Ah, Insanity!Ain't it wonderful.
I invoke the Utah State motto:If you don't like it, leave.
I also hope the Department of Homeland Security keeps a list of each and
everyone who signed it, and carefully tracks them using Bush/Cheney's
"Patriot Act", and places them on the watch list of potential
"Domestic Terrorists" ala, Timothy McViegh.
Didn't some southern states try this out a while ago? I'm assuming
this wouldn't actually end well either.
500,000 today, 10,000,000 in 2 years.Believe it.
BYU_Aggie... the difference here is that time it was geographically based. This
time it is just people who are whack-o in the head that live all across the
nation.The true colors of the so called Tea Party Patriots...... I
say see ya! Good luck finding a country that will take ya. Go ahead, gather up
your stuff... and head on out. There are plenty who would love to live in this
America and take your place, you will not be missed.You all may personally
secede from the country - flights are leaving daily.
In fairness, most of the Utah signatures are from out-of-staters making it look
more like a petition to boot Utah from the nation than a secession petition.
Verified/Certified signatures with photo ID?Jackie:DN
readers expect this sort of "news" from your efforts.DN
readers know you do not like President Obama.Thank you for
confirming these presuppositions.
Wake up people, this country is in political decline. This article says there
are 36 states who have petitions being signed. They are not all red states,
some are blue states. This country has become as divided as it was in the
1860s. This last election, with all its political rhetoric, just pushed us
further down the road of decline.Comments calling people names and
making harsh statements is a microcosm of what is happening across this once
great nation. While it is unlikely that any state will secede, it is indicative
of the current state of mind in this country. We need a few great leaders,
statesmen if you will, to bring this country back together. Unfortunately,
there is none in DC, or any of the states, to be found.
Really? Are we going to allow these extremists a voice? If they want out of the
US give them a passport and good ridance!
I say they better do it now while they still can. Four more years of
Obama's tax, spend, redistribute and tax, spend, redistribute and there
won't be anything left to withdraw from.
If this came to a vote, you would get about 50% of the country voting for it and
far more in Utah! This is ever increasing after the Obama scandals and cover ups
keep getting revealed as he did everything possible to make sure they did not
blow up until after the election. Nixon was to the moment of getting impeached
and stepped down for far less than what Obama has already done. Obama has ignored our constitution, broken the separation of power to
circumvent congress and make executive decisions on key policy changes, (against
the constitution). He has covered up countless scandals including the military
order to stand down and not answer the urgent calls for help by Americans under
attack in our Libya embassy who were later brutally murdered and is not being
held accountable by the media! Obamacare will cost thousands more for the
average family and millions more for the average small/medium business, costing
tens of thousands of jobs or more and further pull us into a deep recession
while pulling us ever closer to a socialist society like Venezuela, Cuba, Greece
etc. as is Obama's proclaimed vision. Socialism always fails, Remember the
The national debt is close to $300,000 per federal income tax payer. One option
to eliminate that debt is to dissolve the United States as an entity, with the
seperate states refusing to recognize any portion of the debt. It won't
happen, but it would be interesting to see China's response.
I find it very odd (disturbing) to have Junior ROTC members as the picture for
this article. Don't care what the nut jobs do (move out of the country if
you don't like it!) but really?? The poor ROTC being dragged into this
I wondered how long it would take these to surface after the election.
And here I thought conservatives loved America. Oops!
If 50,000,000+ voted for Obama, it is predictability that 50,000 at the other
extreme of the political spectrum surfaced. It would be interesting to see how
many mentally unbalanced would vote to withdraw if Obama had not won.
I think it's more accurate to say..."people from 36 States" rather
that "36 States". As far as I can tell, no one State government has
officially endorsed any of these petitions.The last time this
actually happened, we had the bloodiest war in our history. If you want change,
be the change you want in the world first, then advocate and persuade others to
change. Our nation is far, far from perfect, but we have steps in
place that allow us to correct our faults. Can these people honestly say they
have tried every resource, or are they just mad they lost an election.Ironically, these are the same people that are up in arms for Obama saying
"America isn't perfect" to other nations.
Re: TerryObama has ignored our constitution? You mean, like when he
won two straight general elections to become the President of the USA? Is that
what you meant about ignoring the constitution? (Sorry to interrupt you while
you were watching Glenn Beck)
Let them leave, there is now a petition to deport them, I volunteer to help them
Interesting that this movement shares the same interests as the white
supremacist and the Luis Farrakhan movements. This is a very sad state of
affairs in politics in the US. Sore losers and nut jobs are apparently very
vocal these days.
Amazing. George Bush gave us two wars, only one of which had any justification,
and paid for them on credit cards He trampled all over our rights with illegal
wiretaps. He approved of torture. He expanded medicaid drug options with no
way to pay for it. I did not hear of anyone wanting to secede. I ask people
who do not like Obama why they are angry and I hear the same things, like
Obamacare, which came from Romney and the right-wing Heritage Foundation. I
hear about cover-ups, and other conspiracy theories. The right wing is too
extreme for the majority of the country, loses the election, so a few extremists
want to secede. This s news? There are real concerns out there that need real
focus from all of us, from our elected officials. Let's deal with that and
quit paying attention to the loonies.
Since they are vocalizing their desire not to be citizens of this great nation,
they should be allowed to leave post haste. As they are the minority in their
state, the state shouldn't have to suffer the actions of these malcontents.
The ideal solution would be to send them back to Europe. Perhaps get a country
to provide land for their new nation of "spoiledbratistan"
I notice that not one of the brave anti-government posters has actually SIGNED
such a petition, but go ahead. You can have that Puerto Rican island that's
been used for artillery practice for 60 years or so. If you want something
nicer, make us an offer.
Who is to say history will not repeat itself. What kind of conditions existed
in the past to cause the split and what about the present?
On this day after Veteran's Day, I offer an encore salute to those who
serve to preserve for all the rest of us a country that guarantees the right of
every citizen to make a fool of himself.
The only way a person can have the exact government that he wants is to live
alone on a remote island that does not show up on any maps. However, if you
choose to live along side, among and with other people you will probably have to
choose from the available governments. What kind of America do you
want?The Economic Jungle.Independence carried to the
extreme. No rules, no rights and freedom only for the powerful. No
improvements and no future. Sort of like the American Indian culture in the
thousand years prior to creation of the USA. Colonial World.Ownership of the entire world by a tiny few. Giant commercial
corporations using military force to rule other nations. Like England prior to
the USA. Military Dictatorship.Singular or small set of
rulers with fanatical loyalty to a financial or religious dogma. Like Germany
and England at the time of WWII. Economic Equality secured by
representative government. Personal rights, freedom, liberty and
justice provided by a strong national government freely elected and controlled
by people citizens. Like what America could be.
I know that many Americans are extremely upset about the outragious policies and
actions of the Obama Administration and rightly so. But, WOW, I had no idea
that it had come to this. Unfortunately, I have feared for some time that we
might end up in another civil war, but I didn't really believe it would go
that far.Please, no matter how upset we are, we are still all
Americans and we love our country. We tried civil war once. It didn't
turn out good.Everyone, please pray for our country and our
constitution.This is scary!
Benjamin Franklin began agitating for political restructuring some 20 years
before Lexington, Concord, Bunker Hill, Boston harbor and 1776. If you have ever
read the debate it was filled with noble speech about taxation, freedom,
self-determination (absence the nanny state) etc on one side, and claims of
loons, malcontents and radicals on the other.It has begun and in
time political restructuring will take place. The speed of technology, velocity
of currency and the state of affairs demands that it will not be 20 years. And
it is no longer a crown an ocean away.What is surprising to me is
not the immediate attacks from the Left but the verification. You are alright
that the government creates secret lists and targets American citizens that
would exercise their First Amendment rights? Not only are you alright with this,
you are begging for it. A totalitarian government that penalizes speech.You make my point. I detest the dream world you support and beg for. I
don't say that with spite or anger, just honest. You detest the world of
limited government I insist to provide for my daughters. Benjamin
Franklin...it has begun.
Reasons the South seceded1. Economic and social differences between the
North and the South.2. States versus federal rights3. The fight
between Slave and Non-Slave State Proponents.4. Growth of the Abolition
Movement.5. The election of Abraham Lincoln.
As much as I disagree with Obama... REALLY? This is absolutely ridiculous.
It's only 1/17 of 1% (500,000/300,000,000), but, wow.
This is only the beginning.... Things will be getting much, much worse. People
have had it with the current administration. I see some major revolting in the
future. Look at our past when things have gone ill. What did people do then?
Come on Bill you know better. Obama does what he wants period. How can you argue
All the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" lefties who are
encouraging this are the same ones who will be weeping bitter tears when they
realize obama and their big government isn't going to bail them out when
disaster hits, whatever it may be. Look at the sandy mess...where's
your government now?
Lds liberal.I invite them to track us.I will serve them some milk
and cookies, and then share my thoughts on why this country has been demolished
by a small group of people, (federal government) and how we are going to take it
back.All I care about is my family, my god, and our security....This
is just how it is. If you feel threathened, there's really nothing that can
fix that.You feel threathened by me, and I feel infringed on by you.That's all...
So nice that people of the Free nation have the right to express their opinions
no matter who is criticized. Not so nice that the liberal minded do not see the
right to criticize as a right of everyone. let's hope that the
President returns from his Asian journey in time to deal with the critical
economic crisis we are facing. Are we supposed to jump off the cliff
because the leader has?
I'm not impressed! I suspect that most of these citizens were in favor of
the military expenditures, the social expenditures, and/or the intransigent
politics that have been prominent in the national debt debacle. An honorable
course would be to relinquish the benefits while paying down the debts, among
i am living in one of the states this is about. what we are trying to say is
'obama won by buying votes, cheating us out on a real president. his lies,
taxes, lack of morals, disrespect is killing our nation'. obama and biden,
pelosi and reid also others need to read, memorize, understand the constitution
of the United States of America. they need to know what it is really like to be
a true American. obama knew about the scandal with petreaus pre election and
stated 'i knew but didn't want the information out before the
election'. he also knew about the consolate being targeted before those
innocent deaths. our country is screaming WE NEED A REAL PRESIDENT not obama
@peacemaker"Not so nice that the liberal minded do not see the right
to criticize as a right of everyone. "Likewise, the left also
has the right to criticize the right... well, okay I'm not even going to
call this secession thing the right... it's more like the crazies.@loganhistorian"I see some major revolting in the future."I don't. It'd be the first ever victory brought on due to
sloth and obesity and the south leads in the latter (arguably both, since
they're also tops in the highest percentage of people among the 47%).
"Peacefully grant the city of Austin Texas to withdraw from the state of
Texas & remain part of the United States."The above is a
good responce to this "petition" issue. There are 110
"petitions" at the "We the People" White House site as of 17:30
The list of States at the end of the story all voted for Obama. Any surprise
that they want things left just as they are?
This will shock you all.I see obama starting a war with the united
states.I see him using another country to start a terrorist attack, so he
can change these views out there.To take there thoughts off of him, and we
start focusing on a terrorist.Wait, do I sound like a lefty, in the way
they treated bush?Interedting...
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it
is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new
Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers
in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and
Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established
should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all
experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are
sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are
accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably
the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is
their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new
Guards for their future security."Declaration of Independence
Ah yes. It worked so well the first time.
Looks to me like a bunch of liberals are no longer satisfied with just putting
stuff on The SL Tribune comments venue, and have decided to spend some time on
the Deseret News comment forum as well. We're in trouble--between election
fraud, a constituency bought with our (and our descendents') money, and all
the other scandals and corruption--sooner or later we're going to do
something positive or we're going to grind to a halt here. We can't
continue to tolerate the abject foolishness that is so patently destructive to
those who produce and provide.
Secessionists - please feel free to self-deport.
Here is a small portion of one of two petitions involving Utah.“...and to enact our own laws and here buy govern ourselves...”The author uses the verb, “buy”. Purchase.He or
she should have used the preposition, “by”.Back to High
There are 310 million people in the US. To get to 1%, you have to have 3.1
million. So right now it is about .18% or less then 2 per thousand. I supposed
they want to leave the country but they don't want to leave their house or
their neighborhood. They just want to be exempt from the law of the land. It
just shows the selfishness of a small group of people. If things are really that
bad, they should leave and go somewhere else like Canada or Australia. Maybe
they could go to Great Britain or New Zealand but anywhere else with the
possible exception of India, they'd have to learn another language.
I'm sure that would fit into their world view. And then of course all those
country actually have more debt per person, more socialized health care, and
more taxes. Yea, I think they should go and if they want to push the petition,
we should make them go because I don't want them living next door to me as
a separate country but still using our roads, our hospitals, our schools, our
money, and anything else that is American.
Number of people who voted for Obama last Tuesday: 62,307,405.Number of people who have signed these petitions: 50,000.I'd
say someone's outnumbered.Obama won. Get over it.
Let's do this: We allow Texas to secede, claim that Rick Perry has WMDs,
and then invade it for its' oil. We'll be greeted as liberators...
Whatever happened to simply threatening to move to Canada?
"CastlepathSouth Jordan, UTAll the "don't let the door
hit you on the way out" lefties who are encouraging this are the same ones
who will be weeping bitter tears when they realize obama and their big
government isn't going to bail them out when disaster hits, whatever it may
be. Look at the sandy mess...where's your government now?"thanks for reminding me....."don't let the door hit you on the way
out.... " I forgot to say that part.Listen, anyone foolish
enough to threaten to leave the country or break up the union because they
didn't get their way is no patriot in my book, I would gladly accept their
rejected citizenships. And anyone who doesn't understand that big
government is a necessary evil to compete in aglobal economy is completely out
of touch with the world we live in. If anyone believes independent states can
compete with global powers like China, they haven't been paying very good
attention. Do I like big government - no. De we need to be able to compete
against countries that are funding investment in their countries...it down to
compete or get passed by.
LDS Liberal: "I also hope the Department of Homeland Security keeps a
list of each and everyone who signed it, and carefully tracks them using
Bush/Cheney's "Patriot Act", and places them on the watch
list of potential "Domestic Terrorists" ala, Timothy McViegh."Well, the fact of the matter is that DHS already considers me a
potential terrorist. All because I am white, a military veteran, own guns, and
have food storage. There's also a petition circulating that
says to take away the citizenship of all those that sign the secession
petitions. If that's case, I'll for sure sign. I assume I will no
longer have to pay taxes. Cool.
Have you ever heard of such a thing before...since the civil war that is? There
is no way succession could ever happen today unfortunately due to the nature of
our modern world and economies. This isn't 1865. However the very fact that
a half million people bothered to sign petitions speaks volumes about how
DIVIDED this country really is. Never before have so many been so enraged with a
president and their government. Unfortunately 55% voted for Obama and even
though there was voter fraud now surfacing in Pennsylvania and Florida it still
wouldn't be enough to over turn the election. The fact is - 55% of the
people of this county chose to re-elect the WORST president in US history
regarding economics alone not to mention the inept and corrupt foreign policy
this man has conducted recently in Libya. Love him or HATE him we are stuck with
the man and the PEOPLE of the US chose socialism over capitalism and they did it
with their eyes open. Elections do have consequences however and I suspect those
frightening consequences will start to surface soon. Too little too late
I'm afraid. The US is toast!!!
per KJB1 11/13 18:32Now, thats comedy.per Henry Drummond
11/13 18:39Canada has socialized medicine. So, the disenfranchised
ultra-cons will have to find another dystopia. The only drawback to their
leaving will be the white noise on AM radio.
I have a question. Why didn't California and New York secede when Bush won
his second term? In fact, why didn't the whole East and West Coasts leave?
Let's face it. The middle of this country no longer sees eye to eye with
the coasts. At all. We are totally divided. Lets peacefully go our own separate
ways since we just aren't anything alike anymore. What's wrong with
that? If we stick together, tensions are going to come to a breaking point. I
mean, it's that bad. People are angry. Let's just separate from one
another. Peaceably. Seriously, what is the harm in that. It might prevent an
actual Civil War 2.
re: Cats 4:36 p.m. Nov. 13, 2012"This is scary!"No. Its not. Because of the numbers VAggie (4:51 p.m. Nov. 13, 2012)
illustrated, I'd bet at least 473,192 are ardent followers of Limbaugh
& that merry band of hooligans.@ JMT 4:42 p.m. Nov. 13, 2012 Oh, Phenomenal! Give Professor Beck a role model.
Like Abe Lincoln said, you can fool some of the people. I say these petition
signers are fools. And the DNews is close to being a fool, too, posting such
foolhardy stuff in a newspaper. C'mon DNews, post some stuff with more
importance. Like some definitive articles of the various ways off the fiscal
cliff, like some clear consequences of various ways politicians are talking
about. Keep this tea party petition stuff to the odds and ends section we
don't have to read, we can just chuckle at the fools' headlines.
I would bet a fair number of those who want to withdraw are upset with GOP hand
wringing over Romney's loss. "We need to change our message, we need
to be more inclusive, we need to reach out to the Hispanics". The true
believers likely were sickened at Romney turning sharply left in his desperate
attempt to win.These are the folks who started the Tea Party to
begin with, then reluctantly joined forces with the GOP, only to find out
they're being accused of sabotaging Romney's chances because they
spoke out.They need a homeland. Give them some of the Aleutian
islands and tell them to take their toxic inability to get along with others to
a new nation, away from the rest of us. I'll donate to anyone who signs a
pledge to leave and never return. Take your rattlesnake "don't tread
on me" attitude and just leave.
Killpack - you really think we are that different? Totally amazing. Lets fully think this thing through. First of all, states like Utah are next
consumers of federal funds - they are subsidized by the very states you want to
get rid of. Utah and states like it would have to figure out ways to fund their
own projects. Utah's national guard is 6/7th funded by the Federal
government - that would change dramatically. Utah or its new country would
need to establish its own currency, and have to compete on the global stage with
the dollar and Euro for investment. Even China still deals in US dollars for
stability. And how would the finances for the new country look.
Well, break up American into a Red and Blue nations, the blue Nation would still
lead he world with a GDP of about 10 Trillion, Red nation would only be about
1/3rd of that. The new country would fall to somewhere between 4th and 6th
globally. If you look at Utah should it go along, its economy would be about
the size of Vietnams. Taxes would have to go way up because per capita GDP
would go way down.
These are not deranged individuals, nor are they all members of the "Tea
Party". I consider myself moderate, and I can totally see where they are
coming from. Is it a little out there sure, but at least 46% of America also
agree that Obama is not a great leader, nor did they want him back in office to
further destroy our country. I for one am sickened by the Federal grab at
healthcare. I am also tired and have grown very weary of the Federal Government
mandating everything and stripping the rights of individual states. Maybe a lot
of them are also tired of helping states that can't get their act together
and come up with a balanced budget. Why should the fiscally responsible states
come to the aide of the states who are billions of dollars in debt?...Is it a
bit crazy to sign this petition sure..., but maybe those individuals wanted
their voices to be heard loud and clear!
I think responses in which those sending such petitions are encouraged to simply
pack up their crayons and leave is a bit immature in nature every bit as much as
those who signed the petitions. This is much more than bad
sportsmanship because their candidate didn't win. I don't remember
this reaction when Clinton won his second term, Regan or Bush for that matter.
It is a cry from the citizens of this country that things are not right.
Granted, the constitution provides a voice for grievances, but in all honesty,
would these prescribed methods get us anywhere in the face of Lobbyists and
entities that wield power and money in spite of the Constitution?What is being said, and quite loudly, we don't like the direction this
country is moving in: Mounting debt - be it Republican or Democrat inspired,
Government over reach, a stalled economy no matter what the doctored numbers
portray. And rather than an honest discussion all I see being said here and
elsewhere is -- don't let the door hit you on your way out. Let's
face it. In my life time, 50 years, I have never heard of anyone asking to
@Mom of 6Actually it's the red states that are moochers. Red states
disproportionately send less money to the federal gov't than they get back
while states like New York New Jersey (Christie noted this in the hurricane
aftermath with regards to Jersey) and California send more to the gov't
than they get back because those states are wealthier. Romney won 9 of the 10
states with the highest rates of people being in the 47%. The southern states
also have the highest smoking rates, lowest education rates, highest obesity
rates, highest STD rates, highest infant mortaility rates, highest poverty
rates... if any region is a drain on this nation financially... it's the
So where are all these folks moving to?
Why is Deseret News giving space to this nuttiness? So much for
compromise and encouraging a civil discourse. Let's highlight the wackos
and whip everybody up into a frenzy!
I love the way all the mighty left libbies are saying "good
ridence","I will help you pack", "Don't let the door hit
you on the way out", "If you don't like it, get out".
Hilarious, this is what all the righties said to you when you opposed war and
then you said it was wrong, so what makes it right now? The other funny part is
that none of these libbies even understand it. You don't have to leave the
country. You get to stay right here and still call yourselves
"Americans". State becomes idle unto itself. And many states can
survive, this is not cival war times. Yes some Federal Funding is gone, but
alot of it stays. It allows the state to establish its own laws and taxes, etc.
And by the way, the military stays here. They don't pull out, they stay.
And the state is still protected, gotta understand it before you vent. It is a
release from government, not state. You guys crack me up. You didn't see
this coming, that is even more funny. Then again, many trample on the
constitution, lefties anyway. Why would they understand it.
@atl134--Last I checked California is billions of dollars in debt and Michigan
especially the Detroit area can't even hire enough police officers to get
the work done because of their debts...and these are blue states. Your
statement that the "red states are the moochers" is pretty lame
considering the article it came from. Somehow I don't feel that states
that receive money for medicare or social security are the real moochers. The
Greatest Generation has paid their dues. I don't believe in getting rid of
every government program, but I believe that individual states can do a better
job at managing money allotted to them. I believe it is the Baby Boomer
generation that has really messed up our country and will continue to do so
until they all die out. They have brought us social unrest, financial unrest
and moral unrest. I am ready for serious people to take over and do the
necessary things to bring our country out of this mess. These serious things
may be painful, but they should not include government take-over of anything.
Big government is never successful....look at Greece and Italy!
Utahbruin,No actually you can not stay here. You do not want any federal
help correct? Well then you can not use roads that federal money HAS ALWAYS paid
for. You can not live in states that the federal government owns more of then
the state does. So again where are you moving to to start your new nation?
You can not say you are going to start anew and stay in the same place, sorry
you need to start new in a new undeveloped nation that you can run as you see
Obama is the great divider. Under his reign, this country is disintegrating.
It is just this kind of extreme, over the top, overblown, irrational,
unbelievable rhetoric and nonsense that lost the Republic of Tea Party the
election the past two times. Honestly, it is like listening to a spoiled two
year old child throw a tantrum. What an embarassment.Good to see
Perry try to talk some sense into the wack jobs.But the truth is,
there are always some disaffected Americans (using the name loosely) who file
these petitions, and it increases every election year. This is nothing new.What is new is the numbers are larger this time around.OK,
so what? If a petition is considered for any given state that meets the numbers
requirement, then the State Government decides whether or not to support it.
Then it has to go before Congress and be passed by a huge majority. If that
doesn't happen, the state has to declare war on the USA. Good luck with
that!Bottom line is, it is never going to happen. These petitions
are just symbolic hyperbole by sore losers who haven't quite grown up yet.
Let them grouse and get it out of their systems.I'm not
There are at least 50 million conservatives in the U.S. 500,000 don't
necessarily represent the view or opinions of the rest. I'm not happy with
the direction of the country, but I certainly don't want to secede from the
union. Of course, anyone who disagrees with the Democrats and the American Left
will automatically get lumped in with this crowd.@LDS LiberalDo you really want the government to start keeping lists of Americans
you just don't like? People are dramatic. They say and do dumb things
sometimes. That doesn't make them enemies of the state.
I can't believe how caustic the comments are from the left. Sure, they say,
you have a right to your opinion. As long as your opinion is the same as mine.
Look--there is no way secession is going to occur with any state. I would be
willing to bet that the great majority of those signing such petitions already
know that. All they are looking for is a forum in which to express their
displeasure at what they see is the wrong direction the country is taking. How
did the left respond before the election? As you may recall, many on the left
said there would be rioting if Romney won, and many threatened assassination. At
least those signing a petition are taking a peaceful route. Yes, the party of
tolerance, free speech, acceptance, etc are guilty of the very things they
accuse others of lacking. And, of course, there's The Scientist, who says
those signing such petitions are 'Americans', using the name
'loosely'. How are they less American than you?
So much for patriotism and love of country. These people make me ill. There
have been some presidents whose policies I haven't liked, but I'll
tell you I never would have ever dreamed of behaving so despicably. This is why
I call the tea party crowd crazy. And believe me, a huge majority of Americans
think the same way, whether they voted for Obama or Romney.
Almost 50% of the people in this country don't pay a dime in taxes yet they
tell those who pay for the roads and services of the country that as they leave
the country that they have to leave behind what the "Federal Govt" has
"provided". I laugh. The top 1% pays 32% of the taxes. If you are in
the group that pays very little taxes, you don't have any moral authority
to tell them about "what the Federal Govt" provides them. They are
funding the Federal Government. If they leave, they leave behind what they have
paid for. Be intelligent and thank them for providing for you. Don't
threaten them to leave behind what "the govt. has provided". In the
blue states, there are tons of red votes and my hunch is that those red votes
pay the majority of taxes. What have we come to as a country when wanting
limited government, no tax increases, control in federal spending, getting out
of debt makes a person a "radical" but "same sex marriage",
"legal recreational marijuana", "government control of
healthcare" makes you mainstream. We aren't the same country
I voted for Romney, but just because my guy lost doesn't mean I want to
leave. Over the last week I've heard so many people say, "I
think I want to move to Canada."If conservatives hate living in
the USA under the Obama Administration, trust me, Canada isn't much
500,000 people peacefully sign petitions for succession for grievances and are
deemed lunatic. 500,000 plus "Occupy Wall Street" lute, vandalize,kill,
block traffic, do illegal drugs on public lands, cost millions of dollars, but
are heralded as "a real important social movement with something important
to say". Hmmmm am I the only one who finds this ironic?
Interesting that people in the Party of Lincoln want to do what Southern
Democrats did in 1861. However, this is all noise because a minority of angry
people in several states don't like living in a democratic world. Much of
this is promoted by movement conservatives getting their people whipped up into
a lather because they lost an election. And it is very possible they'd be
pulling the same stunt if Romney were elected and chose to serve as the moderate
he morphed into toward the end of the election period.This is simple
noise and will go nowhere. Proverbial tempest in a teapot stuff. Personally, it
might be useful to investigate Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the rest of wingnut
media for incitement to obstruct and encouraging sedition.
A lot of good ideas are being swallowed up in hate and partisanship. What
succession would allow is a form of government where the Federal Government
offers a menu of programs and states buy into them as the state population
dictates. I assume most of the succeeding states would pay for national
protection via armed services. I assume most of the states would not support a
federal school lunch program, or perhaps even a state sponsored school lunch
program (as an example).If the northeast states, northeastern Ohio,
the west coast and Florida want to support ALL of the programs...great! If
Indiana only wants to pay for national protection and not national healthcare
what is wrong with that?I wouldn't want to go to my grocery
store and walk in and select pre-filled cart, a, b or c...and leave with a bunch
of stuff I didn't want.Why do it with government??
So ... we have a black president and some southerners want to secede? Really?
Texas would be in a fine position, considering that it has no state income tax
and receives much more in federal funding than its citizens pay in. Wait until
Texas sees that it will have a big tax increase and that it will have no
military protection. This country must end its petty conflicts and
unite behind shared goals, if we are to have any future.
DevilGlad you are a federal government champion. Obviously, you don't
know the Carolina history. The Feds control 75% of utah. utah would do fine
without the fed's choking control. big government supporters get nervous
when patriots want less fed involvement and more state control. you and your boy
want complete control. some of us don't
3 Nephi 11:29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of
contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention,
and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.3 Nephi 11:30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the
hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that
such things should be done away.
ACTUALLY, no one wants to secede politically from the Union, but a growing
number of citizens are just fed up with the Feds. The claim is that President
Obama is "The Great Divider of the Union". The government, under his
rule, is a bully through his unilateral policies and practices. Time will tell
if the claim is accurate or not. Right now, however, there is a growing
"divide" among the citizenry. The divide and frustration are real and
significant. It cannot be ignored or simply explained away.
"As you may recall, many on the left said there would be rioting if Romney
won, and many threatened assassination"What are you talking
about? I have seen reports of people being arrested for plotting to kill the
existing president - but haven't seen what you are reporting. I don't
doubt it, but to think there haven't been the very same threats made
against Obama lacks credibility. "How are they less American
than you?"Because they are not asking to leave the country -
they are asking for policy change. That is a quantum difference.One
can disagree with the government, and even protest, and still be a
"patriot". To threaten to dissolve the union, I don't see how
under any definition that is being patriotic.
"Liberals" have long invested energy in petitions to assuage their guilt
and convince themselves that they are doing something positive. There's no
harm in far right anger over losing an election manifesting itself partially in
these petitions that so romanticise the "golden age" of their country.
It's no different than that map from 10 years ago showing the red/blue
division of the states and organising them into two separate countries: The
United States of Canada for the blue and Dumb F..istan or Jesusland for the red.
Those maps were good for a laugh, especially because of their mischievous names;
these petitions are just as humorous, though by some coincidence they lack the
whimsy and cleverness of their secessionist siblings on the other side of the
fence. Let petitions wave o'er the land of the free. The
Constitution requires neither patriotism nor intelligence in the citizens from
which it says it draws its authority; these petitioners remain protected under
her mystical, noble aegis.
I seem to recall that when Bush was elected, I remember the press doing the
rounds on famous celebrities who were moving to Europe because they
couldn't stand to live in a country that didn't have their candidate
in charge. I suspect this is much the same sort of movement...
Aren't these the same people who have been calling themselves super
These individuals are “cherry picking” their loyalty. They are
patriotic when it is convenient, otherwise known as COWARDS! When democracy
goes against them, they are prepared to jump ship. Sounds like they would be
better served in a dictatorship.To anyone that signed the petition,
I request they leave, and find a better place to leave.
Petitioning to dismantle the nation that so many men over the years gave their
lives to form and then to keep intact, that's a great way to remember the
veterans at this time.A few posters have blamed Bush administration
policies for the mess. I voted for Obama in 2008. He promised change from
those policies but once elected, he continued them. We're still in two
unfunded wars, Guantanamo Bay is still in operation, patriot act policies are
even more invasive to private life. Lobbyist still overrun Washington, Govt. is
now less transparent. Obama did not change anything, and Romney did not put
forth any message that he had any intentions to change these policies. Obama did
not earn my vote in 2012.Rather than petition to secede from the
union, People should be petitioning to get the US out of Afghanistan and Iraq,
to bring the troops home. petition to allow the voices of govt. whistleblowers
be heard. petition to do away with drones and kill lists. petition for a
budget.We just had a chance to make some changes in government, but we
pretty much put the same people back in office that contributed to this mess.
Petitions like this are common. 2000, 2004, and 2008, in just recent elections.
Nothing ever comes of it. On top of that, these people have the attention span
of a gnat. Something else is bound to catch their eye in a week or two. The
worst that will happen is a few flags get flown upside down and a few more
Doomsday/End of the World supply stores will have a better end line in this
I'm amused at all those who are taking this symbolic gesture literally.
Give me a break! Those who are petitioning are simply reminding our government
that it governs with their permission, and they want some accountability from
their public servants. Those of you who are so judgmental of the petitioners
really ought to read The Declaration of Independence, which outlines some
principles that need to be put into play here and now.While this
petition drive will not amount to anything at this time, it is good to put our
government on notice that we expect better than massive indebtedness and massive
regulation and massive immorality. The principles still apply.One
more thing. Some are calling this petition drive "racist," and
"troubling" as it hearkens back to slavery, etc. Bah Humbug! Get over
it, people. Protesting bad government is not racist. No one is suggesting a
return to slavery. No one cares about your complexion. Bad government is the
issue here! Godless tyranny is the issue here! Every God-fearing, patriotic
American ought to sign on to this symbolic protest to tell the government we
expect more responsible governance than we are getting.
These people have every right to feel this way especially considering what has
transpired the last six years! The irresponsible spending of Obama and his merry
band of looney tunes back to the latter part of Bush's 2nd term when the
democrats took over both houses.You people that think Obama is something special
you have another thing coming and when it happens you won't be happy about
it and you have yourselves to blame. Frankly we aren't going to pay this
debt off unless the complete and total waste is stopped. Like a treadmill for a
shrimp,or the mating habits of flies or any of those other idiotic causes.Stop
the overspending now,cut your over inflated salaries and pay more for your own
darn health insurance. That would be a start and the other is get you lifers out
of Washington! Our forefathers didn't intend our system of govt to be run
by a select few all the time.
The unfunded Mandates signed for by GW Bush include, 2 Wars, unpaid for 2
trillionMedicaid part D, CBO says it will be 8 Trillion2 Stimulus
packages, unpaid for700 Billion bank bailoutWhere were you
fiscal hawks during those 8 years?Now you lose an election and you
cry about it? Please, spare me. I was a Republican and when I asked how we
were paying for all this I was told by other Republicans that I was unpatriotic.
Well, shoe is on the other foot now you unpatriotic Republicans.
This petition is only a symbolic gesture. What isn't symbolic and is a
serious threat is the 47% turning into 55% or 75%.If Obama raises taxes and when
Obamacare is fully implemented, millions more Americans will move into the
"taker" group. In a real way, that's a real "succession from
the union" of producers. But it keeps getting Democrats elected doesn't
Texas does not need a petition nor permission to secede. Texas joined the Union
as an already Independent Nation by TREATY, a condition of which was that Texas
could also leave the Union peaceably any time it deems appropriate.Now, I think we are stronger together than apart - for the moment - but
don't think Texas could not stand alone. And it does not have to ask
I''m a little surprised that the Deseret News would waste our time
with this non-story.
Yes, sucession is crazy but the federal government has gotten too big and is out
of control. If you don't agree, regardless of party affiliation, you are
The terrorists are winning by the Bush years standards. Remember when the Dixie
Chicks got Dixie Chicked for much less? Rememeber when people were pouring out
thier French wines in the street and lapel pins were the true sign of a
patriot?I say leave, all of you move to Texas and leave. Good luck,
don't let the door hit ya.
The situation in our country is why we should return to the Founding
Father's idea of 50 states having equal power with the government. Some
people want the government to do things for them and to allow the government to
handle everything. Others of us want minimal government involvement in our
lives - "teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves."
Why not allow the people to chose on a more local level. Those in the
Northeast, Upper Midwest and California can have socialized health care,
extensive government welfare, regulations that govern what they eat and lots of
taxes. Those of us who do not need the government to tell us what to do can
find states that believe in individual freedom and responsibility. I do not
think the government should enforce my views on you. Why do liberals and many
conservatives feel the need to force their views of what it right on me.
I thought Obama was going to bring unity? If states start to
withdraw,--who'se going to pay off the debt, and provide entitlements?
The issue of secession is a symptom of the deep frustration that many are
feeling when they consider how their elected officials conduct themselves the
day after the election. Many develop a "tin ear", and immediately
embrace the toxic atmosphere of Washington, D.C. and forget that they were sent
there to represent their constituents, and not there own self-interest. It this
issue gains traction it will produce a serious national debate that should gain
the attention of our elected officials and help them to suddenly remember who
the represent and why they were elected..... hopefully....
The federal government is the only thing keeping the local government from
really getting in your face. Look at Utah and all it's crazy ordeneces.
It's hardly the bastian of freedom I would want. laws are a
function of population density. Move to the country and go nature boy all you
When I stand before Almighty God, I would rather be judged for "fiscal
irresponsibility" in helping the poor and needy with our taxpayer dollars
than put a few more bucks into 40,000 sq foot homes of people unwilling to pay
for their employees healthcare. Ye will know them by their fruits.NEWS FLASH, the healthcare bill IS A REPUBLICAN PLAN. Sutherland institute
thought it up in the 90's, Mitt ran it in Mass., the reason Republicans
have no way to replace it is because it was THEIR PLAN. Ye will know them by
their fruits.Left the GOP when the party was taken over by self
righteous angry people looking to have their way and their way only. Not only
did they crash the economic car, they wanted the keys back after doing NOTHING
to atone for their mistakes. Ye will know them by their fruits.I
will no longer be part of a party that stands and is funded by billionaires
looking to bend the system even more, hide their money in offshore accounts, and
verbally abuse the poor and sick. Ye will know them by their fruits.
These petitions are silly. That being said, I believe I understand
where these people are coming from. If I am a war protester in the
seventies, I fled to Canada and they accepted me. Today if I am
homosexual and marriage is important to me, I have many states or even countries
to flee to. If I want legalized drugs, I have many states or even
countries to flee to. If want to live in a liberal enclave,
someplace with socialized medical care, etc... there are places to flee to. HOWEVER, if I am a modern conservative, where do I flee to? Nowhere.
There is no place with our heritage and traditional values. The only answer in
some people's mind is secession. As misguided as that thought
is, I understand the sentiment.
Part 1Dear Red States: We're ticked off at your
Neanderthal attitudes and politics and we've decided we're leaving.
We in New York intend to form our own country and we're taking
the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware that
includes California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan,
Illinois and the rest of the Northeast. We believe this split will
be beneficial to the nation and especially to the people of the new country of
The Enlightened States of America (E.S.A). To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states. We get stem cell
research and the best beaches. We get Andrew Cuomo and Elizabeth
Warren. You get Bobby Jindal and Todd Akin. We get the Statue of
Liberty. You get OpryLand. We get Intel and Microsoft. You get
WorldCom. We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss. We get
85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You
get Alabama. We get two-thirds of the tax revenue. You get to make
the red states pay their fair share.
Part 2Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the
Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of
single moms. With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control
of 80% of the country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and
lettuce, 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality
wines (you can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90
percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal, all living
redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus
Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT. With the Red States you
will have to cope with 88% of all obese Americans and their projected health
care costs, 92% of all US mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes, 90% of the
hurricanes, 99% of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists,
Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia. We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.
I have a big truck and also a company plane. They are free for you to use to
expedite your exodus.
If you think that America should remain united as one, sign this petition today!
Make a statement that we are Americans and to withdraw from the union is not
what we want. Go to "We the People" and sign the petition Keep the
United States United
Look at the bright side. The more whacky the Tea Party members act, the more
marginalized they become. If Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck sign the petition, we
have hope. If the Republican Party can escape this nonsense it can become a
viable Party again. As long as the "right wingers" have control, the
Republican Party will continue to lose elections. Utah needs to avoid this
nonsense like the plague. If we are seen as part of this whacky thinking, we
will continue to be viewed as a fringe element in American politics.
Anyone wanting to secede because 1 man became president they don't like are
not Patriots of the United States of America. They are cowards and traitors.
Those idiots are free to leave our country, but they don't get to take any
of our country with them.
I hope secessionists are not deterred by the amazing amount of nasty comments
sent their way. Remember the Founding Fathers got the same treatment from
blue-blooded 'American' Tories.
@justme001Again, you must educate yourselves before you comment.
You do not have to leave the country, it is a seperation from government people.
Not from the United States of America. You all keep saying where are you going
to move to, get out and the whole bit. You don't even know what you are
talking about. If Utah pulls away from the government, I still get to stay
right here and support any new local leaders. It is no different trying to
become part of the union. It bugs me when people are not educated. This is all
talk anyway, people are just trying to make a point and all you lefties think it
is for real. This article is has so many post on it and the majority are
lefties. It will be interesting to see where you all are in 4 years and what
comments will come then. I am proud to be an American. I served my countty
dilegently during Desert Storm / Desert Shield. I don't remember this
being what I fought for. There is no one nation under God, with Obama as
president we are One Nation Divided Under God.
There is an old expression that would be an appropriate answer to these
petitioners, "PUSH! PULL! OR GET OUT OF THE WAY!" It is ludicrous at
best that economic conservatives lose sight of all the hand ups and yes hand
outs they get to allow their businesses to succeed in this country. How many
dump sites has the federal government or state government had to clean up after
business leave their waste behind. How many are yet to be discovered. Business
says get government off their backs, how about making businesses pay for all the
PUBLIC services they use to do their business. It is high time Americans start
pulling together with the kind of central purpose that has lifted us out of all
the other holes we have found ourselves in. Forget the political rhetoric and
just work together to find real solutions our grandchildren AND us can live
CRAZY! I thought some of those State's voted for Obama? It is kind of like
a 1960's or 1970's rock concern "Out of Control".
This President's initial political statement was "Hope" and
"Change". It appears that those who hoped for change got it with a
Constitutional lawyer that changed the definition of "is" to what Bill
Clinton wanted. Our Founding Fathers got a change when they fought
against the tyranny of the time, "Taxation without representation." Our
elected Representatives in Congress are supposed to work with the elected
President and Vice-President. However, the President in this case has forced
his own party in Congress to come up with a Health Care Plan that comes back to
taxation without representation. Our country was founded upon freedom and
ensuring domestic tranquility. However, the provide for the common defense
doesn't mean protection of our borders it means getting something for
nothing for many of the people that live here. It is supposed to be citizens
but the border has allowed us to have a large percentage that aren't
citizens legally. John Stossel showed people in Chicago didn't
even know the definition and meaning of freedom. It would be interesting to see
the Jay Lenos of the world asking what freedom means to this past election.Freedom comes with a price always.
to Mike in Sandy. Thank you for all we get. All of our states are the food
states. We will see you when you want to eat.
I am not sure why this was censored at first.The petitions are
merely symptoms of our real problem. Americans increasingly lack integrity and
are political hypocrites. Liberals decry "Bush's Wars" and
conveniently forget that Hillary, John Kerry and most of the Democrats voted for
them. They claim "George Bush was a war criminal and incompetent in the way
he fought the wars", but Obama is just wonderful even though he admittedly
used drones to kill U.S. citizens without so much as a court hearing and despite
the fact that more U.S. soldiers have died during the Obama administration than
during Bush.Conservatives on the other hand, are fearful of
Obama's policies, but had little problem with the Patriot Act and
Bush's expansion of Medicare. Lets face it. We are $16 Trillion
in debt and heading to financial ruin. Two-thirds of that debt has been created
during our last 2 presidents. Obama's current budget is 50% greater than
Clinton's last budget after accounting for inflation. Most people agree
that we have to cut the budget - but just don't cut my programs.
Mike in Sandy needs better information. Look at the map by county and tell me
exactly what blue voters "will take with them" besides high rises and
parking lots, slums, and some academic institutions. The pine apple fields and
many of the beaches would stay red enough to give us a little pleasure. But we
are working a lot and producing the money that feeds the majority of the takers
so we don't have a lot of time to "play on the beach anyways". You
also don't have high divorce rates when the parents of children of welfare
and liberal elites don't bother to marry to begin with. Much of the wealth
of those blue counties is created by the "red individuals" of drive and
success which generates the massive wealth. When you talk of individual
exceptionalism you talk of the "red spirit". The blues would get the
inner cities of the south which represents the "obesity" that they
disdain. If you look at my state it is very few counties with such high density
population that represent such a small geographic area. Yet my state is
It would be interesting to read the editorial comments that were published in
1860 when rumors of secession were going around. I bet a lot of people dismissed
it then too. If you compare conditions in the country today with conditions that
existed back then you will see some alarming parallels and that should make both
conservatives and liberals reevaluate what is going on now. Better to learn from
the mistakes of others then to end up repeating them
Mike in Sandy - you are funny!! The patriots who fought for freedon in the
Revolutionary War were the liberals of their day. They were the progressives.
The conservatives were the Tories. The liberals wanted a new system
of government and a new way of living (progressive philosophy.) The Tories
wanted things to stay the same. It was to their advantage to keep things the way
they were, or so they thought. That is the conservative philosophy.As for
the person who listed the reasons the South seceded originally - the South
overestimated their resources in a war against the United States and its
resources. They underestimated the cost in money and human lives to keep
their States' Right to own, exploit, kill and otherise dehumanize millions
of people.600.000+ people died because they started the Civil War.And some of the people in those states still think they were right.
The U.S. last balanced its budget in 2001. Between 2001 and 2011, spending
increased by 5.9% GDP (from 18.2% GDP in 2001 to 24.1% GDP in 2011), while
revenues declined by 4.1% GDP (from 19.5% GDP in 2001 to 15.4% GDP in 2011),
resulting in a 8.7% GDP deficit for 2011. Medicare/Medicaid spending increased
by 2.0% GDP and defense spending increased by 1.7% GDP from 2001 to 2011.
Individual income tax revenues fell by 2.4% GDP and payroll taxes fell by 1.3%
GDP from 2001 to 2011.(CBO)In June 2012, CBO summarized the
cause of change between its January 2001 estimate of a $5.6 trillion cumulative
surplus between 2002 and 2011 and the actual $6.1 trillion cumulative deficit
that occurred, an unfavorable "turnaround" or debt increase of $11.7
trillion. Tax cuts and slower-than-expected growth reduced revenues by $6.1
trillion and spending was $5.6 trillion higher. Of this total, the CBO
attributes 72% to legislated tax cuts and spending increases and 27% to economic
and technical factors. Of the latter, 56% occurred from 2009 to 2011.
When people make sweeping generalizations about others, they are almost always
going to miss important exceptions. Not all conservatives believe exactly the
same as every other conservative, nor moderates, nor liberals as other liberals.
When someone says "all you Lefties" think or believe this petition is
real, he is simply wrong. He has no idea even who he's talking to or what
he's talking about. The same is true of people who think all
conservatives want or believe the same thing.This political divide started
long before anyone even knew who Obama was. It isn't his fault. To blame it
all on him is not only ignorant, it's unproductive and foolish.It was
happening before 9/11, it was happening when the Constitution was being
written.People believe differently about things. They think only they and
others who believe as they do are right. They talk among themselves and
reinforce these beliefs. But others feel differently.The beauty of this
country is that no one group gets to have their way all the time.It works
best when we work for the common good and not just to get our own way all the
Where were these people on election day? They had a right to vote, and if they
were old enough to vote they should have been old enough to vote for a true
American, who follows the rules of this country. I am a decendant of th
original settlers of this great nation, and I am now old enough to give advise.
If you are not happy with the way this country is being led, then remember you
have a right to vote and there is another election coming up in a couple of
years, are you going to vote for an Obama backer, or are you going to vote for
men who want to save this country? My ancestors were also driven out of
Illinois and established the great state of Utah, why because they needed the
freedom to worship as they pleased, they suffered much, and helped to make the
State of Utah a great state. They did not leave the country, they merely
established a State where they could live by the Constitution of the United
States and have freedome of Religion which they were not enjoying in Illinois,
and Missouri. Please remember their sacrifices.
After reading a few comments, I went to the Petitions website and found that a
Log-on Account needed to be created before actually signing the petition. At that point, I was given pause by the fact that over the past two
years, President Obama has signed a number of Executive Orders suspending all
civil and Constitutional rights and turning over management of an America under
Martial Law to FEMA, whereby, Americans can be labeled as "Terrorists"
without Due Process and their passports revoked, which results, at least, in
making them political and financial prisoners in their own country. Very likely those that "cling to guns, religion and who are veterans"
are already on such a list. It is just WRONG for any government to
be so powerful and to be able to exert such control over the Individual in the
process of Petitioning their government, to cause them to hesitate in expressing
their true feelings, REGARDLESS OF THE CAUSE THEY SEEK.I'm sure
that the framers of our Constitution never anticipated a government so
unquestionable so as to limit the Free Speech of an individual by forcing them
to consider the possible Federal punishments for doing so.
We are (by the original design) United STATES -- 50 (now) separate, essentially
self governing countries UNITED in just a few common interests... defense,
commerce, human rights. But what has eroded and occurred is we have become the
United Counties or United Cities or just the United Citizens of America in
continued march to centralize everything. This isn't new. 1912 17th
Amendment changes from State Government appointing US Senators (to represent the
state government) to people (United Citizens) electing senators. 1909 16th
Amendment created the Federal Income Tax (clearly the Federal government would
be less powerful if it had less $$$ and less capacity to get more $$$). Bottom
line, and evidenced by many commenting on this article, we've lost the
concept of statehood... of why half of our Federal legislature, where two
halves have to agree, 100 people (unfairly chosen and representative in terms of
of population and geography, exists. We are supposed to be separate STATES,
separate governments, basically separate countries united by a common treaty
known as the US Constitution. If Succession is required to move back towards
that, maybe that isn't such a bad thing.
One last word of advise from an older Senior Citizen, If you want to help get
down on your Knees and ask for help in accepting what is happening, and finding
an answer to how you can change things.
Frugalfly,You missed the point entirely. This was only supposed to
be funny. I did the best I could in a few minutes.Catch a cab.....
I wish we could just have the people who don't support the constitution
leave the country. They could move to Europe and help them run up their deficits
instead of our own.
When the going gets tough.....These people suceeding from the
country would probably like their state(Texas, and others) to be handed over to
them free and clear. Years have gone by where Texas and many other states took
fed tax dollars from California and other states so in order to pay that back
along with the cost of federal roads, highways, university and hospital
buildings in their state they would take on overhead that makes the current fed
deficit look like childs play. They are in line to take the money but when it
comes time to pay it back they want to be "beamed up".Check
the facts of those who are critical of Canada as a place to move to, a country
that has a higher standard of living, a greater life expectancy, a higher
standard of education, lower birth problems, higher income per capita, lower
unemployment than USA.Homeowners continue to think they should have
an interest deduction, that is an entitlement. The military is one of the worst
spenders in the country. Cut the military by 5% annually for 4
years, give back the interest deductions homeowners now enjoy and balance the
As I read all of these comments it is very obvious citizens are frustrated,
angry, disappointed, disillusioned and they don't know what to do with
these feelings and thoughts. Thank goodness there is a place to express those
concerns with Deseret News. This should be a very clear signal to the Obama
Administration(notice I said should) but the liberals do not care. Their main
stay is being in charge and they like that feeling. It's been obvious for
the last 4 years anyway that they only care about their own..Our wonderful
country has been and continues to be torn apart by those who dictate, who cheat,
lie, who thrive on power but I still believe the day is coming(not too far away)
when there will be once again, peace, love, charity, kidness and all the
meanness, negativity will be wiped from the earth. I look forward to that day
when there will be peace once again.
Who’s listening and believing the millionaire Joseph Goebbels on their AM
hate radios ranting about an America of “Us” vs. “Them”
Who’s trying to amend the Constitution when they don’t get
their way?Who’s trying to repeal passed amendments because they
disagree with them?Who’s screaming to change the democratic process
because their guy didn’t win?Who’s now trying to secede from
the Union because they aren’t getting everything their way?Who’s unwilling to compromise and move forward?Who’s
destroying America?Who’s trampling the Constitution?[Take note ultra-con-Tea-Partiers, I never once singled you out.]I
must admit, I can see why the Republicans need to change to survive –The republicans are quietly trying to shut Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean
Hannity, Mark Levin and FoxNews up.Meanwhile - Democrats just LOVE
having them on the air.Ironic that it’s the Republicans who
are clamoring limit free speech and silence the media.And it’s all
because of their OWN.
@LDS Liberal:"I also hope the Department of Homeland Security
keeps a list of each and everyone who signed it, and carefully tracks
them..."This is what the Democrats are seeking to do... called
autocracy. They have pined for it ever since the founding Fathers set up this
country to ensure freedom and tranquility.@Rock Of The Marne:"Decide which piece of barren land is going to be their new
homeland..."The 'land' will consist of the current
state boundaries. Some will be physically located next to each other. Others
will join so that only Washington DC will eventually belong to Obama. He can
keep the national debt. Most of it is his anyway."Oh by the
way, all military equipment and other infrastructure owned by the US is going to
be moved out..."Go ahead, rip up the interstate and tote it off.
Put all the asphalt and cement on the White House lawn.@Fitz:"This country has become as divided as it was in the 1860s."True. Then it was slavery. Today it's a issue of morals.
A tempest in a teapot. 500,000 sounds like a lot of people until you compare it
to 300,000 million. This is just a frivolous attempt to illustrate a tantrum.
It's too bad they're getting any attention for it. I seriously
doubt that even half of the signers are real, but even if there are that many
foolish individuals, they don't represent all the people in their
states.This petition is silly and shortsighted - the people who have
signed it, however many there really are, haven't thought it through.The're like children playing marbles - they lost, so they pick up their
marbles and go home in a sulk. Grownups work things out. They make
compromises - no one individual gets all of what they want all the time, but
everybody gets something sometimes.Maybe the country and in fact the world
are going to heck in a handbasket, but if so, it's been heading that way
for centuries. Sulking won't change anything.Growing up just might
Could they all move to Pitcairn Island?
If Texas could leave the United States, Oh, Happy days! Rick Perry could
finally be King, Jim Baker could be the court jester, Karl Rove the Secretary of
State, and America can have all the military bases and infrastructure back. We
could move NASA out of Huston and set big taxes and tolls for products coming
out of Texas into the U.S. Sadly, they won't leave. This is just a small
group of voters upset with the outcome and having a place to vent, are, venting.
@suzyk#1"It's been obvious for the last 4 years anyway that they
only care about their own"Could've sworn your candidate
said that 47% of the people are lazy and don't care about personal
responsibility and that he doesn't bother with them.@LDS
Liberal"Who’s listening and believing the millionaire Joseph
Goebbels "Nazi comparisons are out of line.@wrz"Today it's a issue of morals."Nah, just people
whining that they didn't get their way. Maybe conservatives should focus
more efforts on turning out to vote then turning out to eat Chik-fil-A. Perhaps
Republican secretaries of state should set up free food tables at polling
places. That'd get the conservative base out. Then again, it'd also
spike the vote among college students.
I think the people who want to secede should just self deport. There is a lot of
vacant land in the Australian outback. We will take up a collection to send you
on your way.
To "LDS Liberal" I don't know where you get your information, but
it is more biased than Gobles.The liberals (not just Democrats) are
doing all of those things while listening to Air America, CNN, and MSNBC.Liberals have ammended the Constitution to get their way. That is how
we ended up with Prohibition, and the Income tax ammendments.Repeal
ammendmetns, like the ammendment that repealed Prohibition, which was a liberal
cause.In 2000 and 2004 we head all the liberals wanting to do away
with the Electorial college, so again, we see liberalism rearing its head.The liberals were the first ones to try to succeed from the Union, your
ilk caused the civil war.So far I have not seen any compromise out
of your liberal friends. Harry Reid won't let any jobs bills passed by the
house even come up for vote in the Senate, and Obama won't sign a budget
unless the current tax cuts are not applied to those making $250000 or more.As for the Constitution, Obama let us know that he doesn't care
about it when he signed a law that allows the indefinate detention of US
citizens without a trial.
Someone blamed the Deseret News for putting this on here. Did you know that
Yahoo has been carrying this since last Friday when it was a mere 50,000
signatures with Texas and Louisiana leading the way. Yesterday when this was
first posted it was at 500,000 and now 600,000. Not much if you take into
account the entire US population. Yet many of you fail to see the divide that
is in this country. The Northeast up through the upper Midwest, stopped through
the entire middle of the United States and South with the exception of Florida.
The mountain west except Colorado and New Mexico, then the entire west coast
with the exception of Alaska. Taken in all it shows just how divided we are. I
wonder what many of you would say if these 600,000 were marching on DC at this
time. There wouldn't be enough room to stop them.Many of you
who accuse conservatives of being judgemental have all become hypocrites of your
own choosing. It was once said the United States would destroy itself from
within. You are watching history in the making.
Here is an interesting article from a few years ago: "As if Things
Weren't Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of US", Wall Street
Journal, 29 Dec 2008. He predicted that states would secede from
the Union starting in 2010. I guess he was only a couple of years off.
@Craig Clark:"On this day after Veteran's Day, I offer an
encore salute to those who serve to preserve for all the rest of us a country
that guarantees the right of every citizen to make a fool of himself."I don't think you should be calling our newly elected president a
'fool.' Can we not at least give him a chance? Wait! He had his
chance and, as others have posted, violated our Constitution and, yes, made a
fool of himself and almost ruined the mation.@justme001:"No, actually you can not stay here."Oh yeah... seceders
would take control of the land and all assets in the borders of the state
including federal properties. Not unlike what the Southern states woulda done
had they won the Civil War. The current government would keep the national
debt, though."You can not live in states that the federal
government owns more of then the state does."The federal
government would lose title the day after secession. As a matter of fact, China
would likely be asked to step in and help the seceding states. Can you imagine
what that would look like?
I am a rep. Andi have not signed. But i support those who did. I would like to
start a pitition stating something like thiis.those who do not belive
the ground work for govermemt oour for fathers started. Can leave this country.
Some simple rules they started. Jefferson. The best goverment is the least
goverment. A nation for freedom of religion. If you dont respect ones right to
worship leave. Killing of honest people is a crime. If you want to abort a
baby. Leave. The founding fathers were God fearing people who belived in the
bible. If you want to marry one of your own sex. Leave. I love this nation for
wich it stands . One nation under God. If you disagree leave. Im staying even
if im the last rep.thank you . It was a great ride from 1776 to 1012
Re: grandmagreat,"They did not leave the country. . . ."
Actually, I think they did. I believe the Salt Lake Valley was part of Mexican
territory at the time the pioneers went there. That territory was turned over
to the US in 1848. I'm on your side in this debate, by the
way, but I think it is important to be accurate. And I had actually started to
wonder, before hearing about secessionist petitions, if that sort of thing would
start up. I know that about half of the country is adamantly against being on
the path to becoming the USSA (United Socialist States of America). Perhaps we
could be divided into the URA (United Republics of America) for the
"red" states and the UDA (United Democracies of America) for the
Soul"The government, under his (Obama's) rule, is a bully
through his unilateral policies and practices."Listen, this is
what he learned in the nation of his birth (Kenya) and where he mostly grew up
(Indonesia). Why do the American people think he would be anything else?
People say if states seceed they will become a thrid worl country. Thats what
the British said during the revolution. People will be free to be as productive
as possible and it will not turn into total anarchy like the obamanoids
We would have no drug war, Little to no taxes, No NDAA and no patriot act. where
do I sign?
@wrz - Finally someone who actually understands how it works.@atl134
- "Nah, people just whining that they didn't get their way". Hmmm,
this sounds so familiar. Sounds just like all the libs over the past 4 years.
It is so funny how you lefties hate the way some of the righties responde, yet
when the tables are turned you do the exact same thing. And yet still you
can't recognize that the lefties still cannot create their own ideas.
Amusing. "Perhaps Republican secretaries of state should set up free food
tables at polling places" Are you referring to what you libbies did in PA,
FL, OH, NC, VA, WI, and many others. Or is that anything like the surprise
murals being painted on walls in polling places, or is it like the libbies
whining and kicking out Republican representatives. You guys crack me up. And
still I don't have to go anywhere, I get to stay right here in my state, it
is you who leaves if you don't want to live by our new rules. Jokes on
you lefties. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!
Wow, so many truly angry people here.There have been several who
have tried to gently explain why people signed the petition in the first place
-- for the majority of signers, yes listen closely, the "majority" of
signers. It has nothing, nada, zip, zilch, zero to do with actually
wanting to succeed from the US.It has everything to do with letting
our voices be heard that we aren't happy with the direction that the
socialist left leaning government leaders are taking us. And yes, I know they
are elected leaders - that only makes it feel worse.Yes, I voted and
yes, my candidate lost. I am more sickened that the majority of voters opted to
vote with the socialist left, than the specifics of my candidate loosing.
I'd guess that a large number of you won't understand that statement,
but I don't understand how you could vote the way you did either - so I
guess we're even.We all need each other, but the Robin Hood
(socialist) thinking of stealing (overtaxing) from the rich to give to the poor
will only create another Greece where everyone loses.
From the article's last paragraph: "Critics of the petitions have
responded with their own asking the government to deport everyone who signed the
petitions or to strip the citizenship of the people who signed the petitions
before exiling them."If you were to actually do that, who would
be left to put money into the coffers to pay the welfare outlays for the
majority of those remaining?!
@atl134:"Could've sworn your candidate said that 47% of the
people are lazy and don't care about personal responsibility and that he
doesn't bother with them."No, no. He said 47%
wouldn't vote for him. As it turned out he was wrong. It was more like
51%.But he was right about why they wouldn't vote for him...
It's called something like receiving government dole which they feared
Romney would curtail and make them go out and at least look for work.The other people that didn't vote for him were friends of illegal
immigrants, those who would like to marry someone of their own sex, and those
who would like to retain the exercise of dispatching the unborn... even if
partially born (Left Wingers call it 'abortion & partial birth
It's amazing -- and frightening -- that there are so many people out there
carrying the delusions they have.But cooler, wiser, better educated
Americans are sitting back rolling their eyes knowing that this too, shall pass.
As a side note -- when I mentioned "educated" readers, it is clearly
seen that many of those posting here about "succeeding" from the Union
don't quite fall into the educated category.Val Bagley had an
excellent and spot on cartoon in today's Salt Lake Tribune.
KLB1600,000 not 50,000And growing..........
There are at least as many legal immigrants waiting for citizenship who would be
thrilled to take your places.
@one old man...yes, I was wondering how long it would be before
someone caught my typo.I guess I was using a "lefty" spell
checkeroh, my true wish in life is to be as perfect as you...
You can sell your modest home here and buy a mansion in South America. There are
hardly any laws and law enforcement for that matter in South America. Just what
you think you want.Or really just suceede. You're more than
welcome to the south. Bu Bye Bubba.
1000's of people are boycotting UPS for being against freedom of religion
and freedom of speech and for what they did to the boyscouts.
Sad to see this state of the Nation. Those who say they should be stripped of
their citizenship are being absurd. We have the right under our Constitution to
ask for redress and this is one way of taking out their frustration and seeking.
Those who say strip them of Citizenship are probably the ones who voted for
Obama. They want to force their will on anyone who disagrees with them. I feel their frustration, but still cling to the idea that God
established this constitution and will stand behind it, IF we stand with him.
That is the problem, we are distancing ourselves from God every single day.
There will come a time when we will have gone too far and we will suffer the
consequences. Are the there yet, I don not know, but my prayers are much more
focused each night praying for the preservation of this nation.
I really don't understand how in the world so many people look down on
these people. Agree with these people or not it really doesn't matter. But
what they are doing is peacefully disagreeing with the current administration.
The key word here being peacefully! They aren't happy with the political
landscape and they are making their voice heard, that is all. I think we should
applaud them for speaking up (even if we don't agree) because this is the
way our great country has given us to do so.
The 10 states with the highest share of "non-payers" of federal income
taxes are in Red states. Most are in Southern (and Republican) states.
Meanwhile, the 13 states with the smallest share of "non-payers" are in
"blue" states. Most are Northeastern (and Democratic) states.There are some not-so-poor outliers, like the 7,000 millionaires who paid no
federal income taxes in 2011. But for the most part, when you hear "the 47
percent" you should think "old retired folks and poor working
families.""The 47 percent aren't lucky ducks cheating
the system. They're mostly poor WORKING families getting pilloried by the
political party that wrote the rules they're following. If the 47 percent
are the monster here, then Republicans helped play the role of Dr. Frankenstein.
"Non-payers" have grown in the last 30 years because of marginal tax
rate cuts and credits like the EITC passed under Republican presidents and
continued by both parties in Congress."(National Journal )
re: atl134 12:10 p.m. Nov. 14**@LDS Liberal"Who’s
listening and believing the millionaire Joseph Goebbels "Nazi
comparisons are out of line.**Disagree. If Professor Beck can play
the Nazi card then LDS Lib playing it is just a case of turnabout being fair
play.@ RedShirt 12:20 p.m. Nov. 14"The liberals were
the first ones to try to succeed from the Union, your ilk caused the civil
war."No. The south wanted cheap labor & states rights hardly
liberal causes causes then or now.
re: TexasBlueGetting called out about something important &
whining about. Gotta love Conservatives!?
600,000 vs 62M. Good Riddance!
Sore losers... All these people advocating this are the same who yell at coaches
and refs in youth sports when thing do not go there child's (team)
way...Some people can work together to achive or contibute to a goal, others
just quite... Character folks - Get some ... and do not just get angry or
Well, TexasBlue, you can do it. But it will take Personal Responsibility and
Hard Work. Those of who are called "libs" by so many others aren't
stingy about it. We'll even offer to help you get there. Public education
is available. There are Pell Grants and other avenues to education.And all you have to do shout Praise the Lord three times a day, and you, too
will be perfect.
Why do liberals turn to name calling when someone disagrees with their
positions? Tea-party people are not unbalanced. Many are very educated people
who simply disagree with the tax and spend policies of the federal government.
Signing these petitions is a way of showing their displeasure with the current
direction of the country. Free speech isn’t dead yet. I know liberals
don't like it when a conservative speaks their mind.
I know right? Can you believe all of these sore losers wanting to secede? Just
like those hooligan Founding Fathers. Bunch of whiners. Long live King George
and long live Barack Obama.
It's unbelievable that people who call themselves Americans would want to
do such a thing! Why it's like children who, after not getting their way at
home, storm out of the house to go live, where, with their friends? With the
shoe now on the proverbial other foot, we, as citizens, should get over the
division of the election and come together for the good of the entire country.
Why even Mitt Romney, if he meant what he said in his succession speech, should
be willing to assist the elected president in getting this country's
economy back to its standards; he and the rest of his party.The
constitution is, as many other laws, interpreted, usually, to suit the reader.
Peace on earth and good will toward men?? Well I do love the song but I suspect
that conservatives and liberals want no part of this sort of cease fire even at
Christmas. Any good will was squandered over the past year and united we stand
but divided we fall. Neither side will blink and there is a good reason - both
sides are sooooo far apart ideology wise ... you might as well expect to jump
across the Grand Canyon as bring both sides together. The "United"
States is no more. Welcome to the divided states. But wait... don't we have
the great uniter in the White House?? Yes the man that just by virtue of his
words can bring parties together - make terrorist nations like Iran love us
etc.... ??? I forgot that was part of the faded hope n change poster of 2008.
The US is a ship with no rudder and no captain..but we do have a community
organizer !!! Have a holly jolly Christmas...before the new taxes kick in!!
The moment we stop thinking others as "Americans" and it is "Us Vs
Them" we really have already lost the battle. When we immediately reject an
idea because of the source, any chance of unity and productivity goes with
it.Most if not all Americans really want the same thing from
Government: The protection of Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness. Where we
differ is on how, and how to fund it. These are really a matter of degrees, and
not diametrically opposed views. Nobody wants Uncle Sam in certain aspects of
their lives, and they wish to be left alone to live their life as they see
fit.If we could simmer down the emotions, and have a conversation
from that perspective it would be amazing what we could accomplish. If there is
divisiveness, it is a failure to listen and an overwhelming desire to ensure one
is heard. Be the change you want in the world.
Darrel, either you're for high taxes and even higher spending on bailouts
and handouts to corrupt special interests (hence increasing deficits and debt)
or you are against such unsustainable behavior. It's ludicrous to be
'balanced' or 'middle of the road' on this issue. At least
I'm not going to be the one to say 'Hey, I believe in a balanced
approach. Let's only bail out HALF of the horrible businesses as before. Or
let's only give AIG, General Motors, and Solyndra HALF of what we
originally planned on giving them. That doesn't make any sense. It's
time to throw the baby out with the bath water, because let's be honest,
there really isn't much baby. Only a whole lot of filthy, corrupt, bloated,
stinking, bath water. No more compromises. No more middle of the road
approaches. Either the totally incompetent and immoral federal government stop
altogether stealing from honest people just trying to work and pay their bills
so they (the feds) can pay off the special interests keeping them in power or
expect serious, secessionist protest.
It should be noted that the first attempt by Americans to secede was quite
successful although bloody. I am referring to our secession from an oppressive
government, ie. Great Britain. When it was tried again by Southern States
things still turned bloody and those States were forced to return to the Union.
This situation is not all that different than the very first time. An
oppressive government causes more problems than it corrects. Many feel that our
Federal Government has become more oppressive. Pres. Obama has increased
wiretaps on citizens far more than were done under Bush. That one example along
with the cover up and lies about Benghazi lead many to form distrust with the
Feds. My only hope is that this time it's not so bloody.
Haha, Bobby Jindal called for the GOP to "stop being the stupid party",
I guess they aren't going to take his advise. Classic. It's sorta fun
watching the Republicans sliding into irrelevance. But also kinda sad, for
indeed, they used to be that grand old party. Oh well. It's rather
interesting to watch the Tea Party destroy a political party.
Legalized slavery was once a cause for war.Today, legalized theft,
and, harsh regulations, aimed at successful Americans, are causing states to
consider withdrawing from the Union.Legalized abortions are
contrasted to legalized slavery.We are in need of leadership.
I am appalled at all the negativity fired between extremists on either side of
this issue. Whatever happened to agreeing to disagree? Hurling insults at each
other is NOT going to bring this country together. What's done is done.
All we can do now is to do the best we can with what we have. People on BOTH
sides of the issue need to grow up and start acting like responsible adults,
instead of like bickering children.
@killpackI never advocated a middle of the road approach (although I
certainly wouldn't rule the possibility of one working out), I only said
that we are much more alike than we are different, and that if we seek to listen
and understand more, and be heard less, that we can get so much more done; for
the benefit of all.Is there corruption in government? Absolutely.
Is the government corrupt? I don't think so. If it is, we really have no
one but ourselves, the People to blame. Do we have problems as a
nation? Yes. Are the solvable? Yes. We need to stop this partisan rhetoric,
stop the blame game and seek solutions.
Sedition with the threat of insurrection, wow people way to go. I have more
than once raised my right hand to protect and defend this country against
threats both foreign and domestic. Before my eyes I am seeing people choosing
to be domestic enemies of the state. Be careful for what you wish for. Your
actions just may lead to everyones free speech rights being curtailed (see
Aliens and Sedition Act). Things can go too far. For me, I throw my lot in
with my country, right or wrong. Besides only cowards (secessionists)
leave/quit when things get tough.
Worf, if you have information about any states considering withdrawal from the
union (as opposed to small numbers of residents within a state signing symbolic
petitions about withdrawal), could you please provide links to where the
plebiscites are being scheduled?
I am totally astonished and flabbergasted. All my life adults have been drilling
into me what a wonderful thing our "DEMOCRACY" is, what a blessing to be
able to have the freedom to vote for whom you choose and RESPECT THE OUTCOME.
Up until the last two elections, I did not vote because I really did not believe
my vote mattered. I still wonder if my voice is lost in the shuffle with
millions of others but, at least I exercise my freedom to vote and hope for the
best. I guess, I expected the more seasoned adults with the power of voice and
representation to behave with dignity. I would like someone to name 1 president
who did not make a single mistake in his presidency. I would almost consider
the behaviors of these "people of 36 states" treasonous. You don't
turn your back on your country simply because you did not get your way.
That's the behavior of a two year old in the middle of the crisis of the
terrible twos. I am really disappointed in what I have read and heard. I still
believe in "America". This only fuels other countries showing us as
'600,000 residents across the country petition White House to withdraw from
U.S.’-----These are the same people who were
calling themselves patriots before the election.
Somebody said on here that the "Tea Party" is destroying the Republican
party. Although I am a Republican and wouldn't give you spit for Obama. I
am stuck with the clown for another four years. And, even though I do agree
that the "Tea Party" has caused some divide. I just don't see them
being the pone destroying the Republican party. After this election I said to a
family member, I really do not see a Republican being elected president again.
Unless it is someone who is a liberal republican, moderate if you will.
Republicans are obviously the conservative party, and to me what is destroying
the Republican party is the way our society is becoming more and more liberal.
The beliefs our country was founded on are just about gone. It is very
disapointing that society today feels they know more than those who established
it. Just as Flat Tops, Straight Leg Pants, they now call skinny jeans, etc. all
works in cycles. Our country is doing the same thing, things will get worse
before they get better people. And you liberal Obama fans are driving us there.
Your pride is in the way.
What will be interesting as this goes forward... [and it is not going away - it
is impossible to sweep under the rug. As our currency, monetary and fiscal
policy drive us to worse, forced austerity measures than Greece is going
through, the riots, protests and disruption in America will happen. The world
gets to rely on the Dollar and our Central Bank to bolster their
'fake' Keynesian Economy/currency. We have no one to turn to. As a
side note Sen Sanders (I-Vermont) has the first and only audit of the Federal
Reserveon his site. Under Bernake/Obama/Geithner they loaned out $16 trillion to
banks, roughly a quarter of that to EU banks - Greece in America will
happen.]You would never see grafiti in totalitarian regimes. NEVER!
The reason, the STATE never wants people to see others think just like them.
They want everyone to feel like they are the only ones who demand freedom. All
grafiti, all public expressions of freedom must be removed. Obama attempted to
control the internet to include all passwords. Crazy? Consistent.As
we move past Greece...freedom will win. I predict megacities like New York
becoming City-states like Singapore.
We seceded from England and it was a wonderful thing. The government has become
self serving and authoritarian. it's time to change it just like the
declaration of independence says we should.
Everybody knows that federal money is about as valuable as monopoly money. we
are so in debt and we have the private federal reserve bank printing money like
it's going out of style. printing more money doesn't increase the
value of our dollar, it decreases it. States can do just fine without worthless
federal monopoly money. If people are productive and the government allows them
to be productive, they will prosper no matter what.I got a message
for our federal authoritarian oligarchy. Lead, Follow or get the Heck out of our
Yup..secession would be great...get rid of a few states. Or if these are only
individuals, let them have their wishes, and deport them. Make room for the 12
million who really want to be here -- perhaps they can simply exchange
'papers', make it simple. Perhaps there would be a greater attitude of
gratitude. Wish all those who threatened to leave in 2008 would have left, our
economy would be better off without those quitters.
JMT: You would never see grafiti in totalitarian regimes. NEVER! As
a matter of fact, graffiti was and continues to be a significant cultural
phenomenon in most authoritarian states. It's one way that people have to
express ideas and create art outside the structures of the totalitarian state
and at lest cost (in more ways than one) than samizdat publications (in the case
of USSR). A surprising number of people commenting on the DN site display an
over reliance on baseless assertions and a priori certainties. There are too
many purveyors of personal testimonies that don't comport with facts on the
ground in the real world -- facts that are widely known to less parochial, less
Imperfect I am, even bleow the dust of the earth.3rd Nephi 11:30Behold this is not my doctrine to stir up the eharts of men with anger one
agasinst another, but this is my doctrine that such such things should be done
away.It seems that the richer states of wealth have forgotten the
reason for the declaration of independence. When a king ceases to be a king and
becomes a tyrrant. which defined it's case to be each others keeper with
respect and with power. Are we to be one nation under God. I still say yes we
are. As far as I am concerned those wishing to seceed has Just said we are not
here to produce one nation under God, and one nation who cares for there brother
both in both respect and power.
To "rsatinfun" you are wrong. The states who want to seceed have said.
We are tired of being over taxed, under protected, lied to, healthcare mandates
that increase the cost of insurance, expansion of government further into our
lives, government aid to terrorist groups, and many other reasons. The point
is, just like the Declaration of Independance, the states that want to seceed
are doing so because of excessive government intrusion and loss of freedom.Go and read the declaration, and compare that to events over the past 4
years. Now, you wil have to be objective and can't put on liberal
The ScientistProvo, UT"It is just this kind of extreme, over the
top, overblown, irrational, unbelievable rhetoric and nonsense that lost the
Republic of Tea Party the election the past two times. Honestly, it is like
listening to a spoiled two year old child throw a tantrum. What an
embarassment."For a moment I thought you were talking about OWS
(speaking of petulant children being an embarrassment). But, of course, you
couldn't have been, since OWS was praised by Obama, Pelosi, et al.
To all those who want to deport the people who signed the petitions, what
happened t! Yo their constitutional rights of freedom of expression? They are
expressing their dissatisfaction at the way the federal government is running
and you want to throw them out. You should run for office. You would fit right
in with the rest of the commies! Whatever happened to home of the free?
I voted for Romney and was very disappointed to see President Obama reelected,
but this movement to secede from the U.S. is crazy!!! It is typical of extreme
factions who won't play by the rules that they claim to support.One of the big reasons for Romney's defeat is that the Republicans have
alienated minorities with an attitude of looking down on anyone who is not like
us. Deport them, make them speak English, refuse to alow them necessary medical
care, and so on. I believe in law and order, but our immigration system is
BROKEN. And now the Republican party has boxed itself into minority status
(ironic!) by its anti-minority attitudes - and even anti-women at times
although women are now the majority of voters. Even more ironic,
right wing extremists who always claim to be in favor of the constitution now
want to turn their backs on a constitutionally elected president and leave the
country! So much for being pro-constitution!!!I believe that Obama
has us on the wrong track, but we can't turn this country around without
working together, even with people who are not like "us."
I should add the following: I know that the mainstream media exaggerates and
distorts the conservative view and is partly to blame for this perception that
conservatives are anti-minority, but conservatives are also very much to blame
because of some of their extreme rhetoric.
Anti Bush Obama, really? The dollar is worth as much as Monopoly money? Really?
Outstanding. Of course you are right. Tell you what, I've got some Monopoly
money, I'll trade you straight across. I'll trade you for every single
penny you've got. You should be cool with that, right? Seeing as they are
worth just about the same. Tell you what, I'll even trade you 2 for 1, what
do say? Relax, free america, no one is going to get thrown out for
signing any petition. The commies in office? You don't know what communist
is. How sad.
Good to see some of you are keeping up the time honored liberal tradition of
viciously bashing anyone who doesn't agree with you. "Domestic
terrorists", really? "Deportation", pray tell where would they
deport everyone - Guantonomo? Oh wait, that's been closed, hasn't it?
NO? Stay classy!Cooler heads that are not signing petitions are
wondering when some people are going to wake up! The ire this President is
riling up is unprecedented! And it's not due to his race, but his brain!No
one is thinking there may be something to it? Really?
SLC Gal, you really don't think that there is any vicious bashing that
comes from the right? Please. As far as the "ire" this
President is supposedly "riling" up, nothing could be further from the
truth. The "riling" is coming from only one place: conservative pundits.
Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Levin, FOX "News", and others like
them, these are the people that have done everything possible to divide people,
to foment anger and hate, to instigate hostility. And they did it not based on
one thing this President did, they did it only because he is a Democrat. Its
been ugly business the conservative chattering class has been involved in. Ugly
business. And no, there is absolutely nothing to it. Really.
@ mark"Haha, Bobby Jindal called for the GOP to "stop being
the stupid party", I guess they aren't going to take his advise.
"The real question is when will he have to recant &
apologize to the head of the GOP (Limbaugh)?
I\I think I understand why some states want to make a statement by these
secession requests. Just because Obama won this election doesn't mean that
he obeys the Constitutional laws. It simply means that the environs of the
United States is changing to an apathetic populace which no longer cares about
the Constitution. This, first and foremost includes the president who is a
champion of Socialism. Perhaps that's the point these states
are trying to make; maybe that's why they are requesting to secede.
Serenity, there is not one state that is making a request for secession. These
petitions have nothing to do with the states. And no the petitions are not
making some vague protest, they are specifically calling for secession. And if
the people that sign them do bit realize that, they are silly. Also,
you really should take the time to learn what socialism is. President Obama is
not a champion of it. Capitalism with safety nets and regulations is not
socialism. Not even close.