Quantcast
U.S. & World

News analysis: Testy vice presidential debate a wash, likely impact low

Comments

Return To Article
  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    Oct. 11, 2012 10:42 p.m.

    Joe Biden was very rude, disrespectful and condescending. I thought the moderator was accommodating him to do so, by allowing him to constantly interrupt Ryan's points he was attempting to make. It was a real turn-off for this independent.

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    Oct. 11, 2012 10:44 p.m.

    Nobody votes for the VP anyway, do they?

  • t702 Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 11, 2012 10:50 p.m.

    Both were strong on issues but thanks to Jo for laughing while serious issues such as Iran, Libya, economy, healthcare, etc were discussed. No wonder why the Obama Administration had been a failure - they are a joke according to Jo! Too bad the strong showing of Mr. Jo will be forgotten when images of his childish behavior during the debate dominate the discussions for days to come.

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    Oct. 11, 2012 10:58 p.m.

    Rather than slam Paul Ryan because of his lies, Joe was laughing at Ryan's outrageous statements.
    Many observers felt that was quite a creative way for Joe to handle the situation.

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    Oct. 11, 2012 11:25 p.m.

    @no fit in SG

    Actually, Biden is getting panned in the media for laughing and interrupting so much. I don't think he came off very well on the split screen. He looked arrogant rather than confident.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 11, 2012 11:30 p.m.

    Before the debate my opinion of Joe Biden was about a 1.5 out of 10. After the debate it sunk to a -5. In all my life in watching political debates I have never seen a more embarrassing and down right weird display than what the "show" smil'en, smirk'en Joe put on tonight. This was coached and purposeful and it was disgusting and demeaning! What a complete embarrassment it is to have this phony as VP. Cutting Ryan off , laughing out loud, smirking and gesturing like a 10 year old kid.I think this just underscores how shallow and sophomoric team Obama is and even worse how insulting to Americans watching!! Throw out integrity because sadly this administration has ZERO!! If someone talked to you this way you would simply walk away and consider the guy as a complete jerk. On substance I found it quite scary but not surprising that Biden claimed total ignorance about the Embassy attack being a terror attack and then lied about never being asked for more security. What a disgusting display from "side show Joe" and what an even more pathetic response from team Obama!! Can you believe these guys???

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Oct. 11, 2012 11:51 p.m.

    Good heavens. Romney talked over the moderator and bullied his way through the first debate and you guys couldn't praise him enough. Meanwhile, Biden was "rude and arrogant" for sounding beating Ryan.

    Way to stay consistent, guys.

  • SS MiddleofNowhere, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2012 12:31 a.m.

    @KJB1,

    I'll say it again on a different article, Biden didn't soundly beat anyone! According to EVERY source, it was as close as you can get to a draw! Your inferences are simply opinion.

    Also, check your spelling before you post, thanks!

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 1:09 a.m.

    Mr. Biden did a good job displaying the true colors of this administration.

    He was rude, arrogant, and condescending. Those things, plus the fact that he fibbs a lot are representative qualities of this administration.

    He confirmed what we already knew.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 5:23 a.m.

    To t702 10:50 p.m. Oct. 11, 2012

    Both were strong on issues but thanks to Jo for laughing while serious issues such as Iran, Libya, economy, healthcare, etc were discussed. No wonder why the Obama Administration had been a failure - they are a joke according to Jo! Too bad the strong showing of Mr. Jo will be forgotten when images of his childish behavior during the debate dominate the discussions for days to come.

    ---------------------

    The Vice President wasn't laughing at the issues. He was laughing at his opponent's mendacious and ridiculous attempts to spread malarky (lies) all over the debate. Joe Biden had the accurate facts and figures, and expressed them well; Ryan just had baloney. The Vice President had accurate facts and figures; Ryan just had malarky and fluff (he couldn't be direct or specific about anything). The Vice President could have wasted all his time calling Ryan out for his duplicity; instead he did it by laughing at Ryan's attempts to spread the stuff.

    Good job, Mr. Vice President.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 5:32 a.m.

    didn't watch much of the debate, but what I did see of Biden was typical of EVERY BO campaign ad I've seen - lie about Romney and don't say ANYTHING about what you will do to fix things. and they say Romney is light on details?

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 6:02 a.m.

    The clearest message of the evening is that these are desperate times for Obama/Biden.

  • Allen#2 WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 6:12 a.m.

    Both Romney and Ryan refused to give specifics how they would solve the problems of un-employment and reducing the deficit. Our country has suffered because of the tax cut for the rich and 2 unfunded wars. Ryan himself requested stimulus money for Wisconsin. Both refuse to admit that Romney's signature achievement while Governor was "Romneycare" for Massachusetts. I liked Biden's remark "Do you want us to start another war in the Mideast" when Ryan said that Obama is weak on defense.

    Based on watching both debates, I as a Republican and my wife as an Independent plan to vote for Barack Obama.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 6:19 a.m.

    If I had been debating lyin' Ryan I would have been far less polite then Biden was.

  • raybies Layton, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 7:00 a.m.

    Biden was creepy when he laughed about serious topics like our citizens being murdered and terrorism. Anytime topics got uncomfortable his tell was that he was all smiles and laughter.

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 7:03 a.m.

    Romney vs Biden debating style reaction by readers of DN: It's only wrong if you're not a republican.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 12, 2012 7:45 a.m.

    "The Vice President wasn't laughing at the issues. He was laughing at his opponent's mendacious and ridiculous attempts to spread malarky (lies) all over the debate." Couldn't have said it better..so I won't. It was like watching an adult (Biden) debate and eight year old (Ryan). Ryan was ridiculous and deserved to be mocked. Watchng him try and deliniate the difference between supporting the 2014 Afghan, withdrawl, and not supporting the withdrawl, watching him support the Iranian sanctions and cricticizing them while not being willing to say they wanted a war, watching him criticize the administration for listening to the intelligence community concerning Lybia yet at the same time not offering any evidence that's not what intelligence was saying (remember this is the same intelligence community that said there were weapons of mass destruction)etc. etc. was in fact laughable.

  • stevo123 slc, ut
    Oct. 12, 2012 7:57 a.m.

    I see where Sean Hannity called Biden a drunk, Hannity owes the people of the United States and the Veep an apology.iden won it, not that it matters much.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2012 7:59 a.m.

    On substance Biden won the debate, on Style it was a draw. Conservatives can take heart that in four years Ryan can run for President, but he won't be doing it as the Vice President.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 8:02 a.m.

    My friend biden failed to show leadership. Unless you consider interrupting, rolling your eyes, and making faces during a serious discussion leadership. If you do then the current regime is the regime for you.

    Congressman Paul Ryan was courteous allowed "my friend" biden to state his comments and made up facts. Unfortunately "my friend" biden didn't give Congressman Paul Ryan the same respect.

    People are trying to compare President Candidate Mitt Romney and regime dictator obama to "my friend" biden and Congressman Paul Ryan debate. The difference is this. Mitt asked for his turn from the moderator, something the moderator kept cutting Mitt off while giving barack all of time he needed and even helped clarify for our regime leader comments he made.

    For claiming Mitt took all of the time, barack spoke 4 minutes longer than Mitt. When the debate started barack opened, followed by Mitt, back to barack, back to Mitt, back to barack and then the moderator said lets move on. Mitt said he wanted to respond and it is his turn. Mitt was correct the moderator didn't control the time. He should have stopped barack & mitt when time ran out for them.Buthedidn't.

  • FDRfan Sugar City, ID
    Oct. 12, 2012 8:09 a.m.

    Joe Biden and the Samuel Jackson video give us a an insight into the dominant culture that is taking over in this country. It just keeps getting uglier and uglier. Style - not substance - is what this debate emphasized. It is time for decent family oriented Democrats to denounce their party and either leave it or change it.

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 8:17 a.m.

    Why bring up the abortion issue CNN? Both parties agree, a woman won't go to jail for one.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Oct. 12, 2012 8:27 a.m.

    Grow up, is my advice to the critics of Biden for smiling or making faces as some are putting it. Last week in Denver, Obama was criticized for looking away or scowling. Al Gore sighed too much in 2000, George H.W. Bush looked at his wristwatch in 1992, etc. Thank heaven there were no TV cameras at the Lincoln/Douglas debate to catch a yawn or a frown.

    Instead of sniping at Biden, David Gregory and Piers Morgan should criticize their own profession for insisting on using the split screen in telecast debates. That unavoidably makes both candidates simultaneous players at all times. In moviemaking, they call that stealing the scene.

  • Mister J SLC, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 8:36 a.m.

    re: patriot 11:30 p.m. Oct. 11

    Biden, for all his faults (perceived & actual) is entertaining. Ryan is wound a little too tight. Almost, makes Willard seem happy go lucky!?

    Its funny how much time and energy both parties spend trying to spend to emphasize their how distinct they are. There is some (but not much).

    The major factor is not so much what they believe but how they want to implement policy.

    re: KJB1 11:51 p.m. Oct. 11

    Exactly. But, this is Utah where Mitt's sainthood is in the bag.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 8:37 a.m.

    To FDRfan 8:09 a.m. Oct. 12, 2012

    Paul Ryan and the far right wing extremists give us a an insight into the dominant culture that is trying to take over in this country and impose itself on the country's people whether or not they want it. It just keeps getting uglier and uglier. Style - not substance - is what Ryan emphasized. It is time for decent freedom-loving Republicans to denounce their party and either leave it or change it.

  • Wyominguy Buffalo, WY
    Oct. 12, 2012 8:39 a.m.

    Ms. Raddatz, in a not so subtle way directed the conversation to the VP on many occasions while cutting off Rep. Ryans answers too often. The debate commission's effort to find an "invisible" moderator is a failure by using network "news stars". Instead they should have selected someone with no media affiliation; these "news" people just cannot leave their personal agendas at home! The VP's behavior was not unexpected, after all his foul mouth comments are a national joke and personally I think he sets a horrible example for the youth of the country. The media may think he newsworthy and enjoy his remarks but in my view he should not be a representative of our country.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 8:52 a.m.

    Nobody's mind was changed in Utah last night.

  • GZE SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 8:54 a.m.

    Mr. Romney set the low bar on the way the candidates are allowed to act in debate. He treated Jim Lehrer with no respect and acted as though he had never even seen a debate before; he certainly didn't follow the rules. Jim Lehrer let him get away with it.

    Both Biden and Ryan employed the tactice last night - interrupting each other, interrupting the moderator. At more than one point, Ryan didn't even allow her to complete asking the question. Both exhibited less than stellar behavior.

    It would be nice to see a debate where the participants actually acted like they were in a debate. We really need to call them something else.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 8:58 a.m.

    The debate would have been much more influential, at least on newsprint, if Ryan had clearly 'won'.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    Oct. 12, 2012 9:15 a.m.

    One question that was asked of Ryan, over and over, without an answer, was: When will Romney/Ryan get unemployment under 6 percent? Why won't they answer the question? Because they don't know. At least Biden was honest in saying he doesn't know. Ryan said everything under the sun, avoiding a direct answer to the question. Folks, Romney/Ryan do not know if or when they can bring unemployment down.

  • Clinton Draper, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 9:24 a.m.

    @no fit in SG Way to be objective! Biden said PLENTY of invalid information (or "lies," if you will), for instance, when he talked about Ryan putting two wars on our credit card, Biden voted for both wars as well.

    Or what about when he said they weren't told that the U.S. Consulate in Libya wanted more security before the deadly attack? Obama officials testified the day before yesterday that they indeed had.

    Or what about Biden claiming that he and Obama saved General Motors? That was done under Bush. Obama just continued what Bush started.

    Or what about Biden's claim that Romney said, "No, let Detroit go bankrupt?" Romney never said that. It was a title that somebody put on an opinion piece he wrote in 2008. What he said was that we shouldn't use taxpayer money to bail the company out, but rather use privately financed bankruptcy restructuring.

    I can go on and on. Ryan said some things that weren't correct and Biden said a lot of thing that weren't correct. If you're only going to point out one side, you're being intellectually dishonest.

  • That's A Good One Meridian, ID
    Oct. 12, 2012 9:24 a.m.

    For me it wasn't near as telling as the Romney/Obama debate. Biden's extensive experience from about 100 years in Congress should have given him a huge advantage but I think Ryan held his own just fine. Biden's endless laughing and interrupting was extremely annoying, regardless of why he continued to do it - talking points aside. I'm a little tired of the endless negativism though and would have appreciated a straight answer from both of them to that specific question. A little hard to point fingers at the other one though when you're both guilty of the offense!

    I didn't learn much from either one of them. I thought the moderator was much better than Jim Lerher last week. She re-took control whenever she needed to.

    The two biggest unanswered questions I came out of the night with were: 1)How many water refills did they have to sneak in under the table for Ryan, and 2) How in the world did he drink that much and not have to call time out for a bathroom break? I had to go 5 times just watching him, and I didn't drink a drop!

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 9:27 a.m.

    Ryan said,

    "The policy of a Romney administration is to oppose abortion with exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother."

    If life begins at conception, why would a life created by rape, incest, or an infant's life that threatened the life of the mother - why would these lives be less worthy of protection? Is it the child's fault it was conceived in a way the Republicans do not approve?

    And this position on abortion is NOT the position of the Catholic church!

    As you all know, this is the official position on abortion stated by the MORMON CHURCH.

    If Mitt Romney wants to alleviate concerns that he will NOT take his orders from the Mormon headquarters in Salt Lake City, adopting the Church's stand on abortion - verbatim - is NOT the way to do it.

  • That's A Good One Meridian, ID
    Oct. 12, 2012 9:29 a.m.

    Backstage following the debate Biden was heard to say "This is an *expletive* big deal."

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 12, 2012 9:34 a.m.

    "Style - not substance - is what this debate emphasized." What were you watching? We're leaving Afghnistan in 2014..we support that,except maybe not. I support my churchs position on abortion but I won't impose it on anyone else, so I support Roe v Wase..I would eliminate all abortions. I support the current sanctions on Iran..We also support the sanctions but think it shows weak leadership....so what would you do different....ah,ah,ah. I support the ACA and it extends Medicare for another ten years beyond it's current viability..I would do nothing about the current Medicare, but would change it in the future to a guaranteed coverage system supported by premium supports..what if the premium support doesn't cover the costs of premiums, and the senior can't physically go out and get coverage...ah,ah,ah,.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 10:00 a.m.

    That's A Good One said: Backstage following the debate Biden was heard to say "This is an *expletive* big deal."

    Ever heard Dick Cheney when he thought the mic was off? Makes biden look like an amateur "Vulgarian."

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 10:05 a.m.

    After seeing the debate with the tirades of Biden interrupting Paul Ryann almost once a minute was not professional, courteous or orderly. The VP must have had the orders from the President to be disruptive for Ryan, which is normal with his loud voice and snearing smile everytime Ryan attempted to talk.

    I believe Ryan is right that Biden didn't speak about their performance and just blamed everything on his inheritance from President Bush II. They would have had such a wonderful 4 years except for the budget and economy. He wanted to be able to spend us into delirium if he had the economy of Hillary's husband.

    Well, the one commentator I saw said it was the worst debate from a Vice President in 40 years and since the moderator was a good friend of the President, I guess there was no bias on her part. If Biden gets judged to have been second fiddle with Ryan, I guess their campaign will blame the moderator as they did with Lehrer last week.

    It was comforting to know that Biden believes everything he says. He mentioned that he really cares for people but his yearly donations are $300.

  • Deep Thoughts Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 10:07 a.m.

    Can't you just envision Uncle Joe dealing with foreign leaders? He'd either get too relaxed and say some embarrassingly racist statement or he'd laugh and smirk at them. Disaster either way.

  • Katiebugg Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 10:11 a.m.

    I have facebook friends from both parties and from all parts of the nation. The interesting thing I found last night is that all of my female friends who watched the debate found the Vice President to be very off-putting. Even those that will definitely vote for Obama made comments about how he was rude and arrogant and belittling. My male friends were split down party lines, but the women were consistently annoyed by him regardless of their political affiliations.

    I just thought that was interesting.

  • The Skeptical Chymist SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 10:16 a.m.

    Joe Biden nailed it! To those who say he was rude and condescending, go watch Mitt Romney's performance again. Romney repeatedly ran over his time limit, simply browbeating the ineffective Jim Lehrer into letting him speak. I found Romney's performance MUCH more obnoxious than anything Biden did.

  • ulvegaard Medical Lake, Washington
    Oct. 12, 2012 10:18 a.m.

    As I remember, the current President did give a time table for getting unemployment down to the magic mark. It never happened any where close to that time frame. And now, to criticize Ryan for not giving a specific date for getting unemployment below 6 percent? The fact of the matter is, the government can't create the jobs to reach that point. All they can actually do is stop keeping the legitimate job creation machine from reaching that point and they have certainly done all they could to keep real jobs from being created.

    We can take punches and jabs all we want at people for their opinions regarding the world, but that is just it - it is there opinion from their perspective and that on its own should have merit. No two people see things exactly the same and if they think Ryan was a joke or if they think Biden was rude - that is their perspective and that is what candidates must confront - that people across this nation all see it differently.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 10:24 a.m.

    Last night was a disgrace to see the number two most powerful elected official in the world to show that kind of diplomacy and relationship with his opponent. Biden showed the world his kind of nature to give his testimony about his religion and in the same breath show that he is totally behind killing innocent, unborn and perfect children. I don't know how he can go to bed at night.

    It is that kind of hardness that showed when he talked about their responsibility for protecting our border and embassy personnel. What a lack of character and integrity.

    He could not show or talk about anything this administration accomplished in four years that is a positive statement. If you don't move forward with policies, actions and accomplishments, we move backward as our nation isn't stagnant it is a moving force.

    I realized that this administration has moved to Hollywood in style and actions. The VP read from his script with no deviations or face the wrath of the famous producer of fiction for our people to see on the big screen, last night.

    Reaity is what our people need, no fiction. Our enemies won last night.

  • nick Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 10:28 a.m.

    Vice Presidential debates are almost always forgettable. However, this debate will go down in history as the "Great Smirk Debate." People will remember that Joe Biden was a jerk.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 10:47 a.m.

    "Joe Biden nailed it! To those who say he was rude and condescending, go watch Mitt Romney's performance again."

    Romney wasn't a spectacle of eye-rolling, hand gestures, snorts, "malarky", Cheshire cat giggles and inappropriate laughter: Biden was.

    There is absolutely no correlation between Biden and Romney - desperate sore losers simply want to taint Romney with their own dirt.

  • djk blue springs, MO
    Oct. 12, 2012 10:59 a.m.

    first off the commentator was rude and did not treat ryan with respect but yet she gave respect to biden. second biden was rude, childish, unkind, etc... the faces he pulled showed he does not really know what he is doing and could not really respond with maturity and knowledge. ryan was articulate, kind, intelligent. i hope the country can see that IF obama and biden are reelected (hoping not) that the country sees if obama is not alive or cannot finish biden will be the leader. i remember johnson becoming president when kennedy was murdered and our country suffered in so many ways. please people see what kind of man biden is NOT and what kind of man ryan IS.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 11:02 a.m.

    In a debate such as last night, the judges are you and me and the pundits.

    With the spinning that has gone on for 4-years and with the dismal performance of our nation, people can debate the debate and it all depends on what the definition of "is" is.

    Integrity is supposed to be the primary job of our President and his VP. We are supposed to trust that they are doing what we wanted in 4 years of Hope and Change.

    There is no way we are better, overall. Significant bills passed in Congress and signed by the President haven't happened from the budget on down. If a President can't show success, the people should not vote for that administration, again, just hoping that it will happen this time. We elect a President for 4-years, not 8-years. Thank goodness. To vote for a person again just to let them finish what they started without showing positive results would be a crime for those that only vote for a 4-year President.

    The Constitution doesn't promise 8-years to a person. Four years is enough when failure is imminent for failing ideas. Go USA.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    Oct. 12, 2012 11:04 a.m.

    Ulvegaard: Then why doesn't he just say he doesn't know? Just answer the question honestly. Instead, he spouts of rhetoric, ignoring the question.

  • fresnogirl Fresno, CA
    Oct. 12, 2012 11:06 a.m.

    Katiebugg:

    I had a very similar experience with my female friends. The men seem split, like you said, down party lines, but the women do NOT like Joe (or at least this latest version of Joe).

    I wonder if this will impact the female vote at all. I don't know if the VP debates have much effect on voting, but I do know that Obama lost 8 points here in California (of all places) and cut his lead from 22 points to 14 points. I'm not sure how much of that is due to the debate, the intensely high poverty levels here, or the crazy gas gouging that's been happening here. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 11:38 a.m.

    Reading this thread only confirms that most people already had their position set before the debate took place. Conservatives liked Paul Ryan and disliked Joe Biden.'s performance Liberals liked Joe Biden and disliked Paul Ryan's performance. It was strictly along partisan lines. So nothing new can be learned by people's opinions here.

    What is very evident is the amount of space dedicated to condeming Biden for his manner and attitude. However, those not familar with debate skills, one doesn't sit like a lump on a log and passively listen when the opponent says things which you believe to be false. It is one thing to debate an issue with facts, but something else when smoke gets blown and misinformation is introduced to confuse and manipulate.

    Nonetheless, the central point here is that all the opinions expressed were set in stone long before the debate happened. Those who did not like a particular candidate were more than ready to castigate that candidate once the debate had concluded. And this extends to how one is voting. A Romney supporter cannot acknowledge an Obama supporter's position and vice versa. This says a lot about the nation today!

  • Ali'ikai 'A'amakualenalena Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 11:41 a.m.

    What does it matter what the news stories say about the debates when people usually listen in order to get confirmation of their bias. Those people who prefer one candidate over the other will go in favoring that candidate and come out having their favortism confirmed. So it was with last night's debate. Those who loved Paul Ryan said he could do no wrong and their viewing only confirmed that in their mind. The same could be said about Joe Biden.

    However, those same people who wanted Ryan to "win" remained hostile to Biden and looked for ways to criticize him irrespective of his performance and/or knowledge. Half the Republican conclusion regarding the debate before the debate even occurred. The Republicans already decided what they were going to say in general about Joe Biden and what they were going to say about Paul Ryan. They only had to add the finishing touches which they did by emphasizing style and body language.

    It doesn't matter. Conservatives will continue to vilify Joe Biden because it is not in their interests to understand the dynamics of of the discussion.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 11:43 a.m.

    Joe Biden summed up the solution to our economic problems in one simple three-letter word... JOBS.

  • What Ever Salt Lake City,, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 11:59 a.m.

    I don't understand the comments posted that are so forgiving of Mr. Biden's behavior. To brush the laughing, the eye rolling, the smirks off to a reaction to Mr. Ryan's comments is ridiculous. Is this how he reacts to an opinion he disagrees with?! If he is in a meeting with other world leaders and they say something he disagrees with does he go into this same routine? We are all in serious trouble if this is acceptable behavior from someone with a title as important as Mr. Biden's. If this was a debate even on a high school level, that behavior would not be tolerated, but the Vice President of America gets a free pass because he was reacting to "Lyin Ryan". I don't understand the logic.

  • Bifftacular Spanish Fork, Ut
    Oct. 12, 2012 12:14 p.m.

    The Obama team is truly desperate. How else to explain Biden's performance? (And I mean performance in every sense of the word). I've been in business for 25 years, sat in countless meetings, presentations, and conversations, I've heard some stuff that I didn't agree with and even stuff that was a bit outlandish but I've NEVER seen someone treat another person's ideas or presentation the way Biden did - not even close. I can't believe that some debate professional actually coached Biden to be that way because I can almost guarantee his insulting smirking is going to turn off voters. And to think that guy is one heart beat away from being our president!! Scary.

  • Ying Fah Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 12:15 p.m.

    Did Paul Ryan really advocate starting a war with Iran? He may not have said it in so many words, but it certainly sounded like he wanted to expand American military power into both Syria and Iran.

    He said that America is perceived of as weak? By whom? You don't just bomb somebody to show them how tough you are. And he wants to stay in Afganistan beyond the established end date. Does he expect young men and young women to continue fighting after our allies are gone? For someone who did not serve when he could have, for a presidential candidate who did not serve when he was such a strong supporter of war, it is only typical that they want to send others to do the fighting where they know nothing of war and death.

    Republicans want to honor the troops when they go off to war, but where are they when these military veterans need help after they come home? Why did Republican's say we could not afford the jobs bill to help veterans wheh they say that we will do anything for our veterans?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 12:57 p.m.

    @JWB
    "Biden showed the world his kind of nature to give his testimony about his religion and in the same breath show that he is totally behind killing innocent, unborn and perfect children. "

    I don't see what's wrong with not wanting a Catholic version of Sharia law to rule the nation which is what Bidens' position essentially boils down to...

    @Counter Intelligence
    "desperate sore losers simply want to taint Romney with their own dirt."

    Sore losers want to focus more on smirks than the total substantive smackdown Biden laid, fact-checking Ryan on the spot. Regardless, as many have noted already, VP debates don't really move much in polling. Their primary use is with regards to motivating turnout in the base, and Biden accomplished that and then some. Democrats absolutely loved it and are re-energized.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 1:01 p.m.

    @What Ever
    "I don't understand the comments posted that are so forgiving of Mr. Biden's behavior. To brush the laughing, the eye rolling, the smirks off to a reaction to Mr. Ryan's comments is ridiculous. "

    I'll admit he went a bit overboard with it, but lies should be met with contempt and ridicule.

    @Bifftacular
    "I can't believe that some debate professional actually coached Biden to be that way because I can almost guarantee his insulting smirking is going to turn off voters. "

    A CNN poll of registered voters who viewed the debate had Ryan win the debate 48-44. A CBS poll of undecided viewers (the more important category of course) who viewed the debate had Biden winning 57-39.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 1:02 p.m.

    @Craig Clark:

    "Grow up, is my advice to the critics of Biden for smiling or making faces as some are putting it."

    Biden is the person who needs to grow up. Adults don't make faces while another is talking. Children do.

    "That unavoidably makes both candidates simultaneous players at all times."

    In the real world presidents and veeps are players all the time.

    "In movie making, they call that stealing the scene."

    The debate was not movie making. It was real life. I suppose Joe would have appreciated a 'retake' after his dismal and childish conduct. Ryan looked, acted, and sounded like the adult in the room.

    @Hutterite:

    "Nobody's mind was changed in Utah last night."

    Perhaps. But there were thousands and perhaps millions of people whose mind was changed around the country... from a Biden to a Ryan supporter.

    @xscribe:

    "When will Romney/Ryan get unemployment under 6 percent? Why won't they answer the question?"

    No politician has a crystal ball they can gaze into for such answers. What Ryan knows for sure is that you can't create jobs without investments and that taxes reduce the amount of investment capital available.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 1:06 p.m.

    Looks like the hate-filled leftists are out in droves today applauding Ol' Joe who showed himself to be disrespectful, rude, and anything but a likeable guy. And all of you claiming Ryan's lies ought to research a few things (and provide evidence of your claims).

    First, the State Department already discredited Ol' Joe regarding the attack on 9/11 in Libya.

    Second, Ol' Joe did vote for the two wars he claimed he voted against.

    Shall I go on?

    If you're on the government dole, dislike America, or want us to continue forward in the direction of national destruction (similar to Greece), I can understand your support for Obama. Otherwise, this election is quite clear.

  • Alfred Ogden, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 1:30 p.m.

    @A Scientist:

    "If life begins at conception, why would a life created by rape, incest, or an infant's life that threatened the life of the mother - why would these lives be less worthy of protection?"

    Unwanted pregnancies from rape and incest are forced. A woman shouldn't be required live with that constant, daily reminder of that horror and trauma all her life.

    "Is it the child's fault it was conceived in a way the Republicans do not approve?"

    What about the Democrats' position? Democrats want that all unborn should be subject to abortion at the whim of the mother... as a birth control procedure... at taxpayer expense... even if the infant is partially born (partial birth abortion).

    "If Mitt Romney wants to alleviate concerns that he will NOT take his orders from the Mormon headquarters in Salt Lake City, adopting the Church's stand on abortion - verbatim - is NOT the way to do it."

    Nice try... insisting that Mitt abandon his position on abortion simply because it aligns with his church's position... You must be a true-blue Democrat... laying traps for Mitt to be criticized regardless of which way he turns.

  • dumprake Washington, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 1:38 p.m.

    You can call it a "wash" if you want, but every time Biden opens his mouth, it gives another million votes to the Romney/Ryan ticket. Who won the debate is irrelevant, who looked like a buffoon does matter, and Biden won that one hands down. How America got stuck with Biden as VP is as shocking as how we elected a Marxist as president.

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 1:46 p.m.

    wrz Ogden, UT

    "@Hutterite:

    "Nobody's mind was changed in Utah last night."

    "Perhaps. But there were thousands and perhaps millions of people whose mind was changed around the country... from a Biden to a Ryan supporter."

    Can elephants fly? It this just more malarkey? " . . . thousands and perhaps millions" may also say the moon is made of green cheese.

    Laughter is a useful debate tactic. It helps to keep the Chicken Littles of the world in perspective. Sure, Paul Ryan is a serious man, a true believer, and firm in his commitment to his world view. Unfortunately, he's on the ticket with a man who doesn't share that view. For appearance sake, he has to play by the other guy's rules and adopt positions antithical to his own.

    Perhaps that is why he couldn't bring up his "personhood" rights claim for fertilized embryos. It might have generated more embarassment and increased the laughter quotient in the debate. Whichever way you slice it, from my view, Ryan was in water far over his head. But, then, it doesn't matter because conservatives will dismiss me along with the 47% they consider free-loading moochers.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 2:22 p.m.

    Now, the question for voters is this:

    If the president were to die in office, who would you want meeting with foreign leaders in the time of crisis?

    1) The guy who rolls his eyes and snorts every time he hears something he doesn't want to hear?

    2) A rational adult who listens and then counters with his own thoughts?

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 2:39 p.m.

    In the debate Mr. Biden lied about security in Libya, he was disrespectful and laughed when Ryan brought up serious issues and he was unprepared to discuss substantive issues. And to think he is a heart beat away from the presidency. Buffoonery is not a substitute for substance and Biden is without substance. It was disgraceful and Clint Eastwood was right.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Oct. 12, 2012 3:24 p.m.

    Several days ago, some in here were looking forward to seeing Ryan mop the floor with Joe Biden. That's not the tune being sung in here today. Ryan is a tough campaigner who gave as good as he took in the debate. I don't hear him whineing or crying foul today about anything that happened last night. Regardless of who you think won, his supporters can be proud of his showing against a very seasoned political debater.

  • sfcretdennis Nice, CA
    Oct. 12, 2012 3:39 p.m.

    The wing is trying to clam that J.B. mopped the floor over P.R. and yet the poll's show P.R. with 48% win to J.B. with 44% so as I see it the left can't read and count. (me I can't spell)

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Oct. 12, 2012 4:09 p.m.

    "The wing is trying to clam that J.B. mopped the floor over P.R. and yet the poll's show P.R. with 48% win to J.B. with 44% so as I see it the left can't read and count..."

    ===========

    I suspect that viewers who were already supporting Obama, thought Biden won. Likewise, the Romney supporters claim a win for Ryan. Overall, I thought is was a good debate.

  • What Ever Salt Lake City,, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 5:03 p.m.

    @atl134:
    "lies should be met with contempt and ridicule".

    Grown men that are the Vice President of the United States should show a lot more class in a public forum.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 5:37 p.m.

    its humorous that all the far right your commentaries on these threads think they have any idea what the "middle" thinks.

  • WHAT NOW? Saint George, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 7:12 p.m.

    If ryan won, why so many whining comments from ryan supporters?

  • Mr. Bean Ogden, UT
    Oct. 12, 2012 9:12 p.m.

    @Mad Hatter:

    "What is very evident is the amount of space dedicated to condemning Biden for his manner and attitude."

    Biden's ginning, laughing, and carrying on when his opponent had the floor is what is being criticized. He likely was told to be sure to make his presence known throughout the debate... which he translated into his inane grinning and giggling.

    "However, those not familiar with debate skills, one doesn't sit like a lump on a log and passively listen when the opponent says things which you believe to be false."

    Debaters are supposed to take turns expressing their views and addressing the points of the opponent. Trying to steal the scene when the opponent is speaking is not a debate... it's childish conduct.