Quantcast
Sports

Utah Utes football: Utes close 'up and down' season on a good note

Comments

Return To Article
  • Troy06 OREM, UT
    Nov. 24, 2012 9:56 p.m.

    Way to go Utah. Nice job ending the season on a win. Hopefully next season all the teams will rise to their potential.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 24, 2012 10:10 p.m.

    good way to finish, looking forward to nest year

    GO UTES

  • IRS Agent PROVO, UT
    Nov. 24, 2012 11:33 p.m.

    Congrats Utes on a decisive victory over your new rival. What a perfect pairing of powerhouses to cap off an awesome season. I cant wait for next years version of the rumble in the rockies. I'm giddy with anticipation.

    Chris B. - I am picking Colorado in a wild finish in next years game. Clorado 38 Utah 35. Mark it down. You must be proud of your PAC12 power conference.

  • 86&90UTE Holladay, UT
    Nov. 25, 2012 1:09 a.m.

    @IRS Agent
    A rivalry needs three ingredients. First, geographic proximity. BYU yes, Colorado yes. Second, close, hard fough games. BYU yes, Colorado yes. Third, both teams winning roughly an equal number of recent games. Colorado yes, BYU not even close, losing 8 of 11 to Utah!!! Utah knows who it's new rivalry is!!!!

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 25, 2012 10:31 a.m.

    86/90ute

    Does this mean the Ute fanbase is moving on and will now start following and comparing everything to Colorado now? I seriously doubt it.

    9th place, no bowl game and trending lower since last year is not the direction I would suspect reasonable Ute fans were hoping for.

    While BYU continues to trend upward in improving its schedule as an independent I will enjoy seeing the Utes struggle as the proverbial PAC12 bottom dweller as BYU continues to get more exposure and respect as the new independent willing to play anyone. 2013 and beyond is shaping up quite nicely. I hope the team rises to the schedule.

    It might take a few more years for success but I'm willing to enjoy the ride as most loyal Byu fans are. Another couple of losing seasons in Uteville and we will see empty seats at RES.

    The majority of the fanbase in Utah is BYU's, even you closet followers.

    I seriously doubt that you Ute fans are following Colorado... except to the basement of the PAC12

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 25, 2012 11:58 a.m.

    Sammy,

    You don't get respect for scheduling good teams. You get respect for beating good teams. Something BYU is incapable of doing, especially on a consistent basis. If you think we are following CU to the basement than must also think BYU is following Army into irrelevance....

    Also your empty seat jab is completely hallow. Most teams see more empty seats during down years. In fact, we're already seeing a ton of empty seats in LES. What is it, three sellouts in your last 13 home games? Meanwhile Utah has sold out 18 straight. If BYU was trending up and Utah was on the decline wouldn't those numbers be reversed?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 25, 2012 1:23 p.m.

    @two for flinching

    utah's "sellouts" are fine but they do not equate to actual attendence which is substantially less than capacity for the last few games. You see BYU can average 60,000 in actual attendance and still be 15,000 higher than utah has in a sellout. Meanwhile if anything less than 45,000 attend a utah game they are exposed, and they have been exposed. That means utah has less, far less, than even 45,000 actual "fans".

    In otherwords utah is absolutely trending down. We have seen the loyalty of the utah "fan"base at the hc, we are starting to see it trend that way at res. So much for expanding that crackerbox, you guys need to start worrying about even filling it with your fall into the bottom of the pac12.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 25, 2012 3:16 p.m.

    You think BYU announces actual attendance? BYU says that 61,000 people attended the BYU-Idaho game. Judging by the pictures is it fair to say that BYU only has 40,000 actual fans as well?

    I've been to every Utah home game this season and the stadium was full for all six games. The only empty part is the upper Southeast corner in the MUSS. That is because everyone moves a section over to stand with friends or to "share" closer seats.

  • AK UTE Palmer, AK
    Nov. 25, 2012 4:41 p.m.

    Nice win Utes way to finish strong....lets improve this off season and have a great year next season.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 25, 2012 4:45 p.m.

    Flinched

    You don't get respect for scheduling good teams. You get respect for beating good teams. Something Utah is incapable of doing, especially on a consistent basis these first two years in 'big boy' football.

    It is obvious that the Utes have followed CU to the basement as several us knew would happen. Your new rivalry is a keeper and the Utes for the second time had great difficulty in playing a 10 loss team.

    Know one knows what will happen with BYU's tougher schedule but I'm happy for it but we know these teams are looking for something other than the Northern Colorado's for their schedules and not running away from BYU scheduling.

    I'm sure you're very happy for some well deserved Ute r&r. We all are. LOL

  • Qwest Perfected Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 25, 2012 5:06 p.m.

    That was a great game to watch and I was happy to see Utah finally get a road win this year.

    As far as the usual byu "fans" on here talking about Utah comparing ourselves to them or our program declining etc, I find it so ironic after the lousy season your team just finished up with. Yes byu had a few more wins but they also played Idaho and New Mexico State to get those wins. Never mind how quickly you all forget that the two teams played head to head. Lets just do everyone a favor and not use the "if we had started" or "we gave you the game by turning it over" and so on and so on. It gets old. Your mighty team had one good win all season against Utah State so yeah I guess the y is really "trending upwards" as you say.

    Utah will be just fine as they continue to get better and better recruiting classes, finish their football facility and expand their stadium all while the big money starts coming in from being a member of a real conference.

    Go Utes!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 25, 2012 5:43 p.m.

    @two for

    False. The papers reported it is far less, the utah fans I know told me it was far less, and I saw it on tv and it was obviously far less. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Your attempt to claim otherwise is funny though, shows the insecurity inherent in the tenuous "fan" base up there.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 25, 2012 6:11 p.m.

    Troll harder, Sammy

    Utah earned respect by beating good teams. While in the MWC Utah had more wins over BCS opponents than any other mid-major. An accomplishment highlighted by the BCS bowl wins. We know it pains you but that is part of the reason Utah is in the position they are in today and why BYU is on the outside looking in.

    Admittedly, Utah is going through some growing pains in their new conference right now, but most Ute fans are supportive of the program and still believe Utah can be a winner in the PAC-12. You clearly think so as well, otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to troll Utah articles.

    Utah's SOS is 26 and BYU's is 57th. But you're right, Utah plays a weak schedule and don't let facts tell you otherwise.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 25, 2012 6:22 p.m.

    Duckhunter

    Go find the article titled, "Utah Utes football: Utes fall to Arizona, won't go bowling for first time in 10 years" By Dirk Facer. It was published on Saturday, 11/17/12. Look at pictures 36-39. You will clearly see RES is packed despite the 8 p.m. kickoff and rain earlier that afternoon. Sorry to call out your sources, but it's not easy to argue with a picture....

  • A Man's Perspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 25, 2012 7:34 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    "Your attempt to claim otherwise is funny though, shows the insecurity inherent in the tenuous "fan" base up there."

    ----
    What I would call "insecure" are BYU fans putting down a program that BYU has lost to 4 out of the last 5 times - the one lone victory being a squeaker in overtime 3 years ago. This has been pointed out to you at least 100 times but you ignore it. If you are concerned about the anthill while Mt. Everest is staring you down, then your ability to understand facts and logic is sorely lacking. Which makes your points about Utah completely irrelevant and absurd.

  • D4inSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 25, 2012 8:06 p.m.

    Duck,
    The fans you talked to we're "fans". I was there as well - Looked full to me. So after we play in provostan next year, do think Samantha will stop trolling? Hope so.....it's tiresome.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Nov. 25, 2012 9:51 p.m.

    I have to admit, I didn't expect Utah to finish in the bottom of the PAC. I also didn't think they would challenge USC for the Southern Crown like some were saying. I figured U would finish in the middle of the PAC (5-8). But then again, I didn't expect to see the USC Trojans as a possible invitee for the New Mexico Bowl.

    I think the big concern for the Utes is the PAC itself. The conference really struggled for almost a decade. I still remember the Saturday when 5 MWC teams beat 5 PAC10 teams several years ago. But the conference seems to be getting stronger now.

    Washington, UCLA, Arizona are all significantly improved. ASU and WSU even seem to be getting better. Oregon, USC and Stanford will continue to be strong.

    Not a shot at the two schools, but Utah and Colorado really could anchor the bottom of the PAC for quite a while unless the two schools make some changes.

    PS - This is not a comparison of BYU vs Utah, just an observation of the PAC12. I realize BYU needs plenty of improvements to match their new BCS-like schedule in 2013.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 26, 2012 7:48 a.m.

    @CougfaninTexas

    I think your take is fairly accurate. The PAC 12 had a great year, and Utah had a down year. That's the way it goes. Hopefully the Utes will be on the upswing next year. I also wanted to thank you for your constructive comments. The usual Utah haters just come on here to take pointed shots at the program. I don't think Utah will anchor the bottom of the PAC 12 either; but we shall see. Take Care Guy

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 26, 2012 9:20 a.m.

    Spokane Ute :(

    I'm traveling to SLC today, will I see 9th place pennants anywhere? LOL

  • Down under Pullman, WA
    Nov. 26, 2012 9:33 a.m.

    Nice work Utes. Way to finish strong. Enjoy watching the big brothers down south in their bowl game. You can thank the WSU Ciuges and the mighty Buffs for allowing you to finish in 9th place. Where may I see the trophy??

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 26, 2012 9:52 a.m.

    @sammyG

    If you get a window seat on the short bus you might. 8-)

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 26, 2012 10:00 a.m.

    I noticed BYU took 3rd out of 4 independents this year. Talk about Banner worthy. Is BYU's bowl game going to be televised on PBS? What a season to brag about. Well, atleast they beat Utah. Oh, wait a minute.....

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    Nov. 26, 2012 2:17 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    The BYU-San Diego State Poinsettia Bowl game will be played December 20 in San Diego's Qualcomm Stadium (ESPN, 8 p.m.).

    The Utah State-MAC Famous Idaho Potato Bowl will be played December 15 in Boise's Bronco Stadium (ESPN, 12:30 p.m.).

    The Utah couch potato bowl will be played sometime during the bowl season in somebody's basement in West Valley City.

    ------

    I noticed that Utah only finished one spot lower in the PAC 12 standings this year, so there's still room to sink even lower when U add Oregon and Stanford next season.

  • Utes22 SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Nov. 26, 2012 2:33 p.m.

    Thanks for the win on the last game of the season Utes. Will miss not seeing you in a bowl this year but that will happen from time to time. Here's to a great off season and a great year next year.
    Go Utes!!!

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 26, 2012 3:08 p.m.

    Flinched

    "...but that is part of the reason Utah is in the position they are in today..."

    At the time the Utes became the 'plan B' for the PAC10 expansion I honestly thought the Utes could compete but not at the level or hype of the greater Ute fan base already expanding the trophy cases to accept PAC12 Division, PAc12 and Rose Bowl trophies.

    Nothing could be further from the truth about the Ute level of play after 2 years.

    "Admittedly, Utah is going through some growing pains..."

    I'm not sure it's growing pains or just the chronic pain of being beaten up all the time. What is going to change for the Utes??? Until recruiting steps up another notch to the 4 star level and a 5 star once in a while it is only reasonable to assume that things will be about the same. Coaching is not improving is it?

    Just because of a couple of miracle seasons in the MWC does not mean a team can perform at the same level in the PAC.

    It's what several of us have said all along to counter the silly chest pounding of the fantasy successful Ute football program.

  • Jazzledazzle Provo, UT
    Nov. 26, 2012 5:50 p.m.

    @ Sammy G

    I am a BYU fan, but BYU fans like you are why I flirt with switching over and being a Utah fan. I like both teams but I cheer for BYU when they play. I am LDS, and yes that is why I cheer for BYU. However, I love my great state of Utah also, so I like the U a lot too.

    How can you say BYU is trending upward????? A loss at San Jose State and I don't care what kind of a record they have, you have hit rock bottom when you lose to San Jose state. Terrible coaching moves all year. Terrible qb is Riley Nelson. Trending upward? Yeah playing in the Poinsettia Bowl against San Diego State is really trending upward.

    Don't forget Utah beat BYU this year. So if you want to talk about what a bad year the Utes had, just think, BYU had a pretty bad year too and Utah beat BYU again. Please just be an educated fan. Utah and BYU are pretty equal this year. Both had disappointing years and both fan bases know it. Utah State is probably the best this year of all 3.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 26, 2012 6:06 p.m.

    Sammy,

    Utah has shown the ability to do more with less during their time in the MWC. With the huge revenue increase and state of the art training facility that is being built I think Utah will be able to better compete for recruits. We've already seen a boost in the recruiting just by being in the PAC.

    Also, just because a team has a ton of 4 and 5 star recruits does not make them invincible. Look at Utah/Alabama, BYU/OU, or even TCU?Texas this year. An even better example is Arizona beating USC a few weeks ago.

    Utah was competitive in most of its games this season. I think they are another strong recruiting class or two away from putting it together and I still have confidence that Coach Whittingham and his staff can get it done.

  • Mt Rushmore Arlington, VA
    Nov. 26, 2012 9:52 p.m.

    Two For Flinching

    "While in the MWC Utah had more wins over BCS opponents than any other mid-major."

    A "bcs" team is NOT necessarily a good or even a mediocre team, sometimes they are downright awful - see Colorado, Washington State, etc., etc.

    How many ranked "bcs" teams with winning records did Utah beat on the road?

    We know for a fact that Utah hasn't had a road win over a PAC 12 team with a winning record since the 90's.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 26, 2012 10:36 p.m.

    Mt. Rushmore

    You are misunderstanding my point. BCS teams have advantages over mid-majors. More money, prestige, access to better bowls, etc. You name it, they have it. I agree those things don't automatically make them better teams, even though the BCS teams "should" be better. My point is that Utah was more successful than many BCS teams and most mid-majors despite the disadvantages that come with being a mid-major.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 27, 2012 7:48 a.m.

    JazzleDazzle,

    Great post. As a Utah fan, I too have pulled for both BYU and Utah over the years. However, the constant hate by a select group of BYU fans on this forum have made it difficult for me to pull for them at all. I still beleive that most BYU fans are pretty good sports, just not the ones who troll these threads. It's as if they spend more time hating on Utah, than supporting BYU. I don't get it?

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 27, 2012 8:21 a.m.

    Two For Flinching

    BYU has been more successful over the last 40 years than the vast majority of "bcs" teams.

    How many "bcs" teams have had 18 or more Top 25 finishes since 1977 (that's over 50%)?

    How many have won a national championship?

    How many have won a Heisman trophy?

    How many have won both a national championship AND a Heisman Trophy?

    How many have had 15 or more national individual award winners?

    How many have had 6 or more players inducted into the National College Football Hall of Fame?

    How many have only had four losing seasons in the last 40 years?

    If you're honest in your tabulating the results you'll see that there are only a dozen or so teams spread across all of the major conferences that match or exceed the overall success that BYU has enjoyed since LaVell became BYU's head coach in 1972.

    Even with Utah's "dominance" in recent head-to-head matchups, the Utes still fall short of BYU's overall success.

    Top 25 Finishes
    Bronco 5
    Kyle 3

    Top 15 Finishes
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 1

    Conference Championships
    Bronco 2
    Kyle 1

    Bowl Games
    Bronco 8
    Kyle 7

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 27, 2012 9:11 a.m.

    Jazzledazzled

    If you follow my posts you will see one of my most recent posts that ends with...

    "BYU much the same" It was in reference to both teams 'stellar' seasons.

    I have also called these lower bowl games recently as "insignificant".

    So before spouting off that I heap extraordinary praise upon BYU you should read a little deeper and follow a little closer on my posting.

    "Trending upward" is in reference to scheduling as I also stated that I hoped the team rose to schedule injecting some doubt but since we're on a Ute story any discussion here would also infer... better than Utah at the moment.

    Final rankings by others than biased fans are the true measure of performance. Not just one game. After both teams miserable seasons (another term I used in another recent post) BYU gets a bowl game and the Utes don't.

    So there you have it, no 'hate' intended, just the facts and the truth.

    And for icing on your cake... no Direct TV for the Pac12. Happy Holidays.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2012 9:16 a.m.

    @phoenix

    You left out a few:

    BCS Bowl wins:
    Kyle 1
    Bronco 0

    Top 5 finishes:
    Kyle 1
    Bronco 0

    Bowl wins:
    Kyle 6
    Bronco 5

    Head to head (BYU vs. Utah):
    Kyle 5
    Bronco 3

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 27, 2012 9:35 a.m.

    @ TheSportsAuthority

    Yes, and BYU took 3rd out of 4 independents; so there's still room for BYU to sink below Army. I look forward to your excuses after SDSU beat's BYU. 7-5 and pounding your chest like youv'e actually done something.....classic!

  • Jazzledazzle Provo, UT
    Nov. 27, 2012 9:57 a.m.

    This is a fun rivalry and I hope both schools figure out a way to continue it after the hiatus.

    I don't agree Utah ended on a good note. They barely beat a terrible Colorado team. For that matter, BYU did not end on a good note either. A loss at San Jose State, a meaningless win over NM State. BYU gets a bowl game which again is against San Diego State, meaningless bowl game.

    As a fan of both teams I can say I love the rivalry and the hostility. Where it gets annoying to me is delusional BYU fans who think BYU is way better than they are, and Utah fans who hate BYU because of the whole religion thing. That is going to far. Whittingham went to BYU and probably a third of your roster served a mission, so that just does not make sense.

    I think both teams had a bad year, and the only thing we can do is wait and hope our teams kick it into gear next year.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 27, 2012 10:28 a.m.

    Utes Fan

    @phoenix

    You left out a few:

    BCS Bowl wins: (one great season, 2008, with little else)
    Kyle 1
    Bronco 0

    Top 5 finishes: (see above)
    Kyle 1
    Bronco 0

    Bowl wins: (winning bowl games is great, but it doesn't trump consistently qualifying for bowl games)
    Kyle 6
    Bronco 5

    Head to head (BYU vs. Utah): (one game per season doesn't trump overall success - see overall records and final rankings)
    Kyle 5
    Bronco 3

    ------

    Spokane Ute

    "BYU took 3rd out of 4 independents"

    Nice try, but your analysis if fundamentally flawed.

    BYU and Navy only played two common opponents and BYU was much more competitive against both:

    Notre Dame
    BYU 14-17
    Navy 10-50

    San Jose State
    BYU 14-20
    Navy 0-12

    Sagarin Rankings
    #37 BYU
    #50 Utah
    #73 Navy

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2012 10:40 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "7-5 and pounding your chest like youv'e actually done something.....classic!"

    Classic hyperbole from a Utah fan.

    I haven't seen any BYU fans "pounding their chests" about finishing 7-5, in fact, the vast majority of BYU fans are bitterly disappointed that a stellar BYU defense was wasted because of a floundering BYU offense.

    Still, comparing the first two years of Independence versus PAC 12, there's no question which team was more successful overall, albeit, marginally.

    2011
    BYU 10-3 ranked > Utah 8-5 unranked

    2012
    BYU 7-5 bowl > Utah 5-7 no bowl

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 27, 2012 11:23 a.m.

    @ Phoenix & Utenymous

    Utah 24 Final
    BYU 21

    Score Board & Check Mate!

    I love how you two troll Utah threads, twist obscure stats to some how make your team look comporable to Utah, and get in your time machine when all else fails. Nice, but you can't beat us on the field! I'll take SCORE BOARD and you two can keep twisting and spinning obscure data and numbers; deal?

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2012 11:48 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "twist obscure facts"

    Like say national rankings, overall records, and bowl game invitations?

    I love your spin, but watching BYU and Utah State fans bowling, while Ute fans are back home watching from the comfort of their couches will soon give you a better understanding of how silly it is to judge the success of your entire season on the basis of one game.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 27, 2012 12:19 p.m.

    Sorry Utenanmous but getting invited to a bowl with one of the lowest pay outs, while going 7-5, just doesn't say much. I admit Utah had a horrible season. We did play a tougher schedule than BYU, but lost more games. Funny thing is, even when we have our worst season in years, we still beat BYU. Spin that one Guy. Another question, why are you so concerned about Utah? I could care less about BYU. Why do you troll Utah articles and pick an arguement with Utah fans? Are you that insecure as a BYU fan? What's the deal?

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 27, 2012 1:00 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "getting invited to a bowl with one of the lowest pay outs, while going 7-5, just doesn't say much."

    It's funny how Utah fans are suddenly disparaging all of the bowls the Utes played in while they were compiling that "amazing" nine-bowl game winning streak that many Utah fans used to beat their chests about incessantly until Boise State ended that streak by embarrassing the Utes in the "lowly" Las Vegas Bowl.

    Here's a clue

    lower paying bowl > not qualifying for a bowl

    regardless of how you spin it.

    --------

    I don't troll Utah articles; I'm a Utah grad who simply doesn't agree with all of the misguided hyperbole Utah fans like to throw out there to convince themselves that a couple of perfect storm seasons in 2004 and 2008 suddenly transformed Utah into a great football program. The Utes hit their peak in 2008 and have been in steady decline since; and that's only partially due to playing "better" competition.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 27, 2012 1:19 p.m.

    Utenymous,

    I find it difficult to believe that any Utah grad would belittle the program like you do. Amazingly bitter. Disparaging all the bowls? Atleast get your facts straigh when being critical of your so called alma matter. Ever hear of the Sugar, Sun or Fiesta bowls? Here's a clue Guy: $20+ million in TV rights. Last year's bowl pay out: Sun ($2 mill) vs. Poinsettia ($.5 mil). Would you like to compare bowl payouts over the last 10 years? What a loyal fan you are; one bad season and the program is horrible. Thanks for your loyalty...not!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 27, 2012 1:22 p.m.

    Utenonoymous

    I'm looking at the top 25 BCS and USA Today rankings, yet I don't see BYU. We are talkings about "National Rankings" right?. Oh I get it, go to the Sagarin or RPI rankings where they list all 200+ teams. What ever fits your agenda I guess.

  • scott Alpine, UT
    Nov. 27, 2012 2:00 p.m.

    Sorry, Spokane Ute, I don't see any belittling in Utenonoymous's comments. He's simply disagreeing with you and not drinking the red koolaid.

    We all know BYU isn't currently ranked in the Top 25, but we also know that BYU has finished in the Top 25 following five of the eight seasons during the Bronco/Kyle era, whereas, the Utes have only managed to finish in the Top 25 three times during the same time period.

    To put that in perspective, BYU has finished in the Top 25 almost as many times during the Bronco era (five) as the Utes have in their entire football history (seven).

    Since neither BYU nor Utah are ranked in the current Top 25, we have to go to a second ranking system, which incidentally is used in the super-secret "bcs" formula, to get an idea of where teams not ranked in the Top 25 stand in comparison to each other.

    One of the most widely respected of those secondary rankings is Sagarin, where we discover:

    #25 Utah State
    #37 BYU
    #50 Utah

    You can choose to dismiss the ranking because it doesn't fit your agenda, but that won't change the ranking.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Nov. 27, 2012 2:37 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Bowl payouts are a meaningless basis for comparison because they have absolutely NOTHING to do with on field performance.

    Look no further than 2008, when 9th ranked, undefeated Boise State(12-0) was matched up against 11th ranked TCU(10-2) in the Poinsettia Bowl, while 12th ranked Cincinnati(11-2) played 21st ranked Virginia Tech(9-4) in the Orange Bowl.

    The ONLY thing bowl committees care about is how many fans each team will bring and how many televisions will be tuned in to watch their game; the bowls couldn't care less how accomplished each team was during the season.

    Given a choice, the Fiesta Bowl would pick an 8-4 unranked Wisconsin team over an undefeated 12-0 5th ranked San Diego State team in a heart beat, regardless of how many Top 25 teams SDSU beat during the regular season.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    Nov. 27, 2012 3:33 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    So are we to assume that 6 of the 9 wins in Utah's now defunct 9-game bowl winning streak were meaningless because they occurred in the Poinsettia, Kraft Fight Hunger, Armed Forces, and Las Vegas Bowls, which Utah fans now talk about with such disdain?

    What is your criteria for determining whether a bowl is meaningful, or not?

    Does the opponent matter at all, or is it simply how much $$$ the bowl pays?

    What is the minimum payout in determining whether a bowl is meaningful or not?

    And, if $$$ is the overriding factor in determining how meaningful a bowl is, why even play the game?

    Inquiring minds want to know...

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 27, 2012 4:37 p.m.

    Spokane Ute :>{

    There's not a Ute on the planet that wouldn't die to see his Utes play one more game, even the New Mexico Bowl this year. The same bowl game you and every other Ute fan disparaged BYU for playing in and let's not forget the Helicopter Bowl, Kraft Fight Hunger, and Las Vegas Bowls while we are at it.

    Utes would die for the chance to play any bowl.

    So BYU's bowling, that's all any of us care for our team, a post season, any post season and you and other Ute fans are personifying so well the old adage of...

    ... sour grapes.

    cont'd

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 27, 2012 4:39 p.m.

    cont'd

    Yep, Utes beat BYU again, nobody cares except the locals, but on a national stage its BYU in spotlight again, post season, yet a dim one, late hours, maybe not as many fans to watch it, but its there, the insignificant Poinsettia Bowl, in its glory for BYU fans to gloat about it, much like you guys like to gloat about the wonder years, your PAC12 membership (9th place), except this is current events.

    And you can bet that whoever announces this game they will mention that BYU almost beat ND, BSU, and Utah. A better team than their record shows in spite of the QB problems, coaching etc.

    I wonder if they will say anything about Utah?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 27, 2012 4:49 p.m.

    Look at all the Helpers. Where to start. First off, Scott. I went back and looked at the final BCS standings over the last 10 years, including this season, and found Utah ranked in the top 25, 5 times starting in 2003. During that same time, BYU was ranked in the top 25, 4 times. I can list the years if you would like? I also noticed BYU didn't play in a BCS bowl during that time frame, yet played in the same conference as Utah. Pretty fair comparison of the two teams.

    Now, does bowl payout make a bowl meaningless or not? Of couse not, never said it did. Of couse opponent matters, like playing an 11-1 SEC team. However, the more prestigous bowls are played later in the season, and pay out more money. Obviously the Fiesta and Sugar Bowl pay out more money, and are more sought after, than the Poinsettia bowl. Do you honestly think that BYU would accept a Poinsettia bowl bid over the Fiesta, Sun or Sugar Bowl?

    Class is in session.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 27, 2012 4:55 p.m.

    @skywalker

    Can you please let me know what year San Diego state went 12-0 and didn't get a BCS bid? Do you understand how the BCS bowl system works? If a team like SDSU goes 12-0, they would be ranked in the top 12, and receive a BCS auto bid. You realize that Kent State is on the verge of doing that this year; with a top 16 bid. I realize a BCS bowl is foreign to BYU, but you may want to research how the sytem works. Go undefeated, achieve a high enough ranking, and you will get a BCS bowl. Some teams capitalize on this opportunity: TCU, Boise State and Utah. Some don't: Hawaii. I hope you have a better understanding of the BCS now.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 27, 2012 6:21 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "I went back and looked at the final BCS standings over the last 10 years, including this season, and found Utah ranked in the top 25, 5 times starting in 2003."

    Nice try, but the final BCS standings are not the final Top 25 rankings, but I guess we couldn't expect U to know that.

    As skywalker clearly explained, bowl payout or prestige often has little to do with actual on field accomplishment. Just because a major conference negotiates tie-ins with several "more prestigious" bowls, doesn't mean the conference teams that end up filling those slots are anymore accomplished or deserving than teams like TCU or Boise State in 2008, or BYU in 1984 and 1996.

    SDSU has never finished 12-0 and been left out of a BCS bowl, that was quite obviously a hypothetical example. sheesh!

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 27, 2012 10:03 p.m.

    Phoenix

    All of that is great. How many of those accomplishments have happened in the current (aka BCS) era of college football?

    The fact is lately Utah has had more success in bowl games, and against "name" teams than BYU. It's not a slam on BYU, just a testament to Utah's growth as a program. There is no need to get defensive about it.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 27, 2012 10:07 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    BYU does not need the $. Each year you kids on the hill bring up this silly bowl payout schedule as something of significance. Who cares? I guess the teams that still work out of trailers... ok, you got a real need there.

    So how about payouts for this year... Some simple math for you.

    BYU makes a buck and the Utes... not one red cent. LOL

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 27, 2012 11:09 p.m.

    2fer

    "All of that is great. How many of those accomplishments have happened in the current (aka BCS) era of college football?"

    How many of those accomplishments have happened in Utah football history EVER?

    It's true, Utah has had a couple of great seasons, but NOTHING before or after. Even with your two bcs busting teams you still weren't good enough to string two Top 15 teams together, let alone, two Top 10 teams.

    Maybe Utah will eventually become competitive in the PAC 12 and prove the naysayers wrong, but at this point, the "growth" in Utah's football program looks more like a couple of brief flashes in the pan.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 28, 2012 8:13 a.m.

    @ SammyG

    You do realize that the PAC 12 is scheduled to make approximately $44 million in bowl revenue don't you? Two BCS teams. You also realize that the money is distributed through out the conference, right? I'm sure you are also aware that Utah get's a 50% split of a full PAC 12 TV share this year? That number is approximately $10 mill. Now that's pretty simple math. $10 mll + PAC 12 Bowl Share > $500K. You can't beat us on the field, or at the bank; but nice try.

    Also, did I mention that the trailers are temporary while we build our state of the art $30 million football facility?

    I hope this helps you with your understanding of Utah's Athletic Budget. I know it's a tough concept to grasp when you don't belong to a major BCS conference.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 28, 2012 8:19 a.m.

    @ Troy

    What rankings determine BCS bowl slots? What rankings determine the National Champion? BCS of course. Nice try, but everyone in college football know's, this is the ranking that counts. Do you even understand how the BCS rankings work? Apparently not, then again if you haven't been to a BCS bowl it's probably a new concept.

    Saying SDSU goes undefeated in the BCS era is worse than saying BYU did, or will. Never happened, never will. Shesh!

  • cedarcityute cedar city, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 8:49 a.m.

    It's nice to see some actual Ute fans in this article forum :) Secondly, forget about all the BYU kids in here, we have bigger fish to fry folks! The PAC-12 needs to show the SEC where it's at! I think our conference can keep up with the best of them, but the Media, ahem, especially ESPN give the SEC too much love and make it sound as if the PAC-12 is weak, which it is not. This season did not live up to the expectations of many fans, myself included, but that is part of growing pains! Let's stick with our team and support them and our coaches!

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 9:06 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "What rankings determine BCS bowl slots? What rankings determine the National Champion? BCS of course."

    Sadly, you're only partially correct.

    The BCS rankings are ONLY used to qualify teams for the BCS championship and BCS bowl games.

    The final BCS rankings come out at the end of the regular season.

    The final Top 25 rankings that determine the national champion are the AP and Coaches Polls, which come out AFTER the bowls.

    The BCS has adopted the Coaches Poll as their "official" BCS poll and the BCS REQUIRES that all Coaches vote for the BCS championship game winner as #1 in the poll.

    The AP Poll is completely separate from the BCS. AP voters can choose ANY team as #1, even a team like Ohio State that is ineligible for post season play.

    Interesting, Utah fans ALWAYS cite their AP rankings from 2004 and 2008 (#4 and #2), even though the "official" BCS poll is the Coaches Poll, in which the Utes finished #5 and #4.

    AP and/or Coaches Top 25 Rankings during the BCS era

    BYU (SIX) - 2001, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011
    Utah (FIVE) - 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2010

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 9:14 a.m.

    cedarcityute

    "Secondly, forget about all the BYU kids in here, we have bigger fish to fry folks!"

    Like planning which dip to go with your couch potato chips during bowl week???

    "The PAC-12 needs to show the SEC where it's at!"

    The SEC has won 6 straight BCS championships and will be playing in the BCS championship game again this year. The PAC 12 has NEVER won a BCS championship and won't be playing in the BCS championship game this season.

    Yeah, that's really showing the SEC "where it's at!"

    Utah fans need to step out of that crimson bubble on the hill once in awhile to see that your fantasies don't even come close to reality.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 9:20 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    It's never about the money for BYU.

    All the money in the PAC12 that will be Utah's future windfall will do very little for a program that will always be miles behind the behemoths of the original conference.

    Hang on to those coattails.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Nov. 28, 2012 9:21 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "Do you even understand how the BCS rankings work?"

    It's quite obvious that you don't!

    But, since LonestarRunner has already given a detailed and accurate explanation of how the BCS rankings work, I won't bother repeating what's already been posted.

  • cedarcityute cedar city, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 10:00 a.m.

    Is that really all people can obsess over is the couch and potato chips? Apparently since all the twinkies are gone that's all they have left. ha ha! It's fun to see all of the obsessive byu fans that keep coming in here over and over and over. Obsess much? Apparently you aren't that excited about your bowl game if you keep obsessing over the Utes which unfortunately don't get to go to one. If I were you I'd be more focused on my bowl game and not on a team that beat mine way back, when was it, September? Like I said, obsess much? No worries, they still have twinkies on ebay, hurry, get some for $500 a package, BYU fans!!!

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 28, 2012 10:02 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    I hate to dampen your money lovefest, but here's a little dose of reality.

    First, unless you're getting a share of that money, or at least cheaper game tickets or concessions or tuition, more money for Utah's athletic programs is really meaningless to you personally.

    Second, unless the Utes plan on wasting that mone on new uni's every week, the ONLY thing more money will do for Utah is help Utah build better athletic facilities and fund more athletic scholarships for non-revenue sports (like men's volleyball).

    As far as building better athletic facilities, it'll take you years just to match the facilities BYU already has, and the Utes have no chance of ever matching the facilities at USC, UCLA, California, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, Arizona State, and Arizona.

    Basically, you're trying to keep pace with Oregon State, and trying to stay ahead of Washington State and Colorado.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 28, 2012 10:23 a.m.

    cedarcityute

    "Apparently you aren't that excited about your bowl game if you keep obsessing over the Utes which unfortunately don't get to go to one."

    BYU fans will have plenty of time to discuss BYU's upcoming bowl as we get closer to bowl week. In the meantime, we're just having a little fun at the expense of our arrogant friends on the hill who are being forced to eat a little humble pie after two-plus years of chest beating.

  • MLH SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 10:46 a.m.

    phoenix

    Other than a baseball field what does ASU and AU have over Utah (nothing) as far as facilities go? Purely your own opinion you're a byu fan. Every sport at the University of Utah is totally funded, that is the amount of scholarships that the NCAA allow. Utah does not have a men's volleyball team. There will never be anything that the Utes can do for you to think any better of Utah's athletic program. Most Ute fans new it was going to take awhile to compete and there are many things that need to be done to do that in every sport. I cannot believe the shots that come out of all you guys. BYU has a great athletic program and the fans of Utah and the Y will always go back and forth but man when you have 100 posts on a Utah article we cannot talk about our own team we have to get defensive of what you all are saying. The Y is going to a bowl because the AD is smart he MAKES SURE you have 6 games that you can win. SJSU was one of those, great year BYU?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 28, 2012 11:54 a.m.

    @ Snack Pack

    Then why did you bother to post? Bored?

    @ Lone Star

    Yes, the final BCS poll determines who plays for the NC. That winner get's the NC (glass egg). The USA Today and AP release a final poll. Not sure who's been ranked in the final USA Today poll more over the last 10 years. I never referenced the AP poll. I do know who's won 8 of the last 11 between BYU and Utah though.

    @ Phoenix

    Sorry but you will never dampen my support for Utah. First: Did I ever say I get some of the revenue? What a ridiculous assumption. 2nd: Most every college football team wears alternate jerseys, even BYU. 3rd: I could care less about BYU facilities. I've never mentioned them, just informed BYU fans the concept of temporary construction trailers over and over again.

    @ Cedar City

    I hear you Bro. It's difficult to even discuss the Utes on these forums without someone from down south trying to pick an arguement. Funny, you don't see much of this on the BYU threads. Envy, paranoid? Not sure what the deal is.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 28, 2012 11:58 a.m.

    MLH

    "Other than a baseball field what does ASU and AU have over Utah (nothing) as far as facilities go?"

    Sun Devil Stadium - Capacity: 71,706
    Arizona Stadium - Capacity: 70,000 (for 2013 - $72 million expansion currently in progress)

    Stop drinking the red koolaid and just accept reality.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 12:12 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "Yes, the final BCS poll determines who plays for the NC. That winner get's the NC (glass egg). The USA Today and AP release a final poll."

    NOPE!

    The team ranked #1 in the Coaches Poll (USA Today Poll) gets the crystal football trophy.

    Coaches Poll Top 25 rankings during the BCS era
    BYU 6
    Utah 5

    AP Poll Top 25 rankings during the BCS era
    BYU 5
    Utah 4

    Sorry, you own the head-to-head bragging rights for the last 11 years, but overall season records and final national rankings always trump single game victories.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 12:27 p.m.

    MLH

    "The Y is going to a bowl because the AD is smart he MAKES SURE you have 6 games that you can win."

    You're just jealous that it would be impossible for Utah's AD to MAKE SURE you have 6 games you can win, because, as we saw last season with Colorado, the Utes are capable of losing to ANYBODY!

    btw, BYU played FIVE teams currently ranked in the Top 25; Utah only played THREE. Your weak schedule arguments are nothing but sour grapes.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 28, 2012 1:35 p.m.

    Markeditdown

    We are both right. The BCS poll decides who plays in the NC. The winner of that game wins the national championship. I really don't even know why the USA Today or coaches poll matters at that point? I guess it does for teams outside of the National Champion.

    If you researched, and BYU owns the slight lead in the polls as suggested; I will take your word for it. BYU owns the poll lead (6-5 or 5-4), and Utah owns the head to head lead (8-3). I'm cool with that. As far as which trumps which? That's a matter of opinion. Personally I will take the victories on the field vs. the popular vote. I think we can both agee on one thing; it's been a dissapointing season.

    Note: Actually Utah did play a tougher schedule per the Sagarin or RPI ranking; and lost more games. The PAC 12 was very strong this year.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 2:38 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "I really don't even know why the USA Today or coaches poll matters at that point?"

    Let me explain: The USA Today poll IS the Coaches Poll.

    The American Football Coaches Association (AFCA) National Championship Trophy (crystal football trophy) is awarded to the team that finishes #1 in the Coaches Poll. Without being voted #1 in the Coaches Poll, it wouldn't matter if a team won the BCS championship game or not, they wouldn't get the trophy.

    To ensure that the winner of the championship game is voted #1, the BCS negotiated a deal with the AFCA to require all voters to vote the BCS championship game winner #1.

    Ironically, the only coach to vote against that requirement was Whittingham, who gave the Utes his #1 vote in 2008, even though the Utes didn't even play in the championship game.

    The AP Poll selects their national champions independent of the BCS, which is how USC won a national championship in 2003 without playing in the BCS championship game.

    ------

    btw, according to your head-to-head argument, wasn't 10-loss Colorado a better team than Utah last season?

    BYU beat USU who beat Utah who beat BYU

    hmmm

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 8:24 p.m.

    @spokane ute

    "It's as if they spend more time hating on Utah, than supporting BYU. I don't get it?"

    You "don't get it" because you don't want to "get it" which is par for the course from utah "fans". BYU fans like sammyg or myself are simply the balance, and I'll be honest we could post on every single utah article for the next 10 years and it wouldn't even come close to balancing out what such ute "fan" greats as chris b, naval vet, uteology, utah-hawaii, 54-10, williary, and numerous other utah "fans" have posted on the BYU articles for the last several years. We are far, far behind in that department.

    I think you really do "get it" you just don't want to admit that you do.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 8:37 p.m.

    @spokane ute

    You do realize that even with utah's increased revenue they are still playing catch up to where BYU already is in revenue? You also realize utah's $30 million facility is about half the cost of BYU's facility and BYU built their's 10 years ago? In otherwords utah's facility, while admittedly very nice, is inferior to BYU's, pretty much like all of utah's facilities are inferior to pretty much all of BYU's.

    Now I only bring this up because you seem to think that utah has somehow surpassed BYU in these area's when in fact they have not, and won't anytime soon if ever.

    The more you know....

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 10:45 p.m.

    Duckhunter

    Who wouldn't want more cash?

    er,

    I think that's another converstion.

    While Washington, Arizona, California, and Oregon State have all completed or are in the process of expanding their stadiums, the Utes are busy toiling away at building some decent training facilities.

    Actually, a pretty smart move on Hill's part, since he doesn't want to waste $50 to $100 million expanding RES to see it turn into a sea of empty red chairs, just like the HC.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 11:31 p.m.

    Duckhunter

    There is no way BYU dropped $60 million on a football training facility. And if they did the Cougs got ripped off.

    Point and case, Phil Knight built Oregon a six story football facility that I guarantee blows BYU's facilities away. The punch line: Oregon only spent $41 million. Also this last spring USC approved a $70 million dollar facility that will be, by far, the nicest in CFB. You have some serious delusions of grandeur if you think BYU is on par in any way with the Ducks or the Trojans. I'm pretty sure Utah will surpass BYU in football facilities too with this recent upgrade.

  • TrollPolice Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 28, 2012 11:57 p.m.

    2fer

    BYU's athletic department raised over $50 million dollars in 2003 to build and upgrade athletic facilities. The new indoor practice facility cost about $9 million; the new state-of-the-art training facility cost about $21 million.

    The main point being, Utah is still a year away from matching the training facilities BYU has had in place for 10 years.

    Now tell us about your plans to expand that crackerbox-sized stadium of yours.

    Or your new track and field stadium plans.

    Or your new baseball and softball stadium plans.

    *crickets*

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 29, 2012 7:56 a.m.

    Solomon Levi

    Ever hear of the word Fluke, or upset? That is what Colorado's upset was two years ago. Beating a team 8 of 11 times is no fluke, thats called a trend. See the difference? You are also right regarding the polls: I know.

    I love it when someone says "crickets". Must be camping. Utah has beaten BYU on the field and the revenue stream is going up. The facilities are, or soon will be, state of the art. I could care less what BYU does with their stadium. Notice its BYU fans, on a Utah thread, trying compare their team and school to Utah? Seldom if ever the other way around. Paranoid, jelaousy, envy; mayble a little of each. I don't get it?

    @ sammy G
    You already posted the exact same though earlier, remember?

  • MLH SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 29, 2012 10:31 a.m.

    Marked it down

    Jealous of what, one thing I will never be is jealous of byu.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 29, 2012 1:02 p.m.

    The Big East is waaay too far away for travel. If conferences keep expanding I could see the PAC 12 expaing to 16 schools. I would prefer they add: BYU, SDSU, Boise State & Fresno/Nevada/Air Force. I have a feeling this is where things are headed; 4-5 super confernces: 64 +/- teams.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Nov. 29, 2012 2:00 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Losing to one lousy 10-loss team could be considered a fluke or upset. Losing to multiple lousy and 10-loss teams could be considered a trend, as in losing to:

    Colorado State, Wyoming, New Mexico, 10-loss UNLV, and 10-loss Colorado. And let's not forget that if Colorado hadn't foolishly kicked the ball to Reggie after tying the game on their own 100-yard return, Utah could have easily lost back-to-back games against a 10-loss Colorado team.

    Ironically, the ONLY highlights in your first two years in the PAC 12 have been a couple of wins against BYU. How is that going to help U compete in the PAC 12?

    btw, your 8 of the last 11 is skewed by the Crowton debacle. Realistically, Bronco is 3-5 versus Kyle, but 6 of the 8 games have been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing minutes of the game or in OT. The Bronco could very easily be leading the head-to-head 5-3. Hardly the significant "trend" Utah fans mistakenly claim it to be.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Nov. 29, 2012 2:48 p.m.

    Great spin job Snack Pack as always. It's not easy to spin losing 8 out of 11 but you did a GREAT job. Sorry, but wins over Oregegon State, UCLA, Arizona and Georgia Tech far out weigh beating BYU, again, and again, and again....

    btw when's the last time BYU beat a BCS team with a winning record?

    People in glass houses.............

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 29, 2012 5:58 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "Sorry, but wins over Oregon State, UCLA, Arizona and Georgia Tech"

    Been there, done that, but it's obvious that Utah fans really only care about beating BYU, because, besides beating Alabama in the Sugar Bowl four years ago, beating BYU is the only thing Utah fans talk about, ad nauseum.

    "when's the last time BYU beat a BCS team with a winning record"

    Depends on whether Georgia Tech (6-6) wins their last two games - BYU beat the Yellow Jackets on Oct 27th at Georgia Tech.

    Otherwise, Washington (7-6) in 2010 (also BYU's most recent win over a PAC 12 team with a winning record), Oklahoma(8-5) and Oregon State(8-5) in 2009.

    btw, BYU is 4-4 versus the Huskies; Utah is 0-8 versus Washington.

    Utah's last win over a PAC 12 team with a winning record, California(8-5), ironically in the Poinsettia Bowl, 2009

    People who live in glass houses...

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 30, 2012 11:20 a.m.

    Wow, sure a lot of obsessed trolls from the mid major (little league) Coug team in Provo. News flash, your team is a common law member of the WAC. Utah is in the PAC 12 and owns your team head to head by a margin the will only widen and add bitter sorrow to your little troll hearts. Best thing that you guys stay in the little leagues playing laughable WAC-abilly schedules as we have seen what happens when you play better teams (Utah, Notre Dame, San Jose State etc.). Too funny.