our fiscal house back in order was a balanced approach calling for spending cuts and a return to the tax rates for the top 2% that were in effect under Clinton when we had a budget surplus. Elections have consequences. You and Patriot discount that in your comments. Patriot is moaning that the problem would just disappear if only Romney were elected. You disparage both Parties but reserve your special venom for those nasty socialist Democrats. And Yes, that is sour grapes by any definition. And when you talk of all Obama's so called broken promises, your talking points come right out of Fox News - which is nothing more than the Media arm of the Republican Party. I repeat, we are no longer in recession, but we could return to that if Norquist gets his way.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Dec. 5, 2012 7:00 a.m.

    @Esquire:
    "The problem lies elsewhere, and the fact that the GOP wants to suck the money from SS and Medicare should show their true intentions."

    It isn't the GOP that has sucked the money from SS. It is the Democrats.

    The reason that there is a problem in social security is because the government has transferred the money from social security into the general government revenues. That could be maintained as long as more SS revenue was coming in than waa going out. The situation is that now there is a shortfall and the only way to make it up is to raise taxes and to cut spending elsewhere.

    The Republicans are not that liberal. But we have this vision of the Newt Gingrich and the Koch brothers raiding social security and giving an evil laugh about being evil geniuses, etc. It is more like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid doing the same thing. The sooner we realize this the sooner we will have a truly liberal party in the US to counteract the Republicans.

  • Doug10 Roosevelt, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 7:40 a.m.

    Do all elected officials become numerically numb when they take office?

    We are happy to see our governor go to Washington and be heard. However he goes and asks for the states to have more say in how the federal dollars are spent in each state but then he is going to vote himself a 33% pay raise next month.

    The numerically numb disease seems to affect each party the same.

    It is sad to see two parties who have proven they cannot be trusted with taxpayer money be in charge of first getting the country to the point of the fiscal cliff and now they are responsible for us avoiding or going over it.

    Mitt Romney could have won the election hands down had he been able to stand and say he would balance the budget in 3-4 years. Instead he got mired in the bickering of the parties, his sales pitch became anemic and unclear how he would be different than our current president and as a result we have the same mess we have had for years.

    Neither party wants to fix the problem as it will reflect change and cause pain.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:24 a.m.

    Yet our Republican Senators, Lee and Hatch, and our Representatives, Bishop, Chafetz all say that going over the cliff is what SHOULD happen.

    Why? They probably don't have a reason, but it will gain them a bit more publicity and perhaps some additional support from the extreme right wing.

  • md Cache, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:42 a.m.

    @ Esquire
    Welfare for the "wealthy"?
    It seems to me that I pay 35% Federal Taxes, 5% Utah Taxes and a myriad of other small business taxes the equate to more than half of my income. How much do you pay? Is this welfare for me? No. I guarantee that I will have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars into social security that I will never see in the future. People, like you, will vote to take away that money from me. Why is this fair? What is your fair share? How about a flat tax with no loopholes for ANYONE. Sounds fair to me. The fiscal cliff will increase my Federal tax to 42%. If I have to hurt, all of us should hurt. Let's hit the cliff and see how the 47% feel when they suddenly have to pay Federal taxes. Socialism hasn't ever worked. It doesn't work. It will never work.

  • DEW Sandy, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:48 a.m.

    Gov Herbert look like you are going have to cut your pay raise after your 36% pay hike. My wife who happens to be a teacher got pay cut (all teachers) of ONE PERCENT this year. How did that happened? Don't leave the children behind.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:58 a.m.

    "Gov. Gary Herbert left the White House on Tuesday thinking he might have to prepare two state budgets — one if the nation tumbles over the so-called fiscal cliff and one if it doesn't."

    And we needed to pay to send him to Washington DC to learn this?

    I could have told him that from my own laptop here in Utah!

    Sheesh! Talk about wasteful spending.

  • toshi1066 OGDEN, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 12:11 p.m.

    Does this mean the last 5 years of no raises and shortened hours has all been in my head? That we haven't already been in a recession?

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Dec. 5, 2012 12:23 p.m.

    Does he mean a depression? I swear this country is nothing more than a welfare/police state.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 1:16 p.m.

    I say let's fall over the cliff. Utah will fare much better than any other state and then the country will see the results of their Obama folly. Let's do this!

  • Belching Cow Sandy, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 3:28 p.m.

    @LDS Liberal
    "It fun to listen to Republicans complain about Republicans."

    It's almost as fun as listening to Utahns complain about Utahns.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 3:48 p.m.

    md
    Cache, UT
    @ Esquire

    Socialism hasn't ever worked. It doesn't work. It will never work.

    9:42 a.m. Dec. 5, 2012

    ============

    I disagree --

    City of Enoch
    Moses and the Children of Israel
    1st century Christians
    1st century Nephites/Lamanites
    Americas Pilgrims
    Joseph Smith / Brigham Young and the United Order

    enacted by Jesus Christ himself...Having ALL things is Common

    BTW - Our U.S. Military is Socialist,
    and FYI - Families are Socialist too.

    So I can only imagine Heaven being fully Socialist/Communist as well.

    Socialism as a pratice is a correct and true principle,
    The PEOPLE who can't seem to follow it are the failure.

  • Darth Vader Ogden, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 7:34 p.m.

    Prepare and submit the budget that keeps Utah off the Federal welfare rolls.

    Too many layers and too many redistributions of tax payer's money.

  • BYU Papa Cedar Hills, ut
    Dec. 5, 2012 7:46 p.m.

    I think that there should be plenty of opportunity for compromise. Whatever program is agreed upon should be applicable to all the government personnell. No special benefits for Senators or Congressmen. Whatever health plan, retirement plan, or tax plan we get they should get. Oh and no double dipping should be allowed unless we get to receive the same benefits.

  • wiltstilt Lehi, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:33 p.m.

    Aargh, it is long past time we have an adult conversation with ourselves and our government over the financial issues we are facing. Gov. Herbert is oh so concerned with a loss of $500 million when our federal government is borrowing over $1.1 Trillion per year. The so-called growth we are seeing is bought and paid for with public debt to the tune of $1.1 Trillion. Honestly, can we just keep borrowing and borrowing to provide the illusion of growth and just keep kicking the can on all the big issues and fighting over the little ones.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Dec. 6, 2012 8:45 a.m.

    md of Cache, UT, read the report before you pontificate on it. Clearly you didn't.